A Trip Down Memory Lane | EDHRECast 260
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- čas přidán 20. 04. 2023
- What was EDH like when we first started to play it? How did we get into EDH in the first place? We share some EDHRECast origin stories and discuss whether old wisdom still holds up today.
Matt's old Mayael: www.moxfield.com/decks/LSWlYA...
Dana's old Glissa: archidekt.com/decks/4331118
Joey's Mimeoplasm precon: www.moxfield.com/decks/t8b4JE...
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Dana's story of getting into the game early and then leaving after being hit by theft is so relatable for me. I started playing in Mirage; my first rare was a Lion's Eye Diamond. I used to collect them along with Dual Lands right up until 2008 when my flat was broken into and amongst the things stolen was my magic collection which included over a hundred LEDs (they were worth very little at that time; collecting them was a meme/nostalgia hit). They were dumped into the river in the city when the thieves realised they were not Pokemon cards. RIP.
Oh man, I'm very sorry something like that happened to you. I hope you can put that behind you as things like that can live rent in the head for decades.
@@tttyyy949 I don't think about it too much these days. They weren't worth much when I got them; it's more the fact that it ended my playing of MTG entirely until arena turned up and even now I barely have much of a physical collection outside of the pre-con commander decks.
I’m still rocking my Mayael deck I built in 2011. Been upgrading, foiling, and getting it signed by the artists ever since.
That’s so cool, what a classic powerhouse commander 😂.
SAME! I've got Mayael in English, Japanese, and Russian foil 🥰
Same for me. It’s my baby for sure.
I also have a mayael deck can you pass the list?
Mayael is such a special commander. She's not all that great but she has this very specific vibe that you can build around and fall in love with
Dude, I STILL love scrolling through MTG Salvation forums sometimes. There are some real cool deck ideas there.
MTG Salvation can be an amazing resource. You can find some deeply detailed deck analyses there. When I built low curve Edgar Markov, there was practically a book of content of optimization convos and card choice discussions at that point. So great.
The commander deck list database is still a worth a look now and then. Kind of a prototype EDHrec.
@@NightOfCrystals User Dirk Gently created a detailed primer on a Phelddagrif deck that completely changed the way I evaluate commander decks.
@@stephenbradford8524 that’s awesome. There are amazing primers on that site for sure.
I really love hearing people talk about how they got into magic cuz even if with the annoying parts of the game, people always light up about their own golden years and it just reminds me why I love this game. Great episode guys.
Sensei's Devining Top also used to be a staple for every deck, but i haven't seen it for a long while. There were also cards people would play back in the day due to different rules. I always used run a couple tutors specifically to find my commander because the tuck rule was there and every blue deck ran Hinder. Clones were also more scary back in the day because they could basically be a removal spell for commanders due to the legend rule being different.
I started with the original commander precons, I purchased 3 of the originals. The first commander deck I built was Sliver Queen. I started playing with legends.
100% agree on Symmetry Matrix. It’s also very good in elf tribal. I bought 10 of these when the set came out for different decks.
My introduction to EDH was thanks to a friend called Gerard. He taught me how to play Magic and got me so excited about playing Commander. The 1st Commander I ever built was Shalai voice of Plenty. It started as a W/G mesh with some Gods and Token generators. Till this day I have it and it's currently an enchantress deck with Token synergy. My first card ever was a Dromoka Dunecaster. I felt in love with the art from Mark Winters. I still have it to this day. Been playing MTG since 2019
I learned about EDH straight from Sheldon Menery over a decade ago in Temple Terrace, FL. I was a miserable shit back then, so of course my first two decks were Oona mill and Augustine IV stax.
I'm well past that now.
funny how that arch is common, i call it the 60 card mentality. ghave was my first deck and nobody liked it, even me
Now you just run Mass LD 😅
what a great reminisce! My first deck was Thraximundar because I was a bigtime metalhead. Started playing EDH mid 2010, Magic back in '95, don't have Thrax together anymore, but I always think about making it again, don't have any voltron decks currently...
