Is the GR86 a half-price Porsche?
Vložit
- čas přidán 7. 07. 2024
- Is the Toyota GR86 (or the Subaru BRZ) a half-price Porsche? That’s what I wanted to know when a generous viewer recently let me take his GR86 for a drive in the mountains.
I came away feeling that if you've always wanted a Porsche Cayman or Boxster but don't have the budget for one, the Toyota GR86 might be the car for you. Compared to the base 987 and 981 Cayman, it's not far down on power, and now that its looks have had a makeover, it's a serious option in the looks department, too.
***
Get occasional emails from me, "One More Thing":
www.peterfritzphoto.com/one-m...
If you like my work, why not shout me a coffee?
buymeacoffee.com/petefritz
4 questions to ask before each photo (free PDF):
peterfritzphoto.com/4-questions/
My website:
peterfritzphoto.com
Gear used or mentioned at the time of recording:
Hasselblad X2D 100C: geni.us/id5Ub7
Hasselblad XCD 45 P Lens: geni.us/Qg9nb
Hasselblad XCD 80 1.9 Lens: geni.us/nkcW4
Peipro L-Bracket for X2D: geni.us/peipro-x2d
TTArtisan 90mm f/1.25 Lens: geni.us/pBf1Xw
Canon EOS R6 MKII: geni.us/Canon-R6-MK-II
Canon RF 24-70: geni.us/Canon-RF24-70
Sigma EF 35mm 1.4: geni.us/sigma-35
Canon RF 50 1.8: geni.us/Canon-RF-50mm
DJI Pocket 3: geni.us/dji-pocket-3
DJI Osmo Action 4: geni.us/DJI-Action-4
Insta360 GO 3: geni.us/insta360-go-three
Insta360 GO 2: geni.us/insta360-GO2
DJI Air 3 Combo: geni.us/DJI-Air3-Combo
Peak Design Travel Tripod: geni.us/PD-tripod-carbon
Freewell Real Travel Tripod: geni.us/ysVy
iFootage TC9 Carbon Tripod: geni.us/iFootageTC9
K&F Concept Nano-X Polarizing Filter: geni.us/AA3C4
Lowepro BP 550 AW II Bag: geni.us/Low-Pro-BP550AW
DJI Wireless Field Mic: geni.us/DJI-Mi
Tascam X6 32-Bit Field Recorder: geni.us/tascamx6
Zoom H1 Essential 32-Bit Recorder: geni.us/eBqF
Zoom F3 32-Bit Recorder: geni.us/zoom-f3-recorder
Canon DM-E1D Stereo Microphone: geni.us/DM-E1D
Rode Procaster Studio Mic: geni.us/rode-procast
RODE NTG2 Microphone: geni.us/Rode-NTG2-Shotgun-Mic
The music I use (free trial of Epidemic Sound)
share.epidemicsound.com/her46e
******
Please note that as an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Since driving the 86, I’ve learned about the oil pickup issue (and subsequent engine seizures) due to the sealant used in the Subaru engine’s construction. It’s definitely a wart on an otherwise great package, and it kinda makes my ‘legendary Toyota reliability’ statement questionable…
I think the oil pick up sealant issue was a red herring. I thought someone (maybe Subaru themselves) said the issue is a certain oil channel is only on one side of the engine and that the failures are almost exclusively occurring in right hand corners due to oil starvation.
Found a link to some research, quick run down of what's occurring, also effects gen1, just not as severe.
"TL;DR. We collected oil pressure data from 2 gen2 and 1 gen1 car. We observed all three car has oil pressure drop in certain right hand corners and the drop will be worsen if combined with elevation changes. Overall gen1 has a bit better oil pressure in same scenario than gen2 and it could explain why most gen1 owner feels the engine is very robust after frequent track drivings while we already seen quite a few engine blow ups in gen2."
@@hyperbomb02 Yes, I read similar material. It only takes one small thing to screw up an engine or gearbox - like the soft metal used in the head bolts on early Benz 6.2-litre V8s.
What's the alternative Toyota to buy?
@@spookytook There really aren’t any. The best alternative sports car is definitely the MX5. Otherwise, a 987 Cayman or maybe even a Nissan 370Z.
Total BS
As a car enthusiast, I'm 23 and I can't afford any car over 40k. The moment I learnt the 86 was going to get another release here in Spain I went to my Toyota dealership to have them reserve one. Hopefully I'll update this comment with my first impressions about it :D
Please Update us, i'm super interested!
@@styx762 will do! The announcement is supposed to happen between next week and the one after (the GR Cup is here in Spain in the middle of May), so i'll be here soon
Hope you get it! I got one about a month ago and I love it. I’m excited for you
I’m from Canada, taking one for a test drive this Saturday. So excited.
@@bigrednolaccount6767don't expect a rocket ship. instead, focus on the senses/feel/connectedness. don't worry about loudness, don't worry about the infotainment. many things on the car can be changed, but don't need to be (although a trans mount and bushings will help). it is a wonderful platform to help you enjoy driving.
Gave my 911 to my brother as I got the GR. Perfect car, no bullshit, no brand praising, no need for high speed, no massive bills doing service or customization, only downside is the sound. GR every day. Cheers from Germany.
Haha! Now that’s something you don’t read every day!
I had both the Boxster 1st for 4 years a 967 and then the GR86 and honestly I enjoyed the GR86 more, it’s fast enough to keep you entertained and engaged. Hence the popularity, Rey easy to tune and easy to live with. Cheers from Oz 🇦🇺🏁
The 86 and BRZ definitely make a lot of sense.
Agreed
718 cayman base and GR86 here, it's half the price but better🫡 however I end up spending a lot of money on the 86 whenever my paycheck hits so... The cost of ownership is really high 😂
@@slipknotneverforget3365 LOL!
