Unraveling Cru’s Troubling LGBTQ Curriculum | Ep 960
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- čas přidán 6. 07. 2024
- Today, we cover recent updates to Cru’s questionable gender and sexuality curriculum, which was recently called out by Rosaria Butterfield. Cru's curriculum, called "Compassionate & Faithful," offers staff members guidance on concepts like "same-sex attraction" and pronoun hospitality. The problem is that this "guidance" seems to be quite ambiguous - if not entirely misguided. We also break down some confusing points, such as the belief that Christians who struggle with same-sex attraction can identify as "gay Christians" and that same-sex temptations are not inherently disordered. We also explain the trap of compassion many of these organizations have fallen into. But there is hope, and it comes in the truth of the Gospel - that all can repent and allow themselves to be saved by the grace of God. We also cover Cru's history of questionable CRT curricula and explain why it is essential for believers to raise a respectful ruckus to stand up for biblically accurate ways to view each other.
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Timecodes:
00:00 Intro
00:34 Ep 959 & Debatable
02:40 Background on Cru & Rosaria Butterfield's comments
07:33 WORLD article
14:37 What's in the curriculum?
45:45 Same-sex attraction
59:13 Pronoun hospitality
01:02:17 Cru & CRT
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Relevant Episodes:
Ep 908 | Calling Out Cru’s LGBTQ Compromise • Rosaria Butterfield Ca...
Ep 14 | Holy Sexuality with Dr. Christopher Yuan podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
Ep 859 | Why You Can't Be a Gay Christian | Guest: Dr. Christopher Yuan
• Is “Gay Christian” An ...
Ep 796 | Former Lesbian Activist Calls “Soft” Christians to Repentance | Guest: Rosaria Butterfield
• Former Lesbian Activis...
Ep 782 | 'Pronoun Hospitality' Is Sin: Rosaria Butterfield’s Confession
• Rosaria Butterfield Pu...
Ep 927 | Is Tumblr Making Kids Trans? | Guest: Daisy Strongin (Part One)
• Is Tumblr Making Kids ...
Ep 928 | Losing ‘Gender Identity’ & Finding My Faith | Guest: Daisy Strongin (Part Two)
• ‘Trans Man’ to Woman o...
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Links:
WORLD: "Taking sides: A growing divide over the theology of sexual brokenness threatens to tear evangelical institutions apart" wng.org/articles/taking-sides...
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Unraveling Cru’s Troubling LGBTQ Curriculum | Ep 960
As a man who was formerly caught in homosexual sin, this has become especially burdensome to me. I repented at 20, after being deeply into this sin. The Lord led me to marriage, we have now been married almost 37 years, were blessed with 11 children and now have 27 grandchildren with four more on the way. I was part of the Exodus International movement and was introduced to the term "same sex attraction" to show us that we are not "gay". Then I started hearing about these "gay Christians". And they said they stuck with the "biblical view of sexuality, with marriage between only a man and a woman". I felt like that was intellectually dishonest. If you tell the general public, including those in the LGBTQ, and you tell them you are gay, they are going to assume you approve of same sex relatioinships. It's like a bait and switch to then tell them you think it's a sin. And in addition, why would anyone want to identify with their past sin? Or say they are part of the "LGBTQ community" when that community represents an abomination before the God of the Bible?
Recently, I have started using the phrase "same sex attracted" less and less. I feel like the ones who came up with SSA had good intentions. They wanted us to know for sure that WE were not gay. However, why not just call it what the Bible calls it? Sin.
The big debate now is whether sexual orientation can change. Preston Sprinkle laughs at that. I don't believe in sexual orientation. I like what Jackie Hill Perry said in response to an interviewer who asked her if orientation can change. She said it's sin. You repent of sin. Then you resist temptation. And I would add that as you resist temptation, the temptation can grow less and less. However, most people I know are still tempted years later. Satan knows where he had us bound before and would like to get us back to that.
However, I am alarmed at another trend that is going through the conservative church. And that is the idea that if you are even tempted, you are sinning. I heard Jarred Moore talk on this. He said that homosexual temptation is sinful in a way that heterosexual temptation is not. He reasoned that you can never fulfill homosexual desires in a godly way, but you can fulfill heterosexual desire. I think that is dodging a huge doctrinal point. You can NEVER fulfill sexual desire for a woman who is not you wife in a godly way. It will always be sin. And to try to justify it by saying it's "natural" is simply not scriptural. Jesus said if you even look at a woman to lust after her, you have committed adultery in your heart. There is even a portion of the Presbyterian church that is advocating relieving anyone of any ministerial duties if they are even tempted with homosexual sin. Never mind that research shows that a huge portion of ministers struggle with pornography. But those men's desires are "normal" and can be "fulfilled in a godly way". Just ask any man who was deeply entrenched in pornography if getting married and having a godly sexual outlet cured their pornography addiction.
I have spent years trying to tell other strugglers that our temptation is no different from anyone else's. Men who were involved with this sin often unconsciously give themselves a pass because they say that we are so different, we can never have a sexual relationship that fulfills. Now suddenly it seems like a big portion of the consistent church is saying I am wrong: this IS different and so different that if you are even tempted by it, you are disqualified from being a minister.
I totally agree it is a sinful desire. And we have to mortify those. But so is lusting after a woman who is not your wife. Even the OT says that we should not covet another man's wife.
