Sonic Adventure with Heroes Physics
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- čas přidán 30. 03. 2021
- The sequel to the Adventure 2 video made in 2019! Been wanting to do this for a long time now, and I'm glad I was able to wrap this up in a week.
Mods by MainMemory: / mainmemorysadx
Music used:
Sonic Adventure Trap EP Volume 1
• /// Sonic Adventure DX...
Sonic Adventure Trap EP Volume 2
• /// Sonic Adventure DX...
Continue - Sonic 3 & Knuckles
Battle: Casino Area - Sonic Heroes
Bullet Station - Sonic Heroes
Can't Stop, So What! (Metal Harbor) - Sonic Adventure 2
Thumbnail by: RGXSuperSonic
Sections
0:16 - Introduction
1:17 - SA1 Physics Overview
2:25 - Sonic Heroes Physics Overview
4:29 - Gameplay Differences
8:50 - Bonus Stuff
11:10 - Conclusion - Hry
None of this would be possible if it wasn't for MainMemory creating the Physics Swap mod in the first place. So a special thanks to her.
0:16 - Introduction
1:17 - SA1 Physics Overview
2:25 - Sonic Heroes Physics Overview
4:29 - Gameplay Differences
8:50 - Bonus Stuff
11:10 - Conclusion
Why do you tell us that?
What is the music called for 7:04
@@MariaBernadetteGaluraFajardo Because giving credit is the right thing to do?
@@thecollector8222 Going Down from Sonic Adventure
@@TZMHBT thanks
Really surprised there’s no conversion mod for Big. He’s in heroes, and it would be really funny to see him blitz his levels at high speeds.
I mean Big's levels are just fishing, though it would be odd to compare him suddenly running around in Emerald Coast.
Faster fishing tho
Imagine Big blitzing his way to a pond at high speed just to sit down and fish some more
It is in the conversion if you wanna try it out yourself. I think mech tails is the optimal conversion for him
@@TZMHBT You said no one was getting left behind, poor choice of words
SA 1 and 2: Nice balanced out speed.
Heroes: YOU WANT FAST HUH!?
Sonic Heroes devs saw Sonic Advance 2 and got ideas
Boost Formula Games: .....I AM SPEED
Well, SEGA saw how fast Heroes was, they made Sonic slow in 06.
When Sonic got launched across the map with the Super Sonic physics I lost my shit
"Even without wings, I can still fly!"
@@Aviii_ Lol, That's Exactly what I was thinking!!!
@@Aviii_ "...Right?"
amy moving that slow in SAdx almost makes sense when you consider the fact that she is doing all that while holding a giant absurdly heavy mallet with 1 hand.
amy is probably actually jacked in the sonicverse. no wonder sonic is scared of marrying her.
an obsessed stalker with a gigachad body wielding a mallet that big.
also, her hammer is supposedly made of gold, which is even worse when you consider how heavy gold is.
Sonic Team employee: Hey, how’s work coming along on Sonic Heroes?
Sonic Team programmer: Great. We’ve just finished changing the floors into ice and the walls into flypaper
Good work, once you're done there can you make the spindash just kind of randomly decide when it's going to actually work?
@phootaphan9166 It's not random, your teammates have to be behind you.
"I'm also comparing tails, knuckles & amy so no one's getting left behind"
Big: "am I a joke to you?"
Yes
Gamma too
@@Diwasho I guess it's because Gamma doesn't really have an equivalent in Heroes in terms of control, while I know that Omega exists, he controls like Knuckles right?
Metal sonic too
I appreciate that you accurately described SA1 Sonic's physics at the beginning. I wish they had always stuck with that smoothness.
@Kuriz, the plural being 'Kurizes' Monkey's paw: now all Sonic games are nothing but running in straight lines. Seriously though, one of the biggest advantages of SA1 physics was the kind of jumps you could pull off. Spindash + jumping at the height of your momentum could launch you like a cannonball (bonus points if you have even a slight incline to ramp off of), and you had enough height + low enough gravity to pull off some really neat stuff. Heroes was the beginning of the end of big jumps, as the spindash is gimmicked, air momentum is nerfed, and the camera hates fun more than any other 3D Sonic.
@@petergriscom3431 SA2 was a good middle ground and where he felt the best to play IMO
@@jeremyabbott4537 SA2 Sonic/Shadow felt pretty good. The spindash jumps were still good in SA2, even if some levels weren't as open. SA2 also had the best rail-grinding in the series, mastering it is incredibly satisfying.
