Why Caesar's Legion & the Brotherhood of Steel Should Have Been Allies
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- čas přidán 8. 10. 2021
- Caesar’s Legion and Brotherhood of Steel are two factions within the Fallout Universe who could not be any more different. Yet both groups are united by the idea that sophisticated technology has no place in the Wasteland. Cut content reveals that an alliance between these two groups was once considered - the analysis of which will the focus of this video.
Ave True to Caesar:
What’s happened to Caesar’s Legion?
• What's happened to Cae...
Caesar’s Legions Long Term Goals
• Caesar's Legions Long ...
Caesar’s Legion Invasion of the NCR
• Could Caesar's Legion ... - Hry
The Legion understands the importance of staying hydrated in a post-apocalyptic wasteland.
Always makes me laugh when a decanus takes a sip from a nuka-cola
They also wear suitable clothing for the climate they are in
*"You take a sip from your trusty Vault 13 canteen"*
I'm impressed that their members can even drink through their face wrap, that takes serious dedication!
@@Reishadowen they suck it
I think people really exaggerate the legion's stance on technology all you need to do is look at those hit squads and also an energy weapons deal with the van graffes
Exactly. What Caesar really believes is that mankind should not be reliant upon or enslaved to technology. That a true is trained to make use of anything in his surroundings as a weapon.
@Andrew Ryan Stimpak are still produced though
@Andrew Ryan Didnt followers of the apocalypse research alternatives of it? (it yields no result, though. But as Arcade gannon say thats because there are no alternative method that is possible, implying production does happen, with more rare ingredients that are expensive enough to not easily used for charity program like followers usually do) And that there are many medical sector already start selling stuff? Heck, we even have drug runners like great khan and Contreras. Even Great khans can also create medicine too when you pass the science check.
@Andrew Ryan hm, im not sure. I never heard of there is no production of actual stimpaks.Creating drugs are not really hard if there is knowledge of it, and im sure there are a lot. I dont see anywhere regarding the stimpak being only pre - war items. Rather, the production already starts. And the wiki says that it can be produced by chemists.
Gannon didnt say "real" stimpaks. Just stimpaks. The one that usually used, have a some rare ingredients that makes it somewhat expensive. Which is why follower research alternative of it, though yields no result yet.
Is there any NPC that state about no Stimpak production that match pre-war? Or at least the developer said it themselves?
You think the old world created a super drug from nothing? Most likely plants broken down and added with other Chems. Sounds like a super stimpack to me.
Brotherhood T51 power armor but with Legion aesthetic and plumage would look freaking cool. Caesar would essentially have WH40K Space Marines on call
"Stop, i can be only so erect."
Absolute unit
I wish there was a model of this armor equal to the BoS but without the faction, that one painted green I think is very ugly
There’s a mod for FNV call Power to the Bull that adds 4 Legion power armors, including Legion T-51
If we had to instead envision something close to what the NCR did, immagine the Legion using just the servo-joints to archive high speed, resilence and essentialy infinite marching.
I think it's worth noting that Caesar lets the Enclave Remnants leave because of the high costs to his men and the low reward of defeating the Enclave Remnants. I believe Caesar would likely use this same logic when dealing with the Brotherhood. Additionally, the BOS-NCR war makes this a fantastic opportunity.
Something tells me the successor isn’t that smart
Caesar is afraid of what the remnants might do to him if he persues them. Smart, we've got a article 5 of nato style ideology.
@Andrew Ryan and for a group that only uses knives and small firearms, I'd vigorously shit myself too if I saw a squad of troopers.
@Andrew Ryan when has the legion fought the brotherhood? I thought Caesar salad sent the courier to blow them up.
@Andrew Ryan sorry I didn't see your first comment, we just call in an orbital strike on those fuckers. Giant sattalite is a silo that fires 30ft. tall rods down from orbit and completely obliterates their bunkers.
*Basically Caesar says:* "show me how good you are fighting without technology first then you can be rewarded with it to become a better fighter"
*And the BoS look on and say:* "you know what? I can respect that"
Paladin Star crosses the country to slap Lanius…
Also Caesar and his Legion seem like the type to hate Nukes.
Especially Lanius, literally cowards way to fight.
And Caesar wants you to blow up Securitrons, literally proving himself to be less tech hungry then NCR
Caesar is the son of Mars in legion mythology, the brotherhood could easily be incorporated as priests of Vulcan, God of the forge (machines) and fire (lasers).
Ceaser also bases most of what he does off of Rome, and they certainly made concessions and synchronised faiths to take new groups that would otherwise put up resistance. His ideology of breaking tribes and uniting them under a single banner doesn't mean he can't incorporate their skills, as shown by the dogs that are trained by one of the tribes ceaser took hold of, or the fumentari who use unorthodox methods and have access to tools and positions the rank and file don't.
isn't Mars the Roman god of war ?
@@cyb0rgtitan278 that’s what he means. Since Caesar glorifies Mars the most I’m assuming he’s the head of the pantheon, and being the son of mars means he’s a demigod/prophet. He can instate the brotherhood as Priests of Vulcan like the guy above said, like he did with the dog guys.
Ave true to Caesar
Priests of Vulcan sounds FIRAH 🔥
Don’t forget that the mysterious client the Van Graffs start a deal with is the Legion. That might be a problem for the Brotherhood
yes but Van graff didnt want to trade with Caesar legion and backstab them instead.
