Wrestlers were RIGHT all along! | 3 Things Wrestlers Say About Jiujitsu
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- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
- Hey giant slayers, In this video Brandon covers 3 things wrestlers say about jiu-jitsu...
1. Learning
2. Superior takedowns
3. Superior conditioning
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#wrestling #wrestlingvsbjj #jiujitsu
all very good points, having done both sports at a high level, I agree
Honored to have you watch and comment Dean! Been following you for years. Aloha from Hawaii 🤙🏻
@@DavidvsGoliathBJJ aloha my bruddah, keep up the good work
Woah dude I was not expecting to see you in the comments section lol. I've seen some of your old fights and I gotta say I'm a fan
This is amazing had to check if its the real lister tho😂👏🏻
I wanted to be able to agree with the whole video but my reaction to the concept(not necessarily yours I know) that the way to protect students from takedown related injuries was to not do them or do them less had me screaming at the TV. NO! BACKWARDS! DRILL THEM MORE BUT DON'T DO THEM LIVE AS MUCH! If you don't drill falls, you are never going to learn how to land as well as possible.
Ryan Hall said it best. "High level grappling involves wrestling"
Love it. Ryan Hall is legit
@@DavidvsGoliathBJJ i dont think anybody that actually grapples denies that tho.
When did he say this?
@@rye-bread5236 he said it on his podcast "take it uneasy"
Definitely the truth.
Wrestlers walk onto the mats with good base, good control, but no chill
True, but nobody wants to get called for stalling. Wrestling has aggression built in. With the right instructor it can be tempered
That’s why they succeed. BJJ guys are super laid back most of the time. Wrestlers go hard
I respect their grind
The base wrestlers have is no joke. My buddy who’s a blue belt is so hard to sweep 🧹
True 😂🤣😂
You need both if you're a grappler.
I agree ☝️
Wrestle, judo, jiu jitsu.
90% of all fights go to the ground but 100% of all fights start standing up
Agreed both are essentials.....
@Algo+codehawk Then you don't understand grappling.
@Algo+codehawk go away
As someone who has been involved with wrestling for over a decade and competed briefly in college at the division 1 level, a number of things stuck out to me in my first experience with BJJ. Very little was shown regarding takedowns and takedown defense in the practices, there is a lot of detail involved in the techniques; wrestling also has a lot of details but in bjj the details are much more specific and involve smaller movements, the pace of the grappling was much slower in bjj and the skill gap between lower belts and brown and black belts was insane. When rolling it was apparent to me that belt levels white through purple could not keep up with the pace I was bringing. Both the speed of my attacks and actions per minute seemed to overwhelm everyone in the room at purple belt or lower. It seems like they are used to a generally slower pace and a more methodical approach, additionally I can tell their brains were trying to think and keep up but the reactions weren’t there and panic would set in. However, when rolling with Brown and black belts, it felt like the level of skill and knowledge shot up substantially. Even between purple and brown it felt like night and day. The brown and black belts also worked at a slow pace and I often felt like I was outscrambling them, but I could tell they were tracking me with their eyes and with feel as they made accurate predictions about my next technique and would defend while exerting little energy or moving much. They would also set traps and would use my nature of wanting to be on top or my tendency to secure front headlocks against me. It goes without saying that I was unable to secure any submissions against these higher belt levels but I also found myself getting caught in things at a decent clip. As for one form of grappling being better than the other, it depends. In MMA, you can get away with not having much jiujitsu, as takedowns are scored very heavily even if there is little control time and an experienced wrestler can scramble his way out of most positions on the ground even if he is not familiar with them. That being said, high level jiujitsu has a very dangerous and unorthodox element that can end fights instantly and it commands to be respected by opponents. Realistically knowing both is the way to go, even if you know one more than the other familiarity with both is important for your development. Don’t be blindly loyal to your specific ground based martial art, as all of them provide advantages
I agree knowing both is the way to go. Thank you for a thoughtful well written post and for sharing 🤙🏻
Insanely good input.... 🙏 thank you for the counsel Good Sir‼️🔥
Fantastic input, I fully agree. I realized though, the pace and skill of a bjj black belt can continue through later stages of age and life, wrestling not so much, but takedowns must be trained.
Mostly agree but I think you would have a hard time finding an mma guy who doesn’t train BJJ. The wrestlers all have submissions and use their wrestling to take down, control opponents and set up bjj submissions.
I love your unbiased Statement this is what people need to hear !
People sometimes put wrestling and BJJ or jiujitsu as a thing against each other, man... they’re in line and supports one another
Fax it’s literally arguing using your left or right hand when you need both
Wrestling used to have submissions...they removed them about 100 years ago..catch wrestling still does..
I would say jujitsu moves were apart of wrestling at one point but we’re removed in modern wrestling for safety. Full Nelson, Camorra, figure 4, cloaking moves, even the singlet was adopted instead of a Gea to prevent breaking fingers.
Naw. Wrestling is better, and way harder
@@jarettesuikowsky6742 nothing wrong with the extra knowledge in various submissions. They are not against each other regardless of which one is harder. Did you get my point or you wrestle so hard and good you forgot how to find the meaning of a sentence?
I’ve wrestled for about a decade, and done jiu jitsu for a couple years. A big thing I noticed is that wrestling molded a dominant posture into me that made most mid level JJ belts really struggle with finding a submission.
How about if I do both at the same time, but with doing bjj 3X a week and wrestling 2x a week. Would that still give me the dominant posture you are talking about?
