Use ANY powered sub with Sonos Arc, Beam or Playbar + Ikea Symfonisk surrounds
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- čas přidán 19. 01. 2020
- I tested multiple ways to add a powered sub to my Sonos home theater using my Symfonisk hack and found a super cheap and easy way to build a full 5.1 system for under $700 - that’s the same price as the Sonos sub alone!
Recommended subwoofers on Amazon ~$100:
Polk 10" - amzn.to/2RcWV1q
Monoprice 8" - amzn.to/3696umd
Monoprice premium 8" - amzn.to/2Rdl73O
Acoustic Audio 8" - amzn.to/2TVfCZt
Note: any subwoofer brand or size will work as long as it's amplified and has speaker level inputs - if it only has RCA inputs, look elsewhere.
Beam - amzn.to/38nJMbA
Playbar - amzn.to/36buDsk
Ikea Symfonisk - www.ikea.com/us/en/p/symfonis... - Věda a technologie
Hi all. I've had a lot of questions on which subs are compatible and affordable so here are my recommended subwoofers on Amazon ~$100:
Polk 10" - amzn.to/2RcWV1q
Monoprice 8" - amzn.to/3696umd
Monoprice premium 8" - amzn.to/2Rdl73O
Acoustic Audio 8" - amzn.to/2TVfCZt
Any subwoofer will work as long as it's amplified and has speaker level inputs - if it only has RCA inputs, look elsewhere.
Hi Todd. Like the video very good, I’m in the uk and haven’t yet got a Sonos sub. I have a play bar and 2 play one SL’s Would it work if I add the symfonisk and use the active sub as the main subwoofer in the system. As you have in the tutorial. Wiring the speaker outs ? Not sure if that makes sense. Kinda hope it does. Basically can I add the Symfonisk speaker in the same room as a sub ?
Which speaker inputs are you hooking up to if you don't suggest RCA? On the polk for instance I see input but I see it for L and R speakers. Does it not matter?
Spencer Barnes I recommend using a sub that has speaker level inputs since we’re feeding an amplified signal from the symfonisk. If your sub only has RCA inputs you can buy a speaker to RCA converter but the quality may not be quite as good.
Totally Nuts I think the cleanest approach is to get a pair of symfonisks as the rear speakers and hook the sub to those via the speaker inputs. For a cleaner sound, if your sub also has speaker outputs you can wire things so it filters the bass out of the symfonisks
@@todd.parker alright. I'm not that educated on speaker specs and stuff so that makes sense to me. So you just went into the L+ and L- input of your new sub?
This video comparing the two sub setups is exactly what i've been wondering about! This is great, thanks for doing the comparison.
Sure thing, glad this was helpful
Dear Todd, perfect approach and due diligence. Exactly what I was looking for. Many thanks for your thoughts and testing. Thanks!!
Two words: THANK YOU.
I'm 100% doing this, thank you so much
Glad you like the idea. I’m so surprised this worked.
I initially wanted to add the Sonos Sub to have that 5.1 overall sound complexity .... and the added $700 wasn't within my budget at the time...... had I'd had it.... the choice of keeping all things Sonos Original was appealing more so! However, your time and efforts in explaining your how to hacks just save the day! Great presentation and detailed narrative! Thanks Todd
I have an older Bose Amped Sub as an option for this project!
Thanks again...
Glad you liked it. This video covers the wiring is detail: czcams.com/video/9Bvof0hF4LE/video.html
Looking forward to testing this out with my Beam soundbar to get some extra bass! Thanks for the video...
Have fun!
Thank you for the video. I added the binding posts to my Symfonisk and now understand what you meant when you said the space is tight in the box. It must of been challenging to add the two DC switches.
I have tiny hands
Great,Todd! I was one of those who asked you about this late last year. I was hoping to try this myself but you are just too motivated and did it first. I was thinking about the method with two linked rooms though. I wouldn't have dreamed you could just use the sub lnked to the rears and still get enough bass. I will give this method a go-and save buying the extra Symfonisk. Thanks.
I was really surprised too, glad I tested that since the grouped room idea is more of a hassle and more expensive.
The problem with the cheaper method is that you no longer have a wireless system. I would rather have a stand alone sub unit including Symfonisk speaker that I can move around. Maybe Sonos will update the software to fix volume bug.
Thank you! Looking forward to doing this.
Let me know how it goes!
Great video man. Keep up the good work
Thanks, I appreciate it
Well done sir!
I've just jacked one of my Sonos Play:1 following your suggestion, I can confirm that the full range of basses are sent to every surround speaker, I think if there isn't any sub connected to add some basses to the playbar.
The basses are "simmetric", there isn't left or right, don't know how to explain better, the .1 channel is sent to every surround speaker.
I've an old Bose acoustimass sub so I've tried: one economic small amp from amazon (30$), your video and some patience, don't want to destroy the play:1 so I've done all the things to be invisible and... perfect! The cable follows the power supply line and it's virtually invisible.
Incredible!!!
Don't need sonos sub anymore and if I want more basses I'll buy a better sub - Acoustimass has two tiny woofer.
With the dedicated amp I can balance the basses to have the cinema effect that I love!
Fantastic, I virtually offer you a mega beer!!!
Always great to hear this works well. I was surprised that so much low end is sent to the surrounds but, hey, I’ll take it!
Thanks so much Todd!