So I just look to Jesus and His Holy Word. Yes, I sinned in the area of homosexualtiy. I confessed it, repented of it, and the blood of Jesus was enough to cleanse me of that and other sins. But I am still tempted sometimes, with this sin and other sins. But I resist it, I flee from youthful lusts. I continue to ask God to purify my desires. And I persevere.
I'm glad nobody told me 40 years ago that if i was ever tempted by this sin, I was still in sin. I'm glad that my wife did not believe that when she agreed to marry me with the full knowledge of my past sin. And I would say our 11 children and 27 grandchilldren are glad too.
Amazing testimony. Thank you for sharing. Many blessings to you and your prosperous family.
🙏💞🌍🙏
Wonderfully said! God Bless you!
Thank you for sharing your testimony and thereby educating us all. Blessings!
Everything you said is spot on!!!
My husband and I have given thousands of dollars to CRU over the last ten years. This money has supporter four foreign missionaries working with university students in their countries. This past year all of these missionaries became troubled with issues going on in the organization that they felt were in violation of their own Biblical beliefs. As a result they have all left CRU to support spreading the Gospel in another venue. As sponsors we were in total agreement with their decisions and continue to support them. We are very disappointed in CRU and will no longer be part of the organization. It is so sad to see such a once fine spiritually focused organization become influenced by worldly culture.
This is so sad. I knew a couple who worked with Cru. But I've lost touch with them since Covid, and I don't know if they are even still with them or if they agree with the direction Cru is going. It makes me sad.
Hi! Please do not take this as me telling anyone what to do, but have you ever considered putting your resources towards Christian schools/ Christian homeschool co-ops? My children go to a Christian school, and it is Very expensive. We are sacrificing to send them, but I wish that more churches/ those with resources who are Christians would please think about where you're donating, and look around you..the USA and the children here are in need. When your house is crumbling you don't give your resources to someone else you take care of your house. I hope that people will understand we need missionaries/ resources directed to the US at this point and Christian families need the church to take a stand against the radical government agendas and stand with those who are trying to to raise their kids to honor God. Thanks!
@bethanyrios8327 You make a very good point and I believe churches and individuals could do more. I know that Liberty University has prepared an on-line curriculum that can be implemented in homes and could be used in" vacant during the week" church classrooms. We support overseas missions in places where people have never heard the Gospel, but that doesn't mean we don't also support needs here in our own country. I applaud you for sacrificing for your children and standing up against our government that wants to do the job for you. I truly believe the Church has abdicated her responsibility to do more and that saddens me. Our power is great to have more influence on our culture, and too often, we allow it to influence us instead. Keep up the good fight. Your sacrifices will be rewarded. God bless you and your family.
Would you please share the other venue the missionaries are ministering with? I am so proud of them.
@@ginnicronin4916 Eurasia Partners Network. They are all now working to plant churches in their native countries.
Twenty years ago, my daughter lost faith in CRU in her first year of college. While they had many good programs, study groups and group outings, a large part of their teaching was abstinance until marriage. When my daughter found out that the male and female leaders, and several others in CRU, were sleeping with each other, she was disgusted and quit.
I am sorry to hear about that. In the late 90s I applied for Summer Project. One of the questions on the application was whether or not w/I the past year had sex outside of marriage or even were involved with heavy petting.
I am so disappointed to hear about this. 😢
@@marshahollings- The application also asked if one spoke in tongues. It's understandable if someone doesn't quite tell the whole truth in these applications. Perhaps some of the questions go too far and/or are none of the ministry's business?
@@machtnichtsseimann One of the rules was not to discuss tongues on project. 7 t9 yrs ago, I heard a story from a staff member that one of the projects had issues with people in same sex relationships.
Very sad to hear this about the leaders. I won't be supporting CRU any longer.
This is sad. My husband and I met through Campus Crusade for Christ and it's where we met our very best friends. We are so thankful for CCC (now Cru) and how it was a significant part of our formative years. Unfortunately, the organization went woke years ago and we no longer support people in its ministry.
Where is the new organization that will rise up for college students? One that will train disciples while remaining faithful to the God's word?
@@sirsaint88
How about The Navigators ministry?
Some staff may have gone “woke” a while ago, but they do not represent Cru’s actual position, and many of those are no longer on staff because Cru was not going to embrace CRT.
IF YOU SUPPORT AN INDIVIDUAL MISSIONARY. PLEASE CONTACT THEM FIRST WITH CHARITY AND GRACE BEFORE PULLING YOUR SUPPORT.
Individual missionaries/families lives are dependent on your financial and prayer support. Lead with relationship. Consider what is credible, what is true. Ask questions to understand, because any content can possibly misrepresent anothers intentions, and there are stories behind everything.
Pull your support if you're led, but PLEASE have a generous conversation with your individual missionary. This includes any missionary org or church.
Thank you! This is a much needed exhortation--many of the staff members of Cru new little about, and certainly had zero to do with the Campus Ministry's and leadership's long-term drift into both CRT and unbiblical + questionable views on sexuality and gender issues. (See my comments as of March 6, 2024 above about an early indication of drift on the latter.)
