Ultimate Invasion: The Return Of The Ultimate Universe?
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- čas přidán 28. 09. 2023
- Hi. The Ultimate Universe returns! Or does it? And what’s with that Kang guy? This is a user’s guide and quick review of the miniseries, Ultimate Invasion. Written by Jonathan Hickman and illustrated y Bryan Hitch. Published by Marvel Comics in 2023.
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SOURCES:
Jonathan Hickman And Bryan Hitch Are Teaming Up:
ew.com/books/jonathan-hickman...
Donny Cates Missing Six Months Of His Life:
bleedingcool.com/comics/donny...
Jonathan Hickman Reflects On The X-Men Experiment:
aiptcomics.com/2021/09/20/x-m...
Jonathan Hickman And Bryan Hitch Reveal The Full Scope Of Ultimate Invasion:
www.marvel.com/articles/comic...
BACKGROUND MUSIC:
We Always Thought the Future Would Be Kind of Fun by Chris Zabriskie is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
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I am excited because I think Marvel and DC need some solid ongoing second universes to build stories without the burden of canon (which, unfortunately, they will then cannibalize for their main universe).
Yes.
When I started reading comics in the the mid 80s (I was in elementary school), I was always puzzled at these grouchy old timers complaining about the direction DC and Marvel were going from when they were reading comics in the 60s to 70s. Now as I look at these new titles, and revamps, and reboots of characters I loved in the Bronze Age 80s, I understand how those Boomers felt. I think everything sucks now. Gen X rant over.
I remember those day too. I specifically remember Wally West becoming the Flash being a bit point of complaint. Flash forward to now and I see Wally West treated rather poorly and I kind of get where the Barry Allen fans were coming from. I wonder if Jay Garrick fans were peeved back in the 60's? :)
At this point, the Ultimate universe or even"this Ultimate Universe " has already a huge continuity
I know this isn't the same concept, but I've been excited about the MCU because it's not just an alternate take on the comics, but it's a take that can move forwards. Actors age, so they can retire Steve Rogers and replace him with Sam Wilson . . . but what happens when Anthony Mackie goes on to other things? What happens when Dominique Thorne stops playing Ironheart? They could realistically get new actors to play new characters, and do what the comics are never allowed to do: move on. Either that or they'll just use the *clap clap* Multiverse to reboot everybody and spin in place until the audience goes away.
It makes me wonder what sort of supervillains the MCU might end up having if they keep killing off the comics villains. What happens if the MCU is still going in 10 years with some space character carrying Cap's shield and fighting, say, a giant bug alien who thinks it knows "Where Thanos went wrong?" New ideas could be, y'know, good.
A detail that I think you missed but is the strongest indicator that Tony Stark is Kang: The alias that Tony chooses, instead of Iron Man, is Iron Lad. In the Young Avengers comics, Iron Lad is a younger version of Kang who travels back in time to avoid becoming evil like his older version. I think the evidence is too strong for it to be another character.
The only character I liked from the Ultimates was the Maker. No one appreciates how dangerous Reed actually is. The Ultimates always seemed like an ongoing What If story to me.
Thats what piqued my interest.
I'm with you on this. The Maker is dangerous.
Reed is already dangerous as a good guy
@@hardcpy and no one appreciates it
The Ultimate Universe started back in 2000 when I was a baby. I learned so much about the Ultimate Universe when I was 17. Now, I'm more obsessed with Reading the Ultimate Universe.
If Donny Cates didn't had an accident, he would've written his vision of the Ultimate Universe being Revived.
"Fine" is a good summation in the end. I find myself disappointed with the Maker more and more since Hickman originally introduced him.
A scary hypercompetent arch villain that's inevitably reduced to a saturday morning cartoon badguy who gets beaten in a big fist fight. I can't help but expect more but I don't know why at this point.
Personally I think this is kinda what the new Ultimate Universe needed to be. As someone who does remember the good stuff from the Ultimate Universe I feel like this taps into a lot of those elements “spiritually” but doesn’t make it overt edgy or try hard.
I was kinda worried there would be too much like the MCU, 616 or 1610 but this feels like it’s own thing with some common tropes
Kang is obviously Tony Starks, he doesn't become Iron man at the end of the comic, but Iron Lad.
Iron Lad being originally a member of the young avengers who was revealed to be a young Kang who was send into the past by an older Kang.
That's right!