My only gripe is that mapping every action to one button was a mistake. Somersaulting when you intended to spindash, bouncing when you intended to light dash, whistling when you intended to do anything but whistle, mash Y to magic hands/sunglasses, etc. It's something I eventually got used to and mastered, but the DC had 4 face buttons and a D-pad that had _nothing_ mapped to it, and it bothers me that they did it this way. My guess is that they thought having that many actions on different buttons would get confusing, there's probably an interview floating around somewhere saying as much.
@@petergriscom3431 yeah that's why I got the PC mod to put light dash on Y
@@jeremyabbott4537 Cool. I'll have to try that when I get a decent PC. I also forgot to mention that I love the scoring system from SA2, getting points and compliments for doing stylish stuff was so much fun. It's always a treat when you find a new one that you didn't even realize existed.
After getting all of the emblems, I always give Amy her Heroes' physics, it makes her so much more fun to play as.
I love Amy's gameplay in sa1, but I can see your point.
I prefer giving her Sonic's or Tails regular SA1 physics, it makes her a bit faster but it doesn't break the game. Even Knuckles physics is fine.
Sonic was so fast he smashed right into the fourth wall
Bruh I think he hit Barry Allen
@@anthonywhite4656 9:12 He did, there xD
It's like that one Sonic Short with Sonic and the Secret Rings, when he's going to Night Palace and uses Speed Break but smashes into the camera.
@@thegamerator10 Fully upgraded Secret Rings Sonic was nuts. You pretty much had to have the level memorized, because he moved so fast you couldn't see half of what was coming 😂
and Knuckles is Knuckles...
Knuckles: *OH NO!*
The Super Sonic mod seems to only affect his aerial movement. Normal running on ground, but God forbid you touch a spring.
To be fair, that's basically how it is in the Perfect Chaos fight. Super Sonic's speed really isn't faster than Sonic's. But like he DOES get flung if you hit a dash pannel and get sent off a ramp. It's noticable here because the Perfect Chaos fight was built with the flinging in mind whereas normal stages aren't.
It's honestly fun to jump around with those physics in Heroes since those stages are much more open, that's kinda why I suggested it.
@@theorangeslice9678 isnt super sonic in adventure always technically in the air so to speak? so he like, has a rubberband-eske speed boosting whenever you accelerate and get shot in the air further.
I always felt like it was strange to make Sonic decently fast in his games while everyone else was moderately slow like humans. It makes more sense to me that, since characters like Amy and Knuckles are still animals, they would still be pretty quick on their feet. Sonic would just be moderately/noticeably faster because he has abnormal speed.
In short the reaction players have should always be "wow, Sonic is fast!", never "wow, these other characters are slow"
Looking at you srb2
@@Ersa_ srb2 did it pretty well , just that the thok is a pretty lame ability
@@societygoku6376 yeah thats what im trying to say here, like, sonic does feel faster but the thok is so lame and can only be so useful
@societygoku6376 Skill issue, tbh. Thok is very useful.
@@Ersa_ the thok is incredibly useful what are you on 😭😭
It's crazy to think that the power characters' speed in Heroes roughly equals to Knuckles' speed in Adventure.
They felt so slow in comparison to the speed ones, in Adventure there isn't that much of adifference between Knuckles and Sonic.
It just shows how fast the gameplay is in Heroes
"Mom can I get Sonic Heroes?"
"We have Sonic Heroes at home."
The Sonic Heroes at home:
But sonic heroes can be at home naturally-
Sonic but he's possessed by the Mario speedrunning demon.
sonic is easily faster then mario speedrunner demon
@@lemonate6163 Please don't be triggered. This Is just a joke based on no facts but videogame logics xD
@@emishimaru-sama6449 ok
@@lemonate6163 you didn't watch the Something about the Subspace Emissary video, did you?
@@amazinggamermkii1904 No. why would i? theres no point to watching it.
Cool shit bro, always kinda wished heroes got a sequel like adventure 2 was to the first. Could’ve been dope as hell
Shadow the Hedgehog is
ikagura true dat
@@ikagura Agree!!!
