THE TANK ROLE IS SAVED!! Overwatch 2 Directors Take
Vložit
- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
- Everything is streamed live @ / flats before being uploaded to CZcams.
► Main Channel: / @flats_ow
► Clips Channel: / @flatsclips
► More Flats: / @more_flats
►Edited by and thumbnail done by: Randomvstheworld
►Follow Me
►Discord: / discord
►Twitch: / flats
►Twitter: / flats_ow
►TikTok: / flats_ow
►Facebook: / flatsttv
#Flats #overwatch2 #overwatch - Hry
"We're so back" said before every balancing disaster.
Didn’t flats say that for the mauga release?
@@donovan4222 Flats has said this before every patch.
It’s just the same thing. Again. And again. And again.
@@mr.shreddergaming1940 poor guy keeps getting his hopes up
this fatazz needs to say we are so back every 5 minutes or blizzard will get angry with him
"Tank role is saved!"
2 weeks after patch:
"Overwatch 2's tanks still aren't fun"
I doubt it these are pretty dramatic changes.
@@deoxxys I think tanks will probably get a trim in the most egregious cases.
@@deoxxysdrastic doesn’t mean good, these changes essentially just keeps the tanks from immediately exploding, it doesn’t address the fundamental issues of counter swapping, regardless of whether or not a tank explodes the counter still hard counter, zarya will always be better than dva now zarya is bulkier and may even be able to get another bubble off mid fight, rein can still get walked by mauga, ball still gets countered by sombra. I like they are focusing on helping tanks but it doesn’t fix the fundamental issues
I don’t know if it’s gonna be perfectly balanced but I think this could be a good start. The only way they could go back to 6v6 is if they had an AI control one tank on each team and it would either pick an off tank or a main tank based on what the real tank player picks. That way there’d be no double shield and no games where you lose because both your tanks picked off tanks.
@@deoxxys the tank problems are caused by the format. making tanks super op doesn't fix the counter pick problem.
remember. you can recieve the 45hp per second with rein by deploying your shield for long enough.
Yeah except your shield will then get bursted down and if ur shield goes down you’re out of luck
and that will just help contribute to the heals you're hopefully already getting. very good stuff
aint no way the shield stays up for that long
@@Caliber918 use corners
@@anya-qr4qb I know you can survive without your shield but if you’re standing behind a corner then you’re not tanking for your team obviously, best just not to let your shield go down unless absolutely necessary
With how big D.va's head hit box is that might as well read "D.va takes 25% less damage"
Well to be fair the trade-off is her gun doing way less damage against armor
@@deoxxysdva is best against smaller, flying heroes anyway so idk if it’ll matter too much idk
but she is good for hitting headshots and finishing other tanks ig
@@drmidge Dva was really good into tanks like winston but this will make the matchup kinda equal.
@@drmidge well, armor isn't there when you're finishing off other tanks, so only the HS nerf will matter at that point for DVa!
*1 month later* “tank still feels awful to play”
We all know what the solution is but everyone refuses to accept it especially those who play DPS
@firstflame593 many DPS players agree with 6v6.
1 month later tank still feels horrible and now support and dps also feel horrible
This time will be different (surely)
You could say that for the game right now and literally any other point in the game’s existence though. In fact you could say that for just about any role-based pvp fps
Oh PLEASE let this not be clickbait
It was
So was ot
not clickbait.
It was not, sincerely a jq main :D
Give it a week or month after the changes yall will still complain lol enjoy the stockholm syndrome
On behalf of every tank main out there: SUFFER AS I HAVE!!
You say this but remember your team also has to fight a giga buffed raid boss tank now
@@donovan4222not my PROBLEM!!!!!!
WE'RE SO BACK
Reaper needs a new role atp cause all these buffs are making him more and more irrelevant
@@kiba6872 neat pfp
9:10 that's so true, this should prevent tank deaths that leave you staring at your screen like "WTF just happened?!?"
So the solution to ow2 is making tanks immortal and their positioning no longer matters? This just devalues all other roles and tank will still not be fun bc theres no skill in never being able to die
@@R4G3_QuitI think it’s less you can’t die and more like you won’t walk into a fight and die in like 3 seconds. You’re complaint is overreacting my guy
@R4G3_Quit Hyperbole much? The Armour change alone simply alters what Heroes will be more & less effective against some Tanks, not to mention all other Armoured Heroes.
Hitting HS's with Tracer and the like will be key to doing any meaningful damage against Armoured foes.
Just means her ilk will need to pick their targets, focus on the Unarmoured ones first.
Leave Burning down Armoured foes to heroes like Widow or Phara, direct hit Rockets will be doing more damage with this change after all.
Think about it, high damage attacks will be doing more damage overall, even with the -25% HS damage and -5 damage from armour, a Widow, Cass or Ashe HS will still be doing more total damage than before.
It just means all Armoured Heroes can shrug off less potent attacks like Tracers Pulse Pistols but need to be wary of Phara Rockets, Widow shots and the like.
-50% KB is nice, but it's only KB. Tanks will still be just as vulnerable to other CC effects as everyone else.
It's not the end of the world mate. Even Tracers Pulse Bomb will do more damage overall, especially if you land the stick on the large tank target.
Some Tanks, like non-armoured ones, will feel more suited to the role with the -25% HS reduction.
Ultimately making those non-armoured tanks more viable in the role as a result. Which will give the role more variety overall.
These are good, well balanced changes that aren't overpowred. Each of them addressed an issue and has great option's for counterplay to off set any advantage vs another specific attack type.
Railgun shots will do more damage to both the head and body of any armoured target too.
