What's Faster Than Aero?! | New Zipp 404 Firecrest First Look
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 21. 07. 2024
- Zipp have lead the charge when it comes to aero bike wheels in recent years, but their latest release isn't all about aerodynamic gains. We've all heard it said that 'aero is everything', but the latest research is trending in a new direction - aero is still a big part of the picture, but it's not the ultimate player in the search for speed! Si Richardson has taken a first look at the brand new Zipp 404 Firecrest wheels to find out what they're all about.
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Leave us a comment below! - Sport
What do you think of the new Zipp 404 Firecrest wheels? Let us know đ
They are basically the new 404 NSW at a much cheaper price, which is great. Hookless however isnât for me, for road. Too limited tire choice and only 70PSI.
Overpriced marketing BS with crappy hubs if I'm being honest... Give me a set of campags any day đ
Gimme a pair and I will let you know ;)
Tbh I think prices on bike components must come down.
I like seeing tech like this coming out. The wheels are not much les cost than the RRP of my bike, so I won't be getting them now.
However I will be grateful to the early adopters who do as they will allow the production costs to drop more and me to get the tech in years to come.
Nothing on my bike was cutting edge when I got it, but years before the discs, STIs, carbon forks etc. were hugely expensive tech. Being a tight wad I got the bike when the price was slammed on promotion and fell within the cycle to work budget, so I actually paid 1/3 it's orignial value to have something that a decade or so before would have been hugely expensive.
Next time I am looking at a new bike on the cycle to work plan maybe I will get wheels like these on it. If I do I will be grateful to those who ignored the pricetag now.
Editting was just altering some dreadful spelling. Typing while eating, demostrates multi tasking is a good way of doing several things wrong at once.
@Aramintai I will be honest with you, I don't know which will be best for me. Those I have on the bike are simply aliminium, fairly light, not aero and work with clinchers and discs. As a year round rider the last part was key and I went for the best overall bike for the cash.
Next time I will do the same so as you say it probably won't have these wheels on it but maybe something inspired by these and the others you mention.
By the time I get anything like them they will be on bikes in the cycle to work budget. I expect my current one to last at least 5 more years yet.
Love these videos l, but sometimes they feel like infomercials, I would love them to be more honest, pros and cons, price, other brand comparison. More honest reviews.
They don't do reviews, but the channel is indeed built on "advertorial" content. If they feel like informercials, it's because they are.
@@TapCat It wasn't so bad years ago, back in the day of Matt and long before Alex came along.
@45 fottuto stronzo Too much advertising, too little cool stuff in my opinion. Lately they've been recycling a lot of old topics they've already covered too. Advertising is fine, but there needs to be some balance.
I mean it literally says âincludes paid contentâ as you launch the video and thereâs a watermark saying âADâ on the preview image. Surely the infomercial style is not a surprise!
It is an infomercial.
Nice and everything but the profit margin is so high here....
Iam pretty sure the owner of the company is on his yacht right now enjoying this video.
These are kinda budget in the mad world of carbon wheelsets.
You guys did a great job in this video regarding the motorbike noise. I noticed you filmed going downhill (probably so you wouldn't need to hit the throttle as much, thus producing the loud noise). It seemed to work- all I could hear was the beautiful sound of tires on pavement.
price made me laugh out loud. and it's framed like its a bargain. crazy stuff :D
It's so cheap, you can buy a used car with them or an entire new Shimano 105 bike.
Sounds like broke people problems.. get a better paying career and don't have kids.
@@aliancemd A used car for $1,900?
âŠIâm sure that will do well.
Especially when you can get much better wheels for the money... zipp unfortunately fell victim to the usual sram tactic of spend more on marketing than engineering, sram is the bose of the bike industry
@@RacksonRacksonRibss $2K car will still give you more than 4 watts("if you are a big guy, going at 40kph").
Just move that elbow slightly closer to you, there you go, saved yourself $2K on something you didn't really need.
