Fear is the foundation and addicts, alcoholics are perfect candidates because 1) we feel welcome and understood and 2) we're told this is the last stop on the block, 3) we can't stay sober without them, 4) we can't think for ourselves (get that sponsor) and come EVERY DAY. I did it for 21 years (not every-day). I kept a safe distance for 10 years and then jumped into the social circle with a sponsor with narcissistic personality traits. Good grief, life got good for a while until I refused to follow the leader all the time.. then the silent treatment, the gaslighting, the discard.. My problems started with early childhood trauma. I needed and sought therapy because I had to ask myself why I was involved in this group to begin with. Once you step back from it and look at the group from a impartial view, it's a total clique. I'm not missing listening to these people repeat stories about themselves over and over and over.. God, they love to talk about themselves.
@CathyMartin-ur8gk I'd go further than that. AA was designed for a certain type of WASP, and is a mixture of Calvinism, Freemasonry, and Universalism. I heard a great quote once, but can't remember the exact quote. It went something like, "AA went from a middle brow WASP organization, to one that caters towards the Lumpenproletariat."(which are largely court ordered to attend).
I left about 5 years ago after 6 years and my life has never been better! This year will make 12 years of sobriety! I'm claiming it in advance not copping short 🤣I'm so grateful I found this everything y'all talked about I've experienced, I've deprogrammed, recovering and healing! ✨💫
Thank you for your common sense ladies I've been in and out of AA/NA/CA for years and latterly have sat there seething as my and other vulnerable people's trauma, mental illness, grief and other suffering has been diminished to "poor me" and we have been gas lighted and victim blamed by archaic language and devotees who slavishly follow the cult of AA etc. Since I decided to leave I feel I am healing properly with support from agencies who use science and experience to assist us. With support, I did the work to get sober and straight
I left and drink extremely minimally now and just do yoga and meditation. I received a lot of scorn and abuse from people I thought were close friends when I sculpted a lifestyle that was happier for me. At first I was shamed and then felt so alone that I went back to “the program”. The people in the program are not real friends…it’s all conditional.
Omg yes i know. I was in AA and sober for like 5 years. I picked up a drink and couldn’t not drink compulsively and binging. Until I let go of AA brainwashing and my drinking has gotten to such a minimal level. I realized that I had conditioned my self to believe I was an alcoholic.
You hit the nail on the head. It is all conditional - don't toe the party line and you will find yourself quickly marginalized. I have no room for such in my life these days - if I am going to heal I need to kick those with this mentality to the curb and out of my life.
I got sober in Orange County, California. If you know anything about O.C. It's a huge haven of rehab centers, sober livings and A.A. meetings. I noticed while being a member of A.A. that other members would open up really shady treatment centers and sober livings. They would pay people to go into treatment for X number of days, and this money would come out of the insurance companies. This level of insurance fraud was regularly done with these rehabs in OC. I stayed in AA for a year, seeing many violations of tradition in and out of the rooms and left AA completely after 1 year sober. I am now gonna be drug and alcohol free for 11 years in June.
In Bill’s story my sponsor made me circle all the “I’s” and “me’s”. By the end of that reading I could totally see myself in the story, but not before I put myself there. I’m really mad at the way I fell for the brainwashing. I never should have been in AA from the jump. I was chemically dependent on pain meds and nobody believed me. I was misdiagnosed in rehab and scared straight and medicated with meds I didn’t need. Looking back I can see where my sponsor knew I was different than her and she continued controlling me with fear and gaslighting. I was her little puppet and she loved it until I bucked on her then I was hated throughout the cult. But I was terrified to leave. 6 years later here I am a little over a week outta the cult. Thank you for the 13th step movie. Bit eye opener for those of us who had no idea that was going on and being allowed to continue.
HI - Im so glad you got out ! - Big step - are you in the FB groups - join us if you want . Yes, they can be so controlling. I didnt have this experience but I think AA sponsors have been emboldened to a new height. Not good.
Thank you for this channel. My experience was mental illness untreated. Because I was a newbie my sponsor enlisted my help tending to her greenhouse and no boundaries..I was always so confused!! I am a concrete thinker and needed words I understood. I earned a B.A. in English but felt like a failure in A.A.
I went to a meeting many years back, have not had a drink since then. I recently told someone to set aside all the aa knowledge and believe in yourself. I was very surprised that I had said it. The steppers in aa have taken over in my area and I find it repulsive. Then came the regrets about my involvement, how I had just about given so much all the time being led astray. My realization came about very slowly even though I was holding on. My friend told me about this guy who was a circuit speaker and how wonderful he was. I looked him up and within about two minutes I realized that he was a con with intent on manipulating. I became very angry immediately and ended the video. I now look at my life differently. Sobriety changed the direction and aa kept me distracted for many years. Deprograming can be emotionally difficult but so relieving. Deprograming allows me to look at the world in a different light. If anyone thinks they need to pray for me, remember it's your dime and I really don't give a crap. Better you than me......
There actually is a principle behind each of the 12 steps. Example: 1st Step:Honesty For me, the real disheartening reality of the sponsor/buddy system is these "sponsors" do not have your best interests at heart & this truth will eventually cascade down and eat away the layers of this newfound disingenuous nature (and you know it in your own heart of authenticity) now called 'love'.. ."Brotherly Love", that's actually a 12 step Principle, it's..Step 9 Principle? Yeah right, brotherly love is when you WAKE UP & take whatever was salvageable to believe & leave that dogmatic lunacy.and warning any of your real life friends with steely conviction as to what really happens to "individuals & free thinkers" in the end if he or she decides to go all in with that evil program. We ain't garden variety nothing..we're unique to the craftsmanship of our creator.
It's not about right or wrong. The living sober book was my best experience in A A written by a gay member. Truly expressing if this information doesn't help u we wish u the best on your journey to sobriety.