Abe Sargent had an incredible series of articles, “budget builds with Abe” where he would start at an already-low price point (~$50) and work his way down, I think to $30. All of my original commander decks were Abe builds that I gradually built up over time: Olivia, Mobilized for War, Zur the Enchanter as a super janky cycling-matters deck, Shattergang Bros, Zedruu, Ertai, the Corrupted. Good times. I should rebuild them, they were so casual and fun.
My challenge was accepted! Thanks again for another enjoyable podcast!
Man, so many throwbacks. Spinebreaker, mayael's aria, the scariness of indestructability. Also remember miststalker was a spike commander that our group didn't care for. Also, kokusho was a monster in edh as well and could take over slower games. Enjoyed this episode and the nostalgia~
I got first into playing Magic in High School around 2009 and my first prerelease was Alara Reborn, and my group just played kitchen table jank at the high school cafeteria. I played off and on during college and I only fully immersed into the game by being introduced to EDH by a coworker around 2016 ish where they built me a Roon of the Hidden Realms deck from their collection (still my favorite commander and never taken apart). My favorite part of EDH when first getting into it and still to this day was the constant "ooh, what is that card? what does that card do?" and seeing the Rube Goldberg machines that my friends are assembling with their decks. I can't recall all the boogeymen in my playgroup early on, I just distinctly remember hating going up against Yisan, the Wanderer Bard. Good times!
I got into Magic back when revised was released and I will always have a fondness for our classic battles between my Serra Angels and Crusades versus a friends Sengir Vampires and Bad Moons.
I looked at getting into edh in 2012, and then a buddy of mine who worked at my LGS said "fuck it". I was playing some standard and he walked over from behind the counter and checked a Heavenly Inferno precon at me and said "you're welcome". Now I have 10 edh decks
I learned about Symmetry Matrix today! Ordered one from the local LGS.
This was both good and amusing :)
We better get a stealing the segue supercut at the end of the year. These thefts fill me with so much joy
I have Symmetry Matrix in my Edgar deck and in my Purphoros deck that makes a lot of 1/1’s and it over performs every time I play it. It’s very underrated and slept on!
My original deck I built was a Zurgo Helmsmasher deck wayyy back in the day when my brother bought me the speed vs cunning dual deck... My most memorable win with that deck/a card I never play anymore is Shock!! The one red deal 2 damage to any target card.. I got off to a fast start and got my bro down to 2 HP, before he stabilized and completey shut me down (winter orb, tap locked by his Derevi deck) and I had no cards in hand. Then I top decked a Shock, and was able to do 2 damage to his face and get the win! :D it's been a very long time since I played Shock in any of my decks, but it was such a satisfying victory to get with it that one day
I started playing during Revised. My first commander was/is Brimaz, King of Oreskos. This deck still exists & I don't see myself pulling it apart. I've upgraded it over the years & it is surprisingly powerful.
Each game is a new story.
Totally agree.
Each deck is something to enjoy
Just realized commander was kinda always in my playgroup's soul: while teens, most of our decks "had to" have a legendary creature in the lead, and we loved multiplayer variants, Two Headed Giant and Emperor. Got into commander pretty smoothly.
Thanks so much for the shout-out Matt! This was a super-fun episode strolling down memory lane :)
Love how even when Joey played modern he played Living End haha
Nobody is surprise to learn his modern deck
The segue steal was especially juicy this time, with the helpless noise of protest from Joey.
They're no longer steals; they're a constant of Joey's life now.
I got into Commander when it was still only known as EDH. The MTG salvation reference really brings me back. That was the main forum I found where there was a brewing community for EDH decks.
In my local meta the boogie man by far was Primeval Titan. Every green deck had it and the moment it got cast, everyone raced to kill it, copy it, reanimate it, blink it. It just was the focal point of every game.
Got into Magic, Commander specifically, through Yugioh and Team APS's conversation with Tolarian Community College about the differences between them.
First Commander was Tergrid; loved her art specifically. Her ability was gravy. Still play her even though people hate her.
Great discussion as always, guys.
This episode just made me feel very happy and nostalgic. Thank you for reminding me why I love this format!
I feel like there's some merit in keeping yourself willing to sacrifice efficiency in Commander. I don't think you necessarily need PreEDH rules to force you to, just let yourself pick things more on flavor or on your own fun value.
