Hey! Qualcomm Software Engineer here. I’ve always enjoyed your video but I thought I’d provide some context on this video in particular. One of the advantages that Apple has with their ecosystem is that they control all the system level APIs, so they can iterate quickly without caring too much about backward compatibility. This control over their ecosystem also has the benefits of controlling all their development toolchains. When it comes to the emulated performance, knowing what CPU you want to “pretend” as is very important. This is very easy for Apple as they know every single CPU SKU they have previously shipped, however we can’t really do that at Qualcomm. If we pretend to be a specific model of CPU (say, i7-9750H), there is some likelihood that Qualcomm is going to get sued over this. However, if you pretend to be some generic CPU you lose a lot of the hardware optimization benefits (let’s say if you’re pretending to be a generic pentium CPU, obviously it won’t benefit from the Intel instruction set extensions. If the program on windows think that it’s running on an older CPU, it would not use any of the new technologies and force the translation layer to “translate” the code as if it’s “translating” the code that runs on an old pentium.) Re: AV1 encoding, I believe X Elite has AV1 encoding support, the reason that handbrake hasn’t added AV1 is simply because they haven’t implemented the code yet, I’m sure these will come soon. Regarding the NPU - I actually think Qualcomm has one of the most competitive NPU on the market. These NPUs will make inference tasks more efficient. Although you may not see such inference task come into play yet, but I think they will be huge to creators just like you. They will enable much faster background removal in editing softwares. That being said, I do hope there is more documentation publicly so developer can make better use of it. Disclaimer: Opinion expressed here are my own and not my employers.
Hey man thanks for providing such an informative and professional comment. I will be the first to admit I am not always going to provide the most technical analysis in my "reviews" as I like to approach them more from the usability and real-world aspect. I would LOVE to see this machine grow into something better, as I know the potential is definitely there. I'll keep using it and hopefully I'll be able to show a more positive experience within the next year or so.
I got the surface laptop 7 myself.. and I wondering where to even download new drivers.. it should come with the Adreno control panel right ? Battery life isn’t also that great with editing video and photo’s.. Also why does it take 50 minutes to export a 9 minute 4K video that’s ridiculous.. ?!! Thinking about returning it..
Hey! Did you use the arm64 version of the editing software? Video editing software such as DaVinci resolve not only has arm64 native version, it should also come with NPU support. My (best guess) is that you’re running an emulated program (which suffers from performance degradation due to reasons I listed above) Re: drivers - it should be updated automatically through windows update. It’s also important to note that in most cases, the transition to arm64 is pretty easy if the software vendor is willing to click a few buttons and recompile their software into arm64…
Kind of funny that there is potentially better Linux ecosystem support since Linux on ARM has been a thing for a while now and Qualcomm is actively working on Linux support. I really hope MS makes ARM work this time though (or some other Linux vendors or Framework follow Tuxedo and bring out ARM hardware), having more hardware options is a good thing even knowing Lunar Lake is coming soon.
I took the financially conservative route and bought the Surface Laptop equipped with the low-end Snapdragon X Plus. To be honest, I've been very happy with the investment. Performance is on par with my I7 Core Ultra, battery life is significantly better and the hardware build, size, weight and overall portability are perfect for my use case. That said, I don't play games. I use this computer for academic work, mostly research. I'm the quintessential "office use' case. While a Chromebook would likely work just fine for much of my work, I need something that works when and where wifi may not be available. In short, and highly dependent upon the customer's use case, I'd argue that the Microsoft Surface Laptop is a better solution for many people than your review would otherwise suggest.
@@spin_kick I went with the 13.8" version. I had the opportunity to compare the 13 and the 15, side-by-side, at a local BestBuy store. For my use case and personal taste, the 13 is a much better fit. I wanted the Snapdragon X Plus (versus the Elite) to keep cost down. I don't believe the 15" laptop is offered with the X Plus CPU. Moreover, I believe anything 15" or larger should include a numeric keyboard. That would be my reason for buying a larger laptop. The Microsoft 15" does not come with that feature. Looking at the BestBuy website today, it appears a lot of people agree with my choice. Most of the 13.8" models are sold out, but they still have a lot of the 15" laptops in stock.
Thanks for the coverage, I liked the focus on user experience instead of just graphs. Considering my Windows on x86 laptop is always dead because Microsoft can't figure out how to get sleep states to work, their ARM endeavors are going as well as anyone could have hoped.
This is my problem with Microsoft. They have so many issues with their OS on x86 now they want to put that scribble code on ARM, which just sounds like a mess. I just use Linux on my Laptop for the better battery life, still not perfect either, but it has better compatibility for games than ARM does right now
That’s what I’ve been telling people. Windows is a pile of rubbish on x86 already. Let alone on ARM which has been horrendous since its inception and hasn’t gotten better in… was it 12 years?
In typical MSFT Dev practice, the adults work on the kernel and the server edition, while the kids develop the desktop client. This was first seen back in XP. 2000 was a unified code base. For XP,the team was split into desktop and server... When the desktop was such a mess, the server team was dragged back to integrate work from 2003, resulting in SP2. It was a big enough change to qualify as a new version of Windows, but marketing was banging the longhorn drum so it was released as a patch... Now you can see the same in 10/11 vs 2016/19/22 Then there ARM🤦♂️
Its also their third or fourth go around at attepting this too which makes it even more of a bummer that the software is still lacking. There was the Surface 1 and 2 RT, then the Sruface pro X and Pro 9 arm variants a couple years ago, and i remember it took them a while to even get 64bit x86 app emulation working at all
If you can dual boot w/o kneecapping your software load out, I’d love to see what a couple weeks of Linux on this laptop would look like. It’s sweet looking hw & am curious how a well established ARM OS would do on it.
Sounds like Microsoft rushed this to market to match up with the release of the SnapDragon X CPU's. I'm sure thing will improve over time but at the prices Microsoft is asking for these machines, I would've expected better.
Windows 11 24H2 was designed in conjunction with the SD X SOCs. Nothing's rushed. It runs great and as smooth as the M1 Air. If you don't Game (these aren't Gaming PCs anyway) and expect to use Beta software to run like finished software (DaVinci Resolve). Which you'll find all the gripes boil down to. My Surface Laptop 7 SD Elite Plus runs as smooth as a friend's M1 MacBook Air (haven't tried M2/M3). I don't game and I don't give a toss about DaVinci Resolve. These reviewers REALLY are nitpicking. Why doesn't any review of MacBooks trash them for being so poor at gaming? 🤷
@@bradavon 24H2 release WAS rushed, the development cycle for "germanium" (ge) has been weird and has even had boot problems just a couple of weeks before being signed for RTM, also notice how they've only officially released 24H2 for those new X Elite laptops, it has only been released in current state because those devices cannot boot on older platform versions due to system issues related to the cpu topology that result in bluescreen or something like that (don't remember the exact details)
@@RaidOwl He's still active? the youtube channel seemed abandoned for years. Infact got introduced to song through your channel & heard it on repeat until i got my fill. Looked up if there was more music like this or anything else but was disappointed. Hope he's doing well & say thanks for an amazing song
Yeah, Apple gave developers copies of the hardware and software 1 year in advance. So during this years all was tuned for launch. As I understand Microsoft did not work with their vast developer ecosystem and instead went it alone. So hence the lack of apps and games.
x86 has a much MUCH longer history and a software library that buries the entire apple HQ in crap... so.. while windows itself and some clients like steam runs well.. the games and other software is something I very much doubt
At this point, I'd say that Qualcomm's only problem with these is pricing. I've noticed that no one compares this to Hawk Point, which can be had for around $800. These should be no more than $699. There will be laptops around the $1000 price segment with Strix Point and OLED with 32 GB of RAM in another month! No one should have to pay these prices to put up with this dumpster fire...
What's funny is that windows gaming on ARM Macbooks is in a better place than gaming on the surface due to GPTK2. I can play Cyberpunk 2077 with Ray Tracing on M3 Pro/Max Macbook Pro but not on this machine.
Best review I watched. Really good and honest. It's so contradictory for me that everyone says "and accordingly to Microsoft, Microsoft's Prism scores more than Apple's Rosetta" and never say that it's a broken feature.