@@K9Y750yes....
I joined wrestling just for the takedowns back in highschool. I didn't get to compete but the practice made me way better than most of the people in my gym
I do BJJ with son, and I put him in a wrestling school as well. I think a combination of the two arts is a good idea.
And at my BJJ school we almost never drill random techniques, but rather positional drills within a conceptual framework. Which I think is great.
Awesome to hear! Thanks for sharing
Keep your son in wrestling! My dad always told me to do it and i never did. Probably one of my biggest regrets was not doing wrestling when i had the chance
Thats good they go hand in hand i swear but you throw bjj into wrestling your unstoppable on the ground
A bit of striking and he’d be a beast in a fight, not that that’s necessarily what you’re going for as wrestling and other martial arts have plenty of other benefits like a never give up mindset to power through hardship or self discipline to keep yourself on track, both of which are invaluable skills I got from my 4 years of wrestling and 6 years of martial arts
You belong to the elite schools of the planet I guess, good for you, keep it up :-)
Not a wrestler but am a BJJ practitioner. I kept losing at tourneys and decided to stop trying BJJ and train wrestling exclusively for 6 months.
Came back to BJJ and my game was twice as good.
It's so important to have good transitions and takedowns.
I don't really care about promotions just improvements
That’s more important for sure
People don't like to admit it but promotions in Jiu-Jitsu are not very meritocratic.
Patrick, I would say that very much depends on the dojo you go to.
@@CalebSpears1 I'm sure there are some clubs that promote people fairly, but I have trained at three now, and none of them have, so I suspect that there aren't many. In my experience clubs issue promotions based on how long a person has been training at the club and are extremely reluctant to promote person A ahead of person B, if person A started training at the club after person B, regardless of skill, training-frequency, dedication etc. This all makes perfect sense from a financial point of view -- so I understand why they do it --- but I am not the kind of person that can accept obvious self-serving lies, so I get pissed off when instructors act like promotions are perfect judgements of a person's ability, and I find it cultish and disappointing when people accept these lies. When I turn up to training now I don't even consider people's rank, or think about working towards a promotion because I just don't believe that they mean much, and I think that is a more honest approach.
Very respectful statement
Completely agree with the point about not drilling things enough. It’s very frustrating to be shown something for 5 minutes and move on.
Drillers are killers.
This is why i've given up on all sports that include belts lol
Yep. And really top level BJJ coaches don't do it the normal BJJ way either. That's one of the reasons why the Danaher Death Squad is so successful. Lots of repetitive situational rolling. Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect.
I wrestled for 10 years and just recently got into jujitsu, personally I love it but it's definitely a different intensity. Much slower but controlled, I still am pretty explosive and fast paced but I do it more controlled than in the past. I do agree we have better takedowns, and in general faster feet. I love both and they each have skills worth learning.
Glad to hear you have experience in both! I think we can learn so much from each sport. Happy training my friend 🤙🏻
What submission do you often get caught with in your transition?
Very well said :-)
If you consider that the Gracies themselves, even Royler for example were not given black belts until after at least 10 years of training, then that decade of grappling experience you have starts to take on a different look. Jiu Jitsu takes a lot of time, it’s quite unnatural in many ways, the guard, being on bottom, having to submit your opponent and also fight out of submissions. People seem to want shortcuts, but it’s all mat time, sweat and thought as is the wonderful art of wrestling. That said, they are two arts with somewhat different focusses and the time element is always a factor.
as a judoka at 5:40 learning to fall is number 1 for any martial artist. In Judo we warm up with practicing break falls by slapping the mat and doing shoulder rolls.
Same in wrestling. Front back cartwheels, bridge front flip back without putting it down. Like for takedowns which you drill with another person for minutes on end, like 3 minutes straight you repeatedly double leg the guy and then three minutes switch and so forth, we never used a dummy. but that level of acrobatics is also used for using your weight and balance to win control on the ground and come out on top of a scramble. Ive never met a guy who started in bjj who could keep up in a scramble. Or use their hips to maximize their weight properly. Its not just that its 5 days a week, 3 hours a day minimum and you make weight every Saturday 5 months a year and you do it for years and years. With nothing on the line but your own pride. Nothing to gain everything to lose. The exercises involved especially at the highschool level are crazy intense. Kids who grow up in wrestling grow up hard. Wrestling is more intense than anything I've done including the army. In fact basic went by like automatically and everything was easy after that
It’s amazing Judi and bjj are thought together more
When I started jiu jitsu I was accused of being a wrestler. Only wrestling I’ve done was WWF when I was 10 in my living room. 🤙
Did you do a wrestling body slam?!
🤗 Just kidding.
Pile drivers all day! 😉👍
Same everyone thought I was a wrestler never wrestled a day in my life
next time they give you crap, shove a dirty sock in their mouth. 10/10 works everytime
Same with me, I just played soccer and football for years in high school lol
Before you teach take downs or throws you first have to teach how to land safely and how to absorb momentum. Don’t stop teaching take downs, teach more falls and landings.
Exactly
Yes! Pretty much every wrestling practice I’ve been in starts with some kind of fall practice in the shape of long/short/high or backwards somersaults. It’s simple but effective since the only really dangerous position to fall into is head and arms first.
Throw in footwork, stance, shooting a leg takedown, blocking said takedown, recovering from a takedown, handwork, head control, and moving your opponent.