These unwitting, often disturbed, yet burrowed-in/committed staffers are not to blame. At least, as a supporter, please ask them their personal views then decide about changing things. Not every issue is one to quit over, either. Discernment seeks specifics, balance, and perspective. Leaving the org is a person by person matter of conscience.
As a 20 year Campus Crusade for Christ former staff member (many have returned to this moniker lately) married to a 25 year veteran staffer, I say this in principle and for the sake of many friends--brothers and sisters--we left behind at a historically orthodox and Spirit-led organization still being used mightily of God.
Thanks for your prayer for all of them, along with intercessions for other gospel orgs that have gone way-woke (e.g., Intervarsity).
Yes please😢
Thanks for this as a current Cru missionary. This podcast is very misleading. What’s coming out is a smear campaign bc if the mundells were fired over having biblical views, I (AIA/Cru staff) and every other staff will be fired. Something more going on. I think the mistake was using Preston sprinkle and not putting compassionate and faithful material out publicly. “Gay Christian” is discouraged actually.
I have a podcast beginning this Friday with Ted Shimer from the freedom fight where we discuss a wide range of sexual brokenness topics. I’m on the AIA LDHR sexual wholeness team and nothing said iin this pod is our position. Listen on Friday!
Establishing people's identity on the basis of their temptations is toxic.
It’s a Satanic deception. It’s appears innocent and even comforting, but it keeps The Soul stuck in Sin instead of identifying as Christ Follower only.
Some temptation and desire may never leave a person and it is their cross to bare.
For others desires may leave entirely and new desires planted.
We as a Nation have been swept up and distracted by this ideology and it takes the focus off Christ, and steals yet more souls.
Yes! So true!
Not based on temptations, but on lifestyle choices!
People can't control what they are sexually attracted to, only what they do with those attractions.
@@Bioboy590 you would be surprised what God can do.
I was a member of CRU my freshman year of college 16-17 years ago, and it was still called Campus Crusade for Christ. We were a smaller group of less than 10 members, but were all strong in their faith. They would be so disappointed in the organization today.
Please reach out to your supported missionary before pulling your support for a conversations about your concerns.
@@benjaminprice3219 Are you saying that what Allie Beth is saying about CRU is incorrect? Under what conditions should people continue to support a ministry that is Biblically compromised or has given in to pressure from the world to conform to the world?
My husband and I have given to Cru for many years, thank you for talking about this. We had no idea!
Please reach out to your supported missionary before pulling your support for a conversations about your concerns.
Yes yes. It is a very large organization and it would be important to have these discussions with your person you support and hear from them.
@@benjaminprice3219 Was going to say this!!
Cru never agree on LGBT
@@lauriehansel1207 CRU takes a 12%-13% cut from each dollar given to its staff. Your best bet is to simply give the money straight to the missionary and bypass the organization and deny CRU their "staff tax".
Alli, thank you for your faithful insight into how to stand firm with clarity‼️
I was involved with Campus Crusade in college. I’m so disappointed to hear this is the direction of this ministry now.
Please reach out to your supported missionary before pulling your support for a conversations about your concerns.
@@benjaminprice3219 I hate to ask this, but how can someone be confident that the missionary won't be dishonest due to organizational pressure?
@@AutumnAckerwhy you go with assumption? They never agree with LGBT
Thank you Allie, I've been aware of this issue for several months now and you share a lot of the exact same concerns I do, but I think you articulated it much better than I can. Very helpful podcast!
Have you ever had Beckett cook on your talk show? He’s a wonderful voice for Christianity and lgbt
She did. It was a wonderful episode
It was a good episode!
I love Beckett Cook!
Thank you SO SO much for speaking up against Side B! I think this issue will only get bigger with time and we need to be proactive!
I really hope people on both sides will understand that gay people and Christianity are just as incompatible as evolutionists and Christianity. Kudos to side B on acknowledging that conversion therapy is a scam, but they're ignoring that Christianity does not welcome gay people. Some spaces are not all inclusive and there's nothing that can be done about it 🤷
People who have been set free from homosexuality have rejoiced in it so, so much. We should want this for them if we love them.
⬆️⬆️.
This!! Yes! Speak the truth in love and pray for the gift of repentance.
Who are these people? Where are these handful that if you look at their Testimonies, have gone from a Worldly brokenness to a Spiritual one?
@@inYTbio_SiteLINKs2Verses_Bruv Many of them are on Delafe’s channel and other youtube channels
Some are on Delafe’s channel and many more on different youtube channels
@@MonicaAndLulu I probably know who they are. Been refuting the "ex-gay" testimony for years.
42:00 ABS, big fan and also Cru staff who teaches sexual wholeness. You say “We have to stand for clarity. We owe the world that. In a culture of chaos and confusion, the church must be a refuge of clarity and courage.”
Agreed! But unfortunately, I think you’re adding to the confusion bc you’re referencing the Butterfield talk and World article neither of which names sin affirming Cru staff.
I’m 42 minutes into this and you’ve exposited well the biblical position which I and everyone I know in Cru holds to, but then say cru says differently.
If all you’re saying about cru is true, I and thousands of others will be fired soon. If not, you owe your followers clarity. I’d be happy to offer some. Please understand Preston Sprinkler does not work for cru but yes cru did use his videos in Compassionate and Faithful.