Stop being so pessimistic and cosider the wider array of options available for taking down armoured targets with these changes.
Counter swap will be more detaioled than just countering the enemy tank.
That's a great change in of itself alone
TL;DW
Tank will have:
-Knockback reduction up from 30 to 50%
-Headshot DMG reduction 25%
-Armor DMG reduction 5 DMG per projectile up to 50%
For all:
-Passive heal: from 20 HP/s to (10+5% of max HP)/ s
Also:
-Small buff for junk, echo, hanzo
-JQ buff commanding shout, can now activate with Carnage or Rampage
-Ball buff impact from swing 50->60, piledriver movement lockout 0.5->0.75s, minefield DMG up from 130 to 165 and knockback from 5 to 10 meters
All will be here on May 14
See ya and let's make a great game!
Much appreciated
And the worst heroes Mercy and Reaper get nothing 🤦♀️😡
@@itzpurple_queen9711 reaper worst hero? where you getting that from lad?
@@TheRealGeorgeCostanzaNot sure about worst but he’s easily bottom 5 so it’s not really that hot of a take
@@KyleKylesonOfTheKyleClan There is a top500 reaper solo right now
This will not change counterswapping at all. more powerful tanks means that counterswapping is even more impactful now
In a character-based game with the ability to swap, you're going to see counter swapping. Period.
You cannot remove something like that from the game unless you remove the ability to change characters mid-match.
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 sure, you can, but it's not as fun as just playing what you want and working with your team to make things work. Yes there will always be people who counterpick every game regardless but most people main a few characters only (because of lore or gameplay reasons) and get really good at them.
A huge portion of the playerbase are drawn to the compelling character and world this game has, otherwise they would just be playing another shooter. So I think focusing on counterpicking and making it more impactful is going to alienate a huge chunk of their playerbase.
@@bazzfromthebackground3696ok but in 6v6 if u had a ball 1 trick and the enemy went sombra and hog, u could go zaria and bubble ur ball. and even if ur ball dies u still have 1 tank to hold front line, and since tanks weren't raid bosses back in ow1 if the enemy tank messed up he would get punished and die so even if u were down a tank u could come back. its called this wonderful thing called gamebalance, u should look into it sometime
I’m not so sure. If tanks are exploding less it’ll be easier to play around counter swaps. I’m mainly thinking about rein and jq. Like my biggest problem on rein has never been orisa it’s the absurd dmg of other heroes poking me down. Less dmg means I can play the game meaning I can have more freedom to work around a counter.
Anything that makes one-tricks cope and seethe makes me a happy lad
"We're so back"
*Two weeks later*
"It's so over"
Halfway there
Literally every patch lol
@@stinkypitz0005nah tank is actually broken now
The armor changes:
But what is the most annoying thing to tanks? Minigun and shotgun heroes, so bastion, mauga, reaper and so on. They specifically nerfed those heroes with those changes
Right. The characters whose primary role was uhh... (checks notes) tank busting. The tank busters got nerfed against tanks. So they have less of an impact doing the thing that sets them apart from other characters...
Lol yeah this game has no idea what it wants to be anymore. At this point they're just making changes to pander to streamers/youtubers in the desperate hopes that the free advertisement keeps them afloat.
@@aeonamadiperhaps they get buffed later after they assess the impact of these changes? A couple damage heroes being useless for awhile is a price I’m willing to pay for tank to not be miserable.
@@aeonamadi You can be a tank buster without deleting the tank. It's gotten to a point where a lot of tank players have to stop playing in the fight because the moment they do they cease to exist the moment their defensive abilities go away. It's good to change the game enough to keep how it feels fresh, nobody wants the same meta for seasons upon seasons. Maybe you enjoyed seeing Orisa/Mauga every game, but not everyone did.
The game isn't even suffering that badly, and more than content creators were feeling the miserable life of being a tank player.
@@aeonamadino there making changes because tank has sucked and felt bad to play since season 2 I wouldn’t doubt if the entire tank player base has decreased
@@aeonamadi Reaper's main thing was never tank busting unless you're talking about early OW1, bastion is a cheesy character and can delete any squishy, a tank should be allowed to give their team a chance to fight back rather than player "peekaboo" simulator vs the bastion in turret form, Mauga's overhealth should be the same I think but the damage should be much lower until the armour is gone which isnt an issue vs most enemies except for orisa and Dva, to compensate allow mauga to ignite shields since tanks with shields tend to have armour or a secondary self sustain.
Lastly i gotta agree with the fact that tracer is specifically known for 1v1ing tanks and is 100% used as a tank buster fr fr.
Also im happy sombra can go die in a pit since her smg will be much weaker vs tanks despite the virus still doing good dmg.
I simply cannot wait for Flats to heel turn on these changes 1 week from them beeing live
might be 2 weeks he needs to get paid by blizzard first
No chance. These are good changes.
@@shanecar84😂😂😂😂 bro people cried season one about how strong tanks were I vividly remember this so I don’t see how this is good
Flats and others legit get excited over receiving sprinkles for their birthday. This patch is just sprinkles, it changes nothing about what makes Tank feel awful.
@@okami7847 this, idk how anyone could see these patch notes and think it was a good thing.
All I heard was in order to make tanks not feel like shit we will now make every other role equally as shit 🤣
????? Explain? U talking about the regen changes?
@@quiteslayer4067 they said in their notes that they kept hearing that tanks explode to quickly or last too long, so their response is to reduce damage taken and increase regen? Those aren’t the issue it’s all the cc and support abilities that are the issues, in masters and above tanks are just going to live longer and dps is going to rely more on hitscan then ever before l.
