How Do We Talk About The Cosby Show? A Retrospective
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- čas přidán 12. 05. 2024
- This one was tough. Watching the show was a simple enough process, but the many, many different critiques, commentaries, and academic papers I read added a lot of time to making what is now my longest video ever. And to make it even tougher, Bill Cosby was released from prison when I was nearly done the whole thing. I inserted a bit of extra info to include that information, but if he's done or said anything terrible since it happened (which seems likely), the video won't include that information.
0:00 - Intro
1:18 - Before The Cosby Show
6:59 - Meet The Huxtables
12:23 - The Early Years, Seasons 1-3
41:09 - A Different World
45:29 - Growing Up, Season 4 & 5
55:19 - Come On, Let's Go, Season 6-8
1:26:32 - The Huxtable Legacy
1:32:31 - In For A Pound
1:36:51 - What Bill Did
1:44:03 - A Farewell
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Sources
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-rat...
hegemonyremedy.wordpress.com/...
www.latimes.com/archives/la-x...
people.com/archive/made-to-br...
www.latimes.com/archives/la-x...
web.archive.org/web/201712210...
www.nytimes.com/1989/11/12/ar...
web.archive.org/web/202106101...
www.latimes.com/archives/la-x...
library.uoregon.edu/sites/def...
www.blackpast.org/african-ame...
www.buzzfeednews.com/article/...
www.npr.org/templates/story/s...
www.phillymag.com/news/2006/0...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_....
www.salon.com/2015/07/12/how_...
www.chicagotribune.com/column...
afropunk.com/2018/10/bill-cos...
Background information from the book "African Americans on Television: Race-ing for Ratings", edited by David J. Leonard and Lisa Guerrero - Zábava
The Cosbys were defiently not middle class. They were upper class, a doctor and a lawyer, who could afford to send 5 kids to Ivy Leauge colleges and buy 11,000 dollar paintings on a whim.
By the logic of late 20th century sitcoms they were still considered middle class because Cliff Huxtable wasn't the owner of a hospital and Clair didn't have her name on an office building
america has a very weird relation with the label "upper class", in my opinion, because of the truly obscene wealth gap. when "extremely well off" can conceivably mean "nice house, graduate degrees, can send your kids to college" OR "owns 3 mansions, a yacht, and vacations in the Netherlands for skiing every winter" it's weird to classify that as the same thing. I'm not saying they weren't very privileged (they definitely were) but like... the language to define that is really difficult
@@amelianannette972 The Netherlands has mountains to ski in? I thought it was flat LOL
@@ToruKun1 it is flat 💀. I think 1/3 of it is reclaimed land from the sea
It cost a lost less to send a kid to university.
I always liked what SNL actor Michael Che said, “ bill Cosby might be a monster, but Dr. Huxtable raised a generation.”
That sums it up perfectly.
I was born a few days before the finale but Cliff & Clair definitely always felt like family when I started watching. ❤️
It's sad that he's a monster, because he was the father everyone wanted.
The fact that Dr. Huxtable did raise a generation can be just as frightening though because he also avoided teaching a lot of lessons that needed to be learned. Of course if Cosby had tried to teach those lessons then there would have been no Cosby Show since that wasn't what NBC was looking for.
@@matthewroberts6833 I agree. Definitely a double edged sword since there was a lot of lessons missed.
Theo becoming a teacher, despite his learning disability, is something that stuck with me, even though I haven't watched the show since it went off the air. It probably has something to do with why I became a teacher myself.
Man, the Cosby showing falling to 'only' 15 million viewers is wild. Television would kill for numbers that good today, when the highest-watched shows rarely break eight million.
for traditional tv, sure, but they don't have the population to really get that anymore (there is enough audience, but they dont go to traditional tv for that stuff) - you need to also have it be streaming or streaming only to get the big numbers nowadays.
Yea and most are below 3 million on the broadcast channels
The television landscape has changed significantly with streaming and recording.
Or 3-4 million in cable news or on broadcast
There were not as many series and especially not many other media such as CZcams fighting for the viewer's attention back in the 90s.
Fun Fact: my aunt actually owns the painting from "The Auction" at 25:30. She was friends with a person in the props department when the show ended and they gave her the painting as a gift for her birthday.
Wow! After I watched that episode, one thing I did was check future episodes, and you can see that painting as a permanent fixture in the Huxtable home. That's a really neat memento!
Right place, right time
Sell it for 11,000 dollars
Growing up we had a duplicate of that painting lol
Question: how good of a replica is it? Is it simply a print of the painting, or is it made to look like more than a print?
As a white kid in rural America i knew only two black kids before i got to high school. Watching The Cosby Show growing up i think helped cement in my mind that a black family was not really any different than a white one. The fact that much of the Cosby show was normal "family" drama stuff helped me not notice they were black. And then when the rare episode would come out where someone _DID_ treat them differently because they were black it hit me hard. That i saw a "normal" family not to dissimilar from mine suddenly being treated poorly just because of their race when i KNEW they were good people really stuck with me. And while my immediate family was not racist in any way, some of my extended family and even friends at school were. So The Cosby Show sort of laid a foundation in me that helped protect me from feeling drawn into being a bigot later on in life. His show did a lot of good.
That being said Cosby himself is still an abhorrent man and it makes me angry that all the good the show did is now tainted. But there are lots of other black sitcoms that have filled the void his show left, so its not a total loss.
Well said.
I'm glad to hear the Cosby Show did real good. I, too come from an area with very few Black families (many people of other minorities, though) and have to admit seeing Black, prosperous characters on an extremely popular show did open my mind. But I'm probably older than you, and remember shows that had normal family drama AND social criticism, like Good Times and The Jeffersons. The Cosby Show set its sites very low: portray a solid, successful Black family where race is not a "problem" (the way today, perhaps a trans character would be portrayed as a "problem", not a person). It was highly promoted in the Reagan era as the way things should be: Black people pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, no problems that could not be solved in a half-hour show, and white people not having to do too much. Not that there's no place for Black conservatism, but that was the ONLY message for a long time.
Bill Cosby did absolute jack shit to those lying scum. Everyone who says that he's guilty doesn't know a goddamn thing about what happened. Dru Story News has numerous videos documenting the targeted effort to take down Bill Cosby. No doubt about it.
What makes you think he's an abhorrent man. You weren't present for any other encounters, nor do you know anyone who was.
@@EnergonCubed No. Just no. Go away. I can't even. Just no.
My wife went to Spellman because of A Different World. That show single handedly sent a generation of black kids to school and saved a lotta HBCU's.
As a spelmanite, i have to correct you 😅 Spelman*
I remember a lot of 90s Black sitcoms had characters wearing different HBCU sweatshirts. It was so subtle ❤
I would love for somebody to make a video on the Cosby Show's influence outside of the US. Many Black Latinos and Black Caribbean would have never imagined attending a university before the Cosby show.
Being Dyslexic myself and now having a son with dyslexia I was encouraged to see a person of
Color who dealt with this misunderstood learning disabilities
But you spread your genes.
CordeliaWagner-What lol?
To the channel creator: You handled this was a discerning eye, a calm voice, and a comforting presence. You broke everything down SO well despite how hard and large a topic and it’s beyond impressive. I’m grateful. Thank you 🤗💜
More gay pretentious preaching and a voice that could peel paint with a constipated sneering whine.
@@SovereignStatesman in the same sentence you used "conspitated sneering whine" you accused someone of sounding "gay". lmfao
@@SovereignStatesman
-using gay as an insult
-saved playlist of MGTOW vids
-old channel name "Soverign Statesman"
-Uploaded a Hillary SNL skit
-constantly whining about this channel's videos over weeks and weeks
You should'nt make fun of people's voices if you are such an easy target.
@@nightandfayeify OUCH. Got 'em.
I agree. This video was narrated beautifully. The analysis was quite good, and reconciles Cosby vs. Huxtable quite well.
I never realized how conservative the show was. I remember the first episode was a huge cultural moment. My mother was a nurse and took off early to come home and watch it with my dad (who was an A/C master technician and foreman) and I. As a black family, I remember being proud. But also realizing they were ahead of us economically. Even a lot of my white friends. They were upper middle class/rich. It wasn't as relatable. This was a time when a father making $15 per hour could support a stay at home wife and kids with minimal issues. Cliff would have been making bare minimum 110k during this time period. Clair probably made at least 75k,it's more difficult to define. I remember the show served more as a look at what could be possible vs what actually was. It had it's errors, but still think the show was important. Family Matters was a bit more realistic economically.
