SpaceX's Big Solution For Starship Heat Tiles Re-entry in Upcoming Launch!
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- SpaceX's Big Solution For Starship Heat Tiles Re-entry in Upcoming Launch!
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0:00-0:24: Intro
0:25- 4:21: Big solution for Starship
4:22-6:38: Glue or Metal Pins
6:39-8:55: Starship and Space Shuttle heat shields
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#alphatech
#techalpha
#spacex
#elonmusk
#starship
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Sources of image & video:
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Ryan Hansen Space:
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Everyday Astronaut: / erdayastronaut
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Starbase Surfer: / cnunezimages
Starship Gazer: / starshipgazer
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Coop: / cooper_hime
C-bass Productions: / cbassproductions
TheSpaceEngineer: / mcrs987 / @thespaceengineer
Cosmic Perspective: / considercosmos
ACTUSPACEX: / @actuspacex6995
Evan Karen:
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Christian Debney: / christiandebney
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SpaceX's Big Solution For Starship Heat Tiles Re-entry in Upcoming Launch!
Starship's heat shield is still a crisis that SpaceX has to face.
And this issue has become more crucial than ever as the fourth Starship flight is approaching, which will be a significant step in demonstrating Starship's ability to return to Earth and be reused.
So, what big solutions have SpaceX and Elon Musk implemented for Starship’s heat shield to prepare for the upcoming launch?
Let's find out on today's episode of Alpha Tech:
SpaceX's Big Solution For Starship Heat Tiles Re-entry in Upcoming Launch!
“A super reliable, light, reusable heat shield is the biggest technical challenge remaining for Starship”
This is Elon Musk's announcement about what Starship needs to perfect. And indeed, the heat shield is the component that makes space enthusiasts like us worried.
Why is that?
SpaceX's Big Solution For Starship Heat Tiles Re-entry in Upcoming Launch!
If you are a big fan of SpaceX Starship and frequently follow the intense tests of this gigantic spacecraft, I am sure that at least twice you have seen heat shields falling off due to the strong vibrations from the formidable power of the Raptor engines. Of course, in reality, this happens more often than we think.
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Subcribe Alpha Tech: / @alphatech4966
=== - Věda a technologie
I hope eventually one of the starships is named Jefferson.
Why?
Doh….
Good one. I think you just dated yourself. LOL
Good One. I think You just dated yourself. LOL
@@kevinbissett293 Yes, but in my defense, I've been very lonely
Only correction I see is that with the use of steel, One or several missing heat tiles Should not result in a catastrophic loss of the vehicle. Obviously, the goal is to have all of the tiles survive launch and reentry.
In other words , no solution yet.
@MrPyroburn I agree, cover it in treated wood like the Russian s, did in the 60's with their capsules. Then just pop on a new shell every few flight.s
What about the loss of attitude control upon reentry? If that issue isn't resolved the tps tiles won't matter.
I think the composite of the heat shield tiles new to be completely resigned. From the composite of the tiles, the shape, to the attachments. First and foremost they are to fragile. The composite of the tile need to be a reinforced composite so they are not prone to cracking or breaking. When they crack, game over. The vibration cracks the tiles. That's enough to cause a catastrophic failure. Great Episode. It needs to be in a situation where you don't have to give the heat shield a second thought. Thanks for bring the tiles to the forefront.
that's a good idea! Thank Kevin for your comments
@MrPyroburn I agree. Do you have any ideas how to accomplish this? What would you recommend they use for shielding against the massive heat? There has to be a better way than what they have at present.
The tiles are okay , the bond to the ship skin is the problem . The bond fails when the tile heats up and expands slightly as they know. Can an intermediary material be discovered to absorb the tile expansion and not need replacement after multiple missions?
Buckyballs
Since their using stainless steel for Starships skin, adhering strong yet small-ish magnets on the inside of the heat shields seems like a way to go.
*they're
You know what destroys magnetism? Heat.
@MrPyroburn pointless, puerile hair-splitting. We are not discussing magnetic fields projected by liquid cooled electromagnets. We are talking about physical magnets as an attachment method for heat shield tiles. At the temperatures they would be exposed to during re-entry heating, their magnetism would be heavily degraded and probably lost altogether.
