Operator Syndrome Impact on Vets, Active Duty, LE and the Special Operations Community | Chris Frueh
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- This episode dives deep into the challenges and conditions dubbed 'Operator Syndrome' faced by veterans and active-duty members of the military, exploring both psychological and physical facets, including traumatic brain injury, PTSD, hormonal imbalances, low testosterone, existential issues, and more.
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The episode features insights from Dr. Chris Frueh, a clinical psychologist with extensive experience treating thousands of veterans, on the complexity of these issues and the effects on individuals and their families. It also highlights the importance of a holistic approach to treatment, covering proper diet, sleep, medical care, and the support structures provided by organizations like the Warrior Health Foundation.
Additionally, it addresses the unique experiences of female operators and the broader implications of these syndromes across different nations and military roles.
Check out our interview with Derek Nadalini - former Delta Force operator featured in this video - at • Delta Force | 1st SFOD...
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🎵 Intro Song: Sport Rock from Audio Jungle
#veterans #operatorsyndrome #ptsd #specialoperations
⏰ Show Notes:
00:00 - Intro
01:11 Unveiling Operator Syndrome with Dr. Chris Frueh
01:22 The Science Behind Operator Syndrome
02:01 Chris Frueh: A Life Dedicated to Veterans' Health
04:36 The Power of Music and Connection
06:20 Understanding Operator Syndrome: A Deep Dive
14:58 The Personal Journey of Dr. Chris Frueh
25:43 Insights into History of Suicide in Active Duty Military since the 1800s
36:27 Why do we call Operator Syndrome a Syndrome
42:18 What exactly is TBI (it's not what I expected)
50:36 The Hidden Impact of TBIs Beyond Physical Injuries
53:29 Diagnosing and Recognizing TBIs: Challenges and Approaches
55:04 The Signature Injury of Modern Warfare: Research and Realities
55:41 Innovations and Adjustments in Training to Mitigate TBI Risks
01:05:51 The Psychological and Existential Effects of Operator Syndrome
01:14:31 Addressing TBIs: Medical Insights and Personal Stories
01:15:31 The Global Perspective: Operator Syndrome in International Forces
01:16:42 Women in Combat w/ Operator Syndrome
01:24:56 Three Things to Change if You're Dealing with Operator Syndrome
01:29:56 Closing Thoughts and Listener Comments
What is Operator Syndrome?
From Chris' Research paper: We identified a consistent pattern of health-care difficulties within the special operation forces community that we and other special operation forces health-care providers have termed “Operator Syndrome.” This includes interrelated health and functional impairments including traumatic brain injury effects; endocrine dysfunction; sleep disturbance; obstructive sleep apnea; chronic joint/back pain, orthopedic problems, and headaches; substance abuse; depression and suicide;
anger; worry, rumination, and stress reactivity; marital, family, and community dysfunction; problems with sexual health and intimacy; being “on guard” or hypervigilant; memory, concentration, and cognitive impairments; vestibular and vision impairments; challenges of the transition from military to civilian life; and common existential issues.
“Operator Syndrome” may be understood as the natural consequences of an extraordinarily high allostatic load; the accumulation of physiological, neural, and neuroendocrine responses resulting from the prolonged chronic stress; and physical demands of a career with the military special forces. Clinical research and comprehensive, intensive immersion programs are needed to meet the unique needs of this community.
Okay Ryan, I have learned so much about myself being the recipient of the awesome conversations you have. Yes, war stories are awesome and inspiring and humbling, and you always lead the conversation to real time loved and lived life. Thank you so much for the incredible work and dedication to fostering understanding and then compassion and sympathy both for service members but more than that, all of us who didn’t serve (I’ll always argue my time in Hollywood has significant parallels to military service). That stated, this conversation is the top of my list of your most impactful conversations. Massive thanks to you and Chris for going deep. These conversations have provided me insight, guidance, and a road to healing. Thank you very much Sir!! I’m out on a farm and vineyard in the Sierra foothills and if you want to come out for a day of California glory and a meal to remember, it would be an honor to treat you to that, and (selfishly) give me the opportunity to give back, provide thanks, and have purpose and task that is so important.
