Ex Alcoholics Anonymous Board member talks - after he reads her Letter sent to The WORLD AA BOARD.
Vložit
- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- This one hour interview from 2011 when Monica first began to make the film The 13th Step, is with an EX AA Board Member, Jim B. who exposes what the AA Board did after Monica's 7 page letter was sent to NY AA world headquarters.
This is a great interview. I’m 12 years sober and leaving AA because of a multitude of factors including bullying, demeaning old timers comments about newcomers or members that are busy with work, family, exploring hobbies and enjoying their life. I think they 12 steps are amazing for transformation because the practices of self-analysis in inventory, making amends, watching for unhealthy thinking patterns etc. These are good things for anyone to do. However, the fellowship has ruined AA because there is so many egotistical and abusive individuals.
I too found it shocking when I interviewed him how they tried to hide the sexual assults . I mean AA in NY
Well said.
@@monica_richardson. Hello. Is this man, Jim Brissey? I would like more information on him to buy his book. I would like to research more facts about AA and recovery myself. Thank you.
Aa 'fellowship' is where the real dark artists ply their craft. Anyone attending would do well to watch from within their boundaries.
Monica’s work is nothing short of heroic. She has true courage and compassion to bring this information to light.
Thank you so much !
I just learned of her today! She is amazing and as far as 12 Step meetings are concerned they are terrible for allowing this kind of behavior to run rampant.
@@GoatGarrett72 That's a sweeping untrue statement in my home group we had a individual who was acting inappropriately and it was dealt with straight away stop lying you might be stopping someone recovering.
@@thetruthk5138Were telling AA the same thing. Stop lying because they're stopping ppl from recovering. I worked the steps with a sponsor and the only thing that got me out of the rooms was becoming more of an old-timey religious fanatic with Islam instead of AA. Deconverting and deconstructing from that has done more for the anxiety that caused my problem drinking than changing from drugs and alcohol to God and spirituality ever did.
If you want what I have you DONT have to be willing to go to any lengths to get it. I used to be a hard-core 12-stepper and I'm sure the only thing more cringe than that was some of my 9th steps just reminding ppl of some stupid shit I did that they probably forgot about. Hanging around mostly AA ppl changes what feels "normal" when you normally go to meetings. That feeling of being different than everyone outside the rooms carries over and makes the member more dependent on the group. The constant inventory taking is a way of making it your problem if the prgram doesn't work, while it's the program getting the credit for any success. That's a recipe for low self-esteem and being easily manipulated because u don't trust ur own abilities.
@@thetruthk5138
predators *allowed* to run rampant in meetings can cause people to relapse, which can cause
_people to die_ ,
new members are especially vulnerable & need to be protected from predatory types, this should be discussed *openly* not overlooked or downplayed, if you or someone you know was victimized wouldn't you want it shouted from the rooftops?
truth is truth,
try a shot.
maybe today?
Thank you so much Monica! Jim, your eloquent rendition of your insights regarding your time spent in AA and your honest appraisal of that group vs alternative methods is invaluable! After over 31 years of membership in AA I have finally become fed up with the groupthink, cultish mentality of this method of addressing alcohol dependency. I finally realized that my decision to live a sane and sober life is my choice and does not depend on an unhealthy attachment to a sponsor or group of people who continue to identify themselves as broken and powerless. I did achieve one thing while being an active member early on and that was a conscious connection to a part of myself that is composed of self love and hope of a useful life. I made a clean break after informing the woman who I chose (out of fear at the time) to be my "sponsor" and a woman I was "sponsoring" that I felt I was in bondage to AA instead of being FREE. If in the future I feel a need to address emotional distress I will seek a good CB therapist. Thank you to you both for your unselfish and enlightening work! Please keep it up. 😊👏
HI Rhonda- wow 31 years is a very long time - to be in ... Glad you got your freedom as did I and JIM and thousands of us. Do you miss community or have you joined my FB groups are are you not in need of that ?