@TryllaTröllMaistre Fictitious Fables of Europa same
My wrestling coach did it great "Don't be afraid of the failing there's a matt" proceeds to throw student
Wrestling vs jui jitsu is going to come down to the individual athletes involved and the rule set. Wrestlers win in a wrestling matches and bjj guys win in bjj matches. Judo is also a grappling style to be considered.
I agree. The rule set makes a huge difference as well as the individual
Judo stripped of half it's value .Leaves you with Jui-Jitsu .
Unsure why people argue X grappling style is better than Y style. To be a true martial artist you should incorporate all valid styles into your game over time. It all contributes to your ability to win a fight, which is the ultimate goal.
@@CalebSpears1 agreed.
My kids used to take Judo. When I watched the classes I gained a respect for Judo throws and sweeps. I know after seeing some of the throws I was glad they trained on a padded surface. Something I'm guessing all grappling arts do.
I train both. The advantage wrestling gives the ability to really control your opponent and get them to the ground. When I roll with wrestlers they go HARD, like slam you into the matt hard. BJJ guys are usually super laid back. After training with wrestlers for awhile, you’ll find it’s way easier to takedown most BJJ guys. But BJJ is essential when your on the ground and relaxed flo rolling is one of my favorite things to do
Same here. I think flow rolling is an important aspect of developing your overall game
There are grips permitted in BJJ that are barred in wrestling. Where wrestling emphasizes pinning _and avoiding getting pinned_ BJJ shifts emphasis on submissions. The rest is the formalities of the sports - the ring, the uniform, points scoring, breakup of rounds, etc.
@@saureco True I find its very easy to take the backs of Wrestlers
Q: who's better, wrestling or BJJ?
A: Yes
Indeed.
Right all of the above LOL
czcams.com/video/ae-EjXQsOfs/video.html
Yes or conversely 😀
I've been training for 8 years at a Royce Gracie affiliated academy here in Texas and even with the experience that I have as a purple belt, the guys who drop in to visit and train with us that have solid wrestling backgrounds always give a difficult time because they are hard as hell to pin lol. Plus the majority of them use no gi so it forces me to match their intensity which is great because not only does it give me a great workout but it gives me more experience against wrestlers as well. Keep it real and stay humble.
The problem wasn't teaching takedowns but not teaching ukemi sufficiently.
This…this is the answer here. BJJ was born from Judo….how can they not remember to teach this concept effectively?
@@mba321 its easier to do floor work, as in throws take more skill and tough on cardio.. Depends also if people are doing mma or bjj on its own..
Yeah it's weird hearing that takedowns or throws are too dangerous to practice when that's what Wrestlers and Samboists and Judoka do every week. Hell I'm a 35 year old lazy bum and going to Judo practice is still 2 hours of getting thrown into the mat and I manage to get nothing more than a bit of soreness.
There’s a huge difference in how you feel depending on what kind of mats you’re getting thrown on. I’ve felt great training on good mats and gymnastics springs but couldn’t even stay at gyms six months when I was getting thrown hard on wrestling mats.
If your school is decent then breakfalls should be taught in fundamentals and also be incorporated in warmups. But I 💯 agree.
My gym is like 90% former wrestlers. Including all but one of my coaches.
i had a nogi coach that had a wrestling background and he taught the same moves over and over. this gave me a edge on some other new students bc most didnt take nogi at all so they didnt learn from him. i liked him so much when he left the school, so did i.
I did wrestling for 4 years in hs now I do ju jit su and they always tell me I’m “ahead” compared to those who haven’t wrestled. So they go hand in hand.
Definitely a good foundation to build upon
You will get hurt if you don't lear how to fall 1st. There is a system to teaching falling as well, you don't just start by "being thrown"
Totally agree. Unfortunately even after a lot of reps some guys still post their arms instinctively. Was a freak accident for that one guy.
I dislocated my left shoulder on a double leg because I posted
Most bjj practitioners miss the point of a takedown. A takedown is to gain position on an opponent not cause damage to the opponent. Someone is performing a takedown should be in control of the opponent and know where he or she is going to finish the takedown and is responsible for the safety of the person being taken down.
I mean most of the Judo practitioners ive talked to definitely think that a good takedown is meant to cause damage.
That's because judo sport is just about the throw. Wrestling it is one piece of the puzzle to gain position for control/the pin. I need to hand fight, separate your head from your hips and keep pressure on you to gain control.
While the throw is a big part, Judo also has grappling on the ground and the trip is everything in Judo as well.
Uhh. No. No no. No. They without. A doubt. Understand. The takedowns. And position.
@@ryanbrennan7282 Greco-Roman definitely encourages damaging throws as well.
Good vid! Thanks for sharing!!!
This is an awesome channel as a smaller guy who grapples with bigger guys constantly I am excited to see what your channel grows into and becomes
Thanks bro. I thought of it with guys like you in mind!
Yea, I went to one gym and not once did we ever start rolls on the feet. We always started on our knees. Then I found another gym that had a strictly wrestling class and my takedowns got way better.
Bjj isn’t about the belt but the journey. Just enjoy it. Don’t worry about getting a belt bc I rather be a good blue belt than a shitty purple belt etc...
Enjoying the journey is the best part!
and that's the difference
wrestler needs to win, there is no enjoying it. Win or nothing
Agree. Rather be a purple belt under danaher than be a black belt at some local gym
Awesome video with great points!