Should I finance or lease the GR86?
How you are able to describe the way you absorb a car into every inch of your all your senses is quite fascinating! I would say it's the ultimate joy ride for you, Peter!
What a nice thing to say. Thanks, Juanita. 💙
The drone shot from above shooting the Porsche was absolutely sensational. Phenomenal cinematography, very well made video. Seriously one of the best non-pro reviews I’ve seen
Thank you, mate - I really appreciate that. There's more of that footage in this video: czcams.com/video/R7DFA4c940w/video.htmlsi=rtW3xe8j0fyljT8M.
First time seeing something from this channel and I have to say I love the content - quality shots and very mature narrative without unnecessary screaming and laughing. Great video!
Thank you!
Beautiful photos and great video. 30,000km on my gr86 love driving it every single time.
Awesome mate, love how knowledgeable and passionate you’re about cars and the presentation is great as always! Have an amazing week !!
Thanks, Pete. You too!
I have a 981 GT4 and a GR86. I love my GT4 but Ill candidly admit that the 86 is more fun in a lot of ways. Sometimes Porsches are too serious and too clinical. The 86 is more playful and doesnt break the bank when it comes to consumables.
Sounds like the 86 is a fun daily / project build . Seems Like a toy car so much u can do to it ! Ima have to check this out vs a mx5 being 6’3 lets see which is best for comfort and engagement as my civic si
@@Jmarzx Its such a simple platform and a joy to work on! 6'3 will definitely be tight especially if youre tracking the car with a helmet. But in terms of pure engagement, its significantly ahead of a Civic SI!
Agree. My BRZ vs 718 Spyder. BRZ is seriously a lot more fun for the street. Performance maybe not.
going flat out on an 86 and not going 100 is a plus for the streets we drive today. a fast car will be too boring to drive cause you'll be in the mid power band before it even reaches 100mph when you wanna go full out
@@PrivilegeYT Ya, to be clear the 981 GT4 is still a near PERFECT drivers car. Its not overwhelmingly fast so you can still extract the performance on the street. The downside is that the chassis feels most alive when youre really pushing it. So at lower speeds, it feels extremely boring. The 86 gives more when doing less if that makes sense. That said, the sound of the 3.8 flat 6 is incredible and a damn near religious experience.
As always, very cool shots, Peter.
Thank you, mate. 👍
I'm a 2022 BRZ owner and first time channel viewer. I was also a serious amateur photographer and someone on their third career -- so your channel hits the trifecta! Great coverage of a comparison that I've wondered about, so your perspective is very helpful. Thanks for the excellent footage and meaningful insights.
Thank you, David - that’s very generous. 👍
@@PETERFRITZPHOTO I mainly autocrossed the BRZ for two years but took it on a 1,700-mile road trip -- and loved it. The Porsche comparison is interesting due to wondering what my next car might be.
@@aroundomaha Sounds utterly wonderful.
Amazing perspective for this car review and the presentation style with the photo intermission felt really fresh. Toyota 86 really is the best handling car under a Porsche for non Porsche money. One thing that didn't get mentioned beyond the original price tag was the Lowe ownership costs. I know here in Canada an oil change costs about $80 for the 86 vs about 5-600 from what I hear for the Porsche. then add tyres and anything else and you get to keep allot of money to spend on performance upgrades. That Porsche just sounds heavenly however.
Thank you for this generous comment. You make a good point re the ongoing costs, and yes, the Porsche can be pricey. Mind you, I've saved thousands already during my 18 months of Boxster ownership by going outside the dealership for things like brakes, tyres, battery, suspension fitting, and so on.
It was nice to hear a comparison from a Porsche owner that enjoys driving as well. Sweet pictures by the way 🙌🏽😃
Thanks, mate. 👍
Very good review, so true the Porsche is more serious and in every way but the cost has me driving my BRZ and enjoying every mile. I do love its looks, it’s so comfortable and fills my needs for fun at over half the cost.
Smart choice, Tony. 👍
Looking good Peter 👍
Thanks, Stuart. 👍
Great video. Thanks! Good music too.
Thanks, Sean!
Very nice presentation. I liked the topographical map backdrop you used during the Hasselblad ‘interlude’. Yours is one of the better YT perspectives I’ve viewed on the GR86…well done!
Thank you! You must be almost due to receive your new car, yes?
@@PETERFRITZPHOTO yes, my GTS 4.0 just started production last week. I’m doing Euro delivery, so I expect I’ll be picking up in June. Exciting times!
@@jdwxflyer Wonderful. Exciting!
@@PETERFRITZPHOTO seems like you and I will have a couple of the last great Boxster. I hear ICE cars will be going away due to a cybersecurity issue? Yours is looking great as always. Enjoy!
@@jdwxflyer Indeed. The cyber security issue only affects EU cars at present. I guess we'll see what happens elsewhere, but either way, I'll only ever sell this Boxster for another ICE Boxster!
Thoughtful video! I just sold my BGTS4.0 and bought a 2024 BRZ. I loved the Boxster (more so with a Kline exhaust, which made the car for me). But the maintenance costs were high, and they wanted over $7k to extend the warranty 4 years. And, it was unclear what they would cover with the aftermarket exhaust on. Losing an engine would cost more than the BRZ. I really enjoy the BRZ, but agree that in the sound and specialness, it’s on another level. Thanks! Also, loved the photos and will watch your vid on that.
Thank you, Chris. Mine had no warranty when I purchased it, and I’m okay with that. I’ve owned about 30 cars, and driven most of them hard. I’ve never had an engine failure, except for a blown head gasket on my very first car 38 years ago. I thrashed the hell out my Benz E430, and now, with 350,000 km on it, my brother-in-law owns it and drives it to and from work each day. Still pulls like a train. Porsche’s flat sixes and PDK from 2009 onwards are pretty bulletproof.
