DIY Geothermal Greenhouse Part 4: Earth Battery INSTALLATION
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- #113 After starting to build our DIY EMT electrical metal conduit (1.25") greenhouse two years ago, we are finally completing the project.
We readily admit we are not experts at this (we are not engineers, greenhouse experts, or thermodynamic scientists), but a family doing our best to do it all ourselves and install based on all that we have read or watched on CZcams (Don't believe everything you see on the internet) to date and in line with our limited budget. Based on comments, we already know some things should be done differently. Hopefully, it still works well enough, even if not optimally. We plan to share the results regardless.
In this video we are INSTALLING the passive solar geothermal earth battery system (or climate battery/thermal banking/ground to air heat transfer) after excavating 3,200 cubic feet of dirt from underneath the greenhouse with a Mahindra 3016 tractor. The idea is to use two high efficiency inline fans to pull hot air from the top of the greenhouse during the heat of the day down through a system of black corrugated drain pipes (600 linear feet) in the ground (300' buried at two feet and 300' at four feet) in order to heat the clay in the ground and return cooler air to the greenhouse. At night the process reverses, effectively warming the greenhouse for the cost of leaving a 150 watt light bulb on. In the summer, spring, and fall, this will help to keep the greenhouse cool(er) on hot days, and in the spring, fall, and winter it will help keep it warm(er) at night - we HOPE.
Background on the project: Our farm homestead came with metal pipes in the ground from a former 16' x 50' hoop house. It also had water lines run from the farm well (which also needed to be restored) and a 60 amp electric service. In the first video we installed the 1.25" EMT conduit that serves as the frame. In future videos we'll frame the end walls, run electric, and get the plastic cover on in time for winter.
Each rib or section of the greenhouse consists of three 10' pipes, no cutting. They are joined by stock EMT connectors. The two outer angles are 117.3. The ridge angle is 125.4. Sides are 6' tall. Just over 10' to the ridge. 16' wide.
Ultimately, this will be a double wall plastic film greenhouse.
+AMDG
Music
Epidemic Sound: "Rhythmic Guitar"
Jason Shaw: "Landra's Dream" goo.gl/pi68XB
“Is it wrong? Could be. Will it be a disaster? Might be.”
Enjoyed the courage and honesty! I think it will work well. Thanks for documenting the system so we all can learn from your efforts!
I commend your efforts and i think your idea is sound, BUT, i saw no compacting going on. You cannot backfill 4 feet of dirt without compacting. In about a year you will begin having all kinds of settling problems. You should backfill in lifts of 1 foot maximum with vibratory compaction between each lift. There is no need to worry about crushing the corrugated pipe. It is designed to withstand the weight. One other things i noticed, you did no install filter fabric over and around the pipe. All you need is a small spot of dirt penetration and your pipe system is plugged and useless. I dont mean to critisize but these are major issues than be corrected before you get to far along if you havent already. Good Luck.
@Bbjones Jones
It best to dig narrow trenches so you dont disturb the bulk of the mass. Its cheaper than excavating the entire floor and considerably less work if your using a spade not a backhoe.
yeah the filling part make me anxious... You have to fill 30 to 40cm
and compact....
It settled some, but not a great deal.
@@emanuelgoncalvessantos4499 It worked out fine. God bless!
See...this is why on projects I like to read the comments...so I can be more aware !!! Thanks everyone 👏👏👏
Was just looking into greenhouse options for this year, and saw your video in my search results. Haven't seen a fellow FFA member online before! 🏕
I sure hope this is a HUGE success for you guys!! Good Job! I love seeing the whole family working together!
Thank you! It is fun having everyone out working on projects together. God bless!
Great vid, I use tubs on a way small scale to run hot air on way down and it transfers to water. Your dog thought he liked digging,
I sure hope you have wonderful luck with this project! I plan on doing a greenhouse eventually and this is great information for anyone! I do NOT plan to dig everything by hand! I'm too OLD!! Bee Blessed Danny and Rita in TN on Rooster's Ridge
Thank you! A backhoe would be the way to go with something like this, and my advice now would be to oversize EVERYTHING if I was going to do it again. OF course that means more money, but it would be a more effective system.