Hi GCN, I have the same bike. Iâm curious of what the weight of the bike after installing the wheels.
Note: This channel really helped me in my cycling journey. Though my reason started for health reasons and now Iâm loving it, life changer. THANK YOU!
$1900 to save 4 watts..... surely the weight loss from your wallet would equal another 4 watts...
My pro tip is to always pee before you ride/race a decent piss of 400ml will save you more than 4 watts and it's free!
Have the wheels and have a pee - save 8 watts!
@@MonkeyKing1969 true... but only one of those is a few weeks wages đ€Ł
To save 4W on the previous 404s. They save significantly more compared to standard aluminum wheels. Not that I care as I gave up racing a while ago.
4 watts... if riding at ?? Watts?
Saves 4 watts when riding at 600 watts or something is meaningless to us mortals
@@andrewschietzsch5398 your right. I hadn't pre conditioned my statement but I was implying that most of us are already using decent carbon rims so I dont see the advancement made here truly revolutionary or worth the hype/cost. There are much cheaper ways to save 4 watts if you already have the previous edition wheels
I can eat an Aero in approx 47 seconds, but give me a Milky Bar & I can have that finished in a Zipp at 40.4 seconds
You a legend đđż
I read this in too much of a hurry first time and saw you eat a Zippo in 40.4 seconds. I was about to applaud a fellow lunatic, and still will but for humour rather than eating metal.
@@KermitFrogThe I'd only eat a Zippo if I was on a diet, cus it would be a lighter snack
@@blackcyclist Thank you for lighting up my day.
I know this is a rubbish response compared to yours, but it was the best I could think of.
have you guys ever thought of trying to filter out the golf cart motor from the audio? I know Audacity has a background noise filter included, surely the pro software that I imagine you guys are using has something that works even better
It's not a golf cart, we use motos which are quite a lot more noisy sadly - but it is something we hope to improve!
@@gcn Might take a look at the "Zero" electric motorcycles, should be much more quiet!
@@QuotelabContent Yeah that sounds like a brilliant idea! and also using IC engines on a bike channel is still a bit odd. just go full electric!
@@Rindertvdt range
@@alg3n320 spare batteries and take the bike to the shoot in a van. You can get ones that already do 280 miles range buy a spare battery and double that you're looking at 500 miles comfortably. How many shoots are further than that. Range shouldn't be an excuse these days for a company with the resources of GCNs parent company. I'm certain that they could buy a system that'd handle the job.
Love cylcling videos just what I need to get it going the blood I love it. I always watch these before I go out and get my body moving. I always watch one of these, and then put up my heavy playlist like Delta Parole, Three Days Grace, System and then I just go haaaaard!!!! Tactic hasnt let me down yet.
The hell with the wheels, that Orbea is absolutely gorgeous
Careful dont jizz yourself... it's just a bike.
This will be my next set of wheels, had a few sets to decide but zipp got me on the lifetime warranty.
With climing and wind gusts in mind. Would you upgrade from 30mm climbing (entry-level )carbon wheels to a 303 and 404 combo wheelset? or just 404s and keep the 30 mm wheels for bad weather? Im on a 2016 XSMALL TCR Advanced SL with rim brakes.
Not much can improve GCN videos, but one thing could actually make a big difference: Electric motorbike as camera platform.
My next set of wheels will be Winspace Hyper. Zipp value for $$ just isn't there anymore.
Durianrider seal of approval :)
Zipp employees are paid better than Winspace
Youâll be waiting a long time for a set of Hypers. Iâd get your order in now.
Are these compatible also with none tubeless ("regular") tires?
Fast is the new aero? Wtf? Re-read that statement and let it sink for a minute or two đ
the wheels are less aero than previous, but faster. seems like an accurate statement.
03:48
any advice? if i need to wrap a new tubeless rim tape
should i wrap over up the corner?
thank you~
you don't have to, as long as the tape covers enough of the rim bed to touch both tire beads
"Why fast is the new aero" I had a stroke reading that, what??