I love the photos and I’m getting the GR86 in any case. Thanks for the review though 😊
Thanks, Ondrej.
Nice presentation with great photography Peter. I have owned 3 Porsche 911’s, a Boxster, Cayman and now a 718 GT4. I obviously love Porsche but have had four Toyotas and loved them as well.
Which brings me to the GR86. There’s something special about having a simple, low cost car to play with on the winding roads, track days or an autocross. I have read and watched many reviews on this car and so far, am impressed.
It’s seems the RTV issues have been mitigated with the modified oil pick up process and hopefully the oil pressure starvation which reportedly occurs on sweeping right turns during high performance driving on a track will be resolved soon.
Thanks again. This is a sweet sports car.
Thanks a lot for chiming in, Patrick, and I agree with your sentiments. You own the ultimate driver's car, that's for sure!
MotoIQ did a superb overview of Subi engines and why they blow up. It basically comes down to some of the basic engineering principles of how they mass-produced a flat four. If you're aggressively tracking the car you might consider a different oil pan and keeping the PCV valve maintained religiously as they tend to burn more oil due to the higher crankcase pressures. Granted they were talki about the EJ but probably holds true for the F series engines as well.
Lovely photos
Thank you.
So, you are a professional photographer. Awesome pictures, I really loved them.
Thank you. 🙏
I have a 2023 GR86. I've never driven a Porsche, so I appreciate your perspective. I'm glad to hear that it's in the same conversation as a Cayman. There's no way in hell I could afford that.
You've got yourself a great car, Ian.
I am a fellow Photographer and Car Lover and let me tell you, when it comes to cars (And many other things in life) less truly is more
And therefore, I am so glad to see Toyota producing the 86, basically a Porsche that people can afford, and so I am really excited by not just the 86 but other Japanese cars like the Civic Type R, these are splendid cars and I think even if I was a millionaire I would still buy my Type Rs and my 86s just to enjoy them everywhere. ❤️
Wondeful video! ❤️
Good on you, Bryan, and thanks for dropping by! And I completely agree with your sentiments.
Own a 2014 white BRZ from new here in Sydney. Keeper for life in my case. It has more than enough power stock to be wildly entertaining without getting into trouble. So much after market support that its like playing with Lego.
Great video and photography!
Haha - I like that: “like playing with Lego.” Thanks, Mimo.
Good stuff Pete! I’m in.
Had a Cayman S... traded it for a BRZ. Lots of track days on both. The BRZ is the real track dog. More reliable, more fun, more personality compared to the clinical feeling S.
Im in the UK and having come from NC MX5's as a daily I skipped the ND and 13 months ago received my GR86 a year after my order went in!!, 17,000 miles later I absolutely love it, Ive put some Race Gold Oz Ultras on and an HKS axle back and it really looks and sounds the part now...I do a bit of photography to and appreciate very much your work and review,.
That sounds like sports care perfection! The OZs in Race Gold would look fabulous. Thanks for watching, Paul.
I have a GR86 and concur with most of your observations. I love mine
Good to hear. Thanks for sharing. 👍
Own 2 Porsches and 2 GR86s. GR86 is my go-to weekend/race car. They are cheap, reliable, easy to modify, easy to work on, great driver cars.
Sounds wonderful!
And the most important thing (if you have money) - you don't have to wait years to get your car. :)
Why two of the same cars (GR86) ? Left one stock and other modded?
@JasonISF
Both of them are special editions cars: 10 years special edition and the TRUENO edition. And yes, one of the moded more than another.
Driving perfection achieved
I was choosing between the ND2 MX5 & used Cayman when they did 2 generation of the twins. The Miata was most fun but not enough room. The Porsche was the best car but very serious & upkeep costs were a factor. The BRZ was the Goldilocks car. I especially love that she is playful in nature. The twins want to have fun but be as practical daily car. Plus is the cheapest option. Will buy another if anything happens & I’ve never said that before
Perfectly said. 👍
Just got my 86 a few days ago. Bare bones, 2024, Trueno blue, 6-speed manual. I hadn't driven a true, bare bones, sports car since my 1980 MGB around 20 years ago and it was like riding a bike. There are only 2 real NEW "sports cars" in the 30K price range and the Miata can't fit my golf bag (while the 86 easily has room for 3 bags with the back seats down). I haven't even broken it in yet (keeping revs under 4k for around 500 miles or so) and I'm having an absolute blast.
I'm no snob. I've never paid more than $15k for a car until now. This is my first truly new car at $32k out the door. I've had a used 1980 MGB, a used 2001 Isuzu Trooper (which I miss dearly), and a used 2007 Chevy Cobalt that I got from Enterprise in 08 for like 10k that has an rock solid engine (150k+ miles with nothing but routine maintenance and still going strong).
The wheels haven't fallen off the Cobalt yet, but I needed a sports car. I finally had the money for something reasonably "nice" and after driving the GR86 a couple of times I was sold. It is exactly what I needed to feel alive again.
You’re right. Congratulations! 👍
Fair assessment. As it happens, I owned a 981 boxster s and a gr86 concurrently. As mine was an S spec, the power gap was fairly significant (315 hp & 266 ft-lbs torque vs 228 and 184 respectively for the Toyota), while the curb weight was not (2,910 for the 981 vs 2,834 for the Toyota)….and yet I didn’t find the Porsche to be significantly more capable. It’s more serious - yes - and it has higher limits…..but the perception of speed isn’t light years different. Glad you used playful as an adjective for the gr86 because that’s where I believe it has an advantage over the Porsche. I ended up selling the boxster and bought an ND2 to go along with my gr86. The net effect was going from two cars costing me a total of about $77k usd to two cars costing about $64k usd. The nd2 is also a 3 model year old car vs an 11 year old Porsche - which will have more costly maintenance bills in the future.
