Oh My God! Chess rules can get really complex!
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- čas přidán 26. 12. 2022
- The FIDE Handbook covers all the laws of chess. However, there are often cases which are so complex that they are not so easy to foresee. Here's an example from the World Rapid 2022 where Ehsan Ghaem Maghami was playing with the white pieces against Mustafokhuja Khusenkhojaev. It was a rook + bishop vs rook endgame and it went on for a long time. The entire hall was waiting for this game to end so that the next round pairings could come up. However, it was not to be. There was the very important 75-move rule that cropped up in this game, as well as the changing of points in the next round after the pairing is published. These are the kind of rules, which not many people are aware of. Check out the video and let us know your thoughts on the entire incident.
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Video: ChessBase India
#Chess #ChessBaseIndia #Arbiters #wrb2022
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OFCOURSE when there is potential for drama, anish magicly shows up out of nowhere
Anish just spawned out of nowhere🤣
🤣
😂😂
Hahaha 🤣😅
The goat of draw hhhh
Anish lurking in the background thinking this is absolutely hilarious.
8:20 Anish knows the rules but he is not an official, so he better keep quiet.
Anish in the background enjoying the game and the conversations ofc.
The game is automatically a draw at the 75th move. It doesn’t matter what happens after that. That is the arbitration rule.
Yes, that is the responsibility of the arbiters there, especially there are so many of them ( arbiters ). Also, arbiters are there to enforce FAIR PLAY !
The arbiter should have said this:
A red flag fell because of the 75 move rule. The game should have been a draw. However, the game continued despite that the game should have been a draw.
When the game continued the guy stopped playing because he thought it was a three-fold repetition. The guy's claim was rejected. The guy's opponent got 2 mins extra time. Then a new continuation of the game happened . In the 2nd continuation of the game, the guy's time ran out resulting in the guy's opponent winning the chess-game.
However, the game should have been a draw when the 75 moves-rule-flag fell.
But what happens if the opponent mated after 55 or 60 move without claiming a draw?
@@scottwarren4998 the arbiter did say that..
@@Review_Master_of_Movies then it's a legal win
Since the moves are not being recorded by the players in Rapid & Bridge tournaments, it is very likely that the players, esply in the heat of the situation will NOT be able to keep track of completion of 50 moves after the last piece / pawn was exchanged. Therefore there should be a system to warn the players about 5 moves earlier (say, after completion of 45 moves after the last capture) so that the player can rightfully claim the draw. Otherwise, the 50 move rule would remain a useless rule in Rapid & Blitz tournaments. Similarly, there should be warning system for the Arbiters after completion of 70 moves (5 moves before completion of 75 moves) so that they can step in at the right moment to enforce the 75 move rule for a draw. This is just a suggestion.
the software notifies arbiters if 50 moves are made on any of the boards, but they don't bother notifying the players
But somewhere between the 50th and the 75th move, could he have not claimed a draw?
This requires somebody else to be recording the moves, which doesn't happen in every game. It happens here because it's a significant game, but the rules should be the same regardless of significance. Theoretically, I could play the exact same moves, as seen here, with my friend but get a different result. That is bad. I think chess players are clever enough to sort this problem satisfactorily. The 50 moves rule and threefold repetition never seemed like good rules to me.
doesn't chess clock track and show which move it is being played? If so, only the players are to blame, because it would be relatively simple to understand when the 50 move rule would take effect.
@@deeputhomas9887 of course he could, but he didn't, because he didn't kept track of how many moves been played since last capture/pawn push. What I don't understand is why he didn't try to claim it without being sure, because worst case scenario would be some time added to his opponent, which would be trivial anyway
When the arbiters noticed its 73rd move,they could have waited for 2 more moves n stop them after 75th move.They could easily see that 75th move have crossed but they dnt stop them.
They thought the game is over
Win????
Win????
The game has been draw?????
@qealdak2va just shut up u hater.
counting 50 moves playing blitz with 2 seconds on the clock is ridiculous
Bro, you just need to be smart about it... never claim 50 move draw untill you are lost in the next move or a piece captured... then you claim and you are always safe, wrong or right claim, it will be your best way to go around it.
@Scott Warren why are you comment spamming this
The arbiter should have said this:
A red flag fell because of the 75 move rule. The game should have been a draw. However, the game continued despite that the game should have been a draw.
When the game continued the guy stopped playing because he thought it was a three-fold repetition. The guy's claim was rejected. The guy's opponent got 2 mins extra time. Then a new continuation of the game happened . In the 2nd continuation of the game, the guy's time ran out resulting in the guy's opponent winning the chess-game.
