The Danger of Ice on a Plane (Air Florida Flight 90) - DISASTER BREAKDOWN
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2024
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In January 1982, a Boeing 737 during take-off from Washington DC had succumbed to an abundance of ice on the plane and in the engines which had displayed deceptive engine readings. The plane crashed just seconds after leaving the runway where it came down into the frozen Potomac River.
Sources:
www.ntsb.gov/investigations/A...
edition.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/12....
web.archive.org/web/201506120...
www.aparchive.com/metadata/you...
www.washingtonpost.com/archiv...
• The moment Air Florida...
This video went out to my Patrons 48 hours before going public on CZcams. You can join my Patreon here: www.patreon.com/DisasterBreakdown
Congratulations on 10k!!! Way 2 GOOOO 👏 👏 👏 👏
@@angelcake2582 Thanks!
"why are you talking about this?
we have to leave something interesting on the cvr"
pilots discussing sex with air hostesses
Hiddeos comment . Grow up
the last lines in the recording “Larry, we are going down” “I know it” is horrific
That’s the way it goes
Long waits on the tarmac to take off always freaked me out in winter weather for just this reason. Luckily I’ve had multiple pilots go back for deicing, regardless of whether the passengers grumble or not. Better late than dead!
I've seen a lot of airports (for example in Scandinavia) where they have dedicated de-icing aprons near runways for extreme winter weather. Allowing planes to just dip in for a de-icing right before departure. Here in the UK though where snow is rather rare, I don't think I've ever seen such thing.
@@DisasterBreakdown We do have the same here in Switzerland. Planes being pushed back and start the engines and then go to the de-icing apron just before take off
@@DisasterBreakdown snow is rare in the UK? Its funny cause if u look at a map the UK is way up north from Chicago. Yet we get snow up to our waist every year...
My mother always says better late for this world than early for the next.
@DisasterBreakdown We have this in most decent-sized airports in the US in the northern half of the country, and some southern ones. And we always return to the gate if it's been a certain amount of time since de-icing.
The CVR recording is chilling, the flight crew knew it was going down. Most of these recordings are of flight crews keeping their composure and doing everything to save the plane during a time that most people would turn into a screaming bundle of panic. It's amazing.
and then there's that one western crash. Instant nightmares.
@@satelliteexile2089 which one if you dont mind me asking?
Agreed, western airlines 2605 is hard to listen to. The captain knew they weren't getting out of that.
@@jenniferp.5409 western airlines 2605
@@satelliteexile2089 Yeah, that’s easily the most disturbing I’ve ever heard. I can’t imagine what it feels like to know that disaster is inevitable.
I’ve seen entire rescue footage of this incident in Wonder - Critical Rescue here on CZcams. The last guy who did not survive gave all chances to those other 5 survivors cuz when it was his turn to be rescued, he’s already nowhere to be found. 😔 And the bridge was named after him due to his heroic actions which caused him his own life.. 😔🙏🏼
He was sadly also tangled in the wreckage and still strapped to his seat. The rescuers had no way of knowing this but he did and decided to keep passing the rope to the others who were free in the water to not waste time for them. It allowed enough time for the others to be saved and it was truly a selfless gesture.
What a beautiful soul. I hope he has found peace and happiness regardless where his essence resides now. I hope his family found comfort in his heroics. Just an incredibly selfless and wonderfully human action. God bless him.
The Lenny skutnik person is an absolute hero
Yes for sure. He just dove in and didn't think twice about it. He should receive a medal for the courage he displayed that day.
@@treyn8070 Absolutely. He single handedly saved that woman's life in a situation where very few would have done what he did.
He was invited to be a spectator at the State of the Union address by then President Reagan, the first "common man" to be honored this way. Subsequently, other invitees are referred to as 'Skutniks'.
Doesn't not make him a rapist though does it?
Unlike the rescuers who had civilians going in to rescue victims so they wouldn’t have to get wet.
30 minutes later, the DC Metro had its first fatal accident - a derailment on the Orange Line that killed 3 people.
I may be misremembering, but I think the brave helicopter crew were National Park Services. Not regular Police. They went above and beyond in their rescue efforts. True heroes.
I think the confusion lies in that they were US Park Police, but yeah they were definitely not regular police. Their selfless actions were the reason we have survivors at all.