"Obviously this is trash "says it all on this biased review. Check out reviews by the likes of Dave 2D for an open balanced review. Yes gaming isn't where it should be, yes video editing isn't where it should be either but to call these "trash" is plain ignorance. My Surface Laptop 7 SD Elite Plus is so damn good and as smooth as a friend's M1 MacBook Air (haven't used M2/M3). Not everyone Video edits and if you want to game surely you'd just get a Gaming PC 🤷
The Prism x86 translation layer doesn't "suck ass" the video gives ONE example plus Qualcomm and Microsoft have both stated games that use Anti-cheat technology are currently not supported. One example isn't enough to make a qualified statement Prism x86 emulation "sucks ass". CZcams is full of reviews saying how good the emulation finally is on these new SD Elite SOCs (yes except with games). My examples being TIDAL and Facebook Messenger now run as good as on Intel PCs. I also use an OG Surface Pro X and the difference is a night and day improvement.
@@RaidOwlI'm pointing out you barely tested this device it seems, before using general street slang to explain the product rather than giving a thorough and reasoned argument. Apps on the M1 at launch weren't all rosey incidentally. To call this device trash and ass based on one very bespoke app . Come on, do better.
Dave2D was likely sponsored, and many commentators have alluded to this as it was extremely biased, comparing machines that should never be compared to make the X Elite look good. In fact, 90% of the early reviews were affiliated with Qualcomm/Windows.
Windows has been running on ARM since 8. They had LOTS of more time than Apple to make developers port apps etc. around 12 years vs 4 years. It’s just Microsoft not caring about windows, just like with the rest of the OS.
Here's my review of the surface laptop 7 15: bought two units and neither could stay reliably connected to wifi. Returned both. Consider yourself warned. Could not stay connected for more than 5 minutes.
Apple not running the games I want to play is the same problem, translation layer or not. It'd have been better for Microsoft to give grants to companies to do the port beforehand though, I agree
Check out GPTK2. It now supports DX12 games with AVX2, Ray tracing etc. Unless you play multiplayer games with anticheat, mac gaming is in a great place. Cyberpunk, Hellblade 2 etc all work.
Then why don’t you buy an Intel or AMD laptop? Apple never said it’s a gaming PC in 20 years of MacBooks. MSFT said that Snapdragon PC would beat everything even in gaming!
Man, the M1 Apple apps work after one year. Just wait for the developers to move to this new processor. I'm wondering what Intel thinks about this move?
Ain’t gonna happen since Microsoft cannot deprecate x86 like Apple did. So now you’re expecting devs to maintain two separate builds for windows which need different optimisations due to the different architecture. This is gonna be a massive pain for heavier and more complex applications, especially those which have inlined assembly instructions.
Developers won’r move to ARM if it means that they have to go through the Windows store! Why would they? How many x86 customers will buy snapdragon PCs?
Perhaps this one is paid so people…buy something else? This is just a thought, I enjoyed seeing the video. And I can review a PC like this and enjoy that device but be unfit for someone else. As long as I tell the truth, each one needs to freely choose.
Rosetta 2 instantly solved any software compatibilities with M1 Macs, henceforth making them fully useable at first launch. Often reviewers couldn't tell they were using Rosetta 2. These Snapdragon PC's are not ready for primetime at all. Their GPU's aren't good either. You're paying to be a beta tester with these ARM PC's.
Mac is so much better as long as you only want mac everything and don't want to integrate with business. Such a great company and yet still cant get it to integrate with business even with 95% of most work in the cloud and web. Mac is solid hardware, garbage everything else
There should be Comparision between 1) 16inch CoPilot+ Snapdragon X Elite Laptop 2) 16inch Coapilot+ AMD Ryzen 9 AI 300HX Laptop 3) 16inch MacBook M3 Chip Laptop with 16GB RAM. These 3 Laptop comparision will be Good. Intel Lunar Lake Chipset and Apple M4 Chipset Laptop will take time to come in market. AMD is also planning to release ARM Based Architeture Processor. x86 Architecture Processor are getting Obsolete now in future.
9:10 "Although the software is buttcheeks today, it has the potential to improve over time". I get that, and ordinarily I'd agree, but I keep reminding myself that Windows RT came out in 2012. Microsoft has had literally over a decade to study and learn from that release. If the output of that is a buggy version of Windows 11 that can't even run League of Legends, that's pretty sad. Even sadder because the hardware looks like it's aspiring to be a recent MacBook Air, which is an amazing piece of tech.
truth to be told Apple Silicon launch wasn't smooth at all either software-wise, even almost year after M1, no less than 1/3 software didn't work properly, and majority of peripherials too, when I look at Apple Silicon Macs today, most applications work, but not everything yet - despite being almost 4 years on the market, with this new Windows ARM, it will take some time as well, I wouldn't hesitate to say most people and businesses should comfortably shop for "proven" x86 devices this year (same was for Apple previously) because investing into some "maybe" features while compromising on current state of functionality is a no-go ...unless you're "content creator" enjoying wallowing in the mud :D
Because they have to be backwards compatible while they do it. Latest Windows still supports 32bit apps, applications going back to XP etc. Apple has a hard cut of what they want to support. Dropping 32bit etc. Windows' backwards compatibility is its biggest strength but also makes emulation a much harder problem for them.
@@Andynath100 it’s also its biggest weakness that makes it a security black hole. Eventually you’ll have to cut off the support for old stuff or else you get to Microsoft’s point where you can’t remove it because new software is still being built with ancient technologies.
im thinking by the time I graduate highschool, summer 2025, they will have a new or at least mid gen release with most of the kinks fixed. I have tried macbooks and other than them being good with connecting to my phone it lacks so many things a windows based laptop can do. my best guess is by the time I am going into college I can buy this and it will be much more polished
They expect developers to waste their valuable resources optimizing for both Snapdragon CPU and Adreno GPU. This is crazy no way they gonna do that instead they'll just skip supporting this and focus their resources for PC, PS and well, to some extent Xbox. Their PR of "it just works" I don't buy that. It even struggles in BG3 and that's only in the early game. Imagine once you reach denser places like cities full of NPS the performance will suffer. And they are showing Control, a corridor game.
Apple could tell the software devs that all new devices would be ARM within 2 years, so they need to port their code or die. This enabled them to transition to ARM with great success. In 2 years time Windows ARM devices will still be a tiny fraction of the installed base, so there will be no compelling case for companies to port x86 code to ARM native. Native software is going to lag, so microsoft needed to deliver a great translation layer like Rosetta 2. Looks like they don’t have one. If apps don’t run right, users will stick to tried and trusted x86 devices. I can’t see this arm transition happening, there’s too much inertia
Not only that, MS has had Windows on Arm for like 5 years now and they're still not up to where Apple was at M1 launch :( Devs are just not motivated on the Windows side, at least not yet.
@@Kevin-oj2uo Apple does not have the entire business world behind it, including most datacenters across the planet with installed x86 hardware to contend with.
Give the software some time man even I remember with M1 at starting most apps runned shit too let the developers make the apps natively for windows arm atleast like apple 2 years of transition but Snapdron X elite is solid so far in every aspect Linus dropped a video today and he looks happy reviewing them
I can forgive the gaming side of things. I can forgive not having all of Adobe collection of apps ready to work. What I cannot overlook is old printers not synching with the laptop. That is unacceptable.
I’m just looking to run Microsoft office and web content via Edge so it fits my use case perfectly! Thanks for convincing me this machine is right for my use case.
Finally got it connected to the copier at work. Then I needed to print on 11x17, it's not even showing paper options. Anyone? Considering returning it. My other laptop is the Surface Laptop 4, works great. What is the point of this if it doesn't even work easily with everything? I'm not a computer genious either.
Windows sucks in general. But this is how monopol works. Your product doesnt have to be good because customers will buy it anyway. What will you buy for casual gamer? Linux? Lets be serious.
I am not saying this review don't have great points but for a lot of people this may not be you and yes there was a bug or two but don't let this guy have you thinking apple got it down pack because he talks about steam but talks about apple (come on now apple not known for games at all or can play game just about at all) also a lot of reviews talk about the bugs but most of them says how it's a great buy or great pc but you have to keep your mind in check by checking for what works and what does not apple didn't just have everythng ready in a day. there is a lot of things to like but a lot of his issues sound like gamer issues..... and to be honest if you a gamer more than likely this ain't for you anyway. im telling you this is solid it's worth while computer. for the most part for a lot of people this will be the computer you will want screen wise I don't think a lot of poeple beating it specially if you are not worried about oled because then you could save even more and the plus acutally does well. but I am not saying one side or an other perfect you have to look and see what works for you. (don't forget apple prices) and you still not getting a touch screen.