However, the game should have been a draw when the 75 moves-rule-flag fell.
Why doesn't the clock have a counter on it ?
@@pl9372 because this would make life too easy
8:28 Whenever draws are being mentioned, Anish is around.
😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
Good one 🤣😂
Props to the Deputy IA for calmly handling the situation and standing ground to the chief IA, because it took some time to realize, that the chessboard did not record the remaining moves after the clocks were stopped; funny though that none of the other IAs stepped in when they saw the situation to be prepared for the 75-move-rule - there was a similiar case in the last round between Nakamura and Harikrsihna in an R+N vs R endgame, and there they did not hesitate
I had similar thoughts.
The deputy IA did well. The chief IA also did well to listen to her and recognize that she was correct. All-in-all, good team work by the arbiters.
It is not a perfect resolution because of the pairing for the next round, but then the player didn't notice the 75 move rule himself either.
So the arbiters were there since the 73rd move, but they didn’t step in at the 75th move. The arbiter should have stepped in immediatly at the 75th move and said it was a draw
They didnt know.
@@truthdetective4534 probably they should have either they should have system build for it
@@OmGupta-xp7re I agree. I shouldn't be too difficult to have the computers send an alert to an arbiter if a 75 move rule situation occurs in a game.
One arbiter saw the player resigned and went to the team that publishes results. The other arbiter noticed it was a 75 move rule cause she had the recording on her laptop. She then let everyone know it was a 75 move. The issue prolonged because they already published the game as 1-0 and its a lot of work to reverse that to 1/2-1/2 and also they were complaining because he had resigned, but that was after the game was a forced draw.
It's explained by the chief arbiter. It was a mistake. Another arbiter noticed it and corrected it.
The guy playing white is so dodgy. He got in a massive argument with a kid in the rapid.
Ha has those vampire eyes as Kasparov.
Both are chess Karens.
True
He is just a mess
Amazingly explained at the end!
Thank you for including that, made the video complete
the ending explained everything except why they rejected claim of a three fold repetition draw. I would like to know why that didn't accept.
Also, the explanation was that the loss was due to time, but there was time left on the clock when he resigned (mate on next move).
@@warblerab2955 That position wasn't repeated three times, that was only the second time the position was reached if i'm seeing the game correctly?
Chessbase india did a amazing cover of this event. Chess come more and more populate thanks to work like you do!
15:32 Discussion start timestamp. Very interesting
Great explanation by the official admin (arb.) in the end, sounded like a correct decision
14:44 A wild Niemann appears!
This makes it another Niemann hype video!
It is so dumb to wait for a player to claim the 50 moves rule in rapid or blitz chess, so idiotic, they really think a player can count the moves while struggling to defend a complex endgame ? Even in classical chess we can see players checking their sheets twice to ensure they can claim a draw for a three fold repetition or with the 50 moves rule...
Shows how absent-minded chess players can be at times, under pressure of course!!! Khusenkhojaev basically made 70+ moves, possibly laser focused on defending and trying to find a situation where the position has been repeated 3 times, so he could claim draw, but completely either forgot about or ignored the 50 move rule!!!
U would imagine that chess players, who can recall even their old games from the top of their head, would be able to "guess" that at least 50 moves have been made when they have actually made as many as 70+!! But, guess not..
Even then, at least at the point of resignation, Khusenkhojaev should claim a 50-move draw rather than just resign, because he has absolutely nothing to lose at that point. If the claim is wrong, then he resigns anyway!! But, he resigned straight away.
(In fact, the optimal solution would to be play it out till opponent has mate-in-1 and then claim 50-move draw, so as to give the claim the best possible chance to succeed, but at the very least, claim draw instead of outright resigning).
And the same situation of resigning instead of just claiming draw was ALSO seen in another game of yesterday, covered on the Chesscom India channel, though that was after exactly 50 moves!!
Win?????
Win????
The game has been draw????
The language barrier is such a huge factor for these events. Feel sorry for those who can't speak English
Instead of preparing for next round.. why is Anish enjoying this conversation so much? 😂
Entertainment mangta hain usko
Where is he? Can you give me timestamp?
@@ishaanshah007 8:39
@@raghavgarg3349 thanks bro 👌
He won't know who his opponent is to prepare against in the next round as the pairings won't be done until this game is finished. (Also he is probably enjoying the entertainment value of this game and all the attention it is attracting from the arbiters!)
Probs to the female arbiter who cared about the players' rights.
9:37 arbiter must declare draw. One move later Black resigns.
12:22 dude , this arbiter :))))))
what happened?