Wow.this is the first time that Space X is not destroying the space industry and NASA is thankfully not in state of shock.
2 years ago recession, a year ago recession, Make your mind?
Biden inflation was bad news for 15,000 Tesla employees.
A thin tungsten shell (perhaps 0.5 mm thick) could shield the tiles from atmospheric buffeting. (Tungsten has a melting point in excess of 6,000 degrees Fahrenheit, so it's not going to melt.)
Weight of tungsten vs weight of titanium
Shag Wellington declared that the shields would be the biggest problem to overcome since the work began on the Starship.
They need to put pins into the sides of the tiles so the entire heat shield would interlock
Best of these vids I've seen so far, thanks. Bring on the details, we love' em!
Thanks great video on StarShip, enjoyed watching 👍👍
Thank you so much! Have a good day!
FYI I just submitted my resume to SpaceX for the mechanical engineering heat shield subsystem. Just another thought entered my mind. Are you sure you want to deploy the re-entry heat shield at liftoff? Seems to me that the thing should be rolled up like a fire blanket or umbrella and deployed prior to re-entry like a taco shell around the craft, then discarded prior to landing and replaced for the next launch.
Raising the protruding profile of the heat tile will induce higher boost phase drag and demand more fuel capacity to feed the engines.
Aluminum vs Steel
Thank you for your video! It should also be noted (much better margins, especially in cases where tiles are missing):
Shuttle = Material: Aluminum alloys (primarily 2219-T87) Melting Point: Approximately 543°C (1,009°F)
Starship = Material: Stainless steel (primarily 301 and 304L stainless steel) Melting Point: Approximately 1,400°C to 1,500°C (2,550°F to 2,750°F)
Interesting. Thanks.
Why only 3 clips to hold the tiles? Make it 5 ( 4 in a square pattern and the fifth in the middle.).
We are in this moment short of clips. Take some from your mother
I think it reduces the strength of the tiles.
Can someone that has access to Elon Musk please suggest that the StarShip enters the atmosphere through the O³ ozone hole over the Antarctic which may result in tiles not being required and also not damage the ozone layer.
I am surprised that they haven't changed the shape of the tiles:- interlocking them like a jigsaw puzzle piece, or some kind of extra , thin, covering that could be sprayed or painted on that would shrink slightly on cooling, so it would in effect act as a saran wrap, so even if theyshook loose slightly, they wouldn't fall off on launch, or on the max q of reentry
I too have wondered about some wrap of some kind that would just burn off without damaging anything on reentry. There has to be a good reason why NASA or SpaceX haven't tried that.
Stopped watching when I heard, "Starship's heatshield is a crisis that SpaceX still has to fix." since characterization as "crisis" is so clearly intentional misinformation, why waste my time with the remainder of the clip?
I'm betting Flight # 4 Launch will be
Monday , May 27th , Memorial day weekend
If they enter more slowly would this not reduce the heat
Good luck to SpaceX. Seems to me that they will have to get the Starship launch cadence way up to do the orbital refueling that NASA is depending upon for Lunar Starship and the Artemis Moon landing project. And reusable thermal protection tiles are the only way to have fast turnaround and keep the cost from becoming prohibitive. But it won't happen if extensive heat shield refurbishment is needed after each flight.
Blue would indicate a thermal conductive adhesive with boron nitride. If the new material is red, I'm guessing that it is a silicone rtv type material like permatex or JBL red but that is only rated to 650°F.
One big problem with a water cooling method is that under pressure (if the water was going to be recirculated) it would no longer be water, but instead pressurized steam. The only way would likely to have the steam relieve itself out of each tile with pressure relief tubes. There could be no valves at the relief point because all of those valves would be possible points of failure. There would have to be a lot of water blasted through that system even just for a couple of minutes during the hottest point of re-entry. I wonder what liquids have the highest boiling point temperature?
In order to keep the liquid in that state, the pressure has to increase inside the pipes which would burst pipes and fittings of many material designs.