8:04 Do it... Give Tails Big's Physics
Speed in games really isn't easy to pull off as is clear from this. However, the controls can be improved quite easily. Turn control must be taken away the faster you go in order to make it easier to move such that the rate at which you turn at regular speed is the same at max speed. That's a simple change. The analog stick represents the vector you want to move in relative to the character position. Speed then modulates the rate at which the character turns such that the character is facing the same direction as the vector. For normal walking speed, this can be instantaneous or near-instantaneous; for high speeds, this can be really slow. The method of interpolation can of course be non-linear and the curve fine-tuned so as to get things feeling just right.
The return of the King
If only sonic heroes was on steam so we can swap the heroes physics for the sa1/sa2 ones. Now that sounds really cool.
Well, sorry if I'm late, but there is a Heroes PC Port, but it's now Abandoware and you'll have to search for some fixes so that it works on current Windows systems. And there's also a physics swap mod for that as well, just not as handy as the Adventure one from what I've seen, having to change the values yourself.
@@noone5454 Oh snap. Thanks man
The springs under the Heroes physics shot my dude Sonic straight into the stratosphere...
When amy showed up i lost it
Good mod and really well-put together video. Super organized and fun to watch. Good luck! :)
This only reaffirms how much I loved Sonic Heroes for its high speed.
This is an impressive and informative presentation. Thank you for the effort you went through to pull the resources together to enact this, for actually enacting this, and for presenting it to us and the effort involved in all of that, plus editing.
It reminds me how much I'd love for an open-world Sonic Adventure-esque Sonic 3D title to be tried again - even with all that is in significant need of improvement.
and here we are, soon to experience "kinda Adventure-esque" Frontiers :>
though it's more like Unleashed physics, I hope it will have at least some momentum
@@stasyandr563it was nowhere near unleashed physics and the momentum could’ve been annoying that you just don’t get to explore because your out of boost in a pit
And one more thing, this serves to show to the adventure-gameplay critics that indeed Sonic Adventure always had a very well tuned physics and indeed you were able to control the characters and at the same time have speed. This only shows how Sonic team, sega and whoever took control of the sonic games development after 2004 only destroyed the series and to this day some people still talk s*t of how unplayable sonic 3d is and that they should stick to boost/2d formula. Like, wth?
There's this clip in one of Moist Critikal's podcast (the Noah Munk one) where one of the guys goes randomly on vague tangent on Sonic and it's so clear the dude barely and I mean barely play any Sonic games but still was talking shit about it it's unnironacly very funny but not for the reasons he intended
Like they use Unleashed on the Wii and Adventure DX as example and I'm like "Oh so the bad ports r enough proof? Dude every franchise as a bad port at least somewhere"
You deserve way more veiws and subs for this dude this is such a well made video
Thank you!
0:42 ngl, they be in sinc, jammin to tha beat
I remember explaining the bump in acceleration and the twitchy nature of turning in another Sonic Heroes video to someone who didn't think there was a change in physics.
My guess about he dash pad thing, is that dash pads on SA1 set your character top speed to value X, taking into consideration the original physics of the game, and when you put in the modified physics the character's top speed is instead Y, so the dash pads make you slower overall.
That's most likely true considering in SA2 speedruns they skip dash pads that lock your speed normally preventing you from flying through walls.
Neat video! Thanks for uploading!
Hmmm... heroes physics knuckles and Amy look fun to play with here. 🤔
I always loved how Sa1 animations matched the speed stats one is in.
Seeing this makes me see the pain devs go through balancing sonic characters throughout the series (well at least Dreamcast era )
I honestly wouldn't mind playing SA1 like this.
7:10 Surprised the heroes physics is faster there, always found when running along Hang Castle at the end of the level with Heroes was slower than the descend in Speed Highway in SA1.
Just shows you how long they had to make the stages lol
So this is what Sonic meant when he said “BLAST AWAY”
XLT I can't see your comment for some reason but the track at 2:25 is the Casino Boss from Sonic Heroes
86,000 views in recommended. They cheat us yearly. 😅
big fan of the music choice, groovy!
Nice Comparison Video 🔥
It's funny, I remember encountering the spring issue back in like 2007 when hacking in Amy as a playable character to Windy Valley with an action replay for my gamecube. As soon as I saw it listed, I knew what the example was going to be lol. I tried so hard back then to complete the level, but to no avail.