Love this channel. In depth, cool. It's hard to be an arbiter, indeed. Personally I feel much more comfortable watching this in a comfortable chair with my coffee next to me. Phew.
8:56 was bb6 winning straight away
Yes. Kf8 is forced, then Rd8+ Re8, Rxe8#
@@rossmurray6849 Still that would be a draw because checkmate comes at move no. 77 (of white) after no capture.
The worse pairings is a minor difficulty increase and the best compromise for that situation.
that plot twist with the pairings. intersting stuff, very kind interview.
Great content. Thanks for uploading. 👍
FIDE impresses me with their comprehensive rules. Seems to cover every single whacky thing that can occur. eSports in general could learn a lot from FIDE.
theory is one thing, but how well the arbiters know these edge cases is another : ) especially when you're playing in some local tournaments, not a world championship (where you've got elite-level arbiters)
So how is the arbiter going to step in, when it doesn’t appear they are sitting there monitoring the move count in real time using the software?
Some of the rules should probably be updated for Modern chess. Now that we have recorded boards, there's no point in having the system of a claim, is there? Or atleast have a different rule set for DGT board tourneys, for the sake of saving time.
very true. They are still living in stone age. That is what is hindering chess's popularity
Most chess tournaments are not played with expensive dgt boards
I play some FIDE tournaments every year and only few top boards have DGT boards. They are very expensive and system to connect them to computers is complicated if you have 40 or 50 boards on tournament. Usually players solve disputes themselves even without calling arbiter . I sometimes played illegal move ( did not notice the check ) and asked my opponent if she wants to add time to her clock and call arbiter like rule says. She said : "forget it, just play legal move and lets play on ."
Win????
Many tournaments don't have DGT boards. You can't have different rules for some tournaments.
Is this the same guy that also had a conflict with a kid?
With the kid, i actually defend the guy, but after this I don't know anymore.
Same happened to me, I thought he was honest. He turned out to be a crooked opportunist who just wanted to take advantage of his opponent's language barrier.
The Christmas Music builds the drama.
As an arbiter i wanna say there were two rules happened
1.The 75 moves with out capture any piece
2. The resign
So the arbiter ask what happened first .. it's the 75 rule so he claimed the draw
He didn't resign, he timed out.
@@D.U.D.E- No, he had 2 or 3 seconds left on the clock when he resigned (see 9:37).
Actually the guy lost on time when the same game continued. Therefore it wasn't a draw.
@@scottwarren4998 Actually, he resigned because his position was lost in next move of white. Time is secondary reason as he also looked at the clock. But as explained in the video, the game was already a draw due to 75 move rule.
In the end, game is actually a draw.
without any captures nor a pawn move, to be precise (because pawn moves, just like captures, are irreversible)
So, did the rules say that arbiter MUST or CAN force the game to a draw after 75 moves without exchange?
The rules say "MUST". To be more precise, the rules say "after 75 moves, the game is a draw." So you can translate that to "the arbiter MUST force the game to a draw"
@@DexM47 I read that as it being a draw regardless of what the arbiter says.
After 75 moves completed wether the player won or the other player lost the game will be draw no matter what. Checkmate or flagged it doesn't matter.
If the rules said "CAN" the implementation of the rules would become arbitrary.
ah okay thanks guys, I asked this because the caption says "CAN"
Ehsan Ghaem Maghami tried to steal a point in an unsporting way - A fitting end.
Poetic justice, White was being far less than sporting even if keeping within the rules through forceful arguments, and then got a tough paring for his next round and his undeserved win did not register in any case due to the 75 rule. This goes to show that the rules are one thing, but sportsmanship is quite another. You forgo being sporting at your own peril - sooner or later what goes around comes around!
Stop trying to make some divine conclusions. A professional chessplayer has to learn the rules and laws properly and atleast speak basic english to be able to defend his rights. Nobody owes you anything and white did nothing wrong here so instead of relying on "poetic justice" one must educate himself.
@@mehdimehdikhani5899 Everything you've said is correct but unfortunately completely misses the point about sportsmanship. Interested to know your views on how the spirit of sportsmanship is different from the letter of the rules.
@@apprenchess No I didn't miss your point. You just throw this vague word sportsmanship out there as if white has done anything wrong. The burden is on you to show what white has done to violate sportsmanship. It seems like you are asking for free meals and when you don't receive them, you get angry and throw these random words like sportsmanship and poetic justice at people.
@@mehdimehdikhani5899 So, in your opinion, does sportsmanship have any role in chess? And if so, what do you understand by the terms sporting behaviour and/or sportsmanship?