Very valuable video, great points. Thanks
As a judoka who rolls quite often with both students of BJJ and (less often) Wrestling, and as a long time follower of MMA, I would have to say that the only place where there is any debate as to which is more effective between BJJ and wrestling is among BJJ people. Everyone else picks wrestling hands down.
Hahaha.... this is so true. 🤣
More effective in general? Or just in takedowns? Because I’ve guillotined a ton of wrestlers who were waaay better at takedowns than me. In submission BJJ is sooo far ahead
@@itachiuchiha5771 In general. That said - takedowns (in the broader sense, including slams/trips/throws) are a bigger part of both MMA and real fighting than ground grappling is.
I think the most popular guy who has put wrestling into BJJ is Nick Rodriguez currently.
He’s doing it well indeed
Garry Tonon ever hear of him. Simply the best at fusing both
Most of the competitors competing in ADCC have good wrestling for that ruleset, since takedowns are one of the most important ways to win an ADCC match (subs are basically impossible, sweeps are hard, passing is hard, back takes are hard, and pulling guard is penalized). They may not be any good at folk or freestyle wrestling, but they are pretty darn good at wrestling for the ADCC rules, which is a lot different.
My guess is the average D1 wrestler (not an All American or some top level guy from Penn State, Oklahoma State, etc) would probably be on par with most of the ADCC competitors under ADCC rules, even though they would probably tech fall them under folkstyle / freestyle rules.
@@MS-jk6gj i was just about to mention GT his shit is legit.
Nobody can stop my stonecold stunner in my BJJ gym so I say, wrestling.
I started Jiu jitsu in my 50s, my back ground was wrestling in high school and Judo in my 20s. I personally pull gaurd most of the time. I also have a back ground in traditional martial arts from over the years as well, in which they practiced take down's and short wrestling time to a dominate position. Basically I use judo when grip fighting to avoid the take down to have fun, but mostly pull gaurd. I'm not super competitive, but look for ways to tire out younger and bigger people during practice. Basically frustrating the other person. But then again I'm a middle rank white belt as well. The curriculum could be better, but I like the people I practice with. Callisthenics and running are a must at my age
Thou hast put words to so many of my thoughts, formed over the past year of my bjj journey! Carry on, sir.
I've always wanted to wrestle but I now take BJJ. I appreciate them both and they both have their strengths 🤷🏽
Respect to you for the honest - and IMHO - accurate assessment. Although off topic a bit, these thoughts crossed my mind while reading some comments and watching your video....
An arrogant athlete (skilled at either BJJ and/or wresting) sadly pursues external validation with actions that stem from deep seeded insecurities. The honorable athlete rigorously pursues their craft (and life) with grace and passion while giving to others. They are authentic, driven by a kind and generous spirit. BJJ and/or wrestling can enhance an athlete's true character... for better or worse. The beauty (or beast) is in the choice made.
I am forever thankful to my elementary through high school wrestling coaches who demonstrated what a true champion is; and I am thankful for my college wrestling coach for the DICK that he was... for the world has both good and bad, and it's critical to learn from both.
Cheers to those with clarity, integrity, empathy and humility... the latter is the greatest quality; arrogance is undoubtedly the worst.
Thank you for taking the time to write this thoughtful comment Jerome. I believe the same in that these types of outlets provide us as human beings to develop and grow on the inside. External transformations are a result of deep inner workings and commitments. Aloha my friend 🤙🏻
At 40 years old I just started BJJ and am happy to see this video bc it makes me feel at ease that my school practices clenching, takedowns, and no gi as well.
A wrestlers toughness also comes in part from the hard cardio. But one thing people forget is how simple techiniques like a two on one is taught. Within good sportsmanship, you want to make your opponent uncomfortable. IE you wanna cause pain, not injury. You don't hold his wrist with just enough strength to control him, you wanna grind into his bones. If you throw a crossface you want him to be in pain if he wants to try and turn into it. Training like this you become immune to minor pains.
I started training BJJ at a Relson Gracie academy in August of 2001. I started wrestling in kindergarten and wrestled for Ohio University. The most frustrating aspect of BJJ compared to wrestling is every white belt in BJJ thinks they “know” what they need for their “game.” Everyone is looking for some hack or why they need a variation that suits them. In wrestling you just do what the coach tells you to do until he tells you to stop.
BJJ is filled with a lot individuals that think they are so smart and can out think the principle of hard work.
And being a crappy wrestler on your crappy high school team does not make you a “wrestler.” Because you say the bench for your high school football team does not empower you to tell Tom Brady “you are a football player.” Same thing goes for calling yourself a “wrestler.”
Thanks for sharing, I appreciate the perspective. happy thanksgiving
One of the things I tell my wrestling teammates is that anyone can wrestle but only a few people can be wrestlers
If that’s your experience of white belts then maybe it’s time to change schools. I’ve never met a white belt where I train that gave me that impression. The strength of BJJ is that there are a lot of “individuals” with their own idea who keep the sport constantly evolving. They do this with positive attitudes towards their training partners. It starts at the top.
Well said
@@thekitchen6378 I’ve been doing this 19 years. No breaks. No lapses. How long have you been training? White belts with “individuality” and their own ideas are like kindergartners explaining what they need to learn and how they need to act.