Still, we know Legion probably also get supplied with a lot of other traders. Caesar doesnt seem to detest guns either, considering his rise of power is because he have knowledge on how to operate guns and teach the tribals that is on his side. Which give them huge advantage. It would be weird for Caesar to detest marksmanship, but rather i think he just hate the idea to rely on guns first then use unarmed. But rather master unarmed/melee first, and then learn marksmanship.
Not really humans acting hypocritical is standard across history. There's no real reason the BOS wouldn't also be. Anything contrary to thier ideolgy can easily be ignored.
There’s always the possibility that they were attempting to purchase this high tech weaponry just to keep it out of anyone else’s hands…
@@____________838 I never thought of that but it does actually make sense...
Legion most likely buying those guns to further arm the fiends
Lost my shit when the frog said “Ave!” lol
Not gonna lie I wasn’t expecting a tarantula, frog mutualism example to be used. It’s one of my absolute favorite forms of mutualism as a keeper of tarantulas myself.
This video was made for you.
@@yaboiii6562 bless no wonder I enjoyed it so much then! I thought it was an interesting break down :)
Legion = imperium of mankind
Brotherhood= Mars mechanicus
That’s how I would see such an arrangement, both sides leaving each other alone but helping out of self interest.
Exactly
The Legion are just a primitive version of the Blood Pact
The perfect alliance doesn't exi-
Two factions who used history's symbols and customs to define a new way of life in the wasteland teaming up? Should've seen that coming.
Real recognise real
Isn't that literally every fucking faction to ever exist in fallout
That’s literally just every faction
@@tmaxgo6696 Just because history has done everything all ready, doesn't mean some factions are more historically accurate than others.
They should have made it so that McNamara would favour joining the NCR and Hardin would favour Legion, while both would be capable of not joining any alliance and them being destroyed is also an option. Then they would retake Helios One at the end if they sided with the Legion and expand. Not sure what the major benefit of them siding with NCR could be. Convincing House would be cool but even more unbelievable than them siding with the Legion
As in history and in game, Caesar’s ego was his biggest asset and his biggest detriment.
I heard they were both red squares too
Arguably it had to happen if Caesar stayed in power Augustus wouldn’t have gone sicko mode.
@@taxult and we all wept when that little red square died
@@nickathanas1898 :(
@@taxult turns out Edward Sallow didn’t actually read any books, he just binged Historia Civilis videos on holotapes.
Would love to see a realistic representation of a power armored BOS soldier fighting off a bunch of melee Legion. The legionaries desperately trying to get a blade in a small crevice or opening while the BOS member is full adrenaline using his super strength to crush and break them but, they outnumber him. Would be like real history when a Knight in steel and chain mail would fight tribals.
@LowTierFallout you are correct, the Legion does use Super Sledges and Thermic Lances which is probably because of the NCR using salvaged Power Armor.
Except that Legion prefers melee, not uses it exclusively. They do use explosives and you can find some heavy duty long range equipment in the Legion supply cache and quite a few of their NPCs are coded to have guns, in some cases quite capable ones, on them. And in earlier concepts Lanius was supposed to use explosives. Such preference or desire to use explosives can be noted with Aurelius of Pheonix, whose group you can teach to reuse NCR mines and also Centurions in general use or at least posses dynamite or other explosives on their person. So a Legion vs BoS engagement would probably be very explosive based rather than a melee.
Well I mean knights were pretty tribal as well lol
You clearly know nothing of the legion nor it’s equipment
@Andrew Ryan I forgot about the thermic lances. I need to do a pc playthrough soon
this has been my dream every other playthrough, BoS/Legion alliance holding them both in check
It'd be cool to see the brotherhood be integrated into the legion as a tech-priesthood like organization, keeping their original goal of preserving technology but also now working on improving it and slowly introducing it into society where it's needed, and serving as heavy troopers and tacticians for advanced weaponry. Praise the Omnissiah and Mars, for one gave us a new world and the other gave us the tools to conquer it.
I honestly don't see any friction between the two factions. The legion gets power armor training, land, and additional small arms technology and the B.O.S. get free dibs on any new technology found and free reign on major mechanical installations like the dam and Helios solar array. I really like the tech priest role the b.o.s. would take sense they really aren't interested in territory and the legion would supply them with additional security for studying technical installations.
Doubt it as the BOS would be appalled at the slavery and treatment of women.
Every female initiate, scribe, knight and paladin would be forced into Slavery.
The BOS’s over reliance and whole existence being based on hoarding and understanding technology makes them ideological opposites.
The Brotherhood would fight to the death rather than accept to even negotiate an integration with Caesars Legion.
No member of the brotherhood would ever serve Caesar, or be his slave.
@@mitchjames9350 probably less of a concern with the slaves but I can see the women thing being an issue though I imagine that due to brotherhood women being able to become a knight I feel like an exception would be made
@@cai1725 the only thing I can think of is the BOS recruiting slaves to protect them from the Legion.
Another idea that was cut from the game was for Mr. House to accept NCR annexation of Vegas, in exchange for full NCR citizenship and the Lucky 38 as his property. It's implied that House would have used the trappings of corruption and nepotism within the NCR to become extremely influential in their politics and business regulations.