Thank you Todd Parker. I bought my Sonos Soundbar for very very cheap, 200e and it was like brand new. Next, when my wife is going to ikea, she have to bring me 3 symfonisk 😂
Awesome, enjoy!
Thanks! Great video!
Thanks so much for the follow up video, really indepth and answered questions I had from your other content. The Sub is expensive so wanted some alternatives. I'm new to wiring speakers, it looks like the Yamaha doesn't have those connectors on the back? How would you get around that? Thanks
Good catch David. I re-checked and the Yamaha and more expensive Klipsch are both lacking the speaker level inputs so I edited my comment to remove those recommendations. You can buy a converter but I've heard they sometimes can add some noise.
I use monitor audio platinum with Dolby atmos, but I have a Sonos playbar + sub and surrounds in a spare room, Sonos is a fantastic hi-fi choice for the price.
It is a really slick system
Very cool, thanks
Thanks a lot for this hacking series! Just bought an refurbished Symfonisk from IKEA to give a new purpose to an super old radio (Grundig 4010) 😁
Cool. What’s you plan?
I'm going to design and 3D-print a custom enclosure for the Symfonisk electronics so that I'm able to mount them inside the radio. I thought about making an rather flat case and mounting it to the top of the radio's enclosure so that the buttons and power plug are accessible through the top hole of the backplate since I don't want to damage any original parts of the radio. I will also add an smart light bulb to the inside using a cheap IKEA lamp and TRADFRI bulb so that I can set it up to light up whenever the speaker plays some music to have some light shine trough the station overview in the front :D
I hope the SYMFONISK will be able to power the original speakers, otherwise I may just use the SYMFONISK's own speakers and only use the radio as an nice enclosure for everything 😅
Here's an (german) website with some pictures of the radio if you're interested in how it looks :)
www.radiomuseum.org/r/grundig_4010w.html
CrazyPat3000 wow, that’s an awesome project! The symfonisk amps should be able power the speakers as long as it’s a 2way design since it’s a bi-amped speaker. You should be able to true play it too
Great video buddy I am so tempted to try this I wanted to do the two Sonos with the sub for my bedroom upstairs the man my handy skills suck
It’s really not hard. Just take the screws off the front panel, disconnect the ribbon cable (remove foam sticker, flip hinged cover), and you’re in. The super low tech thing to do is to take a length of speaker wire, strip the wire and wrap the ends around the positive and negative terminals if the woofer and maybe do a blob of hot glue to keep it there. Run that out the port and hook it to the sub. It won’t be pretty but it will work and only takes 5 minutes, no cutting. Only do one speaker, you don’t need to do both. My earlier video did this when testing to see if it’s viable if you need step by step instructions.
thank you Todd great work. I have to say I watched all your video about this. I was always very impress with the quality of works and thought you put into this subject. you works have save a lot of people a lot of money. my question is this. How can applied this with 4 Sonos play one and a Sonos bream.
You can hook a sub up to the play ones in the same way as I showed for symfonisks. It’s just harder to open those speakers and find a spot for the wire terminals
Hello, I apologize If this question has already been answered in a previous video or comment. I have a Yamaha HS8S subwoofer that has XLR and 1/4" inputs, no speaker wire inputs. Is it still possible to connect the them? Could I add 1/4" jacks and wire them to the symfonisk instead?
Great video and very informative. When you are using the ikea speakers as rears are you keeping the existing small woofer connected in parallel to the external sub ?
Yes, the internal drivers are still active, we’re just borrowing some of the woofer’s amp to provide a signal to the external sub
@@todd.parker Sorry to be stupid but just to check before I start....this still works even when you use the Ikea speaker as the surround (with a playbar at the front)?
Paul Crompton Yep, that works great and is what I show in the video. Honestly, I was surprised that so much bass was sent to the rear channels in a home theater setup but we’re all lucky for it!
Great video, thanks. Is there a way to use a symfonisk to replace a connect amp? It would be great if I could use this as an option for running my garden speakers as a new Sonos amp would be overkill. Please consider a video. Thanks again.
You can’t get a full range signal from this setup to feed an amp but you can use the internal amps to power any passive two way speaker. For example, you could disconnect the tweeter and run a wire from that to the tweeter in your outdoor speaker. Same for the woofer. You can buy wires that have 4 conductors to make a tidy cable. You’d just need to disconnect the internal crossovers on your speakers and direct wire them. I made a video showing how to do this step by step if you check in my uploads.
With the announcement that 1st Gen Play 5’s are not going to receive updates after May, could you do a video on using Symfonisk hardware to replace the boards in a 1st Gen Play5?
I think that wouldn't work because afaik, the Play:5's are a 3 way design (tweeter, midbass, woofer) and the Symfonisks are a two way design. My hope is we can find a way to keep these older Sonos units alive - I have a bunch so look for videos in the future as this plays out.
Hi Todd
Thank you so much for your effort!! I definitely want to try it.
One question: is there a way to
Control the volume of the sub in the app, like the original sub?
Thanks!
Sorry, no. Sonos isn’t aware there is a sub in play
can you connect the sub near the soundbar instead of the rear ?
When you have the 'real' sub turned on in the sonos app, it will divert the LFE sound to only the 'real' sub and remove it from the other speakers, without a 'real' sub connected to the system I guess the LFE sound is just getting mixed in with the rest of the sound and so comes through the rears. As long as most of the low frequency information is mixed in mono, then this should work pretty well.