I did notice that you mention around 8:30 that the heating would apply for about 1 foot around the pipe. I am convinced that, due to thermal fluctuation, heat will seek upwards. Though I do not exactly know how the directional matrix, with its center in the pipe, would look like in dirt/gravel. To sum up. Heat can go down from a source, but will in most conditions go upwards. Therefore. The dirts ability to absorb thermal energy would only apply above the pipe, not underneath it.
Heat conducts equally in all directions in solids. I think you are referring to hot air rising in convective heat transfer, which only occurs in air or fluids.
Energy moves from higher temperature to lower temperature. One of the laws of physics and engineering. In air, that typically happens by convection, with hot air rising up. In soil, it is a completely different equation. You will extract energy almost equally from all directions around the pipe.
well done. thanks for showing us your experiences. it's great to be able to visualize how things might work out best.
We just build our greenhouse out off 1 1/4 emt conduit. It's 16ft by 40ft. Thank you for showing us how you guys build your greenhouse. It realy helped
Wow - you beat us to a completed greenhouse! Glad anything we've uploaded could be of help to others.
How did it work? Any videos?
Ok, I am totally new with all this stuff and none of this still makes any sense, but this is *amazing* !
Well, can you do a follow up video please? I think most of us theatre thinking about building something like this would like some verification of how well it works, so we can validate the expense with our wives!! Well done by the way!
I agree.
Im jealous, looks like a fun build and you have a great looking family hope to get there someday myself.
great stuff, only OCD type gripe is the handling of your bucket :) putting unnecessary stress on your hydrolic system! beyond that looks good and right by everything i've ever done or read keep it up we need more people to relearn the skills of living!
😬 guilty as charged. I am to rough on it. But that little tractor got the job done!!
We have 80 or so days above 100 in summer and the same number of frosty nights. I’m picturing something similar to your system, but putting the floor of the greenhouse 3’ underground for added insulation. Stack 4’ of cinder blocks as lower walls, then timber frame roof. It would be on a slope, so we can easily drain ground water.
If I were to choose a position on your crew it would be what ever the dog does. Man that's smart. Lol, its almost as hard to do a project as it is to film it, dead batteries, full sd cards.... Great job, using this for our build so thank you for the in sight!
Ha, yes the dog has the life! Thanks for the kind words. All the best to you and yours.
I sure love this idea and hope it works. One worry is the distribution of air into the system. At low air velocities, I don't think it will be a big deal. But at higher velocities, there will be turbulence, raising the resistance. So the first split will see similar resistance in each direction, meaning volume will split roughly evenly between each side. But one side of the split connects to only one lateral run, while the other side goes to multiple. The heat/cold will be split asymmetrically.
Its just a worry. Let's see if it is a real world problem.
Nice work! Great progress...love to see everyone involved! I'm working on my 10x20 EMT frame greenhouse and hope to have it finished in the next month...weather has not been cooperating! Excited to see this system come to life for you!
Ha! Talk about weather not cooperating! Right there with you. Yesterday was a race against time (and incoming rain), and to our boys' great credit they never complained once about being out there all day, no lunch, working hard in the cold and rain. We're hoping to get it all completed ASAP and actually use it before summer gets here. Best wishes on your greenhouse!
I built mine with sleeves over the perforated tubing to prevent dirt filling the tubes
Yes, we're hoping we don't regret not doing that, but since water won't be routinely flowing into them, maybe we'll be ok.
I was just going to ask about geo fabric sleeves .....
No personal experience with thermal effect of this but, I have used weed mat to protect drain tiles used in landscaping applications.
I was thinking strategically drilling drain holes in the bottom of non-perf pipe to allow drainage but eliminate the need for filter sock.
We use geo fabric on all of our drain pipes and drain rock. It work great seperating water from soil.
I just love this video.. I hope to take on this project for my own one day..
Fantastic job.. There is no right or wrong long as your plants produce..
These are called GAHT systems, Ground to Air Heat Transfer. One thing I might add is that they have a high temp. and low temp. limit switches, that way your not using energy moving air when the temp. is just right in the green house....usually 50 F at the low and 75 F for the high....you save a bit on electricity, not as noisy all the time, blowers last longer and I'd like to add if your going to try this system out, go for it, they work great. Try and use 6 inch for your manifolds and solid 6 inch for the risers with 4 inch weeping pipe as shown here. Good job here and certainly worth it but could be improved on.
hello sir i am an engineer from australia am very interested in the idea but I cant understand the reason for the foam insulation as I believe this foam insulation will work against your purpose to exchange heat with the ground , for example in summer if you are cooling your greenhouse it means you are warming the cool ground underneath and these foams will stop the ground from being able to cool back down to keep supplying you with cold air
Short sleeves!! This project is really coming together. Love it.