New Vegas does such a good job of portraying the strengths and weaknesses of each political system. Caesar's Legion, an authoritarian faction, acts with speed and power but is brutally violent, lacks free will, and is politically frail. The NCR, a democracy, has freedom, relatively broad popular support, and is politically stable. But democracies are slow moving and inefficient because of bureaucracy.
yes the ncr is totally stable and isn't collapsing
@@rasheedyoufreealrajhi6022 >Laughs in The Hub cucking their own national currency by reintroducing caps as the economic standard
NCR politically stable lol
The NCR forces itself onto others. It's priorities are to go beyond California. The support isn't there. It's people who are apolitical within the mojave that haven't comprehended the logic of the legion. But because this is the apocalypse. It's alot more difficult to do any social engineering since people would rather live and be left alone if anything as you can gather from the farmers nearer to where the boomers are situated and the people of Quarry Junction and Goodsprings and Primm which have enough on their plate as it is without the NCR barging in offering democratic government infrastructure when nobody fucking asked. It's owned by Brahmin Barons and is an oligarchy through and through. More territory comes more capital. Capital from manifesting more citizens.
@@uberd3323 the BOS damaged the NCR’s currency.
"We had found a massive structure, surrounded by the abominations of the Old World - robots. Their firepower was uncontested, their armor impenetrable, and their fervor in the defense of this place insurmountable, even with our numbers.
Then, the Centurion sent a courier out into the waste. Upon his return, ten warriors, clad in shining steel and bearing the Mark of Caesar, accompanied him. Without a word, they unleashed such fire upon the robots that I shook in awe and terror to behold it. The weapons of the foe were turned away by these warriors' plate, who in turn reduced the abominations to nought but slag and ash where they stood. So fierce and awful was the might of these warriors, that they accomplished in a day what our entire cohort could not achieve in a fortnight of combat.
Then, we received the order to move on, and let our saviors deal with the structure. No questions were to be asked, for the mission of their order was sacrosanct, I am told. We only know that they protect us from the mistakes of the Old World, these chosen Angels of Mars who alone are blessed to harness the weapons of a bygone age."
I really want a comic version of this now
Holy shit, do you write books or something?
@@moondrip2163
I write a little bit
For this, I took inspiration from how Space Marines are written about from the perspective of Guardsmen in the Warhammer 40k setting.
Well written
Dude, you may have predicted the second season of fallout years before it was even released!
Came here to say this lol
One of the few good Fallout channels left
Alex Jones approved
For real. This guy is carrying Fallout CZcams on his back
That's just because we haven't had a good fallout since NV and 3 before that.
Fallout 4 was way too crafty and arcadey and easily to colorful. Your actions didn't affect the wasteland at all aside from just... Base building. To top it all off there was zero moral ambiguity in the game. You had a clear evil faction, a clear good faction, a clear stupid faction, and a faction who you'd gain the most material benefit from joining.
Theres nothing like FO3s Pitt dlc where you have to decide between asur and Werner.
Schizo Elijah, Red Tsun, Chad No-Bark the Chad trinity
@@rhett5058 redditor trinity*
Also I think the BoS needs to allow abit more fluidity into their methods. I think Roger Maxsons ideals are good, but to blindly adhere to them with no adaptation to the new circumstances they face over time is an error. Following the tenants exactly worked for 50 years at maximum efficiency, and a century at most, but by the time the NCR formally formed(2182), they should have been working to form a proper territory. A proper territory with a more concentrated Council system would actually allow the BoS to uphold their values more so, not less. Similar to how the Midwestern Chapter did in Tactics, they can screen high end advanced technology, and secure it. But they can also expand their population. Having advanced technology in the hands of an uneducated Wastelander is defining dangerous. But if they choose to join the Brotherhood, and learn how to properly manage it and follow the ideals of the BoS, then they are no longer some Wasteland dolt or Tribal, they are a part of the mission of the BoS. This isn't impossible either, since they had good relations with the Hub and some other groups for awhile. Now I wouldn't do some of the things the Lyons Chapter did, like giving out free water to everyone, because that's just asking for corruption to set in. With their level of technology, and using a similar system of currency to the Sierra Madre chip(though with circuitry integrated into it this forming an energy currency), they could form an economic system, which could fund further trade they need, and to boost their operations. Education systems could also be put in place for the BoS territory. Now maybe some might say "well that's not what Elder Maxsons tents propose" in a sense that is true. But the BoS mission is to preserve technology from the uneducated in the Wastes, and those who would abuse it, such as dangerous factions. And to protect humanity. I believe this means on all fronts, not just technologically. Preserve technology and knowledge, yes. But then put it to good use, not let it be stagnant. The BoS is supposed to be forming a new Path for humanity, and isolationism cannot accomplish that. It had it's place, but it's time for adaptation. Elder Maxson said he was just a man, so he has his own faults, and while I generally agree with his ideals, they aren't some sort of divine law, and I believe they can still be adapted to new circumstances if given proper thought.
Elizabeth Taggerdy: Roger, we don't have the men for the mission. The Bravos just keep coming.
Roger Maxson: Then find new men. Think outside the playbook.
Elizabeth Taggerdy: Elder, you trust the outsiders too readily. They will betray you.