I care very little about the cache surrounding Porsche so that doesn’t drive my purchase decisions. If the goal is driver engagement and fun, my fleet is more suited to my needs, costs less and got younger to boot.
That all makes perfect sense to me. 👍
I have a GR86 and an ND (1) MX5 as well. Here in Australia I can own both for less then the cost of an over 10 year old Cayman. I've driven 987 generation Boxster and Cayman (fantastic) but don't feel I'm missing out.
@@troynewton5833 Excellent. Both great cars, for sure.
@12:23 "Toyoya's legendary bulletproof reliability"???
The GR is essentially a Subaru tho! 😂
Good point - I should have said Subaru reliability, although Subaru hasn’t been without problems…
It’s a good bit of both. It not a “Subaru with. Toyota badge on it”. Hear that a lot. TheD4S fuel injection is 100% Toyota. The transmission is Aisin, Toyotas main transmission source. The Torsen diff has Toyota stamped right on it. The boxer engine, absolutely Subaru..Made on a Subaru assembly line. It more Subaru than Toyota.But it is definitely a fair bit Toyota as well
but the twins have Toyota's D-4S dual injector (port & direct) set up. you won't get carbon build up on the intake valves common on direct injection only engines. So even though both cars are a majority Subaru, Toyota helped where it counted.......
You gonna have to go test drive the new Trueno edition GR86
I went from a 718 Spyder to a GR86... on paper the Spyder was my dream car but in reality I never fell in love with it. The Spyder was great on track (with some modifications to camber and brakes) but so is the GR86 and is more enjoyable on street due to lower weight and can rev it out more (with AWE touring exhaust).
Yep - I totally get it.
Also an Aussie and got myself the 2nd Gen Subaru BRZ since the GR86 was about 7k more because Toyota Australia is greedy. Its not perfect out of the box like a Cayman/Boxster but it only takes around 10k to get it just right.
Replacing the exhaust and unplugging the fake engine noise made a very big difference to the feel of the car.
Also just upgrading the tyres to Michelin Pilot Sport 4S and getting slightly wider tyres made a big difference to the grip and handling of the car. You can launch it from stand still without spinning the wheels unlike stock. It also keeps its character and slides around just like stock but you feel more confident with it since you can just grip and power out of a slide.
Finally some little driver mods like weighted shift knob, short shifter, clutch spring replacement, brake pads as driver preference.
No coil overs needed since it rides and handles very nicely already, but it would look nice lowered.
Also none of these mods voids the warranty which let me really go hard on it and not be scared of emptying my wallet when something breaks. With a Porsche, I would be scared to drive so freely since Porsche parts and labour are not cheap and no warranty.
Sounds perfect. I have no qualms about driving my Boxster hard, though. I figure it's built for that kind of thing! 🙂
When I had my gen 1 BRZ, I found coilovers although made it corner faster, took away a lot of the fun (even on 215s) and was much harder to get the rear out in the dry. Found the best balance was just stock struts but upgraded front and rear sway bars.
@@JasonISF Suspension is definitely a science AND an art. It's one of the things I most want to get right on every car I own.
First off amazing photos. I haven't owned a GR86, but I did own a 2014 BRZ for almost 5 years. They're a fun and great platform which I got to exploit with two track days, one hill climb event and two skid pan days, during my ownership. I found though coilovers made the car corner faster and feel much more planted, the factory playfulness was taken away, so I found just keeping the struts standard, with upgraded sway bars front and rear, basically eliminated any body roll, but at the same time I could still kick the back out into oversteer at sane speeds for fun. Probably the motor was the biggest let down of the package, as it had the infamous 'torque dip' around 3-4.5 k rpm it would feel sluggish and even though a tune and aftermarket headers helped significantly, it was still there in the background. Though, it was a fairly rapid car in the hills if you kept the revs between 5-7k rpm. IF toyota brings out the next one with the motor out of the GR Yaris/Corolla I'll be there with a deposit faster than the speed of light.
That sounds like a smart solution re the suspension setup. I never drove the earlier model with the torque dip, but I certainly read a lot about it! If they put the GR Yaris/Corolla motor in there, I reckon I'll want one, too!
looks like a beautiful day for driving. Your Boxter is truly more serious.
It was!
Hi Peter, I just received the evcX module for the 981 Cayman and was wondering if you had any pre-install instructions that the pamphlet doesn't address; such as disconnect batt (or not), key fog distance/time? I installed this module on my 21 Ram diesel and it works wonders :)
Thank you, and have a great day!
@@kenle3419 I’m afraid not, no. I think I just followed the instructions included with the unit, and that was it.
Hi Peter, Toyota are really upping their game. I have a few wee things and just got the GR Yaris……B road animal.
What watch are you wearing. I’m a part time watch dealer and enthusiast besides a car and motorcycle nut!!
Great channel
Thanks, Gary! The GR Yaris looks bloody cool on the road - I love that thing. Love bikes, too. The watch is a Christopher Ward C60 Trident Pro 300.
Nice mate, former BRZ and MR2 owner here. Looking to getting a GRY but can't decide whether to go for the gen 1 or the 'evolved' new one if the bank allows..
@@JasonISF I saw the thumbnail of the MR2 on your channel page. I LOVE the old MR2, and have fond memories racing one of those, when new, up the Black Spur in the middle of the night!
My main car is a Cayman GTS and when I drove the GR86 I was surprised the feel but it felt underpowered and far less planted.
As an entry level sports car, I think it’s great, and with a few tasteful mods, it could be awesome. But it’s definitely not the equal of the Cayman GTS.
would love a comparison once the GR86 has some mods on it, sounds like he would benefit from brake pads and fluid upgrade.