I loved all the Catholic connections you made in this video. The 4th and 5th are so much like going to confession as a Catholic. So, for me, it made more sense to omit the parts of those steps that were clearly an invasion of privacy (like when you’re supposed to “find your part” in resentments where you were clearly a victim and the sex inventory, etc.) and then I went through my 5th step with a priest and went to confession. It was a really healing process for me but from a spiritual standpoint as a practicing Catholic who was trying to stop drinking. So, I share this wonderful, healing experience I had and people in the rooms absolutely lost their minds. I was obviously going to “die on the street alone” because I wasn’t conforming to proper sponsorship. It’s all so strange. Any recovery program that is *against* other pathways to sobriety or outside support and proclaims that their way is the only way or you will die is clearly a cult preying on people when they are already down.
because I wasn’t conforming to proper sponsorship.--- this is what people are coming to FB groups and complaining about. They were nuts when I went but the last 20 years AA people are so controlling and mean and have really become so arrogant. Glad you got away.
"Any recovery program that is against other pathways to sobriety or outside support and proclaims that their way is the only way or you will die is clearly a cult". That's it in a nutshell. Proves that aa's priority is not people's recovery from addiction. aa's priority is aa.
This really spoke to me. The contradictions drove me nuts. The part about the pink cloud and how you can't ever please them really resonated with me. It's a no win game. I felt obligated to keep going back almost immediately and thanks for this deprogramming movement or I could've lost years. I think a good topic would be how they try to deny people of their identity or the insidious pamphlet about terminal uniqueness. They demand total subservience to vague principles leaving it open for senior members to gaslight. And I fell into this because I wanted a nice support group to be kind and helpful and learn. Ha! That's not what I found. But it was worth it to find the deprogramming movement.
Not sure where my sponsor got em but I also found em on the Google. I will find the part of AA literature that says this, if it exists. 1. Honesty 2. Hope 3. Faith 4. Courage 5. Integrity 6. Willingness 7. Humility 8. Brotherly Love 9. Discipline/Justice 10. Perseverance 11. Spirituality 12. Service I always heard “step 1 is the only 100% step” or “you gotta get honest”. They want you to completely give up your power. This alone proves it’s a dangerous program.
aa has harmed me alot more then it helped me. I wish I would have been aware that It is a very dangerous program. I thought I was safe in a church basement. I was very gullible and naive. After doing service work behind the scenes. I became very uncomfortable around those people. Old timers are really really sick. I know why I was. Their books.
I was involved with AA for more than 10 years. I was very involved. When I decided to leave because of a break up, I was treated like an apostate. 5 years later I’m still sober without AA. I agree, it’s a cult
Working nightshift and being told I was not going to enough meetings and being of service was the solution to everything was horrible for me. I never felt like I had the right to take care of myself. I was in AA off and on for decades. Having poor boundaries and self esteem in AA makes you ripe for exploitation. The people who gave me the advice were wealthy and didn't even have jobs.
This book came out probably 80 years ago. It was never based on conclusions based on fact or evidence. Merely by personal ideas, agenda, bias and promote your needs. I've haven't read it from cover to cover, mostly browsing through. Most of these stories should start with once upon a time
I went to AA meetings with an ex of mine who was an alcoholic. It was really just one big social club where people tried to one-up each other with sadder stories. Then we'd go to a bar around the corner and half the meeting would be there getting drunk!
I could spend an eternity speaking on the dangerous implications of what the brainwashing that goes on in the rooms. I subscribed to being deprogrammed so I really value this because I have been alienated from many good people as a result of my involvement. The very thing I ran to to enrich my relationships has me strained. But honestly I feel relieved that I have seen these videos! Thank you!
Finally people are questioning AA, the most bizarre thing is when someone hasn't drank alcohol for say 12 years but they still refer to being in recovery it's nonsense. Also the amount of men who have been violent against women, plus the deviants who pray on vulnerable individuals. This needs a full TV documentary.
Monica this is so frustrating and true. I grew up in a home with 2 alcoholic parents and was accustomed to alot of toxicity but also knew how wrong it was all my life. When I was 26 I moved to Hawaii and met a much older man who had been "sober" for 20 years. I remember being so excited because I k ew I never wanted to date a person who was a heavy drinker due to what I experienced as a kid. He seemed so kind generous and I felt SAFE foe the first time in my life. But then after 3 months he changed and was so different. He always blamed his gaslighting and emotional abuse of me on alcoholism and then would later blame me. That I didn't know what true love was and I was an alcoholic too because of my folks. And treated me like I was nothing behind closed doors but when I went to meetings as sober support and to gain some insight he was sweet. Only in public really. I questioned him on how his behavior aligned with what the program teaches. Long story short I started to see alot of these people are indeed obsessed with themselves. I ended up in the hospital with a medical emergency and he dumped me. Saying his HIGHER POWER was all he had to answer to. I could not believe it. Ever since then, we did reunite, I was skeptical and a bit resentful of AA. Both of my parents are now sober, have been many years, and told me AA seemed like brainwashing. I spent 4 years working on my I adequecies I never thought I had till I sat in on meetings. And now I feel a little like I lost who I was.
I appreciate this discussion. I never realized how harmful those statements are. Now I wonder how any professional therapist could support AA, and most do.
At every AA meeting all they do is talk about how bad their life was while drinking. Not a word about how great being sober is. It’s all about dragging yourself down emotionally.
Thank you Monica for your hard work and sacrifice and bravery for all of us who have and those still suffering from these idiots. I say idiots but some of them are WORSE
oh for sure there are thousnads of us who think AA is a cult . Were in two groups on FB. Deprogramming from AA and any 12 step group or Leaving AA fb group. Please join us if you want.
@user-ov1wo7tj6h When I finally left AA, something dawned on me. I lost count of all the people that either left after a short time, were constant relapses, or died after drinking/drugging/suicide. It hit me that there were far more of them, than those who were "winners" in AA. I realized that it doesn't work for the vast majority of people.
lol - the spiritual awakening is waking up and realizing these ppl are nuts and you get the hell out of there! Yes, I stayed way too long and really tried over 30 years, dbl digit sobriety several times - AA is not for everyone - was hard to admit it wasn't for me
I know of an AA member who was illiterate that could recite HOW IT WORKS....along with many passages in the Big Book. I was leaving AA for good and I offered to teach him how to read...he said he didn't need to since he has a good memory and recite the Big Book. He claimed he didn't need any other books.