Lol Matt, I have BOTH Godsire and Giant Adephage in my Atla Palani deck. So much fun to cheat them into play. Especially with haste enablers.
21:53
My playgroup used to buy the yearly precons. We would all agree on who gets which deck so that none of us got the same deck as another of us.
My beginnings were actually from Yugioh. As much as the arc wasn't good, I always loved the idea of a deckmaster. The sliver premium deck had just released, when I heard of EDH. Since I had a bunch of one-ofs, I built from that, with it being my first commander deck.
The first deck I built was mono black zombies with Erebos, God of the Dead as the commander built almost entirely out of draft chaff like Walking Corpse and Gnawing Zombie.
really enjoyed this episode a lot. i also started playing around revised. i played until about mercadian masques and only started playing again quite recently. i picked up some of the kaldheim precons for a friend for his birthday (one for him and one for me so we could play together), and now i have the bug. have a bunch of decks built now and playing every week at my FLGS. i even did a few drafts and pre-release events (and won! i got a foil Watery Grave from Unfinity and the new showcase Ragavan in the prize packs/boxtoppers). in the time between mercadian masques waaaay back when and rejoining in the last few years, i played a few competitive games like Android: Netrunner, so it's been fun having tournaments to be a little more competitive, but i also like playing a bit more casually for commander. i also play Pokemon competitively, and there's just sooooooo many cards in that game that are just not at all viable. everyone plays super meta decks and 'anti-meta' isn't really all that viable in pokemon at the moment. returning to MTG has been a nice change of pace.
i really love Greasefang, and i had a game recently where i drew Orzhov bounce land (and one other) in my starting hand, so i was able to bounce my first-turn land drop back to hand and oh no, had to discard this Reaver Titan! then turn 3, i have enough mana for my commander and start attacking for 10 (and 5 to everyone) with some great early game evasion. i did not win the game lol, but it was so fun!
I know I'm getting old when Mayael the Anima is part of a trip down memory lane. I remember loving the idea of the Esper and Naya shards as Shards of Alara block released
I think a large contributor to the low land counts in early decks was the old Partial Mulligan rules which allowed players to dig for enough lands fairly easy at the beginning of each game.
"No, it's 3 AM and I'm sleepy." - Chase :D
I remember when I had my old Vorel of the Hull Clade deck, I put Narcolepsy in purely to tap down my own Gilder Bairn so I could consistently use it's ability.
The amount of joy when Joey referenced RuPaul’s Drag Race has me SHOOK AND I LOVE IT
I have a Godsire (with the token) from learning to play magic around Alara block. I put it in my Ghired deck and while it may not be the most powerful thing the deck can do it's still pretty sweet when it happens. I also recently took a Giant Adephage out of that deck for an Utvara Hellkite 😂
I'm aware you guys already, and quite recently, made an episode on deck building for new players and you guys are amazing advocates for encouraging people to try out commander, but have you considered an episode where you have on a person you've introduced to commander and have a conversation with them about why it was they either started playing after that or why it was they didn't?
My first EDH deck was Adun Oakenshield. It pretty much just played sakura-tribe elder every turn until I cast something like tooth and nail or insurrection.
I also ran all basics and sac lands and this really dirty card call destructive flow. That card didn't make friends.
Regarding the OG boogeymen commanders. Arcum Dagsson was one for me. Also Jhoira of the Ghitu playing Eldrazi and huge boardwipes like Obliterate.
Arcum has always been one of my favorites haha
My first deck was Arcum, our FLGS's Boogeyman deck was Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary. it played plow under effects. Nightmare.
17:40 for me, it was "Azusa, Lost but Seeking"
2011 -2013 era
Uril, the Miststalker and Olivia Voldaren were the bogymen in my group . Every deck had Guild Signets , Howling Mine and/or Font of Mythos , Reliquary Tower and clones for a kill spell. If you had one Sensei's Divining Top and/ or Scroll Rack you used them. Card draw was everything because we weren't used to a 100 card deck at that time. I once won a 7 player game by out lasting everyone else and killing the final player with Shivan Gorge lol . I remember a friend of mine winning a game with Trade Secrets and Lab Man but for the most part infinite combos were rare at that time.
