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Holden 202 Restoration with Rotec TBI fuel System
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2021
- I bought this old 6 cylinder Holden engine at a scrap metal price, for the purposes of testing our TBI throttle bodies on. I never intended to take the build this far.
Dear Customer
Continuing on from our phone conversation please see attached some info that may be of interest to you.
I can offer you two x MkII TBI-34 and will machine them both so they have the Stromberg two bolt pattern (same as in my 202 videos).
These can be mounted sideways as the TBI is not attitude sensitive.
Note:
1. You do not have to be fiddling with the mixture all the time, in fact you can just set it a nice spot and leave it. The metering regulator takes care of the rest.
2. Some folks think this unit cannot be used through the rev range or "on / off" like in a car because aircraft are running at a constant speed? This is entirely incorrect as the TBI does not know what sort of engine its bolted to and responds better than any carb I've ever used. The tiny holes offer an almost perfect progression of fuel delivery better than any one single jet or tapered needle.
3. Aerobatic aircraft are generally very high performance engines and they are constantly on and off the throttle. Our TBI unit is used in many competition aerobatic aircraft.
4. Fuel can be any petrol. Avgas or Unleaded no issues. Ethanol best kept below 15 %.
I can do you two MkII TBI-34 with two bolt Stromberg pattern for just AUD $xxx (sales@rotecaerosport.com) all up with FREE shipping in Oz. I'm looking to get these on more cars and bikes to show others what can be done. These TBI would be a race tuners wet dream as its like having a pocket full of 1,000 jets that you can install and test in an instant while on the fly.
Two of these units will look sharp on your 179.
Please see my PayPal money request for the two units.
6 would look even better on an XU1 engine 🔥👍
Best Holden motor back then I rebuilt on in may garage less then a days work replaced the head with yellow Terra head super fast with a 3speed box long live the kingswoods
Fast 😂 the holdens were anything but fast mate
Hi just reminiscing from my old torana days and found your 202 rebuild very impressed with your assembling and your need for perfection which isn't seen to often these day's
Very kind of you, thanks.
Mmmm ... graphite rope rear mains seal ... that took me back to my apprenticeship days ... always install dry with a little oil in the seal groove ... then using the wooden handle of your favourite fitters hammer you massage the seal well down into its groove ... then with a very sharp blade trim the rope to be about 1 or 2 mm proud above the block/main brg cap surface and then fit off .. the idea is that when the engine runs oil will make the rope swell and seal the rear main brg. to suit ... the 'knurl' on the crank is as MoogZ (below) suggests to drive excess oil back into the crankcase/sump ... very common system on 'ye olde motors' ....
I was taught that too.
If it was to tight that the crank would not spin. My boss said not to worry because after running for a bit she would be right
Some engines had a disk just before the seal called a slinger which would throw excess oil away from the seal,don't see them in modern cars.
Ahh - the good old days. 202 with 149 head large valves, triple 1 3/4" SUs robbed out of junk Austin 1800s with needles imported from UK, Wade cam, weighted distributor, allow cam gear, lightened flywheel all bolted into my EK. Quicker to 60mph than a 289 GT, after 60 the GT took off :) Tore a few gearboxes, tailshafts, and diffs to shreds. A set of 3 of these TBI bodies would have been nuts.
A 166 Waggot was the absolute best all around cam grind for the ol' red motor.
The problem with the old SU's, was they had a hard time keeping the throttle wide open ??
You would need to pump the peddle to keep the throttle open ??
The other hassle with SU's was balancing the 3 separate Carburetors ????
Best carburetors, IF you could afford them ??
Triple Side Draft Webers.
OR.
These Throttle Bodies .
@@weldmachine let's face it SU's are just to slow to open.
@@gogogeedusyeah but the sound…….
G'day mate, no technical comments or questions just wanted to say love the ice-cream container for storing bits and pieces. Bet you did that in the old shed at home growing up.
