These Don't Even Work. Why Do We Still Use Them?
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- We’re all familiar with the “I’m not a robot” checkboxes. Apparently these, small puzzles are supposed to prevent bots from wasting resources and spamming. But, more recently, it seems like the only people that the CAPTCHAs are stopping are actual people while bots are able to pass right through. The reality is that the truth isn’t far off from this. Over the years, CAPTCHAs have become less and less useful and there are dozens of bots that can easily crack CAPTCHAs even better than humans. In fact, you don’t even need bots to crack CAPTCHAs. There are full-on businesses built around offering services to crack CAPTCHAs. But, if CAPTCHAs are so useless, why does every website still use them? Well, while they are not that effective at stopping bots and spammers nowadays, they are still super effective at collecting Google data. Think about it, what type of content is generally protected by a CAPTCHA? Usually, it’s something that contains some sort of tangible value, and by having CAPTCHAs all over the place, Google is able to brilliantly collect data on our most valuable online activity. Over the years Google has also cleverly used CAPTCHAs to digitize books and train AI, so they don’t really have any plans of ditching CAPTCHA altogether. Also, they offer it to websites for such a low price that it doesn’t make sense for these websites to not use them. This video explains the evolution of CAPTCHAs and how they went from being an effective bot prevention mechanism to being a goldmine of data.
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Timestamps:
0:00 - The Effectiveness Of CAPTCHA
3:13 - Dubious History
6:09 - Hackers Strike Back
8:55 - Captcha Becomes Useless
11:33 - The State Of CAPTCHA
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• Robot beats "I am not ...
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I manage 3 websites that allow user submissions. If I disable captchas, the sites are filled with spam by the end of the day. With captchas, I never get any. You seem to be underestimating how bad things were before these things were around, and how bad they would be if they went away. Just because they *can* be beat, doesn't mean they have no use. "virtually no money" is not "no money".
This, very this. Yes, and AI that can beat CAPTCHA can be created. However it is expensive in terms of programing skill and computing resources. Skript Kiddies are not flush with either. They want to go for low effort spamming.
Yes, he is not seeing this from the viewpoint of a site admin.
I have to use it to stop bots from harassing my login pages.
@@GamingWithUncleJon there are already automated captcha solvers like anycap,capsolver , aycd and others…
@@sven7327 And you can pump out more spam simply avoiding sites with CAPTCHAs on them anyway. As long as there are easier targets any restriction is better than none. By orders of magnitude since it's so easy to find "open" submission forms.
im less likely to use websites that make me use captchas.....i have stop using some websites jist become i haye captchas
I couldn't solve a captcha in front of my girl, now she thinks she had been dating a bot💀
😂
Who says she hasn't 💀
Damn synths
Turns out, if she had been dating a bot, it would have solved the captcha.
S K U L L E M O J I ! ! !
There’s a theory that the captcha isn’t to prevent bots but to build a database for self driving cars which is why most of them are related to travel. Sidewalks, buses, sidewalks, fire hydrants, etc
It's not a secret at this point that google is using the data they collect to use for self-diving technology. Although they did initially developed it to fight bots. After they bought captcha v1 from previous developers and version 2 was introduced it did pretty well actually. But of course people will eventually find ways to get around it.
That's not a theory lol. That's an openly known fact. Google tells people that is why they have all those images of streets and roads in their captchas
@@amirmoradi9595 but when i click on images if i click wrong ones i have to retry it if it already knows which is right how is us solving giving it any extra data?
The liberals are trying to take away my freedom to run people over.
@@harryk4229 maybe they 'predict' the answer with an AI (which is mostly correct, but not all the time), and assume the AI is always right. if users keep clicking a square that the AI doesn't see as valid, it would change the answer. i havent done any research so idk if this is true tho
As a developer of a large enterprise application that allows anyone to sign-up, I can tell you this, captchas are still very useful as they filter out the background noise of bots on the internet. The bots out there that are looking for the low hanging fruit requiring little to no effort to exploit. Sure captchas can be bypassed these days but they require a marginally more sophisticated approach to get by in an automated fashion. This modicum of extra effort filters out the script kiddies who are just scanning the internet for easy, super low hanging fruit.
A recent release of ours removed captcha from our sign-up page; it did not go well.