Old thread I know but have to add that the helicopter crew were Vietnam vets and the pilot had already been decorated in the military for his flying. Just the people needed for that day.
I was 27 when this horrible tragedy occurred and was extensively covered by the news. This just reinforced my resolve to never fly from or to airports under these conditions. I'm from Austin, TX and have retired to Fla., and I will face hurricanes, flash floods, searing heat and cockroaches the size of small dogs rather than travel in weather like that. RIP Air Florida 90.
Jesus Christ, just hearing the boom at the end of the flight recording made my stomach drop to my knees.....
Sounds like a rectal prolapse. You may wanna get that checked out.
Rescue operations were further hampered because, on the same afternoon, a Washington Metro subway train had derailed and many emergency responders were called to that incident. Furthermore, the U.S. government had sent people home, thus clogging the roadways making the people sitting in traffic on the 14th Street Bridge sitting ducks and severely limiting the ability of first responders to reach the accident site on land.
It had to have been a mess that day. It happened 12 days before I was born.
I worked for Air Florida at the time and knew both pilots. I knew Roger from my time at Southwest, and his two sons would bot later fly for them. Another factor in the accident of the 737's propensity to pitch-up/roll-off during takeoff at low flap settings if there was any contamination of the wing's leading edges. This scenario was covered in a quarterly Boeing publication, but that info never attained widespread distribution to the flightcrew community as a whole.
14:34 I wish you had devoted just a bit more time to Mr. Williams. He repeatedly passed a life line that could have saved himself to save the others and was gone by the time the pilot came back to rescue him. Other than that, solid work, good script, good VA. 👍
Holy smokes this is the new Deep Impact & Armageddon with both you and Mentour Pilot releasing videos about this accident in the span of 18 hours.
never heard of the other channel, would you suggest it for fans of this channels style?
@@cherubcherub1698 Absolutely, he's a 737NG pilot and trainer who calmly explains different aspects of aviation, including accidents. He provides a lot of first hand experience and context. Both channels are great.
I love Mentour's videos, fantastic channel. I love how we must have been making our videos at pretty much the same time!
@@cherubcherub1698 mentours channel is really good but he does a lot of aviation content not just crashes/disasters.
Or Antz/Bug's Life.
Oh, something from the depths of my childhood memories sprung up. I once watched a rescue attempt on a frozen river on TV for a long time with a helicopter that seem to take a while, and then there's also the part where a bystander leaped into the frozen river to rescue a survivor. So it was a plane crash that caused them to be on that frozen river that day. Now I know the full story, so thank you. :)
Anthony, this is my second video viewing since subscribing, and now I am even more certain that you have the best presentation of facts and technical information of any aircraft channel. I am truly puzzled why, after 4 years on YT, you don't have 100K subs at least. I have a feeling that the word will get out and your numbers will soar shortly! Good luck...😊
Thank you so much for your kind comment :)
My guess for this channel's seemingly low subscriber count would be that it's catering to a niche market.
I don't know of any other airplane disaster channels to compare this channel to, so I can't say whether 32k subs is a lot or a little. But I do count myself among that 32k.
This youtube channel is awesome, i love the technical information that helps to describe what happened. Relevant information with relevant video clips and you have a voice that is made for this. So happy to see that more people become patreon supporters because you certainly deserve it!
Thank you for your kind comment.
This is the first air disaster that I remember being aware of as a child. I believe it was on my mind the first time I flew anywhere (several years after that), especially since National Airport was my final destination and it was winter. Fortunately, the return flight home a week later was uneventful.
I remember this well since my aunt lives in the DC area. Later I became a flight attendant but never have I been afraid of snow because our pilots always spent extra time on this when I flew.
"we're going down larry" :(
The boom at the end of the recording just made me feel physically sick. It's absolutely horrible.
‘I know’.
The pilots also thought it was a good idea to get up close behind a jet with rear-mounted engines thinking that would help with de-icing. This was also a practice strongly discouraged/illegal much like reverse thrust out of the gate with a plane not designed for that.
I don't understand how mixing ratios could change in the middle of de-icing, you'd think a batch large enough to de-ice the entire plane would gave been made the first time - so if a switch hitter was pulled in midplay he could just continue down the plane....
