Adam Duvall's Passing Runners - When a Home Run Becomes a Long Single (Teachable)
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- čas přidán 22. 09. 2021
- When 1B Umpire Sam Holbrook ruled Braves batter Adam Duvall out for passing R1 Austin Riley during a HR, it reminded tmac of Robin Ventura's grand slam single in the 1999 NLCS. Article: www.closecallsports.com/2021/...
Official Baseball Rule 5.09(b)(9)-whether in the rulebook's 1999 edition or in 2021-states that a runner is out when they pass a preceding runner before such runner is out and may be deemed to have passed a preceding/lead runner based on their actions OR the actions of a preceding runner.
What that means is that it doesn't matter who is at "fault"-whether Duvall passed Riley or Riley's running backward caused the passing, the rulebook treats the play the same way: the trailing runner (Duvall) is out.
Thus, take the home run off the board, credit Duvall with a single, and allow all other runners to complete their base awards to home plate. Had there been two out when Duvall passed Riley, this would become a time play. - Sport
Great content and great teaching. Umpires aren’t fans. Sam Holbrook doesn’t care if a home run is negated. Sam Holbrook cares about bring a competent arbiter. And getting play off assignments.
thanks for posting
Question - had there been 2 out and if the runner from 3rd had not touched home before the passing occurred, would there have been no run scored? If so, which umpire makes the timing call?
"Ideally" plate umpire would line it up, that'd be the best angle. However, runners passing during a HR is so unusual and out of the ordinary it'd be tougher to be ready for it I'd surmise. Nonetheless, solid communication (looks like Holbrook called passing right away) should help greatly. Thankfully passing runners is reviewable.
The other two runners weren't out though so they got to score right? So Duvall got two RBI?
Dalton Jones, Detroit, 1968.
Shame there isn't an actual view of the runners crossing. There's one shot with them in the frame, but it's not clear that they passed.
I agree. 2:37 is the best look at it we have, and there it seems like Duvall never actually passes Riley
Question - Assuming this play does not include a HR, how would the umpire make this call without confusing runners/ fielders? Are there any verbal or motions besides out that we need to communicate to the players and coaches?
Point at the passing runner and declare "That's passing! You, (name if known), you're out". Keep on pointing at the runner who is out. Hopefully, there will be enough separation between the runners that it is obvious who is being pointed at. This is easier in larger crews. Because you can be closer and have less confusion as to who you are pointing at.
On top of what Garrett said, you can also swing your arms over one another with pointed fingers. I have only made a passing call once, and I stuck with the point and declare during the action, and then after things settled used the arm over arm motion to reiterate that I called a runner for passing.
Even with perfect mechanics you're probably going to get a coach coming out to ask about it at lower levels anyway, so be ready to explain.
Jose Canseco won't live this down even when he's dead. 2:16
Baserunners need to be aware of other baserunners in front of them and vice versa.
Baseball fundamentals
Worst Vin Scully ever
Lol it's not the umpires responsibility to make a call in a timely and fair manner either apparently. Should be the nfl way. Make a call then sort it out after. Dont just stand their and go uh well maybe..... o no it's a home run. Jesus why cant mlb officials be held to a better standard than the average guy in a bar.
Bolth umpires made the correct call. The one umpire was facing the outfield looking for the catch home run ect which was his responsibility. The second umpire on the infield was looking for base touches at first and second as well as passing his responsibility he made the call that he was responsible for in this situation. Just like the first umpire made the call he was responsible for it is not a homerun UNTIL all the bases are legally touched.
As a player, this is a weird call where I understand the umpires delaying their call. They want to be 100% correct. As messy as this is, the mess comes from baserunners. We’re responsible to be watching the runners in front of us, even on HR. If the ump were to make a quick HR call (because the fielder didn’t look like they had it) only to have a player pop up with the ball and throw to second turning the play into 2/3 outs, the umpires would have created the mess with the quick (incorrect) call. I have sympathy for those involved, but this one is entirely on the players and coaches.
So your take is that the rule exsist so it is ok. That is so stupid. So with this logic if there is any scenario where a ball goes over the fence or into foul territory the play is dead EXCEPT for a home run? That makes absolutely no sense. If a ball goes foul or over a fence but in foul territory the play is dead and you can dance around give someone a hug or go talk to your gf because THE BALL IS DEAD. How is that any different from whenever it goes over the fence fair? The rule is absolutely stupid and contradictory to other rules in the sport and you never thought to bring that up? Your take on this is that yeah they followed the rules so it's ok.
So you are complaining about this video coming to the conclusion that the rule was enforced correctly...
But you also agree that it was called correctly...
What would you like umpires to do, make up rules on the fly?
If a fielder catches a foul fly ball and then falls into the stands, the runners don't get to refuse to tag up because the ball is dead. They must still tag up or they'll be called out. So your assertion is wrong.