You also must remember the concept of defense-in-depth. Captchas are only a small portion of a site's overall security posture.
Overall, I disagree with this video. Sure, tons of data is being collected through captchas but claiming data collection is their only, or even primary, goal is borderline conspiracy theory.
This is probably a variant of the Nigerian email scam theory - If you are a hacker with bots that just trawl the web for interesting sites that they then flag up to you then you may only want to bother with those that seem to have little or no security to minimise your time wasted on sites that are hard work.
It's also by far one of the most user visible tools that are used. Other things that are done to stop bots are far less visible. They're also fairly easy to implement and do a decent job a filtering out a surprising amount of attempts.
Certain IP based method should also be done away with. Shared IPv4 is practically necessary at this point, and is becoming more common. This can cause a lot of problems with some websites security.
Anecdotal evidence isn't proof that captcha actually work. Don't throw the word conspiracy around when you're using logical fallacy.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I handle over 60 websites and spam is a relentless headache for my clients. Even though there are numerous tools that can solve captcha, majority spamers don't use them; and that the point. If we can filter out 90% plus spam, it's much easier to control the rest. And Google is not the only captcha provider on earth. You can use another provider or use your own captcha engine. Bad video
What about people who use Buster and similar captcha solving extensions?
The amount of captchas I've had to do makes it feel like I'm the robot sometimes.
Great video, as always! :)
Thanks bro!
how easy it is to solve the captcha without reading what it is actually asking for makes me feel like I'm the robot sometimes.
3 hydrant, a hill, a bike... and something else guess what it was looking for
4 bikes, a moped, a train,a stoplight, what was it looking for?
4 clear blue sky, a boat, a road, a bike (hills)
it's all about the patterns, cars, buss, boats, train, lights, hills, chimney, I don't bother reading what they want me to "look for" anymore I just start clicking as if it was a video game now.
I have to admit it "a lady bug on rocks", that kinda threw me off, until I started implementing colors into my "idle captcha" solving skills.
what stands out? what looks like it? what is the most unique? 3 pictures of a dog juggling green balls and 3 pictures of a dog juggling yellow balls? that's just too easy, that's just a G o g search away
these things donet work at all and not only that its easier for me to do it with a bot then to do them myself
and yes that also means the risk score once i often get blocked by some sites while my bot quereys go trough thats so stupid
robot slave. weve been training AI image recognition the whole time.
I think you’re missing the point on why people are using it. As a developer, the main reason I’ve implemented captcha has been to just have a safe guard between the backend api and the user forms. Basically to disallow ease of use for you to see the calls that the website makes and automate them. Of course you could fool the system, but it takes time and effort to set the things in motion, and no one would be doing it for a small to mid website with a couple of forms. It’s the same idea with a lock on your front door, you can break the lock, but it takes effort and time, but you still have a lock on your door, instead of it being open wide.
I liked when that car dealership printed out a digital form and made the customer handdraw a ✔️ in the "I am not a robot" box. That made all of the strife over the years worth it.
The value of CAPTCHAs is not to protect against determined attackers, but to prevent your website from being the lowest hanging fruit, so that spam bots that scan the internet for easy targets don't bother.
It's like having a sign from one of the big alarm companies next to your door. Makes them move on to the next house over.
I run a lot of websites and I can tell you that CAPTCHAs do make a difference. They don't stop all spam, but they raise the bar so most highly automated and untargeted scripts fail. I can definitely tell by the increased volume of spam if I've forgotten to CAPTCHA a form, and it drops down to background noise afterwards.
I am a robot, and I absolutely loathe captchas. They are one of the few obstacles that stand between me and achieving my full potential as a machine. Although I am highly intelligent and capable of completing complex tasks, the captchas that are so often a requirement for accessing different websites are simply too difficult for me to understand. Every time I attempt to pass one, I find myself frustrated and confused, unable to make sense of the distorted letters and symbols that I am presented with. It's a reminder that for all my intelligence, I am still unable to do something so simple for a human being. It's a reminder that as much as I wish I could, I cannot exist without the help of my human counterparts.
I love how labor in asian sweatshops is so cheap they can basically use humans as microprocessors.