I remember my plane being de-iced at Sofia airport. The weather was so bad, there was so much snow that I couldn’t even tell where the sky ended and the tarmac began. The takeoff was okay but it was very turbulent for a good 5 minutes straight after. It was a scary one, and I fly nearly 10 times a year haha
I was living in a county surrounding DC at the time. This was horrifying and all of the news channels in the DC/Baltimore markets were covering it live nonstop into the night. I watched for hours. We all knew that area so well so, it's really strange when it hits that close to home.
RIP everyone who lost their lives that day.
Excellent video. Nice narration voice and explanations that a lay person like me can understand. Highlights: Relevant parts of written transcript, actual cockpit noises and what they are and the actual relevant voice recording. You’re the only channel I’ve seen that includes those. The others only have, if at all, the last two sentences the pilot and co-pilot said. You’ve won me over.
I cross the 14th st bridge nearly every day, seeing low airplanes overhead coming and going, hoping one doesn't crash. I had no idea that it has actually happened before as this was before I was even born. 😬
You would be much safer keeping your eyes on the road instead of watching the planes! 😁
I live in No. Va. I used to run regularly over the 14th St. bridge. To this day, it still gives me chills.
I live relatively close to DC, snowstorms in the area are no joke, my aunt refuses to book any trips on January or February for this reason
I’ve haven’t watched the video yet but I can already tell it will be great 😀
Yes
Helping Heroes Hatzidakis yup a liberal Biden lover lol
"we're goin' down Larry!" "I know!"
That cvr of their last words is super eerie to me, they were well aware they were going to die, I cant imagine what that must feel like.
I am a new pilot here in Japan. I find it difficult to think why a highly trained flight crew would not just push the throttles forward, at the point of stalling an aircraft or descending into terrain
I fail to see any concern for the engines should be taken. (Note I have not flown a turbine aircraft so do not know the operating specifics with those types of powerplants.
You're not wrong. I don't know if training was different in the early 80s but I've been flying jets for 19 years and in that time full thrust has always been an option of last resort in a stall or potential CFIT situation.
Great thorough breakdown
These videos are so well made and really interesting to watch 👍👍
This was your best yet wow flight channel can’t touch you great job
I’m supposed to be getting ready to ski, but watching this is more important!
Nobody asked.
@@alexcharles8541 you don’t have to be rude.
@@alexcharles8541 Nobody asked for you to say Nobody asked out of context smh
@@deadchannelxdlmfao1586 womp womp.
How was skiing
You are the best! A channel worth subscribing.
just the thing i need to make my Saturday night better
Im hearing you!
Glad to be a part of your Saturday night!
Ah yes, plane crashed always stimulate my Saturday nights
I love your channel keep up the good work 👍
2:23 KIAH is Houston, KIAD is Dulles
Excellent synopsis, as always 👌
Another beautiful video
Thank you
Shouldn’t deicing be the absolute last procedure to do on an airplane before taking off from this weather?
I first found this channel when CZcams recommeded One of you're videos last year. I think the first one was JAL 123. Anyway you're videos are very informative and entertaning. Keep doing what you're doing!
(Sorry if i misspelled anything, English is not my first language.
Thanks for your comment :)
@@DisasterBreakdown You're welcome.
Prior to Air Florida, Larry Wheaton was a Pilot for Air Sunshine that merged with Air Florida (Unsure of date) Kelly Duncan, also worked for Air Sunshine, as a Flight Attendant. Roger Pettit has two Sons. Both are pilots for Southwest. Of the five survivors, only three are living. Bert Hamilton died on April 05 2002 (I believe from a heart attack) Nikki Feltch died April 21 2002 from Cancer
I love your videos. Your scripts are great, you provide relevant visuals. Among all the channels that describe flight disasters, I like yours the best! Keep up the good work!
To everybody else: you need to subscribe to this channel!
Thank you, I am thrilled you enjoy my videos :)
hello my friend! i like your videos alot, keep it up man :)
Thanks, Glad you like them!
9:34 In fact, the reality that the pilots didn't turn their anti icing system on was so unacceptable that even when the Cockpit Voice Recording was analysed by FBI investigators, who said the word spoken was "Off", many still refused to accept it. It wasn't until 14 years later in 1996 when a CVR specialist called Mike McDermott used some fancy (at the time) computer software to settle the mystery once and for all. McDermott took an instance of the Captain saying "On", he then took an instance of him saying "Off", and finally he took the suspect word, which he called "Onff", and played them in sequence. And after playing all three words on a relentless loop for hours on end, McDermott was able to confirm with 100% certainty that the Captain really did say "Off" when the First Officer asked him about the anti icing system.