Nah, I’m with Brett here, if you need a word processor with internet browsing and nothing more, buy a Chromebook instead. Or stick to a x86 based machine until the software is resolved, but this is what the 3rd time windows has tried to migrate now…
@@adam03957 okay I own one of these and seen layers and seen it run the stuff and for most this is that computer (factor in price) I’ve own a Chromebook and it CAN NOT DO ALL THUS CAN DO 100% and people are adding more and more to arm with chrome it is what it is and android apps. You don’t get nothing more. Oh and if you know how Linux apps. But most people won’t know how to run and get Linux. (For everyone here look around at more and more reviews) don’t take my word or his word.
I want a computer that works great now, not in a year from now. I don’t care about the touch screen - Windows always sucked at touch controls ever since Windows 10. x86 Windows laptop is superior for games, ARM MacBook is superior for work. Maybe this will change in a year, but there would be newer laptops at that point.
Give it some time lah... macs with M1s had compatibility issues when they came out as well. I remember Premiere Pro just randomly crashing on my work M1 Ultra machine, just wiping out everything that was not saved yet. Had to edit everything from scratch multiple times just for one video. Now it's fine. Doesn't have the samw problem anymore. So, yeah... give it some time.
Yes, but we are four years old, and Windows on ARM has been alive 3X longer than Apple Silicon! Really the time has past for fans to keep reeling that excuse out!
Sure for gaming and photo video editing software needs to catch up and it's not ready yet. But this does not need hardware upgrade. As time goes software should catch up. For many folks who are not in gaming and heavy editing but for web browsing, CZcams, word, PowerPoint excel, Netflix, hulu, prime, zoom, microsoft teams, running a VMware, and other such apps, at least this new snapdragorn based computers are providing much improved battery life over other alternatives. And it runs much cooler. This itself is a big step in right direction. Stating do not buy is a stretch and misleading.
I think the windows world just needs more time to move to arm. Apple has a handful of hardware configurations, and has had years of experience. I want arm to take off for windows. Apple is like China, they can say what they are doing and do it. MS has a lot more to deal with.
Solid review that I wanted to see. I've been hopeful and excited for this new chip's performance, but Windows/Microsoft has releases that are half-baked, and I was expecting this. I don't think it will fail, but it's a good idea to let this mature for another year, probably 2. I also don't give a shit about the AI features currently either. I just want that trifecta of battery, performance, and build with Windows to be running on it first.
The difference is that Microsoft has an ecosystem with far more software companies involved than Apple. Its hilarious that you are blaming Microsoft for this. Your review is pointless considering a thousand other reviews had already mentioned that game makers have not updated their software to work with the Copilot+ PC's yet. You are blaming Microsoft for other companies not doing their work yet. It is no different than a new version of a Windows operating system coming out. Many companies don't have new software and drivers for it available when the new operating system first comes out. Also, with competition from Intel and AMD (and possibly Nvidia soon), many software companies were not going to develop updates for a Qualcomm CPU chip until they saw the initial laptops arrive. Business users and artists are in great shape since the Adobe and Microsoft software works great on it and makes up a large amount of their needs. Other companies will be on board as more of the laptops hit the market.
I’m blaming Microsoft for releasing a product where users will have a bad experience for lots of apps, crazy right? It’s almost like they could have given devs more time and support or something…I know I know this all crazy talk.
@@RaidOwl That is catch 22 when we are talking about a new chip that has never been seen in the market. In this case everyone needed to see the chip run correct with speed and low power to jump on board, Right now the computer is great for business users. The main thing missing is games. Game makers had a reason to be wary since games use huge amounts of resources. Most current versions by all mfg's (MS, Asus, Dell, etc) with Snapdragon only have 16 GB of memory. The Surface version with 32 GB of RAM is not expected to be available for another month or more. My only complaint is that Microsoft doesn't have this tested with a compatible equal to their Surface Thunderbolt dock to provide extra ports for multiple monitors.
Prism has a lot of promise, but it's not there yet for a $1400 piece of hardware. Gaming is null and void. Do I think it's cool? Yep. Would I buy it in it's current form? NO WAY.
disagree - this is WAY better than i expected after seeing RT years ago...the fact that its in the same ballpark as apples stuff is amazing since apple has what, like two models now with just memory and shape differences? MS/Qualcomm has done this with more device diversity than apple has and it works THIS good on a gen 1 product?!?!?! apple is at gen 3 and the fact that this can keep up in most cases impresses me, i expected much less personally and since all i use my laptops for is web and office, i WANT one!!!
@@RaidOwl i tried to get my boss to buy me one to try out (I'm a LANTech) but she told me to wait so I'm just grumpy hahaha...its a good review of course, I understand your take...im biased against apple :/
I as an mac user even thought maybe they have something up there sleeves this time. But now I got proven again that’s not the case. At least not in its currents form. And even when it gets better, they will probably hit another roadblock, because I get the feeling there foundation is build with care like let’s say the Rosetta 2 translation layer.
MS has all its Azure architecture running x86, all this stuff would have to move. Apple is lucky in that it doesnt have this kind of thing to worry about as much.
The issue here is that of expectations and what Microsoft has planned for the future. Windows 11 on ARM can do certain things and can run x86 applications and some x64 applications. Microsoft are in a no win situation. They cannot do an Apple and abandon Intel. They will not go ARM only but they need to make sure devs offer applications for both x64 & ARM.
Apple had little software accessibility, or variety when it transitioned from X86 to ARM. I love my snapdragon Sasmsung Edge. I feel you're easily depressed..... chill out man... enjoy your ARM low fan noise long battery beauty. I am.
The intro conclusion was dumb… new processor and thinking all apps are compatible is beyond my mind! Not even mac managed to get it right at the beginning 🤦🏻♂️😂 He got angry and started deleting my replies…. I criticize your expectations before testing the device. You did exactly what you criticize about me “not seeing the whole video before commenting” 😂 again I criticize your expectations of a new arm processor thinking it will work like a x86 with all the apps 😂🤦🏻♂️ "oh, It can't game" < dumb "oh, it does not run all app natively" < dumb Go check if it can play Crysis 🤦🏻♂️😂
@@RaidOwl do you stpd dumb people read the comment before replying? “Introduction conclusion” click anything on your brain 🤔🤦🏻♂️😂 Many dumb people thinking that a new processor will be as good on software and a x86 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️ I criticize expectations of the device you had before having it on your hand. No need to test drive the device to know it wont 🤦🏻♂️😂
Apple doesn't give a crap about legacy resources. And since Apple doesn't have the eco system that Windows x86. The Windows eco system is way more involved. I'd love to sit you down in front of my customers with Industrial IoT hardware that Windows run. They will laugh you out of their building if you suggest that a Mac could do anything they need. Also, you failed to mention that APPLE is the most closed source Hardware and Software platform in existence. The beauty of Windows is that it runs on so many hardware platforms. Apple couldn't do that if they tried. Before you call something a shit product, remember that this is bigger than your simple use case, and requires way more moving parts than Apple has ever had to manage! I recognize that the launch isn't perfect. But wow, you really need to realize that the world is more complex them a simple Apple laptop. If that is your only comparison, then you should rethink your goal as a reviewer.
@kevlarian *"And since Apple doesn't have the eco system that Windows x86."* LOL what Windows ecosystem? 😂There's no such ecosystem. Apple connects the iPhone, Macs, iPad and all of their headphone accessories as well as their own software together. That's an ecosystem.
They have said that for 12 years since the first Windows on ARM machine was sold! I would not buy something on the promise of tomorrow especially that in three months AMD, M4 and Intel will all come out with better chips.