@@ismaelvillalobos4949 well yea, ofc that’s what’s gonna happen, anytime u strengthen one role another isn’t going to be as effective. That’s how balancing works. Just cause tank is the one being buffed doesn’t change that fact of buffing a role. Besides, a tank is supposed to hard to kill, that’s like the whole thing.
@@quiteslayer4067 that’s the thing though only a handful of tanks are gonna benefit from this that’s if they benefit from it at all, abilities as awhile across the board are to strong
@@ismaelvillalobos4949 more then a handful will benefit. Some more then others sure, but almost all benefit in some way.
I'm sorry but I have to see this practice in action. This "we're so back" is getting more depressing as they continue to change things. Hopefully they can get on the right path.
We don’t need tank buffs we need a 2nd tank
@@donovan4222 truth
devs will rework literally the entire game 10 times rather than going back to the superior 6v6
@Real_MisterSir dude, it's a different game, 6v6 is ow1.
@Marshall-Bit it's the same game with updates OW2 was a cashgrab format change fake sequel
The duality of this video and samito is hilarious
And I don’t even know where I place myself 😮
because all Samito does is bitch and complain 24/7. I like the guy but damn every single video of his nowadays is him just shitting and crying over 5v5. I like 6v6 better too but damn bro we get it, you want it back.
6v6 is definitely better no doubt
I wish we could just test it out.
The amount of theoretical opinions is getting ridiculous.
We need a feel for this. 🐝
@@tombra3059I played ow1 and although tank wasn’t my fav role at the time (ex dps doom main), 6v6 felt infinitely better. the role generally has less 1 tricks so that isn’t an issue as much as the other 2 roles. and ppl complaining about tank synergies “being too strong”were just shit at the game . tank synergies made the game feel so rewarding if anything. also the ppl who complained about double shield, it was not the two shields that made it unbearable, it was bap brig and sig orisa sustain abilities that were the problem, not the shields. dev team just has no idea how to balance the right things (as we are seeing with 5v5)
Yes! lets make an arbatrary change instead of tackling the fundamental problems with the role!
the problem with the role is that its missing a player. thats like if 5v5 was 2 tanks, 2 dps, and 1 support. the support role would feel like dookie to play
@@iSuckAtGamesGG yes and no, the fundamental problems would be their kits, 80% of the tanks original kits were designed around 2 tanks and how they’ve adapted those kits to a single tank is the problem
@@Burkius the reason tank feels bad to play is because they can counter u, and because all the cd's go into u. back in ow1 if u had a ball 1 trick u could go zaria and prevent all his counters if u both played smart. and even if one of ur tanks is feeding u still had a tank to hold the front line that 2 support could... well support. now if ur tank is feeding its a gg go next. that and also 2 tanks were able to hold angles better than one so one shots were way less of a problem which is why in 5v5 they had to get rid of all the one shots (besides widow's op one shot)
@@Burkius actually only 50% (6/12) of the tanks were made with 2 tanks in mind, as JQ, Mauga and Ram are new in OW2 and Doom, Orisa and Roadhog got reworks in/during OW2. Also every tank has gotten balance changes over time to make them better fit the 5v5 gameplay
@@HietakissaThe reworks and the nummercal changes help, but don't address the fundamental limits of the characters. Older tanks just do less and offer less to the team.
Tank role is saved to make all the other roles unplayable.
We're just going to keep hitting a cycle on which role feels the most unplayable
5v5 be like. Tanks need to be oppressive to feel good to play.
Tanks will not be fun to play, yeah other roles will suck more but consider this.
Tanks are more powerful so:
-counter the tank is even more important
-tank have more responsibility and is not allowed to fail
-every role has a lower skill ceiling (hitting hs brings less value)
-tanks have a lower skill floor
-cd on tanks are still a problem
@@KiraMahManthat is a massive cope, making role braindead op doesn't make it fun, orisa was immortal, who liked her? Cringe deranged cheesers.
This makes it even worse, now every tank can just press shift to go in, press another ability to be immortal, kill everything apart from tank and repeat, nobody except losers will like that.
No strategy, why catch someone out of position or make space for DPS to do actual skillcheck, just hold W and win by holding left click with your eyes closed.
@@edgars911 I mean if rein or winston ever were to be oppressive I'd love it.
@@edgars911you're making this sound easier than it is.
imagine trying to play reaper as a tankbuster after this one lmao, rest in peace reaper
tbf tho he is the next dps hero to get a rework so his time will come
@@robertsummers3360 i really hope so aha
You know he was known as a "tank buster" in OW1, he will still shred most tanks that don't have big armour pools
Rest in agony reaper
holy shit I can actually look at a widow now and not instantly go to the respawn screen!
I would advise still not looking at window
I did feel like widow shouldn't have been THAT GOOD vs tanks
A widow who can hit headshots consistently can just eat through a tanks health
@@sebastianrodriguez8992 Id dive in as doom and most of my HP would just evaporate cause they had a widow and then id just die
@@sebastianrodriguez8992 lawd forgive a tank gets punished for just standing in the open
@@Burkius someone entire field of vision shouldn't be considered out in the open when her just being able to see me means 300 health just gets deleted
A good widow just sits wherever TF she wants and can cram headshots like there's no tomorrow and lord forbid she gets a pocket so even more of my health disappears
Hammond being meta NOT because of every other tank sucking ass is the best early Christmas present of all time
Just you wait till he gets nerfed next patch because us ball players who are used to playing a bad tank gets more wins.
@@Zoosmell413 The grapple buff makes sense, the piledriver buff doesn't, and the ultimate buff is completely unnecessary.