The spring and control locking issues make me nostalgic for Sonic World. Some old custom stages would have bugs here and there when new releases of the game came out. I also remember it could cause camera issues sometimes.
I remember fixing some of the bugs myself since you could go straight into the stage files. Made me feel like a programmer.
Watched the SA2 vid and was like “cool there’s one with the first game” and just realized this vids only a week old lol
8:33 "Knock knock, it's knuckles!"
great video!
6:31 "aight imma head out"
At first, I was a little sad Sonic didn't keep his poor traction from heroes, but then I realized its better here as the game is only about controlling 1 character at a time, not 3. You'd want Sonic to be more precise in Adventure, whereas in Heroes, the speed characters' low traction and high acceleration are balanced out by the other 2 team members having lower acceleration and better traction. I might give this mod a try. Looks fun.
This video made me realize how much of a difference the run cycle makes in a sonic game. The ones with a lot of sped up up/down movement look bad, and the best looking ones are where sonic has a smoother animation designed for fast running.
You should watch "The Animation of Sonic Games" on CZcams then, it'll teach you a lot about game animation
The runing animation is dope
Sonic with the Super Sonic physics looks hella fun lol
Amy’s speed in base SA isn’t a big issue because she’s not physically gifted like Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles are. She can’t roll into a ball nor can she maintain their speeds because that’s not the point with her. If you play her in her own stages, her stages are built around that fact and show her struggling with a badnik that we know any of those 3 would tear through just to really drive that point home.
that speed shoes swerving bit that made me go "hey, isn't that literally how sonic battle R controls?"
completely different game, yeah, but the similarity shocked me. I just think its neat
If that's how Sonic Battle R controls I want no part of it lol
Beautiful spooper sonic physics lol
Pretty cool
The "No Way!" Music for Amy was too funny
Imagine if it included Forces physics
it is like heroes, except changing direction in the air is almost nonexistent
and the amount of speed you gain is so sudden and it isn't easy to turn around when running,
its like skating in ice
Oh no.
Jumping was the worst part. Hold forward and you accelerate too fast, let off and you come to a dead stop. It felt completely unnatural.
0:45 yoo knuckles is on fire
Sonic: Gotta go FAAAASSSST!!!
The game physics: Please. Don’t. We can’t handle it. You’ll die.
The Classic 3D games: We….. don’t do that here.
Amy: What about me?
The game physics: You WILL get nothing and
Ike it young lady >:(
………..
Amy: :’(
The MODIFIED game physics: *speaks like a sassy black hairstylist* Here Guuuuuuuurllllll. You can have all of the speed with none of the drawbacks baby. Go tear your levels up GURRRRRRRLLLLL. Yasss queen!
Amy: :D
………
Knuckles: …….. So….. this is what it’s like to be on hard drugs…. Unlike Sonic….. I don’t chuckle.
Time to try swapping in the physics for all the other games, mixing and matching and tweaking, until the perfect physics combination is figured out.
Sonic now lives up to his name
9:26
Sonic be like
"Oh no spiky balls, I ain't touchin dat!"
Knuckles was vibin with the beat
if only I knew where to find that character physics spreadsheet 😞
This is why SA1/2 are superior to Heroes and most of modern games.
Especially SA1, the level design is breathtaking and something comparable to Classic Sonic games.
If they just polished the engine further and kept level design philosophy of SA1, we would get constant gold
Although I enjoy SA1's levels, they're generally quite basic and the learning curve is usually the same "tight spin-dash jump". That, and extra rings and lives aren't a good enough incentive to get the most out of them considering the generally easy difficulty and the removal of archaic design choices like limited continues.
I loved the '3 sub-stages' on each level, at least for Sonic. How the guy above said, but for those times ufff
Now just boost like there's no tomorrow and if you stop or move aside the game will automatically put you on the way :^/ that happens on SA1 too but isn't too annoying
Well Heroes takes the most inspiration from the classic games in terms of aesthetic and level design, but regardless, I don't think that makes the Adventure games objectively superior to any other game. It's all about perspective and how the many parts compliment each other.
Maybe it's just me, but I feel like it would make more sense for DC model to represent the original SA1 physics considering it was the first SA1 model, but you know, I don't really care
It's not real Heroes physics unless you've got butter shoes
This is actually so cute I wanna try
You should do SA1 or 2 with Shadow The Hedgehog's physics
That’s a downgrade not an upgrade
@@reallyhimongod Exactly
Now do heroes with adventure physics!!
this music in the background firee
Dude went so fast he stopped dead and still outran the Orca. The fuck.
