Peter Boghossian and James Lindsay in LA: Joe Rogan
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- čas přidán 1. 11. 2018
- Certified Grievance Scholars Peter Boghossian and James Lindsay hit LA in the lead-up to The Joe Rogan Experience podcast.
Check out the full chat at Joe Rogan Experience #1191 - Peter Boghossian & James Lindsay: • Video
This is a series of videos associated with a feature-length documentary I'm working on about The Grievance Studies Affair. My plan is to play around with some of the footage I gather and upload it here to gauge interest and have a creative outlet while I learn about the complicated subject matter.
My usual sources of film funding are blocked off to me because of the sensitive subject matter and my slow approach. If you think what I'm doing is valuable and you're in a position to help, you can support the project here - / mikenayna
For anyone uncomfortable with Patreon, one-off transfers can be done here: paypal.me/mikenayna
Credit to Joe Rogan and PowerfulJRE for the podcast vision
Featuring James Lindsay, Peter Boghossian & Helen Pluckrose -
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peterboghossian
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#GrievanceStudies #PeterBoghossian #JamesLindsay #HelenPluckrose #MikeNayna #SokalSquared #GrievanceStudiesAffair #JoeRogan #PowerfulJRE - Krátké a kreslené filmy
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I said it before on Twitter. But Mike, your style of filming, editing, is really F*cking amazing. And what perfectly suits this story. Bless you brother!
Thanks, Milan. You're a good man with fine taste :)
It was one of my favorite JRE episodes I've ever seen, and I've seen alot of them. It's funny that they were concerned about using to many "big words".
I get it though, "hermeneutic" is a good example here. The grievance studies lingo is a complete mess and there's not much point in explaining it unless you're dedicating a segment to it.
@@EmanuelHoogeveen Epistemology is pretty easily explained for people that don't understand it though.
Maybe their percentages aren't that off, but there are most definitely people in his audience who are very much on point when it comes to _big words_ or are even it their field. Joe's listeners are not only huge but super diverse.
@@EmanuelHoogeveenI took it as they didn't want to alienate any of the listeners. But if Joe doesn't understand something, you can be damn sure he's gonna ask about it. I could be wrong, though. Maybe they were on a time constraint and felt that avoiding those words would be more effective than taking the time to delve into the definitions. Maybe they felt defining words was completely outside the main points they were trying to cover. In any event, i still found it funny that it was a discussion before the podcast.
No condescension there, "big words" might have been better described as "specialized terminology". A lot of this is legitimately complicated philosophy that's complicated further through a filter of specialized terminology. I suspect it's spread as far as it has because people outside of the academy get tangled up in the specialized terms. Much of it can be communicated without the academic wank words so we're trying our best to work around them and not alienate anyone from the discussion. Less so on this channel but for something with a broad audience like Rogan it strikes me as important. Would you agree?
I work for a University. So much corruption here too in Australia, also misuse of tax payers money.
The biggest corruption i see in Australian universities is the dramatic discrepancy between how local students and international students get marked. I have seen international students turn in assignments that have 35%+ similarity and have parts in a different language and still get credits. I have to work twice as hard to just get a credit as they do.
Support these men! Left, right, center doesn’t matter!!!!!! Take back education!!
I've watched half of the podcast so far and you guys did very well. I can really identify with your situation, being a lefty who sometimes questions the logic of other lefties and then gets accused of being far right for simply wanting to have a rational discussion. I know that there is a cost to what you're doing and I appreciate it.
Same here. And it seems to be something that is happening in the entire west. I'm from Amsterdam personally, the same situation going on here.
I'm here because of JRE ,... loved it
Same here! And it was CZcams that recommended me this channel after watching JRE... Subscribed!
Me to! Great work Helen, Peter and James. Keep it up. Subscribed!
Bring people back. The word needs to get out in July 2020 more than ever. Share this video series.