We are so NOT back, we are so far gone now
To be honest this isn't really fundamentally solving my issues with tanks were kinda just turning them all into big stat sticks with the headshot resistance.
This isn't solving counterswapping
It's arguably making the "big stat characters" worse
This isn't solving tanks feeling like a resource conservation simulator.
Tanks don't need to be more powerful they need to be more dynamic to play.
Yeah this was my first thought too. But what's worse is that while tanks will probably feel the same 'cause the core issues weren't solved, these changes also make life MORE annoying for the other roles.
Yes and no - It makes the non-number tanks more viable (Rein, Queen, Ball, etc.) without destroying the numbers tanks. It helps counter some counter swapping from OTHER roles like how Reaper and Bastion are every tank's nightmares, while also helping some One Tank Beats All like through Mauga (since armor halves his damage now). Mauga is a big stat guy who now has counterplay in the form of armored heroes, Orisa also does worse against armor now (but is still easily dealt damage through high damage shots). The only stats Tank you can say isn't made worse is Hog, except he's STILL a shotgun hero meaning significantly less damage against armored targets. They literally took out the stat heroes from being the only viable options which was MORE needed than solving counter swapping.
A tank should have the effectiveness of two players. There's one tank, two dps, and two supports. The ENTIRE role is on one person, meaning they have double the expectations and should have double the effectiveness (whether to win or lose) as any other individual player. Currently, tanks are just toddlers walking around trying not to fall over by tripping on a leaf.
We have dynamic tanks, they just can't play in the meta because of the gatekeeper stat tanks (which all get nerfed from this) and the speed at which they die either due to damage numbers or other factors. Rein, Queen, Winton, those are all dynamic but can be extremely hard to play, most specifically Rein and Queen. Tanks should TANK, not explode. They SHOULD have damage resistance and should NOT lose every 1v1 simply because they're against a shotgun hero or because someone pressed shift
We don’t need tank buffs we need a 2nd tank so that tanks can actually be fairly designed
there is no stop to counterswapping. unless they go back to two tanks it will still be rock paper scissors except for the doom otps lmao
It doesn't solve specific issues, but it does help. Btw, tanks do need to be more powerful. The last time tanks were meta was season 2. What's the point of taking every bullet and CC in my face if I can't carry the game? If that's the case, just go back to 6v6
- Nerfs Orisa's Fortify
- Gives Fortify to every tank
Balanced
thats unironically what they did
And?
@@inherentlyflawedand it is insanity.
They clearly don't play their game.
I can't count how many times I literally hold left click on tanks head with probably like 30+ crit acc and that shit still doesn't die.. wtf do you even do now?
You'd say, don't shoot tank, but there are far too many situations when you have to shoot tank.
@@edgars911 it's a tank. they're supposed to be, well, tanky. That's the whole point.
@@inherentlyflawed What I meant is it's quite silly for Orisa since her point is to be unkillable. They had an opportunity for a good powershift but nah ..
I don't think this will save the tank role, maybe I've watched too much Samito recently but I feel like this won't make tank fun to play just less depressing
The only thing that will make Samito happy is 6v6, he is convinced it is a magic pill that will “save the game” and nothing else will satisfy him.
@@Falconwing66 because 6v6 was peak overwatch. Nobody asked for 5v5, and they are doing all this nonsense to make the game work.
Tbh Samito will be a doomer over literally any change, His bias is just towards negativity
@@Gekk0eand all the other streamers are biased towards sucking off blizzard so they can go to all the events instead of talking about the problems with the game.
@@Falconwing66Maybe because he’s right
I would really like to see Hog have his ultimate tweaked. It was already bad at 30%, but with 50% knockback resistance roadhog effectively gets a delete the tank button.
They did take that into account with the armor change
It’s really bad because it honestly takes 0 skill and thought to hook a tank and press Q in their general direction, but this is a hugely impactful play. It gives hog players massive dopamine hits for plays they didn’t earn and that’s ALWAYS been hogs problem. Now it’s even worse. Terrible
Wrecking ball mines are going to be insane now. Extra movement lockout on the knockup means it will be harder to escape from the mine + piledriver combo, AND THEY BUFFED MINE DAMAGE??? ball will be insane.
i lo e ball
Also with good ball players who can double boop that extra boop damage is insane
@@flynnton1 i lo e him somuch
It’s a huge buff but doom slam can still one shot the entire minefield so use it carefully ballers
@@donovan4222didnt they increase mines health to fix that
Tanks are getting buffed on my birthday, I've never been happier!
Happy early birthday :)
I'll come back and wish you happy birthday 😂
Enjoy youre birthday
🖤
Happy early birthday
Note on hog. Less knockback during ult, but also much less damage. His ult is pellets, not the larger projectiles. Sooo. At most, itll even out i think
His main gun is pellets to do hog over all is getting a damage nerf
its only vs armor that that matters but im betting it'll still come out to be a buff because the target flying away less means A L O T more dmg AND it'lll make going for a hook mid ult easier which is a death sentence to basically every tank in the game
It's a buff, you want to know why? You ever seen a fortified Orisa get altered by hog? 😂 She gets creamed.
@@daXstoRM5 i got fucking deleted as mauga when Hooked+whole hoged, i was so damn fucking confused
@@angelstouge2195 yea uh as a hog main that hit high masters b4 his rework and still now, there is very little you can do to survive as a tank when i pop ult. hope your ana sleeps me, maybe attempt to survive as diva with matrix and flying away. but with the horse now dead im betting hogs finna eat the rest of the season
They just keep doing a full circle ⭕️
a one legged duck swimming
So the armor change is both good and bad. Against low damage per hot characters you will get more value out of it, but against higher damage per hit characters you will be taking more damage per hit. Widow will be doing more damage per headshot against tanks now, even with the headshot reduction due to the armor change. (Only 10 more damage but still) and if a character does 85 damage (arbitrary number) then not counting a headshot, but they will do more damage against armor targets than before. Against the damage that bastion does, the new damage difference is you take 1.4 less per shot or around 1.2 for tracer.