I no some who went to a.a and followed the directions in the book and has now got a p.h.d in English literature from one of the best universities in England.
If you succeed, it's to the credit of AA, but if you fail, it's all *YOUR FAULT.* "You didn't work the steps right." "You didn't do a thorough 4th or 5th step." "You didn't go to enough meetings." Etc...etc...etc.
If you're thinking of joining AA lookup/ research narcissism.At least you will have some idea of what is going on there and no I don't want to be connected there.
Was in and out for years , Relapsing constantly and was so brainwashed by chapter 5 that i was one of them unfortunates that couldn't get it, I could never share my secrets with another member because i didn't trust them. I was always a man with love in my heart for others and i tried to help others only to draw several narcissistic people from the meetings into my life. Narcissists feed of emphaths because they need to be validated. Thanfully on my last relapse after almost dying God showed me what a poisonous programme 12 steps were and how i was still in bondage so i got down on my knees and Jesus finally set me free after wasting decades trying to understand a false doctrine. God bless the people still in bondage may the veil be removed from there eyes ❤
@juliewillis9539 Thank you for sharing that , I had never heard that term and didn't know it existed. I was hoping to reach out and help others so this will be a massive help, I guess I have started working them with a couple of other ex Anonymous users who are Christians like myself and in the short time I have been around these people I already feel free because these people are so honest and open that I can trust them. I don't label myself as an alcoholic/addict anymore and I don't go in to meetings year after year sharing how much of a horrible person I have been because Jesus has set me free , no sponsor could have ever done that because I would of always held back on something . Your message will be a big help to Me and others, Thank you and God bless you and your family ❤️
Oh my lord! I’m so glad I am coming to. I have 6 months sober and I’ve been in and out of aa for the last 7 years. I’m really sick of the narcissistic people, the gas lighting. People literally con people into “service work” AKA doing them favors for hardly any money! The men prey on vulnerable women who are struggling and just coming in the doors! We have a guy who owns his own company and he’ll use newcomers to work for him and then not pay them! Insane!
Yeh it's the same in London.no one can use you unless you let them.experianced it all myself in my early days.i had 3 gay men stalking me around. I eventually learnt to get these people back.i stole there contracts there clients there work there skilled trade people and there business leads and contacts .some of them ended up phoning me asking me to give them work.some guy sold me a rotten old useless car I was stupid enough to trust him pay decent money.i never owned a car or knew nothing about them.i ended up having it off with his secretary and I stole his girlfriend.i.learnt all this from a.a.members and played them at there own game taking and using vulnerable people at the lowest point in life is what some of these low lives do i learnt to do it back.being sober I got better at it.steal there work and clients get rid of them and put my own people in there.all good fun.i love being sober.imagine being in bed with a guys girlfriend and he phones and askes her if she's coming out with him tonight.then tells me what a great lay she was.some of these people are deluded they belive there own lies.what you Do in.life you eventually get back.i love being sober playing mind games i got good at it I use my brain it never used to work.i love being sober.
How to get out of A.A. I have been sober for 35 years without going back out. I believe in God whom I chose to call Jesus Christ. He is the one who keeps me sober. The sponsorship is bogus my sponsor is upset with me because I have not gone to the meeting she goes too. I don't like that.
There are people I like still that go to meetings, and I do have some fond memories of some meetings, it was just time to move on. If I see people from meetings out and about I am nice to them, more power to them. I just moved on...
I am in the same situation. There are some folks in my old home group who I miss. But after 20 years of repetitious meetings it was time to move on. AA is stagnating and not changing with society.
When I was in the 'program ' for many years I eventually learnt it was a massive pick up joint.When I discovered this I rapidly left it.Creepy, creepy,creepy. I fell in in love with someone there but it was genuine however do you think that the fellowship held back on undermining the relationship? .Think again. I have moved on.Also folks don't be bullied into being forced back into the program. JUST WALK AWAY.
James, I'm a long time member of AA and I can assure you that we are not narcissists, the fellowship saved my life and reunited my family, it has made me free and happy, it will do for you too.
@jamesbyrne9312 there is very much those attitude of superiority based on how long one has been sober. That's why no matter what meeting the first question they ask is how much time you have.
I have an experience with being fully involved in AA/CODA/CA (people in Toronto kind of rotate), being treasurer, a sponsor ... and going to rehab, getting briefly back into it, but being unable to unsee what I'd seen in terms of the spiritual aspects contradicting my own (I'm Christian). I'm happier out of it and still sober because alcohol just seems gross now... but I do miss the whole community of strange characters thing... though not enough to go back lol
" but I do miss the whole community of strange characters thing... though not enough to go back lol" Oh wow, now that I think about it this was the only aspect that really drew me as well. I met some really cool people, really cool.I also met lots of complete nut jobs and narcissists, so much narcissism
@@rodneydaub3812 I too met many nice people over decades and too many nuts too. Im glad to be gone . I do not miss the way they socialize . So many are so inappropriate.
I get it. I had an untreated mental illness. And now I'm trying Celebrate Recovery Christian based 12 steps...I still feel it draws me down. Do u have any knowledge of this program or opinions. Thanks.
I have helped poeple to get their spouses out safely- one does have to treat it like a cult but dont call it a cult to your loved one. I can give you some tips .
It does work and help millions. But for those of us who always thought for ourselves and who got used to feeling powerless because of untreated mental illness it is harmful. I am research led just my personality. It is hard to go against a cultural icon. I now know of alternatives. Smart Recovery, real therapy by a licensed professional, Annie Grace books, Cognitive therapy, Harm Reduction, Medication Therapy, Exercise and Nutrition therapy all have a huge effect on cravings and thinking. I had bad experiences I'm glad u r having good ones.
You'll always be gaslighted Monica speaking on this... Hay guys " stay out of the ring, Anger isn't for them" got your back girl. An millions of stories 😉.
Despite the very clear down sides to AA, some people do actually recover and become better human beings through that program alone and go on to simply try to help others through a very genuine sense of compassion. They're rare, but they exist. And who can fault them for that? Saying this as a member who is very close to having received all I can from the program and moving on.