GCN: "What's Faster Than Aero?"
Ferrari: "EPO." đ
Epo on flexible frames still beats aero on stiff frames. Go figure
You should add a speed indicator on the side when showing clips of riding the wheels, Gives us a better idea of how the wheels are I think
With hookless rims they just found a way to make the wheels cheaper, but still selling them way to expensive...hahahađ
Broke people problems đ€Ł
@@LCNismo or just buy from a competitor
If they are selling, that would suggest they are not "too expensive." Perhaps, too expensive for you, but not too expensive
@@wanderingjuniper that's what I do! Just bought some Winspace Hyper Wheels
@@j.k2869 enjoy the 2 year warranty instead of lifetime warranty tho kekw
$1900âŠ.heavy, sails, tubelessâŠhmmmmâŠ.no. But nice footage! Simon, you were putting some power into those pedals. Getting ready for another GCN competition?
orange bike and clothing - +1 for speed! You looks cool, feel yourself cool and want to ride cool!
On the SRAM website there is a Zipp 404 Firecrest Carbon tubeless and a Zipp 404 Firecrest tubeless. What is the difference? The carbon one lists the price at 1800. The non carbon? Says it is 1400. How are people figuring out which one they are getting?
I love a video with Si!
When Si says pee instead of rho. *Oliver Bridgewood sad face*
@M S Ah man! I actually do know my Greek alphabet too. Lost a year of my young life to studying Ancient Greek. What a waste of time that was, clearly!
Speaking of Greek letters...we can use the letter Psi 'Κ' when referring to the best cyclist, on GCN, Si Richardson
I was literally about to mention that đđ€Ł
@@simonrichardson5259 I hear you -- I actually lost my entire 4-year college career studying Ancient Greek. That was 40 years ago, and it's like it's never happened. Sigh . . . .
We need a deep-dive into that formula!
I know a little, it's a sum of a few force equations. 1/2.p.v^2, is a part of bernoulli's equation (usually includes +pgh and +pressure, but h stands for head height, in this case, 0), cd is the coefficient of drag (how efficient you are in a fluid), A is the frontal bluff body area, the m.g.sin(theta) is from newtons laws on an incline, crr mg cos(theta) is your rolling resistance (on an incline), Pabs usually indicates absolute pressure. a(m+1/r^2) isn't leaping out at me as anything obvious - it looks like it may have been a derivation of rolling wheel kinetics? But it reduces to am + a/r^2, which is just... Force + something really close to angular velocity. Anyway it's 1am I should be asleep. I might cme back to this if someone else hasn't looked at it.
Ollie, bring it on!
What delights me the most is that I can actually believe these wheels are better. Thanks GCN for a down to earth explanation and review. It's all too common that new products are marketed with fancy buzzwords and unintelligible benefits.
I'm sorry, i find myself looking at that Orbea more than the Zipps
yeah sram stuff has never impressed me either
The reason I would go not as deep that you didn't hit I believe is sidewinds. but the fact that like a bike they are getting an all-a-rounder that is pretty cool...my bike is the same and my riding is too and I am not going to have a stable of bikes (well I have 3) and wheelsets...ahh today I am climbing, ah...flat TT, ooh...gravely and that each is a different bike/wheelset. The 28s looked great in the vid on this, new wheels and SPD Assioma and I am "set" till I can make the Di2 change. And 4 watts, marginal yes but not bad there are plenty of more sketchy $/w offers out there
Haha, for a second there I thought you said a pair of wheels was ÂŁ1,600!
No mention of the hubs? And whatâs the max rider weight?
Unfortunate name; no matter how badly you want them, you'll never be able to find them.
(Web dev cyclist joke.)
You can use the menu above to get back on track or follow this link to the home page
I always make that joke whenever I see a 404 number anywhere
404 Humor Not Found
@@Darsithis Lmao I thought it was about the Firecrest part
Damn it, you got there first! HTTP 404, Wheels Not Found
Great video, feel you guys donât make as many of these sorts of videos as you use to⊠seems to be a lot more comical non-serious content coming out, and this video is precisely why I subscribe! More please đđ»đ
Steve Hed would've been laughing at this video đ
Are aluminium deep wheels be as effective as carbon deep wheels?