Anti-Nade is still gonna be the "Press E in their general direction to delete the tank" button
kiriko suzu: hello
Ana isn't that good rn because you don't need anti when you have -20% healing
@@abyssalnothingness unless you are fighting a mauga, hog, or the enemy team has good healers, -20% and -100% difference is much bigger than you are giving credit for
No it won’t
@@Enjinercraft yeah a 500% difference in healing reduction very small difference
We used to have only 1 real boop in the game, now the whole enemy team can boop you.
Yeah JR mines the OG. 😂
I like how the title sounds
Thank you lord flats for supporting us ball players in our time in the sun
Chazm and Yeatle boutta go crazy
Honestly idk if this fixes ball. You might still feel like you're not doing a whole lot without good coordination.
@@bazzfromthebackground3696or that your team blows up as soon as you dive their healers
Honestly I had some matches where i was absolutely sweating with ball doing my absolute best and then there was this reinhardt with more kills and 5k more dmg than me sitting back with his teams swinging his hammer every now and then. Everytime id dive my team would get obliterated into oblivion
I still wish they would just have the knockback passive apply to all cc
oh boy these editors are FAST
Let’s see how long this lasts
I have seen Ram disapear when a Hanzo storm arrows their little head while in Staff mode
Ball's interactions with these changes are going to be very interesting. You have the direct buffs like the piledriver and minefield changes but the armour and headshot changes are both a blessing and a curse. It improves his matchup against Sombra since she'll be doing significantly less damage even after a hack but he'll struggle to do much damage against heroes with armour like Brig and Torb. The knockback changes benefit him slightly but they also make him a lot worse against other tanks since he can barely displace them now and when combined with the armour buffs he'll likely lose to every other tank in a 1 v 1 even harder now.
He should displace tanks more than before now. It used to be 5m*0.7, now it’s 10m*0.5
Armor change is huge.Now pulse bomb can one shot armored heroes as well as other big damage ults.
And it is sooo hard to hit a pulse on a tank. I'm cooked
Remember guys! All this to make 5v5 work!
still doesn't, they're gonna revert it again after the season ends
people are gaslighting themselves to think 6v6 was bad when the problem was that the devs didn't know how to balance characters. saying 6v6 was the problem is like watching ur tires blow out and then blaming the engine.
the reason why goats existed was because of aoe healers. think about why ana wasn't used in goats? because she 1 had to hit her shots, and 2 she was a single target healer. and even if she was used in goats it was because of her nade... an aoe healing ability. think of why double shield worked? it was because sigma can both do damage while having a shield out, rein was never used in double sheild, but sig and horse was, reason? they were unbalanced characters, it wasn't only because they just had a sheild. imma be honest, ana was one of and the last innovative support hero, i think its literally impossible to make another hero that isn't similar to ana, zen, or lucio that isn't just broken, aoe healing/auto lock on healing is literally the catalyst for the downfall of overwatch. hell, 5v5 would even improve if they just get rid of auto lock on/aoe healing, the only person that should have that is zen because he heals a pitiful amount
oh yeah lucio too
The game cannot support 6v6. You need half as many tanks as other roles and it’s *still* the role in need 100% of the time. Flex queue is just a second tank queue. People are deluding themselves that 6v6 will work. Queue times have an exponential effect on player retention. They did not switch to 5v5 on a whim.
@@JD-hc5rv if the role was more fun to play more people would play it, and 6v6 would make tank more fun. its as simple as that
@@iSuckAtGamesGG no it’s not that simple. OW1 queue times were atrocious. I’m sure the developers knew exactly how hard it was going to be to cut the tank players in half but still have the role accomplish the same objective. They didn’t make that choice on a whim, didn’t think 5v5 would be slightly more fun so it was worth making a huge core gameplay change and trying to make a completely new formula work. 6v6 cultists are completely gaslit into believing it’s a solution for anything and it’s absolutely not.
I don’t quite get how this will solve the CC issue, tho?
I suspect the echo buff will be either beam damage (cause omg it just doesn't kill so often now) or an ammo increase to the left click or reload speed (because it's a very minor buff that can help with poke phase, which she has to do a lot now).
more sustain creep and another passive will fix it 👍
but guys 5v5 is better for queue times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111
@@elizabethdespair 5v5 is just nicer overall.
I'm convinced at this point that 90%+ of the "muh 6v6 was better" and "OW1 was better" people are people who were not playing "OW1" toward the end and have significant nostalgia bias, just remembering the first years when the game was most novel to them.
Just like the people who say "loot boxes were good bring them back" are people that never once paid for the loot boxes, and what they really miss was getting mountains of cosmetics for free and expecting the game to fund content development for life off their one-time purchase of the game.
@@theSato czcams.com/video/I0WTdBMJIhk/video.html
@@theSato 6v6 was way more complex and team oriented. If they had just focused on ow1, and not ow 0.5, it would've been fine. If they needed funding, they should've just been honest about it.
@@theSato Yes, that was what buying the game meant. You get to play the game and earn things for free after playing the initial fee. But they deleted it. Stinky Scammers. Also the best games in OW1 was post role queue (2018-2020) not first year release. That was when queue times were fast for all roles.