Yeah! Heat shield finally getting a rethink.
Just wondering if air gel could be added to help were as air gel is super light and does not absorb heat. Just a thought by a regular guy.
Watch closely at 0:49. Can you do a video about the shock waves put out by a space ship launch. Thanks
Thanh you for your reminder! I will note this!
The more important issue is will the new cover sheets be on the TPS reports?
Why this reference?
@@Agnes_Noby_sirI am assuming all of the BS included in this video.
Make them overlap slightly like dragon scales. GOT style.
... Gluing the heatshields on better?
the ship didn't re-enter in the correct orientation (look at 1:29 .. the ship is sideways, not belly first..
Thank you for your reminder!
Thanks to the thumbnail all I can think about now is Austin Powers.
We'll be lucky if it don't blow up in the atmosphere again.😂😂😂😂
FWIW, the space-industry term for things banging into each other due to extreme launch vibration is "chatter".
I'm kinda wondering if the tiles shouldn't use natures example of feathers or fish scales and overlap. Both have strong, single attachment points at their base. These could then be liquid cooled when the re-entry temperature gets too high. Slate tile roofs are another example. Tungsten steel foil scales might be a possible material. Might even be lighter per unit of surface area than the existing tiles.
I gave up listening about halfway through since all I was hearing was conjecture not SpaceX's big solution.
@MrPyroburn speech to text corrected.
@@jaboweryWhy call out spelling and grammar arrows? Everyone is using swipe, talk to text and Arturo correct.
Advanced material reinforcement matrix and attachment methods are key to proper operation on all levels.
Been there, done that successfully. No easy task.
My questions about the heat shield:
1. Rapid reusability is the MAIN unique required that Starship is attempting to achieve. Why has SpaceX not worked on the heat shield design sooner? They just forgot? Without rapid reusability, Starship will just be another Space Shuttle that requires extensive repair after every launch.
2. What prompted the changes to the heat shield? What data? Was this prompted just by video of the Starship 3 launch and re-entry?
3. SpaceX switched from BLUE glue to RED glue? Are you sure they aren’t using RED LockTight in place of BLUE LockTight?
4. What test rig is SpaceX using to test heat shield designs? Where is the data from these tests?
5. Why will the new design be tough enough to support rapid reusability of Starship?
6. What data will SpaceX get from the next launch of Starship? Just photos? Is there any instrumentation? Are they really claiming that they will recover the upper stage of Starship launch 4 after it touches down softly on the ocean and floats for hours and hours?
After 4 years of development, SpaceX is STILL making major changes to the heat shield design Considering how little information SpaceX is providing about the heat shield design, my guess is that this MAJOR change is being made for the benefit of trying to assuage the fears of potential investors and other organizations like NASA and the Department of Defence who have made plans that depend on a rapidly reusable Starship so that SpaceX can raise more investment funds and get more government contracts. I do not believe there is ANY reason to believe that SpaceX is actually making progress towards a final heat shield design but are, instead, still flailing.
1. They have been working on it this whole time. There is no better way to test the heat tiles than during actual reentry, which they have only achieved once so far, so it makes sense why we haven't seen many changes to the heat shield yet.
2. I wouldn't say they have made any major changes, more like modifications. These modifications were prompted by the fact that in every test flight there have been tiles that fall off. While the ship can survive reentry with a few missing tiles, obviously spaceX wants as close to 100% tile retention as possible and will work towards getting there. And yes, video footage shows the tiles falling off.
3. Don't know. Could be the same glue. We'll see if it makes a difference. Probably not a huge change but could help a bit.
4. The best test rig is the actual starship itself. Yes, the tiles are tested for heat resistance and durability on earth, but there is no way to know for certain it will work without testing it during reentry. Improvement through iteration is the motto of SpaceX. They focused first on getting it into orbit, now comes the troubleshooting of other systems like the heat shield. I'm sure if they were not confident on finding a solution with the heat tiles they would have pivoted to a different heat shield design much earlier. In fact, one of the initial design ideas for the starship heat shield was a "weeping hull" design that would release liquid methane through small pores to create its own plasma barrier. They scrapped this idea and opted for the heat shield tiles which are more simple and easier to get working.