Yes! You guys keep the snow up North!
Smooth bore pipe has less resistance = smaller fan or blower great thought
Nice work! Helped me plan for mine, I just need to see how the fans work and what sort of fan. Going to check your other videos now 👍🏼
Did you notice the white figure that popped u just behind ur shoulder .. at the mound ? !! Amazing !
LOL. 4:51 starts the silhouette making an appearance on the dirt mound
Best Part!
Foil covered foam on one side facing inward may reflect heat back towards your medium while insulating from the cold exterior earth .
Great work! Did the same thing on my channel a year ago. My greenhouse was finished last week, so I am VERY excited for next season! :-)
Congratulations!
So happy I found this. Thanks for sharing keep up the good work.
Your on the right track it's the only way to learn anything is by doing it. Have you looked into Aquaponics ? Old school for the 21st century
Think it's a great idea. Could see a bathtub effect with the now softer soil above the hard clay. But that would equalize eventually. Looking forward to the results! Like you said, see how it goes and modify.
Yes, realizing repacking the soil, on our time frame (and trying to stay ahead of rain) is an issue. I plan to drive the tractor over it repeatedly, hoping to get good compaction. Hopefully, the system works!
Looks good! Only thing I would say is... it might have been better to put the insulation right AT the walls rather than inset... inset, you will get cold "bleeding" in from the outside soil during winter. I am looking forward to seeing how this work for you!
no you will not. but thanks for your concern.
In my area we have a high water table so I had to install a sump pump as the ground pipes filled with water!
The specific heat capacity is around 2.2 for clay soil and 4.2 for water. Granted a system with water needs storage tanks and water being pumped around. However you get twice the heat sink, thermal storage capacity
The header system you're using appears far less efficient than had you run a continuous serpentine hose back and forth to maximize underground air time.
Things as they appear and things as they are, are sometimes two different things
@Dennis Totmann, agree completely!
I think it depends. Maybe the goal is lower velocity through the underground pipe to allow more heat exchange to occur.
@@edwardj456
The goal is the exact opposite ;)
you are correct - don't listen to the stoners. Have done these projects before - this will work ok with pipes spread out. You are working with heated mass, which is a slow exchange. All the effort to dig a damn hole, you better make use of it. Velocity? Give me a break.
What about using like a #5 gravel around those pipes? Think that would retain the heat/cold air better? Are you worried that the clay might crush or fill the pipes? Great job on the project and the video, well done! So excited for you guys. :) Okay, makes sense on the gravel.
It does not seem that the clay crushed the pipes. We tested the system last night and there seemed to be zero reduction on airflow. As to gravel, as I understand it we want clay up against the pipes as they are what will absorb and hold the heat pushed into the system, but we're doing this based on what others have done or said - no first hand experience yet. We'll certainly share the results and outcomes. Thanks for watching and for the support!
Great, innovative idea being implemented
Just a thought on the part where you talk about pulling the hot air from up top down into the piping through the ground. I think it would be more efficient to push the cooler more dense air from down near the floor through the pipe. The effect is the same, but I think it may work better and would really just require you to change which pipe your fans are connected to. I don't have a greenhouse like this, but I'm in the very early stages of trying to plan for one, so YMMV. Would love to hear what you think about that.
Adam, let me first say that we have no personal experience with one of these systems - we have only seen articles and videos about them, so we are trusting that ALL of those are correct and should see soon enough. As we understand it, the idea is to HEAT the ground clay as much as possible during the day and summer and then use that at night and in the winter. Hopefully we'll explain it more in future videos - if the weather will ever cooperate long enough for us to get back to the project!
Good idea ! It will give u cool air when u need it.
Suggestions in the capacity of a professional plumber .
Use pipe with a geo fabric covering to stop the silty clay from entering the pipe. If you don't have this in the USA you should still be able to buy I think geofab cut into strips and just wrap around the pipe.