I have a 5 subject notebook dubbed the "Deckronomicon" that I started cataloging my decklists in 2007. I finished it last summer and have since started my new codex
One word: Banding. My favorite mechanic of all time. One day I'll make it work.
My first was Prossh. Still love that deck.
Wooaaaaa, someone else played highlander. That was the format I started with. 1000 card decks all blinged out with some random angels and cards with a history.
I remember fondly a game that I lost in an incredibly inane way. I was playing a 1v1 game, I was on some build of my old monoblack deck (I think the commander was Chainer at the time, but it had many iterations and I don't remember all of them), my friend was on Titania. I cast the card Sadistic Sacrament kicked, which let me search his deck for 15 cards and exile them. I removed every single threat in his 99 and was confident I would win from there. I kept killing Titania and she eventually wound up costing something like 19 mana but he just kept recasting her and getting back a land and getting a 5/3 and I just eventually died to elementals because I couldn't actually close out the game.
I played and won several games with Mayael's Aria in my old Ramos deck. Great card!
My first deck was a Niv Mizzet Reborn deck and it’s barely changed since I first put it together. It’s basically just all the cool 2-color spells I open in random packs that can slightly work together. I even have a rule where I can’t buy any cards specifically for it that makes it a deck upgrading challenge
My maelstrom wanderer was my first deck, I still have it. Most of the cards are VERY different but I think the basics and the consecrated sphinx are still from that first draft. Also did not start from a precon.
My first deck was Rafiq of the Many back in in 2011/2012 when EDH was just getting up and started at my local store, made a thraximundar/nicol bolas deck and Scion of the Ur-dragon deck soon after then Kaalia when she came out. All those decks are still around though changes have been made like ur dragon now commands scion and bolas the ravager commands the bolas deck, but rafiq is still there but i had to change his strategy a bit.
JOEY! I played mono blue tron back in the day and got someone locked in a Mindslaver lock, but it was so late in the round that it went to turns, and even though I could kill them by decking them out or something else damage I don't remember exactly, they ended up winning because Turns ran out. I no longer play mono blue tron
My most recent foible is embracing fun, but also looking more at cards in decks as more cohesive beings. Another thing is just embracing veggies, because we can't build decks that are fun to play if they're fundamentally broken in some way (either way too strong or are built wrong, usually either too few lands or not enough synergy among cards). Decks that have a shot at winning but aren't using the 'go-to' strategy are what I try to build now, but sometimes you just want to do the obvious thing, but for an example my Sliver deck is helmed by Reaper King. While that deck tutors a fair bit, I have decks that run essentially no tutoring, and that is part of why they are fun decks to play (that and they're usually loaded with infuriating interaction). I tend to reserve tutoring for combo decks that lack redundancy for some reason, or that I want to speed up, if I'm building a Casual deck I tend to run few or none. I guess that's another thing I've looked at, trying to build decks at given power levels, most of which have trended up over time I'd say, but it's harder to say if they're actually better compared to average decks as more people improve at this game/better cards get printed and I'm still running a potato in the Command Zone.
My first commander was Rafiq - aura bogles(hexproof tribal?) When I went to my local card shop for the first time with my friend, in our first game, I played a turn 1 Slippery Bogle. My friend's immediate response was something like this, "Oh shit, the game's almost over guys." There was much visible confusion around us, but we continued, nonetheless. On turn 5 or 6, I commented, "I can almost kill someone..." The confusion from earlier switched to sudden fear around the table. I ended up not quite winning that game, but it made for some fun memories of how far I've come to general deckbuilding.
Finally someone pays attention to Symmetry Matrix! It's sooo good. I run it in a 3 mana Krenko deck. Drawing a handful of cards every turn in red? Don't mind if do...
I've been playing EDH for about a decade. Most of these commanders I've either played or played against. Those were some good times.
I also remember sharuum and stuff being released when I was new to EDH.
My original "boogey man" that I actually played was Jhoira of the Ghitu. Suspend obliterate and then a few fatties afterward, and just watch all opponents sigh.