Yep, exactly. When running trueplay with this setup, I tend to turn the external sub down to 40% of my typical level or it will attenuate the lows too much but otherwise it works well. It would be better if the other speakers had the lows filtered out for less distortion but that’s the compromise
Is there any updates since this video was made to the volume issue when connecting 2 rooms together. I already have the Playbase and 2 Play 3's as my rears. So, i'd prefer to keep them but the volume issue does seem like a deal breaker
Where did you get that mantle? Love it!
Awesome man
Thanks. The volume adjustion problem is rather disappointing. And the delay in the other solution. I was thinking about connecting a bass shaker to a Symfonisk
Hi Max. Actually, the simpler approach of just attaching a sub (or bass shaker) from the internal woofer wiring is the way to go and there aren't any of those downsides except some movies max mix things in such a way that some bass may not be sent the rear channels but that was very rare in my testing. Using the other method where you group two rooms is where you run into the the delay and volume control issues.
Many thanks for this amazing video, I was wondering wether you could use the SonoSequencr app to add the sub in the surround sound system in the sonos app
I haven’t used that app so I’m not sure, sorry
David Stenbeck I’ve heard you need to contact the developer for details
Great and informative video. I have a beam w/sonos sub. I'm actually buying 2 surround speakers from IKEA really soon. Quick question for you, Can you link 2 sonos subs? Have you heard or have you tried to link 2 subs together? I want more bass.
You can definitely hook a powered sub to each of the Symfonisks which should sound great. You won't need to "link" them per se since they don't show up in the Sonos controller, we're just feeding the rear channel's woofer signal to a powered sub.
Great video thanks 🙌
One quick question.. if your supplying the woofer from just one speaker won’t it make the woofer mono and only play lower frequency from that channel? Is it best to take it from left and right rears speakers to retain stereo sub frequencies?
Yes, if you only feed it signal from one speaker, if there is low frequency info that is panned to only the opposite channel you’d miss that but I don’t know how often that happens. Ultimately since there is only one sub, it’s mono either way but having both channels means you won’t miss anything. At this price, you can afford to have a sub for each speaker!
@@todd.parker Or just feed both speakers into one sub since you usually have both left and right inputs.
David Stenbeck sure, it just is sometimes a hassle to run another wire across the room
@todd I’ve got a question. I was watching all your sub hack video and saw you said it’s a downfall if you do the group w/ sub thing about volume/syncing. But I already have a Sonos sub linked to a playbase & two play 3s. I’d like to do the room approach so that when I’m listening to music throughout my open concept house I can add bass w/o necessarily grouping the surround set. If this is my main intent (grouping w/ multiple rooms for music) would you still discourage this approach? Thx!
That sill work great. My comment re: delay is that within a home theater room there is less lag than when grouping with another room. They do that because latency is more noticeable with lip sync but doesn’t reach as far. In your car with music there is no extra lag, will sound great
Terrific videos. I added a sub to my ikea/sonos speakers using your prior videos, however I just drilled an opening in the back of the speaker for the cable connections and did not add the terminals. Is this going to be a problem, and should I go back and add the terminals? If so , what's the best way of doing this. Thanks!
As long as it's air-tight, you're good. If there is a small air gap, it will act as a port and you'll hear air noise and chuffing. A blob of hot glue would do the trick.
Will this work with just one Symfonisk speaker? I cannot get it to work with one
I’m in the position of wanted to use my 3rd party sub, well because it sounds better. I spoke with Sonos and they told me I can buy a Sonos amp and hook it up to my sub. I’m getting ready to purchase the amp ( I know it’s expensive) but curious if this will give me the combined (set it and forget volume control) I already have an amp that I am using with my 3 rd party surround and I have a Sonos arc. Just curious how if this is the best approach. I know it’s not the cheapest.
I’m late to the party, but great videos!
I have a soundbar and 1 symfonisk and a wireless vizio sub. Is there anyway to make my current equipment work or would I need to get another symfonisk?
Also would this add bass when when listening to music through spotify?
Thanks! Assuming your soundbar is Sonos, they require a matched pair to add as surrounds so without buying more gear, you could use the gateway approach where you disable the internal drivers on the symfonisk and use it to feed a signal to your wireless sub. You then group this and room with your sound bar room. My main concern is there is a small amount of the delay with that set up anyway and then adding a wireless subwoofer will add additional delay. See this video for details: czcams.com/video/9Bvof0hF4LE/video.html
Hey Todd, thank you so much for the video! I have just bought the Sonos Beam and two IKEA Symfonisk and wanted to do this setup. I already have an Audio Pro Sub. Is it possible to just drill a hole in the back of one of the SYMFONISK speakers and drive the cable from the ports inside the SYMFONISK directly to the sub? I really appreciate the videos as I am totally new to this.
You can fish the wires out of the ports if you don’t want to cut into the cabinets, sure. I did that when I first tried this idea
This is a really great idea. Just one question. How will the driver for the tweeter react if it doesn't have any load? (if you just unplug the leads)
Nothing really happens if there is no load connected so the amp is fine. Just remember that if you unplug the wires to wrap them in electrical tape so there isn’t a short.
Very impressed with this Todd - good job. I'm setting up a new Sonos system from scratch for surround and also multiroom audio, and am going to do exactly what you've shown here. One question though - how well does this work when you play music through this system? i.e.: Spotify or Radio as opposed to TV/Films. Does it come through all speakers and utilise the sub ok? Also does it matter that you're only connecting one channel (one Symfonisk) when playing music? Thanks have subscribed!