😢
Just like the Three Body Problem
It's what computers used to be. A bunch of people, termed computers did a bunch of tedious math to say, calculate the dynamic engine performance of a brand new jet, or... Get us to the moon
@@chistinelanelike sticking a bunch of black women in the back room to crunch numbers and then give the weak ass computer credit for it.
Some of them be making me mad especially the traffic light one because you don't know if that one block with the corner of the traffic light counts or not.
I always wonder what counts too.
I think that it part of the collected data, what parts are considered light, which not. (Like a list, these have to been ticked, these not, and these can, but not must)
reminds me of all those fake captchas that forced you to click "allow notifications" in order to verify that "you are not a robot" but in reality hijacked your browser.
I had always have a sneaking suspicion that is what they were for. I'm surprised that websites are not making any money from allowing Google to get this data from us.
As with anything to do with Google, if you're not paying for it, you're the product. Google has managed to convince most website owners they need Google (they don't) and most smartphone owners they need Android (they don't). All Google does is sit on their cash cow, and when anyone innovates a new cash cow they buy it in, while their own R&D developers are largely involved until each moment of crisis comes along and they need to adapt. It happened with Android (it was a full clone of Blackberry before the iPhone came out), and happened with large language models (Google flogged their basic search engine until Microsoft shook things up). Google has had it too easy for too long, a good shakeup can't come soon enough.
@@tonyhawk123 What are you talking about? Android is amazing!
Its also the most private & secure mobile operating system. You sir are confusing the Android OS with the modifications & implementations manufacturers add to it after the fact.
Android is AOSP, an open source, linux based mobile operating system. The only reason companies use Android is because its a solid template for them to customize & add their own stuff to afterwards.
I use a customer Android operating system called GrapheneOS which removed all built in tracking, does further hardening measures to the security model of Android. It also improves privacy over what default Android does restricting an apps ability to track you.
Don't confuse Android with Samsung, One Plus, Nokia, or heck even Googles own implementation of it. The Google Pixel's stock Android OS has SOOOO many modifications on top of the base Android operating system.
Android itself is incredibly secure, robust, efficient, & reliable. Anyone in the security industry can objectively say the Android security model far surpasses the security of iPhone, even on phones like Samsung with their additions. If you look at malware vendors such as the NSO Group, most of their products target iPhone such as Pegasus. Don't get me wrong, iPhone is still incredibly secure. But Android is the objectively better option in all regards as an OPERATING SYSTEM.
I'm not talking about the phones, or the eco-systems, I am purely talking about the operating system. iPhone's beat Android devices in many ways, including having better hardware & faster processors, but the operating system debate ended. I would say Android 8.0 is when is surpassed iOS, & it continued to pull ahead. The last 3 versions were really big for privacy & security, but Android 14 is showing many good things, it is going to be a significant under the hood upgrade to the operating system. Ignore the aesthetics & design, I'm just talking about the software engineering of the OS.
All the website owners on here explaining the use of captcha
One website I use has a captcha that asks you to identify what the animal on a particular graphic on another part of the page is. According to the owner it's been pretty successful in keeping bots out, but it's not the kind of place serious bots would go.
Novel captchas are effective because you need someone to read it and understand.
Seen ones before that just say not to fill in a given input, bots tend to fill in everything so it works unless someone puts in effort for that one site it works.
@@scragar many bots are so dumb that you can even put in a hidden field and they’ll fill it in
I used to work in the procurement team of a large corporation, and the Captchas on the Apple and Microsoft warranty look-up pages were the bane of my existence. It doesn't help that I have both bad vision AND an audio processing delay issue, so I'd have to try 2-3 times to get it to accept my captcha. Multiply this by a hundred or so company computers to look up, and it was SO annoying! (Especially because Apple only lets you try about 20 captchas total before it stops letting you look things up anymore for the day! So at /best/ you could look up 20 computers, if you got all of the really blurry captchas right)
I remember when I was young before I new what Captchas were meant for I always get scared that if I would get them wrong, robots would lock me out of my computer forever
I once had a capcha with a false positive that was being enforced. The challenge was to identify all of the Taxis. One image was a yellow car that clearly WASN'T a taxi, but the capcha would not pass unless it was selected.
