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The Lion in Winter is my favorite movie. Peter and Katherine portray Henry and Eleanor EXACTLY how I picture them. The quotes from this movie are marvelous and endless.
No end to the irony in casting however - Peter O’Toole, delicious as always, the tall wraithlike Irishman playing a short, irascible, red headed demon from Anjou, sigh… we’ll never see O’Toole’s like again
Agreed, in Becket the role of Henry plays 2nd fiddle to the ‘archbishop’ (one time debauched companion of the king) - irony here was in real life Burton and O’Toole, along with Richard Harris, were notorious drunks, well, let’s say they enjoyed a few lost weekends (Harris is both charming and hysterical relating tales of their years together) so my enjoyment in Becket was not the rapport between them in ‘character’ as much as it was two great friends occasionally reminding me that they were ‘Henry’ and ‘Becket’ - With Lion in Winter O’Toole may well have been quite friendly with Katherine Hepburn, I don’t know, but the dynamic was different, as was the writing. Look for Harris’s YT interviews where he regaled his host(s) about his days with O’Toole (in particular) - sigh, they’ll never be another one like him!
Henry II really does deserve more credit because holding together a realm consisting of multiple different independent nations and polities all with their own separate cultures and histories and traditions of governance all while every single other neighbouring power were hostile to it's existence. Louis VII might not have been a good wartime leader, but he seemed quite good at political machinations and getting everyone on side against Henry. Combine that with Eleanor herself organising her sons and much of the rebel forces and you have a massive problem at hand. It's a testament to Henry's skill as a monarch that he got a grip on the situation so quickly.
The very nature of feudalism between the lands of the Langues d'oc(Occitan) and the Langues d'oïl(Northern France) is also systematically different. The Northern French (therefore Norman/English as well) feudalism was very 'vertical' as in top down. If you were loyal to your lord and he went forward, you went with him, because he must know what he's doing and you were bound by the laws of god and man to obey. This lent itself to centralisation, even the splintered lands of France were centred around large magnates. The Occitan was a lot more 'horizontal' if that makes any sense. The alliances and relations were a lot more focused on inter personal relations or coalitions between independent feudal states than any structure of alliance. They appreciated their independence and took personal insult to any imposition against them. This was why Henry II trying to centrally organise his Occitan possessions was like trying to herd cats across a river, and also why when the Albigensian crusade was called, the Languedoc revolted against the northerners and why they came down on them like an anvil.
I get home from a rough day at work, and I open CZcams to find an Epochs preview. My day immediately gets better. Thank you. 😊 That being said, y'all mentioned the Peasants' Crusade in this admittedly fantastic video; have you considered doing a piece on the Children's Crusade? (If you already did, my apologies. I try to watch every Epochs that I can, but I know some slip through the notifications.)
John is the reason there was an invasion by Prince Louis...Philip Agustas son, to invaded England...William Marshall saved the crown of England by supporting Johns son, Henry.
John I married Isabella of Angouleme when she was about 12 yrs old. It was said he spent an inordament amount of time on his couch with his young wife.
Had Henry continued his partnership with Eleanor, things might have turned out differently. Henry's only flaw was his failure to actually incorporate his family into his decisions. He wanted to control everything and not consider their advice. That is what drove the wedge between him and Eleanor. He wouldn't recognize her power.
Carl must be confusing Septimania and Aquitania, Septimania is the mediterranean south of France and Aquitania de Atlantic part, part of Aquitania had been Vasconia and had a strong relationship with the Basque culture and the kingdom of Navarre, part of it still does, there was Vasconic languages spoken in Aquitania and of course in Gasconia, there is nothing Italian in Aquitania although obviously there are influences from the Roman empire like in the rest of Southwestern Europe
Not to split hairs but the troubadour culture, Aquitaine, and the court Eleanor was raised in FAR surpassed anything in the so-called courts in Paris or London - Europe wouldn’t see the sophistication and degree of cultural magnificence again until the later dukes of Burgundy (Valois) (you featured Philip the Good in your illustration Beau, he was always known to wear black, an excessively expensive and arduous color to produce at the time, shown c.1440-50’s prob as he died mid 1460’s) The backwater of Louis VII’s court was enlivened only by the wealth of religious artifacts, and Henry II’s court??? Good grief!!! The one who came closest to continuing the cultural heritage and tastes of Eleanor was Richard, her favorite son and endowed with Aquitaine - a case could easily be made that Richard, as Duke and king far preferred his Aquitainian lands and duties to England - he was a younger son and had grown up with the idea that his fate and life were ties to his mother’s inheritance. Btw, Louis VII, foolish in the extreme, allowed his divorced wife to retain her inheritance, something the far more cunning Louis XI - the king who reconstituted France’s borders to its ‘former glory’ - would never have been so feeble minded to allow!
The Lion in Winter is my favorite movie. Peter and Katherine portray Henry and Eleanor EXACTLY how I picture them. The quotes from this movie are marvelous and endless.