I personally don't have a problem with that. I, being an ex AA member have a problem with the lying and telling people if they don't stay in 12 steps they will die or go to jail. That is toxic and wrong. AA claims it is the only way and it's wrong and damaging to so many people. Informed consent is what matters. Other programs exist.
I occasionally go back to meetings. After 30 years of sobriety I relapsed I no longer could believe in the fictitious God, nor could I continue to repeat the narrative. Fortunately, I found recovery with recovery Dharma when I do go back to meetings, and looked upon as a pathogen, I share the importance of training the mind, and having discipline and willpower. I’m literally looked upon as a virus to their faith. Sitting in meetings is like watching a bunch of blind people describe what they’re not seeing. I do think the regional program might have been more open minded to spiritual practices but today’s is very dogmatic. The most important thing I did learn from AA is service work. not even one friend that I have known for over 40 years of my involvement with spend any time talking to me or going to a meditation class or learning anything about neural science. Probably the most close minded, ignorant delusional people I have ever met. it saddens me.
@jackparsons515 You really shouldn't have trusted Captain Ron (I figured you caught the reference 😆). I attended a couple of Recovery Dharma events, way too leftist for my taste
What I LOVED about going to meetings (I'm not being sarcastic....oh no....lol), so I ask a "deep" question which is perfectly reasonable in an open discussion meeting, certain people who aren't that bright attack me for "overthinking it", then while meditating obvious answers to said "deep" questions come within the next 2 weeks, I say it at an open discussion meeting and the same people who forbid me from asking those questions pat me on the back for "how profound that thought is there Dave". How irritating, but then me getting irritated at people's silly nonsensical fears and pushing them off on me, they get to say whatever silliness they want to but heaven forbid if I say what I want to say (that isn't socially unacceptable outside of AA)...what a double standard. Why should I have to watch every little word I say if I have a valid point? The other thing is (took me years to figure this out)..."quit overthinking it" (said after making a perfectly valid point that was thinking outside the box maybe me attacking a stupid "rule" that some cranky old timers push as fact but contradicts the literature in MANY places BLATANTLY), this is programese for "shut up I don't like what you are saying"...
I believe most of the people in AA did not live the way they Professed, and in most cases, they were completely narcissistic. I wanted everything for them, and if you dare try to give them a boundary, they would make you feel guilty for it or ignore it and walk all over you if you let them until you say no then walk away.
The amount of people who just go to another addiction is also curious. Many people with time gamble detrimentally, are obese, are sex addicts etc. I’m not saying it never works. It got me sober. But after awhile I was mostly friends with people whose whole lives revolved around AA. I know of suicides, OD’s and sexual assaults, financial thefts etc. After a 5 year absence I went back in 2019. I was shocked at how bad it had become. A person with 1 day sober was up front sharing their “experience, strength and hope”. The long term sober people I knew had switched addictions (except for a few amazing people). Nobody had any message that was healthy. The moderator had slept with half the women in the room. (Women 13th step too). The lady I brought hoping to help hooked up that mtg. I pray that AA can go back to its goal of helping the alcoholic (not addict, sex addict, gambler all in one mtg). Also not many pure alcoholics. Mostly dual drugs/alcohol so it was NA in all but name
Hi Monica. I was wondering as to any detailed information regarding Bill Wilson appropriating AA funds for his own use, etc. I heard he got in shit with them for using AA letterhead to write to these doctors, to get them to endorse AA. As well, the 'Founder's Watch'; his arguing to get his mistress, Helen Wynn, 10% of his estate's royalties; he and Smith living off of the first members; Smith trying to get some AA money to pay off his house mortgage, to put off a foreclosure. Anything like that. I enjoy engaging these AA crackpots about stuff like this, especially if it's documented. They often go spare. Thanks.
If we do everything our Book says, strictly without adding or subtracting, then we will have the desired result. Too much adding has been going on - by sponsors and such. There is no word sponsor in the our Book. We did our Step 4 & 5 with a good African priest. Doing steps with a non AA person is allowed by our Book. You don't need sponsors and controlling groups. You don't need big name speakers like Clancy etc. That stuff is made up by sick people wanting power & prestige. Full of their own self-importance. Rehabs have also made up stuff you don't need. Keep it simple and be free.
But did u know Bill W History? He conducted seanances, experimented with psychedelic drugs, while writing this book. I know he was human. But at the end of his life he had the same mistress for 20 years and left his fortune to her. Not his wife. Because my nature is to research, I just couldn't put him or worship him or what he wrote.
@@juliewillis9539learning about the true history of Bill W and his LDS use, seances,13 stepping ect is what finally broke my shelf. I cannot be a part of something that's foundation is a lie.
Almost everything you read had to do with God. That was my problem with Al-Anon. I went to many different meetings in my town but same story. I understand that AA works for some but not for me. I found an addiction therapist to help me. Thanks for the conversation.
I visited the USA four years ago and decided it would be nice to go to an AA meeting in the country of origin. I looked up meetings for that night in Virginia Beach and caught a cab. At the door I was ignored, and after I went inside, I looked around and realised I was the only white person there. I have never in my life felt such blatant hostility. Then it was an hour long foul mouthed whingefest. When the meeting was over I walked out and called the cab to fetch me as soon as possible But if I had to judge the whole of AA by that group I would be as predjudice as Monica and co.
I have 36 years, one day at a time, but actually enjoy hearing thoughtful direct challenges to program literature. The 1939 Big Book was written 30 years before grief counseling was invented (Kubler-ross), 41 years before narcissism, borderline and PTSD were first clinically recognized by inclusion in DSM in 1980. Bill was not 'trauma-informed'. Bill's 1952 12&12 attempted to supplement some omissions from the 1939 Big Book which his contemporaries would not permit him to rewrite. AA needs modern literature, but is too resistant to embrace such change. I encourage newer members to apply p.133 and seek to supplement their 12 Step recovery with outside resources and professional therapists when it seems appropriate. However, I am not hopeful AA itself can ever confront the many members with active untreated personality disorders taking hostages in meetings. One of my first sponsors was in active open recovery from his narcissistic p.d., but his example is very rare. I have never known an AA member in effective recovery from borderline disorder, for example.