I cant decide between these and the 303 Firecrest. They appear to be the same price so its hard to see which one is better. Is more Aero better than lightweight and wider internal rim width? Zipp themselves tend to suggest better (less) rolling resistance and better vibration absorption can be more important to overall speed than pure aero design? - Appreciate peoples serious comments/suggestions! :)
because the 404s are deeper section rims, 404s are more aero than 303s...so what should really play a part is the terrain in which you ride & your weight.
Since the 404s are deeper & more aero, you will go faster going downhills, on flats and anytime you're riding at speeds greater than 35 kmh.
303s will have the advantage only when climbing up hills & deep climbs because they're a hair lighter than 404s....but again, 404s can make up that disadvantage when going down the very hill climbed or on flats if you have more flat terrain than you do climbs.
The last thing to consider is your weight. With the 404s being deeper section rims, they can have a higher chance of getting caught in crosswinds which is ONLY a factor apparently depending on your weight. I just got a pair of these ZIPP 404 Firecrest last week & rode the for the first time 2 days ago on a very windy day and I felt no effect of the winds on my wheels whatsoever unlike what other people claim about deeper section wheels. But then again, unlike many cyclist who are very skinny; I'm 6 foot 2 inches tall & weigh 220 lbs or 99.79 kg
Forget the wheels can I have the frame set?
Im more intrested in the Speedplay Powrlink Zeros on the bike?
Heads up Most aero setup for 404/454 Hookless is 25mm Goodyear Eagle F1 Supersport
I'll stick to my Meilensteins thanks. ~400g lighter, and I got them 2nd hand for a lot less than these Zipps and I don't have to run disc brakes or tubeless tyresđ€
Nice Dutch orange color!
Funny that orbea started with a shimano 105 groupset..now it has a sram one for their zipp wheel line..haha
Some brands reduce vibration other ones increase it...but all in the name of pleasure
Did anyone else see the Speedplay Powrlink pedals on the Orbea at around 1:11?
@45 fottuto stronzo itâs actually an important marker for the launch. A problem with technology like power meters is scale-ability. Can you get enough of the parts you need to make enough product to turn a profit? If Wahoo are letting GCN demo the pedal, itâs a good bet that they have solved the scale-ability issue.
What Water Bottle holder is on the Orange Bike?
Luv the intro, it's very top gear-ish. Which is a good thing. For me at least
I'm looking at getting hookless rims(not these) if I get a puncture can I put an inner tube in my tubless tyre to get back home, or is it tubeless only, thanks
I've been running ENVE AR4.5 hookless rims for a few years now. You can absolutely run tubes. You just have to have a compatible tubeless tire, tube or not. It has to do with the type of tire bead. Actually running them tubeless is up to you.
@@reu13 hours looking on Internet forums, and got an answer from CZcams! thanks so much mate!
hi. does it work with clincher tires?
Would pick Bora WTO instead of those any day. Cheaper, with superior hubs and more cool looks. Although subjective, the new Zipp logo is just poor. Old ones looked good.
Exactly! Better in any objective way, but too many people fall for marketing hype
I read "WHY FAST IS THE NEW AERO" on the thumbnail
Which is exactly what they meant.
In the 2000s, the Next gen wheel just had to be lighter and lighter to be better.
Then around 2012, the next gen wheel had to be more aero to be considered better.
ZIPP recons that neither on its own is superior, all a wheel has to be is faster (ie more efficient).
They claim their new wheel is faster without being more aero, by offering lower rolling resistance and being lighter, making it more efficient in general.
So instead of âmore aeroâ, itâs now about âfasterâ, hence âfast is the new aeroâ.
@@LarsRR I won't be surprised if they will also start saying Aero is the new fast. Or faster is the new fast lol đ€Ł
@@sepg5084 đ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
What model is that Orbea?