The whale could get finicky even with original physics. the adventure series is up there with the early pokemon games as glitchy classics
You actually did SADX Super Sonic, wow.
SADX Big physics in all three games next?
Maybe idk lol, I've never played the PC (only have GC) version of Heroes so I would have to look into getting the game and getting mods setup for it.
i apologize, but when the beat kicked in, i only focused on the song. I CANT HELP IT ITS SO GOOD
You mean the one in the introduction? Yeah that one's fire, a guy named SonicFreak made that one. All music I used is linked in the description!
Big was left behind, rip fatcat.
6:31 LOOKS LIKE TEAM SONICS BLASTING OFF AGAIN!
You should try it with Sonic Forces physics where the acceleration of Sonic's running speed is exponential, as in:
.05, .11, .24, .45, 1, 2.5, 10, 100.
i think if you gave sadx sonic a half step from sadx to heroes max speed and used heroes tails' acceleration i think it would make for a sonic geared towards people who want to go faster than sadx sonic does, sure its less rewarding on the speed (as its much easily gained) but honestly i think it would be interesting to see
6:24 I think those guys who made the "Unbeatable" theme song for Pokémon actually meant the stage, not Ash. =)
I have physic swap set to SA2 and springs are not a problem, I encountered this issue with SA2 when I change to Heroes physics
I've seen countless videos of Heroes physics in SA1 or SA2 but, what about Adventure physics in Heroes?? 👀
Hmm
It is actually a mod. And well, they are packaged with modified levels to make the game playable.
@@lpfan4491 where can I get this
@@axicon2232 "Complete Physics Preset & Stage Fix Combo-Patch" on gamebanana. It still plays nothing like Adventure in reality,(Because Heroes obviously uses the physics diffrently) but it certainly is a lot more easy to control in my book.
@@lpfan4491 Looks promising. Thanks.
2:10 I wouldn't really say "do justice". Since in sa2 she's shafted, heroes she's the baby mode team captain, and in 06 she's ya know...
To this day even, I still consider SA1 to have pretty great controls for Sonic. I think that Sega made him too fast in the future games, and the introduction of the boost gameplay in my opinion took away from the exploration aspect that Adventure was built around.
I have not played Frontiers, wondering if he controls well given he's in an open world.
Heroes physics feel like driving an army tank while overdosing on xanax.
god i love heroes physics
This mod is just plain catastrophic.
Catastrophic? Naw that's overblowing it. For some characters, it does help, the only real bad thing are the scripts that can break as a result of the physics change.
That sounds like a nightmare
This sounds like a nightmare
I wish I have the ability to make a mod for Sonic Adventure 2 where Sonic & Shadow has the movement of Sonic Adventure 1, more smoother movement just like S.A.1.
As well as smoother models for the characters, still looks the same but with much higher poly count.
Can you do "Sonic Heroes with Adventure Physics"? Sonic Heroes runs on the same game engine as the Adventure games!
8:35 Okay, me, don't say it... Don't say it... Don't say i- & KNUCKLES! I'm sorry, I had to get that off my chest.
I wanted to say that too lmao-
I never noticed how bad the physics were in Heroes as a kid, or at least enough to actually put into words what exactly was wrong with them. But I do remember jumping a lot to reset my momentum or switching to flight, because running on the ground next to any sort of cliff or pit was suicide.
Well this mod doesn't replicate the friction 100% as characters don't land with full speed.
I think most of that is bc the level design for heroes was designed for those said physics, so you wouldnt notice
Frontiers open world has adventure level fluidity
Love grand metropolis
It would be awesome if Shadow The Hedgehog (2005) was done in Heroes physics, because both games were done by Renderware.
That's sonics true power
SONIC HEROES PHYSICS
Nice! I can play SA1 but it stinks now!
is there a link to the spreadsheet in the video? I kind of want to compare Sa1 and Sa2 physics numbers directly
You should have used Big's Heroes physics (and for Gamma maybe Omega's?)
Amy's Heroes's physics seem to be the best to use for any character (besides the game breaks like springs) What do you think?
My first sonic game was heroes, so I always compare every sonic game to that. When I went to play adventure 2 battle, I HATED the acceleration, it was SO SLOW