Just discovered James's appearances on JRE and as a college graduate, I recognize how important this is what you all are doing. So thank you. Also, Mike- thank you for what you said in the clip- fairly intelligent people DO want to learn new vocabulary. We know one never stops learning, and I'm always looking to expand my vocabulary. Big words don't scare us, as long as we're given some context. Thanks again for all that you've done/are doing!
I like the music choices so far on your outtakes clips. It has a sense of whimsy yet seriousness that fits the subject matter well.
Thanks, Kieth.
You guys did great! I listen to Joe all the time and this was a stand out - irrespective of the fact that I’ve been following you guys for ages now
Joe Rogan was loving those big words. Problematize haha
is equity big word or small word?
@@Meowrian smol word.
The pretend big words was a hilarious part of the interview.
Joe knows how to do an interview.
I noticed you would bring up several funny subjects at once and he would explore them one at a time instead of exploding all the humor at once. It kept the entire interview fresh and amusing.
I love the behind the scenes prior to the JRE! Especially considering the JRE is where I discovered these folks.
Peter and James were one of my favorite Rogan podcasts. Cheers.
Just watched the Joe Rogan Experience #1191 and came here to see your page. Hold on... You're going to explode this channel from the exposure. You need to get more content on this channel as fast as possible.
Glad JRE put me onto this channel. Good luck with your project.
I love your shots & editing.
Def one of my top five Rogen podcasted. Keep up the excellent work.
brilliant stuff guys. First time Ive come across your work. Keep it lit.
Wow these videos are so well made. The intro in the plane with the sunlight oof. great shot :). Thanks to Gadfather interview with Pete, i found these complementary videos about the grievances studies epic. Good job, enjoyed watching all of them.
Awesome thing you guys are doing glad to see it getting more exposure
YES! So glad you guys got on Joe's show.
This is how I learn about you all. I saw this pod and I immediately subscribed to all of you on Twitter.
These guys are brilliant. And Nayna does an excellent job with ques and interactions. Keep em coming.
Just watched the podcast, AWESOME! Thank you, keep up the good work, guys.
I've watched about 5 of your videos after discovering you about an hour or so ago. I've got to say, Mr Mike Nayna - the quality of your filmmaking, including editing is excellent! I was going to say, excellent "for youtube" but, no, it's just excellent...full stop! You might just be the Werner Herzog of the CZcams generation. A+
You've gone and made my day. Thanks, mate.
Already watched it. Very good
More people need to see this channel. Keep up the good work.
That podcast brought me here 👍🏻👍🏻
So good to see you guys making head-way with this. JRE will boost your numbers by a lot.
You guys were fantastic on Rogan. Never knew about you before, now an avid follower.
0:51 he stole the napkin!
it re-emerges at 1:51 !
good eye, LOL that clepto armenian!! ;p
I didn't know you were there. I wish you were on the podcast with them.
Just watched it. It was my first full episode of a JRE podcast. I usually just watch the clips, but this had me hooked from the beginning. This is amazing work you're doing. We don't yet have full crazy identity politics here in Denmark but it's showing its ugly head occasionally and definitely on the humanities in university. I remember when I took a rhetoric class during my masters degree and I saw a chapter in our book about "feminist rhetoric". I almost laughed my ass of, but my teacher didn't think it was so funny! :D
Peter shirtless is why I’m here. Schwiing!
Yall are great
An awesome video, made even better by Peter randomly taking his shirt off in the streets of LA :)
I appreciate Helen for not censoring her use of "big words." That's how people learn. If people don't know a word they can look it up and will have learned something new. I don't even talk down to kids because they're smart and pick up language quickly. Please don't censor your use of big words when discussing important issues such as these!
A legendary podcast
Fantastic work. One of the most important events in contemporary academia. I think it's safe to say that if your audience doesn't have a concept for the word ethics, it may be worth your time to briefly summarize or discuss it.