I understand your point. But why then did Bill W experiment with psychedelic drugs while writing the Book. Why after all those years of his program he was following did he keep a mistress and leave most of his money to her after his death. Not his poor suffering wife. I think I did some objective research on Bill's biography. Those facts to me were hypocritical and I can't support for me only following his program.
How well did his own program really work in the long run. But a God point. No medical professionals to help him with his depression or other mental health disorders.
Just don't my friend. At least be very very cautious Don't disclose your personal details to ANYONE .Do not debase yourself and do not over extend your self in helping your self .You are likely to be used and rejected. Just don't do it.
Best advice I’ve heard so far. I only know that because for years and years I did the exact opposite and was left to manage the consequences. Hindsight is 20/20 but you still can’t see your *ss
Very true, you tell all your secrets to someone and if you want to leave they will use them against you, worse than the Mafia at least you know what the mafia are like.
I have never experienced what you guys are talking about happening in meetings (not saying it doesn't). AA for me has been a real life saver. Its a selfish program at least that's how I look at it (I went there for myself and no one else, so I wasn't paying attention or not if other people were following the steps or not because I was). I am an avid reader and usually read philosophy, psychology and religion. What I have discovered through reading these different ways of looking at the world is that AA is nothing new. So saying "the big book says this. Isn't that crazy!" ,or "this step says this! Ridiculous!", doesn't accomplish much. You need to go back to the sources which most are thousands of years old.
I’m surprised at the utube content in my algorithm lately, discarding and bemoaning AA. I had no idea there was a group of people who didn’t like it. I think the pure form of it is great (mainly the steps).
You should of gave it to a real alcoholic who could of used the help AA works for millions just because it don’t work for u don’t mean it don’t for others.
Maybe individuals should look at rewind therapy, it's ridiculous that anyone should think it's ok to be with a room full of strangers that problems are to be discussed. Trust is important and to achieve this is unbelievable. But to analyse 12 Steps is insane. Many hardened drinkers have suffered serious problems from childhood FACT, it's called PTSD and different from PTSD, remember that AA meetings are not a hospital room, or a Doctor's surgery nor a place to discuss a problem with a marriage, it's a church room full of strangers who were drunks, you have to be off your head to listen to certain individuals that were drunks. PLEASE READ CAREFULLY, they don't respect any individual but want to tell you their idiotic life story, it's horrendous and stupid. FFS get real.
Do u have an opinion on 12 step Celebrate Recovery? I'm a new Christian but the structure bothers me cause it's so much like A.A. amends etc..but at least for me it's based on The Real Holy Bible.
It is definitely much safer! They have the wisdom to keep the men with the men and the women with the women. This difference alone broke the unhealthy cycle of being exploited by men in AA. I also learned that the women will save your ass not grab your ass”
The sad thing about this material is it is specifically targeting AA. If the majority of people that are NOT Alcoholics and NOT drug addicts would really look closely at their behavior/ thought patterns/habits. They would identify multiple unhealthy "emotional addictions" that they have. What is the purpose of this video? To make yourself feel better? Alcoholics and Drug addicts use their chemicals to do that too, to feel better. The only difference is that people without Substance addictions are not drinking or snorting a line of cocaine, but you are still going for an emotional high (whether it's debating people so you feel like you're right, the excitement of chasing women, being desired by men, watching p""n, the excitement of the unknown, never being satisfied, always wanting more out of life or circumstances, those are emotional addictions and there's hundreds more unhealthy behavior "highs" that NON- substance abuse people chase ) and arguably just as chemically unhealthy to your mind as alcohol or drugs. Emotional Addictions won't kill your body as fast, but it kills your soul/ spirit just as fast and is twice as hard to admit you have and even harder to correct/ turn away from. Sounds like many in here are in their own "vicious cycle". God bless the substance addicted people here and the non-substance addicted people in here. Very few of us have genuine balance in all aspects of our lives.
Keep the focus on myself and only share my experience strength and hope. What comes from the heart reaches the heart! Well said my friend. However, I have been charmed over and over and over again by those silver tongue devils in Alcoholics Anonymous. I know now that is on me and my desperate need for love and attention by the the saviours in the world.
Sounds like a lot of critical thinking went into the comment that was posted. I actually feel quite disappointed by your unloving and defensive reply Ms Cooper. I thought this was a channel where one could hear other educated view points. I won’t be back but I leave only one suggestion, “try coming from a loving heart “ after all its because you care about people that you were motivated to take on the responsibility of putting out new information. Nothing more dangerous for than self righteous anger!
Fear is the foundation and addicts, alcoholics are perfect candidates because 1) we feel welcome and understood and 2) we're told this is the last stop on the block, 3) we can't stay sober without them, 4) we can't think for ourselves (get that sponsor) and come EVERY DAY. I did it for 21 years (not every-day). I kept a safe distance for 10 years and then jumped into the social circle with a sponsor with narcissistic personality traits. Good grief, life got good for a while until I refused to follow the leader all the time.. then the silent treatment, the gaslighting, the discard.. My problems started with early childhood trauma. I needed and sought therapy because I had to ask myself why I was involved in this group to begin with. Once you step back from it and look at the group from a impartial view, it's a total clique. I'm not missing listening to these people repeat stories about themselves over and over and over.. God, they love to talk about themselves.
I am sick of the clicks in A.A. I am black too. I don't feel comfortable with all white program.
@CathyMartin-ur8gk
I'd go further than that. AA was designed for a certain type of WASP, and is a mixture of Calvinism, Freemasonry, and Universalism. I heard a great quote once, but can't remember the exact quote. It went something like, "AA went from a middle brow WASP organization, to one that caters towards the Lumpenproletariat."(which are largely court ordered to attend).
xa is def full of racist. I didn't fit in either as I didn't carry on with all the nonsense talk and racism
I left about 5 years ago after 6 years and my life has never been better! This year will make 12 years of sobriety! I'm claiming it in advance not copping short 🤣I'm so grateful I found this everything y'all talked about I've experienced, I've deprogrammed, recovering and healing! ✨💫
Thank you for your common sense ladies I've been in and out of AA/NA/CA for years and latterly have sat there seething as my and other vulnerable people's trauma, mental illness, grief and other suffering has been diminished to "poor me" and we have been gas lighted and victim blamed by archaic language and devotees who slavishly follow the cult of AA etc. Since I decided to leave I feel I am healing properly with support from agencies who use science and experience to assist us. With support, I did the work to get sober and straight
I left and drink extremely minimally now and just do yoga and meditation. I received a lot of scorn and abuse from people I thought were close friends when I sculpted a lifestyle that was happier for me. At first I was shamed and then felt so alone that I went back to “the program”. The people in the program are not real friends…it’s all conditional.