I agree. 👍
I have a gr86 here in Bahrain. I am 43 years old and this is my first sports car. While a Porsche boxster 4.0 Gts is definitely an aspiration for the driving dynamics and sound ( I am not worried about status) I won’t consider selling my gr86 unless I test drive a gts 4.0 and am fully happy with the gearbox feel. Gr86 has given me more smiles per dollar than any car I have ever owned
Great review Peter. I know you mentioned you had an MX5, if the new GR86 was out when you purchased your Miata, would you have gone for this over it?
Thank you. Probably not, no. I owned an NA MX5 in ‘93, and really wanted that feeling again. Plus, when the weather is right, a roofless sports car in the mountains is divine.
All very interesting. I've owned my BRZ since new in February 23 and love it more every day.
As much as I'd love a Porsche and can afford one I cannot justify the price. As you say all i'd really be buying is brand status and realising a childhood dream and I KNOW my licence is going to end up suspended very soon thereafter.
I even looked at a new Nissan Z a couple of weeks ago and what would that do better? Not much really for so much more money.
The BRZ and GR86 concept is just such an amazingly good value proposition for us mere mortals that have to prioritise what they can do with their money that you really can't go wrong.
A set of coilovers, exhaust and yeah, a decent sound system upgrade and the damn thing is perfect.
Yep - you summed it up pretty well. That said, some people (like myself), drive a Boxster or Cayman because they do look, drive, and feel pretty special. But brand new, they’re too pricey for me to justify. Used, though - well worth the money. 👍
I love mines so much. Although i could have gotten a stock Cayman with the money i spent so far... $3k in PPF, $2k Wing, $1.4k coils, $1.3k wheels and tires.
Good for you. They’re a great car. 👍🙂
Hey Peter! Love how you went in depth with this video! I am quite curious though, how would you compare the ND MX5 and GR86 in your experiences? on how it goes with mountain roads, how it handles so on and so forth, I've been considering either one and would greatly appreciate your input. Thanks!
Thank you. The MX5 offers a few things the 86 doesn’t - like a million stars overhead, the best manual gearbox feel outside of Porsche and NSX, and lineage that stretches back to 1989. The 86 offers superior practicality, a larger on-road presence, and more room in the cabin. They both handle with a real rearward bias, with the 86 more prone to oversteer than the MX5. For many, the MX5 is simply too small, or too impractical to live with. With MCA coil-overs, strut braces, and a sports muffler, my MX5 was absolute driving heaven. I suspect that with similar treatment, the 86 would be the same.
great video peter! where's this road in mount macedon?!
Also if you ever want to drive a lower and wide version if this car , let me know!
Thank you - tempting. Which part of the video? We used a few roads in this video.
Yes, Just bought a 2024 BRZ that was sitting in the local Subaru showroom. I've had 5 modern N/A Porsches and yes this is Porsche-light for a third of the price in the USA. I wanted the Trueno GR86 and almost closed on that but couldn't get one delivered to my house so I passed. I had the BRZ delivered to my door and did the deal over the internet and saved about 7k. Safer than a Porsche And let's face it, Porsches have gotten Precious. And that makes them a little less fun IMHO.
I get it. And that’s what also makes the MX5 so special.
I've had a BRZ I'm now on an FL5. The BRZ is brilliant but the comment that the Boxster is more "serious" rings to me. What makes the BRZ brilliant is its a playful drive it like you stole it kind of performance car. It's partly silly, when you move on to more "serious" cars you lose a playfulness that really does dominant the driving experience all the way up until you leave 9/10 and go to 10/10.
Very true. Playfulness is definitely underrated.
I own a BRZ 2nd gen, its all the car I need with wheels and exhaust without the porsche upkeep.
I totally get it. 👍
I tried the GR86 and really wanted to love it... but thought the sound was like a 90s videogame, and for me in the UK, changing the exhaust comes with MOT issues and getting stopped by police etc. Also roads are incredibly congested, so sliding around is not much of an option... and then the price: a reasonably low mileage 718 Cayman/Boxster is similar enough that it's really no competition.
I'm sad that I miss out on the fun!!
I guess you’ll just have to suffer with the Porsche. Lucky bastard.
@@PETERFRITZPHOTO hahaha love the reply 😄
Peter I'm an older owner of a 6spd man 2023 BRZ. The oiling issues are more a consequence of environmental and sales parameters than silicone assembly issues. 15,000km on 0w20 oil certainly isn't about longevity or reliability. Its about ticking environmental boxes. My oil (road use only) came out as black dishwater at just 1500km. Its on its third 5w-30 change at 7000km but I'll settle on 5k changes from now on as its pretty much run in. Larger Bridgestone re71rs tyres, Endless pads, AWE cat back exhaust and a HARROP supercharger simply takes the GR86/BRZ into another realm. With 300rwhp It totally unleashes the platforms capability. There's a replacement oil pan (USA) about to hit the market which solves oil hang on long corners; as a precaution for track work, I'll fit one when its available. Thanks for your video.
Fabulous, valuable input, David - thank you. Wow, 300 RWHP must be laugh-out-loud fun!
@@PETERFRITZPHOTO Peter cheers for that. It has pretty much has made my BRZ into what I think it should have been from the get go. Its only low boost but high result. No lag, no whine no real change to km/l. The installation is unobtrusive and looks totally factory. The car simply carves corners and scoots! Today I drove my 944S2 track car and sadly it now feels lame by comparison.
@@davidgoliath5901 Oh, I LOVE the S2. I drove a couple of those in the late 90’s. They still look good after all these years.
No... But it is a sports car that is fun to drive that is half price of a Porsche :) But many of those that can afford the Porsche say they prefer the Porsche even if it is double the price. But in the comments here I see many Porsche owners saying they prefer the GR86 saying it is more fun at lower speeds.