If you want excellent all round penetration of the air into the clay I would use just a thin layer 3/4" of 1/4 pea gravel around your pipe. I think this would be much more efficient.
The site you have is very flat and although you are dealing with clay there's a possibility that rainfall off your greenhouse could penetrate the ground and end up filling your pipes with water and possibly ceiling the holes with fine clay. I would put a slight fall on your pipe work and at the lower end bring a Bend riser up that you could put a vacuum pipe to suck the water out,
All the best
Just in case.
I'm no scientist but I would locate my top layer of pipes about 12 inches from the surface as the heat doesn't have to penetrate so far to reach the pipes.
I'm certainly no expert just a keen gardener but I hope my comments may give you some considerations.
LOL, you have a "Whack-a-mole" on the dirt pile behind you.
5:42
might be an idea to have a sump at one end in case your system completely fills with water if your water table goes up in the rainy season . hope things work out great
Thanks - yes we're planning to at least be prepared to put hoses down into the outlets and pump water out if necessary.
Amazing! Bob's Adventures hailing from Idaho
Thank you for sharing this. I'm wondering why you decided not to use french drain filter fabric sock on your pipes? I'm planning on building a much smaller cattle panel greenhouse (12.5 ft x 7 ft) with a climate battery this summer/fall. My plan is to only go down 2 ft, insulate the perimeter, and lay water filled 16 oz plastic coke bottles along the drains to add more "heat/cold storage". I'm not sure this will work. But it costs me nothing since I have been saving the used bottles. There are so many variations and divergent opinions about this. I look forward to seeing how this works out for you.
You're welcome. As to the drain sock, since water won't be flowing into the pipes (along with silt) as it would in a french drain, we just didn't see it a necessary expense. The clay back fill is not that small and basically compresses back to a hard packed mass. It really shouldn't be an issue clogging the pipes. Your idea with two liter bottles can't hurt. Might want to consider doing something like spray painting them black. And yes, there are a LOT of opinions about all of this. I tend to go with Jason Smith over at Coghill Farm, just try things and "grind it out" as he says. Experiment and have fun. If it doesn't work, try something else.
We stay in southern spain, whwre it can get to 40 degrees C(104 fahrentheit)
And coldest in winter will only be -2 in early mornings (28 fahrentheit)
So we sont need to keep thw heat in but ratjer get it out as moat of the year is warmer not colder,
So i wo t be putting foam around the hole, simoly to just get rid of the heat more, as that is the biggest problem for us.
I could not follow any word spoken since the little clown appeared at 04:50 !!!
Somebody told me there was some research done by Messerschmitt/Mercedes: you could never ever fill in energy if the bottom is open - the good thing is: It also works the way round: you never can cool it down bei accident, so you have some 10°C all over the winter ...
That reminds me at my hypocaustic attempts to heat my house with warm air which did not work really good until I changed to water after realizing that air is the perfect ISOLATOR and water (and hydrogen) can store more warmth inside than any other material. PLUS radiant heat with warm walls and cold air is much cosier, than warm air and cold walls.
Maybe the situation is completely different with this kind of clay??? Thanks for uploading - and please keep us on track!
Wouldn't you want the heat to bleed out?
For example; It's summer and you are pulling the cool air out and packing it with hot air. Now the cold air supply stops because the ground is warming. As all things in nature try to balance, the ground around it [if not using foam] would pull the heat out allowing the dirt to remain cool. But with foam it works like a cooler. The hot air does not leach out and instead maintains the temperature, allowing for no more cool air to be pulled from the ground. I feel like I am missing something.
Eventually the holes in the pipe will get plugged up with the Clay. I would have put a small amount of gravel around the holes of the pipe to keep it from getting plugged up. Of course it would take quite a few years but it’s no different then a septic leach field
it will be interesting to see how your greenhouse works. It's very similar to my design except I will circulate air during the day and let the heat rise naturally at night. We are planning to move to Arkansas, so probably won't build the greenhouse till after we move. First we need to find the right piece of land.
We're pretty eager to see how it works and look forward to sharing the outcomes good or bad. Best wishes on the land search!
I will be watching you closely. Looking forward to seeing how it works.