Roger Maxson: You, too, Paladin? Everyone around me keeps saying shut the world out, only look out for ourselves. Even my goddam son. But the Brotherhood alone can't rebuild what's lost. We need them. Hell, our whole plan is for them.
Roger Maxson's original ideas was to share the technology
Although I do agree with you the best course of action would be to build a system of government like the midwestern Brotherhood has we even see that the East Coast brother has started that with Arthur in charge.
@Harkon Takala wouldn't project purity devalue the cap though? Its value is backed by the water merchants of The Hub, and if water is suddenly free then they're out of business. Sure the brotherhood could back they're own currency, but what would they back it with? And imagine how much more unstable everything would become if the cap is suddenly worthless.
Yes, project purity has the potential to do immense good, but if poorly executed it could throw everything into chaos
@Harkon Takala but if it was set in California, I think we can both agree there'd be some instability
As Sgt. Robo said, integrating some faction of the Brotherhood as a Cult of Vulcan would make some sense, being those trusted with collecting technology for the legion, and keeping it away from those not trusted with it yet.
I thought this was a Schizo Elijah video for a second based on thumbnail alone.
Yeah I mean his character is literally Elijah, a BoS former elder and his vids about Legion
BOS: "Sir; give us all your energy weapons"
Legion: "Energy weapons? who gives a fuck about energy weapons? what's mine is mine"
LOL
*Stares in Frumentarii* Yes, it is yours.
I feel like if the BoS, even if it were just the Mojave Chapter, were to agree to assimilate into the mythos of the Legion, they could continue their mission of collecting technology in near complete peace. Scribes acting as priests, warning of the evils of technology, while Knights and Paladins become something of demi gods, serving the son of Mars in the removal of profane machinery to protect the public.
BoS and Legion alliances has a pretty good chances in my eyes. Just like US and Soviet cooperation in WW2. Maybe after winning the war against the NCR there will be a tension between the BoS and the Legion but that too seems a bit unikely .Since the BoS is just an organization that is okay with not having a country or state on its own.
Unless the Midwestern brotherhood becomes a superpower to help in the ceaser war. Is likely that the brotherhood can’t handle the forces of legionnaires.
@@Ttegegg I think they'd be better as special forces-- Striking key targets with lots of technology that the legion couldn't handle without purging their own ranks afterward.
@@Ttegegg I dont know if the Midwestern Brotherhood even still exists by the time of NV. Caesar’s Legion has wiped out Brotherhood chapters east of Arizona.
Totally different
Nah brotherhood lets women fight. They would clash way too much over women’s role in society
I think Lucius could be used as a diplomat of sorts for Caesar or Lanius to the BoS and in turn it would eventually integrate The BoS considering themselves as having an Elder in Caesar or a Council in Caesars replacements
Vulpes is already the legion diplomat, as well as the legion spy/intrigue dude. There's some dialogue about him making contact with tribal chiefs on Caesar's orders for some questionable diplomatic reasons. Lucius is more rational than Lanous, but not enough to be anywhere near as charismatic as a diplomat should be. Generally speaking, gunboat-type diplomacy seems more the Legion's style.
@@limeboiler5471 fair enough I always operate under the assumption Vulpes will be out of the way but I suppose adding Vulpes to my equation will help BoS integration along
@@AD-en5dq vulpes is very cunning, something tells me in most scenarios he'd stay on top or near the top
man, this video is never been newer
Interesting stuff!
What is your opinion of the theory that in the case of a legion courier, the courier would become Caesars successor? The key evidence being, in my opinion, the end slide where a gold coin is minted in the couriers honor, something that was only done in imperial Rome for the emperor or his chosen heir.
That was actually a theory I was thinking of covering soon. I think Caesar does partly recognize that the Legion almost needs to be ruled by another non-tribal, such as himself, to have the best chance.
@@yaboiii6562 Huzzah! Couldn't agree more
@@yaboiii6562 do it. Let the dark side flow through you
I always imagined he'd become one of their high ranks, helping them lead further attacks as they expand, like Joshua Graham
Never thought about this scenario, but it's interesting, could you also do a scenario where The Legion/Caesar and Mr. House comes in an agreement?
Or what if Mr. House managed to bring the entirety of The Great Kahns early on under his command?
@Enclave Remanent Yesssss
@Enclave Remanent Yea a Mongolian themed casino sounds cool.
A video on the Great Khan ending where they go to Wyoming and reconnect with the Followers would also be interesting.
@@tikalthewhimsicott2736 There is one.
i don't think that would work, like some people mistake Mr. House as being cold and robotic, when in actuality he has some humanity and ethics, when you tell him "True to Kaeser" after killing him he'll express a regret that humanities future is Legion slavery, and he also already calculated that he and the Legion cannot work together (if they could, he would've used them, house vauled the economic stability of the NCR income more) and you're forgetting why Caesar wants to conquore Vegas in the first place,
Vegas is Caesar's rome, its a conflicted interest. House wants the NCR economy without the NCR actually invading and overtaking Vegas by force and Caesar needs the symbolic victory of conquering Vegas and having a Rome which will culturally progress the Legion.
I love the idea of these legion citizens reverently handing over tech to this giant faceless hunk of metal, while just behind the helmet is some awkward teen on their first trip out of the bunker.