A really fascinating comparison, and beautiful to watch, I genuinely enjoyed this video. I completely agree on the abilities of the GR86, it's clearly an excellent car, and like an MX-5 it allows you to have the most fun at the lowest speeds possible, and I think that is a great selling point for a sports car designed for the road.
Having said that I do disagree on the styling, I think although Toyota make absolute quality vehicles, their styling is consistently unattractive, and I'd describe the styling of the GR86 at best as functional. It's not a car I'd look at and admire purely for it's looks, although I'd respect the owner for their good decision making.
For me, I have a manual 981S Boxster, and the 981 Cayman and Boxster are both genuinely beautiful cars. As you point out, the sum of the experiences of a sports car is what connects you to it, and the handling, looks, and the sound of that flat 6 with the PSE combine to make for an amazingly enjoyable road car. As much as I admire the spirit and ideals behind the GR86, I would have the 981 over it any day of the week. If I couldn't afford the 981, or wanted a car that really maximised the fun at the slowest possible speeds, I'd be getting another MX-5 (I've owned three), likely a late model NC.
Thanks for this generous, detailed comment. I think some minor modifications would enhance the 86 significantly. But like you, I think the 981 styling is more beautiful and cohesive. It just flows better. I’d also probably err towards another MX5 (my third) if I couldn’t spring for a 981. I just wish they were a couple of inches wider and deeper in the cabin.
I rented a 981 for a week and a BRZ (the GR86's twin) for a weekend and came out buying a GR86. I'd say the GR86 is 80% of what the Porsche is for half the cost.
That's a very smart thing to do, Danny. And I reckon you're probably right. With a bit more sound, some coilovers, and better wheels/tyres, I reckon the BRZ/GR86 are the closest Japan has come to making a viable, affordable Porsche substitute (save for the Z32 300ZX, which was as good as a 944 back in the day).
Definitely. Another consideration for me was the cost of maintenance. An older porsche vs a new toyota. With that being said, I still want to own a porsche one day and be tied to their legacy.
@@DannykeepsitG There are certainly ways to save money. I cover my own savings in another video: czcams.com/video/DywIwwp4fJU/video.html
I like the GR86, but I love it in blue, it would be a good replacement for my Fiesta ST. Alas someone loved my FiST more than me and stole it.
I have a question about photographing cars at a car show, why do they hold up a piece of cardboard before taking a shot?
I don’t know - I’ve never done that. If they’re shooting video rather than stills, it’ll be to set white balance.
I am hoping to get a 2024 Gr this weekend
@@adilraggoo9100 Woo-hoo! Good for you! 👍🎉
Great video
Thanks, Roberto.
Got a 2024 GR86 in Neptune 2.0. The annoying thing are all the random vehicles that feel compelled to speed and race you. I get all kinds of random vehicles who will try and catch up to me and race past me. Honestly it’s weird.
I got 15% ceramic tint all around and 50% ceramic tint on the windshield and an MBRP axle back exhaust. Which is one of the more quieter aftermarket exhausts which is nice cause there’s no drone. I have another set of new wheels, gold enkei rpf1 18x8 and new tires but I haven’t installed them yet cause I’m using the stock wheels and summer tires until August.
It’s probably because the new GR86 looks so much more serious than the previous design, other drivers think you’re in something more exotic. I’d love to see it with the gold wheels. What colour is your car?
@@PETERFRITZPHOTO Neptune 2.0
@@I_discovered_civilization Oh, yes. That’ll work.
I’m currently undecided between the GR86 and the Mazda MX-5. What are your thoughts on this comparison?
Thank you for the video. It was very insightful.
The ND MX5 and GR86 are very different in design and execution, but deliver similar outcomes - driver engagement, fun at sensible speeds, simplicity, and low running costs. The GR is roomier, more comfortable as a daily driver, and more practical. But it cannot offer the same carefree, adventurous feeling you get when steering the MX5 along a coastal or mountain road with the roof down. Drive both: whichever one you buy, you’ll win. 👍
@@PETERFRITZPHOTO thank you
I’ve had Porsche guys drive my GR86 on Sonoma raceway and they said it’s almost the same just a bit slower in the straights
Great review! I read the GR86 and BRZ do not have auto revmatch. do you think one has to master revmatching in order to drive it properly or is it something that does not disturb the fun and the wear of the clutch?
Thank you. Learning to heel and toe is a great skill to learn, but not essential. Instead, you simply use your brakes more for approaching a corner (where a down-change is required) before changing down a gear.
I have never in my 35 years of driving worn out a clutch and I usually buy 10 to 20 year old cars and drive them for 10 years. But it might be different when you have 250 - 300 hp and not 100 to 165 hp in the cars I drive.
Nice vid Pete - I agree with your sentiments. My mate has a GR86. It's a nice ride - but it's no Cayman and def - no a scratch on a Cayman S.....BTW.....any news on the tail lights? - Cheers
Many thanks, Wayne. Yes, the tail lights just arrived a few days ago, along with a new LED strip (to match the clear section of the GTS tail lights), plus new chrome exhaust tips. I have another make-over video to make!
@@PETERFRITZPHOTO cheers mate looking forward to - BTW the wheel worked flawlessly
@@waynejohnson6889 Great to hear! 🙂
Since you’re a long time photog, would love for your video edit to have some photos in between the motion video, similar to Larry Chen video, or the A24 film! CheeRS
Hi Van. Thanks for watching. Do you have a video example you can share so I can understand what you mean?
czcams.com/video/_4Y3IVtEjSk/video.htmlsi=H6KCMGDPpd5DYJ_n
Something similar to this? He has his still shots towards the second half of his video
Your shots in your current video are amazing btw!