Just like others have said I think you either need to snake 1 super long, curved pipe or have dedicated inline fans per line of pipe because when you put T's and elbows on something with 1 fan, the air will go the path of least resistance so some of the air is not recirculating inside of the pipes in the middle. Im curious to know how well this setup works but this is something Ive found when using hooking up cooltube light ststems in sequence with ducting... If I were to hook up multiple rows of cooltube lights to one fan, some of the rows would be super hot. Every row of cooltube lights need their own inline fan. Your system certainly looks better but I think "snaking" or bending one or two longer pipes around the entire area would be better in terms of airflow.
Mike, thanks for the comment and feedback. We think the idea of having the the fan in one corner of the system and the exhaust in the other makes nearly all of it the path of least resistance. We've seen a fair number of pictures and images of these systems going in and others do something very similar. Our sense is that because it is effectively a closed system, eventually hot air will get to all of the soil around the pipes. Of course, we could be wrong. Either way, we plan to share the results. Thanks for watching!
Hey thanks for the reply! I didn't even consider that the exhaust was at the opposite corner. I really hope this works out, I want to try it on a project coming up soon. Just like other people have said I have a question about condensation... I agree that perforated pipe is the best idea for escaping condensation in the pipes but is there any consideration for excess rain or if snow melts in excess and the pipes fill up with water and the system becomes completely clogged? Is 4ft - 6ft depth enough feet down to not have to worry about water seeping into the pipes from the outside or is that something to consider? Thank you very much for your time putting these videos together by the way!
Mike, I agree that one or two long pipes would make more even airflow, but you want to maximize the airflow more than anything. One fan for each circuit would work, but it's not cost effective. Heating ductwork systems are designed to provide consistent airflow from each of the ducts off of the main trunk, just copy that design and it will work good enough. Even having the outlet and inlet at opposite corners like this video isn't enough to get even airflow, more will flow at the ends of the manifold and less in the middle. Even more important is the airflow through the tubes being enough to carry enough heat to matter. The small manifold reduces that airflow.
They have a silk sock to wrap perforated pipe with. It comes in a long roll.
6:16 behind the dirt mound hahahaha
Glad another person saw that!
4:48 as well
haha
I see aliens.
LOL
A white foot???
What the heck. .
awesome video. alot of hard work is going to pay off.
Thanks!
Awesome endeavor! I wonder, if you have compared smooth wall perforated pipes instead of ribbed, because from hvac efficiency I know the ribs add big resistance to the air flow. Of course this is a slow moving, but just wondering. I'll check your other videos, if you haven't given updates, let us know how it turned out. Also, something else to consider as cheap efficient insurance, just like in the pipe and gravel septic leach fields you put building paper over the gravel, you could do so over the pipes before backfilling. This would protect form silt geting into the perforations but I think like you said, it's probably OK without it too. Good luck and thanks for sharing
That would defeat the purpose. The ribbed pipes causes more turbulence, and more soil contact. That is the goal. covering the pipes would also greatly reduce thermal transfer. The efficiency of the air travel is not a concern here, at least not in how hvac systems operate. You actually want more turbulence in this instance. More chance for thermal transfer to/from the soil.
@@klincecum that makes alot of sense thanks for the explanation Happy New Year
@@alexsmith9328 Cheers!
Brilliant idea
It looks pretty good, although I tend to agree that the pipes should be ganged into a larger feeder. A lot of the heat storage of such a system will come through the en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthalpy_of_vaporization of water. A lot of energy goes into condensing and evaporating water, which is why it's critical to have the perforated pipe allowing air access to a large surface area of soil to condense and evaporate moisture from.
Yes, thanks. We improved it (fixed the mistake) in a next video.
Why you don't have insulation on the floor under the pipes? I think heat escapes not only to the side but underneath because soil at that depth are much colder than the soil above some feet.
I like what you said from the start do it right the first time..The pipe your using isn't a very good product...Your better off in the long run to buy the heavier structured drain pipe that is white sdr35 or better than that pipe that will not sustain it's integrity over the long run..Everytime I've dug that black flimsy drain pipe up it's squshed not working...Also it's a little more expensive but you could just get regular water or sewer pipe and drill the holes for venting your self...You could also have a drainage collection system sitting on the bottom as well to recollect the water your using to irrigate the plants in your green house...This excavation is the exact way to make a sand filter where you collect the water shoot to a diverter box then down to a tank for clorination..Simple pump in that tank and you could reuse the water to continue the irrigation of your green house..Kill two birds with the same stone..