I would be very surprised if Clair did not make more money than Cliff. Though I remember scant details about his job, he's essentially at the top of his compensation-wise. They never mentioned him conducting research or specializing within a particular topic within obstetrics or gynecology. I always assumed that she worked at a mid-sized law firm since she had a healthy home life. Big-law will suck all of your time but at the same time, compensate you very generously. Unless you're practicing human rights or environmental law, your compensation as a partner at a law firm can be very flexible and potentially, quite generous.
yes however for me i watched a few episodes of the first season and had to give up because to me it felt like just another generic sitcom and i say this because i am shocked my wife and kids did not do copy and past of the first episode. like maybe its because i did not grow up in the 80s and i am from canada and even as a kid never really got into sitcoms(i was born in 1988) maybe after viewing in it in 2021 comparing to what tv has been over the last 30 years at least in terms of sitcoms(and yes this is without what we know about about cobsy and me judging the show on its own) i just think its one of the most stock generic sitcoms out there. like i said this is just based upon watching the first dozen episodes or so.
And then Family Matters threw it all out and was like "let's just make it be Urkel doing crazy things!"
The first episodes the family lived in a middle class house and they had four children not five. Then as usual they have to change it.
The Winslows lived in a house not too dissimilar from the Huxtables'. They had more common jobs, but their living environment did not show the difference between the respective lifestyles of Carl and Harriet vs. Heath and Claire.
Vanessa's "rich girl" conflict was actually very realistic. There are alot of things that divided the black community... She would have definitely been labeled a stuck up, snobby, spoiled brat ("she think she all that") and her parents, uncle Tom's, sellouts, etc...(I mean, it's the whole reason we came up with the term "HATERS" lol) Also I think the fact that they did not face alot of the issues their friends brought up would have been a direct result of their parents tackling smaller issues with them and not allowing them to grow into larger issues. Also, Cliff and Claire took a vested interest in the well being of their Kids' friends as well.
I thought so to. For a family in the 80s I imagine it showed a felt disconnect to the rest of the black community or their disconnect with Vanessa
Definitely. Although I enjoyed this video there are certain points that fell flat because only those in the black community can truly understand the cultural nuances.
I like the analysis overall but I felt Jose missed the mark here. One of my favourite episodes of The Fresh Prince is when Carlton gets mocked for being a sellout and makes a really powerful speech as he walks out.
I think they were upper middle class rich to being first class rich. They offered Pam to pay for her college too. They offered Alvin to help him with a down payment on a home. The show was meant for them to be poor. Sondra’s total college fee was over $700’000. As Clair stated when she was mad Sondra was dropping out school to open a wilderness store. I think they were middle class but not that far off of being first class rich.
Sondra’s total Princeton tuition was 79,000 and change.- “after all the money we spent sending you to Princeton. Sondra, you owe us…and I want my money now.” Big difference between 70,000 and 700,000.
@@brooklynbutter5357 That was a typo that I did not feel like changing and still won’t. Yes. I meant to say $70’000. But knowing CZcams. I knew someone was going to come with the blah blah blah but and here you are.
@@tamara_diamonds422 lol. Anyways you’re welcome
$11,000 for a piece of art that doesn't even feature your fursona? That really is an indulgence.
It was an investment.
I’m dying hahaha
It was made by her uncle he lost it because he needed money in a time that dudbt have alot of opp for black people. Clair wanted it back in the family so she bought it.
@@lelelew2735 I was being facetious. I'm sorry that was not immediately obvious. I will make an effort to make it more clear next time
I feel personally attacked.
its mind blowing that the parents problem with dabnus was centered around his class status and the fact that it was a secret, and not the fact that he was a THIRTY year old
And WORKED at her SCHOOL?!
And wasn't she 18 when the year long relationship was revealed? So she was 17 when they first started dating 🤔
Vanessa announces she is engaged to someone they never heard of. It's like Denise bringing Martin home without ever saying anything to her parents.
Acceptable paedophilia for the lose. :(
@@FS-qk5uq I never even noticed that I always assumed she was 18 when they started dating but Vanessa graduated early so.....ewww
The whole Lisa Bonet incident was what gave me the first real impression of Bill. The ultimate control freak who wanted a more sanitized version of the show. It confirmed more of what I thought of what he was. Problems happen in the real world, not my world.
All art isn't mean to be heavily politicized. Not because it's trying to shield people from the horrors of the world but because certain things just don't integrate well with it. That's why the Different World worked so much better in what people needed from the Cosby Show. It gave people what wanted they and made it interesting in writing. The Cosby Show was more of a TONE you had to vibe it and not expect more from what you were getting.
But it is his spin-off show
@@darnellmajor9016 but A Different World was a bit edgy
lol he had a family show and didn't want her being naked and having sex on screen cuz he felt it went against how cliff would raise his kids. Perfectly understandable ffs. Same thing happened when Dana Plato got pregnant young on diff'rent strokes. Hollywood is a business.
Same. I was a kid and remember being creeped out by it. It was one of the first times I remember feeling crazy because the adults in my life and on the news kept acting like Cosby was in the right. But even as an elementary schooler I picked up it was controlling and he felt he had a right over her.
As someone who grew up watching The Cosby Show, I’ve never seen such a detailed, intricate breakdown of this show and it’s many moving parts as brilliantly done as yours. I’ve been deep into celebrating 80’s nostalgia over the past few years and too much of my childhood is wrapped in this show. It was a safe space for those of us that were growing up in less than favorable conditions and it showed dimensions to who we were and who we could become. One thing I realized while watching the episodes you references is that they hit very differently now that I’m older and can understand the subject matter better, something that’s going to make me binge this very soon. How much I’ll be able to separate who Cosby was from this show is yet to be determined but IMO, it’s too much of an important part of my generations upbringing to completely abandon it.
It’s so ironic that Eddie Murphy, a black comedian who made a name for himself being edgy and crude, is more of a decent human being than than the black comedian who made a name for himself being wholesome and a “good role model”. Even Eddie Murphy himself sees the irony.
Eddie Murphy is real, Bill Cosby was fake. One told the truth, the other peddled soft, comfortable lies. It's ironic with hindsight, I suppose.
He also could have paid someone to push the trans hooker he gave a ride to off a roof lol I love ediie but everyone is hollywood is dirty. Your first and BIGGEST mistake (like 80% of saps out there) is BELIEVING one celebrity is a better person than another simply because only one has had their dirty laundry exposed. People really need to get a clue and stop worshipping celebs, All the shit we learned in the past 30 yrs has all of a sudden been forgotten cuz the inernet has rotted your brains.
@@DJRitty Its hard for me to be too hard on people. even before social media, people had a tough time separating performance work from the person that is the celeb. They view them as we all should, individuals first. But these celebs do not have a 1:1 individual relationship with most people in their life like the rest of us do, and some of the worship is just the misunderstanding of how these celebs behave with a public persona that none of us ever have to do the song and dance around.
bill cosby was reaching to obtain a non reality to be among people who didn't want him unless he shuck & jived...he followed their behavior thinking he was gonna slide like them...foolish.
@@virallcullture8585 when did cosby shuck and jive? lmao
$11,000 in 1985 is now $27,500.
D:
Oh, no problem! If I just work for 10 months without paying any of my bills, I can afford it. I'll be homeless, but hey, I'll have a really nice painting.
Dang!! But they couldn't of just sent that poor girl to college!!
Good bot.
@@heydeanie Maybe they needed to buy more paintings.
"The Cosby Show" is so complicated because I used to watch reruns with my mom when I was a kid, and Bill Cosby interacting with Ruby, or with Raven-Symone's character later on, always reminded me of my grandfather, who was goofy and good with kids. Obviously, that sentiment didn't age well.
I've been working my way through all the sitcom retrospectives. I was rather surprised to see no mention of Theo's best friend Cockroach.
I feel bad for all the people who put so much work into the Cosby Show only to have it all tarnished by Bill's heinous actions.
My thoughts exactly.