Thanks Guy. For music, there is a setting in the room under Surrounds to choose if you want music playback to be ambient (mostly room effects) or full (same as the fronts) and you can set the level of the surrounds different for TV vs. music via two sliders. I had that setting up near the end of the video. It sounds really good with music on full. I usually set it a bit higher than normal for a quadrophonic effect.
Question: 1. do you hook both the right and left IKEA speakers to the sub speaker input? 4 wires going to the speaker input? 2 left / 2 right? 2. Do you have the sub speaker output go back though to the IKEA speaker woofer inputs to make the sub work less hard? (One or both sides?) 3. Leave the tweeters connected right? And it should act like a 5.1 system? Sub on its own as one room, then bind rear IKEAs (right and left) with the front speaker like a BEAM as another room?
Thanks for the reminder to make that “every possible way to wire this” video. To make this work as a surround sound system with the best fidelity, wire it as you said in #1 - leave the tweeters alone and use two sets of binding posts to essentially place the sub in between the Symfonisk bass amp and the woofer via the sub’s speaker in/outs. In my tests, the best setup is to add the pair of Symfonisks as the surround speakers for the Beam so they are treated as one room in Sonos. The sub never shows up in Sonos, we’re just siphoning off the low frequencies from the surrounds to give a signal to the sub. This technically isn’t a “true” 5.1 system because we’re not ever tapping into the .1 (subwoofer) channel of Dolby DTS but you will get lows of rumble for very little money. Hope that makes sense, I’ll make a video soon, to answer all these questions visually...
Todd Parker you’re awesome. thank you for this.
Excellent instruction. I hooked the 2 Symphonisks this weekend and ordered a very slim subwoofer from AMZ to stick under the bed. Just to confirm, I only need to run 1 paired connection input from the ikea device and not both stereo units? Thanks in advance.
Connecting one speaker to the sub will do the trick. Adding the second would just catch any bass that was hard panned to that other channel but most bass is mixed to mono-ish in pop music so I don’t think it’s worth the hassle
@@todd.parker Terrific. I will be configuring this SlimLine Sub that fits directly under the bed. 4.5" high. I'll revert back with any findings. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CYQ4LOO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
This process worked perfectly. FYI, I bought the SlimLine Sub mentioned above, and it sits underneath the Bed nicely, and works great! I can finally feel the bass again! Todd, nice work!
Hey Nowjerry Awesome!
Hi, following Sonos announcment yesterday, I'm thinking of using Symfonisk/s like this to replace my Sonos connects once they become crippled. I would love to be able to swap the guts of my gen 1 play 5 for whats in the symfonisk but I guess that won't be possible.
Unfortunately, I don't think that would work but my hope is we can keep the older 5's going somehow (I have a pair). If they do eventually get bricked, you can get a pair of Symfonisks and a cheap sub for $300 which will sound great.
Wow! That's quite a clever way to fix things! 👏🏻
Is it possible to buy only one Symfonisk to get a 2.1 setup together with my Playbar? Or doesn't the Sonos app let you have only one surround speaker?
Totally understandable if they wouldn't let you do that but can anyone try before I buy? 😉
Yes, if you add the Symfonisk as a stand-alone speaker and group it to the playbar room. I cover this in more detail in my wiring guide video.
Hi Todd, do you happen to have some detailed pictures of how you wired up your toggles and binding posts inside the Symfonisk?
I’m working on a video with wiring diagrams now...
@@todd.parker Any idea on the time frame of when you will have the video up. Ive told some friends and they are excited about it.
dalasher84 it’s taken forever to make all the diagrams but the video is all cut together and I just need to do the voiceover, hope to finish this weekend! It’s pretty epic - covers every possible configuration and question I’ve been asked the last 6 months.
Todd Parker thanks! That’s awesome news. I’m super excited about it.
@@dalasher84 BOOM - czcams.com/video/LpeKHM4qBkk/video.html
Could you do the same thing with a Sonos Play bar and create lines out so you could hook up a KEF Speaker?
Sure. The only thing with the sound bars is they tend to have a lot of drivers and complex acoustic stuff going on to simulate both front and center speakers so it might not work as well as a simple 2 way speaker.
Hi Todd,
I'm wondering if this speaker hack could somehow be applied to the bose system (i've got a Bose Soundtouch 300) maybe it's an idea for a next video?
Yes, this isn’t Sonos exclusive. You can jump off any powered speaker to get a signal to the sub
Could also do the same thing and hook up larger speakers instead of the play3
Sure. This technique works on all Sonos models.
I am looking for a way to make the TRUEPLAY feature work on the new Sonos AMP with my normal speakers that I have connected. Normally it only works with the hardware dongled Sonance speakers.
Any ideas everybody...???
That would be a killer feature, even if they labeled it as “experimental”. From what I’ve seen in testing my bi-amped speaker build front he Symfonisks, TruePlay can make a huge difference with any kind of drivers. I wouldn’t hold out hope though...
Great video. Do you need 2 ikea speakers or just one?
You only need one if you just want to feed a signal to the sub
Great I heard that with the Sonos sequence app you can add the gatewayedsub as a real sub aswell. Did u try?