It doesn't matter that the ball is dead. Runners must run the bases legally. You should go watch soccer because you know nothing about baseball.
I actually hate this call on a HR. The rule should be if a runner passes and touches the next base. Clearly they corrected the "passing" before anything relevant happened, but of course, the old timers on here will disagree
The "old timers" you mention will disagree because they know the rules.
I get that it's a rule, and rules need to be enforced. But, damn, that's just a dumb one. If the ball were in play, I totally get it, but a HR? come on, man.
Why should rules be broken at any time? From the start of baseball you learn not to pass a runner in front of you.
@@63076topher I never said rules should be broken. In my opinion, if it is a HR, then there should not be a rule involving passing runners and such. Kind of a moot point.
@@Briansgate It is not a home run until all bases are legally touched.
@@63076topher yes. He knows that. He believes it should be different. So do I, for that matter. This play was called correctly under the current rules, and i certainly get some schadenfreude from this sort of thing, but I do believe that, in the event of a home run, the rule should be changed to allow the offence to correct a passing issue.
@@vonskyme9133 The batter should not need to run so fast that he passes a runner who has tagged uo incase of a caught fly ball. You learn from age 5 when you start tee ball not to pass a runner on front of you. It is not hard to do and rules are rules and shouldn't be if this happens it is ok to pass a runner but not if that happens.
K, I think the only thing that makes this situation stupid is the unwritten rules baseball has to not hurt the pitchers feelings. The batter is expected to run after that hit, but if he slows down and tries to watch it to make sure it's a Homer before running to make sure he doesn't pass the guy on first thinking he needs to tag up, then the pitcher's going to bean him for "pimping" when really he's just trying to follow the rules.
Another reason why the tagging up rule is stupid
It doesn't make sence for a runner to be able to score from second base on a high fly ball to the outfield that is caught.
Though now that I think about it baseball might be more exciting if base runners where going on any type of contact.
Not stupid at all
@@holmj12 well a runner can score on a fly ball in the outfield if an infield fly rule is called so I guess its not as silly an idea. All runners should be able to advance at their own peril.
@@adamlarue2131 that's not how the infield fly rule works. The batter is out regardless of a catch. If the ball is caught, runners still need to tag, just like normal
The umpires caused this by making contradictory calls. The Braves and Duvall got screwed.
There was only one call, which was homerun. Wolf had to wait a bit to see if it was or was not caught, but there was only one call.
First, you are a Georgia sports fan. I wonder if we can trust your obviously unbiased opinion.
Second, go ahead and tell me where the contradictory calls are? I saw two calls. Someone called a home run. Another one ruled the runners out for passing.
How are those contradictory in the slightest...?
@@garrettwebster201 There were two calls here HOME RUN by the umpire tasked with watching the ball and play in the outfield. And a out for passing runners by the umpire tasked with looking for base touches at first and maybe second as well as passing runners till between first and second.
@@63076topher oh, sure, but those arent contradictory. Both can (and were) true
Home run doesn't mean all the runners are guaranteed to score. It means they have the right to as long as they don't break any other rules and co tinue around the bases.
Its one of the most ridiculous calls when its a homerun. Its an archaic rule that ruins the game. Any ball hit over the fence however it goes over is a home run period. That is how it should be.
So a ball that bounces over the fence should be a home run? A ball to the right of the foul pole on the 1st base line should be a home run?
Apparently the answer to those is yes for you. Since you believe “Any ball hit over the fence however it goes over is a home run period”
@@rickhaavisto9023 I said over the wall not bounce over the wall and obviously its in fair territory but go ahead and reach some more. But nice try.
@@chrisculver5940 So a runner should be allowed to break the rules?
@@63076topher you get rid of that particular part of a ridiculous rule.
@@chrisculver5940 You are ridiculous rules keep everyone on the same playing feild so there can be no cheating. When you start to play baseball you learn not to pass a runner who is in front of you.
Completely disagree. They're wrong. They did what's "right", given their delayed, bad calls in play. You're an MLB "yes" man stooge.
Sure thing bud...It’s the umpire’s fault the runners cross, not the runners...
You are right that this channel can sometimes be a bit of "yes men". But this is not one of those instances.
There was no delayed call.
@@63076topher if you sync up the videos you can see that the runners pass each other before the umpire signals a HR. So yes there was a delayed call and that is actually how the rules work. Stupid I know. Umpires are tought to not call anything until they are absolutely sure that's what it is. There is no time constraint on a call they may call it at any point before, during, and after the play and not suffer any consequences. Unless they admit their mistake and huddle to correct it.
@@adamlarue2131 That umpire was not looking for passing runners a different one was looking for that. Umpires all have a different thing they look for in each play that is why there is more than 1 umpire.