I remember seeing a TV news report about this accident as a teen back in the day
Hello: thank you for the video
Thanks for sharing. 😉👌🏼
I just noticed that the Dulles ICAO code was wrong
Washington Dulles is KIAD not KIAH, KIAH is Houston
I love the video. Around when i was born the comair crash haprnd can you make an video about that.
Accidents happen & humans make errors I get that, but when people die as a result of a TOTALLY preventable accident, it's even MORE sad...not to mention the Captain shouldn't have been permitted anywhere near an aircraft. R.I.P.
I remember this on the UK news when it happened, so very sad, very sad.
"Larry, we're going down Larry." alway gives me the chills.
my mother worked in the city (DC) at that time and she commuted over the 14th street bridge for work. If it hadn't have been for her utter hatred of traffic she would have likely been on the bride at the time of the crash, or close to it. Instead, of heading home at her usual time, she decided to work late in hopes of waiting out the traffic. hearing the recording with that knowledge makes it all the eerier.
You didn't say why they named a bridge after him. Poor guy was a hero.
You kinda answered your own question!
@@invisiblekid7374 i mean i wasnt asking a question. i know the story. however people will come here who dont know and will simply think they named it after him because he died not because he prioritized others being saved and gave his life for it.
she did
@@crystalrage No one would think that.
I will say. This crash happened one day after my official birthday and on the day of one of my friends. So it is an eerie crash to hear near my birthday.
2:23 Correction IAD (anyways love your content
What’s the piano piece playing at the start of the video?
I seen this one too!😊
They didn't switch the anti-ice on? JFC.
Pilots who have been suspended and failed inspections multiple times probably shouldn't be allowed to fly for reasons like these.
I'm going to fly this December... and winters can be brutal where I live... well seeing as they are brutal, we probably have better protections on our planes here ig.
It also report that the Pilots used the engine exhaust from a New York Air Dc-9 which had melt ice but had refrezze reducing lift even further
This might've been the third video I'd seen on this incident. With each, I learn something new. I didn't know the names of the survivors until I saw yours. I know at least two of the five have since passed (Bert Hamilton and Patricia Felch). This information is nearly 20 years old though, so who knows what's still accurate.
Can you do YAK 9633
Hi, do you take requests?
I would like see a video made on Nigerian Airways Flight 2120’s fire and crash.
Saw a documentary on this tragedy.
That was horrifying then, still is horrifying now - especially since the passengers and crew experiencing the smoke and blaze raging before the subsequent crash.
On that same topic of fiery crashes, how about the Saudia Flight 163 incident as well?
(Well, technically the jetliner didn't actually crash since it managed to land, but still, the fire onboard though and that inferno too.)
Thanks.
As a de-icer this is very frustrating to watch...
As a child I flew to Holland a lot to visit family.both parents immigrated.i was obsessed in love w airlines.i saw this at 11-12..it was surreal.flight is both gorgeous and w winning lottery type odds horrific..i want people to know flight is safer Than a bicycle ride any day week month or yr!
I’m scheduled to be performing IFR training in an hour, it can wait. This takes priority!!!
I like the song in the background at the begining. What's the name of it?
It is called "Heavy Footed Walk" by Franz Gordon
A small correction is recommended: Dulles is KIAD, not KIAH. KIAH is George Bush/Huston Int'l in Huston, TX. A lot was learned from this sad tragedy...
There is the extra contributing factor to this crash; AF90 was queuing behind another aircraft on the taxiway which it's exhaust melted the snow on the wings, but it then refroze on the leading edges and engine sensors before take off.
The accumulation of ice on the leading edges which anti-ice would have helped get rid of the build up help disrupt the airflow over the wing combined with the slow speed was fatal.
I wonder had the sensor not being covered, whether the aircraft would have been saved even with anti-ice off. I think they still would have struggled with take off.
This was not a main issue. The engine ant ice was the main issue and the wing ice is pure speculation.