I haven’t used that app in a while so I’m not sure anymore
Is there any benefit to hooking up both left and right rear speakers to the sub speaker inputs? Or is just hooking up one side to the one side of the input on the sub woofer good enough? I'd rather not drill into both speakers if I don't have to. Thanks a ton for this! I love the Beam, but once I found out how much the Sonos sub was, I considered returning the Beam. But your option, makes adding a sub to the Beam waaaay more affordable.
I honestly think you’re fine just running one channel into the sub. You might miss a few tiny effects if they are hard panned to one side but the extra wires and mess is like not worth it. The beam has very little bass so this will make a big difference
@@todd.parker Wow! Thanks for the quick reply. Would you recommend disconnecting the mid-range woofer and running the speaker level out from the sub( like the Polk Audio one you have linked in your description) back to the disconnected mid-range woofer in the Symfonisk? Or just connecting the sub speaker level input directly to the already hooked up mid-range speaker in the Symfonisk? Also wouldn't connecting like that put an extra ohm load on the amp in the Symfonisk?
JimboJason The ideal setup would do what you described because that would filter out the lows from the symfonisk so it should be a bit cleaner because it’s not working as hard. That said, I’ve been using this the lazy way with only one channel driving the sub and running the Symfonisk and sub together and it sounds great. So it all comes down to how hardcore you want to go.
Todd should I use my old Bose AM-5 sub? The original bose had a sub and two little satellites that had outputs on the sub. Would I just wire it into the sub and forget the sats?
You want a powered sub that has a built in amp.
Do you think with Black Panther, it was just the left or right channel for the sound? That would explain the absence of sound. Also, what about connecting both outputs to the inputs on the sub?
It’s possible yeah. You can attach both channels for sure, would help catch sounds panned to one side
Did you have the speakers grouped together or just separate left, right, bar with the sub attached.
The best setup adds the symfonisks as the surrounds for a beam or playbar. The powered sub is connected to the symfonisks but doesn’t show up on the app. Details in the video
Curious why not run rca bass from receiver out into powered sub or to one of the Sonos Connect Amp that have bass out? I'm sure there is a reason and I love this fix. I've got a Bose Accoustimass sub thinking of connecting with it's bass RCA in from receiver and optical to the Sonos Beam. I am guessing there is a delay issue or something. This hack is fantastic.
With Sonos there is no line out unless you’ve invested $650 in a connect amp. This allows you to add a powered sub to any Sonos, no need for the amp
Is it possible to use the Speakers as a Gateway in the same room, next to an already existing 5.0 system with a Beam and two rear speakers? Or is it being blocked because it causes asymmetry within the surround system?
You can do that since Sonos will let you group multiple rooms. Should work fine.
Great vid! Connecting the Sub to the IKEA speaker do I only get the sub tones from the surround setup? I need the sub to work as a sub only speaker for the entire movie not for only the surround special effects... if I’m correct.. this is what I need.. Sonos Beam, 2 ikea surround speakers, sub with ikea speaker for only the sub from other room setup
Thanks! Since you were getting a signal for the sub from the surround speakers then yes you’re only getting bass directed to the surround channels. However in my testing I was surprised to find that there is a lot of base information in the surrounds
@@todd.parker thanks for your quick response, if so it will safe me a $ 100,- .. I have to try it out! Thanks you and all the best! Greets from the Netherlands 🇳🇱
Great video - Thanks --- @ 7:54 you show an app control of sub audio - is sub audio control available on the app seeing as you dont have a sonos sub (i.e. How does sonos know you have a sub being used to control "sub" audio? or can you adjust sub audio with just the Symphonisk mod & 3rd party sub working?)
Ah, I was comparing my Sonos sub vs. the hack there in the video to see if I was missing anything. With this hack, Sonos never “sees” a sub, we’re just siphoning off a signal to fee a powered sub so you’d use the volume knob on the sub to control the levels.
@@todd.parker Thanks Todd - your vids have been a great help - Question: do you need both Symphoisk modded low end outputs to feed the sub -or- just one side. Basically, I have a playbase, will be adding 2 Symphoisk for rear channels behind me up high on wall of 2 story Family Room - I'm assuming I will need to run wires back from each to Smphonisk to my sub... no problem if I have to run all the wires. but just wondering if I need both sides for sub?
You can probably hook it up to home assistant and sync the volume :)
Worth a try!
Do you recon this setup would work for a buttkicker/bass shaker/transducer as well?
I wouldn't recommend using the Symfonisk to drive it's internal woofer and a bass shaker in parallel because that will stress the amp. If you disconnected the internal drivers and used the amp to driver the shaker, that should work but the amp is only 50 watts or so. In this scenario, you'd have to set this up as a grouped "room" as I show in the video so you have to deal with the slight delay and lack of volume sync.
Would it be possible to use 3 Symfonik speakers? 2 used as rear and third that act as "bridge" to a non Sonos base?
Yep, I cover that in detail in my wiring guide video.
Is there a way to add only a sub to the beam? I have a similar Polk sub. I don’t really need rear speakers
Sure. The same principle would work with any powered speaker, including the Beam. You would need to figure out how to disassemble it enough to get access to a woofer to connect a wire and find a tidy and air tight way to get it out of the enclosure but once you do, you can run that wire into the speaker input on your sub and it should work fine. The Symfonisks are just cheaper and easier to take apart so I’ve been playing with those.