To reply to the question, i found that doing wresting for takedowns, take down defences, and certain mount positions can be used. Take a simple sprawl, which I was known for, and add a submission. Front guillotines are easy as we are already taught to look for a front headlock then cow catcher. Another one i could see is taking the back mount after any standard double leg. Some arm holds, a the Rear naked choke, an arm triangle are all possible with set up. wrestling and BJJ are both great arts, and should be used to compliment each other rather than argue which is better
I couldn’t agree more. Great examples bro
I agree because I used to wrestle in high school and I currently practice Jiu-jitsu. I believe that both styles have the their strengths and weaknesses, but in the end you will be a more seasoned grappler if you use both styles.
Good points and great video.
Thanks Marcel 🤙🏻
Awesome video great to see wrestling content. I wrestled D3 wrestling and now I am learning jujitsu, wrestler vs boxer on Twinz VS who would win? Great video again!
Our wrestling team had a coach for part of a season who owned a BJJ gym, dude was also a great wrestler of course but that BJJ knowledge in wrestling made him NASTY in the scramble. Point being it goes both ways, both can be implemented to some extent to enhance ones grappling overall
We already have a tournament that mixes all forms of grappling, that's the ADCC.
Also Quintet
MMA would be a better place
I was a brown belt 2 kyu in judo before wrestling in HS. While wrestling in HS I started taking Japanese Jujitsu. I can't tell how much they complimented each other on any mat. I got my Black in Japan where I went to study for a year. I was a Army Ranger and had some flexibility in my training between deployments. I would suggest to anyone in Jujitsu to include wrestling in your training!
Great video BTW
I from Mililani BTW.
ALOHA
Thank you, sir. This is really good to know!!!
I did both, and I would say that a guy with a strong wrestling background that knows the fundamentals of BJJ, especially so he can recognize and defend submissions, is the better package than vice versa.
However if between a pure wrestler or pure BJJ black belt, I’d say I’d favor the black belt in BJJ because they can end it in so many ways amidst the grappling and the wrestler likely wouldn’t know how to defend against certain submissions or recognize the bad positions he may put himself in.
Bottom line to me
Pure high level wrestler < pure high level BJJ
(Id say Royce Gracie proved this much)
(Better package of skills to have in a fight)
High level wrestling background + slight BJJ experience (fundamentals) > High level BJJ + slight wrestling experience (fundamentals)
I agree. I also agree that if this is MMA a wrestler with great striking beats high level BJJ with ok striking, as in an MMA/fighting context BJJ is kinda useless if you can't get ahold of the guy. There are exceptions, ofc, I mean a 220 lb wrestler could slam a 110 lb ADCC champion and break his neck, but that's with everything
Don’t forget Rickson Gracie He’s a Beast!
Spot on
As a guy who’s done both, I agree 100% look at Nicky Rod as an example.
Wrestling also has very narrow weight classes. So they have to wrong out every bit of strength and athleticism per pound to succeed.
Great point 🤙🏻
Ya you'll never see someone wrestling with a guy 50lbs heavier in wrestling practice.
@@frontsquats cap my go to wrestling partners in practice has 30lbs on me. Sparring a heavier dude is great practice
@@frontsquats I don't know, but here in Italy we practice with everyone in the gym . I'm 135 lbs and I train with tall 200 lbs guys so you have to use all of your strength and technique . Your helping them improve too because you're faster and more agile .
@@frontsquats ideally, my senior year I was in a spot of not having a good partner at my weight class so I’d often wrestle up a few weight classes and my best training partner was 40 pounds heavier, he still got something out of it because nobody else rode legs and he needed to work his leg defense, other times I’d wrestle the 220s which also worked out decently well
Great video!
Thanks buddy
I came to your school once when I stayed with Relson. Great school, had a ton of fun rolling with you guys many moons ago.
Dang that’s awesome. Hope to cross paths with you again someday 🤙🏻
I think the first point is not about curriculum but about drilling stuff until you can do them without thinking, instinctively. Curriculum is not the problem I think problem is lack of focus on executing things quickly explosively and under pressure.
The lack of takedowns is really a huge problem in BJJ, not even because of lack of attacking with them but mostly because of lack defence or counters. In any sort of non-competion confrontation you really do not want to be taken down unless you absolutely can not help it. Same with scrambling from being taken down, reversing quickly etc. But I get what you say about business, I did Judo in my teens and then later as a 28 year old. In my teens I could go hard and recover. As 28 year old after 10 month I just could not take the punishment anymore, painkillers, cold bath every day etc. Most people over 30 in that club mostly rolled on the ground and did light randori, just hurts too much and injuries accumulate.
Great points bro. Being able to execute under pressure without having to think is key
Ugghh, tough to hear that about judo. I'm 52 and was looking at judo and jiu jitsu but leaning towards judo. Sounds like judo might be more of a young man's game...
BJJ moved away from takedowns because they get much harder as people get older. Helio realised that for self-defence you only need a handful of takedowns.
But for SPORT jiu-jitsu, 100% the takedown game is lacking and is a big hole that can be exploited.
I do both at 39 yo. I spend almost about 30 mins stretching for every hour of mat time. My body can only handle the grind if I do the maintenance work to facilitate recovery.
I’m 31 and I’m realizing that also. I try to use massage gun, ice, epsom salt baths, stretch, etc. Those things we almost non existent in my 20’s
Pure wrestlers get confused about what to do against a person who doesn't mind being on the bottom. Also wrestlers doesn't do much submissions. On the other hand they have plenty of stamina and they go hard and fast all the time. They also have superb balance.
I would prefer not to go against a wrestler unless they have a gi on for me to immobilize them with.