Some awkward buff teen! you know everyone has to be jacked from walking around with power armor on.
@@curtismcpsycho8212 and totally not from watching a thing called redmoa
@@curtismcpsycho8212 Yeah, that shit must be really damn heavy. I definitely wouldn't want to have to wear it.
Another Yaboii video on the Legion? Pog
Caesar isn't wrong. The Brotherhood is too dogmatic and short-sighted. They could've recivilized the West decades in advance before the NCR rose to its prominence. Instead, they waited until they developed into a threat and got nearly wiped out. The Legion has its flaws but at least it's a solution. The Brotherhood is an active hindrance on the development of human post-war society.
The brotherhood you're talking about was led by Elijah, Mcnamara would probably be more diplomatic if the NCR wasn't a bunch of greedy dipshits.
I Found a Shovel !!
BoS : i will take that
🙄
Well, what can i say, you reinvented Warhammer 40k with its Imperium of man and Adeptus Mechanicus.
i have the theory fallout and warhammer 40k exists the same universe, a universe where The Legion conquest the all america and maybe the world and later the galaxy itself (sorry if i miss in this part of the lore of 40k)
I think it would have been cool if choosing the BOS Elder would allow you to make different Alliances.
McNamara would be willing to reconcile with the NCR while Hardin would be willing to work with the Legion as long as it meant revenge against the NCR
OH MY GOD!
I've had this idea ever since I've first played FNV but everyone I told this to thought I was insane! It feels so validating seeing my favourite Fallout lore CZcamsr make a video on this topic.
Your videos are always a banger! Thanks for continuing to produce such high quality Fallout videos!
I've never though about this idea, but it does make a lot of sense
Your about to see this idea come to life in the 2nd season of the fallout tv show
i could imagine the brotherhood existing within legion territory in the same way the fallowers are allowed to exist in legion territory.
so long as they dont challenge the legions right to rule, I cant see the legion caring what technology they horde. if they could form an auxiliary unit to the legion that would definitely be appreciated
What I can see It could a treaty like the Treaty of Mars from Warhammer 40K be done between them two .
I once fanfic'd a union between the Enclave and Legion which would be very similar to the Imperium of Man from Warhammer 40k.
what fanfic can you pass?
Blood, iron and courage is what wins a battle. But only a fool prefers one weapon over another.
I could see Ceaser taking a page from Rome's book and appointing the Brotherhood and priests. Able to handle the 'unclean' technology and secure it away where it wont harm the citizens of the Empire. This would fit with the Brotherhood's attitude pretty well Id think.
Oh also Caisar knows he needs beuracrats to run his Empire and the scribes would be an excellent source for recruits.
Was excited to see this in my inbox, been playing through FNV recently for the first time in six years with most of the viva new vegas mod list on hardcore and have been having a blast
Nice! Who you backing?
@@yaboiii6562 Honestly I think I'm leaning NCR right now. In the past I'd usually go Yes Man, but this time I'm thinking a bit differently for a few reasons. I still sympathize with the idea of independence for Vegas but the various groups of Vegas that I think would play an important role in building some kind of democratic independent state, like the Westside militia, the Kings, and the local Followers, all benefit from cooperation with the NCR more than they'd benefit if the NCR was forced to withdraw from the region entirely. Dialogue in the game mentions that Westside has experienced a reprieve from Fiend attacks because NCR forces at McCarran keep them in check. The Followers and the Kings meanwhile both benefit heavily from cooperation with the NCR in-game, greatly reducing poverty and violence in Freeside based on the relevant ending slides from what I remember.
The main thing holding me back from fully supporting the NCR is I'm worried a success in the Mojave might reward war-hawks like Kimball, Oliver, and Moore, whereas a forced NCR withdrawal bolsters anti-hawk sentiment indicated by Hanlon's election and the presumed ruination of the political careers of Kimball and Oliver.
Sounds good! and great points in regards to Westside, Freeside and the Followers tbh. They all disparage the NCR but also piggyback of the protection they provide.
@@yaboiii6562 True, that's a great way of summarizing it! One thing I've always been curious about it in the event of an independent/House ending is the fate of the NCR rangers in the Mojave, because if I'm not wrong the former Desert Rangers of the Mojave were incorporated into the NCR Rangers and keep most of the gangs of the Mojave like the Vipers and Jackals in check. So I've always wondered if all the rangers would pack up and head for the Mojave Outpost or if the Desert Rangers would return in some form, and if not whether weak gangs like the Vipers and Jackals could rebuild their strength in their absence.
Don't feel obligated to reply to that question unless you feel like it though, just thinking out loud! Keep up the great work man I look forward to your uploads
@@yaboiii6562 Very nice video with all your point in what the legion can use the BoS for in regards to its belief system.
In the base game, Mr House will not allow the BoS to be a part of his New Vegas because of its view on tech, but at one point there was the option to gain an alliance between the two, if you have done one side of the faction coin why not the other where you do a what if where Mr House has a treaty with them.
In my mind Mr House agrees to let the BoS be the start of the new High Tech Centre of his New Vegas.