Like a swiss watch noice! sounds great takes me back to my youth thats for sure, although my first engine was in a HT with a 186 in it great car $700.00 in 1976 (rusted bottoms on the front guards) those were the days!
Brings back memories. I redid my 186 back in ‘75. It was still going strong 25 years later!!
Just a couple of points for interest. I’m not sure about the 202, but the earlier red motors really were red rather than orange.
Also the red motor was introduced with the EH in 1963. All the engines before that were grey. I can’t remember all the differences but the red was a big improvement.
Thanks for a great vid.
It's funny how motors can bring back so many memories.
Bad memories for some people 😂
Yes you're right about the Red Motors being a Big improvement.
The poor old Grey Motors were not much, almost Vintage in away.
It's sort of ironic how Holden reintroduced the 138 back into the
LC Torana,s ??
At least they were a Red Motor, but that was the only good thing about them, LOL.
Most took them out and changed to either the 186 or 202 with the ever reliable Aussie 4 Speed.
Yes, they were more Red than Orange in the early days of Red Motors.
Not sure why the Orange colour was used in later models.
But the Die Hard Holden Man never cared to much about it 👍
Grey Motors had 3 bearing mains, red motors had 5 bearing mains.
Great to see the 202 getting some tlc
The "knurl" on the crank is angled to drive the oil back into the crankcase.
Never heard a red motor so smooth and quiet. Nice indeed.
they all ran smooth!
That TBI is an awesome bit of kit. Looks a lot better than the alternative.
These engines are very similar if not the same as the 3294cc straight-six ohv engines used in the British Vauxhall Cresta (1965 until 1972) and the Vauxhall FD series Ventora (1967 to 1972) and the FE series Ventora (1972 to 1978). The layout seems identical, but it was never a popular car and no upgrades were ever offered for it as far as I remember. I heard the engine was derived from the smaller Bedford trucks.
But what Oz has done with these is amazing. 🙂
They made the 202 as a low compression motor also. Designed for use as a stationary engine ( compressors/generators) that ran on standard fuel. Was extremely successful in this application and a much sought after engine.
Do you remember what Stationary Engines they were used for ?
I remember the Ford Motors being used for the older Chain Drive Concrete Trucks.
The only place you find them now is in old quarries or tanneries for treating the cattle hides.
@@weldmachine. The Holdens were also used to rotate the mixer barrels on concrete delivery trucks. Around about the time of the making of Mad Max III, a motion picture special effects technician, Bob Bosisto had two Holden engines on a trailer driving ducted fans as a wind machine.
I built a blue motor with a yella terra turbo head on it using a black motor efi manifold and delco efi off a vn v6 using the guts out of a ford ea dizzy to run the ignition system . It also had a vortech centrifical supercharger running methanol for 374 bhp at the wheels behind a 2 speed power glide in an 62 ek panelvan . The old 202 didnt know it could do what it was doing . Standard crank rods but forged pistons and arp studs and bolts throughout . It was also drysumped because we kept beating the oil pressure with revs and throw rods out of it . It used to rev to 7500 all day after that . We could have done a engine transplant from another make but i like doing things the hard way . Good old holden engines . Oh it was also grout filled and block oringed .
Cool video… love the “shade tree engineering” assembly tools!
Wonder how two or three of these would go on the right manifold, with a Yella Terra head, solid cam and some headers…
Awwww, lookit the cute little crank and baby flat lobes on the camshaft,..... How would that TBI setup go on something larger, like a Slant Six?
Special service tool for installing rope seal, basically it's a semi circle lump of steel with a handle that you tap with a hammer to preform the seal before inserting the crank.
Red motor first appeared in 1963 with EH, last version left the factory in 1985 in VK (black motor)
The last “red” motor was in the VC though yeah?
@@claytonpunter6555 vb red vc blue
@@claytonpunter6555 And then went to the blue motor, and finally the black version.