I am always amazed at how people drive/road test/vlog about inexpensive (relatively) sports cars (or any car for that matter) and say, "if only it had better [insert] or bigger [insert]". Yes, it would be better and bigger if you want to pay fifty or a hundred percent more for the vehicle or if you want to put more money into aftermarket mods. Cars like the BRZ/GR86 are for folks who want value for their money and a fun factor they can afford. If you want all of the [insert], then ask daddy for more money to buy the other car.
I get your point, but I didn’t say “If only…”. I explained how easily it could be made to look and feel a little more serious if that’s what you wanted. Besides, personalising a car is a lot of fun. Also, I don’t understand your last comment. The GR86 owner paid for his own car. And I’m 56, and have paid for all 30 of my cars - the last 10 or so in cash.
@@PETERFRITZPHOTOcoming from a gen 1 BRZ, I thought Peter was very logical and didn't try to put down the GR86 at all. Spoken by a true car person imo. The best part about owning the BRZ was that aftermarket stuff for it was plentiful and cheap. I managed to score most of the bits used and when I sold the car took them off and basically got what paid for them, not to mention I sold the car for MORE than I paid for it after 4.5 years of joy.
The BRZ’s suspension tuning is a little less more playful/marginally more planted. Wonder if that’d close the gap at all between the Porsche
It would, I imagine.
yes, almost. one has to remember that the twins (86/BRZ) are street cars built to a price point and not have all of the luxury the P-cars have. However, for sub-$38k these twins have great driving dynamics and are fun with more potential when the owner is ready. Only downside I see is you can't fit a Great Dane in the backseat like you can in the WRX. Otherwise, I'd be in a BRZ limited or tS.
LOL!
A 2.7L non S Boxster 981 is utterly underwhelming. I considered for 2 seconds before dropping the extra coin on the 3.4L S which feels like a completely different car when punted on a twisty road. A BRZ/GR86 is money well spent over a base model 981.
I don't care what anyone says. I love my FRS ❤❤❤
"The car will develop more power over time" 😅
Yes, wear on the engine is well known to increase power. Also, if he doesn't change his oil, and filters, he should expect some gains there too
You don't understand how new engines work.
Funny but I own a 2016 GT86 and like the old design more. It looks more like a japanease sports car. The front is also more agressive. But taste/beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Indeed, it is.
How would you compare your (ex) Mazda Miata nd1 to this Toyota GR86?
The 86 is definitely roomier and quieter. And more powerful than the ND1. But it feels more GT than the MX5. That said, though, if it was modified the way my MX5 was (MCA coilovers, strut braces, better tyres, exhaust), it would probably feel every bit as precise and agile as my ND. did. If I'd always wanted a Cayman, the GR86 (with tasteful mods like above) would fill the gap for a few years. But if I'd always wanted a Boxster (and could fit comfortably in the MX5), the MX5 would definitely be the choice.
@@PETERFRITZPHOTO Good way to look at it. I always saw them as different classes of car that just happen to fall into the same field due to price and size. Fun to compare them but most people buying an MX-5 want something different from their driving experience compared someone buying a GR86. MX5 is very "no compromise" in its design and function.
That being said owners of both are in a great position with great cars with low upkeep, can be daily driven around town and still be fun, and are cheap enough that a lot can be done with them to personalize them.
@@Swarm509 You summed it all up beautifully.
Looked at a MX5, not for me. It seemed like a $40,000 car with a 60k price tag. Been thinking of a Cayman but I will have to check out the Toyota. New car warranty and half the price sounds attractive. Can always pull off the Toyota emblem and stick a Porsche one on 😅
LOL!
10:50 LOL
As someone who owns a 2023 BRZ and has driven a lot of Porsches. I would much rather have a new GR86/BRZ than a 2023+ Cayman when factoring in the price difference. Now a moderately used Cayman that is in the middle of the two in price point is a tougher argument. This of course is not accounting for something like a GT4.
I can’t help but agree.
I got a mint 981 S with extended warranty and all options for £31k, the gr86 is about the same new.
981 S will last, retain value and outperform. Id take an older gen 2 gr86 which is half the value in 5 years
2 years of ownership with my GR86! Great car. Love it every day People will try to race you at a red light stand still lolol. But that’s not what it’s about ! No regrets.
Well said, Jacob.
I wouldn’t trade a BRZ/86 for a Boxster/Cayman. I did, and it was a mistake IMHO. I would keep the BRZ/86 until you can get a 911, which is what we all want.
We definitely don't ALL want a 911. For those who actually love to drive hard on challenging roads, Boxster/Cayman platform is a better driver's car than the 911 (watch my earlier videos on this). Most 911 owners who also own a Boxster or Cayman agree on this point. The 911 may have the looks from the rear, but it's way overpriced - especially given the 981 is actually 95% 911. It even costs more to manufacture than the 911.
As a 981 cayman s owner I fully agree with you @ peterfritzphoto My son is awaiting delivery of his 2024 GR86 in a week as we watch this great video
@@hsoeker2107 Thanks, Hakiemah. I reckon the 86 would be a perfect first car for my son, too. He's just 13, but already wants a manual sports car.
If I had a 911 I'd be locked up in the first day. They are not designed for the low speed limits in Australia. Track toy yes but not something you can enjoy on the street without getting into trouble.
Only because you have the 2.7L with 265hp, I would buy 987, it has 320hp in S model and they are dirt cheap
Yeah, I hear you, but I much prefer the design (inside and out), and the dimensions of the 981. And as someone who's owned more powerful cars (like the MKIV Supra), and driven cars with 1,000+ hp, the power in the base 981 is more than sufficient for what I do.
981 s?