No end to the irony in casting however - Peter O’Toole, delicious as always, the tall wraithlike Irishman playing a short, irascible, red headed demon from Anjou, sigh… we’ll never see O’Toole’s like again
@bethwilliams4903 it was actually OToole's 2nd performance of Henry, he played him in Becket also. This was the better portrayal, IMO. ❤️
Agreed, in Becket the role of Henry plays 2nd fiddle to the ‘archbishop’ (one time debauched companion of the king) - irony here was in real life Burton and O’Toole, along with Richard Harris, were notorious drunks, well, let’s say they enjoyed a few lost weekends (Harris is both charming and hysterical relating tales of their years together) so my enjoyment in Becket was not the rapport between them in ‘character’ as much as it was two great friends occasionally reminding me that they were ‘Henry’ and ‘Becket’ -
With Lion in Winter O’Toole may well have been quite friendly with Katherine Hepburn, I don’t know, but the dynamic was different, as was the writing.
Look for Harris’s YT interviews where he regaled his host(s) about his days with O’Toole (in particular) - sigh, they’ll never be another one like him!
Henry II really does deserve more credit because holding together a realm consisting of multiple different independent nations and polities all with their own separate cultures and histories and traditions of governance all while every single other neighbouring power were hostile to it's existence. Louis VII might not have been a good wartime leader, but he seemed quite good at political machinations and getting everyone on side against Henry. Combine that with Eleanor herself organising her sons and much of the rebel forces and you have a massive problem at hand. It's a testament to Henry's skill as a monarch that he got a grip on the situation so quickly.
Eleanor is one of my favorites.
The very nature of feudalism between the lands of the Langues d'oc(Occitan) and the Langues d'oïl(Northern France) is also systematically different.
The Northern French (therefore Norman/English as well) feudalism was very 'vertical' as in top down. If you were loyal to your lord and he went forward, you went with him, because he must know what he's doing and you were bound by the laws of god and man to obey. This lent itself to centralisation, even the splintered lands of France were centred around large magnates.
The Occitan was a lot more 'horizontal' if that makes any sense. The alliances and relations were a lot more focused on inter personal relations or coalitions between independent feudal states than any structure of alliance. They appreciated their independence and took personal insult to any imposition against them.
This was why Henry II trying to centrally organise his Occitan possessions was like trying to herd cats across a river, and also why when the Albigensian crusade was called, the Languedoc revolted against the northerners and why they came down on them like an anvil.
Ive been waiting for this episode.
Amy Kelly wrote an excellent book on Eleanor called Eleanor and the 4 Kings. Very good read on her life.
I get home from a rough day at work, and I open CZcams to find an Epochs preview. My day immediately gets better. Thank you. 😊 That being said, y'all mentioned the Peasants' Crusade in this admittedly fantastic video; have you considered doing a piece on the Children's Crusade? (If you already did, my apologies. I try to watch every Epochs that I can, but I know some slip through the notifications.)
John is the reason there was an invasion by Prince Louis...Philip Agustas son, to invaded England...William Marshall saved the crown of England by supporting Johns son, Henry.
Eleanor makes one last journey to Spain to get her granddaughter to marry Prince Louis to settle the peace with England and France.
So! The Margaret Thatcher of her time!😎
John I married Isabella of Angouleme when she was about 12 yrs old. It was said he spent an inordament amount of time on his couch with his young wife.
Henry II deserved a better wife and kids.
Had Henry continued his partnership with Eleanor, things might have turned out differently. Henry's only flaw was his failure to actually incorporate his family into his decisions. He wanted to control everything and not consider their advice. That is what drove the wedge between him and Eleanor. He wouldn't recognize her power.
John was suppose to have personally rowed Arthur out in a boat and thrown his dead body into the river with a rock to weight it down...cold as hell.
For Bretonnia! For zee LAYdee!
Carl must be confusing Septimania and Aquitania, Septimania is the mediterranean south of France and Aquitania de Atlantic part, part of Aquitania had been Vasconia and had a strong relationship with the Basque culture and the kingdom of Navarre, part of it still does, there was Vasconic languages spoken in Aquitania and of course in Gasconia, there is nothing Italian in Aquitania although obviously there are influences from the Roman empire like in the rest of Southwestern Europe
I wish you guys would have Razorfist over on Epochs to talk the American Civil War or me. Id be glad to red pill Brits on the ACW
Not to split hairs but the troubadour culture, Aquitaine, and the court Eleanor was raised in FAR surpassed anything in the so-called courts in Paris or London - Europe wouldn’t see the sophistication and degree of cultural magnificence again until the later dukes of Burgundy (Valois) (you featured Philip the Good in your illustration Beau, he was always known to wear black, an excessively expensive and arduous color to produce at the time, shown c.1440-50’s prob as he died mid 1460’s)
The backwater of Louis VII’s court was enlivened only by the wealth of religious artifacts, and Henry II’s court??? Good grief!!! The one who came closest to continuing the cultural heritage and tastes of Eleanor was Richard, her favorite son and endowed with Aquitaine - a case could easily be made that Richard, as Duke and king far preferred his Aquitainian lands and duties to England - he was a younger son and had grown up with the idea that his fate and life were ties to his mother’s inheritance. Btw, Louis VII, foolish in the extreme, allowed his divorced wife to retain her inheritance, something the far more cunning Louis XI - the king who reconstituted France’s borders to its ‘former glory’ - would never have been so feeble minded to allow!