Also, I just subscribed to Mad Rabbit. I’m so in the camp of your not having tattoos but respecting them, and then finally found the art that I wanted forever on my arm. Thank you for your awesome partnership and bringing so much more value and beauty to our lives! I encourage you to ruminate on art that you want to live with you and provide you a minute by minute reminder of your commitment to life and love. I never thought I would tattoo anything on my body, but when the waveform collapsed in the perfect way, I jumped and am so thankful for the experience and to have that deep experience with me every day. I’ve wanted to retain the brilliance of the ink and art. I hadn’t been aware of or focused on how I do that. SO… this episode has provided me both existential and practical roads for a better life. Seriously…thank you Dude. You’re fucking crushing it!!!
This was a great episode. I should probably make that call the VA mental health.
Very interesting interview. I think more veterans will find there is more than just a mental issue and something drugs can fix. Thank you for doing this Ryan.
I feel like just throwing out this PSA, antidepressants can trigger and exascerbate a lot of unique issues that can be very dangerous to vets and very hard to diagnose. For instance, I was put on an antihistamine for anxiety called hydroxyzine that I didnt know at the time gave me a very long lasting (still going) restless leg sydrome. I also went manic on antidepressants a lot of different ones but the worst one for me was fluoxetine, which is common for people with bipolar (runs in my family I guess), and I went full blown delusional, paranoid, nobody could tell, like you could tell something was off but it was hard to see what, I'm talking hysteria, suicidal thoughts (probably my worst to date and i had been hospitalized for it previously), inability to control my emotions, overwhelming anxiety, but if you looked at me, I just looked like... high strung? in reality i was like blowing money, no impulse control, addicted to different substances like speed, insomnia, etc. Hallucinations set in eventually and at one point i had a manic episode (its important to note that not everyone experiences mania the same some are violent, some are elated, some scream, its really dependent on a lot of factors). If i have any advice for veterans and their recoveries I would say keep a log, log your emotions, your body responses and understand what makes you tick like what can trigger your paranoia, what can trigger your anxiety, your irritable bowel syndrome, really pin down your body and then build a life around that. Its a long road, I was an 11B, deployed to afghanistan, CIB awarded, dealt with IEDs, human remain recovery, etc its not about the amount of trauma you experienced or the highs an lows of it, its very sustained high stress work and combat environments (similar to childhood trauma and abuse victims) that really affects the brain function.
Theres actually a lot of evidence behind the idea that completed suicides are usually very violent, very fast events (im not talking about all of them but especially the veteran ones). I don't know who else has experienced this but years of counseling has made me understand, im very lucky to be alive, the first time i was put on antidepressants for an extended period of time at a very high dose i was still undiagnosed bipolar, so i went manic and the feelings, just the raw sadness or guilt that overcomes you can be overwhelming, existential crisis, like full blown panic attacks mixed with paranoia and mania, one time i felt like i "must be dead already and i really have to check" like i have these moments where im absolutely convinced i died in the IED incident i was involved in and I just need to check and how do you prove to yourself that youre still actually living, and the anxiety behind all of that. It's just really crazy, you slowly start to understand and empathize with a lot of these guys that take their own lives like, i dont know what they went through, but it must have felt so real and so raw, that they made a decision in that moment, that inevitably ended their lives. It's just really sad.
How are you now?
@jigsawpulse1139 Lately, better but it's just an ongoing struggle, like to a certain extent this damage is permanent. I can tell you guys the progression so you can catch it early. I started getting migraines in country, when I got back they got worse, I started drinking, started doing stupid things with money and regretting it, like a lot of (why did I buy that? you were never this bad with money?). Drinking to sleep* specifically, when I got back my sleep was the most affected, I had been used to staying up all night because I would get woken up all hours of the night for commo stuff or like to go to the TOC cause we might have a fire mission or whatever. So like when I got back it was really... bad sleep I didn't know why, drinking, bad with money, bad decision making, overly emotional like... too excited for stuff or too angry or too worked up over small insignificant things. Then like just generally starting too many projects, learning too many new skills like I got super into building computers at one point, then obsessed with working on guitars, anyway that's not the point. Then just trouble at work, trouble wanting to go to work, I'd like ghost everyone and not give a fuck, isolating, I stopped going out, and like not a bit here and there, I started eating only at places with a drive thru and eating in my car in the parking lot. Really what was happening is that, I was showing my first signs of bipolar, but the army put me on antidepressants and that made