So basically, the answer to tank balance is to homogenize every tank into an Orisa fortify…
Pretty much, gone are the days of unique tanks
As a Ball and Junk main, i can't believe the words i have just heard this man read
"The problem is unkillable or die too quick"
Proceeds to make them more unkillable
11:55 "Dva is the only one not getting a buff out of this"
Dva's head hitbox is crazy big, the headshot resistance is absolutely a Dva buff.
I wonder if it also applies to baby Dva out of mech?
I would assume so since the current boop resistance applies to baby Dva. She's still a Tank/Dva. :3
@@kaorimiyazono9226I completely forget that Baby DVa is THICC af
Finally some love for ball let's eat brothers
Our balls are tingling
does 25% less headshot damage mean the headshot multiplier is reduced by 25% or that it's actually 25% less? because that's a pretty big difference
100 damage + (100 headshot damage - 25%) = 175 damage
or
(100 damage + 100 headshot damage) - 25% = 150 damage
Surely the way they worded it, it means a flat 25% damage reduction.
As a ball/queen tank main I see this as an absolute win
i can already hear samito mentioninng how this isnt it and instead of these buffs they shouldve just kept 6v6
LOL that was literally my first thought as well. Waiting for his video
True, but he's right about this not fixing it. Its actually going to make all the complaints that have been going on about tanks even worse. They needed to nerf tanks, not buff them.
@@puck2694 nerf in tandem with 6v6, sure, but nerfing while staying in 5v5 is awful. Queue times have a direct correlation with balance between the roles. If tank is even worse, good luck queueing DPS or support.
Tanks have to feel strong since there is only one (for the sake of queue times). the 1:2:2 ratio creates a complete imbalance in the power aspect that the 1 will always (practically speaking) be weaker or stronger than the 2:2. This patch looks interesting for tanks, but there are clear losers/winners here (like ram being one of the bigger losers of this patch). I do hope this patch makes tanking feel playable (which it doesn't really seem to me like it will, beyond ball maybe) but I do agree that 6v6 would be ideal.
buffing tanks will make counter-picking even more important now, because they are the raid boss of the team. unironically gives the tank player even more pressure(from getting counterpicked and being way more impactful) and less enjoyment for the other roles
Samito will be right though. 1 week 1 month whatever it won't fix it people will realise. They will have another shit patch tanks will say we are so back and likely aren't. Is 6v6 a magic fix all pill? No, but it's an actual start towards fixing then 5v5 is.
I got a cool idea
What if there were two tanks on a team
And tanks were less bulky so they could specialize around their kits better instead of all having to try to maintain aggro all the time even if their kit is bad at it
no thats to complicated. we'd rather change role passives every couple of seasons to make it look like we are doing something when were not
I’m so hyped all my mains are gonna be eating good. Rein, winston, queen gonna be feasting this next patch
I don’t think these changes will fix the issue of the core gameplay loop simply not being fun due to the added pressure of being the solo tank, countering will still be powerful. These changes will help in terms of balance and a sense of impact, but I seriously doubt it helps with making the game fun. I hope I’m wrong
6v6?
The Ball changes combined with some of these Tank changes are going to take Supports back to dead by daylight.
yeah until the enemy picks sombra or hog
Ball still hits for almost no damage and y'all can outheal his DPS easily so...no.
@@iSuckAtGamesGG that assumes rather boldly that one's teammates will turn around and peel the ball off. Especially if that ball is tenacious and happens tonhave DPS with him.
@@tehsavage in theory, yes. And certainly in coordinated play. However, in Ranked play, a tenacious ball can be a nightmare to play against, especially if you enjoy playing more immobile supports like Ana, Bap, and Zen.
Combine the previous grappling change, increased healing, reduced knockback making Brig irrelevant, reduced headshot damage... yeah that hamster is done snacking on pumpkins and is going to feast on your healing and support utility. Either through elims, or through eating resources for his entire unkillable existence. xD 💀
@@BlazeLycan u dont have to peel, the ana sleeps ball, anti's him, he runs away, sombra chases him and hacks him, he runs away, and hog hooks him he dies. even with just sombra he gets hacked before he even gets to do anything
I've been saying, and commented here a few times, Commanding Shout needed a tweak to enable it to be used during carnage and to go down at least 1 second to not OP her. Now it's down 2, so I expect this to probably be hated upon by others soon. I hope I'm wrong, but I'll take it. Now I could actually shout out of spawn in some areas for movement speed and reach the fight in time for shout to be up around the time I get to the fight. However people need to remember shout doesn't just lose its effect when the extra HP falls off. It lasts for 5 seconds, so you can recover back into the green health. Often I have so much damage mitigation over healing now because proper use of it can keep you alive with your bleeds and heals from teammates.
I'm always happy when my JQ gets some loving. Cannot wait to play her again soon.
This will age like milk in the Arizona sun.
Before, a full charge widow headshot would deal 210 damage to armour hp. Now, with the armour and tank passive changes, it will deal about 220
Assuming I calculated that right anyway
Just did the math myself. You are correct. Seems the armor change is a buff to lower damage per hit characters but a buff to any higher damage per hit characters. Cause even someone who does 85 damage. (Arbitrary number, idk if anyone deals that much damage) with the armor change alone, so they will be hitting harder than before if I did the math right
@@grimalkin6676 Yeah 85 seems to be the threshold
Wait why did they change the armour mechanic then, and why no widow hp nerf to 175 where it should be.
@@ShockComboWidow would be unplayable with 175 health.