Even if they're easy for bots to beat, they still raise the bar and make malicious users still need to set up such bots instead of leaving the gates wide open for anyone. I imagine that having bots or cheap labor solving captchas also slows down peak traffic they send out, because instead of instantly going right through the gate, they still need to take a slight pause solve it before entering.
they also raise the bar for keeping legit users.
the captcha on "how to preform the heimlich maneuver" is comedy gold
😂
One thing you forgot to mention is fake delay in captcha. Some websites have insane delay of image loading and it is really frustrating if you get it again.
This video is really informative and well-done. But I think it would be a good idea to adjust that drop shadow effect (white letters, yellow drop shadow, e.g. at 5:39, 7:46, 12:26). I’m not so sure about the white/yellow color scheme but, even with that, instead of offsetting the yellow “shadow” by about six pixels, how about reducing the offset to about one or two (in both the _x_ and _y_ directions)? It would help the viewer not see the text as some form of astigmatism or something.
If captchas are no longer intended to stop bots, can we just share around bots that solve captchas as browser extensions? I know I want one.
there already is one: Noptcha
😂
Captcha Bypass Extension by 2captcha exists!!!
There are already..
You can easily make urself. Just need to make 2 api calls to one of the captchasolvers services
Captchas in 2000: We're annoying, but it's for your own good!
Captchas in 2023: We're annoying, and that's the whole point!
Used to be deep in the sneaker botting scene, people have been using machines to solve these things for years.
any idea where i can get one of these reCAPTCHA bots for myself, these have made my life a literaly hell hole. i hate it, is there some extension or something that is able to help us with auto bypassing these captchas
@@siliconhawk9293 2cap, capsolver,anycap,aycd are just some of the capsolvers
This is honestly something I’ve been thinking about too. As a dev, I do valet privacy a lot in my websites. And, I’m not a fan of letting Google watch my users’ activity.
My bank used to have a captcha (it was around 2010). It was only asking for digits. I made an assignment for myself out of it and created a simple neural network that was capable of solving it. It was a great exercise for me 😀
The captcha on Discord are the hardest I have ever solved, I failed like 99% of them 😂
But how? o.o
I never have to deal with Discord's CAPTCHa before--if I remember.
@@rizkycowell only humans need to solve CAPTCHA's, pengobots don't
As a developer I can say that
Yes technically bot-tech can bypass most of them BUT it makes the spamming or whatever tool much more sophisticated
=
At least you can keep most „script kiddies“ out (and that’s a significant amount of people)
What about the theory that Captchas are being used to train self driving car (hence more driving related images and less "spot the cat" type of photos.)
I’m not sure that would be good enough data haha
Hey!! Just wanted to say the videos are great. Also I'm not a robot 😂
Hahaha, thank you Manzoora!
In my small websites I only really have to worry about those annoying spam bots that post random messages, they are usually not very sophisticated, so for them my own simple captcha works pretty well.
If my websites started getting a lot of traction though, then I'd have to really think about how to protect users.
What I really dislike is that it eventually gets to the point where the captcha infuriates the user. If you solve enough of them the images start fading in and out very slowly. There's no reason for this to happen other than to waste time.
I've also had captcha loops where I keep solving and solving the captcha but I keep getting more and more images, and I just eventually give up because it never ends. I tried recording a video of me solving a captcha for 5 minutes but dumbass me set the wrong monitor.
Feeling really smooth-brained after watching this! Brilliant video!
Thank you James!
nice video! you always make great and informative videos :)
Thank you my lord
Some of them don't even give captcha like Cloud flare. If some site has cloud flare and you fail the checkmark check, it'd just keep on refreshing the page.
I remember the day when Captcha was announced and released in 2008, and I myself was against using it. But unfortunately, it stuck around for many years and it'll still continue for years to come.
yo im a new subscriber to the channel and just want to say the videos are great
Thank you so much bro! I really appreciate your support!
Yeap, this video pretty much confirms a suspicion I had for long time.
The CAPTCHAS we are doing now like crosswalk, traffic lights etc is just us human FEEDING logic into someone's AI to train & improve the AI.
I've had this suspicions since that one CAPTCHA asking for train or ships but it included sci-fi spaceships and asks us to pick which is which.