5. If all they have to do is replace a few heat tiles after each use, then in my book that qualifies as rapid reusability. They can probably automate this task at some point later down the road.
6. All the data lol. There are onboard computers and system feedback sensors that track metrics throughout the entire flight. Thousands of people will be interpreting that data day and night to make improvements for the next launch.
@@zachhilty6822
SpaceX has a ground-based test stand for testing engines so they can test over and over, collect huge amounts of data, then dismantle the engine piece by piece and examine the results in detail. They should have a ground-based test rig for testing heat tiles and attachment methods so that they can test over and over every day and test many different materials and designs. If they don't and are only testing during "actual re-entries", they will NEVER EVER arrive at a good heat tile design. A good, cheap test stand for testing heat tiles and attachment designs could be as simple as pointing the exhaust of a Raptor engine at a heat tile/shield mock up and lighting the engine. The fact that we haven't seen any pictures of their heat tile test rig (unlike the engine test stand that we have seen many, many pictures of) makes me wonder if they have one. After an engineering tour de force developing the Falcon 9, SpaceX is looking like the Keystone Cops now which I attribute to Elon having assumed charge of Starship engineering.
I wonder if Elon has ever heard of T&G?
Excellent report. The one thing missing is a picture of the way the pin attaches to the craft. I believe the pin sticks into a metal clip and is held in place by compression/expansion of the pin. I've believed all along that as far as the rocket itself, the tiles are the number one problem. I think anything they are doing right now is temporary. I don't think they have implemented a permanent solution yet and may not have one. I think if tiles are used the solution is just as you suggested in the video. The pin has to attach differently to the tile. There are any number of ways the pin could attach and I wish they would lay it all at there so the public could take a look at it. My uncle was an engineer and scientist. He was President of a large railroad company and when his wife died young he returned to his first love. He was a scientist working for the military/government. When he died he was working on the development and use of ceramics in space and rail transportation - one concept being the vehicle would float over the track and never touch it. I'm pretty certain if he were alive today he would love to tackle the problem. Me too:-)
Really good informative video! Thank you ! Sounds like SpaceX has it under control. Yaay !!
I would yet advocate a chicken wire format netting wrapped around the entire ship to unitize the tiles during lift off and being made of a strong, lightweight carbon fiber textile. let it burn off during reentry and simply replace prior to next launch. Should take about one man hour. E.G.:10 mins for 6 guys; once the cinching, and precut wraps are figured out.
I don't think the problem is the heat shields, they solved that on the shuttle. I think it's the gaps and the pivot Points of the flaps that are fully exposed.
Friction weld a stud at each of the apex locations of the hexagon. Taper the tile edge at the apex. Make up special three sided taper washer with countersink for nut.
Why doesn’t Spacex use the heat shield product called STARLITE.
Starlite is a material that can withstand temperatures of 10,000 degrees Celsius and nuclear flashes without burning
It will be genius if it works. Let see.
Maybe 3-d printed large heat shield would work better. easier to secure.
Great videos and updates, but please cut back on the "click bait" titling and hyperbole , it undermine the otherwise very professional site.
Thank you for your reminder! I will fix this
@@alphatech4966 no, you won’t
I have one from ship 24!
Sorry, can't maybe use the tiles material as foam?
Yeah! I will note thiss
Can't they make curved sheets with the the shape of the Starship. Fewer seams.
Yes the Space Shuttle lost hundreds of tiles, meaning they either fell off, became loose and/or needed to be replaced due to damage.
I know, as I have one.
This one is fine, it is many of the others
Por quê os engenheiros da SPCX não colam as placas térmicas igual escama de peixe?
Misleading headline! There's recent development in heat shield.
Shame aspestos is unusable. They could make a gaint sock and slip it on there in one piece, it's amazing stuff, we use to use it while welding. Nothing gets through that shit.
Can they copy stuff of what nasa did 50 years ago?