4:02 The comedic timing of the sentinel pausing and adjusting their posture is incredible
As a Brother of Steel, I think the distinction between the Legion being Pseudo-Luddites and rejecting the majority of advanced technology (with the exception of some firearms for elite members, salvaging parts of power armor from skirmishes from the BoS for Centurions, and the hypocritical use of medical technology for Caesars personal usage), and the BoS rejecting harmful technologies like Nuclear bombs and missiles, and things like forced experimentation, and being the Overseers of other technologies, are important. Wether you agree with the BoS views on technology or not.. their goal is to help humanity, but the Legion does what they do out of Caesars wims. Besides that it's a very interesting video. If they did form an alliance, I can see a sort of Brotherhood of Vulcan thing going on. The OWB mod for HOI4 has something like that, and it's extremely fascinating.
Thanks for the analysis. I've had OWB mod for HOI4 recommended so many times - need to play it.
@@yaboiii6562 yeah I saw you mentioned those same points in your video. I just wanted to consolidate things abit, and hit home on the foundational differences for why they do things. Maybe it seemed trivial, but I thought it needed. And you should definitely play the OWB mod for HOI4, it has ALOT of possibilities and interesting scenarios. For a first time playthrough, I'd recommend the Shi, they're pretty unique and small so they're easier to manage in a sense.
7:04 Ironically in some ways BOS are more Luddites then Caesar's Legion. Because atleast Caesar allows high tech technology to some, so long as you earned it in their ranks. Besides being one of the BOS, you aren't getting any tech from em
Yaboii; the new age Fallout: New Vegas loremaster. Keep up the great work!
Thank you!
@@yaboiii6562 What about nc conquroring the subjects of the legion, not slaves.
I think kind of the point of those groups in most of fallout is - their ideologies make them unstable specifically because they CAN'T have proper allies as a result of them. The Legion are Imperialists and ultimately they conquer, they don't cooperate. The Brotherhood are Isolationist, which also prevents *most* cooperation in any kind of long term sense.
Man. These videos are so gooooood. Well done!!
Glad you like them!
I'm just thinking that this would all make a really good post-game mod, like a "Battle for New Vegas", set soon after the second battle of Hoover Dam. Legion starts spilling over the river in a vast horde, the NCR masses troops in the Mojave, the BOS takes HELIOS ONE, Black Mountain, and begins recruiting from wastelanders and rebuilding their numbers. The Legion and BOS form a truce and agree to strategically coordinate to remove all remaining NCR forces in the area, with the BOS relaying intel of NCR troop positions through the radio array at Black Mountain to the Fort across the river. The BOS has scouts all over the Mojave in plain clothes, relaying intel so that Legion and BOS patrols can coordinate attacks on NCR... meanwhile, from their giant underground bunker just outside of Cheyenne Mountain in Wyoming, the remnants of the west coast Enclave make their preparations for a full scale military invasion of thousands of Enclave shock troops, looking for revenge against the weakened NCR... I'm imagining that in this mod, Mr. House and his Securitron army would have to be wiped out for this to work... so I would explain this story-wise, as the Enclave showing up in a large scale tactical Vertibird raid, taking over the whole strip, destroying and reprogramming the Securitrons, and ending Mr. House's rain, if he survived or not. This would be an amazing project, like a whole extra game built on to FNV that takes effect when you actually beat the game. A game where you could actually side with the Legion, NCR, (Their main base will likely be a highly fortified Mojave Outpost) Enclave, BOS, and others... Imagine, for example, that the Boomers side with the Enclave and receive Enclave tech and military assistance in exchange for quartering Enclave troops and serving as a strategic airbase for Vertibird raids, making the Boomers a far more powerful faction than they were before. Quests for each faction, including full scale military conflicts and epic battles (Like Broken Steel but way better) including huge underground pre-war military/government bunker complexes, and traveling to different lands to infiltrate and destroy the headquarters of each faction... I've seen some people working on post-game mods and it's very promising. I just want the story and plotlines to continue into "what ifs" to keep it alive and not stale. A mod with a ton of combat and big high-level engagements would be fun, especially with tons of troops you can toss mininukes at for fun... I always felt like FNV had all these great weapons and everything but not enough fun and challenging combat. I want like actual WARS between factions. Like battlefields.
Didn't ceaser send some legionarys go to buy energy weapons during a silver rush quest
"When fallout new vegas, is inevitably, re-released to us all" dont tease me like that
Well it have a big possibility now
The fire in the rear is probably the only arguement Caesar would listen too, it would be a total NCR defeat in his mind.
fuck it one struggle
One Struggle!
Ave. For The Brotherhood! ✊🏻✊🏻✊🏻
All you gotta do is toss a rock down their air vents and clog up the filtration system, they'll come out eventually, on top of that their point of access is surrounded by cliffs on every side. Mines layed at every narrow exit, a few .50s loaded with AP, and a few handfuls peppering them with lighter fire to distract and keep pinpointing of heavier fire to a minimum. The brotherhood hasnt the numbers to pursue, and likely arent as fast and maneuverable as the light infantry as the legion, just run them around at distance like the NCR did at the first battle.
Legion isn't against tech, they're against the reliance of tech, as they believe you should be able to survive without it.
Except Caesar himself uses an Auto-Doc to keep him alive. Sure, it's broken, but neither he or anyone in the Legion has issues with you repairing it to save his life.
@@nicholasemjohnson47 *dont use tech where it isnt necessary
@@johanbjorkman1914 Really? If that were the case, why does only he get to use the Auto-Doc while the rest have to rely on healing powder?