Probably yes, but the engine is a letdown both because of the sound note and reliability.
these are too expensive in this market for what you get tbh, they used to be really affordable. I would get a 2004 986 boxster and learn to work on it, like 8k.
Had the GT86 at 30k miles paid 12k for it, 5 years later and 70k more miles sold it for 8k 😂 lost 4 grand in 5 years of ownership not a single issue with the car in 5 years, 1 oil change service a year thats it only breaks and disks change amazing value
Having raced both at the 10 turn track in my town, there's simply no contest: the Cayman (mine is a '23 GTS 4.0) is far and away the better car. The GR86, with it's terrible engine mid range affliction finally resolved, is an assured and competent car and extremely well put together, makes a day at the track a real hoot, and is wonderfully affordable. It's also a car whose looks hold up to its promise of performance, finally! Front to back, it is now a compelling beauty. But . . . it will never stand up to the repeated severe abuse presented at the race track. Even modified as the reviewer suggested here, it isn't designed to take that constant abuse. You are constantly aware with this car that you are hurting it. The Cayman though is like my 3 yr old German Shepherd at the park, who after hours of constant running and chasing looks at me like, "is that all ya got?" It can do anything, all day long, and still drive like new. Simply a masterful car.
But to be clear . . . the GR86 really is a revelation for the price. Just beautifully put together inside and out. Buy it without hesitation!
VERY well stated. Thanks for your contribution. 👍
@@PETERFRITZPHOTO Happy to, and your photography is top drawer, my friend. You've really got a knack for getting the angles right. Wish I had that skill!
@@getit9066 Lol - thanks. After 40 years, I’m still learning.
😢😢🎉🎉🎉GR86 nice
Is the Boxster/cayman a better car than GR86? Yes, for most people. However, it’s not $40k better.
You're quite right. Like most things, there's a diminishing rate of return as the price escalates. That applies to cars, cameras, hi-fi gear, everything. Ultimately, it comes down to desire + resources. If I had a lazy $5M in the bank, I'd probably order a brand new Boxster GTS 4.0 and spec it up to buggery. But I don't, so I haven't. And my 10-yo base Boxster does me just fine.
You really don’t want to lower it and fit wider tyres … looks cool but not at all practical to do … 2nd gen BRZ owner here.
It depends how it’s done. I fitted quality coilovers to my ND MX-5, and it transformed the car. The ride remained supple, but the steering, traction, and body control were improved significantly. I’d only go up an inch in width and diameter with wheels on the 86. I didn’t bother with the MX5 because they were already perfect.
@@PETERFRITZPHOTOGood to hear Peter. In the past I’ve fitted Koni dampers to cars and they were a great improvement. These cars are pretty supple to begin with, unless you do modifications properly you do a lot of damage to bushes and driveshafts and wear tyres out very quickly.
I’d forgotten how nice Mt.Macedon is, might take BRZ up the Calder soon.
@@J_S209 Yes, the mountain is wonderful. There are some beautiful side roads up there, too.
Driving me crazy, what watch are you wearing?Christopher Ward?
Yes - the C60 Trident Pro 300. Love it.
@@PETERFRITZPHOTO Ha, thanks,thought so. Nice watches and reasonably priced.
@@ricktrue8441 They really are. Another brand I love is Davosa. Their build quality and finish is high, and they're using quality Sellita movements. One of my favourite watches to date is the black dial Davosa Ternos Ceramic - essentially a Submariner homage. I just gave it to my son and ordered the PVD rose gold version: www.davosa.com/en-int/products/ternos-ceramic-16155565
@@PETERFRITZPHOTO Thankyou for bringing the Davosa brand to my attention.
Trying to figure out whether to get a 370z or gr86
Lots more engine in the 370, but it’s an older platform, and the exterior styling isn’t as fresh. I haven’t driven one, so I can’t comment on that aspect.
It seems to be that the GR 86 is better dynamically, the best I can tell you is to watch Throttle House's comparison between the 370Z and the 86 TRD :)
@Bmontepeque11 yes but a 370z with a good suspension dynamically changes the handling as well. I recall someone saying the nismo feels not too far off from a gr86. But of course that isn't entirely true. However, a base 370z feels alot different than the nismo due to the suspension which should be entirely true haha
@@Bmontepeque11 Sounds like good advice to me.
@@mosswine5417 86 is a track/canyon car. 370z is a drift car at best. They're heavy and unreliable.
The 86 needs more GR than just the badge.
A small snail would be nice...
GR86 and BRZ is great cars with a low price, problem is they are new cars which makes them more expensive then baying a old Porsche Cayman with more horsepower...
@@a64738 In some countries, absolutely.
My homies blew up less than 20 k miles 😭
Bugger... Do you know the cause?
That's nice and all but a wise man once sa The Vette gets em wet!!!!
lol…I love that movie. But he was referring to the suspension components getting wet from all the oil leaks.
@@PETERFRITZPHOTO touche
J'ai échangé un mazdaspeed3 3013 contre un subaru wrx 2017 et j'ai regretter presque aussitôt des problème de moteur jusqu'à sa mort explosion de u moteur 191 000 km et pas un na été plaisant après 50000kn , jeudi le 23 je vais cherché mon achat gr86 premium 2023 avec seulement 5000km j'espère aimer le comportement à long terme du moteur comme j'ai aimé en faire la conduite
I hope so, too.
Wow you can compare a Porsche boxter to a Toyota GR86😬😳😱
And you can use Emojis.
Weird question…
Why? Have you watched the video?
If the engine's were not blowing up even from regular street use I could see it. I wouldn't buy one unless you plan on swapping the engine or are prepared to go through warranty hell with Subaru/Toyota.
Yep - I’ve since learned about the oil pickup issue due to the sealant used in its construction. It’s definitely a wart on an otherwise great package.
Ricky Gervais became a car reviewer
I'll take that.