That was my first deck! I loved it so much. My playgroup on the other hand, not so much. Lol
@@saidinstouch2186 Good times!
39:00 I'm surprised that Dana, of all people, didn't realize that Snuff Out existed back when he though Murder was the best black removal spell of all time. It wasn't even ten bucks yet!
Just noticed Nezumi graverobber is a Rogue that flips into a wizard. Gonna put it in my party deck. I know it's bad. I just love it so I've been looking for excuses to put one somewhere
Thanks for making me look at that card again.
I first heard about magic in 98/99 when my cousin started playing. However i didnt start till 2004. Then around 06-08 I would read "good in EDH" on future set speculation threads on wizard/MTG Salvation. Finally 2011 I was introduced to EDH by a friend in college with my First commander being Keaverk the Merciless and first precon Riku of two Reflections.
I mean when i was in my young deck building days. I put gifts ungiven in my Bruna Light of Alabaster deck. Played it several times before finally i played it in my actual play group and someone was like “Ummm… Travis!? You know thats banned right?” And just me looking completely embarrassed
I had one win with Mayael’s Aria trigger. I was playing a game of commander in the cafe area of a Boarders book store. I had played a Retaliator Griffin and one of my opponents put a pacifism on it. Someone swung in for a bunch of damage at me and I realized I could win by not blocking anything. They passed the turn and realized their mistake
Less than a minute in and I've already cracked up. "Podcast" is the best dad joke I've ever heard.😂
Still on that Animar Soul of Elements deck
hi guys i’m just finishing this video & decided to post something
so like Matt i also had a Mayael deck my wincon was craterhoof/avenger combo but as Dana was talking about board wipes i ran two winds of abandon & hallowed burial someone asked “why are you running hallowed burial” my thought was mayael’s ability really wouldn’t work with my creatures in the grave so that’s a perfect fit for her
that’s all i have say good episode thanks
"Deeply Imperfect." That's how I will describe myself as well as my decks going forward.
giant adephage was the menace last week at our table 😂
Yeah about Return to Ravinica was the turning point for commander being niche to starting to grow. My first set of standard decks were rotating, I had Grand Architect and Glissa Pod and I want to keep playing that kind of deck. So I combined the two in to my Glissa, the traitor deck. I also built birthing pod in modern and UTron (that deck with the mindslaver) eventually.
Err... *quietly adds more lands to his deck*
Yeah, there seemed to be far more personality to your decks back then, I once asked if someone in my playgroup wanted to borrow my deck and they said it was too much a me deck that it would be uncomfortable for them to play it. I had decklists in excel documents saved on an old work laptop.
So it's convoluted but I quite frequently can put myself in position to win with mayeals aria, mossbridge troll and colossus of akros, tap the colossus at the untap step to power up the troll just before upkeep
17:22 so your story about Utvara hellkite reminds me about one of my like crazy price jumps The very first deck I had was a mimioplasm and I had a rise of the dark realms promo from the very first pre-release that I attended and I just threw it in the deck cuz I was like oh yeah this part is really good it's like $0.50 and then when I was looking to rebuild that deck out of nostalgia and I saw that rise of the dark realms was $25 I was a little upset cuz I had ended up trading it while it was still like a dollar or two
I remember buying Revised and Fallen Empires.
i've won with Mayael's Aria. in an enchantress deck. Enduring Ideal and Ancestral Mask, mostly.
I actually gotta step in to defend Nezumi Graverobber's honor here!
Graverobber is an incredible card to pass holding mana up with. It's easy to deploy late game, and the ability doesn't cost tons so it can slip in along with a counterspell or another ability. 2 mana instant speed repeatable argeted graveyard hate! If an opponent tries to Reanimate you can snipe that card from under them, if Kess bins an Expropriate you can take it on her upkeep. Eternal Witness trigger? Hah.
It's not an explosive card nor is it oppressive but that's exactly what makes it so strong. Rest in Peace or Planar Void WILL get you hated out, but Nezumi Graverobber's threat can alter your opponent's behavior or trip them up and they're rarely going to spend a removal spell on it until you've gotten some value. Then if you get a non-threatening turn cycle you can start dumping mana into it to get to that flip, and once you do you can instant speed reanimate anyone's creatures for 5 mana.