9:06. Illyana: "Yes. It did happen. But never for this long, right?" Yeah, she is curious here yet confused about being involved on the battlefield. Everyone older than her in the group, feels like a kid compared to other members around her. Hmm.. I still kept my curiosity while resisting the use of violence. I never liked violence in my life. I may be legal of age, yet I still behave and feel like a kid too. In my heart and mind. When older people mention, discuss about me.😢
Hickman is again burning time, still waiting for that DC call to reboot the LoSH.
I think an additional issue would have went a long way in helping with the rushed nature of the finale. I liked Reed/Doom as a character and look forward to the adventures of Doom and Iron Lad with the upcoming one-shot, but an issue between 3 and 4 that explaining Howard and Reed's plan and developing their friendship would have bolstered the impact of said plan and would have opened up issue 4 to give more details about the new Ultimate Universe.
(Also, I thought Kang was supposed to be future Howard, but its so obvious Hickman meant for Kang to be Tony)
I think it's fun that Maker couldn't have prevented the Hulk, but at the same time, wouldn't he be one of the easiest to prevent? Both the 616 and 1610 Hulks have a single inciting cause for their powers (as far as I know at least, I'm not as well-versed with the Ultimate universe)
At least in the original Ultimate universe, the Hulk was born as a result of Bruce's involvement in S.H.I.E.L.D.'s revival of the super-soldier program as a preventive measure for the next generation of warfare.
Now, I admit I haven't read either Ultimate Invasion or the Ultimate Universe one-shot yet, so I don't know the full extent of the Maker's alterations to history, and so I may be completely off the mark.
But I do remember that Bruce didn't share his findings with anyone. Partly because his dedication to genetic enhancement and cooperation with S.H.I.E.L.D. was secretly motivated by a selfish desire to empower himself, as he hated his weak and frail body all his life and wanted to be like Captain America. And partly out of fear of never receiving his due credit in the breakthrough, which is why he tested his flawed recreation of the super-soldier serum on himself.
This is mere speculation, but I think it's possible the Hulk evaded the Maker's attempts to prevent his creation either because Bruce found other, more obscure benefactors than S.H.I.E.L.D. to fund his research. Although I admit it's very unlikely they could evade the Maker's eye since he remade the universe in his image. Or because it was just a matter of time before Bruce figured it out completely on his own thanks to keeping his findings a total secret, even if it would've taken him much longer.
With that said, I agree that 616 Hulk's origin was easily preventable since, like Spider-Man's, it was pure chance. Reed could’ve just distracted Bruce long enough to stop him from saving Rick Jones from the gamma bomb's blast.
I was a little disappointed by Ultimate Invasion. But I still think that the new Ultimate Universe could be good. I just hope they keep it small and the continuity tight. I really want to see some interesting progression and the passage of time in the new Ultimate Universe.
Edit: I also think that this is weird because Donny Cates was going to write it but he got into an accident so Hickman was brought in to see it through but that's just speculation.
The Doom character was Reed Richards of that universe, Howard calls him Reed in the 4th issue. Overall a decent series but a little needlessly confusing at times. I’m excited to see where the new Ultimate line goes.
Oh, he's called Reed in the third issue, too. But...he seems very Doom-y.
That is the way of the Ultimate Universe at least it feels very true to the kind of twist they would do for secondary characters, I love your suggestion that it might be the actual Ultimate Victor Van Doom parading as Reed to dupe the Maker but I really don't expect that much from the writers.
The Original Ultimate stuff brought me back to buying new comics after a decade long hiatus. I'm semi-stoked to see where it goes.
I'm in the same spot, wishing and wanting to throw $$$ at Marvel.
I really don't care about this era of superheroes comics at all. I'm just here to feed the algorithm because I love your channel. Maybe do a weird science indie comic by Nathan Fox next. What did you think of FBP or The Weatherman (which is supposed to be coming back from hiatus)?
great review man
For a Hickman book it was kind of disappointing but for mainstream superhero comics it was pretty good. I was a little disappointed the Maker didn't go way way bigger with his original remaking why would he need the city? The whole world could be his city! I expected much more of his thought process even if I recognize the need to have a somewhat recognizable "normal world" for a superhero comicbook line.
It's always iffy to me when they try to go world big like this and you know "zen hulk will be good enough to govern the south-asian people" it looks cool but better not to think about this kind of stuff too hard.
For this story purpose it is much better to just assume Kang is Tony this is the dramatic twist the writer seems to be going for even if its disproven later the poetic irony of it is really what elevated the narrative and made it work for me.