Yeah my buddy who wrestled div 3 had a hard time finishing takedowns when people were hanging on to his collars all the time
Yeah that makes a lot of sense in a grappling bout but in an MMA fight top control is huge for ground and pound. Wrestling is definitely better for setting up ground and pound than BJJ.
@@fudgenugget8875 if ground and pound is the only aim then maybe. Bjj is about establishing position too. We do both where I train so maybe that kind of blurs the line between the two for me. I think bjj is better. Wrestling alone is not going to get you any submission skills and it also doesn't allow striking. I never really see wrestlers dominating a position that allows use of the hands for strikes. That would be an extra skill that would have to be trained separately.
Promising channel 😎 subscribed!
Thanks for the sub and kind words bro
I have studied martial arts including Karate, Aikido, and HS Wrestling. In my opinion you should learn to break fall and roll out. It is such an important skill not only for fighting but for falls(trips,slips,throws,etc). These skills literally saved my life various times.
When I wrestled HS and college. I literally wrestled 5 or 6 days a week 2-3 hours a day then did conditioning on my own. Most MMA, BJJ, Martial arts schools train 3 days a week. I think overall you just have more mat time in wrestling. That adds up. Plus there is a lot of repetition in wrestling
I don't get how that is survivable. Sounds like that's too much for most adults to handle
@@hectormejia5090 its all in your head
Great points! As a former wrestler “even 50 year old do bjj” and older bjj student I have no desire to shoot double leg takedowns. Too risky for me. Wrestling gives you a great foundation!
Indeed it is. Happy thanksgiving
Same here, I used to have a good power double but now I just like to ankle pick or greco when no gi
And cheaper to learn
The first point is really really accurate for wrestling. It's been a decade but as soon as I get in stance everything is muscle memory.
It's straight nutty to me getting back into combat sports, realizing that certain movements are still ingrained into my body not matter how long it's been.
I think that submissions are also another factor. For example, I think of Catch Wrestling how there seem to be fewer restrictions concerning the submissions. In BJJ you are told that you are not to turn your back to your opponent but in wrestling, there are ways to attempt to apply armlocks or shin locks depending on the positions while your back is turned. With fewer restrictions, I believe a skilled wrestler can apply leglocks to the guard player and use gravity to smash. Another thing I like about Wrestling is that you just have to simply understand its principles without being concerned about what color cloth is around your waist.
I've trained in both, and wrestling training was way more intense. Like more than double. In bjj we more so warmed up before practicing.
That's because in wrestling your training with the end goal of competition in mind, and the coach is preparing you to compete so they train the crap out of you(his job is to get you to win). In BJJ its usually a casual environment. But some BJJ schools have a competition team those practices are intense just like wrestling, but I think a lot of the times those are invite only or you have to make it known that your going to compete to get in that class(not sure).
@@edmuquit5134 Cool, but I'm talking typically.
They are both great. I’ve seen wrestlers come in and excel very fast at jujitsu. Good wrestlers are in phenomenal shape and already have been humbled. I say jujitsu is for wrestlers who can’t wrestle anymore and still want to compete.
What about jujitsu + wrestling?
All the above, that's my answer. Fighter's are repetitive, to evolve, become well rounded, a sufficient fighter. We don't stop learning🙏🏼🤠
Awesome observation
A wrestler with Jiu-Jitsu with beat a Jiu-Jitsu player with wrestling.
Everything equal.
Started training April 2018 and I’m currently a 4 stripe blue belt. I have no grappling experience outside of my short bjj lifespan. Only thing I agree with wrestlers about is that a lot of bjj guys have a weak training mentality. I like the grind that comes with bjj. Coming in and training hard. A lot of BJJers don’t have that grind mentality. They just want to come in, drill, and maybe roll 2-3 rounds. I’m 23 so older dudes get a pass with this comment. People around my age though...it irritates me how weak they come across with a soft mentality. I moved to Oahu in feb and the gym I joined is my second gym. Most of us there are all ready to grind when we step on the mat. That’s what I enjoy the most.
Awesome bro which gym on Oahu?
@@DavidvsGoliathBJJ SilverFox jiujitsu up in wahiawa.
When I wrestled at Moanalua back in the late 80s a lot of our guys were also On the judo team. They would practice throws no gi with us which helped our skill sets. I didn’t get into Judo and later Jujitsutu until college. The pacing and focus is different in all three arts. Each can build on each other if you have the right people in the gym. The issue I saw with the MMA/jujitsu schools was a lack of focus not on teaching throws but how to protect yourself from injury. But as you said, you can’t teach what you don’t know. So when ever I’d agree to being in a sparring partner for someone, I’d spend a day or so teaching defense and how to fall correctly.
You need both!!
Before I quit teaching takedowns I would teach my students how to break their Falls which comes into play with Judo
From a coaching perspective teaching how to fall is a priority for sure
In the story about the guy that broke his arm. It seems to me that if the instructor wasn’t teaching them how to fall and how to be taken down, if he wasn’t teaching them how to be safe, then he wasn’t doing his job. I feel like teaching safety would be among the very first things you teach when teaching take downs. But I’m no expert
Our old instructor used to teach and preach how to fall properly but no everyone picks it up or has instinct to do it right when getting tossed. Was definitely a freak accident though. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Happy thanksgiving!