Thank you to all concerned for your bravery in exposing this irrationality that's being imposed on us. We desperately need people like you now and greatly appreciate it.
Did I hear they took the interview down? CZcams or something. ...I'll have to check if its still up.
Rogan is the man of podcast!! Huge audience!!
Is this podcast able to be seen anywhere?
Love the music choices. It makes it more entertaining, and helps to get into the mindset of what you're trying to say (like most good music choices in film). The music from the video where you compared (through cuts) the "grievence studies" claims to religious, and then eventually to the extreme-right was particularly poignant ("Postmodern and the Faith of Social Justice")
Loved the Podcast.... I even sent it to my GF whos doing her thesis defense in 3 weeks.
I guess im attempting to problematize our relationship.
I love the Tron like theme music you use, what is it?
My bet is that the jre episode will expose more people to this than anything else. Rogan's audience is huge and widely varied.
These guys too nice
Who does your soundtrack for these?, they're pretty cool, reminds me of the Qatsi trilogy music by Phillip Glass.
I see that ideology coming in Europe, and in universities too! Here, only people interested in american politics/culture are aware of that phenomenon and the bad consequences it can generate
I just discovered Jim, Pete and Helen recently and it’s been in our education system for years.
One of the funniest rogan podcast
I'm so sad that I am 2 years late to learning about this piece of fascinating history. Now this joe rogan episode isnt on youtube anymore. Guess I have to get a Spotify account...
anybody got a figure what the subscriber count was pre-JRE? How much of a bump was it?
You lost me at Epistemology
like intro music
I love these people.
"No big words"...... Joe asks what "performativity" means in the first 5 minutes.
the corporate world must be laughing all the way to the bank,having this adolescent social issue to distract students from the economy.
Song?
dat filmmaking doe
Thanks, bra :)
Um... Peter without a shirt is looking pretty good!
No hermaneutic? Gadamer me up, baby
I would've loved to hear them discuss hermaneutics
Letter to the IDW,
First of all, I imagine I speak for many others when I say the following, “Thank you!”.
Thanks for being a call in the wilderness. A voice of sanity that has kept many of us from believing WE were the ones that had gone mad. Without you, I’m certain without you the many might have wandered lost believing themselves to be alone in a increasingly terrifying cultural landscape.
CZcams is the haystack and you are the proverbial needle. Perhaps a better analogy is that you are a collection of rough diamonds scattered across a coastline of the shells and sand of less useful ideas. I’m sure I am not alone in feeling fortunate to have stumbled upon such treasures as you represent.
Despite your cool name and “bad boy” intellectual status, your membership, to me, seems less like a fraternity of elites and more like the “Island of Misfit Toys”. The varied backgrounds and differing profiles make it difficult to see how it can all work together (albeit, inefficiently) but somehow it does.
So, who is this Intellectual Dark Web? Who has the secret decoder ring to get in the treehouse and who doesn’t? Let me break it down as I see it.
Jordan Peterson: An incredibly deep thinker and philosopher. Arrogant and confident he stumbled into the spotlight by simply having the courage to say no to something others had simply acquiesced to. However, unlike a custodian who wanders onto a stage, it has became obvious that he had the “chops”to be a major player. He is the proverbial “right man in the right place at the right time” bringing a clear and cohesive message to many who had been yearning to hear it. All the while being scrutinized by sceptics and enemies whose attempts to discredit him failed because of their lack of preparation, respect and hubris. At times though his limited range is revealed when conversations turn to areas where he is not well versed. I also fear that he has begun to repeat himself and while the breadth of his thought is undeniable, it is also clear, to me at least, that he is running out of intellectual merchandise, ironically at the moment when his “brand” is at its zenith.