It's not an auto-include by any measure, and it can definitely be outclassed in explosive lists but in my grindier incremental value reanimator it's a card that I always underestimate until it hits the table where I've never found it not to overperform. I love that dirty rat!
budget a quest for the jank lord style deck for my mom with symmetry matrix in it. she out drew the whole table with it. fantastic card.
I used to run Orb of Dreams as a counter to Prossh and Khaalia, who were the big bads back when I got into EDH. Also, most of the cards Dana mentioned are still in a Naya- Deck I take out if there's someone new getting into Commander. Getting killed by a big dumb thing isn't that intricate and easy enough to understand.
my story is similar to Joeys except instead of Mimeoplasm I fell in love with Ghave
My wife runs Godsire in her Mayael deck and let me tell you, it still can be a threat of a card.
Mayael's Aria in a Ramos deck. Good clean living.
I started collecting again 3 months ago (still have all my cards from 1995 to 2005 era). I've built 3 commander decks and have no one to play 🙁 with because everyone I know my age doesn't play or thinks its just for kids or its stupid. Makes me sound old, i'm only 35 😅. I'm gonna check out commander night at my lgs, hopefully find people to chill and play with.
Something important to point out about the low lands 10 years ago is that partial mulligans were a thing so it sounds a lot worse than it actually was
Simic ascendancy in pir and toothy
I get the theft thing. I got a binder of cards stolen in school, a set that was probably worth a thousand dollars - insofar as the singles market even existed at the time, it wouldn’t have gone for that to be realistic. I try not to think about it since those cards would be worth a satirical amount now - each of the Gaea’s Cradles alone apparently go for nearly that much again. It’s just especially annoying because of the 20-30 cards that have become absolute powerhouses keep coming up as ultra-powerful options as I build that I couldn’t possibly justify getting now, and frustrating me all over again.
I shouldn’t complain too much. Realistically there’s no way I’d have not spent much more than they went up in value, and occasionally I dive into the junk box and find a half-dozen five or ten dollar cards so it still pays for my new decks.
I mighta put together a boogieman deck back in the day. I loved combo decks, the more convoluted, the better. I mighta trimmed the combos down two a pile of 2 card combos with redundancies...I had to pull it apart to keep friends.
I think the too few lands argument doesnt take into account the partial paris.
I remember how happy/smart i felt finding a common whitemane lion in my bulk box for my karametra deck. Before the edhrec data could guide me.
Of course Joey played living end in modern lol
MIMEOPLASM
I first got into commander cause I was trying to find a real format that was cheap to get into, and seeing that you could just buy a precon and play, convinced my friend to get into it too. My first Commander deck was Oloro, because I opened a Sorin, Grim Nemesis at the Shadows prerelease, and I really wanted to play it. So after looking at old precons and after realizing 2 of the 4 precons that could play it were super expensive as they were Kaalia and Ghave in 2016, and not wanting to get a 2 color enchantment deck, I bought Oloro. This was also just before commander 2016 released.
I started in 1995 when things like formats didn't even exist. Then came the distinction between Type I and Type II. We rarely had tournaments but played a lot of free- for- all multiplayer games. I built my first 100- card Highlander deck in 1998, it was awful. After the store closed I took a break until 2013 when I returned to casual and Standard.
I started Commander just short before the pandemic, then paper Standard died around here anyway. No idea if it ever recovered. Now I play nothing but Commander and the occasional draft.
My first Commander decks were Merieke, Sevinne, Otrimi and Lathliss. Merieke was (and still is) unfun, Sevinne went through a million iterations before I liked it, Otrimi and Lathliss almost built themselves.
With a sol ring in play my mate drew his next card and told me he had just drawn sol ring. Now we just joke about how many sol rings are in his new decks.
Symmetry Matrix would go well in Urtet as well 🤔.
i was playing a pyromancers ascension in my comander deck at the start
If you’ve opened Alpha, Beta, Unlimited and Reviseed… in the early 90’s… OG
I won a game with Mayael’s Aria once!!!!
I used to use Git to track my decklists before Moxfield :-P
Omg that witchcraft joke was the. Eat one yet