Should I buy this 2013 Nissan Leaf 24 kWh with 40 % battery degradation?
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- čas přidán 3. 08. 2024
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Robert Llewelyn of Fully Charged has a video of the battery swap he did on his 2011 Leaf - he upgraded to not only a new battery but a bigger capacity one. Look at it this way, if you buy it and do it up you are saving a “classic” EV to run a bit longer. May also be a good basis for a series of videos - “How I saved a Leaf that was about to die”
Big move, the car isnt done. So i agree!
Maybe I should have said “wilt” instead of die then!
"How I saved a Leaf that was about to fall." LoL
AGREE!!!!
I for one would LOVE to see a "sad" LEAF saved and made a GOOD USED CAR
I see to many "arguments" online that start with batteries last (fake short amount of time) and cost (inflated price) to change and would love to see a "BAD" battery be revived for I expect same or LESS then a modern "fuel" car engine rebuild - a "normal" repair for an older car and one not considered a "death warrant"
It’s easy for us to spend your money, but personally, I’d love to see a series of videos on how you saved this Leaf. Battery repair, or even an upgrade to the larger pack, cleaning up the paint, removing the mold and “blood stains.”
If it’s got enough range for your use case, then yes. And please do a zero mile test for a laugh 😂
1000 km challenge 😆
If people comment no, it is because they didn’t watch the entire video. I think that it would be cool to find a way to bring this old ev back to life and for your use case it would be nice
I would say No. why?
1. PTC tend to break on those ones
2. Battery is degraded but what's worse is that although the SOC is high, you can have the turtle (bad cells)
3. The whole brake system needs to be changed (and there's always the potential brake issue in cold temperature)
It was a great first gen EV but it's aging now and unless you have unlimited cash, I would look for an Ioniq EV eGolf.
You also could call Muxsan, maybe for another cooperation to replace and upgrade the battery, they also can replace CHAdeMO to CCS.
I have a 2014 Leaf with ~20% degradation. I still get 130km in summer and ~100 in winter if above freezing. Nothing has ever been broken on it other than bulbs. We will have it as a secondary short trip car till it dies. Its been super reliable and cheap to drive. This year, the tax return for driving to work was about double the cost of the electricity we spent.
My colleague bought something like this. Uses it now as a biiiiig flowerpot in the garden.
Would be interesting to see how much improvement it can get by replacing a few battery modules. Yeah, full battery replacements are super expensive but getting cheaper by the month. There are even companies working on replacements with modern cells and active cooling.
Replacing a few battery modules seems like a 2 step process: you replace some now at a lower cost than a full battery replacement, but eventually you'll need to repair the rest.
So, for me, it's either: you're ok with the car as it is or; you replace the whole battery because you think it's not that expensive.
Bjorn I've been in car since more than 35 years. When I decided to move to EV i started looking for info about ev car and 4 years ago I found your chanel.. Since that day I've move on and now I own an Ioniq 2017 that I bought following the view of your video. In all ev chanel that I am viewing there's nothing to compare with your review and test. I am in opinion that you may be the only one who can really spot the real use of the car and review the exact thing of what we need. I don't get it why you have so little view in your video.. You should be on top view of most chanel. Thanks Bjorn again you're are The Reference in yhe industry for testing ev and yes manufacturer should look to your video to improving their car as VW do as you say all the time. Keep doing the greatest job on ev review and as this video showing, I think you should do more use ev car review with this garage to help people that are looking for cheep ev car.. Many thanks Bjorn really appreciate your work..
Bjorn, my mom got a new 24kwh pack directly from Nissan and it is incredible. It actively heats itself every morning, not like the one it came with from 2012. Nissan has really improved the 24Kwh battery for the old Leaf. Cost $12,000 Canadian to do it, but very worth it. In warmer weather it gets an easy 175 kms which is awesome compared to original 120kms or so we got. You should check it out. Battery stays fairly normal after DC charge too. Not too hot like the old pack that cooked badly!
I have a 2014 pickup and 5 years ago it had the engine "blow up" and was swapped out under warranty and the "bill" was $14000 CDN for a rebuilt motor and I got ZERO more range OR performance where you GOT an UPGRADE and a BETTER car then NEW
Leaf extreme makeover, and even a cheap battery swap in future would be fantastic content.