I like the tech but for my area a 50 mm deep rim can nearly push you off the roads some days. That's why I choose no deeper than 35mm or flat section carbon wheels like a Campagnolo Hyperon Ultra. It's not uncommon to have 20 mph to 40 mph winds in the hiills and mountain passes which can have brutal sidewinds that hit you when your taking a high speed corner. Very near pushed me off the road more than once. I learned only run 50mm rims on calm days.
What Orbea bike model is this on?
I rather run what I can afford to replace, cos you guys ain't sponsoring me
Prime Attequer and Hunt Aero aluminum wheels match these for weight and are only a few hundred bucks. At $1900 you could buy quite a decent carbon aero bike or buy your friends or family a couple of nice beginner bikes. The actual gains will be just a second or two here and there. Exciting as the technology is, the price tag has to put a bottleneck on the review.
I really miss the days where GCN was proper cycling advice and chat instead of just product placement for the highest bidder
What are they like with a cross wind.
Si is far and away my favourite presenter
Hi GCN...what model orbea in this video you used?
Orca OMX in frameset, or LTD if its fully built
@@CtFshd1812 i thought its was OMR
@@fiart1175 oh right, they mentioned in the streetfighter build, it is an OMR
I'd love an explanation of the equation at 2:47. Most of the terms I can figure out, but some such as Crr have me stumped.
The rolling resistance coefficient ?
@@ParMonts8ParVaux Good call. And I think "I" is the moment of inertia of the wheel. Thoughts on Pabs?
@@se7enTse7en To translate so far: Power at the crank = velocity of bike/coefficient of loss * (air resistance of wheel + force from road angle + rolling resistance + Pabs/Vb + force from non-gravity acceleration).
Another thought, maybe P = Pabsorbed and it equals power at the crank minus power at the hub so it's drivetrain efficiency. Though then there wouldn't be any hub efficiency term. So maybe it's total power absorbed and it's not directly measured?
I'm guessing Closs is the catch-all term for vibration losses that are otherwise hard to quantify?
I also find it interesting that air resistance is a single term, it doesn't separate velocity and angular velocity.
Final thought: is the system being considered the wheel alone or the whole bike? For a(m + I/r2), a = acceleration, I/r2 = moment of inertia / radius squared = mass of wheel, what mass does 'm' refer to?
@@se7enTse7en Good point! I missed the straight-forward acceleration. So it looks like the equation specifically addresses one rear wheel.
Can you do some light gravel rides on these wheels?
Well that's a nice smooth road. How comfortable the bike is doesn't matter.
What do I do when I flat? Can't use spare tube on hookless...
Call uber with spacious trunk :)
Honest question: Why not? The tube doesn't use the hooks(?); the TL tire would still grasp the rim. Secondly, there are also those Vittoria Airliner "pool noodle" things, but you might be giving a little of your weight savings back.
@@DEAR7340 The tubeless tire does not grasp the hookless rim. Hookless say use no tubes because they can cause the tire to come off. It's a major problem with hookless rims. A bad cut in the tire will leave you stranded unless there's a needle and thread in your patch kit. It's disappointing because it sounds like a development that benefits the manufacturers because it's cheaper and easier to make - and has some benefits to the rider like aero tire-rim seams and better impact resistance - but sounds like a case where they're taking our money for goods with obvious issues. The marketing feels devious to me.
More affordable still meaning bloody expensive :)
so quick!
Naisu !
what's up alien
Insane wheel the best of the best !!!
Well scripted, interesting A roll, well shot B roll, looks like it took more than 5 minutes to shoot and edit. Please make all the GCN videos as good as this one :) Even if it means there are less.
How come nobody is talking about that gorgeous orange Orca?
nice Zipp commercial, GNC!!
I enjoy all the content that comes from GNC. It's factual and it's entertaining. But no matter what the industry comes up with if your competitor has the same product you're all back to even again. But I deathly like the way the new bikes look
Bullocks⊠this was an advertâŠ. plus multiple adverts before, during, & after!