We’re squashing sin and Satan’s strongholds over here and a misguided 4th degree report is going to crush a lot of individual missionary families support which means time away from ministry to re gain it. And that will be uphill with negative spotlight on Cru. (Before any trolls comment that the negative spotlight on Cru is deserved, you’ve missed my point. Allie is wrong in her reflections of Cru. )
I’m Cru staff as well and fully agree with you. It starts with our views of sin and what constitutes sin. If we could begin with reading Cru’s stance, understating that the presence of a disordered desire isn’t sin but dwelling on it, then there wouldn’t be no controversy here. I hope there can be a follow up with clarity being brought to this discussion and how there is agreement in views.
Jon Harris reported on this over 3 Yeats ago. You should interview him on your show.
I graduated from college in ‘22 and attended Cru events. My university’s Cru always had men’s and women’s small groups as separate. My senior year, they opened up one that wasn’t gender specific. I don’t think that’s inherently a bad thing, but I can’t help but feel like the motives weren’t biblical 😐
As for the race part, I can definitely attest to the fact that during black history month, we had very liberal people use bible verses to say that we as “the privileged class” have to stick up for the marginalized and explicitly stated the black population. 🙄
Luckily, not everyone in my university’s Cru was a lefty, which is why I stayed but if I could go back, idk if I’d stay with Cru. I feel like they somehow put evangelism over the gospel, which is a weird dilemma to have. A very weird idolization in my opinion 🫤
It comes down to people pleasing/fear of man over pleasing God/fear of the Lord.
"Hi, I'm a lust-christian." "Hi Im an adultery-christian." "Hi, I'm a gay-christian."
See how they all sound absurd when your sin is your true identity?
Same sex attraction isn’t necessarily a sin it’s how you deal with it.
@nutritionnut3975 the same can be said for the other two. People struggle with all of these but don't make them their identity. Why would someone identify themself with sin behavior instead of just saying Christian? Christ is the center, not the specific desire of the flesh that we are called to resist.
@@thomassandoval8025
Only one Gospel:
The Gospel of Reconciliation.
Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom
to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself.
We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness.
If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever.
Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods).
REPENT FALLEN ANGELS.
Beware these are Mormons (Blaze TV) that are preaching to you, they are heretics they don't follow Christian orthodoxy themselves, Glenn Beck is Mormon--he is a heretic and this is heresy!
Jesus Said, love is the truth, love is the biggest vord ever for jesus. 🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ l will stand with my son what ever hapends. So trust youre HART❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
All people are made of his imidge. Så the people WHO wrote this down in the bible was just people like you, butt the have ather problems in there livets that they not tellning you.
Gud is for you, not to them hwo Pilkington on you..
lett the furst people withoot siin throw the fort Stone.
Just be hwo you are, 🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪
From Sweden🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪
"Teach me Your way Lord that I may rely on Your Faithfulness.
Give me an undivided heart that I may Fear Your Name.
I will Praise You Lord my God with all my heart." Ps 86:11,12
My parents met through Campus Crusade over 45 years ago. My dad proposed to my mom in the chapel up on Campus Crusade property in Lake Arrowhead, CA. The ministry changed when Bill Bright died. They would be disgusted with this shift in ideology…
No cru never agree with lgbt
You are right on, it definitely changed when BB died.
You're a very good podcaster - prepared, clear, relevant topic, and have a solid commitment. Thank you.
I myself had issues with CRU doing things that were counter-gospel ten years ago, and it really was a big part of my college spiritual struggle that I think is common among spiritually and mentally vulnerable young adults. I encountered fellow students and leaders through the CRU organization that were sympathetic towards homosexual tendencies and were disturbingly focused on romantic relationships between CRU members, but also mandated a near quota system for "spreading the gospel" in the student union while simultaneously ignoring or condemning the struggles of its own members in dealing with sin and temptation. Instead of being encouraged to pursue God and supported in love while I was legitimately struggling with temptation, I was thoroughly disgusted by the ostracisation of struggling Christians while promoting other unbiblical notions by the CRU organization. It didn't stop me from still pursuing God, but it did lead me to stumbling A LOT along the way that might have been avoided had CRU been doing what the body of Christ is called to do.
For college students or parents of college-aged Christians, I would encourage finding a local church to be involved in rather than trying to fill all spiritual needs with these large organizations. While there are some good Christian campus organizations, I believe that by-and-large there is more biblical support from a church than there is from non-pastored organizations like CRU.
Boy the episode really struck a nerve with many based on the comments. You know the truth is hitting close to home when people so intensely defend their idols. Keep up the good work, Allie! I really liked the episode with Rosaria Butterfield-one of my favorites.
Ahhh..Allie..thank you ! You sure know how to articulate words and clearly get the message out right..🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻❤
Serving as a board member of a significant Christian Challenge Camp, we are very focused on not letting our “mission” drift by subtle or blatant cultural changes around us. We must never allow the sin around us become the sin within us. Thank you for your passionate yet gracious clarifying voice on so many important issues influencing the Kingdom today. Many, many of the thoughts I had as you addressed these issues, you verbally touched on each one before the end of the episode. I’m a many times listener, but first time responder. Thank you for being who you are and sharing truth in such a beautiful way!
Thank you Allie for keeping us informed
No. Its a lie. There is no hidden curriculum.