Also using that corrugated pipe requires a rock ballast around it to help maintain it's structural integrity...Again Your quite deep with the thermal lines..+/- 4'.. Having a higher line at 2' also will probably dry out the soil requiring more irrigation of your plants inside the green house..Still think you will end up with ponded water in your lower pipes simply because the irrigation for plants..Clay soils do not allow penatration of water that's why it's used for ponds, landfill capping etc...Jar test of lower portion of excavation to see settlement of soil would of been a good check..It's to late now...The green house is in use so that in itself is a good test..Over all this is a great idea you undertook
The lay out of the underground air flow to assist in the temp is a bit like a septic drain field. The greater the coverage the greater the efficiency. The application of the insulation is a good idea till the ability for the system to properly operate. A secondary system attached and controlled with baffles to assist when the limits become over limited. AKA A second GEO system that is not insulated being connected and regulated... Make since I hope. just my thoughts.
I would think that you need several intake & exhaust pipes rather than 1 per level.
It seems pretty restrictive and hard to transfer much heat. I hope that I am wrong and it performs efficiently.
Good luck! 😃
We're actually copying the systems that are installed by Ceres Greenhouse Solutions out in Boulder, Colorado: www.ceresgs.com/climate-control/gaht/ So we hope it works, too! But seeing as they have installed a bunch of these, we're leaning towards optimistic.
Yes, that is encouraging. They certainly would change design flaws in subsequent builds if they noticed performance issues. Praying for clear skies for you.
Thanks for the prayers! And we'll all get to see how it works soon enough. Best case it works better than we might hope, worst case it moves air and is marginally effective. It's all one big real time experiment. But trust us - we'll let everyone know if it doesn't work as well as we hope!
Copying is as good as what you copy. What calculations did they use? What performance testing have they done?? and are you in CO also? I'm more into water thermodynamics, but I'd guess you have a 75% bottleneck by using the same size pipe as a manifold. Dig it up and use 8-12" smooth duct for your manifold. You've put thousands of dollars of labor and materials into this, don't blow it on one critical detail. Seriously, the airflow is far more critical than the insulation.
Otherwise the construction and design looks great, one of the best. Good spacing, no need for gravel, not overly complicated.
Thanks for the comment and info. Seems projects like these are always a learning process if it's not something that has been done a million times. And even then, there can always be improvements or more efficient ways of doing it. In truth, we've looked at a lot of videos and read a lot of information on different websites. Even there, folks will say one thing ("You need 10% of the volume in linear feet of tube.") and there seems to be no science or data to back it up (and people let them know that). Another point made is how often the air in the greenhouse needs to be turned over an hour, but no reason is given for that number. So a lot of this seems to be a case of someone did it one way, and a bunch of folks started copying it, and that became the way to do it (including us). So this is an experiment for us. If we have to dig up the ends later and adjust the intake and manifolds, we can, but unfortunately we are on a very tight timeline right now. We'll have to see how it does as installed. All this is to say, your points are well taken. Perhaps we'll put a high efficiency fan at each end of the system, one pushing and one pulling. Again, thanks for taking the time to comment.
Just wondering if there is a better media to encase the pipes with to ensure more consistent retention and distribution of the controlled air temp, i.e P rock, 3/4 stone etc., I would think that would also be better for the drainage of condensation as there is very little if ant relief in the surrounding clay to accomedate (spl?) for drainage. Just a few observations.
I am sure you are better informed than I am and you have done your home work, I am just looking at from the standpoint of a drain layer and having dealt with the many problems dealing with clay. I was also wondering about the route you took with the layout of the pipes as others mentioned, why not one continuous run. Also agree with the compaction every foot or so on the back fill, seen too many sidewalks on new homes cracking and sinking from rushing to back fill to only have everything settle and the problems eresulting.
All in all, I wish you luck, just some of my observations, and yes, I have been known to over think things. LOL
Definitely a great series and look forward to each episode.
I think the recommended depth to dig is 8-10 feet. Where's your frost line? Can't wait to see the result.
The air will take the path of least resistance. What will make the air reach the far pipe from the inlet. The air will take the most direct route out of the system.