@@monica_richardson Hi Monica. Sorry I've taken so long to reply. There was about a decade that I didn't actively go to meetings from about 2010 to 2020 and did just fine. I would occasionally call my sponsor and meet up with her and her sponsees at Christmas during those years. Anyway, I and my husband moved to FL about 4 years ago and I became overwhelmed with the changes. We lived in a tiny house while our home was being built, my oldest brother whom I adored passed away, I had a mastectomy, and other Life events just got to me. I RAN back to AA out of sheer fear that I was losing it. Grabbed a very high energy sponsor and started back to daily meetings and "working" on myself. I honestly say it did help ground me a bit but after about 3 years of that I remembered why I backed away from AA initially. Was feeling smothered again by the sponsor and others in AA. I am doing well without meetings and the cult like mentality of all of it. Thank you for your insights. I will continue to watch you on CZcams and I may join you Facebook. Keep carry the REAL message!💖
@@monica_richardson Hi Monica. Your videos and documentary are great. I was wondering what your take was, regarding how AA's demographic changed. When it started, it was only aimed at upper middle class WASP men, but now, it's primarily comprised of an almost quasi-lumpenproletarian milieu. What are your thoughts and possible explanation as to that? Thanks.
I think they have gone after any crowd they can get in there. @@ShannonFreng
@@monica_richardson Undoubtedly. I'm a pragmatic agnostic, but even some of my Christian friends with theology degrees consider AA to advocate idolatry, in its position that God could be anything one wished. It's indeed pathetic, the way AA tries to thinly-veil its obviously Christian stance.
Great video. I have been alcohol free for over 5 years. Only when I go to an AA meeting do I actually feel bad about my sobriety because I'm labelled a "dry drunk" or that my sobriety is lesser than another person's because I'm "white knuckling."
Monica - I recently discovered you on YT and have been enjoying the content. This interview in particular is _excellent._ Thank you for posting it.
Saved this and will be passing it around.
You are so welcome!
@@monica_richardson What was the name of the book he wrote? I could swear he mentioned a book that he wrote about all of this stuff ??
It was great hearing someone else talk about the same things I've experienced and seen happening in AA. I took Campral and still take antidepressants whilst I went to AA which other members had previously told me not to do. Then and only then did I manage to stay sober after following their previous bad advice. I eventually left after working my way through their program which is nothing more than learning to keep your conscience clean which I confirmed with one of the 'old timers'. So, that was me done and dusted with AA. I know for a fact a lot of people don't stay in rooms too, I've seen more people who used to go to AA than people that still go. Anyway, great video!
I'm a qualified nurse and post grad in substance use from University and Medical School. I used to allow myself to be interrogated by a fucking office worker about my meds. This prick wanted to know everything but wouldn't give anything more than an elaborate word salad in return. I felt duped when the realisation came that my politeness in self disclosure was energy for them. Then hurt and angry but now freeeeeee.
It also says in the big book about using outside help drs are there for a reason
The coercion tactics used by AA are unbelievable. At the time of its inception, it was most likely cutting edge, but now? No.
I was in aa for five years, I went to mmtings studied the big book from front to back,worked the steps. I was finally asked to speak in an open meeting and I agreed. I lived in a small community. I woke up the next day that my story had been published in the local paper. I did not give my permission and or would ihave done it. My annomity had been expoed. I left an after that and will never go back again. It is a treactures bs program
Thankyou Jim for your talk.
So a lot of old timers, and those who were in it and doing it all for years,
are now stating on the internet that it is a cult and it don't work.
There are also a lot of old timers and steppers in AA NA that are saying its not a cult and it works.
I have nothing to say about those things .
All i'm saying is , I couldn't get and stay off the many times I tried it over the twenty odd years that I went.
The last time I put full effort into it and did all suggestions every day including the day I used marijuana again.
I'm now doing something else to help myself.
I'm learning to keep weed under control cutting down with a view, to stopping, alone.
Glad you found a different path that worked.
Research The Sinclair Method
I use cannabis moderately and it has been saving my life for almost 3 yrs. Why didn't I go back to it b4 ???? Because I thought the 12 steps would cure my anxiety 😂😂😂😂
CBT did not work for me. EMDR worked for me.
Some of us have no idea what those initials mean?
@@lynnglidewell7367Eye Movement desensitization and reprocessing.
@@jayjaychadoy9226 THC CBD & TLC worked for me.