Still a good show ok get over it he did his time
Blame to the corrupted American justice system because they didn't respect Bill Cosby's presumption of innocence. Accuse civilly before a criminal trial is totally illegal and unconstitutional.
@@toneythompson1125 ehhhhh, "doing time" doesn't exactly absolve the acts that got him there in the first place and maybe it's just me but when I know a person pretty regularly drugged and raped women it's a little hard to separate Cliff from Bill.
@@CarolinaGonzalez-ik8mj oh, I blame them for him getting back out on such a stupid technicality for sure, but Cosby did the majority of the damage.
Man i gotta say, all flaws aside with this show, Phylicia Rashad never missed once with her performance. She was absolutely incredible
What flaws do you think the show had? Not arguing with you. Just curious.
She proved herself a great actress but could she have possibly "missed" on a grander scale and been any more deplorable than how she went about defended Cosby? She desperately wanted everything to just go away and went so far as to treat his greater than 60 accusers as liars. I understand friendship and how the justice system works but I lost all respect for Rashad. The only time she relented at all was when her employer Howard University made her issue an apology. I honestly find her to be a wretched, sickening disgrace.
@@franklingordon3354 She genuinely believes Bill Cosby is not guilty. I'd say she would qualify as deplorable if she believes he's guilty but defends him anyway. Sometimes people support those they love in earnestness and a genuine belief in their innocence even if it's false, which is understandable imo.
@@BunnySlippers82 bruh there were over 60 accusers.... OVER SIXTY. And all of them are lying? Whats the probability of that? How could she genuinely believe that he's the innocent one? I don't get it
I remember back in the day when I pretended to be sick from school just so I could watch re-runs of The Cosby Show in the middle of the day.
I was a Black child who had friends that did things that I wasn’t in to. I related a lot to the Huxtable kids in the way that they trusted their parents and weren’t easily influenced by their peers.
As a note I greatly appreciate how you always ALWAYS give every actor's name. Doesn't matter if they ever did more work in the industry or how small a part they had. It really gives such a deep respect to the craft. All the more important when it comes to this show- being that nearly everyone on the show is Black the ability for them to get more work is... well, more difficult than say those on Roseanne (for systemic reasons) and if you only paid attention to those who did more acting later on there would be quite a few Black actors that would just get ignored.
This is specifically about all the guest stars, recurring or otherwise.
I was diagnosed as dyslexic when I was eight. Growing up, there weren't many disabled characters on TV in general. I remember watching the story of Theo discovering he was dyslexic, and his sister taring down how his parents acted. I knew why I wasn't able to do what others could, and I still related to so many moments with him. The line with him talking about moving through life with a flashlight hits hard.
I have two degrees and am a novelist, but I still feel that moment in my sole.
That was probably based on Cosby's son Ennis, who was a medical student that was later murdered. Ennis also had dyslexia.
Check out the Bollywood movie Tare Zameen Pyar. It also features a teacher student duo with dyslexia and starts Aamir Khan who has it as well. It’s worth your time!
*soul
Cool! What kind of novels do you write?
I write professionally, teach --and have taught--in grad schools and have lectured all over the world. I'm also an editor. So please, tell me, you feel this in the bottom of your foot? Or in a fish that you bought for dinner?
This might be the most thoughtful and COMPLETE retrospective for any show I've ever seen... 🤔
God, I used to watch reruns of this everyday after school and it was one of my favorite shows. I haven't seen it in years, but just watching the clips in the first few minutes of this makes me want to cry, it's like seeing an old friend you didn't know you missed
You never miss José. As a huge fan of this show growing up, it's hard to seperate the art from the artist.
The Cosby Show and A Different Wolrd were foundational for me growing up. Navigating how to look at it now is tough, but something that makes me angry is the way a lot of pundits and critics go out and determine unilaterally that anything and everything Bill Cosby ever did is completely without merit. As an individual, I would like some say in what I can find merit in. I appreciate Jose leaving enough space to do that.
@kollie79 every time I see Cosby's face I wanna vomit knowing what he did. I legitimately can't enjoy it the way I did before. Rapists are actual monsters. I wish I could separate it, mostly because I feel bad for the rest of the cast because now *their* reputation is tarnished.
Just a sad situation all around.
@@gabbyb9418 agree completely. I loved this show so much, and I have loved this man my whole life... What a total betrayal. Of all those women, and to all us who were kids that looked up to this man & loved this man as if he were our own family. And I'm just as disappointed in phyllicia for sticking up for him.
However, if someone wants to replay "a different world", I'll be there ASAP
I not only loved this show, I grew up loving his stand up comedy as well. I had his stand up on cassette and would listen to it all the time. Even saw him live once. It's a really difficult thing to reconcile. A man who delivered what I still consider genius level comedy turned outs to be a really terrible person. What are you supposed to do? On one hand, I want to just remove that from my experience. On the other hand, I want to find a way to recognize how complicated a human life is - that this man can have given really incredibly positive influences to the world and also at the same time caused incredible harm.
@@TheFhqwhgadsLimit Had all the albums on cassette, memorized "Noah", went to see him at Radio City Music Hall in 1985. First concert. I was 15.
Damn...
Not sure if this matters to you, but I'd love to see a video on Boy Meets World. A lot of that show is covering the class struggle.
This!
I still can't get over the fuckin' "Commonism" episode of Girl Meets World
@@stardustspark5682 and the spanish class episode, and the one where Cory's daugther freaks out cause her best friend "doesnt belive in god" (tho i dont remember that one)
Dude when I was a homeschooled teenager that could stay up all night if see that show play for hours between like midnight and 5am! Would just okay Works if Warcraft and watch Boy Meets World all night
@@alejandrocervantes3624 Let's not forget when they reacted to an autism diagnosis like stage four cancer
Because Bill is a monster doesn’t take away from the fact that Cliff is an incredible role model. I love this show and always will.
No. Cosby destroyed the character just like he destroyed those women he raped. Keep your blinders on. It is a lot easier to live like that.
How really? He's shown as condescending 24/7, we have enough of such people in real life, would be cool to have an actual supporting dad model.
@@melodi996 Cliff Huxtable was not condescending 24/7. You are exaggerating. He was very proud of all of his children when they made good decisions, and even supportive of them when they made bad decisions. He and Claire both continued to take care of Denise when she dropped out of college and kept quitting every job she got. They financed her trip to Africa during which she got married without telling them and then came home to them with a husband and a step daughter all whom Cliff and Claire both allowed to live with them. Cliff was supportive of Denise in her first year of being back in college she was working on a term paper and she forgot that she was supposed to volunteer that day to help out in Olivia's class. Cliff told her to finish her paper and he would stay there is her place. He did this even though he really wanted to go to an auction that day. Then there was Sondra wanting to go to Paris, while Cliff put up a bit of a fight he did let her go. Another time with Sondra is when she and Elvin where getting ready to have the the twins and they were living in a raggedy apartment. Cliff and Claire helped them get into a better apartment. Cliff and Claire also helped Sondra and Elvin out many times through the show when there car broke down or something went wrong in their apartment and they needed a place to stay. Then there was Theo with the Gordon Gartrelle Shirt. When Cliff realized that Theo was about to make a fool of himself in front of his date because of how awful the shirt Denise made looks he told Theo where to find the shirt that Cliff never returned to the store because he knew things would not go well with Denise making the shirt. Theo thanked him and ran right into the living room where is date saw the shirt. Cliff then tries to play it off like Theo took his shirt in order for Theo not to face further embarrassment but Theo just decided to come clean with his date about what happened. Then it turned out that his date liked the shirt. Cliff was supportive of Rudy playing football even when Claire initially wasn't. He was supportive of Vanessa after she had lost the science fair and wanted to money to do a better science project. He was supportive of Claire becoming a lawyer and making partner in her law firm. He was supportive of Elvin becoming a doctor (he bought him a stethoscope). There were more ways that Cliff was supportive in this show but I realize I have typed a lot in this message. I am sorry about this long message.
Most in Hollywood are monster. Even your favorite actor.
@@KingofgraceSARA So this is justification? ummmm, No!
Where was the help? There is no way that Cliff and Claire cleaned that huge house, where everything was in perfect order, and watched Rudy when she was little, and then Olivia, all by themselves. I wonder why this was never mentioned on the show.