No. There is no hidden curriculum
I applause your bravery for talking about this issue and hope it helps people ❤
45:50 Start here and realize what Cru's actual stances are, then go back to the beginning. Unfortunately, much of the first 45 minutes states stances from Cru that are not true, in the slightest. The tweet mentioned that includes Cru not believing men should live as men is false and has been easily refuted many times now. The distinction between attraction and desire is what Cru is making, and I wish Allie would have started with Cru's statement and gone from there rather than what other people say Cru says.
This is exactly correct! What’s coming out is a smear campaign bc if the mundells were fired over having biblical views, I (AIA/Cru staff) and every other staff will be fired. Something more going on. I think the mistake was using Preston sprinkle and not putting compassionate and faithful material out publicly. “Gay Christian” is discouraged actually.
I was on staff with CCC (Cru) for a few decades, and believe the issues they are struggling with are related to lack of a biblical view of Genesis 1 and 2. Are the Scriptures sufficient for a clear doctrine of Creation, or do we need to adopt scientific theories to help us understand what God has clearly said? Cru is among a host of denominations and organizations which have forsaken the truths of Creation. If our doctrine of Creation is not firmly founded upon Genesis 1 and 2, yes, and that means 6-day creation, then what foundation do we have for the rest of Scripture? Where DO we begin to believe what God has said?
Exactly! If we can’t believe what the Bible says is the beginning of the sin and death problem then we have no basis to believe what it teaches about the resolution for the sin problem and Jesus return.
When I first became a reborn Christian I remember having major issues with other churches and organizations: but then I learned the wheat and tares parable. Letting the Husbandman do the gardening and me tending my own.
Please be slow to speak and quick to listen. Podcasts can be great, but also a quick way to demonize individuals and whole ministries for the sake of “standing for the truth”. As one who knows much more than this sincere gal about what Cru is wrestling with, I find her demeanor hurtful and simplistic. There are challenges as we seek to save the lost and when we don’t do things perfectly, there should be discussion, prayer, and believing the best. This is not it. I mean this sincerely but this is a hurtful ways to call out a ministry seeking with all sincerity to what is right and will repent if necessary to do so.
Amen
My college experience with CRU was that they placed heavy emphasis on recruiting freshman students and then expected you to move into a leadership position if you were a sophomore-senior. If you did not do that you were not worth anything to the organization. I participated in Bible studies and discipleship groups. After becoming close to my leaders/mentors for about 3 years, I learned one of them had been lying about having cancer for the past year +. This destroyed me as a young person. I reached out to a CRU staff member. They listened and after that there was silence. I have no respect for CRU. I do not view them as a godly organization and I believe they are after money and power and are all about the “numbers” rather than true Christianity.
Allie, God has really blessed you with a way with words and you have been and continue to be such a tremendous blessing to me. I pray He keep you focused and Holy and uncompromising. Your way with words (in many ways on many topics) has helped give me clarity and helped with how to discuss things that are unnecessarily (but sometimes intentionally) tangled and clouded. Grateful for you and your ministry, sister. ✨❤️🙏🏼
(17:34) _You no longer identify by your disordered passions. You no longer identify by your carnal desires. You are not a gay Christian. You are not a so-called tran Christian. You are a Christian if you have been saved by grace through faith and are someone who is taking up their cross on a daily basis. Through the power of the Holy Spirit we are resisting any disordered or sinful desires. We are given the grace, mercy, love to be able to do so, But we do not identify by that which the Lord calls disordered or wrong_
-Allie Beth Stuckey
Sad that Cru's going down this destructive path. Sounds like the wrong people have gotten into authority in the organization. Doesn't sound like the beliefs people I've known in the org would stand for.
I completely support almost all of what you shared about Cru.
But I think you are wrong on one thing. The item about attractions that are unacted 😅upon being sinful. I battlef same sex attractions, as a Christian, most of my life. I repented of homosexuality, including attractions, countless times. They didn't go away. And I know dozens of men I met through ministry with the same story. They repented repeatedly, but attractions didn't leave. These are people not having sex with anyone other than an opposite sex spouse, if married.
We/They had no ability to control having the attractions. OH yes, we had the ability and responsibility not to feed them. But even while being obedient in that respect, they remained.
I'm sorry, but I don't believe God holds us responsible for what we cannot change. To hold that over people is to lead them to even more despair than what they are already experiencing.
Getting back to what we agree on, I am absolutely with you about identifying with the LGBTQ labels. Absolutely not biblical.
I love almost all of what you are doing. But the church is crushing many of their same sex attracted brothers and sisters by asking them to change what they didn't ask for and have found it unattainable.
Jesus said if we want to follow him, we must pick up our cross and die to ourselves on a daily basis. He compared lust to adultery and if our eye causes us to sin then we'd be better off plucking it out. We can take it or leave it. He has given us that choice. What we can't do is change the Word of God to meet our needs. He doesn't need us. We need Him. He is the only one who can transform us. We cannot do it our self. So the real question is are we going to let him? Do we love Him enough to lay down our lives and surrender to him?
I appreciate your thoughtful comment. Here is my concern. Every sin should be mortified and desiring something we cannot have is sin. By taking on an identity based on sin, we are clinging to sin. Should we identify as a covetous Christian, a racist Christian, a fornicating Christian, or a hating Christian? No! Our identity is Christ and our sin proclivities are something to be mortified. If the Bible says "no homosexuals...will inherit the kingdom of God," it seems dangerous to keep that identity. If my husband cheated on me and repented, I certainly wouldn't want him to walk around saying he is an adulterer Christian.