I’ve been waiting so many years to feel validated. In a few minutes I already feel validated. Alcoholics Anonymous hurt me in so many ways
I had to defend myself after being attacked. I was rattled because it could have been much worse than it was and I am never violent. I spoke with someone who I thought was a close friend about it. He lectured me and made me feel unvalidated. Not an ounce of empathy. What made it so bad was that a year before this. He punched a taxi driver and I listened to him without any judgement. These people are next level wankers.
Thanks so much Monica and Jim !
1.5yrs of AA, no drinking but yep indeed, feeling a little more sane after hearing that.
this is incredible
Been sober 18years because of AA and the grace of god.Dont think think any thing else would have worked.
Awesome testimony. Just remember to capitalize the "G" in God. It shows reverence and respect.
Wow. This is amazing. I could see this man is genuinely sad about all of it. More and more atheists and agnostics around the world. But also revival of "spirituality" woohoo stuff with millennials...This stuff and trends always comes and goes...Take care of yourselves, think for yourselves. DON'T think you are going to AA and you are gonna be safe. DON'T. The love-bombing is real, untreated personality disorder's, untreated mental illness...You're in for a world of your own trauma being activated all over again...With no professionals in sight.
Just remember AA is to get sober , that's all it is for , people be out here confusing the crap out of it
“Spiritual woohoo stuff” is nothing new. I was into crystals and the like in the 80s, but quickly outgrew the “stuff”!😅
Good talk. I went to aa 1992 to 1998... again 2001 to 2007... since 2007 till today 2023... i am 3 or 4 days sober. All my life success come from aa. Then i lost it all. Twice. When i drank again.my drinking always got worse. When i was sober. I worked steps. Helped others. Sponsored 25 men and 1 woman. I lived tge promises. I was a big book preacher
I left aa because of the crazies. So now 16yrs later. I look at aa again. It sounds like aa has gone to the rubbish dump. So sad. Aa saved me. I know people also saved from aa. Thanks for sharing. Thanks jim.
It has not gone to rubbish. I hope you come back- if you feel like it. AA has saved my life and given me a life for over 25 years & I see it happening to others all around me in AA. What I hear in these videos does not ring true for me at all- other then them taking possible , isolated flaws and giving them way too much thought and emphasis- there are miracles in AA - if someone wants to try AA and is open to miracles. If not , that’s OK too. Live and Let Live
@@allisonblaustein7898AA does nothing to treat or address the neurological cause of Alcohol Use Disorder. Neither does it stop cravings, which are the primary cause of relapse. You can't pray away a neurological brain disorder.
Research The Sinclair Method.
No offense, but I do NOT believe in sponsorship. I believe in mentorship and making yourself available, but anyone can say they're a sponsor yet so many are on the edge of a drink themselves. I am 25 years sober. I highly recommend a person employ a good therapist or discuss their issues with an outside 3rd party. Anonymity has left the building. Careful what you share and with whom you share. It's a very tight, little community.
Is there any more videos with this great man ?
no - this was the only interview I think he ever did. I drove 800 miles to get it. :)
How come other methods of staying sober or clean are not offered to people in rehabs? There are other methods like smart recovery for example. Medication assisted treatment, among others. Some people get sober with church and religion. Everyone is different so different methods work for different people.
Because the 12-step methodology costs less (if anything); qualified people aren't required. You could hire a bum off the street to be a 'counsellor.'
@@ShannonFreng
I respectfully disagree.
AA all the rehabs & courts combined are a major money making business 😉
@@annahgibbus8 Oh, well I agree, completely. AA was just a money-making scam, started by Bill Wilson, which he merely modelled after the Oxford Group. It was originally only aimed at upper middle class WASP men, since they had money. He even sold fake shares in a bogus company, with the ostensible object of publishing the Big Book. But he was later unable to account for various funds, earmarked for that end. Sounds like a guy of high integrity, there. Years later, he battled with the AA board of trustees to give 10% of his estate's royalties to his mistress, Helen Wynn, to which, they finally, begrudgingly agreed to. There are lots of other examples of his untoward history.
Great story, thank you!