Hi Todd did you test if when you feed only a stereo signal. Will there be any bass directed to the surrounds/sub?
Yes, seems the full frequency spectrum is sent to the surrounds with music and movies. It sounds better if the music settings are set to full, not ambient
@@todd.parker I was thinking about normal TV, which my settopbox only outputs in stereo. Would that still send bass to the surrounds? I cannot set the speakers to full as with muzic as it receives the signal through hdmi...
I have a Sonos beam with two Play:1's configured as surround speakers so I would love to add a sub woofer to complete the set-up.
If I purchased one Symfonisk speaker, disconnected both drivers in it and wired the bass feed to drive a sub would that work?
Would the Sonos app allow me to configure it into my setup?
Basically I don''t really want the Symfonisk to be playing just use to integrate the third party sub into my Beam and two play1 set-up.
That’s the grouped room setup I cover in the video. Yes, it works but there will be a slight delay and the sub volume won’t update if you use a remote (but will if you use the app)
@@todd.parker Yes, to get round this I was wondering if it would be possible to add the Symfonisk speaker to my existing Living Room setup?
This would mean in my Living Room group I would have the Beam, two Play:1's as surrounds and the Symfonisk with the Symfonisk's drivers disconnected and it driving the sub.
Scott McPhee ah, I see. I don’t think that’s possible as there are pre-defined “slots” to add surrounds and a sub to a sound bar. You can’t just add arbitrary speakers to that.
@@todd.parker What are the pre-defined slots for the sound bar? I'm thinking of trying sympfonisk/subwoofer, and a bunch of Play 1s throughout the house.... (in the process of getting a sonos beam)
Willis Wong I just mean that the way home theater works in the Sonos app is you add a beam/Playbar and inside the configuration for that speaker there are places to add on a sub and surrounds (slots) which is different than just grouping a bunch of speakers. So you basically need a Beam or Playbar to set up a surround system, hope that makes sense
But the rear ikea speakers don’t have up firing. Do you feel the rear is lacking 3D surround sound?
None of the Sonos surround speakers have upward firing drivers but it’s pretty 3D
What do you have for a setup for your outdoor speakers? I've been trying to think of a permanent solution without buying the move or the amp
I have an old amp powering outside passive speakers. You could use the symfonisk amps by running a 4 conductors wire to outdoor speakers and bypassing the internal crossovers. You could even trueplay them!
@@todd.parker you should make a video on that setup!
I wonder if anyone has tried doing this with the Sonos sub board or if it would even be of a significant difference to try to achieve 'true' 5.1. But Sonos is a compromise as is. What is the Sonos sub like in comparison to adding your own sub via the Symf hack?
The official sub integrates better because it’s tapping into the .1 channel but I’m very happy with the sub hack of the surrounds. Still using it months later
Question....I’m a bass freak and want to do a similar set up on a stereo pair of Sonos Ones (For use in my master bath - yes weird, but I like my music in the bathroom...and extra bass would be great.). Is the gateway setup the best way to achieve cost effective bass (1 cheap sub and 1 Symfonisk as a gateway)? I do not mind the slight lag or the necessity of adjusting volume via the app. Thanks!
You could use the grouped room approach but I think either tapping into one (or both) Play:1s get a wire attached to the woofer to drive the sub would be a lot cleaner looking and easier to use. If opening and modifying the Play:1s is daunting (they are packed tight), using a pair of Symfonisks with the sub would be a good way to go. You plan would certainly work but having to find a spot for the Symfonisk (and the extra cost) is a consideration. I like the idea of a sub in the bathroom, jealous.
Oh, I meant to mention that if you’re playing music in the bathroom, grouping a second room won’t add lag but you will have to deal with the sub’s volume not changing when you use the volume rocker. The lag only happens when you group a home theater room with a music room because Sonos uses a faster 5ghz network for just the HT room to reduce lag but can’t do that for other rooms, maybe because that network frequency doesn’t travel as far.
Certainly not a problem on the volume control. I’m always fiddling with it anyway when I have multiple rooms running. Tapping into the Play1 sounds a little scary but certainly do-able. I was just thinking that the Symfonisk as a gateway tucked nearly in the base cabinet along with the sub would be a neat $100 solution given that I already have an old sub.
Can’t wait to see what Patrick Spence’ work around is gonna be for the legacy products subsequent to his damage control email. I’ve got 2 Connects and a Play 5 gen 1 that will patiently wait for their potential use as paper weights. If they do figure out how to integrate updates for both Legacy and Modern products within one app, there will be a lot of happy folks out there.
Sounds like the grouped option is best for you. I hope they keep the older stuff going, most of my system is the older stuff
Dear Todd, thank you for this great video. I have a question please. Since the sub is connected to the Ikea speaker, which is a small speaker, and rear channel. Would it be the same when I hook up one Ikea and one Sonos 5 speaker as rear channels? Because the Sonos 5 has 3 woofers in it? Or maybe, 2 Sonos 5 rear channels? Sorry if it's a silly question. I'm totally new to the Sonos world. Kind regards, Emanuel
I have only the Sonos Arc at the moment. Greets from the Netherlands
Hi. Sonos will only let you add a matter pair of speakers for surrounds so you can’t mix them like that
So the sub gets constant bass in surround sound even if rears aren't being emphasized during the movie?