Side thought: It genuinely blew my mind when you described the Cosby family as "middle class," because my brain was subconsciously registering them as upper-middle class or upper-class. When I think "middle class," I picture a much-less-well-off family with no copper pots, wall sconces, or grandfather clock. Says a lot about the current economic situation in which we all find ourselves, aye?
He was saying that the original idea for the sitcom had them as a middle class family, with Cliff as a limo driver and Clair as a plumber or repair person. That idea was scrapped.
At the time, "Middle class" on TV was what would be rich in real life, while "working class" on TV (Roseanne, Grace Under Fire) was what would be middle class in real life. TV was aspiration, not reflection.
If that's middle class then I don't even want to think what I was, lower class don't cut it
If a married couple, lawyer and doctor with 5 kids and I giant ass house, splurging on art
What would that make me? single child with single mother. My mom worked as a phone operator then went to school for nursing and worked at an old folks home for dementia patients
It’s worth mentioning the Simpsons were middle class as well, it’s wild to think that now, when owning a house with three kids and a dog on one income seems absolutely crazy by today’s standards.
@@QueenOfTheNorth65 Ok that makes much more sense, thank you. I was thinking, "He was an obstetrician and she was a lawyer! If they're middle class, then I'm straight-up destitute!"
I didn't grow up with The Cosby Show, but I did grow up watching the Nick Jr. cartoon Cosby had a hand in creating, Little Bill. I remember it being the first time I was ever exposed to black people in any capacity as a little white kid. Looking back, while I don't really remember anything about the show other than the fact that Little Bill had an imaginary friend called "Elephant", I do think it's cool that I was able to identify with a character like Little Bill as a five-year-old, even though we were different races.
I think it goes to show that racism is something that has to be taught and not something that's innate in all of us.
Exactly! I did grow up watching the Cosby show & I loved them all as if they were my family. Actually they reminded me of my uncle's family. (They were also very well off as opposed to the rest of the family) I remember being little & saying to my mother "don't they remind you of uncle Dick's family" and she's like "how?!" All incredulous & my father begins laughing & says "she's little. She is not seeing their color, she's seeing their lifestyle"
My uncle wouldve bought an 11,000 dollar painting lol
I remember exactly one scene from Little Bill where a character mentions that he eats hot dogs with peanut butter and it's haunted me ever since.
@@looney1023 😂🤣🤣🤣
I liked that episode of Little Bill where Bill wanted to be a "ring bear" at a wedding. That was so funny, it became the only Little Bill episode that I remembered long-term.
It wasn’t his imaginary friend who was named elephant, it was his pet hamster!
I think this was a VERY good, detailed summary of The Cosby Show and it's lasting impact on television viewers. Whereas, a lot of people tend to be unable to separate an artist from their work, I can STILL see this show as a Positive contribution to the television landscape, despite learning now about Cosby's personal evils. This show has always inspired people in positive ways. It broke down a ton of tv racial stereo-types. I have NO regrets for growing up watching this show like so many millions of others. Thanks for taking the time to put this summary together. Great job!
One of the best lines I ever heard, after Vanessa comes home from school she tells her parents that she is being bullied by these other girls, Clare asks her, what do they have against you? Vanessa replied, "Mom, they give me a hassle, and say I'm a Rich Girl." Cliff laughs aloud and replies... Haha Vanessa, your mother and I are Rich, you have Nothing!!!!! Lmao, great Show!
Yes this part was hilarious 😄
That was a stand-out moment for sure! 🤣
🤯🤪🤣 Cosby was at least funny in a way my ultra white parents and grandparents had to respect the man. They are not racist just got a distant upbringing away from the world of city life
😅
I hear variations on this one from many a modern African American comedian.
I know they mean well but... Eh... You and I and everyone else KNOWS... Those are rich kids. They DO have a life different than most adults could imagine.
It's... A disingenuous sentiment.
Oh god that scene with Cliff telling Theo how to behave when feeling rejected by a woman is so painful knowing what Cosby was actually doing.
@Darnell Henderson Probably more of a reference to the drugging and raping...
@@darnellhenderson3529 It's likely not as many women don't want to go to the police after being raped, many prefer to forget about it and move on. Second to that is the fact that if they can't explicitly prove that it was Cosby that drugged them, then any recount of the event could be dismissable in court. Drugging and raping people is something that is horribly easy to get away with and while I do thing it's possible that some of them are lying, it is just as likely that at least one of them is telling the truth.
@@darnellhenderson3529 Has hating women in the real world become too problematic that you've had to resort to venting your frustrations on the internet?
@@darnellhenderson3529 ...in 2005 Cosby himself testified that he had bought Quaaludes for the express use of using it on women for sex, but it was ruled inadmissible on appeal, because he admitted to this as part of a plea deal.
Your motivations in all of this are obvious, and I'd get therapy to address it if I were you, before it's too late...
@@comanchio1976 : I paid your mom her $50, stop harassing me!
Cliff Cooking With $1000 Worth of Le Creuset enamelled cast iron pots.
Is that a good thing??
Good eye!!!
@@Coffeeisnecessarynowpepper it is
@@s_mazey I buy my pots at Big Lpts
@@Coffeeisnecessarynowpepper the only reason I know about Le Creuset cookware is because my mom bought one a couple years ago. It’s pretty awesome, but it also works just as good as her knock off ones that didn’t cost an arm and a leg.
This show raised me and many others. Your breakdown of this show was greatly appreciated. Bill Cosby is legendary and infamous in the same breath.
The Cosby Show had some of the best dressed people on television. The knitwear is outstanding and one of the designers, New Zealander Lee Andersen still creates fabulous clothing today.
When my parents immigrated to the United States, they loved The Cosby Show. They looked up to The Huxtables as the ideal family and the idea that a people of color can have successful careers and make it this country was something that really reasonated with my Parents.
And thirty-something years before TCS, Americans would try to idealize the Nelsons (Ozzie and Harriet Nelson, a real-life TV couple) as the American family to aspire to be. Larry Elder, who recently lost to Gavin Newsome in California's gubernatorial race always looked up to the Nelsons as his own father fell far short of the ideal...
My Colombian parents feel the same way
this is an issue w/ representation-- should it be escapist or realistic? The fact of the matter is that people need both forms of media in their lives. but if you're underrepresented, you don't have your pick of representation that serves you, & you can't so easily move back and forth between the 2 types, meaning that the onus is placed on every individual piece of media that has representation to be everything. comfortable, sweet, stereotype shattering, realistic, pushing the envelope, calming. imo we need more different diverse shows, of all types, moods and quality levels.
The same thing is now happening with atypical
Yes! As a teen I remember just how much I wished there were teen shows about black girls that weren’t just about drugs or being stressed out. Even though that is some people’s reality, it was never mine. And even for the people whose it was, don’t they deserve an escape??
@@laurieawesomeness7221 Problem is those shows aren't made in typical Hollywood. If I want a Latino show, I would watch one that's made in Latin American country for example. African countries do make such Black shows, you just need to find Internationally. Thing is if you can get through the accents and cultural differences.
Yeah, I was thinking it is absolutely ridiculous for the presenter to act disappointed because this one show didn't "positively displace" all racism and negativity in the US. Of course it can't! It is a largely escapist and funny show with a few dramatic scenes in it. That is way too much for any one tv show to take on, no matter how popular. That's why we needed other shows. Why pick on this one? Will and Grace didn't solve all the LGBTQ issues, either. But that was not the job of a sitcom.
I watched this show as a child living in a very white community and family and it positively affected my personal ideas of who black people are and what they can accomplish. That's the point. I didn't need to know, at that young age, about all the violence and discrimination black people faced. I was too young for that. I needed to see black people being intelligent and successful on television just like white people were often portrayed. I needed to see equality so that when I got older and learned about discrimination I asked myself, "Why?
Why do people do this? The black people I've seen on television seem great, so it must be the racists that are stupid."
@@aadams1006 "I didn't need to know, at that young age, about all the violence and discrimination black people faced. I was too young for that. I needed to see black people being intelligent and successful on television just like white people were often portrayed." This is a nicely summed up response. The video however seems to be taking on a critical perspective as though the show not bringing up such themes made it ultimately unrelatable, or worse unhelpful. At least that seems to be the spirit of their commentary where they are casting their own personal suspicions on the role of personal responsibility in the first 1/3 of the video...