@@apprenchess I don't even know what you mean by sportsmanship. If you cheat or you are rude or don't respect the rules, that's bad sportsmanship. And white player did none of those. He argued to make sure his rights are not violated. It is up to the arbiters to make the right decisions. If by good sportsmanship you mean someone goes out of his way to be kind to you then that completely depends on that person to make such an act of kindness. What do you want from me? Am i supposed to say lets agree to a draw because you have suffered enough? Am i supposed to remember for you 50 moves rule and kindly claim a draw for you? I don't owe you a free meal. If I give it to you be grateful otherwise if I don't give it to you, when something bad happens to me don't go on a moralistic rant about poetic justice and how I deserved that to happen to me because I didn't give you a free meal. White player was screwed because the arbiters messed up and now you are blaming the victim and you think punishment was served. Have a good day.
Very informative video . Thanks
Sometimes, rules can be inconvenient, specially if its against us.
11:12 the Deputy Chief goes to confirm the 75 moves.
Anish sinisterly smirking in the back then leaves immediately when the arbiter ask for a Russian translator, only to pop back in once they got a translator 😂
I’m just wondering, why don’t they have a software that detects things like 3 folds repetitions or 75 no-capture-moves, and just automatically stop players from playing. Or does one of the two players have to declare a draw in order for the rule to take effect?
Between 50&75 moves, either player has the option to declare a draw, after 75 it's a mandatory draw
Improper draw claim (3fold repetition) 8:45 opponent receives additional time.
Tip: Guys, never claim 50 move draw untill you are lost in the next move or a piece captured... then you claim and you are always safe, wrong or right claim, it will be your best way to go around it.
I love the Christmas carols playing in the background. Slightly surreal.
5:11
The drawish Giri was smiling 😅
The king of draw of all time supported the three fold reputation and any position hold to the draw😀
I love three fold repetition. Being able to force a draw from a lost position is sweeter than any victory.
11:10 Amidst all the drama and tension, the soothing "Silent Night" goes off in the background. Irony, I guess!
Anish will become chief Arbiter once he retired... 😄
Claim that after opponents move position repeated 3x was correct, it’s already repeated after Iranian player move 3x. But Iranian played card that Uzbek player had to announce his intention to move and then position will be repeated. Uzbek player didn’t have to announce his intention to repeat. Position repeated after Iranian player move.
These are GM level arbiters😂
Arbiter ☕
DGT clocks are way outdated, both electronic boards and the clock itself. Clock should at least show move count, so that players may reference current move count from last capture.
The players can check that by pressing two button but its quite distracting
It doesn't seem like the software can search for duplicate positions.
That was a draw, he was bullied into conceding.
8:56 Bb6 is checkmate. how is this draw ?
@@deathadder4999 It is already 75 moves, no point to play Bb6 anymore.
I sometimes hate chess. A lot of chess players are arrogant and don't play the gentlemen's game. I remember a true story in a chess club where a girl beat all the players and every player she beat they had an excuse like they didn't sleep well or they were sick
Grandmasters love a good rook&bishop vs rook endgame
75 moves after last capture the game ends. Whatever is done after that is not part of the game. that's my take on this
9.6 If one or both of the following occur(s) then the game is drawn:
9.6.1 the same position has appeared, as in 9.2.2 at least five times.
9.6.2 any series of at least 75 moves have been made by each player without the movement of any pawn and without any capture. If the last move resulted in checkmate, that shall take precedence.
Chess arbiters do seem to have a knack for incompetence.
What if the old man lost on time after 76 move rule?Is it still considered a draw?
The arbiters were busy photo bombing Magnus and co 'look wife it's me!'
good coverage
When the player tried to resign, the game already was over, it had ended in a draw. Therefor, the resignation was void, the game is a draw.
isn't it a draw anyway? either by repetition or by 75 moves no capture?
0:13 that was an amazing high-iq fake play. He faked the guy into thinking he's going ke4 but he went ke5 instead.
On several occasions the arbitrage of this tournament was ridiculously poor.
It was not complex at all and it's the arbiter's fault to not stop it at 75 since they have freaking computers. Furthermore, he has a legit claim for giving him 1 full point and then reducing it. Affecting the pairings.
lmbo when I see Anish smiling he must of been watching from the distance
Sounds like Christmas music is being played in the background around around the 11:20 minute mark, Silent Night.
Why didn’t the gm claim 50 moves when threefold was denied or ask how many moves are over ?
Time to play: how many arbiters does it take to draw a game.
so, whats the final score? 0,5-0,5?
So what was the result at the end he won or later it was just draw??
Draw
Win?????
Win???