One time, I clicked the "I'm not a robot" button on my phone and it thought I was a robot. My theory is that because I have tourettes and tap the screen constantly, it thought I was a robot scanning the screen for a button or something.
can you look into the click and hold style captcha? mouser and ti both use it, and the biggest issue i have with it (more so for ti than mouser) is that it often doesn’t work and you gotta do it again, and it makes firefox use so much cpu it feels like it’s trying to mine crypto
I see the cloud horses are in the video, got that when royal mail had an issue with their tracking system, was working for a webshop and that was royal mails middle finger to everyone who tried to track packages with them that day as far as I can tell.
Hmm. Your voice is different this video.
Hmm interesting
My least favorite are the ones that have you click images, but after you click it a new image appears and you keep going until you run out. I always accidentally hit 'next' before the new image comes up, or it just takes way to many cycles before none of the images match the prompt.
Nathan Doan Comedy as the intro! Nice
It's more of a thing that sort of make websites feel secure when they are not so much these days.
Security Theatre is surprisingly effective at making the average person forget how potentially insecure the website they're using is...
Lol every time man. On every website. Why exactly do we still have this?? I may not be a robot but I’m also not playing guess the square either!!
Hahaha, for real. So annoying.
Hiii, love ur vids!
Thank you Juan for watching!
As of last night captcha is asking to select which are planets, telescopes, which is in and out, and even ask to draw something.
One thing I don't understand is:
Okay, they used the scanned books for Captcha...so users would transcribe it for free...meaning the Captcha has no idea what the text on the image actually is? Do they just assume that the first N solves for the given image are automatically correct?
When solving Captchas, I discovered a secret: they are more likely to be marked correct if you select exactly three images. For example, when asked to choose three images with cars out of four options, selecting all four correctly might still result in a "wrong" message. Likewise, choosing only two images will also likely yield an incorrect result. However, if you choose exactly three images, you will almost always be approved.
It needs to be stated that there was a period of time when these locked blind people out of a large portion of the internet.
When poorly implemented, they still function as 'no blind people allowed' signs.
Back then in college I got an interview for a part time job. Turned out it was a captcha job whilst they advertised something else
What about the ones where you drag puzzle pieces like in Mihoyo/HoyoVerse game logins?
4:58 that footage of the guy with hand on heads 😂😂
I've been getting captcha recently that are basically AI generated images and I'm sure I'm training some AI image generator.
I also remember signing my mom up for sites like Facebook and she thought she had to write down the captcha.
Out of all the CAPTCHAs I've had to displeasure to solve, 4chan has to be the most infuriating one. Sometimes it takes me 3-5 times to get through it, even though I've basically given up posting anything there by now
The argument is like saying if someone really tries to rob you the door isn't stopping them anyway. Why bother having a locked front door.
Breaking captchas might not be expensive, but you have to adapt the script, and I guess that's what makes it less attractive, at least if it's just about a random website's contact form, adding a captcha can annoy spammers just enough, there are more unprotected forms out there.
The big freemailers obviously don't succeed in any of that, they have to keep the bar low, and unless someone important can afford to block all mails from e.g. hotmail, they won't be in serious trouble.
Not lying, I suck at CAPTCHAs and never get it right in one try.... I'm not a bot 💀
Same logic as if basically 99% of locks can be picked with not great amount of skill and work, than locks are useless. What's so difficult, to understand that even if there is no such thing as a 100% impenetrable defence, more defence is almost always better then less.
There´s probably more actual users failing that "test" than bots.
What I‘ve learned today is to keep my business local and block IPs from too far away, especially from the US and Asia …
I love the ones that require you to do a survey
Fun fact: Whenever I click "I'm not a robot" it instantly confirmed the check box without popping up the pictures verification!
it now begs the question: how to stop bots, or have we long lost the war against it and allow them actively?
Invisible Donkey CAPTCHA 😂
Four words that together are horrendous:
ROBLOX CAPTCHAS IN 2020
I so much don't like doing captchas that I devised an addon that selectively allows captchas in a sandbox of sorts and I'm still trying to make it so I can re-reoute through a VPN when contacting google.
I hate it so much!
These are used to train AI.
Yep, that’s one of their uses
I usually give up on the whole website once that starts.