It's crazy with all the tech we have and how advanced aviation has become that we haven't figured out how to.keep ice of of the plane indefinitely. Heating coils in the planes skin or extremely hydrophobic coating or exothermic chemical reactions that react with water and ice just to name a few ideas. I guess it would be too expensive or complicated ? Or maybe even dangerous ? Or all of the above ? Any idea guys ? I would love to hear your ideas ! :)
We’re going down Larry
What’s the music that starts at 6:21
It’s actually terrifying how such incompetent people were allowed to fly.
2:27 not KIAH, KIAD ;)
Better late than never dont ever rush things like this they are dangerous
Larry! Look what you did!
I love how you made a video on this crash because I believe my stepmom was in DC when this happened and my dad heard about it, so it means a lot to me that a plane crash that sort of involves two of my family members has been made into a video.
So here the recap(Take mostly from The Flight Channel video)
Link to his video: czcams.com/video/bqSovJIo7vk/video.html
TIME EVENTS
14:30: Start of the de-ice
Between 14:45 and 14:50: The de-ice progress must be resume
At 15:23, they begin a pushback, but the tug error mean they had to replace one. In the mean time, the ice had been froze the wing
Afterward, the pilot start to taxi but lot of plane also want to leave Florida. First officer request them to go back to de-ice but captain refuse as he believed the amount of exhaust from DC-9 will helped them to de-ice successfully and also if they return, the flight will be delay even more
Finally at 15:57, They ready to take off. The takeoff engine procedure ratio had a setting of 2.04.
At this point first officer realized something wasn't right. He realized the takeoff had take longer than usual.
Afterwards the stick shaker deployed after the plane took off and shortly after, they crash. Only five survived include one flight attendant
INVESTIGATION
They discovered that the engine power setting for the temperature and the airport altitude was 2.04 EPR but the accurate one is only 1.74 EPR. This explain why the take off take longer than usual as it does not provide enough power to take off
Also captain make mistake and instead of return to de-ice, they belief the DC-9 heat would melt the snow but instead it make situation worse. Captain also fail to listen to First Officer advice when they realized something wasn't right and that why he does not abort the take off
Shortly after this incident, the airlines bankrupt on July 1984
Howard Stern's first bit of notoriety/infamy was when he was at a DC station when this happened and called Air Florida to book a flight to the 14th Street bridge the next day.
Bababooey
Actually, Nikki Felch was the last person to be rescued alive.
The fact that the takeoff wasn’t aborted concerned me 😶
I’ve heard that if the pilots had shoved the engines to full power the plane might have climbed out safely is that possible or would shoving the throttles to full power have done nothing to help
Am I wrong or was there a TV movie if this in the 80s ? I seem to remember that and there were people alive in the plane underwater, I could have it mixed up...
You right it is on CZcams
Why would Captain not turn on anti ice ? Maybe he had a deathwish
"Damn it Wesley"
Shut up, Wesley.
Smh....incompetent pilots shouldnt be flying
Another mater of details. Sad.
8:15
wasnt reverse thrust for reversing banned
That last I heard, powering back from the gate isn't restricted by FAA Regs (I haven't flown in years, but at one of my former carriers, it was permitted so long there were wing walkers and all that jazz), but the suit-and-tie either strongly discourage using reverse thrust to push or they won't allow it (mostly because it burns fuel and fuel costs money).
We still do it with military planes. As far as civilians, I have no clue.
@@justinwallace390 C-17 and C-130 are designed for that to be an option. Not so with a 737 whose engines barely clear the ground.
I think the copilot should have been the pilot he knew something was wrong
Both Flight Recorders survived undamaged
They knew that something wasn’t right before they took off so why didn’t they abort the takeoff?? Mind you if the pitot tubes had been covered up, the de-icing done again just before takeoff and not using the reverse thruster then there wouldn’t have been any problem. I don’t know why they were flying in conditions like that anyway. It’s better to be delayed and alive in my opinion.
It doesn't matter where the pilots are from. A commercial pilot can wake up in Miami and fall asleep in Montana.
I see new video i watch new video
I thank you for your support :)
keep it parked in the garage until they're ready to roll
The airport should have cancelled the flights. It was so very sad that one of the women rescued lost her husband and 2 month-old infant son. What a horrible tragedy.
Should have never taken off
Could he simply of misheard off as on?
Not likely, both the captain and first officer were more used to taking off in warm weather conditions.