I have a 2011 Leaf with 8 bars, and I can tell you, your real winter range is only 50km. My commute is 46km single trip with mostly 80-100km/h stretches. With temperatures around 0C and a bit of wind, I barely make it to work with a few km of range left. An important factor is the resistive heater which uses about 3kw on average. Newer Leafs have the heat pump but afaik that is only from the 30kWh Leaf which came out around 2015. But I'm not completely sure about that, I would check that if I were you. Summer range is about 60-70km.
As for driving comfort, it is the best car I ever had. It's a really comfortable car to drive. Also, the multimedia unit is pretty good for a car of that time. If you can make it with 50km range, I can for sure recommend the car if the price is good. It will make for a few interesting videos as well. Maybe you can do some other tests that you didn't do so far, like chargin curve or even 1000km challenge. That would be interesting haha.
8:00 198 QC 2822 L1/L2 vs 1 QC 13 L1/L2
This means 198 chademo sessions, 2822 chargingsessions with "slowcharging" (J1772). The other car must be reset or changed battery.
Red lines means it is balancing those cells, all normal there.
I would drive it down to at least 20% and checked cell voltages again. If cells are quite even, it can be considered to buy despite low capacity. If some cells are really bad i would stay away because of potential pack repair.
at the end of the VID he was talking about PACK REPAIRS so IMHO a FEW BAD cells would actually be a "GOOD" thing as hopefully the rest are healthy and mated with new-er cells the total capacity will return to closer to new then if it is evenly degraded across the pack
this is 6 months too early car :) 2013 second half the gen2's started to roll out. Dark interior, no electronic handbrake to die on you (button in middle console). The dark interior one also has heatpump that this does not have. Affects range a lot. And they also can be easily adopted to all batteries up to from 2022 leafs (probably beyond too). And it has no hump in the boot.
Thats the one I've got, 2013 second half, gen2, heatpump etc. I also did some battery fix ( because taxi had hammered it 80 000km per year) before full replacement. Vids on channel.
Your car must have lived in a hot country or sit at 100% for very long.. getting SOH so low with only 88k - pretty tricky in northern country. Mine was at 70% after 300k+
I like this shit please more of that kind of stuff! ❤
Enjoyed it - nice to see a bit of wear and tear!
It's an early 2013 Japanese import model with the battery bump in the boot. The heater will chew through the remaining charge in minutes. The later 2013 models had heat-pumps and a courtesy light by the charging socket, you also got extra boot space because the later models had better battery chemistry and a smaller battery pack.
Battery bump? It Is on board charger...
Thank you for this video, looking forward to the next. Hope it is possible to fix the battery, and interesting to hear how much that will cost.
Find a decent example from late 2013/early 2014 where they had the new battery chemistry. There are plenty of those samples that you can find with 75%+ SOH.
Interesting video. We have a leaf that need battery repair. Exiting to see how ElbilMek is going to fix this battery. Very good content. A lot of old leafs in Norway. Important knowledge charing..
Hmmm 1st gen, it will be a nice little run around. I have a 1.5 gen from 2015, still the perfect car around town and I've put 160,000kms on it. Still has 80-100km range weather dependent. Buy it if it's cheap 👍
Thanks Bjørn for this video. Maintenance and restoration of older EVs is an interesting topic. I would suggest looking at several cars before buying this one. You likely will find one that doesn't need as much work for a similar price. However, maybe this one would generate more interesting videos about repairs and restoration, so maybe it would be a good one for you, if not most other used car buyers.
I haven't seen any videos about Millennium Falcon for a while. Why are you looking for a replacement "press car shuttle?"
Servicing is something many EV owners moan about. The say, does it require servicing as much as a ICE. Yet they are missing the point, that while a ICE has a more complicated engine & gearbox. The rest of the car is pretty much the same. Then as the video brakes are a big issue, due to lack of physical usage. Not forgetting the EV motor & all the high voltage cables & battery to look after.
do it! mine is the same degredation. great for around town still.