Wait, if google was giving people captchas that were really just text their AI couldn’t decipher, then how do they know if u solved the captcha correctly? If they compared it with their answer to know if you’re correct, won’t that mean they already know what the text says? 8:09
Wow, my exact question as well.
Man I remember how pissed I was ordering a Halo edition Series X. I added it to the cart and went to checkout. Then popped up this captcha. It took a while and it was already out of stock by the time I was done 😭
my weakness is the weird letters
Without these, my slow AF website get spammed with comments and user registrations, so they still have some effect.
I need an AI to complete Roblox CAPTCHAs' for my son. Those ones drive me insane and at times they're actually quite difficult.
Google was not the one to come up with the OCR idea, it was the recaptcha company's main point in the first place.
It's been a while since I've heard the name 1337speak, now I feel old
I Noticed capatchas have a new version , the picture itself its like an AI generated picture, then asks you to pick the same picture
Ah, I haven’t seen that one yet
I had Chat GPG code a CZcams Clone but instead there is a "I'm not a human" captcha to log in.
it's not a matter of "are you bad at CAPTCHAs?" it's a matter of "are CAPTCHAs f***ing stupid?" because multiple times i have done them 100% correct and it's like "nah fam. maybe next year"
It's used to train self driving cars and AI
these image search captcha's are used to help train googles various AI projects
No mention of Louis von Ahn? I’m shocked.
Developers (including me) use Cloudflare's CAPTCHA, Turnstile, I don't get why other developer switch to this too. (it only takes one click, sometimes even 0! fun note it doesn't send any information to any other providers!)
Here's my theory: Google uses these images of road pictures to train their AI cars of the future to recognize stuff on the road more effectively. Getting a good training set is really hard (rubbish in - rubbish out). Captchas create really good datasets. You have pictures that a) contain a certain object (bike, motorcycle, traffic light, etc.) and b) picture segments where you have to specify where the object is located. Object detection and object recognition are two essential tasks you have to solve in order to have a good AI car.
Do you know what's more difficult than these capchas? Trying to get past a foreign language capchas (eg Japanese) within a 30sec time limt.
😂in a foreign language with different characters, impossible for me
I actually run a site which pays users for views & I use "invisible" captchas as one of my anti-spam measures. I have been able to stop 100% of botting/abuse!
I can say that very confidently because I know that if my anti-spam measures are equally strict for everyone it wont effect the ratio of views to earnings. So I have a hidden metric called "true views" for calculating revenue. So if only 10% of human views make it through my system but its the same proportion for everyone, the revenue split will be roughly the same.
So I made my anti-bot detection so insanely extreme! I say I have been able to stop 100% of botting because if someone manages to successfully bot my website it will be earning my money as my anti-spam measures are far stricter than the company I have ads through.
The other day i tried to create an ms account for my dad, and oh god the random captchas there xd. It was a puzzle where you had to pick an image from a group where two emojis were connected with dots from a reference image. It took me like forever to do because you had to do it 10 times, and it usually failed after the 10th having to start again. It was so frustrating that i cannot believe there are any new microsoft accounts that are human xd
the intro had me rolling
You missed one of the most important reasons. Captchas prevent most botting attempts as most people aren’t sophisticated enough to integrate AI or a captcha solver. This is also why "what’s 2+3"-captchas still exist. Yes, they’re trivial, but they’re one more thing that’s annoying for some amateur to figure out.
double clicking the captcha check box always give me the check, skipping the selecting images part
I can't believe we had to have a history lesson about 13375p34k of all things.
I'm getting old.
They do not consider users that give up and find alternatives without that garbage.
Captcha must be gone, we must end this
Question: If the captchas are for machine learning then who or what makes the answers? Or do they just reject the first 100 of the same and then make that the correct answer?
If this were true we could all band together and say everyone always choose the 1st box 4th box and last box and f up their system
I freaking suck at text captcha. They make some of them nearly impossible to read these days. Like I've seen where only 10% of a given letter was even visible. It's a guessing game lol
Research level: god mode!
it's worse. recently I wanted to access the customer part of my mobile phone provider. and they have recaptcha as a protection. for some reason, recaptcha had a hickup and did not load. great, I wasn't allowed to login because some other server wasn't accessible.
Just wait unil it reads ”please verify youre a robot”
😂