I remember taking a VK to Nissan Australia at Eagle Farm to have a nissan 6 fitted for trial, it came from GMH Acacia Ridge.
that sounds smooth as silk
She runs like a top. It’s my first time on Red motor. I loved it
Mate ,a trip down memory lane, straight 6, beautiful,cant help myself ,i still drive a Lexus gs 300, smooth as silk,thanks for the upload.
Looking for the running in sign. Just keep it around 35 mph for the first week. Nice job.
Nice job , I always tried to source 1971-73 engine for the neoprene seal , they make more power less drag on crank .
the rope seal didn't drag after the engine was run in, that only when they were new.
Runs really smooth.
Rev it witless while stiff and cold.
I could picture the metal shavings in my mind.
and all that fuel washing the oil away from the bores.
Check out the temp guage on the dash. It had been running a while before he started it in this video.
Done a few of those motors myself years ago. Interesting how the TBI has a slide type butterfly.
I had a black 202 in the 90s threw a 350 holley on it size 92 jets,extractors 2.25 inch exhaust,Tq20 cam,3 grand stally.Went ok did bit over 5000rpm in 1st.
Zip tie ring compressor, great idea
So many wonderful memories.
Alternator brackets are notorious for breaking as well when your up around 6500-7500
Make sure grout atleast the bottom 1/4 there weak around jackets on starter motor side, I was making 280hp in my torana , and it cracked the block bottom of the gallery.
Very cool retro 6!
Owned a very stout 300hp version of one of these 202s back in the day, it was very different to this little guy, fun motor to sit behind however.
The colour you're chasing is Holden Rocket red. The colour you have here is closer to Chevy orange, but it's a common colour that reconditioners paint them. As for the Holden Red, it began its production run with the EH in 1964, in 179 sized, through to the 3.3 litre in the VK in 1985. Technically was the Blue engine from 1980-1984, and the Black from 1984-1985. Main difference between the Red and the latter engines was a 12 port head, electronic ignition, and the Black had optional fuel injection
Same motor as the Chef 216 and 235 6 cylinder only reduced in size. Love to put that on the dyne. You sure do pretty work.
It was based on the Chevy blue flame engine I believe.
Installing your Rotec alternator on my Jabiru engine transformed the operating experience of my Skystar Pulsar III.
I wanted to upgrade the Bing carb to this TBI but it seemed unlikely its form factor could be accommodated by my engine mount. It also seemed likely, the throttle, mixture and primer controls orientations were going to be very difficult, if not impossible to facilitate. I'll keep watching for future evolutions of this fuel solution.
"mixture and primer controls orientations were going to be very difficult, if not impossible to facilitate" Hi Dennis thanks for your comment, difficult is relative and subjective, but impossible I'm sorry I just cant accept. Take a look here at this Jabiru set up czcams.com/video/yja-gG78Zuc/video.html
Hi these look impressive!
Could they be used with forced induction eg turbo setup on Holden 6?
Holden's classic red clatter box engine.
if it was a clatter box,your head is a clatter box.
Red motors were up to around 77 78 ish . Orange 202 9 port started around 79 in vb commodore. Best ones were in my opinion were the black motor 3 3 12 port with the factory mild stage or high lift camshaft with early 3.3 blue motor 12 port head combination with a phillipino version m21 gearbox and 3.37 to 1 diff.
Hey mate, love the video! Just picked up a '75 HJ Kingswood and I plan on restoring the 202. I love the way you've done yours and I was just wondering if the pcv block off caps were made by you or if you bought them somewhere? Thanks mate.
They are just 1” rubber plugs from Bursons auto parts :)
Very reliable engine's those red engines. Parts of plentiful and cheap one of my favourite engine's 👍😃. Nice build
Have you made these Throttle Bodies for a particular market ?
Or, is it pretty much open to any buyers looking for a fuel supply alternative ?
Seems if you use a Holden Red Motor for your test engine the market is fairly open for the end user.
Were you ever based near the bottom of Moorabbin Airport ?
I remember going to see a couple brothers years ago who were looking to employ someone to help build the the Radial Engines.