Wait, what? 10:38 If you're still watching this, you're my surface connector but @ 2:18 you said you hate the surface connector, so you hate those of us that watched it to the end? Oh Brett! 🥲😭😂
Yeah, pretty much the video I would have made. 🙂 Apple managed to make everyone on the PC side wet their collective pants. I mean, Apple wasn't even first - the original Surface RT was Windows on ARM and had many of the same problems. And here's the thing - yes, "all day" battery life is nice - but how many of us actually use our laptops where we can't plug them in? (And remember, most modern laptops charge over USB-C so we're not even talking about a special charger anymore - the same one that can charge your phone and tablet can also charge your laptop...) And Apple only has 17% of the computer market - it's #4, so this is a clear case of massive overreaction (or... more likely... using Apple to get people to buy new PCs... I mean this is the *third* time Apple has changed CPUs 68000->PowerPC->Intel->ARM) Apple can get away with this because it has a hostage audience - if you like macOS, you have exactly one source for laptops - Apple. That's not even remotely true for Windows PCs. It's bad enough forcing Windows 11 on everyone when it's so badly done, but then adding Copilot+ to the mix just upped the ante and then doing it as a reason to push ARM - apparently not revealing the minimum TOPS for the NPU to Intel or AMD for example, just made this inane. Worse, if you just bought an Intel Ultra series CPU based laptop in order to get into AI, well, screw you since that's just 10 TOPS. You'll have to wait until the next gen CPUs come out at 45 TOPS... if Microsoft decides to support non-ARM devices for Copilot+. Assuming you even have a use for Copilot+ because like the presenter, I really do not. In fact, I really don't want it on my machine as I consider it a grave security issue. It's a mess. Fortunately, contrary to what many tech sites are reporting, you CAN buy the business models of Surface devices, which I expect will continue to offer Intel/AMD versions, and not one Windows PC company, not even Microsoft, has committed to switching 100% to ARM.
I still think arm windows laptops could be more successful this go around, not because they actually improved software compatibility/performance, but because a lot of average users just don't use that much software. If they have a browser, email, video playback, and mobile ish games, they'll be perfectly content.
I see it as they are making the same mistakes as with the 8cx chip. People don't know what they are buying because they don't know what software it will run. Qualcomm does not make it easier to find a list of common software that will or will not run well enough. People don't want to be the guinea pigs for software compatibility because they plan to use their machines as opposed to tinker with it. It's far too expensive for people that are just looking for a casual machine.
It's not the first fail of Windows on ARM. At this point I don't think they can hack it at all. If the world moved on to ARM, Linux might actually take over on account of running on ARM for literal decades now. If you don't get support or sufficient performance of your usual windows apps on ARM, then there's no additional pain of switching to Linux, only the gain of a working eco system of open source apps. x86 & Windows live and die together it seems.
Windows sucks but Linux sucks way more, so many bugs and it's way too complex to solve issues for the average user. almost zero support by common software is worse than x86 support on ARM. Linux users just don't want to talk about it/nor admit it to themself.
@@untmlit's not really a problem the users or even most distro devs can fix. That's why most of us don't want to talk about it. Besides that, some people are Linux users to actively avoid commercial software. Half the problem is that the usual way Linux ends up with having commercial software is that some company takes over a beloved community project... Which gets immediately forked for a libre variant, and virtually nobody uses the original.
@@untml True, it can be too hard for the average user trying it on the desktop. Buggy software support can be worse than no software support however. I'm quite positive more people will use Linux than x86 emu on Windows for ARM for example. Also keep in mind, that Chromebooks and Android devices are at their core Linux systems, that are widespread, running on ARM and easy to use. SteamOS is also a Linux system, albeit running on x86 hardware, and from what I've heard it's running rather nicely for those Steamdeck users. And those are just GUI uses, let's not talk about the millions of Linux based machines running 24/7 as little router boxes in homes today. Linux doesn't have the common software support because it hasn't been relevant enough to the developers of that software so far. The buggyness is a function of intermediate users. Linux systems once setup don't tend to delete their users data or disintegrate themselves, as windows sometimes does. So if you got a preinstalled Linux box you'd probably be fine. But if there's an intermediate user that thinks they know computers and tries to install Linux they're immediately confronted with so many conflicting choices that their chances of success are less than optimal. That is to say, if you get a corporation or large enough commercial interest behind it, it can become a viable alternative, as it has in all those special use cases. Question is, is Microsoft failing at ARM going to generate that large enough interest for common desktop use. There's also the push towards cloud services with things like photoshop, that the OS might not even matter at all in the long run as far as app support goes. In such a future I'd strongly advice anyone against Microsofts big brother OS (Recall *wink wink*), on account of privacy concerns alone.
Having the Surface Pro ARM, I can confirm that this eats through the battery when multitasking. I assume it is a bug, not because it only uses performance cores. It is noticeable. If you do one thing at a time, like watching media, it is solid, though my SP gets about half the SOT that I get on my 15-inch MB Air M2 (larger battery). Other reviews also confirm this is the state as of early July. For me, the crux is the need for more drivers and ARM support. No Google Drive integrated into the file system is a deal-breaker. My paid-for VPN is not compatible at the moment. My 2-3 month old printer and scanner do not work. They may or may never get support, so it is a mess for my personal case. I currently have no issues with Macs, so why would I keep the SP? There really is no good reason. With Apple doing some great deals, Macbooks are very close in price to these new X Elite chips. Do yourself a favour and buy a Mac if you want ARM, or wait for Intel and AMD new chips if you prefer Windows. Avoid the X-Elite, maybe Gen 2 or in 6 months when these are half-price.
I have bought the 15" model and I can say hands down much better than anything I've experienced. No issues with the magnet, this review seems biased in a way. Very happy with this purchase and can recommend, plus you get Copilot which saves me a ton of time tbh. Why the hate? No clue
Hey! Qualcomm Software Engineer here. I’ve always enjoyed your video but I thought I’d provide some context on this video in particular.
One of the advantages that Apple has with their ecosystem is that they control all the system level APIs, so they can iterate quickly without caring too much about backward compatibility. This control over their ecosystem also has the benefits of controlling all their development toolchains. When it comes to the emulated performance, knowing what CPU you want to “pretend” as is very important. This is very easy for Apple as they know every single CPU SKU they have previously shipped, however we can’t really do that at Qualcomm. If we pretend to be a specific model of CPU (say, i7-9750H), there is some likelihood that Qualcomm is going to get sued over this. However, if you pretend to be some generic CPU you lose a lot of the hardware optimization benefits (let’s say if you’re pretending to be a generic pentium CPU, obviously it won’t benefit from the Intel instruction set extensions. If the program on windows think that it’s running on an older CPU, it would not use any of the new technologies and force the translation layer to “translate” the code as if it’s “translating” the code that runs on an old pentium.) Re: AV1 encoding, I believe X Elite has AV1 encoding support, the reason that handbrake hasn’t added AV1 is simply because they haven’t implemented the code yet, I’m sure these will come soon. Regarding the NPU - I actually think Qualcomm has one of the most competitive NPU on the market. These NPUs will make inference tasks more efficient. Although you may not see such inference task come into play yet, but I think they will be huge to creators just like you. They will enable much faster background removal in editing softwares. That being said, I do hope there is more documentation publicly so developer can make better use of it. Disclaimer: Opinion expressed here are my own and not my employers.
Hey man thanks for providing such an informative and professional comment. I will be the first to admit I am not always going to provide the most technical analysis in my "reviews" as I like to approach them more from the usability and real-world aspect. I would LOVE to see this machine grow into something better, as I know the potential is definitely there. I'll keep using it and hopefully I'll be able to show a more positive experience within the next year or so.
I got the surface laptop 7 myself.. and I wondering where to even download new drivers.. it should come with the Adreno control panel right ? Battery life isn’t also that great with editing video and photo’s..
Also why does it take 50 minutes to export a 9 minute 4K video that’s ridiculous.. ?!! Thinking about returning it..
Hey! Did you use the arm64 version of the editing software? Video editing software such as DaVinci resolve not only has arm64 native version, it should also come with NPU support. My (best guess) is that you’re running an emulated program (which suffers from performance degradation due to reasons I listed above) Re: drivers - it should be updated automatically through windows update. It’s also important to note that in most cases, the transition to arm64 is pretty easy if the software vendor is willing to click a few buttons and recompile their software into arm64…
@@zenghao Interesting. All Software developers should have done this long ago and avoid messing up everyone.
Thank you for confirming my choice to stay with Linux and Mac. I jumped ship in 2015 and never look back since.
Kind of funny that there is potentially better Linux ecosystem support since Linux on ARM has been a thing for a while now and Qualcomm is actively working on Linux support. I really hope MS makes ARM work this time though (or some other Linux vendors or Framework follow Tuxedo and bring out ARM hardware), having more hardware options is a good thing even knowing Lunar Lake is coming soon.
"wiggle it around till it slides in with the bedroom scene is something"...🤣😂
More interested in Tuxedos Snapdragon release to be honest.
Oops, you made the mistake of actually trying to use this laptop instead of just running some tests on it :)
I know…my bad
random forgetting sarah marshall one off joke reference 15 years later?? this is my kind of guy!!
where?