Notice how they reference rein so much as examples? Goes to show how bad he was and they knew it
Yeah I have 2k hours on rein and haven’t touched him in so long - excited to have him at least mid card now to play him again
I'm surprised that Flats didn't mention Doomfist. His shotgun would be nerfed with this, and his punch wouldn't push tanks into walls as easily. That seems like really important nerfs for Doom, as you could now do something like couterpicking with rein because he has armor. you would just be winning most trades with doom. This is especially important because doom's main damage is his primary. Glad that Flats is pleased with what changes are being made, as he is usually pretty good at making calls about what is happening to overwatch.
the sound of junkrat buffs is nice, he has been in dire need of them since he lost his 1 shot combo
These dudes will bend their spine in half to avoid 6v6 lmaaooo. Just bring back 6v6. Then we can finally play the tanks we want to play and finally have fun like every other role.
Ikr they be making these crazy changes only to negatively impact the other roles at the end of the day 💀 it's an infinite loop. Supports got their invincible era, DPS were oppressive for 2 months now it's going to be the tanks being invincible and rolling on everyone. Rock paper scissors. With 6v6, all roles had more chances to be balanced equally.
@@user-cy6xl3vd3fthis doesn’t make tank invincible
@@henressy9943 The more you buff tanks and mitigate their weaknesses the worse they feel to play against and the cycle continues until you bring in a 2nd tank
@@donovan4222this is very true. ow1 was so balanced in the couple years before ow2 when nobody was playing. i felt like every hero was good
Just get better. I play doom into my counters all the time and do fine.
overwatch devs will try EVERYTHING but 6v6
and 5v5 defenders will gaslight people into thinking that balance changes was a 6v6 problem and not balance problems.
they're the type of mf's to change their tiers when their engine breaks down
Sorry but the only good thing to come out of the mismanaged fires of ow2 was cutting it down to 5v5. One of the only right choices theyve made and then they insisted on making it progressively more miserable to play to where ppl dont see the difference bc both 6v6 and current ow2 feel like ass to play
They might as well just say fck it and do 7v7 lol
@@Madameflareclassic delusional 5v5er
@@Madameflare no it was a terrible decision. When they made Overwatch 1 they tested 5v5 6v6 and 7v7. They chose 6v6 for a REASON
Explanation on the armor changes since the wording is confusing:
Its going back to when armor used to reduce damage by a flat 5 across the board, which makes it stronger against tank buster heroes.
The “maximum of 50%” means a single pellet of damage cant be reduced more than 50% of its value. For example, if a characters bullets does 5 damage, it will only reduce the damage down to 2.5 so that the damage isn’t nullified. Stuff like moiras suck is a constant rate of low tick damage, so this would affect her. Not sure what it does per tick tho, i know its 60 per second but thats her dps not the tick damage of her weapon.
This means armor is LESS effective against stuff like junkrat primary or other high burst of damage. Pharah too, dva bomb, rip tire, etc.
This might seem like a big nerf but i think the reduced headshot damage makes up for it. And tanks already have high health pools, which in itself already makes them strong against burst just by existing. I would rather take a consistent 25% less hs damage than worry about dva bomb or junkrat. And besides that, those burst damage are way easier to tweak.
I have no idea why people think tanks will be raid bosses. HS reduction is nice but previous armor was just better
It's so funny to ne, I was listening to your discussion video on "how to fix tanks" were you were looking at suggestions on your Twitter post, and then this shows up on my feed when I'm leaving. As a Rein one trick I'm very excited for these changes
Blizzard has so thoroughly mangled the original game that I can barely recognize it anymore. Solutions to problems caused by past solutions over and over and over
classic example of "i got a scratch on my arm so i'm gonna cut off my entire leg"
do they even play their game
@@S3nCh4nit’s very obvious they dont
Frogger is crying right now with the knock back change
As a day 1 hog and rein main im swimming in happiness
"Tank role is saved"
"We are so back"
This gonna age well
Just wait for Marvel Rivals at this point
Best patch yet
true, these mfs will die on this 5v5 hill
That game will die in a month lok
tank role saved but overwatch died
U know the funny part is that they kept mentioning rein in this
Genji indirectly got some love here too, he is now much stronger against armor
Now if they also gave us 6 V 6 and I'll be a happy lad.
As much as I want 6v6, these tank changes for sure tell me they're not willing to go 6v6.
@@commandoch12i5 I wouldn't be so sure. IMO 6v6 is clearly on the table, and they are rather exhausting the balancing fiasco that is 5v5 to see if its even plausible to continue with it. I think if this next season flops, 6v6 will be around the corner. Season 9 gave them hope that 5v5 is possible, but with the ultimate ending due to that patch being the lackluster season 10, I wouldn't be surprised if they were still looking at 6v6.
Also, keep in mind queue times were one of the biggest reasons to go to 5v5, and look at this past season's queue times. I'd argue we're in for a ride (more 5v5 patches) with a hopeful destination (return to 6v6).
If they determine 6v6 is more profitable, they will go to it. I think we, not only could, but will see that happening by the end of the year. If not, at least a test game mode by then.
I called tank headshot damage reduction months ago
I remember seeing your comment, good call.
Tank feels terrible for everyone now
Yah, I may be a hardcore Tank main but….this is more terrifying than hopeful
Really don’t want to be the reverse of what we are now.
BRING BACK OCTOBER 2020 6V6
Reaper is absolutely cooked
Reaper was already the worst dps in the game and now bro is gonna be even worse off.