@@DavidvsGoliathBJJ I would say, the take downs primarily learned in wrestling, single legs, double legs, duck unders, snap downs, front head locks into cement mixers, maybe a hip toss are considerably safer then say the arm throw or some of the later judo moves, if I were an instructor those would all be drilled constantly, and as part of warm ups to get those things in motion, alot of jiu jitsu schools just ignore them and have their students pull guard, which from a self defense aspect could be bad if someone immediately kicks them in the face
I agree with everything mentioned. The reversal has been extremely effective with wrestlers in my experience sometimes im not even sure how they have fallen for it tbh.
You nailed it. I agree...Bjj brown belt, With no wrestling background.
I think it's also important to accept that you are GOING to get hurt. You're training in a combat sport. It's a guarantee. There is however a difference between being hurt and being injured and I think that people who come from a non-athletic background into BJJ (most?) have a hard time knowing the difference since it's so new to them.
That’s a great point Adam. I would often tell myself the same thing upon entering a tournament hurt. Everyone who trains doesn’t step onto the mat 100% healthy all the time
My day job is teaching folkstyle wrestling and my night hobby is training jiu jitsu. There’s much deeper layers to the wrestling v jiu jitsu question, such as sport/self defense or folkstyle/freestyle/Greco for jiu jitsu, and then it’s application in the gi v no-gi.
Any jiu jitsu athlete can have great strength and cardio like a wrestler if they put in the same amount of time and work. Wrestlers are young competitors, whereas jiu jitsu players are a blend of competitors and not as young hobbyists. A majority of wrestlers’ life of competition will end right at the high school level as well, but that is hopefully where their life as a jiu jitsu competitor begins.
I’m about self defense combatant style
You know why I like BJJ? You can do take downs. You can do submissions. You don’t stopped when tapped. You know why I don’t like BJJ? Not enough drilling of one move. Also, thanks for pointing out that wrestlers start younger and generally have a head start on training over most BJJ guys.
I have to agree with all three points!!!
Bruce Lee would get rid of the titles of each discipline and analyze and distill down what works best in each for self defense. I would make this observation myself having wrestled for 6 years, I think it’s easier to convert and teach a wrestler jujitsu than the other way around just because of the foundational work capacity wrestlers have to go through. When I wrestled in college we did 100 dips and 100 pull ups (Gable sets: 1 dip, 1 pull up, 2 dips, 2 pull ups up to 10 then back down) then run 5 miles then go to practice for 2 hours (which included multiple rope climbs) then we’d run another 5 miles. And we did this Monday through Friday on days we didn’t have matches or tournaments. While this type of training isn’t sustainable over a long period we were in tremendous condition and ready for serious competition. This kind of work ethic is why wrestlers do so well in mma.
YO‼️ @BaccaratFitness one of the grossest comments I've ever seen on the Boob-Tube.... Kudos-- that is insane (do not EVER pretend that it is not🤯🤯🤯)
@@TheBandFLEDGELING I don’t understand what you’re saying. Grossest comments? And what’s insane?
@@baccaratfitness2360 and thus you have pretended to not know what I'm saying--- I'm DED ☠😢💀
@@TheBandFLEDGELING I’m not pretending. 😊
@@baccaratfitness2360 I'm so DED right now..... @BaccaratFitness is dancing 🕺 on my Grave ☠🤯💀
BJJ practitioners will always tell you they roll, train BJJ and tell you what belt they have without ever being asked.
Wrestles just take you down and slap you around.
Excellent video, all very valid points, BJJ guys who are full of themselves don't respect wrestling but should because it's an amazing sport.
At about 3:35. Calling it "The Eye Exam" is...I've never heard of that before, but I think that's a great name.
Good video, sounds like that guy that broke his arm should’ve spent more time on falls, like judo clubs do.
Yes he shouldn’t have posted his arm for sure it would’ve prevented a major injury
I like both I’m more self defense more than art battle both are effective
i wrestling in Hs for 3 year and 20 years later i started bjj and my takedown and takediowns defense is far superior to anyone at my level also your mat awareness and movement is a big help. i do think my explosiveness and fast pace has hurt me since i gass out much quicker
I did Judo when I was a teenager. Our warm up was also running, circuits, and solo drills, before start the class itself. Now, I am over 50 doing BJJ and I would love to be able to do that, but it is not posiible. Yep, light warm up, technique and light drill and rolling is perfect for me now. My joints need time to warm up. If I feel like a good day I can roll more enthusiastically, if not, I pull guard and play surviving.
Im 47 and thinking about doing bjj. I have to stretch out real good and warm up before anything. Really good shape for my age but taking any classes I'm sure I'm in for alot of ass whoopings to come. If I don't try I will never know. Have a close friend 7th degree Dan. He started training me. It was intense he was so fast but had the control to not injure me. Unfortunately he fell off then moved away. So sad. Free instructions for life but I have to move to Dallas Ft.Worh area. So I'm researching right now. He said I am quick learner. Hope for me yet. Respect for all of you in the bjj world
Spent so much time learning to escape the guard. Meanwhile in a real fight I’d stay in the guard and throw punch’s.
When I had ~1 year experience as a white belt I trained BJJ with some D3 wrestlers, and even with those guys who never trained BJJ, I could feel they had a really strong base and top pressure, and were very good with rotational movement. The BJJ experience I had was able to overcome it, but I’m fairly certain that legit D1 wrestlers would’ve wrecked me. Once I started training wrestling in addition to bjj, I did seem to gain another level because wrestling conditioning seems to be even more challenging than jiu jitsu and a lot of BJJ schools don’t seem to stress wrestling. I personally found wrestling to be a really difficult but fun discipline to practice
Really fair comparison i have to say 👌🏻
Thanks brotha
My son's bbj school brings in an All American national champion to work with them all the time. Honestly its more of a small MMA gym Brandon the owner is a bbj black belt but pushes everyone to become as well rounded as possible.