I took the financially conservative route and bought the Surface Laptop equipped with the low-end Snapdragon X Plus. To be honest, I've been very happy with the investment. Performance is on par with my I7 Core Ultra, battery life is significantly better and the hardware build, size, weight and overall portability are perfect for my use case. That said, I don't play games. I use this computer for academic work, mostly research. I'm the quintessential "office use' case. While a Chromebook would likely work just fine for much of my work, I need something that works when and where wifi may not be available. In short, and highly dependent upon the customer's use case, I'd argue that the Microsoft Surface Laptop is a better solution for many people than your review would otherwise suggest.
Did you get the 13 or the 15? I'm having a hard time deciding
@@spin_kick I went with the 13.8" version. I had the opportunity to compare the 13 and the 15, side-by-side, at a local BestBuy store. For my use case and personal taste, the 13 is a much better fit. I wanted the Snapdragon X Plus (versus the Elite) to keep cost down. I don't believe the 15" laptop is offered with the X Plus CPU. Moreover, I believe anything 15" or larger should include a numeric keyboard. That would be my reason for buying a larger laptop. The Microsoft 15" does not come with that feature. Looking at the BestBuy website today, it appears a lot of people agree with my choice. Most of the 13.8" models are sold out, but they still have a lot of the 15" laptops in stock.
Thanks for the coverage, I liked the focus on user experience instead of just graphs.
Considering my Windows on x86 laptop is always dead because Microsoft can't figure out how to get sleep states to work, their ARM endeavors are going as well as anyone could have hoped.
This is my problem with Microsoft. They have so many issues with their OS on x86 now they want to put that scribble code on ARM, which just sounds like a mess. I just use Linux on my Laptop for the better battery life, still not perfect either, but it has better compatibility for games than ARM does right now
That’s what I’ve been telling people. Windows is a pile of rubbish on x86 already. Let alone on ARM which has been horrendous since its inception and hasn’t gotten better in… was it 12 years?
In typical MSFT Dev practice, the adults work on the kernel and the server edition, while the kids develop the desktop client.
This was first seen back in XP. 2000 was a unified code base. For XP,the team was split into desktop and server...
When the desktop was such a mess, the server team was dragged back to integrate work from 2003, resulting in SP2. It was a big enough change to qualify as a new version of Windows, but marketing was banging the longhorn drum so it was released as a patch...
Now you can see the same in 10/11 vs 2016/19/22
Then there ARM🤦♂️
Im not surprised, they can milk enterprise customers much better for windows server.
Wow I don't expect to see this from you, Brett :D Thanks for the coverage!
Its also their third or fourth go around at attepting this too which makes it even more of a bummer that the software is still lacking. There was the Surface 1 and 2 RT, then the Sruface pro X and Pro 9 arm variants a couple years ago, and i remember it took them a while to even get 64bit x86 app emulation working at all
If you can dual boot w/o kneecapping your software load out, I’d love to see what a couple weeks of Linux on this laptop would look like. It’s sweet looking hw & am curious how a well established ARM OS would do on it.
Linux doesnt run on this, other than the MS subsystem. This is what the bleeding edge feels like lol
Sounds like Microsoft rushed this to market to match up with the release of the SnapDragon X CPU's. I'm sure thing will improve over time but at the prices Microsoft is asking for these machines, I would've expected better.
Windows 11 24H2 was designed in conjunction with the SD X SOCs. Nothing's rushed. It runs great and as smooth as the M1 Air. If you don't Game (these aren't Gaming PCs anyway) and expect to use Beta software to run like finished software (DaVinci Resolve). Which you'll find all the gripes boil down to. My Surface Laptop 7 SD Elite Plus runs as smooth as a friend's M1 MacBook Air (haven't tried M2/M3). I don't game and I don't give a toss about DaVinci Resolve. These reviewers REALLY are nitpicking. Why doesn't any review of MacBooks trash them for being so poor at gaming? 🤷
@@bradavon if you are not gaming then why buy this instead of mac ?
Microsoft only sets the price for surface and not for other companies
@@bradavon 24H2 release WAS rushed, the development cycle for "germanium" (ge) has been weird and has even had boot problems just a couple of weeks before being signed for RTM, also notice how they've only officially released 24H2 for those new X Elite laptops, it has only been released in current state because those devices cannot boot on older platform versions due to system issues related to the cpu topology that result in bluescreen or something like that (don't remember the exact details)
@@Stanwis if you prefer windows over macos, i guess
thanks for the coverage! finally some proper results without just benchmarks. (ps, love the outro "charmed by ahri")
Lol sent this comment to Blake
@@RaidOwl He's still active? the youtube channel seemed abandoned for years. Infact got introduced to song through your channel & heard it on repeat until i got my fill. Looked up if there was more music like this or anything else but was disappointed. Hope he's doing well & say thanks for an amazing song
Nah he’s not active anymore but we’re good friends. He’s doing well 👍🏼
@@RaidOwl good to know, thanks for the update man! i appreciate this❤️
Till ai can make my breakfast and clean my car, I do not care
without the fact that windows on arm existed for 7 years so they had plenty of time to make this decent
Yeah, Apple gave developers copies of the hardware and software 1 year in advance. So during this years all was tuned for launch. As I understand Microsoft did not work with their vast developer ecosystem and instead went it alone. So hence the lack of apps and games.
x86 has a much MUCH longer history and a software library that buries the entire apple HQ in crap... so.. while windows itself and some clients like steam runs well.. the games and other software is something I very much doubt
But it's soooo pretty, especially in that blue...
At this point, I'd say that Qualcomm's only problem with these is pricing. I've noticed that no one compares this to Hawk Point, which can be had for around $800. These should be no more than $699. There will be laptops around the $1000 price segment with Strix Point and OLED with 32 GB of RAM in another month! No one should have to pay these prices to put up with this dumpster fire...
What's funny is that windows gaming on ARM Macbooks is in a better place than gaming on the surface due to GPTK2.
I can play Cyberpunk 2077 with Ray Tracing on M3 Pro/Max Macbook Pro but not on this machine.
Best review I watched. Really good and honest. It's so contradictory for me that everyone says "and accordingly to Microsoft, Microsoft's Prism scores more than Apple's Rosetta" and never say that it's a broken feature.
That's why I'm waiting for Lunar Lake and Panther Lake laptops. Thanks for an honest review!
I’m hyped for lunar lake. If it’s a good step forward for intel, it’ll benefit the whole industry with better competition.
4.5 TFlops GPU is the same as a 2019 MacBook Pro with the 5500m. Just keep that in mind.
Indeed. It seems the big marketing is all about the ARM based CPU in these new Snapdragon X SOCs, not the Adreno GPU.
A17pro in the iphone is faster CPU and GPU
@@freddywayneBC Snapdragon GPU sucks! It loses to AMD & Intel iGPU from last year!
"Obviously this is trash "says it all on this biased review. Check out reviews by the likes of Dave 2D for an open balanced review. Yes gaming isn't where it should be, yes video editing isn't where it should be either but to call these "trash" is plain ignorance. My Surface Laptop 7 SD Elite Plus is so damn good and as smooth as a friend's M1 MacBook Air (haven't used M2/M3). Not everyone Video edits and if you want to game surely you'd just get a Gaming PC 🤷
You’re white knighting for a trillion dollar company. Go look in the mirror.
The Prism x86 translation layer doesn't "suck ass" the video gives ONE example plus Qualcomm and Microsoft have both stated games that use Anti-cheat technology are currently not supported. One example isn't enough to make a qualified statement Prism x86 emulation "sucks ass". CZcams is full of reviews saying how good the emulation finally is on these new SD Elite SOCs (yes except with games). My examples being TIDAL and Facebook Messenger now run as good as on Intel PCs. I also use an OG Surface Pro X and the difference is a night and day improvement.
@@RaidOwlI'm pointing out you barely tested this device it seems, before using general street slang to explain the product rather than giving a thorough and reasoned argument. Apps on the M1 at launch weren't all rosey incidentally. To call this device trash and ass based on one very bespoke app . Come on, do better.
Nah
Dave2D was likely sponsored, and many commentators have alluded to this as it was extremely biased, comparing machines that should never be compared to make the X Elite look good. In fact, 90% of the early reviews were affiliated with Qualcomm/Windows.
Some people are suggesting that the ARM laptops might have solved "Hot Bag Syndrome." If true, that would be a major improvement.
Windows has been running on ARM since 8. They had LOTS of more time than Apple to make developers port apps etc. around 12 years vs 4 years. It’s just Microsoft not caring about windows, just like with the rest of the OS.