Also, homosexuality as an identity is largely a modern phenomenon. While alternate activities occurred throughout time, it is our modern age of embracing evil that has attached a permanent identity on someone who has desires or participated in that activity. That is our new way of declaring that our desires are a permanent, acceptable state.
@@micheletisdale7467 I understand what you are saying. And completely agree we have to let Him do it. We can't. But I, and the many others like me I mentioned, were asking God to change us. We weren't trying to "meet our needs." God helped us stop sinning with other people , hallelujah . But we begged Him to also take away the attractions, we took up the cross every way we knew how, and HE DID NOT (emphasis not yelling at you).
Lovely expression thankyou for your story 😊
@@micheletisdale7467one more thing. Yes we take or leave things. But what if you try and it won't leave you?
God's blessings from Bay City Michigan
I am not that familiar with Cru. But I can say the further we remove ourselves or our teachings from Biblical truth the worse it will become. The old give them an inch maxim. I think we have given enough inches, perhaps too many.
Interesting episode. ❤
We've removed ourselves from the teaching of Biblical Truth and that is why you believe the way you do on Homosexuality.
What I'm curious about is how this information is being released. The website states a lot of things in agreement with God's word, while some aspects are confusing.
It would be nice if you would show us the actual Cru articles that you are talking about, and it looks like you are looking at them on your computer.
Thanks for explaining Side B because I didn’t fully understand it well Allie. Now I have a better idea when I hear what side A & B is.
Based Allie! Love it!❤
Read the Bible it’s the perfect word of God 📖♥️🕊✨
@@ashlibabbitt8609 if there were no contradictions, would you accept it as the word of God, believe it, and submit your life to God?
If not, it's not worth discussing.
When you trust in Christ start reading texts Bible the Holy Spirit will speak to you. You will know the truth and the truth wIll set you free. John 8: 31
I’m currently a student in Cru, have been for over a year, and haven’t seen or had to deal with any problems related to this before. Don’t lose faith people! There will never be a perfect organization to glorify God besides in the Kingdom of God.
It seems to me that before making accusations against an organization, you should interview representatives from that organization. Invite them to come on the show. So much of this podcast feels like accusation and innuendo without proof or representation.
Agreed! I’ve posted a couple times trying to direct people to Cru’s statement on their site, but I’ve not been able to find my comments. People, especially Allie, need to go to the source
I keep commenting but cannot find my comments when I come back. Please read the ministry stance on the site, and please talk with the staff you support to find out directly what the situation is.
It is important to distinguish between a temptation (to whatever sin) and the "acting upon it." These are blurred in the article and I assume in the training manuals as well.
Well said❤️🙏 thank you!
Cru never agree on lgbt
By virtue of Love for people we are obligated to share only the truth based on the whole word of God.
My father was part of CCC for 15 years, he helped establish many churches and baptized hundreds, sad to see this 😢
Any chance your lipstick in this episode is Adele? Or can you share what it is? Such a lovely color! 🩷
Thank you, Allie.
“As a man thinks in his heart, so is he” This CRU thinking is NOT thinking!!!
Beware these are Mormons (Blaze TV) that are preaching to you, they are heretics they don't follow Christian orthodoxy themselves, Glenn Beck is Mormon--he is a heretic and this is heresy !
I am related to Bill Bright through his brother Forest Bright who was married to my aunt. I can tell you for certain that Bill Bright, founder of Campus Crusade for Christ, would not be in favor of this. I can only imagine that he is turning over in his grave. He was always a great proponent of truth.
When I was trying out different campus ministries in college, Cru seemed the least focused on the Bible. Unfortunately this does not surprise me.
Is their a way to get a hold of this criculim? My church gives them money and I want to stop it.
Speak the word. How can they be saved if they do not hear it?
Blessings
@Allie you are responsible for stewarding your viewers. If you are helping people consider their donations, you should publically encourage them to have a conversation with their supported missionary. They can fully pull their support, but missionaries are fully dependent on churches and people giving the finances to LIVE. Don't ruin people's lives. Have a respectful conversation before fully deciding.
" fully dependent on churches and people giving the finances to LIVE" Not quite true...they are also dependent on the parent organization not to behave in a way the endangers or diminishes the financial support of its staff.
I appreciate your point but you are missing a massive cause of the problem you are trying to address.
This is a good program and timely. Cru is in our monthly stack of requests for financial aid. We are praying about who we sow into this helped us sadly to say.
Please reach out to your supported missionary before pulling your support for a conversations about your concerns.
Excellent
Hi Ally, my daughter went to GCU and unfortunately it didn’t have protocols in place that made it stand in good faith as a Christian college ie. non Christian and liberal teachers, partying and lots of worldly stuff that happens in college.
That was a very good point from Rom. 2:4: God's kindness leads to repentance; it doesn't lead to the affirm the sin in another. Excellent observation.
This is a tough issue and you have handled it well. I believe that it is not a sin to be tempted, but as soon as you entertain thoughts of acting on the temptation you have crossed the line.