Kang's army of ultimate doppelgangers was lame as hell it was campy and distracting. You know Hickman wanted this book to end quickly by litterally dumbing down the Maker, I was sad to follow an obviously somewhat lesser version of the character there was a fun twist to it but idk the first issue kind of hyped up the character in the best way then he felt ike a caricature to me.
Brilliant review and great content
Thank you Big Brain.
I'm not sure if that's directed at me, but I'll say thanks on the Big Brain's behalf. :)
Thanks for getting this up so quickly - I enjoyed the series and this is timely. Review: Fine+
Look at DC and Black Label, I think theres value in allowing creatives to create and not be beholden to prior continuity. I feel like deconstruction gets a bad rap these days but it's prevalent for a reason. Characters reacting to new situations and using the familiarity with those characters to create something novel for readers. I'd like to see the universe taken in a new direction and not be afraid to be different and shake things up. Honestly I think the maker and hulk were the biggest success on how to take characters in a different direction and I really liked their dynamic in secret wars. I would like to see it be different. Stuff like not having a spider-man, new status quo, different relationships. Maybe go so far as treat mainline marvel the way DC did Golden Age flash or GL, reinvent them and make them something new. I loved God's and Monsters from Bruce Timm and that's another avenue I could get behind. My issue with the old Ultimates can best be summed up with they just made a bad marvel universe. There was so much mean spirited loud attempts to just make known characters will riding off their immediate. Look at this character you recognize, what if they're a dick and just sucked. Less of that. Don't be afraid to swing for the fences
This is the best unbiased AND informative lecture about the "so far" event...and Marvel Comics.
I do get the feeling your are ahhh holding back, being reserved, not reeely pushing a boundary.
Yes, I will purchase this one, because you made the thing sound like a fun read.
....and The Council Of Reeds needs some Robert Crumb-ish member.
I was just thinking that it'd be cool for you to make a video on this.
And so you got it!
It really felt like a preamble to bigger things but I'm ready to read what comes next because of it.
When I was reading this all I could think was, "Did everyone forget about James Hudson Jr?" Last time he showed up he got a symbiote and started calling himself poison.
I think he is either forgotten or he's been pushed waaaay off to the side so no one notices him.
It sounds to me as though the "inversion" is that the new Ultimate universe would lean into the outlandish side of comics where the original tried so hard to be grounded.
im wondering if 'Doom' is influencing young Tony and then when the time is right, takes on the armor etc and becomes Kang, as in the main MCU Reed is related to Kang, albeit through his father. Maybe the Howard/Tony thing was also meant to be a parallel between Reed and his father etc? it feels like the red in Tony's armor stands for Red Herring.
Okay, im going to say it. The Maker's helmet looks ridiculous!
Very interesting that Hickman is writing Ultimate Spider-Man considering he was Bendis' protege at Marvel.
I enjoyed it. Not bad in the current state of Marvel.
Ok, I'm hyped
As a Ultimate Universe fan, I hope w whey some cool stories out of this
I'll support any Hickman project
Donny Cates, huh? I guess we can look forward to crazy ass fights with badass art on with Hulk vs.Thor?
Lore of Ultimate Invasion: The Return Of The Ultimate Universe? Momentum 100
My feelings on Ultimate Invasion are so complicated. On one hand it’s world building is intriguing, but it just feels lackluster as an introduction to a whole new world. How do you feel about Ultimate Spider-Man by Jonathan Hickman?
There’s no need for yet another Ultimate Spider-man. They should allow Hickman to fix the original Spider-man.
@@ChristopherLono the issue with that is… Hickman would be constrained and would never do it. If this was original Spider-Man it wouldn’t happen.
@@B8V88 yeah, I get that concept of more freedom but a Ultimate SpiderGirl series would still allow him to do almost everything and at the same time be a bit different (alternate version of Anya's or Cindy's life could be interesting instead of another Peter)
The only thing that really worked about the Ultimate Universe was Ultimate Spiderman. While there were some good arcs for Ultimate X-Men - and probably some other good stuff; it just didn't really work. I don't really see the point to bringing it back.
If in nutshell we get all new universe what is the Point of even calling it Ultimate, people who might get Ultimate Spider-Man might be under impression they are getting continuation of that world, storylines and characters, I already saw numerous posts with such ideas. It will for sure anger some who have deep nostalgic feelings towards 2000s Ultimate Universe even if the end product is superior to predecessor.
I actually had a really good time with this series. I was a little annoyed at the king where the electric because it did seem like it came from an editorial mandate, but after the not so subtle hint that it's Tony I feel a little bit more on board with this direction.