@@tiam9465 Not really, he's just gonna be bad vs half the tanks. He always excelled at area control and assassinations. His ult is doodoo tho
@@Fuphu Area control maybe he's alright. But assassinations idk he is way too loud and slow to be ideal past your metal ranks Gold and Plat. Is it possible to succeed with Reaper in those high ranks? Yeah probably but is it worth the effort over just switching to Tracer or another stronger quieter and faster hero? Probably not worth the effort
@@tiam9465 I was a masters doomfist before I quit comp, I'm talking about qp and just in general. He's good at taking high ground or setting up before things go down and either force enemies out or just kill them in my experience playing him.
If ur in high elo comp then yeah you'd better just stick to snipers or counters or op characters.
He's the next hero being reworked. We've been told several times now.
The changes to tank do look interesting and I'm curious to see how they will play out.
What would also be interesting to explore is dynamic 5v5 - where a maximum of two of each role can exist on a team.
And balance that with two levels of role passives - one when doubled-up in role and a stronger one when solo in role.
That 'could' also mean that role-queues wouldn't necessarily mean that a player is role-locked throughout a fight.
2 DPS, 1 Support and 2 Tanks? This leaves 1 Support slot that a DPS or Tank can theoretically switch to.
And that in turn results in a DPS or Tank slot that is made available.
NOT THE KNOCKBACK RESISTANCE 😭😭😭😭😭😭
THEY NEED IT
Hinder, hacked, sleep, suzu, stunning. The knockback resistance won’t change shit but make doom worse.
As a hog main, yes please!
@@cantbelieve5231 how does it make doom worse if he can't be booped as far?
@@theSatohe also doesn’t boop the tank as far, making it harder to get that wall damage. Plus dooms largely about displacement, less displacement = less value.
This entire game is just one big carousel where every class gets their chance to finally shine at the expense of another. Looks like it's tanks turn. Time to ride on the big boi roller coaster. See ya on Marvel Rivals boiz.
Yep. It was dps then supps now tank
Except tanks were never weak... What they had is one insanely strong tank vs other not so strong tanks.
Now they buff all tanks.. who or how will anyone kill a tank?
Legit just ignore tank and focus any other target all game period.
Just fking patch ago we had immortal horse that literally nobody liked, how on earth do you make every tank like that and think now people will like it??
@@edgars911What does the name Tank tell you? Yes the Orisa is disgusting I agree but other Tanks like Reinhardt, Ball, Junker Queen needed a buff someway or the other. Playing as Ball is miserable as you would get countered by half the characters and then die in 2 microseconds, Reinhardt is a literal meme, and Junker Queen needed some survivability/Utility to her kit. The Horse you described has infinite health but also insane dps whilst others arent even near Orisa lvl of dps.
@@edgars911but that doesn't solve counter-swapping and making it more forced to play this hero instead of playing what you want now dps and support will feel shitty to play for the expanse of the tank role
This game is just a cycle through roles and see if we can fix it
How will armor effect beam heros like sym/zarya?
The pellets also include Hog and Mauga pog
The tank problems are caused by the format. Making tanks super op doesn't fix the counter pick problem.
Flats saying to mamke sure to play Mirrorwatch is hilarious because the mode is so dead. I CANNOT find a game to save my life
Regarding the -5 damage on armour, a lot of tanks have damage reduction abilities that overwrote the damage reduction from armour anyway like Orisa, Mauga and Ram, so now they will take basically no damage with them stacking.
Just started playing ball this season and he gets buffed whooohoooo
Ppl are starting to wake up slowly to the fact that 5v5 is not fixable.
And the cycle for the overwatch communities bipolar disorder continues lmfao we will go from “We are so back” to “it’s so over” in a matter of weeks
Fax. It's been over since day 1 of release lmao.
As a Ball player from Overwatch season 14 to today, seeing those ball changes made me cry of happiness, I was going insane already
RoadHog : We are so back
Still cap. Remember how we said that tanks felt invincible sometimes too? Imagine those Orisa nerfs aren't gonna mean shit now. She is gonna go right back to feeling oppressive when not onyl can she deny headshots for 3.5 seconds but can also take 25% less headshot damage in general. And stilly deny any damage with her javalin spin. So this only makes the other half of the coin even worse. Its gonna make Tank feel crazy strong and make each DPS feel like they can't touch a dps until the healers are gone. Which will also make the supports feeling like they are roleplaying the victim once again in normal play when you are forced to take them out first in the team fight.
What's the point of those changes? It again doesn't make tanks feel better. You still have to constantly counter swap. Bring back 6v6 instead of ruining the game even further...
yeah cuz the game was in a great state and had so many concurrent players at the end of ow1 🤡
@@ethan9937Unfortunately, that’s what happens when the game doesn’t have an update in 2 years. Would you play a game if the game isn’t getting updated or any love at all by the dev team?
Here, take it. You need it.
🫴🤡
@@ethan9937 OW1 had a patch (Oct20) where every role was fun to play, no long queue times at any rank. They fucked it up on purpose to make the worst meta, left it there for 2 years just to make OW2 look good.
They've been actively patching for 9 seasons and haven't solved anything. Because they simply can't without the 2nd tank.
@@Void619 nono, he won't listen
They are not runing the game
So headshots do 25% less damage now, but the armor is only -5 flat damage instead of -30%, like your example of souljourn the fully charged railgun vs armor was 144 damage, under the new system it will either be 150 (if the -5 is before the 25%) or 149 (if its the reverse). Her left click goes from 6 on a body shot to 5 on a body shot tho so its better that way, headshots go from 13 to either 10 or 9 depending on if the -5 is before or after. Headshots from cass are going to do more after this armor change even with the 25%. I wonder how this is going to feel in game. I want rein to be good again lol
well, looks like i have to learn ball now.
The underlying problem is 5v5. No matter how you spin this, the missing tank is the problem. Stop pretending this or any other fixes going to work.