From my testing, yes there is pretty constant bass in the rear channels. There may be additional bass info in the .1 channel I’m missing but it really rumbles hard during a movie
Can you use method 1 with only one symfonisk speaker, set it as one of the rear channels in the Sonos app, then disable the tweeter as you did in method 2? This seems like you'd eliminate the lag and volume problem, while also utilizing the same resources of method 2 (i.e. only 1 symfonik).
I think you need to add a matching pair of rear speakers so a single won’t work unfortunately. The new Sonos app and some 3rd party apps will let you permanently group rooms and manage the levels better now too
@@todd.parker That's great news - so the updated app plays nice with method 2? I'm interested in the Beam, but already have a power sub, looking for a 2.1 setup. So I'm less inclined to purchase 2 Symfonik speakers if I'm not actually going to be using surround sound.
Todd - when you say to wire the sub output back to the Sonos do you mean: 1. Disconnect the inside subwoofer wires (blue big, white small) and wire those to the external sub input... then take the external sub output and wire that to the speaker terminals on the Sonos where the blue/white would have gone? Do I make sense? Most people tell me no. :)
Yes, that’s exactly it. You’re plugging the woofers amp into the sub’s input, then wiring the sub’s output to the symfonisks woofer. This filters out the bass at the sub’s crossover frequency going into the small symfonisk woofer
I've seen a lot of people saying that the Sonos Sub helps improve the clarity of the Beam/Arc by removing some of the heavy lifting. Would this hack also help or would it make no difference? (I'm presuming the latter at the moment)
No difference because Sonos doesn’t know a sub is attached
@@todd.parker those were my thoughts too - thank you for the reply!
So total how many siifoniks speakers. 2 for rear and one for cheap sub ?? Right??
Yes, just 2. Check out my follow up videos where I explain how to wire everything
Todd. Has anyone tried this with the new picture frames at ikea?
Should work same way. I no think the electronics are the same on all the symfonisk
Could I get two SYMFONISK speakers to pair with my sub and playbar? The Sonos one SL are too expensive.
Yep, as long as you have a pair it will work
I dont understand why do I need to disconnect or turn off the woofer or tweeder? Also how do you wie the line out of the sub just in to the tweeder?
This video should answer all your questions: czcams.com/video/9Bvof0hF4LE/video.html
Hi Todd, my new Symfonisk surrounds don't have jacks in the back. Nor does my old Sony subwoofer. Do you think I can open them both up, use piggyback lugs, drill a hole in each case to connect them with cables?
Essentially, speaker lugs on the Symfonisk connected directly to speaker lugs on the sub
You need to add the binding posts yourself to the symfonisks. If your Sony sub doesn’t have speaker inputs you can buy a converter. Look for my Sonos wiring guide video for all the details
@@todd.parker I watched the wiring video you had suggested. Filled with great info. would you please help me understand the need for the converter in my case. Couldnt I do exactly the same hookup on the IKEA and the sony sub using binding posts on each. And then connecting the two? Really appreciate your guidance.
@@allenberman8446 if your sub only has RCA inputs and not speaker terminals then wiring a powered woofer to the RCA will sound very distorted and may damage your sub. A powered woofer can be 1-100 watts while RCA input are designed for very low power signal that are hundreds or thousands of times less powerful. A converter runs less than $20.
I understand that. There are no connections whatsoever on my Sony sub. It was designed for the Sony sound bar surround system. I no longer have that Sony system. Only the sub.
How to setup if you only want to use te sub? I have a playbar and two sonos one
This video should cover every scenario in detail: czcams.com/video/9Bvof0hF4LE/video.html
Is there any way I can hook up an old subwoofer with a Sonos One 🤔🤔
If it’s a powered subwoofer, yes. You can use this same idea with any Sonos speaker - just jump off the woofer terminals to feed the speaker inputs on the sub. The Sonos one will be a bit harder to get apart but it will with great
Thanks for your reply!
Hi - Can someone suggest way to biamp woofer - but connect directly to lfe? Is there a cable that can be used to do so? Thanks in advance
Can you explain what you mean?
@@todd.parker Hi Todd. I would like to take a two pin RCA (RED and WHITE). Cut the other end. Expose positive and negatives for both wire RED and WHITE. Merge positive to positive and Negative to Negative of both wires. Biamp those to Symfonisk woofer like you showed. Connect RCA White to White on Subwoofer and RED pin to RED on Subwoofer. Any danger? By the way - My subwoofer is Infinity tss-500 Sub. I am not worried about it. But, I am worried about Electrical plug and house wiring fire hazards.
@@eewroiroieutrip If you connect both amps together like that, I'm pretty sure it will blow them up. Check out my follow-up video that shows wiring diagrams for every possible scenario here: czcams.com/video/9Bvof0hF4LE/video.html
Since that sub only has RCA connections, you should attach a wire from the + and - on the synfonisk woofer, run it to your sub and use a high level (speaker) to low level (signal) converter to properly adapt the signal to RCA for your sub. If you don't use a converter, it will sound distorted. I cover this in detail in the video above.
@@todd.parker Thank you. I will do that.
any way to do this with a wireless sub?
I wouldn’t recommend that, especially if it’s Bluetooth, since that will have a noticeable delay and will sound out of sync.
The only thing that keeps me from doing a Sonos Home Theater System is I want to have 4 Atmos In-Ceiling speakers for a 5.1.4 configuration
My hunch is Sonos will announce Atmos support this year. The speculation on why they are end of life’ing older Sonos speakers is they can’t handle things like Atmos so they had to make that announcement before rolling out new features. We’ll have to wait and see...