So its the imperium of man and the cult mechanicum...
I could imagine a scenario where after the battle of hoover dam (with a weak willed macnamera still in power, and not the general guy) Caesar turns on the brotherhood in a surprise assault, butchering many, but accepting the surrender of any scribes and children who throw down their arms thanks to a deal with Mcnamera (who in this timeline sold out the Paladin's to save the rest of his people after being told of Hardin's progress towards replacing him by the courier). Once they have their weapons stripped of them and their loyalty broken in for the Legion the surviving brotherhood techies could then become the Legions "Oracles" and serve as a technically separate (but still subservient) entity from it, but with a new codex modified to better mesh with the Legion's faith serving as their founding document by Caesars order.
The general guy was Hardin
Reminds me of the Tech Priests working under the Imperium of Man in 40K
dude, this is a good idea
I've honestly been waiting for a video on this topic, and coming from a creator who has quickly become one of my favorites, I rate this a 10/10.
A technologically advanced Legion would be a cool separate faction concept.
Yeah, its something we see on The Frontier beside the hate.
"After taking Hoover Dam, the Legion established dual siege lines around both Helios I and Hidden Valley. A single, unarmed Decanus approached the former's garrison with terms for the Legion's withdrawal: the Brotherhood must nominate and send one of its senior members to take Caesar's Mark, and come to the bargaining table. After tense negotiations, an agreement to spare both great bloodshed is reached: the Legion would rule the Mojave without contest from the Brotherhood, who would in turn respond to Legion calls to contain advanced technology, while retaining their current holdings and diverting half of Helios I's output wherever Caesar wished."
The Legion is not a nation of tribals. What we see in FN:V is the military arm of the Legion, but they pacified lands and built cities.
F:NV really is a "believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear" kind of deal. Many opinions voiced by denizens of the Mojave don't correspond with the actual situation in-game at all.
Also, this is all we really got of the Legion. Very unfortunate. It would've been awesome to see them fleshed out way more instead of being just the obvious big bad. Seeing civilians like farmers and such in the east/further Legion territory would've been so nice
I always had felt that in the Hardin Mcnamara conflict was leading up to Hardin proposing an alliance with the Legion in which theyd attack HELIOS ONE.
honesty this make senses, Hardin he was wants attack the helios one ocupped by ncr.
The Legion is seen to have Anti Material rifles at dry wells, so yes, they stand a much better chance than the swarms of service rifle wielding conscripts did at Helios one
God Bless The Enclave. God Bless America.
The Enclave will make all other factions bow.
Pretty sure Autumn was the only enclave member in all of fallout who wanted people to bow. In 2 and 3 they just wanted to purge the wasteland.
@@spiffygonzales5160 I don't endorse the Rabid Purists.
@@crusader2112
I do. Purge the wasteland and rebuild. No nukes, no war, no raiders, no monsters, no mutants, no unnatural disease, no mass scavenging economics
Just the former u.s government rebuilding a wasteland free from everything that makes fallout a living hell.
@@spiffygonzales5160 But killing majority Wastelanders, why?
Based PrussianBall Pfp though.
Prussian GANG!
@@crusader2112
Lol. Don't get me wrong it's a shitty side effect that all the smart ghouls and most of the people will die, but like... Take the NCR and bring it another hundred years down the line when they start running out of stuff to scavenge. I don't really see any faction in fallout being able to rebuild other than the Enclave.
This would be an absolutely insane power couple
Calling SchizoElijah rn
Thing is, by the taking Caesar's ego out of the equation, it takes out most of the Legion as well. Caesar's ego is what led him to become an ultimate warlord over unquestioning fanatics, using an early (and failed) to base his Legion on. He keeps rationalizing his decision with things like "we have to avoid relying on gadgets, so that we can be strong) but his entire mannerism toward the Courier, lies to his allies and hypocrisy in pointing out flaws in others that the Legion also has proves that he's just a power-hungry megalomaniac.
By the way: you forgot the mention that the Brotherhood Caesar overwhelms in Hidden Valley are already crippled by the Courier, so it's not like Caesar's Legion is so awesome. It's the exact same case as the NCR outnumbering the Brotherhood at HELIOS and driving them out.
I think an interesting part of all of this, is we already see the Legion going after more advanced weaponry in the finale of the Silver Rush quest line.
This video might turn out to be one of great significance.
14:10 I wouldn't even call Legion enemy of BOS, it's really just Caesar animosity and pride that keeps him from seeing an even bigger picture.
BOS are like traitors of the technological world, sure they still use technology but they only do it to hoarde it, it's literally perfect ally faction for Legion. They hoarde tech to not tempt Legion citizens and in return Legion somewhat anti tech ideology keeps tribals away from tech like BOS wants.
I'm honestly surprised this such seemless perfect alliance isn't achievable in game
the frog legionnaire was so fucking funny
"There wouldn't be wastelanders to take tech for power if they are all enslaved or crucified!"
-my first thought when i saw this
I have this mod installed... now I just actually have to finish a playthrough to see it working.
Hell, you could argue that Ceasar would have no problem leaving the brotherhood alone temporarily because of his ego and the fact that multiple of his men took down knights before. Similar to every other tribe he betrayed, just biding time and taking advantage of their skills and motives until they were no longer needed. If there's one the legion is good at, it's making friends despite everything else they're doing.