I also personally really like that this universe is very different from our own. I've seen complaints that this new ultimate universe is not enough of a reset or rather feels more like just an elseworld story, but I rather disagree and I think once we get a more consistent title that'll be all the more apparent.
More than anything though I just want more of the maker and this version of Doctor Doom I think those were far and away in my favorite part of this limited series. Well then and Howard Stark. I found myself liking Howard Stark more than I've liked recent Tony comics
Invasion is just a basic setup that doesn’t bring anything original. I hope to see three new limited series in another alternate universe with some interesting ideas but I don’t think we need the Ultimate Universe. In this mini we can find scraps of info that have the potential of being a decent story.
What titles do you expect to be released next? Ultimate Spider Woman? Ultimate Black Panther?
Great video essay! It’s nice to hear an opinion that is based in actual critical thinking, rather than fanboy blind hero worship and rage. I agree with most of your points. I do wonder about your thoughts on the Waste of entire pages of Hickman’s books by posting info-graphics and big test dumps? I think Ultimate Invasion 4 had 6 of those pages…
This book was strange. On one hand I loved the concept that a villian creates his own universe, eliminates ecery threat. On the other by issue 3 we loose this story for very long and boring dialogs and an overly complicated sci-fi story that kinda goes nowhere.
By the end we lost both main characters (Maker and Howard) and they didnt show much of the universe to make me really interested.
I want Ultimate Team Up again. That's it
Personally, I feel if the big 2 do alternate universes, they need big changes like the ultimate universe did after a few years. The earliest years were just the same characters slightly changed for newer times. I also want the characters to age. No more Bruce Wayne as Batman for 80 years, pass the mantle and it would keep the character and ideas fresh.
Could you do a video on the Hickman xmen run? I'm still completely confused as to what happened in that plot line...
P.s. your videos are all superb
There were 9 timeline, current timeline is the 10th and possibly last. But trees always have branches
Sue leaves Mr. Flimsy for Mr. Hardness-Itself. Viagara jokes aside, way to destroy an institution, Marvel!
A multiverse story + Time Machine usage = a pass for me. Thanks for the video! Nice to know what I’m (not) missing out on by not keeping up with Marvel.
Same. And this plot seems to be so convoluted and pointless that I can't help but think that I would be confused as hell if had read this series. I'm glad to have missed it entirely.
I would say it's not all that convoluted. At the same time, I have to say it's not Hickman at his best. It's not terrible, but he has done a lot better.
TBH I fear the Maker
Wait -- whaddya mean "the 'air quotes' death of Peter Parker"? Some of that stuff in that original universe was handled so abysmally. I think this Doom looks like Doom 2099 -- and we never did learn his actual identity, right? Anyways, thank you very much, SBP. You rock!!
Peter Parker was brought back at some point by Bendis in the Miles Morales title. Thus the air quotes. He died, but came back.
No, we don't learn whether that is Doom or Reed.
I still think Ultimate Thanos influenced Ultimate Reed.
Hickmans is in the same boat as Loeb. Both of them F'ed the Ultimate Universe.
Donny Cates had better plans. Plus Ultimate Venom
In comic books nothing and nobody stays dead.
My feeling on this limited series is Meh 🤷♂, it was an okay read. It read as if Hickman was fulfilling a contractual obligation. Unlike his work on the FF arc which introduced the Marquis of Death and connections to the Marvel 1985 limited series. But it's always nice to see Brian Hitch's artwork in a new fresh publication.
I still hope that the recent marvel publications since 2015 actually take place in a parallel/alternate reality. And not in the 616 that many of us old heads (50 years plus old) are familiar with, sliding timescale included and all. I am sure that the comics being printed today are as strange to us, as the comics of the 1980's were as strange to our grandparents (WW2 generation).
I want to see Marvel bring back MC2. That would be way more novel...if less commercial.
Ultimate Invasion sounds like Avengers Endgame of the Ultimate Universe. Or it is just me.
Personally? I'm a bit dissapointed. When the return was anounced I expect it would be the continuation of where Ultimate comics ended - there was a lot of narrative plotpoints and undiscovered places in Earth-1610 that was unceremoniously swiped away by Secret Wars. Then it was revealed in actuality its all about another universe and from what Ultimate Invasion introduced to us, this initiative doesn't strike me as material for successful long-lasting revival of imprint at all. Time of course will tell, but I do question whats special is about this new incarnation of Ultimate universe that will made people interested?