I hear this all the time . Glad you got away.
Omg yes i know. I was in AA and sober for like 5 years. I picked up a drink and couldn’t not drink compulsively and binging. Until I let go of AA brainwashing and my drinking has gotten to such a minimal level. I realized that I had conditioned my self to believe I was an alcoholic.
You hit the nail on the head. It is all conditional - don't toe the party line and you will find yourself quickly marginalized. I have no room for such in my life these days - if I am going to heal I need to kick those with this mentality to the curb and out of my life.
Because you're not alcoholic
And you never see it the same way again, once it's clear that it's conditional.
This was a great discussion and I love your channel. I know whenever I get out of this cult Im in i will need some Serious therapy. Great job 👍👍
Thank you for exposing the horrible, dysfunctional, dishonorable cult of aa
Oh this is fabulous to listen to!!!! Thank you, Monica and Evelyn!
I got sober in Orange County, California. If you know anything about O.C. It's a huge haven of rehab centers, sober livings and A.A. meetings. I noticed while being a member of A.A. that other members would open up really shady treatment centers and sober livings. They would pay people to go into treatment for X number of days, and this money would come out of the insurance companies. This level of insurance fraud was regularly done with these rehabs in OC. I stayed in AA for a year, seeing many violations of tradition in and out of the rooms and left AA completely after 1 year sober. I am now gonna be drug and alcohol free for 11 years in June.
So you got sober through a.a
@@oDubnobasswithmyhead Yes I did
In Bill’s story my sponsor made me circle all the “I’s” and “me’s”. By the end of that reading I could totally see myself in the story, but not before I put myself there. I’m really mad at the way I fell for the brainwashing. I never should have been in AA from the jump. I was chemically dependent on pain meds and nobody believed me. I was misdiagnosed in rehab and scared straight and medicated with meds I didn’t need. Looking back I can see where my sponsor knew I was different than her and she continued controlling me with fear and gaslighting. I was her little puppet and she loved it until I bucked on her then I was hated throughout the cult. But I was terrified to leave. 6 years later here I am a little over a week outta the cult. Thank you for the 13th step movie. Bit eye opener for those of us who had no idea that was going on and being allowed to continue.
HI - Im so glad you got out ! - Big step - are you in the FB groups - join us if you want . Yes, they can be so controlling. I didnt have this experience but I think AA sponsors have been emboldened to a new height. Not good.
failed businessman thought of a great scam to get rich during prohibition.
I assume you are talking about Bill. W. You think he got rich from AA?
I don't get AA at all. It's the same people telling the same boring story ad nauseum. How's that helping anyone? I just can't seem to understand
Thank you for this channel. My experience was mental illness untreated. Because I was a newbie my sponsor enlisted my help tending to her greenhouse and no boundaries..I was always so confused!! I am a concrete thinker and needed words I understood. I earned a B.A. in English but felt like a failure in A.A.
I went to a meeting many years back, have not had a drink since then. I recently told someone to set aside all the aa knowledge and believe in yourself. I was very surprised that I had said it. The steppers in aa have taken over in my area and I find it repulsive. Then came the regrets about my involvement, how I had just about given so much all the time being led astray. My realization came about very slowly even though I was holding on. My friend told me about this guy who was a circuit speaker and how wonderful he was. I looked him up and within about two minutes I realized that he was a con with intent on manipulating. I became very angry immediately and ended the video. I now look at my life differently. Sobriety changed the direction and aa kept me distracted for many years. Deprograming can be emotionally difficult but so relieving. Deprograming allows me to look at the world in a different light. If anyone thinks they need to pray for me, remember it's your dime and I really don't give a crap. Better you than me......
Thanks for your reply - Im happy you got away.
You obviously aren't sick and insane Lol
After leaving AA I look back at their literature and say to myself “How could I have ever believed this stuff?”.
I said the same thing after I left.
You need to have me on your show.
There actually is a principle behind each
of the 12 steps.
Example:
1st Step:Honesty
For me, the real disheartening reality of the sponsor/buddy system is these "sponsors"
do not have your best interests at heart & this truth will eventually cascade down and eat away the layers of this newfound disingenuous nature (and you know it in your own heart of authenticity) now called 'love'..
."Brotherly Love", that's actually a
12 step Principle, it's..Step 9 Principle?
Yeah right, brotherly love is when you
WAKE UP & take whatever was salvageable to believe & leave that dogmatic lunacy.and warning any of your real life friends with steely conviction as to what really happens to "individuals & free thinkers" in the end if he or she decides to go all in with that evil program.
We ain't garden variety nothing..we're unique
to the craftsmanship of our creator.
They are all about deceiving manipulation
It's not about right or wrong. The living sober book was my best experience in A A written by a gay member. Truly expressing if this information doesn't help u we wish u the best on your journey to sobriety.
I loved all the Catholic connections you made in this video. The 4th and 5th are so much like going to confession as a Catholic. So, for me, it made more sense to omit the parts of those steps that were clearly an invasion of privacy (like when you’re supposed to “find your part” in resentments where you were clearly a victim and the sex inventory, etc.) and then I went through my 5th step with a priest and went to confession. It was a really healing process for me but from a spiritual standpoint as a practicing Catholic who was trying to stop drinking.
So, I share this wonderful, healing experience I had and people in the rooms absolutely lost their minds. I was obviously going to “die on the street alone” because I wasn’t conforming to proper sponsorship. It’s all so strange. Any recovery program that is *against* other pathways to sobriety or outside support and proclaims that their way is the only way or you will die is clearly a cult preying on people when they are already down.
because I wasn’t conforming to proper sponsorship.--- this is what people are coming to FB groups and complaining about. They were nuts when I went but the last 20 years AA people are so controlling and mean and have really become so arrogant. Glad you got away.