Dave Rubin: Charming and affable, he represents, to me, the least of the group in some respects. While he is an under appreciated interviewer, whose disarming and inquisitive nature seems to bring out the best in his guests, he also seems to lack the educational background and intellectual wherewithal help support the group’s narrative.Despite these failings, he seems to be the most excited, or at least the most excitable, of the group. Reminiscent of the tiny pup bouncing energetically around his massive bulldog friend in a Warner Bros cartoon, at times he seems to be more like a mascot than a peer. Despite all of this, he is vital to their membership because he is the glue that bonds the others and his desire to be part of something greater fuels his passion to see the IDW become a movement not just collection of frustrated elites.
Sam Harris: In every film or novel about an outlaw group there needs to be the one person the viewer sees as ambiguous. A disenfranchised nobleman who hangs with Robin Hood, but as spectators we wonder, where do his loyalties truly lie? Is he truly part of the group or will he betray them when they need him the most? Brilliant and successful long before the coming of IDW, Harris looks like he has been swept up in its tide without really ever pledging allegiance to anything other than HIS perception of truth. To the casual bystander, he seems arrogant and more impressed with himself than he is with others. However, his courage, intensity and the incisive nature of both his wit and intellect are undeniable. The big but is, will he be there for his friends in a big fight? That remains to be seen.
Ben Shapiro: The fast talking conservative that brings diversity to the group. He seems to be genuinely interested in the end goal of discussion, not as an intellectual enterprise but in how it will make his nation a better place to live not just for himself but for his family and future generations. He seems patient and charitable in discussions avoiding denigrating others or trying to take a moral high ground while at the same time always standing up for what he believes. He seems to have grown tired of rhetoric and more interested in fostering discussion among the majority of Americans not among the fringe. Like Douglas Murray, he is a born debater, who ardently defends his position with wit, intelligence and, most importantly, facts.
Douglas Murray: The aforementioned foreigner of the group. Quietly brilliant and bristling with intellect, his posh accent and elite education belie a street fighting nature to defend notions and values he holds dear. While not always available because of his proximity and homegrown concerns, I believe he would prove an important ally in connecting the continents and the like minded people who inhabit them.
Joe Rogan: If the group was the Dirty Dozen, then I picture Rogan as Jim Brown. He doesn’t really see himself as part of it and even gently mocks its existence. However, he commands legions of loyal followers who recognize him as authentic and likeminded. Deceptively bright his ability to engage dialogue is unparalleled and his fearless nature is daunting.
Eric Weinstein: My favourite Ghostbuster. He is the, off the charts, bright light of these intellectual heavyweights. He seems to me like a master weaver, working a loom to bring all of the threads together. It is as though he is looking ten or twenty years in the future, not unlike Sam Harris, a visionary thinker who can’t help but see the big picture. Try as he might, he struggles to relate to the “laymen” the breadth of his vision despite using clever and quirky pop culture references. Probably a byproduct of being so brilliant, bridging the gap to others must be infuriating. Yet, he seems almost as interested as Dave Rubin in forging a movement out of all the seemingly idle conversation.
Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying: While it seems logical to link the brothers, these two seem more the likely pairing. Like the others, brilliant, articulate and forward thinking, they still seem apart from the rest of the group. They seem to still be reeling from the betrayal of the left. They failed to see that their progressive brothers and sisters had more sinister goals in mind and did not share their altruistic values. This lovely pair seem the least interested in their club membership (with perhaps the exception of Rogan) despite perhaps having a justifiable rationale for revenge against their former peers. Like cult survivors, you think they would want to see them suffer for what they did to them. Instead they seem to be working their own angle more focused on their original academic goals.