Here's my review of the surface laptop 7 15: bought two units and neither could stay reliably connected to wifi. Returned both. Consider yourself warned. Could not stay connected for more than 5 minutes.
Apple not running the games I want to play is the same problem, translation layer or not. It'd have been better for Microsoft to give grants to companies to do the port beforehand though, I agree
Check out GPTK2. It now supports DX12 games with AVX2, Ray tracing etc.
Unless you play multiplayer games with anticheat, mac gaming is in a great place. Cyberpunk, Hellblade 2 etc all work.
Then why don’t you buy an Intel or AMD laptop? Apple never said it’s a gaming PC in 20 years of MacBooks. MSFT said that Snapdragon PC would beat everything even in gaming!
Man, the M1 Apple apps work after one year. Just wait for the developers to move to this new processor. I'm wondering what Intel thinks about this move?
Ain’t gonna happen since Microsoft cannot deprecate x86 like Apple did. So now you’re expecting devs to maintain two separate builds for windows which need different optimisations due to the different architecture. This is gonna be a massive pain for heavier and more complex applications, especially those which have inlined assembly instructions.
Microsoft and qualcomm don't even have dev kits out NOW for these. It's not gonna happen
Developers won’r move to ARM if it means that they have to go through the Windows store! Why would they? How many x86 customers will buy snapdragon PCs?
Most laptop reviews feel fake because they are being paid to say specific things. This is definitely not that at all.
Perhaps this one is paid so people…buy something else? This is just a thought, I enjoyed seeing the video. And I can review a PC like this and enjoy that device but be unfit for someone else. As long as I tell the truth, each one needs to freely choose.
hello raid owl tell me asus vivobook snapdragon x elite good for video editing and blender ?
A ton of applications also didn't work (mostly developer stuff) when the M1 Macs first launched too. Give it time.
Rosetta 2 instantly solved any software compatibilities with M1 Macs, henceforth making them fully useable at first launch. Often reviewers couldn't tell they were using Rosetta 2. These Snapdragon PC's are not ready for primetime at all. Their GPU's aren't good either. You're paying to be a beta tester with these ARM PC's.
Mac is so much better as long as you only want mac everything and don't want to integrate with business. Such a great company and yet still cant get it to integrate with business even with 95% of most work in the cloud and web. Mac is solid hardware, garbage everything else
it's surprising consumer get their devices earlier developers
Yeah I used real life money. Microsoft likes that.
Comparing 64gigs to apple's 24 gigs is laughable.
There should be Comparision between
1) 16inch CoPilot+ Snapdragon X Elite Laptop
2) 16inch Coapilot+ AMD Ryzen 9 AI 300HX Laptop
3) 16inch MacBook M3 Chip Laptop with 16GB RAM.
These 3 Laptop comparision will be Good.
Intel Lunar Lake Chipset and Apple M4 Chipset Laptop will take time to come in market.
AMD is also planning to release ARM Based Architeture Processor. x86 Architecture Processor are getting Obsolete now in future.
Where OLED on laptop 7. Microsoft dumb
9:10 "Although the software is buttcheeks today, it has the potential to improve over time". I get that, and ordinarily I'd agree, but I keep reminding myself that Windows RT came out in 2012. Microsoft has had literally over a decade to study and learn from that release. If the output of that is a buggy version of Windows 11 that can't even run League of Legends, that's pretty sad. Even sadder because the hardware looks like it's aspiring to be a recent MacBook Air, which is an amazing piece of tech.
truth to be told Apple Silicon launch wasn't smooth at all either software-wise,
even almost year after M1, no less than 1/3 software didn't work properly, and majority of peripherials too,
when I look at Apple Silicon Macs today, most applications work, but not everything yet - despite being almost 4 years on the market,
with this new Windows ARM, it will take some time as well, I wouldn't hesitate to say most people and businesses should comfortably shop for "proven" x86 devices this year (same was for Apple previously) because investing into some "maybe" features while compromising on current state of functionality is a no-go ...unless you're "content creator" enjoying wallowing in the mud :D
Why is it so difficult for Microsoft to make their own Rosetta?
Why is it so difficult for Microsoft to make functional software that isn’t spyware.
Because they have to be backwards compatible while they do it. Latest Windows still supports 32bit apps, applications going back to XP etc.
Apple has a hard cut of what they want to support. Dropping 32bit etc.
Windows' backwards compatibility is its biggest strength but also makes emulation a much harder problem for them.
@@Andynath100 it’s also its biggest weakness that makes it a security black hole. Eventually you’ll have to cut off the support for old stuff or else you get to Microsoft’s point where you can’t remove it because new software is still being built with ancient technologies.
@@Andynath100& yet MSFT office is progressively getting worse every year! It’s like MSFT software developers intentionally want Windows to fail!
Hey thank you this is a real review - not the fluff of other reviewers
im thinking by the time I graduate highschool, summer 2025, they will have a new or at least mid gen release with most of the kinks fixed. I have tried macbooks and other than them being good with connecting to my phone it lacks so many things a windows based laptop can do. my best guess is by the time I am going into college I can buy this and it will be much more polished
They expect developers to waste their valuable resources optimizing for both Snapdragon CPU and Adreno GPU. This is crazy no way they gonna do that instead they'll just skip supporting this and focus their resources for PC, PS and well, to some extent Xbox.
Their PR of "it just works" I don't buy that. It even struggles in BG3 and that's only in the early game. Imagine once you reach denser places like cities full of NPS the performance will suffer. And they are showing Control, a corridor game.
Apple could tell the software devs that all new devices would be ARM within 2 years, so they need to port their code or die. This enabled them to transition to ARM with great success. In 2 years time Windows ARM devices will still be a tiny fraction of the installed base, so there will be no compelling case for companies to port x86 code to ARM native. Native software is going to lag, so microsoft needed to deliver a great translation layer like Rosetta 2. Looks like they don’t have one. If apps don’t run right, users will stick to tried and trusted x86 devices. I can’t see this arm transition happening, there’s too much inertia
Not only that, MS has had Windows on Arm for like 5 years now and they're still not up to where Apple was at M1 launch :(
Devs are just not motivated on the Windows side, at least not yet.
@@JeffGeerlingYes!! I dont know why Apple is the only company who can do things right. I want to be able to use something other than Apple.
@@Kevin-oj2uo Apple does not have the entire business world behind it, including most datacenters across the planet with installed x86 hardware to contend with.
Dang this makes me want to take it back.. Finally someone telling the truth
But…but…THE BENCHMARKS!
The most real evaluation of AI features all year. Love this!
Give the software some time man even I remember with M1 at starting most apps runned shit too let the developers make the apps natively for windows arm atleast like apple 2 years of transition but Snapdron X elite is solid so far in every aspect Linus dropped a video today and he looks happy reviewing them
Yeah I mean said I bet it’s gonna get better so I’m banking on it. Fingers crossed
@@RaidOwlDoubt it! MSFT hasn’t even fulfilled its promises to use the NPU. All copilot+ functions are still off MSFT servers! Maybe by 2027.
I mean it isn't exactly day one either. This is like the 3rd attempt from microsoft to have windows on arm.
I can forgive the gaming side of things. I can forgive not having all of Adobe collection of apps ready to work. What I cannot overlook is old printers not synching with the laptop. That is unacceptable.
Do you think the situation will improve with this machine?
All I wanted was a regular ass keyboard screen and battety to remote.
Seems that it can't even do that.
I’m just looking to run Microsoft office and web content via Edge so it fits my use case perfectly! Thanks for convincing me this machine is right for my use case.
Agree. This is my exact use case as well. MacOS is just unusable (at least for me, I tried a lot).
Finally got it connected to the copier at work. Then I needed to print on 11x17, it's not even showing paper options. Anyone? Considering returning it. My other laptop is the Surface Laptop 4, works great. What is the point of this if it doesn't even work easily with everything? I'm not a computer genious either.
Why the F does it have a touch screen that no one is going to use
I bet there are people complaining that this thing can’t even make phone calls 👀
Just buy a chromebook.
You got my like!
At least it can natively browse pictures out of the box, witch is more than what macOS can do.
Gottem!
What an uniformed statement
Windows sucks in general. But this is how monopol works. Your product doesnt have to be good because customers will buy it anyway. What will you buy for casual gamer? Linux? Lets be serious.