I like Monica’s laugh
Thanks but I did think I should delete that laugh ! LOL
My understanding of the AA program is not as dogmatic. The big book definitely suggests getting out side help.. the group's are in charge of AA .it doesn't sound like you believe in the upside down triangle.
What a lovely man.
Interesting to listen to this man but very annoying how this woman continually tries to speak over him and interrupt his train of thought. I'd be interested in hearing him again with her edited out.
Thank you so much for your feed back - we will pass them on to Monica who loves to hear the truth from both sides.
Thank you!
A wise man once said...
Tradition three p141: 'Why did we leave it to each newcomer to decide himself whether he was an alcoholic and whether he should join us?' One of my favorite alcoholics was a woman called Sober Margaret. She admitted and conceded to her inermost self that she was an alcoholic and joined the Fellowship. She had never tasted a drop of alcohol in her life.
Today in 2024 we know a lot more about the AA pioneering times. Akron and New York had very different ideas about what AA needed to be. Bob Smith represented the fundamentalist Christian adherents in Akron while Bill Wilson more open minded ( even when bending over backwards and submitting to Bob's ideas) had his New York members who really weren't warm to all " the God stuff." Very different points of views. Bob was a "Holy Roller" lack of better term, and wanted typical religious conversions before allowing membership. Bill's people in New York had many agnostic and even in the case of Jim Burwell a devot atheist who never drank again till he died in his old age after decades and decades of time in AA. He stayed sober and died that way. Even started other AA groups in various states. So there's always been two schools of thought in AA. Those who lean to the religious and the ones like Jim Burwell and Hank Parkhurst in New York who went with what those days was termed " moral psychology". Which is what Doctor Silkworth and Carl Jung both recommended. In Doctor Silkworth case be believed that moral psychology was best performed by one alcoholic trying to help another alcoholic. He didn't venture into the religious realm. Doctor Silkworth was where Bill got the idea of one alcoholic working with another. Had nothing to do with religion.The doctor was also the one who recognized the physical addiction to alcohol. Nothing to do with "spiritual disease needing spiritual solution". This was what New York wanted foundations of recovery based on. Trouble was Bill had to please Bob out in Akron also. So when time to write the book and program Bill submitted more to Akron then his own New York. It's been convoluted ever since.
I simply will not go back to aa I was used and cheated upon
.I will not expose myself in step 4 (absolutely no way) and I wasted my time doing step 12!!!. I was taken for a ride.Predators both male and female abound.Ewe.
Hi- probably a good idea to not return there. Im sorry that happened to you . yes predators of all sexes there.
You’re a superstar Monica, thank you so much.
I was not expecting this.
I would like to know where in the Big Book that Bill Wilson said character defects are the a”cause” of alcoholism. Also, where did BW ever say the BB and the 12&12 were “dictated by god . . . never to be challenged”. And where did you get your statement that BW advocated treatment centers when he appeared before Congress in 1969? Sounds like to me you made up all this BS yourself! It sounds like you have an enormous resentment you might work on instead of trashing AA.
This is really amazing Monica! History recorded!
Thank you Tom- More to come more to come !!!
@@monica_richardson Yeah, this guy is quite articulate, as opposed to so many semi-illiterate, anti-AA types, whom are quite tedious to listen to.
The Sinclair method is phenomenal.
That was 2012, I wonder whats the story with him now. He seems reasonable guy.
He is a very nice reasonable guy.
very grateful
AT around the 54 minute mark he talks about a book called "The Cure For Alcoholism" and I think he said it's by Dr. Scott Budge - however I cannot find that book on Amazon. Can you put a link to the book in the video description please?
I'll Take a listen and see what he is saying .
@@monica_richardsonI did - I listened to the whole thing. The flaw in his argument is he's clearly making this (alcoholism) a physical issue. It's much more than that. It's a SEMP issue Spiritual, Emotional, Mental and Physical issue. Taking a drug to cure cravings only addresses the Physical. The SEM are STILL unaddressed but need to be. AA does help with that but it's obviously not the only way.
no thats not true for everyone. Alcojhol over use is not a black & white thing. People are unique and EVERYONE is different.@@jontnoneya3404
@@jontnoneya3404 As Monica said , that's not true of everyone but even by your own rationale, why not at least start by taking care of the physical? That's the point of harm reduction, but AA cultists would rather people die.