Heat Sheild should cover the whole ship one piece and no pieces
While solving the issue of (the inner surface of) the whole "wrap-on" expanding (relative to the outer surface of the ship).
Jacques Richard SA
Looks like more Gaffer tape is the solution. It aways is.
Yes! duck tape and wd-40 LOL!!!!
Why not make one uniform heat shield with passages carved in it to differ the heat, instead of 1000s of seperate individual tiles, make one giant solid one that can be bolted and removed quickly for rapid reuse, granted it may be expensive 🤔, but it would definitely work i think ????🤔, star ship is stainless steel so magnets should still work, the back of the shiled could be magnetic, or just bolted on, or a combination of both even glue vould be added too 🤷🏿♂️🤷🏿♂️
Stainless is not as magnetic as normal steel alloy.
With the reverberations traveling through the airframe, the tiles need to be segmented to be flexible and not shatter as easy.
Also, would need to allow for the fact that a single "wrap-on" heat shield would (likely)expand (relative to the outer surface of the ship). One big expansion l instead of lots of little ones. Especially at its edges.
I think an electromagnetic field would work better. we use it to hold plasma. maybe im not from here. why haven't ya'll thought of it yet
Is seems kind of obvious you just re-enter the atmosphere where it's - 200 degrees
I’ve never heard hydrodynamics used to refer to aerodynamic properties.
@MrPyroburn Yes, I know quite well the actual, broad definition of hydrodynamics. But when you are talking about the interaction of air and bodies moving through it, the more specific study is (obviously) aerodynamics. The word hydrodynamics has evolved to be more specific in everyday and even scientific use; it almost always refers to incompressible fluids of a much higher density than air. And the average person mistakenly thinks only of water when they hear it used.
I have never, in 70 years, heard anyone refer to the interactions of air with the surfaces of aircraft, automobiles, rockets, or other “aerodynamic” objects, anything other than aerodynamics. Air is a specific substance with the study of its interactions using a more specific nomenclature. My father was an aerodynamicist, not a hydrodynamicist.
However, I will concede that in the very different domain of plasma interacting with heat shielding, hydrodynamics might be the more proper term. But that isn’t my area of study, so I don’t know.
@MrPyroburn Pardon me for being somewhat defensive. I think I misinterpreted the gist of your comment. Your point is taken. ✌️
I never really understood how a rocket falling back to earth can have such heating problems while those stratospheric parachuters doing the same do not. The main difference is the fact that rockets are so fast when they start falling back, right? Therefore, wouldn't it be better working on slowing them down BEFORE they fall back instead of working on the heating, which is, so to speak, just a symptom? Sure, slowing down in the space may sound easier than it is. On the other hand, it may be easier to do that in outer space than to get up there. Sure I know I am no exper and no engineer, but physically speaking, if fastness is the core problem, you could at least think about that instead of lazily just falling down and then work on the heat and nothing else.
That would use way too much fuel and that means hardly any payload.
@@andrewsarchus6036 True. Yet with SpaceX's new rocket motors and other technical improvements resulting in less weight and more payload, maybe we can get closer to a point where my proposal might become more realistic and all that heated up decline from the orbit becomes outdated and somewhat primitive.
@@marcushladek262 I think they would only consider it once - if ever - they've completely exhausted any realistic chance of employing the free braking provided by the atmosphere. Dream Chaser is going for it too.
Bah-Humbug!
Neurotic Rocket Engineerds trying to save face...
Its too complicated, too fragile, parts count too high, too labor intensive, takes too much time, requires too much mantenance... and undoubtably too expensive...
But other than that just perfect! 🥰
The main problem with any additive to hull exterior is differential thermal expansion.
Might pay to experiment with a Tungsten or other higher temp metal in the alloy for the belly of the ship.
You notice, craft like Blackbird didnt have silly tiles.
Also theres the flight profile, and the potential to reduce velocity by very thin upper atmosphere altitude control, and I have heard Elon describe what I did in writs in simplistic terms. I suspect the next flight will be a crude attempt at it, but that benefit will be obvious, and we cant have too much of a good thing here...