An initial overview of the design and purpose of this structure would have made this a much more useful video.
This is video 4 in the series. This is the first one I’ve seen, and haven’t gone back to view 1-3 yet, but expect they explain the project in those videos.
WONT THE pipes fill up with ground water after heavy rains and snow melts in the spring??
Most geothermal projects includ pumps for condensation build up
Great concept but I don't know about using big o. I used that for drainage and after about 10 years I got sink holes along the runs. Turns out the big o collapsed. I went with perforated pvc and have had no problems since.
I think you should’ve covered the perforated pipe with cloth just a idea
I would think you'd want to cover these tubes with sand and gravel gravel on the edge sand in the middle it holds more thermal mass and then dirt on top of the sand so it'd be like a heating pad throwing dirt on top of it I don't know if dirt would hold this thermal mass as well as sand will actually soak in heat
Hello and thank you for your videos and updates to your in ground greenhouse. I am in the process of putting one in myself in Kansas. My greenhouse is 20 x 40, 8’ south wall, 12’ north wall. I will be installing a climate battery and was wondering where and what type/brand, etc. of in-line fans you used. Thank you and God bless you in your endeavors!
at 5:43 a ghost pops up behind the dirt berm
and 4:48 :D
🤣🤣🤣
Ha! What was that?
I have a question. If you already dig that far as you did, why didn’t you just leave the ground floor on that height? Whatever temperature you are getting from those pipes would be your floor temperature. And perhaps dig just those pipes a bit further down to get few more degrees from them. If at all. No?
I am concerned about groundwater in those pipes. I am not an expert and not trying to point flaws in your work. I would love an update. We use buried pipe like that as a mock french drain to spread groundwater away from wet spots and move around the property. Wouldn't mold become an issue? The fans will dry it some, but wouldn't there be daily condensation? Thank you for running this experiment, how did it turn out?
I thought the pipe would run like a snake instead of going parallel ,is there any specific reason to do the way you did? Isn't running the pipe in a continuous snake formation let the air more time to cool down? Tell me if iam wrong😊
You are right and you get never an equal flow trough the pipes , bad design .
How is the greenhouse working out since winter? I’m about to bury my tubes. putting the clay dirt over the tubes still the best no covering no rocks? Thank you
The problem with your design, is that air flow is restricted by the design of the headers. You have six four inch tubes being fed by one four inch tube, so the air velocity in the header will be six times the average in the long tubes, yielding turbulent flow, and a large pressure drop.
The cross sectional area of the headers should be about the same as the total cross sectional area of the six tubes.
A quick calculation yields a diameter of 9.79" diameter, so say 10". Using this diameter for the headers on both ends, you can connect a radial fan such as used in a domestic HVAC installation, and move a reasonable amount of air through the network.
Trying to do that through one 4" tube gives too much pressure drop. If a plastic pipe, and fittings of this diameter is too expensive, I would make a header of similar cross sectional area using 16"x12"x8" concrete block, 16"x8"x4" solid block, and mortar. I would dry stack the block, using the mortar to connect the 4" tube to openings in the concrete block header. I would make the vertical parts of what ever size concrete block that is convenient below grade, with galvanized steel above grade. I would also place the intake for the fan near the top of the greenhouse so as to ingest the hottest air.
I would also preheat the battery during the summer by thermostatically controlling the fan to run whenever the temperature inside the greenhouse exceeded 90 degrees or so.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment. Interesting idea about the bock header - have to keep that in mind if we do this on our larger greenhouse. If you haven't seen the rest of the series, we changed the size of the pipes on the ends to six inch pipes and do have the intakes in the ridge. Again, thanks for taking the time to comment.
Enjoyed all the build even seeing the failures. I've been in the planning stage for a while. I'd like to know where you found your inflatable plastic from. and how's it been working. Thanks for sharing.
I found you Waldo!! 5:44
air will not flow as others have said brcause of joints, needs to be one continus tube snaked on bottom, one way in one way out. what you just created is dead zones
Terry Frederickson hi
I will be building a greenhouse this spring
Can you explain what you said about the dead zone if you put elbows on the piping
Thabks
Oh oh
You should have let the rain hit the first tier do you get really good soil compaction :) then after the rain clears then do the second tier..