Ave, the Emperor protects!
I just want to watch a bunch of legion recruits try to hack apart a Paladin in power armor with rusty machetes. Really the only thing that could hurt them is anti material rifle and the thematic lance
I think this oversimplifies the Legion's stance on technology. The Legion has dealings with the Van Graffs, hoping to acquire energy weapons. They use bombs and guns, radios, cyberdogs, and even a Howitzer. Caesar's use of the Autodoc isn't hypocrisy. He simply forbids chems and painkillers, not medicine entirely. He permits you to perform surgery on him yourself if you so choose. In the post game the Legion wipes out the Brotherhood presumably with weaponry capable of defeating power armor (or using the self destruct bunker codes; either way involve technological knowhow). The Legion even occupies Helios One if the NCR is driven out.They don't share common interests with the Brotherhood because the Brotherhood would seek to confiscate the tech that they acquire. The Legion believe that the over-reliance on technology is a weakness, not a strength, whereas the Brotherhood believes that technology itself is intrinsically dangerous in the wrong hands. Similar, but not the same beliefs, and that's the extent of their similarities. The Legion believes in changing and adapting (as per Caesar's belief in Hegelian Dialectic), whereas the Brotherhood at its core is not interested in change. Also, cut content isn't lore. It never happened. It never will happen, and using it in argumentation isn't definitive.
The legion is like the NCR both use mass troops, the legion would most likely overwhelm the bos forcing them to retreat.
It still makes more sense then BOS and NCR alliance, both hate each other and backstabbed each other, NCR wants and WILL technologically advance.
Imho it only makes sense for BOS to reject alliance not Legion, Caesar should've know the alliance makes a lot of sense, but since BOS in Mojave are paranoid Schizo freaks, it makes sense they refuse any alliance besides independent Vegas. Unironically they should've forced even NCR Couriers to wipe em out.
Caesar's use of an Auto-Doc IS hypocritical. He says humanity shouldn't be reliant on technology, yet he himself has no issues with using it to keep himself from dying. If he can't survive without it, then by his own logic, he doesn't deserve to live.
You have an odd way of saying certain words. I like it. This whole video was something different, and I like it.
I remember in a playthrough were the legion attacked me , and one threw a fucking plasma grenade at me.
For me this just makes so much more sense than a NCR and Brotherhood alliance. Caesar’s legion ruling the wastes with the brotherhood sneakily patrolling and removing tech which could damage the emperors ideals just makes so much sense to me.
good video, I like the points you made, now I think that as the chapters differed in mission and method Caesar could have allied with some chapters, Caesar may not have gone for it but I think he'd have the option.
The main reason this wouldn't work is both sides seeing everybody else as inferior.
I think NCR/Minutemen would be a great fit teaming up with Brotherhood though. Brotherhood needs resources and manpower and requires to oversee the technology. The other two factions would really benefit from their technological expertise and military might.
Alliance where NCR/Minutemen provides the infrastructure, laws and people while Brotherhood is allowed to oversee technology to prevent abuse and concentrate on outside threats as the elite troops (like astartes for all you Warhammer fans) would rebuild the world in no time. Paladins actually protecting the weak and innocent as their name suggests and kids dreaming of signing up with Brotherhood to be a hero.
I’m doing a super bad guy legion melee run rn and Veronica has been my companion. She seems to have no real issue standing outside Caesar’s tent with the praetorian. If you ask her about them directly she’s def not a fan, but apparently not enough of one to refuse to walk around helping them.
The two factions are far too arrogant to tolerate each other's existence
You might want to start requesting a paycheck, or at least a prop from the show.
Sounds like the Brotherhood of Steel would be the Adaptus Machanicus to the Legion's Imperiam
I have the theory that Fallout and Warhammer 40k are the same universe
Ah Yes
Cut Game Content of Fallout:NW
A never ending Sad Time
Love your videos man!
Appreciate it!
they cut this?
edit: 14:43 also those weren't scribes if they didn't know maxon, but rather initiates. the Midwest historically since they took a more followers like approach is always critically under-supplied, but unlike other chapters does not lack manpower, even with keeping the potentially fatal initiation trials. but they would not use the name "codex" for there military manual since it is also the name of an accepted religon in the areas "bible"
It always struck me odd how the BoS has a higher chance allying the NCR than the Legion
Given that the NCR was both at war with the BoS as well as being ideologically opposed to the Brotherhood
That's because the Legion has no tolerance for any organised factions that don't answer to them. You're either target practice or a slave in the Legions eyes. Not a potential ally.
Its insane to think that the BOS could be almost a monastic order that coexists with the Legion. Like monk monsataries in the time of Rome
Spoilers
Your wish might've came true in the Fallout show judging by their naming convention and sudden religious aspect of the show's California chapter. Its not just a truce, but synthesis of the two.
great video!
“Sibyl” is the Roman equivalent of “oracle.”
"Bethesda has rereleased the same game with microtransactions over and over. They're a dead end"
I also have pondered this alliance. I love it.
10:45 POG Union? 0-o
This sounds like some sick, yet beautiful union
If new Vegas ever get a sequel This would be a really cool faction interaction.
Cant wait for the "why the ncr should ally with the enclave" video