I think I get what he means by an inversion as the universe was supposed to be like ours but someone flipped it on it's head
Still annoyed there's no Spider-Man
The Ultimate Universe is so pessimistic and dark and edgy. I don’t understand who wanted the universe where Wanda and Pietro bang constantly and like everyone is a cannibal and rapist. I just don’t get who wanted this back.
Honestly it's just being used as nostalgia bait at this point. Recent comics haven't been doing very well, and the people who grew up with the original Ultimate books have more money now. Thus, a new series is here to capitalize on that.
TLDR: Just read MacKay's Moon Knight or Zdarsky's Daredevil. Far better investment of money and time.
Can't say I'm a fan either, but a lot of people liked it. It's weird that we're getting more Ultimate Universe now, though.
I don't think anyone wants the questionable, tasteless elements back. But perhaps some want an alternative to the 616 universe, where there isn't 50 years of history behind the characters.
More than the Ultimate Universe being revived now with Marvel being able to have a big enough creator behind it this just proofs that they are willing to retread old initiatives for the sake of keeping themselves afloat. On part with nostalgia as the young readers then are young adults to parents even, so there's that too. And although I do think that Hickman's idea to bring it back was the X factor needed, I'm sure it was more Marvel needing something big for the time being. Other writers could have been capable of it, and the fact that it may have been too soon for Ultimate universe to be back is something I don't buy. It's almost a meme how many times it came back that this series lost its impact because of it.
Just keep Jeph Loeb away from it this time
I'm genuinely surprised the illuminati reforming is a footnote in this book.
It's not a return because it's a completely different universe.
That's a good point!
Iirc, one of the reasons they decided to destroy the Ultimate universe was the continuity was starting to get too big (one of the main reasons the line was made was to not have decades of continuity that could potentially intimidate new readers). Maybe just do miniseries instead of ongoings?
no mark millar in ultimate universe.
This was a huge miss for me. Hickman ignores the continuity that several writers established. Bendis established the ultimate universe still existed in Spider-men 2, Ewing established that the original Ultimates team returned to find the Maker in Ultimates², Zdarsky established that the council of Reeds was reformed in Marvel two-in-one. Cates established that the Maker wanted to join the council of Reeds but needed to be in his native universe to join. Oddly enough, the Maker would be familiar with the idea of a council of Reeds considering in ultimate fantastic four, a Reed mentioned a group of Reeds coming together but turned out to be the zombies universe. Maker ends up on his world and the Ultimates are missing presumably because they are still looking for him across the multiverse. Before Hickman, there was surprisingly a cohesive story.
No criticism towards you, but this story was hard to follow. Probably because of all the moving parts.
I've always likes Hickman's storytelling but this seems a little flat for him. He is at his best when unrestrained by editorial interference (like Marvel/Disney) and I think that is why he left X-Men. He may be just padding out his current contract. I still can't wait to see what he has up his sleeves for a creator owned project
Oh, spoilers! I leave my like, my comment and I will be back in 6 months after I finally read it.
Underwhelmed for the most part. It's not the Ultimate universe we knew. It's a new Ultimate Universe. Well then why not call it something else. The only bit I liked is Reed/Doom is wearing a Doom costume
Ultimate comment
Ultimate response.
@@StrangeBrainParts Ultimate comment rumor:
I saw somewhere that before his accident, it was supposed to be Donny Cates writing this.
Im just glad he's ok, his Venom series is THE Venom run.
Eh…it’s hard to care.
It’s A Ultimate Invasion, but not THE Ultimate Invasion.
Why Hickman left the X men:
Have you read any of the crap written by the dumpster fire collection of authors they assembled for the spin off books from what he started with HOX/POX? I’d want to get the hell away too before he destroyed his brand
God I hope not
I laughed my butt off at the ridiculous price marvel had, 8.99? Man that was funny.
Such stupid and misplaced arrogance.
Eh, I'm not a big fan of the Ultimate Universe, so I'll pass.
Ultimate invasion was so disappointing in my opinion.
Why would anyone support Marvel and DC at this point? Most of their employees told people not to buy their comics and have shit on all the most popular characters. I mean the X Men don't fight anymore. They sit around a table and say "you go girl" and drink wine. There's a damn fashion show series? Who the hell wants to read that crap? Not to mention DC making everyone gay for self insert reasons. No thanks
Yep
Spider Ham's real name should have been Peter Porkchop. There. I said it.
Bring back Forbush Man!!!
Yes!
Who else thinks stuff about things?
Sometimes I do. Sometimes I also feel ways about stuff, too.