And that if numbers are beneficial enough, Lord Elon will flog his design Serf Enginerds in the proper direction.
The fix is likely a combo of stuff, to achieve a working and highly functional balance of compromises. copying problematic tech over 40 years old is conceptual entrenchment, not progress.
And if the glide ratio helps, might affect V-2 thinking, and maybe can cattle prod his guys enough they start thinking about reshaping Starship... So gores for higher temp alloy can be used where needed efficiently and shapely..
Also possible to create artistic and fair hull shapes, instead of these flying Silver T¿rds....
(🤭)
Ain't it great! Not on
the payroll! Critíc at large! Cant fire me!
Humor aside,
Just trying to help...
And like I told the guys livid about parts count:
"I'll win in the end.."
🤗
@MrPyroburn Exactly!
Been doing writs on that for years.. Since Raptor 1 engines era... Nerds are monorails.... mental RXR trains..... cant leave their own tracks...
👍🖖🏽
maybe it's time to rethink this.
Time to think of plasma barrier technology other than tiles.
If fusion chambers use magnetic confinement...couldn't this be a possible solution?
Duct tape, it solves everything.
say it slow. China is taking notes.
Why don’t they just 3d print larger form fitting pieces? Fewer fail points better contact etc
Why not develop a system that uses the heat energy and wind pressure from re-entry to slow the vehicle down at re-entry? As the vehicle starts entering the atmosphere, air get's pushed into special vents and compressed then jettisoned out in the opposite direction to slow the vehicles descent. You don't need to carry any extra fuel for this because it's just using the atmospheric air being pushed into the vents at high speed due to the rapid descent. If this is done right, the vehicle may never have to reach the temperatures that would require heat shields.
No Sht, Elon. Tiles are going to blow your reusability goals out of the water
Guess you have forgotten that the Space shuttle Lost tiles every flight 😮.
@@josephc3276 what-aboutisms... are not going to solve the problem. 🤪
Hahahahaha. Tiles. Hahahahaha
Can't they come up with a heat resistant paint using graphite maybe?
@MrPyroburn That paint is awesome! It's amazing the brilliant minds at Space X have not figured it out. The tiles seem so archaic.
Unreliable thermal protection . I have complete confidence that next time Starship will burn up in the atmosphere .
Where's the solution? Fool me once, next time I unsubscribe.😊
Thank you!
Understand?
Heck....
I'm just a CZcams simpleton....
Understand?
It will take more than one year to solve the problems with the tiles and the return of the steps. Not all problems can be solved by "Sturm und Drang"...
Смотрю новости и ловлю мысль: вязаные топики в ведре лучше не стирать, и пятна ванишем не выводить🙄
Це-на?
There won't be a bad ending...??? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!! Please get serious!
Increase heat tile surface emissivity - micropitted carbon-carbon with asbestos filler.
Those are the engineering numbers. Missing are a pair of bolshy yarblockos versus the Envirowhiners. ReGRETAble. "8^>)
Why tiles they seam terrible Labour intensive and have many gaps surely larger pieces glued or sprayed on would be better
Hundres of tiles did not fall off the shuttle. omg AI voice sucks.
Yes the Space Shuttle lost hundreds of tiles, meaning they either fell off, became loose and/or needed to be replaced due to damage.
I know, as I have one.
@@icare7151 I would say hundreds. Maybe over ALL the mission combined . Lots were damaged.
I used to run the downlink from teh belly cam.
Elon Musk is full of it. Starship is the albatross around his neck.. you should have not got rid of your falcon 9 and heavy brain trust.
No matter how big you make the rocket. It will never lift the battle ship that you call starship. You either reduce 90% of the current weight. Otherwise you can count on more tears.
I see you finally fix the hot stage ring. But you have already reach the point of diminishing returns. You need to follow the Falcon heavy design. Otherwise you will not reach a stable orbit. But the heat reduction tiles will never stay on. After ift -4 you have three more shots. The military will walk away as well.
*SpaceX should just use that "FOAM SPRAY" in a can that they sell at Home Depot as a heat shield.* 🤣