38 years and I finally see AA is not for me anymore I'm glad I found God and other avenues to take so I keep busy. I been experiencing a lot of bullying by old timers who hog up the meeting time with boring repetitive stuff. Same people running the groups no rotation. I been to a few 12 step groups and they are all the same it's not attractive to me never was .I moved on but still practice the steps to stay spiritually fit . It's one on one with God and keep connecting to Christian minded people. And help people when I can . Prayer and quiet time helps alot
We just had a forum in area 79. And are looking forward to a international convention in 2025.
EMDR can be key in treatment.
AA WORKS for many but it’s not one size fits all
As easy as this guy is to listen to, I didn't feel like wading through over an hour of irrelevant talk, to find out what the board's response was, to that letter. Could someone give me a precis of it all, including what the letter was about?
@@user-ip8sc9ch2eAh, that's shitty. I don't know what's happening with the roommate thing, but I'm having supper with our landlord, tonight, so I'm going to ask him about it. I know my other roommate wants him out (they're brothers, but not mine). He was going to move in with another guy in our building, though.
The board didn't respond, they ignored it. Answer starts at 41:00 mark.
@@pat2562Thanks.
@@user-ip8sc9ch2eUpdate: Well, the roommate we were having trouble with, moved in with the guy who lives in the basement. That was three months ago, but now the guy he moved in with can't stand him either, so he has to be gone, by the end of this month. But now, the guy he moved in with also got an eviction notice, for the same time, for owing back rent. So they might both get the boot. I said to my remaining roommate that I wondered what piece(s) of shit might replace them. One of our landlord's other tenants works as a counsellor at this rehab, and has been supplying him with tenants with these ex-rehab fucks.
@@user-ip8sc9ch2eThanks. I have only one roommate now, who I'm cool with. I talked with the guy who lives beneath us, who my former roommate moved in with, and we agreed it'll be better with that guy gone. He's supposed to moveout anyway, in a couple weeks, so I said everything will be cool for the remaining three of us.
A well of misinformation. Alcoholic beware.
Yes I heard about bills lsd experiment.
I’ve been to thousands of AA meetings and I’ve never heard anyone say that the Big Book or the 12 steps were dictated by God. Maybe that’s a Bible Belt phenomenon. When I sobered up in the 70s, AA in this part of New England was more agnostic. Even then, many if not most people who got sober in AA didn’t keep going to meetings forever. I didn’t. I found it somewhat cult-ish. But it was just what I needed at age 25. Meetings in college towns were/are more open-minded, probably because more educated people attend.
The 12 steps helped me grow up and become a mature, responsible, productive member of society. So I won’t knock AA, although I do recognize it’s not for everyone. And that’s perfectly fine.
Went too ALANON in Ireland for 17 years great program but a certain narcissist person took control and turned it into a cult she messed peoples heads up I tried standing up too her but it was a waste off time now I am being stalked by her entire family network off about three hundred I am a 63 year old Stroke survivor totally disgusting 🇮🇪
So, educated people are more open-minded? Towards what exactly? Have you seen the indoctrination that comes out of Ivy League schools?
Well the thing is there’s a lot of stuff goes on with fellowships and religion look at the Catholic Church 🤣🤣🤣🤣. The thing is the people that are doing those things or the people who talk mess . You see what they’re doing and don’t do it yourself. AA has saved many people including myself . I take what I want and leave the rest
Another guy who has come around and has no idea what he us talking
about. Self-knowledge availed this guy absolutely nothing. He does have a lot misconscrued knowledge. Poor guy.
It is odd that he speaks of human aid and how that helps some. There are such severe cases that these means do not help. Then, the practical program of AA as a spiritual program are effective. This is not some belief in God or new religion. It is a program of identifying deep trauma and how to actively address it. It also allows for AA people to get out of self by facing the harms they have done and making them right; and, to get out of self by being willing to serve others. This out of self life style and action allows for be less driven by personal expectations and transforms a person into one who can accept life on life's terms. This guy goes from human aid sort of help, to religion, to treatment centers and said little about the step process. He may not have taken such course. Just being a memeber of AA does not mean you do the steps.