A first generation this one. I had a 2012, lowed it. Swapped the battery to a 40kW. Had to change IBC once (A normal fault on these). But when the PTC(water) heather broke, and I put in a new. I found that the fuse inside the "engine" for the heather also was gone. A operation that take a day or two to manage. So I sold it, had been running 180.000 km . But regret now, would have been fun to owned as the only thing to take care of os the mech things shown here. The brakes, balljoints, sway bar linkage, (Had to service them as well) is normal to wear, and was easy to change. now I drive a 2919 40kW Leaf. Same car actually, but with some minor "upgrades".
Rob Llewellyn from Fully Charged already posted a pretty good battery swap video. Those are pretty interesting, and your subscribers would probably enjoy watching your take on the procedure. Not sure how legal it would be, Brits have a loose definition of what can be done to a vehicle while still keeping it roadworthy. A series where you buy the car, test degradation, refurbish it like you did with Millennium Falcon, then swap the battery and compare range would be pretty fun. You could also wrap the car with a more interesting color or add some Nismo parts… But you are already pretty busy testing new cars. Consider cloning yourself 😂
it is ALMOST stornberg blue so maybe a (sponsored) decal kit
7:41 LeafSpy shows 198 Quick Charges and 2822 Normal Charges. The number of QCs should not give that much SOH degradation. My gen 1.1 Leaf in Denmark from 2014 with 92.500 km and 300 QC got 81 % SOH.
He speculates that it could have been sitting at a high state of charge for long periods or been in a hot country. Given that it's in Norway the former seems most likely but you never know. Apparenlty if you charge lithium-ion to, say, 100% and don't use it that can really harm battery health. Obviously the more you do this the more damage you're causing so coming home, charging it and then leaving it charged for over 2 days every week for 10 years might really do some damage
3000 charges on a 90k car means it was charged every 30KM!
Bjorn: Mold? Okay. That sticker? It’s got to go!
clearly the "wrong" footy club and there are NO WORSE SINS then the wrong club
if it can be repaired economically, you should buy it, get it road legal first, then test this old battery (range, 0 mile test...) and then get the battery repaired/replaced and repeat the tests, it would be cool content, off course if you have time for all that
Yes as restoration project it would be cool.
Excellent subject. Would love to see the practicality of renovating a low range car for local travel use.
I bought one with 66% SOH and the max capacity was 12.6 in optimal battery temp. The solution was the battery swap with newer and bigger. Even the battery looked like it has 2 or 3 weak cells in the middle of rear block. After measuring capacity of every cell separately I found only 5-6% capacity difference between best cell and worst one. It took more then 2 month to measure they. Every cell 2 times. So replacing worst cell could make improve range about 6 percent. So my decision not to replace these 3 cells and buy whole new battery was right. Disassembled buttery works already several months in the home energy storage system and it it looks has more then 12.5kWh even I do not use extreme low SOC.
Always amazed about the i3 batteries. Our 2014 is still in almost perfect condition
BMW played the save Game and and has a very large buffer built into the capacity of the battery. So the batteries last forever. I don't think the new BMWs are built on that level of security anymore.
Yep - had a 2017 i3. We sold it about a year ago (so 5 years old) and the battery capacity was still near 100%. Loved that car.
BMW had thermal management from day one on. These batteries are better than the Leaf batteries
@@BaumeisterKnese GM BOLT and VOLT ran HUGE buffers also on there batteries so it "appears" to have the same battery as new for a VERY LONG time and allows "100%" CHARGE WITHOUT 100% SOC being reached as that is "buffer" from 90% SOC showing as 100%
I saw an i3 earlier today it LOOKED brand NEW and was far from it I am sure
Very interesting Bjorn🙏👊
Hi, that would be cool to do a series with some used EV advices, some cars got issues and other "flawless".
No
Get a =>2014 will have better battery chemistry and also V2G capability. You will be spending €1000s on a new battery
You could also use it as solar storage at your new house! It has v2g!
Yes. And work out cheapest and easiest way to restore the battery. We need to know how to keep these cars going.. and if anyone out there can update the BMS and add thermal management. Or convert to CCS to future proof it. I also heard that it should be possible to increase the power of the motor too.
I for one want to know how to buy a USED one and bring it back to "like new" usability with 5+ years of LIFE as I can NOT afford $50+ for a new/ nearly new EV
Verry intresting Stuff. 👍
Don't buy a 2011-early 2013 LEAF. The battery chemistry in those sucks. The later 24 kWh batteries are very good though.