All of these sitcom retrospectives are amazing and thoughtful and thorough and some of the best content I’ve found on CZcams in a long time. Been binging because you have a great voice and perspective to hear!
I feel SO CALLED OUT by the whole "the Huxtable children don't feel real" thing because I would ABSOLUTELY have been Theo going "what my parents think is very important to me". And I would have been Vanessa going to my parents instead of us being caught. 😂
You’re a nerd
My sons (17 & 20) are and always were this way. They tell me everything, trust me and neither drink or smoke. And we weren't even middle class most of their childhood. It is just a question of trusting your kids so they learn to trust themselves and their parents.
Even our 15 years old foster daughter, which smoked and drank alcohol, when she moved into our place 2 years ago, stopped both, improved in school and attends therapy for the trauma she experienced when she lived at her moms place.
Of course this might not work for every family or kid, but I believe that trusting your kids and being honest with them is essential for them to grow up resilent and confident.
Cosby always felt as though if the perception of black america wasn't all stereotypes then maybe things could be better for them. The problem with that is the "maybe". He always rallied against comedians who used the "n" word which is one of the reasons why those allegations on him popped off. It was always an open secret that he did those things but the advent of social media made it come ahead and all it took was a random comedian to rant about it: Hannibal Buress. Apparently Cosby had done this before where he'd go to black comedians and chastise them for their bits and it rubbed Hannibal the wrong way enough for him to rant about it and because of social media's ability to bring people together you have the perfect powder keg to set off.
I don’t care if Hannibal ate people I am glad he outed Crosby
Eddie Murphy did this as part of his routine with "conversations" between him and Cosby and Ricard Pryor.
Dixon, D I love how Eddie made fun of Cosby in his SNL opening a couple years ago
You really should check out the Black Dynamite episode "Bill Cosby Ain't Himself." That's some hilariously damning criticism of him in cartoon form.
@@EclecticDD I remember that routine. Also remember Coby tried the same thing on Pryor.
dude my upcoming video references a couple of the things you mention here lol
Great minds think alike. Looking forward to your video!
hopefully it won't have any gross ideas about lisa bonet not being black because she's mixed, pal.
@@malum9478 I don't know if you're aware of T1J's content, but I can't see him doing that.
Love to see my favs interacting
T1J you are the bomb!!!
@@malum9478 wh-why would you assume that’s what it’s gonna be about?
So I only found your videos a week ago and I absolutely love them. They are perfect for long drives or when I'm working out or cleaning my apartment: A nice long video with a narrator who has a voice that is even keel (no screaming, no sudden whispering... you just keep the same soothing tones) on interesting subjects.
The hard work you put in really shows. This was thoughtful, engaging and informative. I learned a great deal, thank you!
My dad passed in 2013, he loved this show. It breaks my heart cause he’s not alive to know how it happened. What happened…it does break my heart cause we used to watch the show together.
I’m so sorry for your loss! Just be glad he didn’t find out Cosby raped
@@Coffeeisnecessarynowpepper lol that's the opposite of what she's saying. She wants her father to have known about Cosby. Or she worded that weirdly saying "breaking her heart he's not here to know what happened"
@@TheMysteryDriver why would you want to get more bad news before you die! Like My grandpa died on September 10 2001 I never thought “hmm if only grandpa could have seen the twins towers go down “ 😭
@@Coffeeisnecessarynowpepper well, she doesn't say she liked her father. Just that he's dead, she's upset he didn't live to see Cosby go down, they used to watch it together. Maybe she hated the show but they only had one TV so she could throw it in his face? I'm mostly joking because of the way she phrased it.
@@Coffeeisnecessarynowpepper also I laughed pretty hard at the Grandpa's twin towers thing. So many ideas ran through my head.
I don't think that not giving the kids drinking or drug problems themselves puts them in a bubble. It shows them being challenged in exactly the ways most people I knew were challenged. Lots of young kids aren't generally interested in drinking, smoking, etc., and pressure to take risks with their bodies they don't want to often overwhelm. I don't think it's fair or just to belittle the difficulty or importance of learning to set and keep boundaries. I find it's much more unrealistic to depict all young teens as little, hedonistic adults.
It's also probably because they wanted a positive portrayal of a black family since there weren't too many at the time.
Yeah in my case I didn’t swear and had no interest in drugs or alcohol in any way. Hell im 26 and I’ve only got a passing curiosity in any form of drug use, and I doubt anything will ever come of it, but I did see a lot of drug use around me as a teenager, and some of it went fine and some of it ruined people’s lives...
Seems more like they were supposed to be role models more so than relatable characters. Which again, is not bad at all.
@@Nagasakevideo I know people who will tell you that television raised them instead of their actual family because their family was abusive. For some, parents like June and Ward Cleaver or Uncle Phil and Aunt Viv are the closest to good role models they'll have. I think there's a place for "Realistic" TV to represent you and "Idealized" TV that's meant to teach you.
i remember one episode of vanessa going to baltimore without her parents permission and coming back drunk and getting in trouble.. not exactly a drug or drinking “problem” perse but..
I understood the comedy in the Cosby show, especially since my own father acted like Cliff Huxtable A LOT, long before the show ever ever aired. Most importantly, he didn’t understand or like the music we listened to because he was a devoted jazz and blues aficionado, and his three children loved 70s and 80s R&B and funk. It’s a pretty common generational divide, but Dad expected his three children to at least respect the musical roots which our favorite singers and musicians provided by the previous generations by listening to his albums. We listened, but only out of respect for him. Since he would get so caught up in the music and sang or hummed off key, we looked at each other and tried with a lot of difficulty not to laugh. Dad loved the Cosby Show too, but he didn’t understand why we laughed so loud at the things Cliff Huxtable said and did. And we never explained why, either. 😂😂😂
The goofy way Cosby was with his kids was how my dad was with us. I rewatch and rewatch the episodes. I also rewatch Rosanne. These were my generation. I learned social and relationship cues from these story lines. I'm better for these sitcoms and they should be released to the public. The character is not the man. The other cast members shouldn't be ashamed or miss out on royalties because Cosby had problems. Long live must see tv...
There's a somewhat chilling clip from the early 2000s Howard Stern show, with guest Janice Dickenson promoting her book, stating that Cosby was a very bad man, but that the publishers/lawyers would not let her tell her story, as she presumably did with other show business creeps in her tell-all
The early 2000's. If I recall correctly, Cosby ramped up his "take responsibility for yourself" period.
I've been examining this whole situation with Bill Cosby lately and there seems to be more than meets the eye. More on this later.
@Cali Meldron Lying about him being a rapist ? No that is a firmly established fact
@Cali Meldron any example or context or just a blanket statement? If we want to get philosophical I could just posit that she was lying about being a liar
I actually loved that Theo (who was always sort of picked on by his family for "not trying") got to become the person these kids he taught could look up to... As someone about his age, who is also dyslexic, I always looked up to this character. Loved Theo like he was my own brother. I am endlessly proud of Malcolm Jamal Warner for all the great roles he's had since then (one of his best was on American Horror Story)
This was the same for me although I had ADHD, at that time ADD.
Theo became the sort of teacher that he had needed, but didn't have due to his dyslexia going undetected. Somebody who understood how and where the kids were struggling, and could guide them in the best way.
And, he did it in such a down to earth way that didn't demean or insult their intelligence. Not like the basic skills teachers I had (I struggled in math for many years.)
One of the teachers always spoke to us in a very slow and drawn out voice that was about two octaves higher than that which she used with everybody else. For instance, when I forgot a pencil one morning just after the holidays, she told me to make a "New Year's reeeezolooooooshuuuuun" to remember to bring it from them on. I was in the fourth grade, and I remember thinking, "I know what 'resolution' means, and if you said it in a normal voice, I would STILL know." But, I didn't say that -- I just told her that my mother said that resolutions were stupid, so, I wouldn't make one.
But, she was the same simpleton who once held up a flash card, and said, "Can you tell me what nine times four is ... or, if it's easier, foooouuur tiiiiiiimes niiiiiiiiiine." So, I never felt bad about being a brat to her (she was the only teacher I ever acted up for, by the way!)
Give me a teacher like Theo, who respects and does not talk down to his students, any day!