I only ask because you mention you also built the Radial Engines.
Not sure IF you are the same person or there is someone else who builds these engines as well ??
The good old red 6. They Go for ever
Pretty much just a flat slide carb. Nice build 👌
I remember the 138 "grey" motor used in the really old Holdens. Not a lot of power, just enough to get around.
it was the 50's and 60's, there wasn't much in Au that was a lot faster.
@@gogogeedus. Valiants were waaaaayyyy faster. 225 ci tower of power 🤣🤣🤣👍
So has anyone actually used one on a street car yet?
I'm up for either a new carb or a Holley Sniper efi conversion, real soon. What price can you do for one to suit a HJ Holden 6cyl single stromberg manifold? What else do I need to bolt it on and go? What do I do about throttle cable connecting etc?
Yes mate they certainly have, we’ve sold quite a few for street and track. Give the shop a call I’ll talk you through it.
03 5977 3805 ask for Tony or Paul (me)
The old 20Terrific
jeez .. early 60s to mid 80s.. EH to VK
“let’s slap it”
yanks would never say that lol
made the video!
Great Video
0:35 Try 1963-64 (the Red Motor, the 202 Red motor began in the HQ). These motors love high octane fuel, avgas is ideal plus its leaded.
Red motors all had PCV system. There was a special tool for installing the graphite impregnated rear main oil seal
Yer it was called a large socket and a mallet!
Have you seen how how both Honda, with their CX series of bikes, & Moto Guzzi, with its Daytona, got 4 valve per cylinder heads working from 2 parallel pushrods per head? Plus without the heads being really wide either. Just trying to motivate you to design multivalve pushrod heads for the Jabiru & Volkswagen too (I own a Type 3). Mind you to stop the inlet valves on each side getting in each others way, as the tops of the valves where their springs are, splay out a tad, you might have to tilt the whole valve train, like on the Porsche 356 & 912, so the inlet valves sticks out perfectly horizontally & & only the exhaust valves splays out, but doubly so. Of course it would mean pistons with asymmetrical tops on them though.
Yep. Wikipedia has the details. Red motor in Holdens - 1963 (149 cu in) in EH Holden until 1980 (202 cu in) in HZ. Lead free petrol and increased emission standards killed them off. They were replaced by Nissan 6 cylinder engines.
The red engine turned into blue then black motors and were used right up to the VK fuel injected commodore then the VL sported the Nissan motor from 1986 onwards....
Nice rebuild :-)
Cheers mate it was a cool build. Took me back to my teens :)
Need to look into a v twin layout.... Cough cough. Would love to see one of your radials in the flesh.
like this idea can you do theses as like twin carbs ?linked together ?
and fit the old original oil bath type air cleaner ?
regarding the tightness on the crank we found that when we rebuild the 179 what we found was the rear bearing is now made to fit all early reds but they tell you to clearance the end float o the main rear bearing we did this by using a flat piece of glass and wet & dry paper with oil sanding it till we got the right clearance end float
there is a conversion main seal that replaces the old rope seal much easier to fit as well
You can run twin TBI no problem. My tight crank was not the end float it was the cord seal not softened fully.
Very nice, can the TBI be positioned any other way on the manifold and have you found any manifold better than others ?
Yes TBI is not attitude sensitive and can be mounted in any orientation. This makes the TBI ideal for acrobatics.
you got a muffler on that? That engine sounds very ....tamed.... i was expecting a growl...haha
Yep the muffler points to the front not the rear.
Im almost 60 & the 202 when we were young was a peace of shit the 186 with a 161 head running roller rockers and a lumpy cam with triple stromberg cd-150 carbs & extractors was the way to go unless you were running a 253 and knocked off a 9inch diff from a ford to shove into the XU1 then it was fun and no they were not orangery red they were red but you did a nice job son
Very nice! Looks similar to the Ford inline 6 cylinder engine. What is the horse power potential?
Not sure on the HP, this one is a stock 202 engine with std high comp pistons.