He was asked why he wanted to find an alternative if he was already sober and alcohol free for many years. In my opinion it's because he hates God and religion.
Really 😮 The suicide and sexual predators thing was just by passed, and which God by the way
AA has occult symbology and origins
@laraparks7018 No occult practices in the original AA program in Akron, Ohio. It was a Christian fellowship. An old fashioned prayer meeting. Yes, Bill W did leave the Oxford group in the summer of 1937 and was highly influenced to change the original Christian and Bible based program by one atheist and two militant agnostics in New York/New Jersey shortly after after the departure. Then he made a few more last-minute changes to the steps, and the Big Book days before the book was to go to the printing press. The two AA groups were nothing alike anymore. One was Christian, and the other was ostensibly spiritual. Bill was not considered maximum by the Christians in the 2nd AA group formed in NY/NJ after exiting the Christian group meeting at Calvary Episcopal Church and rescue mission. Depending on whose story you believe, him and Lois were either kicked out or they quit. They then started their own quasi Christian program. I believe Bill most of his life (sober and drunk) had a resentment against Christianity. He was not maximum in the Oxford group because he was a 3 cigarette packs a day chain smoker and a womanizer. Plus the saying was he took one pill to calm his nerves to function during the day, one pill to sleep at night and another pill to see and talk to God. Thus, he was asked to leave the Oxford group. His resentment allowed him now to be influenced by Hank Parkhurst and Jimmy Burwell. They wanted AA to be partly medical, partly scientific, and partly moral psychology wrapped into one. But no God. They got there way to some extent, but not entirely. Meanwhile Dr. Bob and his associates were continuing as they always had in Akron. Helping drunks to recover from their spiritual sickness by the power of God through his Son Jesus the Christ. Akron and later Cleveland (3rd AA group) is where the vast majority of recovery successes were happening in those first 4 to 5 years of AA history.
@@rodneyjohnson7327 The 13th step should be an indictable crime.
Check out the movie.
Gender based violence , statue of limitations lifted back to 2000... AA should be sued for turning a blind eye to predatory behavior
Interesting. He sounds like he's read a bunch of anti AA stuff and that's okay. He is well informed. If there is something new here I missed it.
Nothing new just decided to release all these interviews one by one because some of the interviews which were an hour long wound up only be a few minutes in the film.
@@monica_richardson please post other interviews full length. Love you so much and thank you for helping not feel crazy anymore
Probably just twisted and bitter I guess
@@thetruthk5138 Typical response from an AA cult freak.
@@lillylovel2404 thank you lilly love - I will be releasing more & more in 2023 -
Donald Trumps Brother!
Call the cops
Surrender and acceptance is the answer.
❤
Great interview but every time the interviewer Monica, says 'Uhum' I'ts so loud and so often! Once you notice, it's like all you can focus on... Try it and see! That's if you have not noticed it all ready!
Yeah, it's rather annoying, I'll admit. Not very professional. The guy looked as if he found the whole thing a bit irksome, too.
This is all very interesting, and am not trying to be condesending but he's giving alot of his own opinion, philosophy, and personal observation of individual events. In AA, you usually here this type of crticism and declarations of high moral principles just before these people themselves perform the same abhorrent behavior that they rail against. I tend to stay away from them although their message holds some weight, because it feels as though they're setting the table for their own bad behavior......
People will look for any reason to depart from the clear cut solution being the 12 steps in the big book! This guy is dangerous to the real alcoholic !
He was on the World Wide AA board so his recitation of historical facts is based on that association. His opinions are based on a level of inside knowledge and involvement far beyond ordinary membership, it is critical to listen to such people.
Hi stepper! Have you told your sponsor you're watching unapproved literature on youtube and you have a resentment?
@@keitht8183my ex said that and I'm still awaiting his amends for raping me
I find what Jim says about scripture interesting. He challenges it by questioning whether it’s true or not. By saying that he is saying he (Jim) knows truth. In order to say you know truth you must have a standard of truth, because it’s not subjective… otherwise it’s not truth.
I would like to know what he thinks contradicts in scripture. And in his worldview, which is not Christian… what’s wrong with contradictions.