Agree, 2014 + Tekna. Nice leather seats too and better trunk space.
Will be interesting to compare cost of a battery replacement with a modules fix or, an upgrade in size as 28 is very small. Love the car interior tour - Bjorn fighting his natural perfectionism, trying to ignore unpleasant stains and gradually losing it! LoL.
Yes, Reuse>Recycle
I have a leaf from 2014 and it have don about 150.000 km - I lost one bar. Leaf from 2014 and onward have a much better battery life than the earlier versions
I would be interested to see if the battery can recover with more gentle treatment. If not, you can then replace cells as others have suggested.
Please make more videos about this car, its degraded battery, rapairs etc.
There's one more thing you'll need to consider, Björn! The first generation of LEAFs didn't have a heat pump, so you would see an extreme range drop in the winter where you live since it only has a "hair dryer kind of heater"... But maybe it would still be sufficient for your needs if you just replace a few cells in the battery. Still, I think you might be able to find a car that better fits your needs, but I love the stories where the cars live on for ever after someone just takes good care of it! Especially EV's!
Brings back a lot of mixed memories from our 2014 Leaf. Don't do it Bjorn!
Bjorn i have exactly similar leaf, same color same generation ZE0 and have 7 bars from 2012, i own it since 2018, good to see videos about it 👍
Hello, can you please tell me the range you get with and without the heater on?
@@GavinScrimgeour In winter without heater around 70km with it 50, in summer 100km without A/C
@@achikokaxeli Thank you for replying 👍🏻 that’s about 40 miles winter with no heat, 30 miles winter with heat and in the better weather 60 miles. Even that would be fine for me doing my local commute and journeys. I’ve got a 2017 Leaf with 11 bars and it’s fantastic. Have a good weekend 😁
@@achikokaxeli how cold is "winter" I ask from central Canada and have a 50 KM round trip commute but CAN level 1 charge at work
Buy it and swap battery for 40kWh to show us how it goes
It needs to be re-approved and the battery also costs lots of money.
@@bjornnyland the guy from „fully charged” CZcams channel swapped the battery, so still there are some possibilities. But probably there are just better and cheaper (when including battery change and other repairs) electric cars in Norway
@@bjornnyland Hei Bjørn. @DalasEVRepair has all you need for making it both legal and working properly.
Many nice challenges both inside and outside of this car for those who like that kind of thing 😉
Nissan Leaf project car. See how efficient you can make it! And, see how much range you can add! Drop the suspension, lighten the car, aero wheels, skinny tires, aero skirts/covers! Would be a fun project on this channel.
On second thought...this Leaf is too kaput to spend too much money on it!
Great project - just do enough to make the car practical for daily use. This would then represent what an average person would do, not an EV enthusiast with "unlimited" money. This would then show the way to keep these cars on the road for many years for the average driver.
You will also get heavy degradation if the battery has been left at a very low SOC or at 100% over a significant amount of time. Like if you take it down to 5% SOC and leave it for a week or 2 in the cold. Something to think about for those driving to the airport and leave their car for 2-3 weeks while on vacation.
Yes
You were thinking of ozone generator, O3. Deodorising like no other.
How about the leaf battery company with 3rd party solutions. I believe they're in Australia or New Zealand. Awesome video opportunity there.
How is cell balancing working on a Leaf ? Does it balance cells after 100% ? If so maybe leaving it on AC for a long time will balance cells and you get some battery power back ?
I got 2012 in alooot better condition it looks like new battery is about 17kWh i really like leaf once i left it for 6 monts in the garage with 53% and it still had 53% when i got back love that unolugged that is
It self discharges to around 50% and then the self discharge slows down. If it was at 100%, it would still be at around 50% when you returned to it - it was probably closer to 30-35% remaining after this time period, but charge level indicated vs actual is a bit of a dark art :)
you can diagnose degrade modules and swop that module , dealers such as cleverly EV in Uk do battery repairs
inspect and repair if feasible.
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeit. When I got rid of my LEAF, it had about the same mileage and 85% SOH. This battery had a hard life.
If you want a 24kWh Leaf then get the ones with black interior. They have much better battery and was produced from mid 2013.
Is there a followup video coming on this?