Don't know: A new Shimano 105 bike or 4 watts(at 40kph and I have to put on some weight)...
A set of wheels that cost more than both my road and gravel bikes combined. Doubt I'd be finding them second hand for a bargain.... I'll get more than 4w tucking my elbows in thank-you very much!
I am gutted. I have some Zipp 404's, but now I want the new version
I'll save the same amount of watts if I take a pee before a ride and at the cafe stop. It's also a lot cheaper and more comfortable ;-)
Ok...the videography in this video is absolutely badass
tour velocity wheels factory, talk about durable ebike wheelsets, brake pads. have ollie invent a single sided chain so we can have 24 speed cassettes
Sorry.... but there's no way I'm spending thousands on wheels if you're not willing to release wind tunnel data.
4 watts from the previous version, at 40 kph is decent.
Pinarello always did so with the Dogma.
I laugh when I see dimpled zipp wheels covered in stickers which reduce the dimples!!
4 Watts for an 85kg body mass. How many Watts do I save by being a 65kg body mass on affordable wheels?
deeper section wheels will still be faster, at speeds over 40km/h aero might as well be everything
is it possible to mount a 25?
Yes, you can check the compatible tires at the zipp website.
Good point, aero bikes have basically displaced other bikes so just calling it a fast bike just means aero now days đ
Great wheels. Love them
Great wheels, now I just need to find the money ...
Nope, just ride a few more miles and visit the drop shop. I'm saving up for a set of 808s. ;)
Current price in US higher than my new bike.
This wheel costs more than I paid foe my summer bike and almost three times as much as I paid for my winter bike.
Who determined that they were the benchmark for aerodynamics? Independent tests show it is middle of the road.
Pls upload at 4k 60FPS
Where does that fuss about aero come from? I think from manufactures. Most of the air resistance comes from the rider, not from the bike. Is it worth it to spend few thousand of dollars or euros more, just to save a few watts?
No.
#AskGCN, Hello GCN presenters, a big fan of the channel but i had a request for GCN, I am from India, and there are many many followers of GCN in India, but there is still a lot of cycling not explored in India, so can GCN actually visit India for any cycling trip as there is alot of beautiful road all around the country, I hope this is considered and this will seriously bring in alot of people to the sports. Thank in advance
let's have ollie do a "gcn nerd" breakdown of the equation!
Shallower wheels are much more stable and more fun to ride in crosswinds. I don't see the benefit of deep rims, just get wheels with less spokes. Also with disc breaks you need more spokes making them less aero than a rim brake counter part would be.
I just got these ZIPP 404 Firecrest wheels the other week; put them on my Trek Madone & took them out for a ride for the very first time 2 days ago. Despite it being very windy outside at the time, crosswinds were not a factor whatsoever if that's deterring anyone from getting these wheels. I felt zero impact from the winds pushing my wheels any which way. Now just a disclaimer, unlike most cyclist, I'm not a toothpick. I'm 6'2" 220 lbs or 99.79 kg.
Iâm between these or the 303 on my dogma f- struggling to decide. Donât do too much climbing and similar size to yourself. Are you enjoying the 404?
@@markmcconnochie4539 It's been 3 weeks now with them & I absolutely love my 404 Firecrest. And all of their ads about the Firecrest design with the dimples preventing crosswind was true. I have set PRs with almost every ride so far. Having been off the bike for 4 months previous, on just my second ride back I found myself increasing my max speed by over 5 kmh / 3 mph. I do a lot of climbing where I live in Texas; but they don't weigh me down at all. But when I am on the flats or downhill; I feel like a beast. They're perfectly stiff and handle extremely well on corners
I Ollie still talking to Si? As Si said "aero isn't everything". Maybe someone should ask GCN Tech, what the hell the equation means.
If I can ride consistently close to 40kph then Iâll treat myself until then my old wheels will do.