I found it interesting to see how many Catholics and ex-Catholics were/are in AA.
"Any recovery program that is against other pathways to sobriety or outside support and proclaims that their way is the only way or you will die is clearly a cult". That's it in a nutshell. Proves that aa's priority is not people's recovery from addiction. aa's priority is aa.
This really spoke to me. The contradictions drove me nuts. The part about the pink cloud and how you can't ever please them really resonated with me. It's a no win game. I felt obligated to keep going back almost immediately and thanks for this deprogramming movement or I could've lost years. I think a good topic would be how they try to deny people of their identity or the insidious pamphlet about terminal uniqueness. They demand total subservience to vague principles leaving it open for senior members to gaslight. And I fell into this because I wanted a nice support group to be kind and helpful and learn. Ha! That's not what I found. But it was worth it to find the deprogramming movement.
Gaslighting is definitely the accurate term I use to describe what has happened to me as a result of my efforts in this organization.
Monica. Your amazing..for so long I have thaugt this and believed it..and I knew I was right. Will be joining you on FB soon. 🙂
Not sure where my sponsor got em but I also found em on the Google. I will find the part of AA literature that says this, if it exists.
1. Honesty
2. Hope
3. Faith
4. Courage
5. Integrity
6. Willingness
7. Humility
8. Brotherly Love
9. Discipline/Justice
10. Perseverance
11. Spirituality
12. Service
I always heard “step 1 is the only 100% step” or “you gotta get honest”. They want you to completely give up your power. This alone proves it’s a dangerous program.
It’s not technically AA as such. Found it on AA Agnostica. It’s by an Native American recovery group called White Bison Inc who designed it
aa has harmed me alot more then it helped me. I wish I would have been aware that It is a very dangerous program. I thought I was safe in a church basement. I was very gullible and naive. After doing service work behind the scenes. I became very uncomfortable around those people. Old timers are really really sick. I know why I was. Their books.
Over 90% of the oldtimer's are angry & arrogant as hell. I somtimes think they know deep down it is bullshit but are in denial about it.
I was involved with AA for more than 10 years. I was very involved. When I decided to leave because of a break up, I was treated like an apostate. 5 years later I’m still sober without AA. I agree, it’s a cult
I left after 12 years. So much happier without the judgmental gossip.
I left after a year and a half. I was brainwashed for 3 and a half months at rehab.
Working nightshift and being told I was not going to enough meetings and being of service was the solution to everything was horrible for me. I never felt like I had the right to take care of myself. I was in AA off and on for decades. Having poor boundaries and self esteem in AA makes you ripe for exploitation. The people who gave me the advice were wealthy and didn't even have jobs.
Been there .Going to meeting every day and getting a sponsor is not even in there basic text .
This book came out probably 80 years ago. It was never based on conclusions based on fact or evidence. Merely by personal ideas, agenda, bias and promote your needs. I've haven't read it from cover to cover, mostly browsing through. Most of these stories should start with once upon a time
I went to AA meetings with an ex of mine who was an alcoholic. It was really just one big social club where people tried to one-up each other with sadder stories. Then we'd go to a bar around the corner and half the meeting would be there getting drunk!
I could spend an eternity speaking on the dangerous implications of what the brainwashing that goes on in the rooms. I subscribed to being deprogrammed so I really value this because I have been alienated from many good people as a result of my involvement. The very thing I ran to to enrich my relationships has me strained. But honestly I feel relieved that I have seen these videos! Thank you!
thank you . Im glad you got free too !
Finally people are questioning AA, the most bizarre thing is when someone hasn't drank alcohol for say 12 years but they still refer to being in recovery it's nonsense. Also the amount of men who have been violent against women, plus the deviants who pray on vulnerable individuals. This needs a full TV documentary.
you can watch the 13th Step for free now on CZcams, On Apple , on Freevee, Tubi, and Vimeo has a longer version for 1.99.
Monica this is so frustrating and true. I grew up in a home with 2 alcoholic parents and was accustomed to alot of toxicity but also knew how wrong it was all my life. When I was 26 I moved to Hawaii and met a much older man who had been "sober" for 20 years. I remember being so excited because I k ew I never wanted to date a person who was a heavy drinker due to what I experienced as a kid. He seemed so kind generous and I felt SAFE foe the first time in my life. But then after 3 months he changed and was so different. He always blamed his gaslighting and emotional abuse of me on alcoholism and then would later blame me. That I didn't know what true love was and I was an alcoholic too because of my folks. And treated me like I was nothing behind closed doors but when I went to meetings as sober support and to gain some insight he was sweet. Only in public really. I questioned him on how his behavior aligned with what the program teaches. Long story short I started to see alot of these people are indeed obsessed with themselves. I ended up in the hospital with a medical emergency and he dumped me. Saying his HIGHER POWER was all he had to answer to. I could not believe it. Ever since then, we did reunite, I was skeptical and a bit resentful of AA. Both of my parents are now sober, have been many years, and told me AA seemed like brainwashing. I spent 4 years working on my I adequecies I never thought I had till I sat in on meetings. And now I feel a little like I lost who I was.
They Lose their Boundaries if They had any at all..Very true Statement.
Keep up the good work Monica.the more people that stand up and speak out the better.
Thank you back !!! Will do .
I appreciate this discussion. I never realized how harmful those statements are. Now I wonder how any professional therapist could support AA, and most do.
At every AA meeting all they do is talk about how bad their life was while drinking. Not a word about how great being sober is. It’s all about dragging yourself down emotionally.
But yet they say they have the solution.
I'd left AA because they don't like free thinkers
So much gaslighting language in the rooms
Thank you for this video. Also I'm starting comedy classes so glad to hear some of your story.
My sponsor made me clean her yard every weekend to “keep me busy” - it did keep me busy, but she got free lawn service!
Thank you Monica for your hard work and sacrifice and bravery for all of us who have and those still suffering from these idiots. I say idiots but some of them are WORSE
I thought I was the only one that thought AA was a cult. Refreshing to see I'm not the only one.