13:28 wooow use the brakes more so they dont rust out... so much for regeneration... i suppose a few hard stops every once in a while would be enough to keep them in good shape... speed up and brake hard every time you come home
I work on semi trucks in Canada and see the same thing on 44 tonne heavy truck disks / granted they have dyna brakes and a "good" driver will use the "jake" and not the pedal to slow down
but I doubt they "never" use the service brakes to stop considering I work on construction / dump trucks
You should talk to Dala from Kempower. Check out his CZcams channel (Dala's EV Repair), maybe you guys can collab?
Do a 100km challenge 😅
Well, in Canada, Chademo is phasing out so probably not the best idea but specifics usage cases can work (like not needing Chademo), as long as the price is right.
where in Canada is Chademo being phased out ??? Pet-the-can in Manatoba is fitting out dual station chargers with CCS/Chademo and the CO-OP near me put in a 2 dual stand chargers
CCS offered far higher charge rates but "old" cars like a leaf and iMEAV dont take those high charge rates due to small battery capacity
I know VW / electrify America is phasing it out
This is a 2012 model Leaf not 2013. Indicated by the different inverter stack, onboard charger in the trunk, tan cloth interior, and electronic park brake. The 11-12 cars are much worse for battery degradation than the 13+ cars, even in cold climate.
Well, it's a lot better than my Outlander PHEV which has at about 60% degradation now! (just over 100K)🤧
Only if you do the 1000km test on it!
I love the idea of showing how much it costs ( time and money) to bring an old leaf back to life. But I thought your old Tesla model S was your go to car?
And oh please do more below zero tests... EV 6 for instance
Already done it for Niro EV. Very similar car. I will of course not do it for *every* model I test.
God project car, like for a swap to EV Enhanceds liquid cooled LFP-battery. :-)
No.
Dumping a 10-year old car would be unacceptable both environmentally and for the consumer standpoint. Pure madness.
Please put orange pinstripes on it, Bjorn.
Only 198 times fastcharging and 2822 AC charging. Well well well. Looks like more parked with 100% over many days, that degrade Leaf battery. Elbilmek can fix this battery and swap battery cells. They are expert of it. Red lines is cells is under balancing progress.
Just to clarify, this Leaf is from Norway, and the winter there is extreme. If you live in the centre of Europe or south, this is not gonna be a problem. Our EVs from 2013 look like brand new, rust is not a problem at all. This seems a pretty extreme case of snow parking for long periods of time.
living in central Canada that 2013 LOOKS NEW
there are 10 year old cars NOT FIT for the road here due to rust out and for the rotor rust I am a heavy truck mechanic and see that rusting on brake rotors and that is NOT from "under using" the brakes
would be interesting as a project car what it costs to restore an old electric car. maybe with a battery exchange in Holland you can also convert leaf to ccs there.
Yeah Muxsan does this in the Netherlands although I don't hear from him lately. He didn't release a video for a long time and his Twitter is dead silent.
@@matroosoft4589 From what I understand from Muxsan, he is just super busy with the battery swaps, upgrades and preparing to sell kits for 3rd party garages and doesn't have time for promoting himself online. I looked at his prices a couple of times and they are way beyond what would be economically viable. It's just cheaper to upgrade the whole car to a newer model Leaf.
That's a 2012 built in Japan, after that it's built in England and don't have the charger in the cargo area. I have one built in 2012 but registered in traffic here in sweden last of october 2013. But with 78% SOH.
Yes its one of the first generations Leaf made in Japan. Its called the Opama Leaf because of the manufacturing plant in Opama Japan. These Opama Leafs even have a heat pump.
@@nfspeedy2 It for sure don't have a heat pump not before 2013 only PTC heater that heats coolant in the engine bay that circulate into the cabine.
O3 ozone sanitizer for odour and mold
Hi Bjorn what's happening with melenium falcon?
my nissan leaf have 25% SOH
looking forward to suggestions and suppliers of new battery modules
how much if ANY range is that equate to ???
@@jasonriddell 30km
Perfect car for batteryswap. 40kwh fits.