You gonna do a video comparing catch wrestling?
I could, catch wrestlers are bad ass man. Very different style but very effective
WE needed a match rickson gracie vs Alexandre Karelin during the beginning of the 90'.
A grappling match,not vale tudo.
Just to see a jolie combat.
A timeless video.
To the questions you posted at the end.
Me: third week bjj, 40, wrestled jr high and high school.
Conditioning and strength is the responsibility of the participant. In school sports, you build that into the program and you have 2.5 or so hours 6 days a week to do it. Rolling appears to be excellent conditioning. You can run, bike, etc-these are good things, but once my body has adjusted, I’ll be trying to get at least two rolling days and one fundamentals day per week, supplementing with one strength day and one(what I would call) deep cardio day per week. Especially for us small frame guys, less is more with weights-sleep and nutrition right there in importance. Climbing-hope to try it this year, might be of benefit as well.
While I was at one club the head instructor who was from another gym changed every move nearly weekly even something as basic as passing guard was slightly modified at least 5 times and it sucks when you finally get it down just to be told no we do it this way now and that was nearly every move we learnt would be tweaked like I get it to keep up but how do you develop basics when it changes weekly?
Personally I’ve experience the same which is where I was coming from. I know how frustrating it can be to learn like that. Thanks for your input, happy thanksgiving!
If someone gets hurt from doing a takedown wouldn’t you want to practice them more and learn how to fall?
Absolutely. Our gym goes over falling at every basics class but Sometimes people still do it wrong when going live by posting arms, not tucking chin, etc.
I did judo as a kid formed my base wredtling in high school and bjj as an adult my take is the individual and their mind mean everything plus their willingness to evolve and not fall into a hole with one art over the other
I grew up with judo. Wrestled in high school and got into BJJ in adulthood. I can tell you I walked on the mat very comfortable. Now that I've learned and practiced some basics for BJJ I find wrestling and judo is a huge asset.
Good points. I've been doing judo for years. We practice falling every class and I'm 44. If a blue belt doesn't know how to fall, there's something missing in the curriculum.
First off let me say I've been doing BJJ for 20 years and have a school in middle TN. I say this just so you know that I do know a little bit about the subject.
1. I agree that most BJJ schools do not drill enough. There are a few reasons for this. In wrestling you are chosen for a team. If you don't measure up you are kicked off that team pretty quickly. In BJJ you pay to train there and most people get pretty bored practicing the same tired drills over and over so I end up having to "trick" them into reps. When someone is paying you have to balance reps with keeping their interest. The wrestlers approach is better no doubt but this is why it is the way it is. You also had a great point about the age of wrestlers vs BJJ guys.
2. The reason why there really can't be a set time frame in stone on rank is simple because of too many variables. Lets say two students both train for 15 years. One has to take several extended breaks due to injury or life in general. He is also less athletic than the other guy. What if one is lazy? Do you really think they will both be on a black belt level at the same time? Time is means very little overall. I can give someone a rough estimate, but that's it.
3. Do wrestlers have Superior take downs? Of course! That's 90% of what they do. BJJ guys have better submissions...lol This is a given.
4. I'm 44 years old, I don't see many well conditioned 44 year old wrestlers still practicing regularly. There is a reason for this.
All great points my friend. The first point about it being a business and having to keep customers and not a team per say is very true.
@A Lakonophile Yes but catch isn't trained in the same way. Its taught more like an old school BJJ class.
@A Lakonophile But thats what the convo was about. But if we are talking BJJ vs catch it could still be argued the sub game in BJJ is better.
@A Lakonophile As I said, its about how things are trained. Will wrestlers (non-catch) get the takedown? Likely. Do they know what to do after that? Nope.
Catch wrestling isn't the same thing and if trained with a gi looks a lot like BJJ without guard.
We were talking about the non-submission wrestling. I'm still waiting for the kosen judo guys to pop in. For some reason those and the catch guys always have to chime to these conversations.
@A Lakonophile In the context of the conversation "catch" has no place. The convo was about wrestling as it is practiced in most high-schools and colleges.
It would be like me chiming in on a convo about judo not having great subs on the ground and stating that because BJJ is based off of judo it actually does have great subs. No, it doesn't the way it is practiced.
What I know about catch is based off of a few friends who train it and watching people train it. I'm not bagging on catch. Maybe the op should have been a bit more clear that he was talking about any non-catch wrestling but that seems to be implied many times in his video and my comments.
Most definitely takedown are where most of the injuries come from. For most people who are 9nkybtra8ning for fun its just not worth the risk of blowing out your knee and loosing a year of training.
I’d have to agree based on what I’ve seen as well especially with the causal bjj practitioner who has no desire to compete
Big thing he mentions there, a real great BJJ guy could care less about take downs if you tell him I'm going take you down, he'll just fall back on the ground and say OK I'm down here jump on into my guard with a smile on his face
I wrestled from age 5 all the way through high school. Jiu-jitsu was a different game. No problems being dominant and taking good position, but figuring out what to do besides smother and going straight for a snap-or-tap. The flow thing is tricky but it feels like a regular scramblebsometimes.