Properly souped up in the XU1 Torana the 186 and the 202 were fire breathers. Very capable race cars winning against bigger V8s (Moffat and his 351 Falcon). Brocky showed them how to do it at Bathurst. What a pocket rocket! What a motor!
Does not seem to be any cross-hatching in those cylinders but bit hard to tell on the video??
Impressed! is this a pure mechanical injection setup? Like does this require any kinda sensors to run, or is this just a standalone unit? I'd be keen to personally test out one of these units, as I've done a few youtube vids. Looking to put another 4-5 holden sixes together over the summer along with another v8. Care to sponsor me with one of those units? More than happy to put out some vids/reviews...
Yes is all mechanical no electrics required. The TBI unit runs on regular low pressure fuel pumps, so the regular Holden engine driven fuel pump is fine.
Happy to do you a deal on TBI for you to try out. You'll be impressed I'm sure. They run great.
I would be interested try try this TBI on my 202. What's the best way to get in touch for details.
Paul@rotecaerosport.com
I remember these motors at the Mount Thomas police station
That’s interesting tell me more, what were they doing there? Stolen?
It was Gutless , timing Gear was Fibre
Type were dogs, had to replace with
Aluminium Type , Hungry on Fuel ⛽️
Leak more oil than they use , the
Best thing I ever did was purchase
V6 Jap motors , cars and utilities
More power , more Reliable , Fuel
Economy twice the mileage to the Tank
Never leak oil and after 30 Years Never
Broke Down , injection once on one motor
Ran perfect untill I hit Tree 🌳
Hi im from indonesia
Please diagram firing order distribution cdi bosch for 202 engine sir
They are called a red motor because, when first released in 1963, they were painted brown. Like a dark, red oxide. Changed to orange for 1968 HK. Blue from 1980 to 83, black from 84 to, I think, 86.
I always remembered them as this orange colour. I spoke with the paint supplier and he said the colour of mine is correct. Chevy orange.
@@fb2800 everyone's an expert.
Rocket Red, GMH colour 10890.
I'd wager, that your supplier doesn't even own a Holden.
how well would that go worked with tripples of your TB ?
Shit box holden motor gets a new life.
A little harsh but I tend to agree :)
Do you make these for the 253 standard 2 barrel carbi
Now you need a triple set to so I and many other ppl can replace the triple Su's
cool vid thanks
Would love to hear your thoughts on Lectron carbs
I used the Lectron Carburetors on a Drag Bike many years ago.
Very similar flat slides to this Throttle Body ??
Might be something in that ??
Wow nice one
Thanks a lot 😊
Those rope seals on the rear main are shit I’m pretty sure it’s the same on the 253 and 308
basically you have to soak them in 30W oil overnight
and professional engine builders will often put the crank in an out and torque it up multiple times before they get it right
some of them even make up a jig to locate the half moon rope seal well and truly into the recess and even then there’s a knack to make sure they don’t leak
and from memory that is cutting them 20 thou proud of the block on either side and allowing them to crush
and there might be other ways but I believe you can get neoprene rubber these days that’s the way to go
Definitely need to check how many pounds per square inch it takes to turn the crank but only once everything is in including the Pistons
100% correct
Can the tbi be adapted to a 253 or 308?
Yes
WHY?
Hi I'm working on an old land rover with a 202 and am looking at my carburetor options... then I see this. Awesome! I would love to use one of your units, but would they suit an automotive daily driven weekend offroader application? I get the priming thing but not too sure about constantly varying throttle response.. did I see somewhere it's not ok to alter the revs quickly/frequently?
@chilliedog We have supplied several TBI for street and track racing engine, bikes and cars no issues, the throttle response is fantastic. The mixture control you can just set and forget. But makes tuning for each given track condition a doddle! No more needing to change jets. The TBI is a fully mechanical low pressure system and has metered fuel delivery.
Please email me, I'll set you up with a good deal. paul@rotecaerosport.com
Yep sounds like a holden.