I am not saying this review don't have great points but for a lot of people this may not be you and yes there was a bug or two but don't let this guy have you thinking apple got it down pack because he talks about steam but talks about apple (come on now apple not known for games at all or can play game just about at all) also a lot of reviews talk about the bugs but most of them says how it's a great buy or great pc but you have to keep your mind in check by checking for what works and what does not apple didn't just have everythng ready in a day. there is a lot of things to like but a lot of his issues sound like gamer issues..... and to be honest if you a gamer more than likely this ain't for you anyway. im telling you this is solid it's worth while computer. for the most part for a lot of people this will be the computer you will want screen wise I don't think a lot of poeple beating it specially if you are not worried about oled because then you could save even more and the plus acutally does well. but I am not saying one side or an other perfect you have to look and see what works for you. (don't forget apple prices) and you still not getting a touch screen.
Nah, I’m with Brett here, if you need a word processor with internet browsing and nothing more, buy a Chromebook instead.
Or stick to a x86 based machine until the software is resolved, but this is what the 3rd time windows has tried to migrate now…
@@adam03957 okay I own one of these and seen layers and seen it run the stuff and for most this is that computer (factor in price) I’ve own a Chromebook and it CAN NOT DO ALL THUS CAN DO 100% and people are adding more and more to arm with chrome it is what it is and android apps. You don’t get nothing more. Oh and if you know how Linux apps. But most people won’t know how to run and get Linux.
(For everyone here look around at more and more reviews) don’t take my word or his word.
I'm with you on that one. @@adam03957
I want a computer that works great now, not in a year from now. I don’t care about the touch screen - Windows always sucked at touch controls ever since Windows 10. x86 Windows laptop is superior for games, ARM MacBook is superior for work. Maybe this will change in a year, but there would be newer laptops at that point.
Can we install linux on it? Can you try Pop OS? PLEASE??????
I have just got the Surface Pro 11. Just got it this afternoon.
Just get a USB-C charger if you do not like the Surface connector.
Give it some time lah... macs with M1s had compatibility issues when they came out as well. I remember Premiere Pro just randomly crashing on my work M1 Ultra machine, just wiping out everything that was not saved yet. Had to edit everything from scratch multiple times just for one video.
Now it's fine. Doesn't have the samw problem anymore. So, yeah... give it some time.
Yes, but we are four years old, and Windows on ARM has been alive 3X longer than Apple Silicon! Really the time has past for fans to keep reeling that excuse out!
@andyH_England fair point. Tho it feels like previous windows on arm is nth but poop 💩. So this feels a bit new lmao
There are better options than premiere in mac, men
@4everzapy yeah, just coz my boss had the whole adobe* suite subscribed, i had to bear with it... sadly
wow its microsoft brand sir
Sure for gaming and photo video editing software needs to catch up and it's not ready yet. But this does not need hardware upgrade. As time goes software should catch up. For many folks who are not in gaming and heavy editing but for web browsing, CZcams, word, PowerPoint excel, Netflix, hulu, prime, zoom, microsoft teams, running a VMware, and other such apps, at least this new snapdragorn based computers are providing much improved battery life over other alternatives. And it runs much cooler. This itself is a big step in right direction. Stating do not buy is a stretch and misleading.
I wouldn’t buy it simply because of the rounded corners on the display itself. Let alone other issues.
I think the windows world just needs more time to move to arm. Apple has a handful of hardware configurations, and has had years of experience. I want arm to take off for windows. Apple is like China, they can say what they are doing and do it. MS has a lot more to deal with.
Solid review that I wanted to see. I've been hopeful and excited for this new chip's performance, but Windows/Microsoft has releases that are half-baked, and I was expecting this. I don't think it will fail, but it's a good idea to let this mature for another year, probably 2. I also don't give a shit about the AI features currently either. I just want that trifecta of battery, performance, and build with Windows to be running on it first.
Microsoft need spend some money like apple did for companys to compile their programs for arm
The difference is that Microsoft has an ecosystem with far more software companies involved than Apple. Its hilarious that you are blaming Microsoft for this. Your review is pointless considering a thousand other reviews had already mentioned that game makers have not updated their software to work with the Copilot+ PC's yet. You are blaming Microsoft for other companies not doing their work yet.
It is no different than a new version of a Windows operating system coming out. Many companies don't have new software and drivers for it available when the new operating system first comes out. Also, with competition from Intel and AMD (and possibly Nvidia soon), many software companies were not going to develop updates for a Qualcomm CPU chip until they saw the initial laptops arrive.
Business users and artists are in great shape since the Adobe and Microsoft software works great on it and makes up a large amount of their needs. Other companies will be on board as more of the laptops hit the market.
I’m blaming Microsoft for releasing a product where users will have a bad experience for lots of apps, crazy right? It’s almost like they could have given devs more time and support or something…I know I know this all crazy talk.
@@RaidOwl That is catch 22 when we are talking about a new chip that has never been seen in the market. In this case everyone needed to see the chip run correct with speed and low power to jump on board, Right now the computer is great for business users. The main thing missing is games. Game makers had a reason to be wary since games use huge amounts of resources. Most current versions by all mfg's (MS, Asus, Dell, etc) with Snapdragon only have 16 GB of memory. The Surface version with 32 GB of RAM is not expected to be available for another month or more. My only complaint is that Microsoft doesn't have this tested with a compatible equal to their Surface Thunderbolt dock to provide extra ports for multiple monitors.
Go watch Wendell’s video
Prism has a lot of promise, but it's not there yet for a $1400 piece of hardware. Gaming is null and void. Do I think it's cool? Yep. Would I buy it in it's current form? NO WAY.
I am more curious how this will work with linux 6.10
10:04 i am pissed, ok now?
Wow, good thing I've just chose Pro 10 vs Pro 11. I'm receiving that tomorrow. Great video!
disagree - this is WAY better than i expected after seeing RT years ago...the fact that its in the same ballpark as apples stuff is amazing since apple has what, like two models now with just memory and shape differences? MS/Qualcomm has done this with more device diversity than apple has and it works THIS good on a gen 1 product?!?!?! apple is at gen 3 and the fact that this can keep up in most cases impresses me, i expected much less personally and since all i use my laptops for is web and office, i WANT one!!!
The get one haha. It’s a well made machine with solid battery life for the most part.
@@RaidOwl i tried to get my boss to buy me one to try out (I'm a LANTech) but she told me to wait so I'm just grumpy hahaha...its a good review of course, I understand your take...im biased against apple :/
I as an mac user even thought maybe they have something up there sleeves this time. But now I got proven again that’s not the case. At least not in its currents form. And even when it gets better, they will probably hit another roadblock, because I get the feeling there foundation is build with care like let’s say the Rosetta 2 translation layer.
Surface connector here.. what are your thoughts regarding ARM on the desktop? Do you think desktop ARM will eventually replace x86?
For Apple it already has. For windows…I hope so.
I hope for RISC instead open hardware no licenses
MS has all its Azure architecture running x86, all this stuff would have to move. Apple is lucky in that it doesnt have this kind of thing to worry about as much.
Nope! Desktop PC are made for serious gamers or professional creators. Snapdragon desktop PC would an utter joke! Would it even work with a RTX 4090?
The issue here is that of expectations and what Microsoft has planned for the future.
Windows 11 on ARM can do certain things and can run x86 applications and some x64 applications.
Microsoft are in a no win situation. They cannot do an Apple and abandon Intel.
They will not go ARM only but they need to make sure devs offer applications for both x64 & ARM.
Apple had little software accessibility, or variety when it transitioned from X86 to ARM. I love my snapdragon Sasmsung Edge. I feel you're easily depressed..... chill out man... enjoy your ARM low fan noise long battery beauty. I am.
You got all that out of one video of mine? Lol well I’m def enjoying my ARM…on my MacBook.
Waiting for linux support before moving to Arm.
The intro conclusion was dumb… new processor and thinking all apps are compatible is beyond my mind! Not even mac managed to get it right at the beginning 🤦🏻♂️😂 He got angry and started deleting my replies…. I criticize your expectations before testing the device. You did exactly what you criticize about me “not seeing the whole video before commenting” 😂 again I criticize your expectations of a new arm processor thinking it will work like a x86 with all the apps 😂🤦🏻♂️
"oh, It can't game" < dumb
"oh, it does not run all app natively" < dumb
Go check if it can play Crysis 🤦🏻♂️😂
Do you muppets even watch the video before commenting anymore…?