So grateful it didn't work out for our family to serve with CRU as missionaries
Thank you for exposing this evil and deception. Just heard from Trevin Wax at a conference and he warned about his very topic. Sex and Man/woman are not secondary issues. If Cru compromises on this as they seem to be, they will compromise on the gospel.
Beware these are Mormons (Blaze TV) that are preaching to you, they are heretics they don't follow Christian orthodoxy themselves, Glenn Beck is Mormon--he is a heretic and this is heresy !
There’s a difference between experiencing a temptation and entertaining it. Remember y’all, Jesus was tempted, yes, but He never sinned. He didn’t entertain the temptations and neither should we.
When your temptation is your identity, as in “gay Christian” you in fact are not Christian. Your identity, if you have truly submitted to Christ’s headship, can only be Christ, not your sin.
You nailed it!
Beware these are Mormons (Blaze TV) that are preaching to you, they are heretics they don't follow Christian orthodoxy themselves, Glenn Beck is Mormon--he is a heretic and this is heresy!
Ally Beth, I encourage you to further look into focus on the family. They are okay with female pastors
That's what I was thinking. Pretty sure they had new leadership (after getting rid of Dr. James Dobson) and started teaching unbiblical things...
I have no idea what CRU is. You say it like I should have heard of it but I haven't. Can you explain what it is?
It’s a curriculum that’s come out for Campus Crusade for Christ…a Christian organization on college campuses. I haven’t listened to all of this yet but I’m assuming they’ve come out with something that isn’t biblical.
It’s a really popular college Christian club. Almost every university has a chapter. It’s like an evangelical youth group but for uni students.
Campus Crusade for Christ. As soon as they changed the name to please the culture, I knew they'd be moving away from Christ too.
@@Yesica1993What a pity. Never heard of them but it sounds like it could’ve been a great organization.
@@ashleynicole9423 I think they used to be. I was never involved with them, but I heard about them here & there.
Allie, you were on fire with the Holy Spirit this episode! So grateful you take the time to thoroughly research the topic and scriptures.
HELP!
I am trying to find the material to show my church leaders what CRU are teaching their staff. I have brought this to their attention but they just look on the CRU website which says what it should say and not what they actually teach. HELP!
As a current cru staff that was skeptical about the culture shift, especially within churches and western Christianity, I can say that this video is VERY MISLEADING AND TROUBLING. The website that states the organization's stances is EXACTLY how they gyudw us as staff. Don't jump on the hype/gossip/point the speck out train. Cru is amazing!
@@gbjeffrey ooo i appreciate this!!! Thank you 🥰🥰
CCC (Cru) has changed dramatically since I was in college (1998-2003). Towards the end of my time at college, my roommate who was an engineering graduate decided to go work for them. And I struggled with the requirements they had for those who work for them. The fundraising they were required really did bother me. And a few of the people I have known who went to work for Cru became more liberal and less Biblical. Right around the time they started calling themselves Cru insead of Campus Crusade for Christ. Funny how that happens. So, this is not surprising to me in the slightest.
The fund raising is a separate issue. It's a nonprofit, the money has to come from somewhere. Some decide not to hire separate fundraising staff
I know at least a few who have become less Biblical. One served 2 internships and served on staff for a period of time until 20 years ago now believe that gays are gifts to society. In addition this individual was adamantly against Florida's law on what is appropriate in public schools to teach elementary school regarding sexuality.
Okay, so if having the desire's of homosexuality is a sin then what does one do? I've had them all my life and thought it was because of childhood trauma, but I have a buddy that never had childhood trauma like I did and he turned out gay as well. I am not saying that it is you, but I feel like everyone tier levels sin and puts this one on top.
Guy Hammond has been one of the only christian males (THAT I'M AWARE OF) that not only addressed the sin, but gave strong biblical advice on how to combat it. Everyone else just seems to knock others for trying (I don't agree with how CRU is going about it btw).
All I'm saying is this is the most controversial topic in church today, and there are many struggling because there is no safe spaces. Just people and their pitch forks! Everyone wants to point out the problems, but gives no solution!
Same here. I can't speak to anyone in my circle about this. I just feel stuck..
Almost everything she says is incorrect in this episode. I've read through all the curriculum and she spins and twists so much of it. Sad to see her take so many shots at this org.
Examples please. You will have to back that surprising assertion up. Maybe you haven't read or heard enough?
I'm gonna go back through it and I'll post some details
Where is the link to this "leaked" content? Viewers can't actually look into this themselves without that source.
Beware these are Mormons (Blaze TV) that are preaching to you, they are heretics they don't follow Christian orthodoxy themselves, Glenn Beck is Mormon--he is a heretic and this is heresy!
Sad how to see where this broken world is heading 🙏🌍 scary really 😢
So grateful for our king that is bigger than all this brokeness ❤
When they stopped using the term Crusade it was over, going WOKE never ends well.
This is so disappointing to hear! I came forward to dedicate my life to Christ at a Bill Glass crusade in 1971. Although I had been in church since childhood it was not until Campus Crusade for Christ's 4 spiritual laws tract that I understood what Christ did for me. I later used the 4 Spiritual Laws to lead my children to Christ. I had no idea that they had gone "woke".
Preston Sprinkle in your show??? Love to hear.
The challenge that LGBTQ curriculum is going to face is the financial destruction of academic institutions from donors. People are starting to lose confidence in accreditation and are starting to see the value in not being compliant to such standards that violates the public values.