186 any day
slide valve, noice
What paint did you use on the manifold and alternator?
I had some metallic silver base coat left over from my planes paint job. Then clear over base to finish off
I had three of these over the years. Terrible motor. The 186 was better. These horrible 202 lumps revved to uselessness after three quarters of the rev range, sucking fuel, making noise and going nowhere. My best example was equipped with triple Strombergs a'la XU1, Accel ignition, Genie Headers, a Yella Terra Head upgrade and an 8 bolt Salisbury diff. Ditched the Traumatic in favour of an Aussie Boxes 4 speed. Still got smoked by Cortinas with 250cu Pre-crossflow engines sporting little more than a 4 barrel holley upgrade and a decent exhaust. Same money spent on a 186 would have been better. But would deep six all GMH sixes to get hold of a 350 Chev to play with back in the day.
The only real description of a Holden six and a traumatic. Everyone else is wearing their rose coloured glasses. They were good for boat anchors, but not much else.
A Cortina with a 250 cross flow was a rocket,thats for sure,and a Centura with a 265 with tripple webbers would do wheel stands,but Holdens were never built to race,Holden never designed performance cars.
I dragged off the cops in a Gpak torana with a 161 in it and an Aussie 4sp,they were in an xd with a 250, they said in court that they were doing 180 kph hour and I was pulling away from them,they just disappear behind me,their head lights got smaller and smaller till I could barely see them.it was a stock 161 with extractors and straight through exhaust out of an old clapped out ht ute :), I won't bore you with the story of why I removed the 186,but it was a good engine that was going well when swapped.
@@gogogeedusWhat are you talking about?
@@jefftheaussie2225 1/2 a carton in…. 🤣🤣. Cops saw him weaving and backed off…. Stock 161…. Such a good thing. 🤣🤣.
1960s,to 1979 the use of red motors
Electronic stromburg... Actually carb is probably more accurate..
Would it be better with a YellaTerra?
Yella terra are higher flow heads. So it would make more power sure. Run better, not really.
Now go get a Nissan twin cam heads and put them on
never heard it called a red motor, only ever a red block
it was called a red motor.
a red motor is a 186/192 not a 202 which is blue motor
Not correct. 202 red motors were an option in the HQ, starting from 1971. Blue motor was an extensive re-design that came out in 1980, in VC Commodores.
Didn't the Vb have a red motor. Vc blue motor? Vh black motor. Too many moons ago now.
My old LX Torana had a 202 red with 3 speed auto.
WB were the 202 blue motor
192 was a 186 + 60 thou not standard from factory.
The 202 was still a Red Motor even up to when the LX Torana was released in 1976.
Nah, wrong. It's an art form. Get tgat seal fitment wrong and will leak everytime
it had a trimatic box, the "try hard" what shit box, but good motor.
We used to call it the traumatic !!!
it was a good box unless abused, they usually cooked the tranny fluid when people tried to tow huge caravans across Australia.
8:47 I can go one better, two cut up coke cans and some bailing twine :)
"Iteration" arrrgh its a version, not a you tubers catch phrase
Pointless inlet manifold and exhaust headers.....so much horsepower LOST.....might as well just run a Holley....if you were SERIOUS; INDIVIDUAL THROTLE BODIES AND DIRECT INJECTION.......OR TRIPLE SU's old school power....
The engine Definitely Needs a Decent Inlet and Exhaust manifold.
But i think this guys idea is just to test the function more than the performance of the Throttle Body.
If that is the original rocker cover then that is a blue motor sorry mate
The rocker cover and engine was red when I purchased it. The original paint was old. The rocker cover had two PCV valves and a sealed oil cap. I blanked off the old PCV valves and went with an eBay vented oil cap. The serial number suggested the engine was from a 1971 Kingswood. I’m very confident this engine was never blue. Cheers!
Leaving rust in the head?? U awful awful person, how dare u
Worst motors ever built tbh. U obviously don’t know a lot about Holden engines