I actually appreciated that they didn't harp on the racism situation all the time, it's painful, you don't want the worst things that happen to you to be thrown in your face all the time or actually at all, a lot of people, such as myself, have stress or pain in their lives they don't want to cause more pain by constantly watching things on racism, I hate the holocaust, slavery, racism of any kind, this was a look at more positive, this was a way to up build people, there's plenty of negative, I like to focus on the positive, I hope everyone is doing well, stay safe 🙏💞🙏
indeed
I still love this show. And really, there was a while when society didn't talk about race all the time. I believe it's lost on this channel that that could happen.
I have a question for you, a serious question...
Did you think that The Cosby Show was a true representation of an everyday, average Black American Family?
I watched that show from beginning to end, & I always wanted to spit nails at the fact there were virtually no problems facing the actual Huxtable Family members; problems only occurred in the families which surrounded theirs. I know of no family which is problem-free; there is always at least one member who is a bane to the family. So bottom line, I thought the Huxtables were some 'utopian' family unit that didn't exist & never would.
+@@TheHummingbirder there actually was never a time when society didn't talk about race all the time. At least not in the US. Before, it was about how superior white people were, so maybe that seems normal to you.
@@kindauncool There is a difference between talking about it and talking about it all the time. Talking about it invites healthy discussion. Talking about it all the time breeds impatience and contempt. I'm good with talking about it, but not when the conversation starts including contempt. Or anger. These things don't help. I really don't recall a conversation about white people being superior. I know it happened, but not during my lifetime.
This is the most thorough analysis of The Cosby Show & it's legacy I've ever seen. Incredible job. Excellent video essay!
I loved this show as a kid. It reminded me a lot of my family (given that I was raised in an upper middle class household and ~1/3 of my family is black). My dad used to walk around in "Cosby" sweaters, and a lot of the art around our house looked like the stuff on the show. The only actor I ever wrote a letter to was Bill Cosby, thanking him for being such a positive role model on TV. Learning about his transgressions against women was absolutely heartbreaking. To trust how warm and loving someone can appear, and then to have that image shattered? It's a sad thing.
I'm sorry you looked up to him, only for that image to be shattered :(
I read years and years ago what a douchebag Tempest Bledsoe and Lisa Bonet considered Cosby. They thought he was cold and manipulative behind his smiling face like the salesman he was in TV commercials.
learning the depths of depravity of humans we respected is a bitter pill to swallow. And it will always happen. but -life is suffering, said Buddha.
Exactly as everybody else, you know absolutely nothing about his "transgressions against women" -- we don't even know if something _like_ that even happened! The legal proceeding was a mess and Cosby was freed from imprisonment because of that, RIGHT? And is it unheard of that people are lying like pigs in the court? _Of course NOT!_ Use your brains, folks, instead of your hate and "feelings".
If Cosby were truly guilty they would not have had to deny his due process in order to put him behind bars
You only have to look at Cliff and Claire's clothing, the furs and designer sweaters and dresses to know they are not "upper middle class" at all. They're upper class. You never hear them speak of mortgages, student loans, or even credit cards. Granted this was made during the greedy 1980s that sowed rather seeds of the financial crisis of the 2000s, but these people never felt a twinge.
Upper class is titled/gentry. They were neither. They could be just as rich and be lower/working class/new money. They were middle class, and I doubt even upper middle
Uh... Bill was an OB GYN , no?
Pretty sure *that's filthy rich*.
Especially with an *attorney for a wife*.
Oops.
@Always Watching OBGYNs in the 90s, nationwide, averaged around $207k (in the 90s, not 2016) a year and I am willing to bet that NY OBGYNs made more than that so Heathcliff alone is upper class. Quick check shows that the average income in the richest fifth of the population in New York was around $154k-$170k IN THE 90s, so if he was even a decent OBGYN he was way above that and easily upper class. Now Claire's salary would be harder to pin down but I'm guessing it would be close to Cliff's or even higher so that family was probably pulling in around or over $400k a year, they were far and away upper class.
@@mildredhighcock7333 Sorry bro, we don't have gentry and titles in the US, classes here is about money and they were very upper class.
Even the poor people in sitcoms wear unrealistically fancy clothes. The buying of the expensive painting and having a really large family is what made it obvious that they were rich.
The shape of the Huxtables was not just a goal people wanted to achieve it was also a window into how some black families were living. Not every black family identified with Good Times or Sanford and Son. Maybe a generation prior but plenty of black people were educated and legit moved up. While attending University couples formed and that union brought a upper class population of black people and black families. Well educated and having the knowledge and money give their kids and step up.
I grew up in the 90s, not the 80s, but watched The Cosby Show still. Growing up watching this I think definitely attributed to me always seeing black families as exactly like any other family. The same way watching Will and Grace contributed to me always seeing LGBT+ relationships as normal and like everyone else.
"A Different World" was the shit!!! That show inspired an entire generation of black teens to want to go to college, lol.
And every girl ever, had a crush on Dwayne Wayne lol
And that's why we have never seen another show like it on tv since it ended in 1993. TPTB seemingly don't want tv shows that inspire young African Americans onto higher education.
@@IceManLikeGervin I wish someone would just give Debbie Allen millions of dollars & an hour of primetime tv. She'd have a modern day different world /fame on tv in a heartbeat
Probably the best thing Cosby did for the world. His anti-drug stance is destroyed by his use of Qualudes against those women, and he never did anything too great to fight racism or classism (at least, not as much as he could have), but at least that intiative of his did some good.
It’s been over a decade since a black person was elected President.
8:30 theres something bittersweet about these clips you include that are still genuinely hilarious. Especially as this video will likely be the first time in years I've seen any Cosby Show.
One of the best video documentaries about a delightful much-loved 80s TV show! I especially loved the wrap-up at the end where you talk about seeing the difference between Bill Cosby and Cliff Huxtable and making your own decision as to how you feel. Thank you for producing such great content on your channel.
I would love to see a retrospective on Night Court! I recently found your channel and I love these video essays 😊
Under ZERO circumstances should a 13 year old be considered a “party girl/boy.”. That was the key take away in this that made me sick to my stomach.
I dunno, when I was 13 I went to plenty of child friendly discoes, of course I know that's not the kind of party being referred to...
@@megaflamer I went to school dances, myself, but as far as drinking parties were concerned, I wasn't interested in them.
At 13 I was smoking weed and drinking Codeine syrup
The Cosby's were what we called "upper middle class" in the 80's.
Very lovely family,hi how are you doing!
Aka working class, with a high-end income. But still working class. They got their money by working, rather than by owning.
Aspirational enough to be perceived within reach, but not so wealthy as to be unrelatable
@@DavidLindes Bruh a family like that definitely owned. Property, stocks, art as investments. Sure they had high income but they definitely increased their wealth through capital.
@@king_big_pp sure. And in that sense, the line does get blurry. But it seems to me Claire paid $11k for a painting not (primarily, anyway) as an investment piece, but as art for the walls. Until they’re paying for most things out of investment income, it seems to me, or to put it a different way, as long as they’re working a job for a boss, they’re still technically working class. IMHO; YMMV. 🤷♀️
only half an hour in and wow...I didn't know how much I needed this video. I absolutely loved the cosby show as a kid. Even now, watching the clips you are showing, the show's charm shines through and you can see how great they did writing a family that truly loves each other...it is so jarring knowing what actually happened.
Been seeing this in my suggestions for a while. Finally watched and so glad i did. Perfect timing as im watching the show through. Awesome work 🙏🏾
Can you do a retrospective on everybody hates Chris. Also thanks for another great video
This would be sick
Even though I’m not black or from New York I always felt that everybody hates Chris was a bit more relatable then Malcolm in the middle. I’d definitely watch a Jose retrospective on it
I still refuse to watch that show because as someone named Chris people LOVED saying the show name and then laughing at you
I really think Everybody Hates Chris is super underrated and is one of the best representations of black culture, at least in the 80s.
Everybody hated Chris has a major cult following here in Brazil. Whites, blacks, mixed raced people everybody loves that show here and is very relatable even in 2021. Its been on tv every day since It premiered.
It is so heartbreaking that he is evil. I used to think his fall would just be his outdated ideas on how to help people in civil rights, telling kids to pull their pants up. I hadn't expected him to be a monster... until it became VERY clear he was.