@@Gdyjbbct no, draw ====
@@Gdyjbbct =
Chessbase India has been fantastic bringing such missable moments for ppl away from the scene....thanks for that.
Is it possible sagar to do a video on the most important chess rules (outside of the basic ones) players must know which will help during such Grey situations?
For ex , black just uttered some wrong rule, had it been 50 move rule, he would not have been required to go through this stress and would have been easy going with both players for the next round (without pairing complexity as well).
" it's always better to ask "
why is he looking like sergey karyakin in his childhood
13:33 you see neimann behind!
Was this dude planning to play forever in a dead drawn game?
The final position @9:41 is won for white - black can only delay mate on the back rank by giving up his rook.
Maybe 🤣
@@littleblackcat2273 Doesn't matter. If not for that he would have played it for hours.
@@jacksonparker3671 Whilst KRB v KR may be a theoretical draw with perfect play from both sides, the player with the extra material most definitely should play on as there are practical winning chances and it is easy for the opponent to make a mistake (as in this game).
@@mrbeanchess1439 No maybe about it, that's why he resigned. Can you find a way out of the threat of Rf8 mate?
¿ Como se llama el jugador que conduce las piezas blancas?...Parece que no es primera vez que crea este tipo de conflictos...
Ver partida con nlkolay averin...¡¡¡ En este mismo campeonato mundial de rapidas y blitz!!!...
Am I missing something or does white miss an opportunity to win at about 03:16 by King to D7 mate? His King would be protected by the castle on F7. I'm a bit rusty so might be wrong.
But the opponents king covers d7. wouldn't That make Kd7 an illegal move?
@@Mr_Doogz Ah yes silly me. I forgot a king can't move into check even if protected.
9:05 is that mate in two? Bishop check, king force to its right, then rook check. Even rook block, white rook can take it, being supported by bishop???
But he moved the rook instead.
yeah at around 3:15 white also missed a mate in 10
You're right - and that dude is a grandmaster!
@@alyx1a I'll take your word for it. Seems black didn't know the basic Cochrane defence. The old soviet masters must be turning in their graves.
What's the point in the boards having chips in them if they aren't programmed to alert when a forced draw is available...
Anish .. The curious cat
Do the arbiters have the power to reverse the decision when they found out about the 50/ 75 move rules that has been consumed even after resignation?
Forced draw after 75 moves without capture or pawn move, even if arbiter isn't intervening immediately. Continued play is meaningless, even with a players resignation. Game is still a forced draw.
I lowkey wished this blue shirt guy throw somekind of a gesture to that broom-haired looking guy.
5:15 Vanish Giri
Win ????
nothing better than COTB
Ha, Anish in the back with a grin.
Also is your microphone underwater? Why does it sound so bad?
Only solution for this remove sec increment
meanwhile Anish enjoying the drama
Can they strip them off their arbiter titles? bunchamorons
Atleast they just need to check 150 moves...
Arbiters need to stand their ground and not allow to get bossed around by the players.
Edit:
Arbiters need to realize that most chess players are soft. Hit them with a WARNING and they will be back in their shell. Trust me.
Even in the last position of forced mate, can he claim a draw instead of resigning or is it only arbiter's right to intervene?
He could have claimed a draw from the 50th move but after 75 it's the arbiter's responsibility to intervene, which is mandatory
When Khusenkhojaev stopped the clock, he first claimed 3x position rule, but after that, he also asked how many moves were done after the last action move. Players don't have the possibility to count moves in such a game. The stopped clock was the right time to get that information, but a stupid old man said you can not claim that. Why?
I was also confused at first .. but how did I understand, according to the rules, playing most often on one issue, and if he received a penalty, then more often on another issue, maybe only the next time. for example, if the guy squeezed the clock again, already about the 50-move rule
Abiters are not allowed to gives informations about number of moves, this are the regulation.
Btw, he should just have to claim for a draw for 50 moves but he dosen't.
Are they using chessbase 17
Even a world championship tournament of chess looks as random and ill managed as my school's annual sports events. Girl roaming with a laptop screen. Players are all together discussing and trying to clear the air of uncertainty.
Chess....going into a difficult place at the moment.
But what happens if the opponent mated after 55 or 60 move without claiming a draw?
then it's a win, because the 50-moves rule only works if the player claims it. it's optional, and can't be invoked retrospectively.
how it happened:
no I will argue about what is exactly in the rule book even though the intent of the rules and what is fair is clear... I will demand a technical win that is unfair to my opponent.
how it should have happened:
oh we were drawn but some confusion of the rules resulted in us not realizing it right away?
okay, it's a draw.