Honourable mentions: There are other brilliant minds working towards similar ends. Steven Pinker, Peter Boghossian, James Lindsay, Helen Pluckrose, Brendan O’Neil Heather MacDonald, Glenn Loury, Coleman Hughes, Christina Hoff-Sommers, Camille Paglia, Gad Saad, Amy Wax, Jonathan Haidt, Greg Lukianoff
Rogues Gallery: Like any noble band of outlaws there are the unsavoury types existing on their fringe that, while not part of the group, share some common goals. Despite this there always seems to be something somewhat untoward about their motives and methods. Steven Crowder, Gavin McInnes, Stephan Molyneux, Lauren Southern, Milo Yiannopoulos
Sadly though, like the dog that caught the car, the IDW seems to have no idea what to do with the incredible support they have received. Good people, sick and tired of a distorted cultural narrative are now realizing that the IDW is all talk, no action. Soon they will return to their lives feeling more than a little betrayed that something that began with such promise will fizzle into a “pay as you go” bitchfest that will accomplish nothing other than to make the members of the IDW wealthy. Strong minded, competent, and intellectual people are being turned away from action because the IDW didn’t seem to believe or care that people would want to support them in a meaningful way other than writing a cheque or buying a ticket to a talk. Shame on you all for getting our hopes up. Personally, I have attempted to contact everyone listed here in hopes of lending a hand with a fight for what I believe could be the pivotal point in the history of Western civilization to this point (hyperbole, I know) with no reply. Maybe I don’t have the right letters after my name or I can’t write the proper sized cheque but I thought this wasn’t about that. I thought it was about meeting the needs of the majority of people who live and work away from the extreme fringes, the ones that have had compelled thought and ideology forced on them in recent years. The people who fear for their future and those of their children. Maybe it was never about us. More the pity if it wasn’t.
So. Sadly, while I renew my thanks for showing that we are not alone, the IDW is turning out to be a siren’s song and nothing more. A shame really. I’m certain many of us would have stood beside you in a fight against a cultural authoritarianism. I guess we will never know how that would have gone. We will, instead, have to stand on the sidelines and watch our betters talk and talk knowing it will lead to little or no change and that we will ultimately be the ones who pay dearly.
Grievance scholars..... LMFAO :)
I prefer you use big words...
Never assume the intelligence of the audience,
we get enough of that kind of condescension from the Mainstream & Hollywood.
This is the reason alternative media is blossoming and legacy media is dying.
Don't make the same mistakes.
I don't presume to speak for them, but I don't think it's condescension. The problem with words like the one he mentioned, "hermeneutic", is that explaining them takes a lot of time and it's ultimately pretty pointless because they're mostly used by post-modernists trying to obfuscate. These guys want to get their message out, not get stuck explaining the demented minutia of grievance studies (though admittedly the segment on problematizing everything was pretty entertaining).
Echoing the statements of Emanuel, and firing your same sentiment back at you, never assume the intentions of a speaker or conversational partner. I really don't think their intent was to make people feel like they're "assuming the intelligence of their audience" at all, these two just wants their ideas to be easily palatable for non-academics or people whom do not engage in academia. It can be a lot to digest first hearing all of this, and if you have no context upon which to frame it big ten dollar words surely do not aid in achieving that goal.
100% This. We all have the whole f*cking internet at our fingertips. It takes seconds to look things up. Everything else is an excuse. So use the big words. Especially since they are essential in understanding these issues. If lazy people don't educate themselves it is on them. The others will take the effort.
I totally agree with the sentiment of this. A big reason I bailed from working in Australian television was because there's an assumption the audience has a learning disability. I'm not exaggerating, the condescension is staggering. This is different though, "big words" might have been better described as "specialized terminology". A lot of this is legitimately complicated philosophy that's complicated further through a filter of specialized terminology. I suspect it's spread as far as it has because people outside of the academy get tangled up in the specialized terms. While many people want to educate themselves and learn the terms it seems that self-contained content resonates with a much wider audience. Complicated terms can usually be skirted around in a few sentences so it seems better to me to do that and not risk alienating people.
ba, ba ba
And no James, you don't lose a quarter of your audience with the words ethics ;) And if you do, with all due respect, you shouldn't want them as you audience anyway :P
I think he was just stating that as example to demonstrate just how key it was to be picky with language in a public appeal.