I'm trying so hard not to make a correlation between people with conservative points of view and people who do monstrously evil things..... but I can't help it. I just see it way too often.
@@cumincalamity9867 say it louder for the people in the back. I believe the difference is the conservative side tries to hide their transgressions as they speak against the very transgressions they commit, therefore, appearing hypocritical.
Yes! I was born in 1981 and very much grew up with The Cosby Show. My best friend's mom had Cosby comedy shows on cassette(tapes!😂) that we listened to on the way to school. To this day when chocolate cake is mentioned, I say "Chocolate cake! NUTRITION!" After the bit in "Himself".
Countless moments from this show are deeply embedded in my memories and my whole life I saw Bill Cosby as this brilliant, kind man.
And now, as a survivor of sexual assault, I have struggled with the horrendous things he's done. I know the argument of "separate the art from the artist", but in many cases, this one in particular, the transgressions are so vile, and SO MANY, and SO against everything his artfully constructed public persona stands for...... I simply cannot.
And I'm truly at a loss as to how to view him now.
Before it was discovered that Bill likes to drug women and didn’t see anything wrong with it, I just thought he was in “get off my lawn” mode as he complained a ton about swearing and shut
@@andu1854 right? For a while he just seemed out of touch, being older and having been ultra wealthy and insulated from real life struggles for decades- it was really easy to kinda brush it off with "y'all gotta remember he's from an older generation". But now........ 🤐🤐
This is amazing and very well done. I appreciate the amount of effort, hard work and research you obviously put into this.
thank you for your passion in making these videos. you do each series such justice man. cheers for that.
I think things would be very different if Fresh Prince didn't also exist.
Not with his stain on it, with our collective ideas on its importance in TV history. They weren't the same show or same impact (or even same time really) but people who are younger like me can easily replace it in our consciousness with Fresh Prince instead.
This is true, only Fresh Prince wasn’t the top show on television ratings wise, and The Cosby Show was and a decade earlier. I am a little older than you, and often wonder if people my age’s relatively enlightened opinions on race (compared to white people older than me and the weird internet Nazis in the younger millennial/zoomer population) is that when we came into the world the number 1 show was the Cosby show and Michael Jackson was the number 1 pop star. A lot of my radical politics today are directly the result of realizing the difference between the post-civil rights all prejudice has been conquered message of my formative years, and the reality of what America really is like. To make matters worse Bill Cosby and Michael Jackson were both monsters in their personal lives which has made revisiting their cultural legacy a moral compromised endeavor. It’s a terrible situation. Agreed that the Fresh Prince rules though, sorry for rambling underneath your comment
@@joegibbskins don't be sorry, it's an interesting confirmation from someone older than me :)
@@joegibbskins Michael Jackson was a monster? Oh I forgot you're a radical far left fan. 🤣
@@pferreira1983 I mean I still listen to a to a ton of Michael Jackson music and Jackson 5 music , but there’s credible allegations of child abuse spanning several decades, so the image of him as a celebrated entertainer who broke racial barriers is complicated by the notion that he may have been destroying childhoods the entire time.
@@joegibbskins Credible allegations... 😒
I think there's worth in having some depictions of oppressed groups on TV not dealing with their oppression. I can't speak for black people, but I am part of the LGBTQ community, and I don't want all representation to be about my problems. I have enough of that in real life.
However, this show may not be the best example.
I feel like it's all about balance. Like, not every queer story needs to be about coming out, but some kids still need those stories, too. There's gonna be conflict when you're in minority group, but you also can still be happy and have friends and do things that don't have anything to do with identity. I feel like fantasy is a lot better equipped for pure escapism because there doesn't have to be the same discrimination that exists in our world. But if I'm watching a character that represents me, I want some grit and realism to ground it. And I also really want some better bi/pan representation ffs
I'd assume most people agree, it's just that when you're up to 200 episodes, it just becomes straight up bizarre to ignore the issues. Take QAF as a counter example - most of it isn't about bigotry; the characters have independent lives that don't revolve around oppression, but as queer people existing in the world, they do face it/are affected by it. A show like QAF where homophobia was just something that noone ever saw or mentioned beyond 'oh, remember Stonewall?' would feel false, not reassuring. I don't think anyone would suggest the Cosby Show should have been the 'lets do nothing but talk about issues exclusive to race' show.
It's a fine line to walk, that's for sure, though I'm glad other shows like Fresh Prince eventually found a way to at least dip their toes in it every now and then. If a show was made like they do slavery movies, I don't think any network would have even greenlit it, but on the other hand I would like for these stories to be told by and for minority groups instead of just aiming to bring in the big audiences, which almost always means not making straight white people _too_ uncomfortable.
@@harpoonlobotomy1116 I think there's room for everything. I won't speaknfor black people, but for queer people like me, yeah, I want my serious stuff and my dramedy stuff... but I also really want pure escapism with some representation too. I want to ignore it sometimes. I want a break.
@@MacGuffinExMachina Yeah of course.
Reguardless of the scandal, this show was my childhood.
Bill Cosby in general was...picture pages, Fat Albert, and jello pudding pops would have covered plenty of territory even before this show. He inspired thousands of kids to go into teaching, and showed millions more that they can handle college. Wish all the rest never happened, because otherwise we would have probably put the man on a coin one day. And I was a white kid in the midwest feeling all this about him. I understand anyone feeling denial about the whole awful thing, though it doesn't change it.
I know. I wish what we've discovered since hadn't happened, because I wish I could share the show with my own kids. It was full of teachable moments and otherwise just lots of fun. That all came to a screeching halt, didn't it. 🙁
I have the complete series on dvd and watch it with my children.
Hello! Cosby family member here! Just wanted to say thank you for this video. It has been very hard for us as a family. I am not going to elaborate further (for obvious reasons), but your video was really insightful and said a lot of things our family has been trying to say ourselves amidst from all of this. Once again, thank you.
I don't think black shows should be expected to have to show every part of the black experience. If they want to make an aspirational show that shows an idealized black family, that's fine. After all, nobody pigeonholes white shows into having to be completely realistic and all-encompassing.
Exactly. Thank you.
Except, that the show took the time to criticize other black people for not living up to Cosby's model minority standards, gave them a passing chance to voice the arguments that critics would have of Cliff's perspectives, then dismiss them as glib and silly and making excuses. Cosby claimed to live the ethics that he preached in his art whereas in real life he was completely the opposite. Knowing what a sanctimonious hypocrite he was, blaming others for their own oppression, while using his own position as a person who beat the odds as a weapon to abuse people.
I agree, if you look at similar sitcoms with white casts at the time, the financial status was similarly unrealistic, the house in Full House sold recently for something like 3 million, even accounting for inflation, 3 kids supported by a musician, a comedian and whatever the dad did wouldn't even come close to buying that house, even in the 90's, and Family Ties was the same way, and all the generic sit coms had these families with huge houses and vacations and 9-5 jobs and nannies when most families don't live like that, then or now.
@@MsAngrybutterfly Well, Cliff and Claire could have realistically afforded their home. The parents on Family Ties were architects so they probably could too. Danny Tanner was a television news host so he could have probably afforded his house in the late 80s. Housing prices in San Francisco were not like they were now at that time.
Well, yes, but also no. Thing is, this was _the_ black sitcom. When the only black sitcom might as well be white, there's no real representation. So, I think it's more than fair to be disappointed with the people who were in the best position to give that representation and probably marketed around it. And that, as the video points out, is how most black people felt about it: happy there was something, disappointed it wasn't more.
Also, there's no excuse for the generally poor handling of race and class issues when they did come up.
Phylicia Rashad made the show for me. She was so incredibly good every time!
I remember watching nba inside stuff on Saturday mornings and looking at Ahmad Rashad like, this guy's living the dream. Lol
Keep this great work up, really detailed and interesting content, appreciate you as a creator
Really good and thorough video - I also like that you updated it with up-to-date facts about the case, etc.
0:32 "...featured a black, middle class family." - Dude, he was an obstetrician, his wife was a lawyer and they lived in a brownstone in New York with five children. I think they we're a touch above "middle class".
....and I just realized this point has already been made. So please disregard.
I remember that episode where Claire freaks out because her teenage daughter is wearing a bra and might grow up to be a singer.