me manic, but being bipolar mixed with exposure to combat I guess gave me a very particular bipolar (mixed features, rapid cycling, and psychosis) so I wasn't like super elated, thinking I was God, or just having like... bipolar symptoms, so they never recognized what was going on. in reality I was delusional, I thought everyone was out to get me, I was emotionally unbalanced, and having existential panics, wondering, like really waking up with anxiety and panic, thinking I was actually dead and had died in Afghanistan and that this was all just a death dream. And then like very so yeah the army didn't know and I wasn't talking (cause of the paranoia and just bad health care in general) so they highered my dosage which made me more manic, less sleeping, like 1 hour a night or less and that obviously led to wayyy more delusions and paranoia and then eventually hallucinations, intrusive suicidal thoughts, etc and I almost ended up... you know. I got off the meds and it seriously took me years to balance back out, I kept having problems related to bipolar but trust me they were tame compared to that first manic episode (I got hospitalized shortly for it) but yeah, this last time I had another manic episode but this time I was married and I had an old friend staying with me so I couldn't hide the symptoms as well, like the random fits of crying, like I would get overrun with emotion, sometimes anger I couldn't control and I would pace and fidget and then it would work up into me hurting myself by like punching something or whatever and that pain would like release my anxiety, but sometimes I would be overwhelmed with sadness and guilt and I would just pretend to go to the Restroom and cry for hours it was insane. other times I'd just feel super good, and like I'd have an amazing feeling I'd go like "get stuff done" but I'd end up doing something I regret, like buying bullshit or whatever. Idk man if you start seeing yourself exhibit symptoms like this you need to just do yourself a favor and start talking to a therapist, or a few, and just find one you like, like a friend. and then tell them everything, sometimes you're just delusional, and you're not gonna figure that out on your own, you really need an outside voice to bring you back. Like at one point I wasn't talking to women in public because I thought my wife had constructed a conspiracy with other women, to like catch me being unfaithful and if I said anything it would incriminate me, it wasn't like a thought it was more of a "feeling", but like... were talking about a Hispanic male, dark skinned, with tattoos, long hair and gauges, ultra paranoid, walking around in public, delusional, avoid all of the women in the area, acting fidgety and weird.... get real I shouldn't be out in places, like it just increases the chances something unintentionally bad happens, like what if someone were to confront me in that state, I would be argumentative and could get in trouble. I mean, this is besides the gambling, drug, addiction, alcohol dependency, those are hard metrics cause so many of us are alcoholics, it's not about being the biggest drinker, if one day you wake up after an alcohol incident and you say to yourself "I shouldn't have done that" you really need to ask yourself and check in, like "did I really mean to do that?" "was I safe, was that fun? Am I okay with the consequences of my actions?, can I stop this behavior or not?". like what I've discovered is that mental health is a lot about "checking in" with yourself, asking yourself what you need, and then finding a way to fulfill that need for yourself.
The first time I was prescribed antidepressants for sleep aid and it kinda worked at first, but then I went into a full-blown black funk for absolutely no reason; complete with suicidal ideation & runaway thoughts I couldn't explain or control. I quit taking it and everything went back to normal, including lack of sleep. Then it happened again when I was given Zyban/Wellbutrin for smoking cessation & mood. It was bad enough that I'm lucky I didn't have any firearms or highway overpasses available. This was way before they started putting black box warnings on antidepressants; when I told my mental health providers, they promptly flagged me as being suicidal, even though I told them it was a purely a result of the meds. To this day the VA considers me a suicide risk & mentally ill, and I've had to fight them every time I see a new doc or case manager.
Thanks for sharing!
Love the podcast! Any plans to chat with any HUMINT folks supporting Afghanistan? That 2009-2012 period is quite interesting.
This interview just reinforces my view. That God did not make us to war against each other, but to love and have compassion for one another.
Great interview and new information. Great content
Excellent stuff. I wrote a book telling my story/our story. I'm glad people are coming forward.
Music is why I can still talk
What’s the connection?
Very good interview. 👍
Kent state was today.
Damn. Listening to the intro and didn't realize Mike Day died. Sad.
Does this apply to fighter pilots. I would think the short term blackouts while pulling extreme Gs could effect them as well.
This is a great episode, thanks gentlemen.
This episode feels like it’s describing me. The problem is all the science is there, but as he stated, the VA won’t recognize it or do anything about it. I am service connected for TBI, and they just combined it with PTSD and said Ok. No treatment, no mention, no nothing. The C&P was laughable, and my first diagnosis was a VA neurologist. Tell him to look into occupational blast exposure from mortars as well, the firing of not just the incoming.
Nice