@@RaidOwl do you stpd dumb people read the comment before replying? “Introduction conclusion” click anything on your brain 🤔🤦🏻♂️😂 Many dumb people thinking that a new processor will be as good on software and a x86 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️ I criticize expectations of the device you had before having it on your hand. No need to test drive the device to know it wont 🤦🏻♂️😂
@@RaidOwl he got angry and started deleting my replies 😂😂
Lol nobody deleted anything you weirdo
@@RaidOwl dumb…
Apple doesn't give a crap about legacy resources. And since Apple doesn't have the eco system that Windows x86. The Windows eco system is way more involved. I'd love to sit you down in front of my customers with Industrial IoT hardware that Windows run. They will laugh you out of their building if you suggest that a Mac could do anything they need. Also, you failed to mention that APPLE is the most closed source Hardware and Software platform in existence. The beauty of Windows is that it runs on so many hardware platforms. Apple couldn't do that if they tried. Before you call something a shit product, remember that this is bigger than your simple use case, and requires way more moving parts than Apple has ever had to manage! I recognize that the launch isn't perfect. But wow, you really need to realize that the world is more complex them a simple Apple laptop. If that is your only comparison, then you should rethink your goal as a reviewer.
Lol my goal as a “reviewer” is to share my experience with it. I don’t give a shit about your customers.
@kevlarian *"And since Apple doesn't have the eco system that Windows x86."*
LOL what Windows ecosystem? 😂There's no such ecosystem. Apple connects the iPhone, Macs, iPad and all of their headphone accessories as well as their own software together. That's an ecosystem.
Hopefully you can install Linux on it.
Wife can try to help with that wiggling.. Big boys have said
i was going to get one and thanks to your video i will keep my mackbook pro m2 for now :) Thank you
Good choice
Windows....stil sucks.
Apple fanbois are crazy.
Are they?
At least software can be improved overtime.
The only problem is: Windows evolves, but backwards...
They have said that for 12 years since the first Windows on ARM machine was sold! I would not buy something on the promise of tomorrow especially that in three months AMD, M4 and Intel will all come out with better chips.
Wait, what? 10:38 If you're still watching this, you're my surface connector but @ 2:18 you said you hate the surface connector, so you hate those of us that watched it to the end? Oh Brett! 🥲😭😂
At least it's blue
Try installing Linux
Bro is a professional yapper
Anime pfp
LOL....piss off Linux users... Nice one. As a Linux user, I'm not pissed 🙂
Haha that was a reference to my last video
Yeah, pretty much the video I would have made. 🙂
Apple managed to make everyone on the PC side wet their collective pants. I mean, Apple wasn't even first - the original Surface RT was Windows on ARM and had many of the same problems. And here's the thing - yes, "all day" battery life is nice - but how many of us actually use our laptops where we can't plug them in? (And remember, most modern laptops charge over USB-C so we're not even talking about a special charger anymore - the same one that can charge your phone and tablet can also charge your laptop...) And Apple only has 17% of the computer market - it's #4, so this is a clear case of massive overreaction (or... more likely... using Apple to get people to buy new PCs... I mean this is the *third* time Apple has changed CPUs 68000->PowerPC->Intel->ARM)
Apple can get away with this because it has a hostage audience - if you like macOS, you have exactly one source for laptops - Apple. That's not even remotely true for Windows PCs.
It's bad enough forcing Windows 11 on everyone when it's so badly done, but then adding Copilot+ to the mix just upped the ante and then doing it as a reason to push ARM - apparently not revealing the minimum TOPS for the NPU to Intel or AMD for example, just made this inane. Worse, if you just bought an Intel Ultra series CPU based laptop in order to get into AI, well, screw you since that's just 10 TOPS. You'll have to wait until the next gen CPUs come out at 45 TOPS... if Microsoft decides to support non-ARM devices for Copilot+.
Assuming you even have a use for Copilot+ because like the presenter, I really do not. In fact, I really don't want it on my machine as I consider it a grave security issue.
It's a mess. Fortunately, contrary to what many tech sites are reporting, you CAN buy the business models of Surface devices, which I expect will continue to offer Intel/AMD versions, and not one Windows PC company, not even Microsoft, has committed to switching 100% to ARM.
I still think arm windows laptops could be more successful this go around, not because they actually improved software compatibility/performance, but because a lot of average users just don't use that much software. If they have a browser, email, video playback, and mobile ish games, they'll be perfectly content.
Yeah but thats a huge risk too cuz the average user is gonna run into a piece of software that isn't emulated well and go "this laptop sucks!"
I see it as they are making the same mistakes as with the 8cx chip. People don't know what they are buying because they don't know what software it will run. Qualcomm does not make it easier to find a list of common software that will or will not run well enough. People don't want to be the guinea pigs for software compatibility because they plan to use their machines as opposed to tinker with it. It's far too expensive for people that are just looking for a casual machine.
It's not the first fail of Windows on ARM. At this point I don't think they can hack it at all. If the world moved on to ARM, Linux might actually take over on account of running on ARM for literal decades now.
If you don't get support or sufficient performance of your usual windows apps on ARM, then there's no additional pain of switching to Linux, only the gain of a working eco system of open source apps.
x86 & Windows live and die together it seems.
Windows sucks but Linux sucks way more, so many bugs and it's way too complex to solve issues for the average user. almost zero support by common software is worse than x86 support on ARM.
Linux users just don't want to talk about it/nor admit it to themself.
@@untmlit's not really a problem the users or even most distro devs can fix. That's why most of us don't want to talk about it.
Besides that, some people are Linux users to actively avoid commercial software.
Half the problem is that the usual way Linux ends up with having commercial software is that some company takes over a beloved community project... Which gets immediately forked for a libre variant, and virtually nobody uses the original.
@@untml True, it can be too hard for the average user trying it on the desktop. Buggy software support can be worse than no software support however. I'm quite positive more people will use Linux than x86 emu on Windows for ARM for example.
Also keep in mind, that Chromebooks and Android devices are at their core Linux systems, that are widespread, running on ARM and easy to use.
SteamOS is also a Linux system, albeit running on x86 hardware, and from what I've heard it's running rather nicely for those Steamdeck users.
And those are just GUI uses, let's not talk about the millions of Linux based machines running 24/7 as little router boxes in homes today.
Linux doesn't have the common software support because it hasn't been relevant enough to the developers of that software so far.
The buggyness is a function of intermediate users. Linux systems once setup don't tend to delete their users data or disintegrate themselves, as windows sometimes does. So if you got a preinstalled Linux box you'd probably be fine.
But if there's an intermediate user that thinks they know computers and tries to install Linux they're immediately confronted with so many conflicting choices that their chances of success are less than optimal.
That is to say, if you get a corporation or large enough commercial interest behind it, it can become a viable alternative, as it has in all those special use cases.
Question is, is Microsoft failing at ARM going to generate that large enough interest for common desktop use.
There's also the push towards cloud services with things like photoshop, that the OS might not even matter at all in the long run as far as app support goes. In such a future I'd strongly advice anyone against Microsofts big brother OS (Recall *wink wink*), on account of privacy concerns alone.
Having the Surface Pro ARM, I can confirm that this eats through the battery when multitasking. I assume it is a bug, not because it only uses performance cores. It is noticeable. If you do one thing at a time, like watching media, it is solid, though my SP gets about half the SOT that I get on my 15-inch MB Air M2 (larger battery). Other reviews also confirm this is the state as of early July.
For me, the crux is the need for more drivers and ARM support. No Google Drive integrated into the file system is a deal-breaker. My paid-for VPN is not compatible at the moment. My 2-3 month old printer and scanner do not work. They may or may never get support, so it is a mess for my personal case.
I currently have no issues with Macs, so why would I keep the SP? There really is no good reason. With Apple doing some great deals, Macbooks are very close in price to these new X Elite chips. Do yourself a favour and buy a Mac if you want ARM, or wait for Intel and AMD new chips if you prefer Windows. Avoid the X-Elite, maybe Gen 2 or in 6 months when these are half-price.
Troll Alert! Troll Alert!
Another Apple fanboy reviewing a Windows product....
Where?
7:23 😂😂😂
This was hilarious to watch subbed
I have bought the 15" model and I can say hands down much better than anything I've experienced. No issues with the magnet, this review seems biased in a way. Very happy with this purchase and can recommend, plus you get Copilot which saves me a ton of time tbh.
Why the hate? No clue
What has copilot saved you time with?
You get Copilot even without buying those new Copilot+PCs