It gave me the impression that older generations were soft, sheltered people who didn't know what real problems were.
And it still does.
That's an incredible leap in logic. When I see a child where trainers i fear for them becoming sprinters.
@@TheSquareheadgamer legit fear. Life's a marathon not a sprint. Wear comfy shows with as little of a heel drop as possible.
Just confirms to me a lot of the show was a reflection of Black conservatism...
@@TheSquareheadgamer My sister was like that as she used to run on her tip toes like a hopping rabbit plus was skinny so at a certain point my mom could no longer catch her lol.
I thought all girls wore bras?
This documentary is a huge project. It's very valuable to those of us trying to sort out feelings about the show and Bill Cosby. Thank you.
The issue with Dabness is circumstantial. Cliff was tired of his family coming back to the ALREADY FULL house so when he found out that his potential son in law had his OWN house, he sparked up.
Note, Martin had a great job but Cliff didn't open up to him until they spent a day with each other, addressed the elephant in the room and recreated the wedding.
And Cliff and Claire decided to pay for Pams collage.
Favorite Pam episode was when she tried to help elderly people go to the grocery store and the finale still makes me cry! God...i hate when shows are compared to modern standards, years after the fact. But I'm glad this video acknowledges the unfair burden placed on the show. It's like blacks are so required to be SUPER EVERYTHING.
If you're looking for another sitcom to analyze, might I suggest That 70s Show?
There's a ton of stuff to talk about, for example how the show depicts:
- changing gender roles and relationships between men and women (Kitty taking over as the principal breadwinner, Midge's dissatisfaction with being a housewife, Eric and Donna negotiating masculinity and femininity in their relationship)
- masculinity and femininity in general
- the class divides between the teens' families (from the upper middle class Burkharts and Pinciottis to the poor Hydes) and the Formans' economic downward mobility
- Fez
- the social attitudes and casual bigotry (or lack thereof) of 70s characters written for 00s TV
- the 1970s (politically, socially, pop culturally, etc)
I think it could make for a great retrospective!
And the circles! You can't forget the circles! :)
One thing that was you never see is downward mobility which you see you in this show
I'd be down for that video.
I am white, I grew up watching Cosby, Jefferson’s, Family Matters, Fresh Prince, Bernie Mac along side majority white casted shows. I didn’t see black families as any different from white families because I related to them in so many ways. It just shows how much media can give you the ability to experience other perspectives and connect to people of different backgrounds.
I appreciate that in depth analysis. You address highs and lows, challenges and mastery are addressed, revealed, discussed.
The Cosby Show's brought us culture, consciousness, Black people self love, value and growth.
Now, nothing is perfect and yes siblings can be different shades (living proof here!). It did do a lot of good.
We had many, too many shows and series about issues, pain of the black community and individual... we needed that Light and Inspiration.
Inspiration is what carries you to the next level even in the darkest times, we know those realities and I personally did not want to rlwatch what I could see opening my window, ealinking down the streets, what pierced my heart on a daily basis. Kids, people need inspiration to grow, to soar, to rise!
This was really a great essay. I really enjoyed watching it and it gave me a lot to think about. Thanks.
I found Claire, Theo and Rudy more interesting as characters than I ever did Bill.
I agree
@@agsweet708 I kind of felt bill was just there. The real heart of the show was Claire and the kids.
Theo was my fav
Them intros were fire though. Every season a new remix
You did an amazing job with this, very informative. Great job 👏👍🏻
I can't stop watching these retrospective it's so addictive
Claire was an inspirational character for me as a child and I’m not even black
I wanted to be a lawyer just like her and be all calm but caring with my kids.
Who says you may only be inspired by role models of your sex, age, economic class, nationality and oh yeah, skin color and hair type? Everybody on that show was perfect in a perfect Hollywood studio world.
@@MsTimelady71 now THAT was the part that's unrealistic lolol
There was an episode of Blossom where she gets her first period and Claire Huxtable explains menstruation while frosting a cake. Blossom was dreaming about her because her real mom ran off to become a singer.
@@cazprescott9 I liked blossom
This was decent. One of the differences between American sitcoms (and tv generally) and UK TV series is that Americans seem to expect morality teaching, sanctimony and shmaltz, and theres a lot less of that in the UK, esp in comedy series. When you dont expect sitcoms to be doing that you dont see it as a problem when they dont. It's okay to just go for the laughs, or to depict life as real and messy and not morally straight forward.
The Cosby Show was ultimately a win imo. There _were_ black professionals in the 70's and 80's, who built middle class lives, they just werent prevalent. As a white child growing up in the UK, The Cosby Show cut across all the stereotypes of black Americans that i was used to seeing, and such depictions were a positive step culturally. I understand why some people feel it missed an opportunity to some degree, but not every show needs to be tackling hard social issues all the time, and it did evolve to some degree over the many seasons.
You’re right, those people do exist and are a good template for life. They avoided drama and it paid off.
I mean there's not tackling issues all the time and there's rarely to never tackling one specific relevant issue while taclking many others more regularly. If it never did anything it would be less egregious
I wouldn't call them middle class but I would say it appeals to the myth that being able to send kids to ivy league colleges and drop 11k on a painting is middle life.
@@ShelledHandle I think they should be judged by what their aims were. The creators made judgements about where they could push the audience at that time. It was never trying to be gritty, daring and dark, and those kinds of comedies have their place. It became a positive cultural influence that audiences of different racial backgrounds enjoyed. It was highly popular with black Americans, the vast majority of whom were not living that lifestyle, and people to this day remember it with great affection.
@@onepartyroule I think it should be judged pretty much any way people want to judge it, as long as the way people are coming at it is made clear and understood.
I'm saying this as a black person who did love the show. They chose what they wanted to discuss in the show and it's perfectly fine that they did, and the impact of that has both positive and negative effects. I dont think its particularly helpful to acknowledge the good the show did from its approach but then say the same approach means we cant acknowledge the ways it may have fallen short.
I'm a total white girl, but I grew up with Bill Cosby and always felt like he was my TV Dad. He reminded me of my step father so much. I loved this show. I will always feel...I don't even know what. I guess I miss what I thought this man was.
I’m 44 and the Cosby Show was a daily after-school watch for me for many years. I find it difficult to reconcile the person I perceived Cosby to be and who he was in his life…because, like most people, I have to assume that anyone who is that funny, charming, personable and successful absolutely cannot be a total monster, right? Then again, we have similar testimony from many, many women, over decades of time.
Amazing work! Wonderfully in-depth and ultimately: very bittersweet
Bill Cosby did absolute jack shit to those lying scum. Everyone who says that he's guilty doesn't know a goddamn thing about what happened. Dru Story News has numerous videos documenting the targeted effort to take down Bill Cosby. No doubt about it.
@@EnergonCubed he literally admitted to doing it under oath in return for not facing charges.
Looking through that guy's videos he's clearly an unhinged conspiracy theorist with a particular focus on Cosby as a culture war issue, along with gnashing his teeth about water and vaccines. I wouldn't be surprised if you were an alt if his tbh, his videos don't seem very popular.
@@NAFEDUDE : WRONG!
Cosby said he shared his Qualudes w women who REQUESTED them in the 70's.
@@NAFEDUDE : I've seen them lower his view counts.
Yes and he stalked, druged, raped and abused women his intire career! He was able to do it for many reasons the fact woman are deemed second class, women grow up being told they are not good enough, smart enough or pretty enough. Prime breading for abuse. This is endemic because men are told they are faster, smarter, and handsom. The more powerful a man is the more damage he creates, the more money he has the more he gets away with it, over and over again!!!
Cosby got away with it for so long because people assited him pretended they did not know or could not say anything out of fear...he was a very powerful man. I am sure many men helped him. Ladies if somthing happens to you that makes you feel less than tell someone, you are not alone. Men STOP the abuse!!!!!!
It feels weird watching The Cosby Show because he’s there front and center but luckily, A Different World dodges that bullet because despite it being a spin-off, it gradually becomes untethered to the flagship show and that’s why it’ll come out clean as the years go on and I’m glad about that.
Easy. Enjoy the show and appreciate the art the cast created on screen. The Huxtables were a great fictional family. Lots of memorable moments were created.
This made me miss Cosby Show reruns. I remember liking the character Clair the best.