Is Focus on the Family a trustworthy source still? Why did they push out Dr. James Dobson?
I'm pretty sure they didn't like Dr. Dobson's interest and involvement in politics. He came to Tulsa to support our conservative senator Tom Coburn and said very specifically that he was there as private citizen James Dobson, not there repping Focus on the family. I guess that didn't appease his board, who pushed him out and then made it look like a nice send-off for his retirement.
I don’t understand the whole identity debate. Because when we accept Christ, we have a new identity. We become a new man. We die to self. We take up our cross. Old man has died, we become new.
We are spiritually born again, no longer dead in sin but alive in Christ. We indeed are new creation in that regard.
However, our sex doesn't change, and God's view towards sexuality is the same. Marriage is still only between a man and women. Jesus reiterated Genesis that God made man and female, and that it is the marriage between man and woman is what was ordained by God.
All sex outside of marriage is still wrong. Paul states that the single person's body belongs to Christ, while the married person's body belongs to their spouse.
Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to go and sin no more.
In one of Paul's letters, Paul admonishes a church for not dealing with a man sleeping with his father's wife.
Sexual immorality is called sin throughout the new testament, from Romans through Revelation.
Blessings
Campus crusade for Christ, where do they get "Cru" from that?
From "crusade," without actually using the word "crusade" because it is considered offensive by many people.
@@nicolepettit5120Christ is also offensive to some people.
Please cover the Chi Alpha Christian Fellowship (College branch of Assemblies of God) scandal.
Here is my edited video testimony of why I left Cru a few years back (I was threatened by Cru to remove the content I shared in my initial video):
czcams.com/video/tbRqyxqqhoM/video.html
All "organizations" go through a cycle, peaking out and then declining over time. I first came in contact with CCC in 1961 and later spent a summer at the newly acquired facility at Arrowhead Springs, California in 1969 where I met Bill Bright and Hal Lindsey. The U.S. is undergoing a definite decline as the Tribulation approaches.
Beware these are Mormons that are preaching to you, they are heretics they don't follow Christian orthodoxy themselves, Glenn Beck is Mormon--he is a heretic and this is heresy!
Not agreeing or disagreeing with this video here, but just "squaring the circle": "The desire is okay, but the manifestation of that desire is not." This is the difference between being tempted and committing sin. If being tempted by satan counts as sin, then we are all sinners all the time, because satan is constantly trying to lead us into destruction. To put it another way, Ephesians 4:26 says, in part, "In your anger, do not sin." So being angry is not yet sinful, but the things we do out of anger very well, and often are, sinful.
This breaks my heart. CCC was so instrumental in my growth in my Faith. Bill Bright is rolling in hishis grave.
My husband says the same. Campus Crusade definitely taught him solid scriptural Christianity in the late 60’s.
never use a person's pronouns. If we agree that a male is "she" then we cannot say that this male cannot go into a woman's bathroom. This is basic safeguarding.
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
ALL OF A SUDDEN! NOT ALL THE SUDDEN. It doesn't even make sense when you sat it wrong. 😂😂😂😂
I feel guilt over my sins. It’s a sign that I know what I desire is wrong and displeasing to God.
The same should be said for the sin of homosexuality.
Thank you for the reminder that we should no longer identify with our sin once we are in Christ 💛💛💛
Yup these are Mormons that are preaching to you, they are heretics they don't follow Christian orthodoxy themselves, Glenn Beck is Mormon--he is a heretic and this is heresy!
“Winsomeness” 😂. Compromise with the world. 😢
mating becomes a unnavigable environment if there is no clear definition to what is a man and a woman.
A lot of people are leaving CRU over issues like this... to those people, I would say... stop. Stop leaving. Stay and fight. One of the reasons we keep losing institutions to the atheistic left is that we keep giving them ground. We keep believing that leaving is the moral high ground and the best form of protest... but it's not. You leave, and they fill the void with someone who thinks like them, until, a few years down the line, the atheistic left has a new "Christian" Institution in their control to spread their message. We must stop ceding this ground, or we will find ourselves with no ground left to which we can flee, surrounded by enemies of Christ on all sides.
My bigger beef right now with Preston is having Tim Whitaker from the New Evangelicals speak at Exiles in Babylon conference. Tim is on a warpath for Allie, and is very lgbt affirming. Weird twist to the conference.
John 15:18 - expect to be hated and opposed. Don't seek it, but expect it.
The problem I am seeing with the Church today is they are afraid to take attendance hits in the post-Christian era. Accept it. Don't compromise.
Why don't you ask Preston Sprinkle to come on your program and explain how Rosaria has misrepresented his position?
Beware these are Mormons (Blaze TV) that are preaching to you, they are heretics they don't follow Christian orthodoxy themselves, Glenn Beck is Mormon--he is a heretic and this is heresy !
Interesting take on this topic but I really would be interested to hear your thoughts on how to bake a good sourdough bread. 🤣 🤦🍞
Praying for the woke CRU to repent and metanoia… to stop stumbling people in their faith walk.
Beware these are Mormons (Blaze TV) that are preaching to you, they are heretics they don't follow Christian orthodoxy themselves, Glenn Beck is Mormon--he is a heretic and this is heresy!