Do not buy this car. I do have three Nissan Leaf batteries (each 22kWh) as a PV home storage. One has 20% degradation, the others 10%. Under 30% SOC the cells drift apart. You can use this car 30-100%, low Soc = shutoff. Is that enough range ? Do not let it sit with low Soc. Same with my SmartED (10 years old). I do not go under 20%, the weak cells suffer more, you will ruin the battery. The leaf had individual modules, it is possible to check each and put together a better set. But that is time consuming. Here as a PV storage there is no problem because the load is very low (C5 or less), that causes only little cell diff. Change the 12V battery, an old one will recharge often and drain the HV batt.
Used Leaf 2 Generation with 62kwh would be interesting for me
I think there are certainly people out there that could use a cheap EV like this with small range. I only drive 6 miles or so a day something like this would be great for me depending on the price.
this would be PERFEECT for my mother to replace her 2004 ECHO as she is retired and drives to the grocery and the mall all in town and does NOT "commute" at all as she is retired
Fully expect Kyle Conner to pop-up in the comments shouting "Yes please buy it!!!"
Min første elbil var en "andre" generasjon Leaf fra 2014 (USA import). Den hadde SOH på 86% etter 130 000km. Tok godt vare på den og den sviktet aldri. Er erstattet av en Xpeng G3 nå.
This is a 2012 (pre heat pump) based on the battery form factor, interior, slower onboad charger, rims etc. and not a 2013 which would have a heat pump, different battery and interior. Some good things with the Japanese built Leaf but definitively some draw backs (retrofitting bigger capacity battery packs and not such a great heater at is a PTC heater only. Slow to heat up and not great at keeping cabin warm during extreme cold.
Best review ever
What about a 10 hour challenge?
Al 70-90km/h avoiding highways, ¿is it posible to make maybe 400km?
Hi Bjørn. Yes, I suggest buying it. Then take the battery out and install it in your new home with solar panels. Then reinstall a more recent battery on that good old Leaf.
I agree with you, he did say at one time he wouldnt have solar but he can get a good 6 months of almost 24 hour daylight
@@rodden1953 Yes, that will take some good effect on his power consumption. Good point about those 6 months 24 hour daylight.
@@youxkio im in the UK with ESW panels and i make more in a day the people with more powerful systems juat facing south .
@@rodden1953 Yes, I saw a video talking about that exactly!!! For the UK, basically, if you have solar panels mounted EW with 60% W and 40% E, the panels will generate electricity from the most and best solar time.
@@youxkio My West panels do nothing in mid winter and over the last 3 years have gone green so i just had them cleaned im now getting 1kw at 6pm . today my Powerwal was fully charged by 8.30am and making 2,5kw so i pluged the car into the Zappi .
Even if this car was free I wouldn't touch it. I had a 2015 and with no degradation in winter it would eat through the battery. It would lose 75% in 40kms.
Chademo to Ccs retrofit kit is available?
This is Leaf from 2011. Old battery because it doesn't have black interior. It's the first Leaf with inverter behind the back seats...
Rather look for 2014+ Leaf and change the battery to 30 or 40kWh or more.
Mine 2014 24kWh Leaf was at 64% SoH and I could do 70km in best weather conditions and maximum of 50km in winter...
It would be interesting to swap the battery. I think it is possible to get 30 or even 40kwh battery in this thing
This guy has done just that youtube.com/@DalasEVRepair
You can, the guy from Fully Charged took his to a company in The Netherlands and replaced a 24kWh battery for a 40kWh battery. Huge improvement but it was round £6000/€6800/78k NoK though!
It is possible to do a swap to 62kwh but it is not easy.
a commenter above did it to a Canadian LEAF and 175KM range from the 130 as NEW range cost 12K CDN for comparison a NEW V8 into a RAM pickup under warranty costs 14K at the dealer paid by warranty
It is a super car for a project, but I'm really concerned, about this biohazard marks inside - for me, It will be pass, because of those, not the battery state.
I wouldn't do it Bjorn but I know you're going to. Just a feeling. If you do, you need to get a really good price and I mean really good.
What price is good then?
30K NOK
I would buy it and put the motor in an old classic, and when i got everything running in the classic car runs sell parts out of the car, then when the parts is sold scrap the rest.
The car as is looks crappy.
Info about brand new battery then the car was brand new:
Nominal Capacity 24 kWh
Useable Capacity 22 kWh
That is for models from 2011 to 2013
20,5kWh usable when new. For model year 2010-2016. Approx 3% degradation per year is normal for Leaf.