Have you tried using
5 symphonic Ikea speakers and a Sub ?
Well, if you’re thinking of that for home theater, there isn’t a way to set it up that way in the Sonos app. The Beam and Playbar are treated as a special case sort of speaker that lets you fill slots for surrounds and a sub. You can’t group 5 speakers and have it work as a home theater setup
Are you connecting both the left and right rear speakers to the powered subwoofer? Or just one side? Does it matter?
Honestly I’m only connecting the left channel right now and it sounds great. Running the cable across the room for the right channel us too much of a hassle. From a practical perspective it’s all you need to do. Yes, some films may only send certain low end signals to one side, but I think that’s very infrequent and not a big deal to me if I miss an occasional rumble.
Is this on the S1 app?
It was, now it’s on the S2 app
You can also use the Sonos Amp (the new one, not connect:amp) and connect it to the TV using HDMI, instead of a sonos soundbar. That way you can use speakers of your own choosing for front left and right channels. However, there won't be an explicit speaker for the center channel. That is mixed between the two front speakers. If you go this route, you there is also the possibility to wire an external sub (coaxial wire) to a subwoofer, so you don't have to use sonos sub. You can still connect surround channels like with a sonos soundbar surround setup.
Good point. That setup won’t decode Dolby digital 5.1 but would be a high quality stereo setup
Todd Parker Actually, it will decode dolby digital 5.1. But it will mix the center channel together with front left and right channels.
Robin Grönberg interesting, thanks for the info
Here’s a question how weird would it be to take and have two IKEA speakers and then put a small powered sub on on both left and right speaker instead of one sub with wires coming in from the left and right speaker. So the simple method twice? Just don’t want wires going across the house.
Absolutely. That’s sound sound great.
👍
I might try this myself. I have a Sonos Sub which is 14 months old, that no longer works and is out of warranty. I'm not impressed. It sounded great when it worked.
That’s a bummer. Sorry you got a lemon. This might be a cheap way to get some bass back. I’d be leery to buy a new sub now, it’s a pretty old product
Play 3s discontinued
The hits just keep coming. That’s 4 speakers and two amps for me
Todd Parker it’s legacy too, they’ve issued a statement saying that software updates can no longer be installed on connect amps, play 5s, 3s and bridges. You can trade in for newer models, but essentially that’s the issue with wireless hifi, as opposed to wired.
A wired sub isn’t a big problem but wired rears isn’t worth the $ savings
Are you referring to the speaker wire that leads from the surround to feed the sub?
A bunch more wires that you gotta drill into the speakers kinda defeats the purpose. Might as well save 500 more for the real deal imo
Douglas Brown It’s neat that there’s a way around it. Good vid but your right it ain’t for me lol
So, you're not getting an actual 5.1 system, you're getting a 5.0 system. In a proper setup the .1 sub channel is discrete in that it has its own entirely separate audio track and the only way you will get that true .1 in a Sonos setup is if it's actually added in the same way that a normal Sonos sub is, then Sonos knows to direct the decoded .1 channel to the sub. Where people get confused, they think all the sub .1 channel is doing is filtering the bass from the rest of the 5. channels and diverting it to the sub on the .1 channel... which is exactly what you're doing here but for the rear channels only, so you're just making "really big" surround speakers.
However, to confuse things a little further, that is in fact what normal AVRs are doing, using a crossover on all the main channels to divert their bass to the .1 sub channel _however_, it is doing this in addition to sending the sub its own .1 discrete audio channel and mixing the entire summed low frequency signals from the main channels and the .1 channel together.
All true and good info, thanks. I cover this in detail in my wiring video. It’s not the same as true 5.1 but it does add some great low end on the cheap.
Go with Vizio
Not sure what you mean...can you explain?
Seems overly complicated. Why not just buy a HDMI audio splitter with 3.5mm jack output and buy the appropriate cable to connect the jack output to your non-Sonos sub. Or am I missing something ?😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀
Guess that could work but the HDMI output wouldn’t stay in sync with the Sonos sound level so the balance would be pretty wonky. Also, there will be a fairly big delay (75ms) between the Sonos and sub which would be very noticeable so you’d need to add a delay to the sub to sync them.
@@todd.parker Why wouldn't the line level audio output from the HDMI not stay in sync .. both are fed from the same source at the same time ? Why would there be a 75mm delay when the processing is done by chips operating in the Mhz range .. ie no delay. Would welcome your thoughts.
Seems the delay might be closer to 30ms in this scenario but there is always a delay for signal going into the Sonos system. en.community.sonos.com/what-to-get-228989/sonos-amp-audio-delay-pre-purchase-questions-6875803
As far as input levels go, if Sonos and the sub are fed the same line level input from hdmi, you’d need to adjust the sub level separately from the Sonos by adjusting the volume level in the sub. Yes, you can use the tv side to control the signal level to both but if you adjusted the volume side on the Sonos side, wouldn’t that change the ratio between the Sonos and sub and they could sound imbalanced? Not saying this won’t work but it has its own downsides.
How the system knows , that a Symfonik is now a sub? Every speaker has is own program ….how the system knows that, that it become is sub control.
Sonos never knows there’s subwoofer connected I would ever sees is a symfonisk speaker. We’re just skimming a signal off the roofer to feed into the subwoofer