What was your Temperature reading, coming up from the tubing in the ground? We use to SNAKE our Hose/Tubing depending on what we were building, and use Hot Water to heat.. as in radiant from the floor up, very Stable once it comes to desired temp. Same HOT water ran through the Hot Water heater for the House, being a secondary benefit (free house water for house use). We burn USED Engine Oil & Vegetable Oil.... all FREE. One heat I built early goes up to 1000 deg.F. Hot water short and sweet.!
LOL @5:45 video photo bomb from behind the dirt pile. Or crazy large prairie dog! Alien?
Ha! Someone finally saw that! Good eye.
The air, like water, will find the shortest easiest path, and the rest of the pipes will not circulate.
If you watch one of the next videos in the series, we replaced the manifold or trunk pipes with six inch pipes. While we had the the main tube off, and the ends of the six pipes were exposed, we ran air through the system. An equal amount of air was coming out of each of the six pipes. Seems the air wants to reach equilibrium as would water.
if you put the inletthe
why didn't you go down to 3mt/9ft? at that depth the temperature should be stable all year round at 11/12 degrees Celsius / 55 degrees Farenheit
why didn't you?
You shouldn't have joined the ends of the black pipe. Air will take the path of least resistance you will have most of the air flow through the shortest one and almost nothing through the longest one.
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment. Actually, if you watch the "Mistake" video we uploaded after this one, you'll see we dug up the ends and replaced the manifolds. When we did that we tested all of the pipes to see if there was a difference in the volume of air coming out of each one, and there was no difference. Seems the air actually wants to reach equilibrium going through the pipes - not simply take the shortest route. Also, because the intake and exhaust are located exactly opposite each other, the distance between points is exactly the same on each pipe going under the ground. There is not shorter path.
The point of puting the intake opposite the exaust is that so the distance the air travels is the same no matter what path it were take. There is no shortest path or longest path.
I've been seeing research on sand sands much better heat conductor than soil you've got a lot of sand in your soil it's probably pretty good
Seems like those pipes would fill with soil given a couple years.
Yep.
That kid that keeps popping up in the background is freaking me out.
There's a term in the military for that. It's called goose necking, or something like that. I noticed it too
4:48 - right side of the screen 😂
if you do not plan to use the air for cooling your house, its hugely more efficient to use water to transfer thermic energy.
Good luck :) This project is nice
Thank you!
Was the intent of this construction to store daytime heat and then reclaim the heat at night, or was it intended to access more constant ground temperatures at depth?
If intended for storing heat, would it have been better to also lay the foam flat, somewhere below the pipes?
Next time you do a green house earth battery It might be wiser to run all 4 inch pipes to the corners and 6 Inches above finished grade! Do just one fan! Then build a plywood manifold at the top to encapsulate all the pipes...out the top of the plywood box run your larger sized solid pvc pipe to the ridge of the green house so all pipes draw evenly fully using and charging the earth battery...air like water will seek the path of least resistance, so by having the manifold below the earth your cheating the effect by drawing a majority of air through the closest runs...
Ty
Looks like a fine 🙂 project. You show offs.😜
Would there be benefit to having an insulation layer beneath the pipes?
its not passive if you have motorized fans. hope you got the orientation and glass in the right spots!
With an R factor of about 1 per inch of soil I would want to see some research on the effectiveness vs. cost of using the insulation along the perimeter of the thermal mass. However, placing rigid insulation right at the bottom edge of the greenhouse and going down 2' into the ground can prevent thermal bleeding into the greenhouse itself. Basically, you keep the frost line out of the greenhouse and extend the use of the greenhouse later into the winter months - something I've seen firsthand. During your use of the greenhouse in the course of the next 2 years would you make a record of the ground and air temperatures for both inside and outside of the greenhouse?
Thanks for the feedback and info. Yes, we plan to track data points at various times of year and share them in the future. We've done a few one year update videos. We'll no doubt do one for this as well.
How did this work for you? Maybe an update video?
Why are you insulating the ground which should be a steady temperature all year below the frost line?
Forget where their location is.. My area Friday will go down 6 feet or so, depending on type of winter we have. Isolating the battery will prevent leaching of heat
Frost not Friday
Bingo! You're intuition is correct. Insulating around the pit is 100% incorrect.