Far from it
oh for sure there are thousnads of us who think AA is a cult . Were in two groups on FB. Deprogramming from AA and any 12 step group or Leaving AA fb group. Please join us if you want.
What is the name of your group on Facebook please? ❤
I said the cringest things in defense of AA and 12 step when i was in. I want a t shirt that says, 'Im sorry for what I said when I was in a cult.'
Aa is weird but it helps a lot of people stay sober
Not really. The percentage is very low, about as low as people that don't go. Majority of people in AA swap their addiction for a different addiction
@user-ov1wo7tj6h
When I finally left AA, something dawned on me. I lost count of all the people that either left after a short time, were constant relapses, or died after drinking/drugging/suicide. It hit me that there were far more of them, than those who were "winners" in AA. I realized that it doesn't work for the vast majority of people.
lol - the spiritual awakening is waking up and realizing these ppl are nuts and you get the hell out of there! Yes, I stayed way too long and really tried over 30 years, dbl digit sobriety several times - AA is not for everyone - was hard to admit it wasn't for me
thank you !!! Lucky we are free.
If you need any new stories from a failed AAer but is living soberly without AA. I have stories.
I love your channel!
I know of an AA member who was illiterate that could recite HOW IT WORKS....along with many passages in the Big Book. I was leaving AA for good and I offered to teach him how to read...he said he didn't need to since he has a good memory and recite the Big Book. He claimed he didn't need any other books.
some strange folks sitting in some of those meetings
@@monica_richardson I'd go so far as to say MANY strange folks sitting in some of those meetings.....
That person is sadly very brainwashed. Those are the types that go to 20 meetings a week and have no idea how to live in reality.
I no some who went to a.a and followed the directions in the book and has now got a p.h.d in English literature from one of the best universities in England.
If you succeed, it's to the credit of AA, but if you fail, it's all *YOUR FAULT.*
"You didn't work the steps right."
"You didn't do a thorough 4th or 5th step."
"You didn't go to enough meetings."
Etc...etc...etc.
You didn't get out of yourself by doing service work.....
So true!!
That is what cults do
Love This! Went from AA to MM and it's worked way better for me.
If you're thinking of joining AA lookup/ research narcissism.At least you will have some idea of what is going on there and no I don't want to be connected there.
Besides narcissistic p.d. the other most common disruptive disorder in AA may be borderline p.d.
Was in and out for years , Relapsing constantly and was so brainwashed by chapter 5 that i was one of them unfortunates that couldn't get it, I could never share my secrets with another member because i didn't trust them. I was always a man with love in my heart for others and i tried to help others only to draw several narcissistic people from the meetings into my life. Narcissists feed of emphaths because they need to be validated.
Thanfully on my last relapse after almost dying God showed me what a poisonous programme 12 steps were and how i was still in bondage so i got down on my knees and Jesus finally set me free after wasting decades trying to understand a false doctrine. God bless the people still in bondage may the veil be removed from there eyes ❤
Thank you. Do u have an opinion on the 12 steps of Celebrate recovery if u r familiar with it
@juliewillis9539 Thank you for sharing that , I had never heard that term and didn't know it existed. I was hoping to reach out and help others so this will be a massive help, I guess I have started working them with a couple of other ex Anonymous users who are Christians like myself and in the short time I have been around these people I already feel free because these people are so honest and open that I can trust them. I don't label myself as an alcoholic/addict anymore and I don't go in to meetings year after year sharing how much of a horrible person I have been because Jesus has set me free , no sponsor could have ever done that because I would of always held back on something . Your message will be a big help to Me and others, Thank you and God bless you and your family ❤️
Oh my lord! I’m so glad I am coming to. I have 6 months sober and I’ve been in and out of aa for the last 7 years. I’m really sick of the narcissistic people, the gas lighting. People literally con people into “service work” AKA doing them favors for hardly any money! The men prey on vulnerable women who are struggling and just coming in the doors! We have a guy who owns his own company and he’ll use newcomers to work for him and then not pay them! Insane!
Yeh it's the same in London.no one can use you unless you let them.experianced it all myself in my early days.i had 3 gay men stalking me around. I eventually learnt to get these people back.i stole there contracts there clients there work there skilled trade people and there business leads and contacts .some of them ended up phoning me asking me to give them work.some guy sold me a rotten old useless car I was stupid enough to trust him pay decent money.i never owned a car or knew nothing about them.i ended up having it off with his secretary and I stole his girlfriend.i.learnt all this from a.a.members and played them at there own game taking and using vulnerable people at the lowest point in life is what some of these low lives do i learnt to do it back.being sober I got better at it.steal there work and clients get rid of them and put my own people in there.all good fun.i love being sober.imagine being in bed with a guys girlfriend and he phones and askes her if she's coming out with him tonight.then tells me what a great lay she was.some of these people are deluded they belive there own lies.what you Do in.life you eventually get back.i love being sober playing mind games i got good at it I use my brain it never used to work.i love being sober.
How to get out of A.A. I have been sober for 35 years without going back out. I believe in God whom I chose to call Jesus Christ. He is the one who keeps me sober. The sponsorship is bogus my sponsor is upset with me because I have not gone to the meeting she goes too. I don't like that.
Hey, I am a Christian who left AA as well. Do you know there is a Christian leaving AA group on facebook?
Check out celebrate recovery meeting they are now every were .we are Christian and introduced are selfs as a believer in Jesus.
There are people I like still that go to meetings, and I do have some fond memories of some meetings, it was just time to move on. If I see people from meetings out and about I am nice to them, more power to them. I just moved on...
I am in the same situation. There are some folks in my old home group who I miss. But after 20 years of repetitious meetings it was time to move on. AA is stagnating and not changing with society.
@@christinel6616 Religions have changed with the times yet AA is still stuck in the 1930's.
When I was in the 'program ' for many years I eventually learnt it was a massive pick up joint.When I discovered this I rapidly left it.Creepy, creepy,creepy. I fell in in love with someone there but it was genuine however do you think that the fellowship held back on undermining the relationship?
.Think again. I have moved on.Also folks don't be bullied into being forced back into the program. JUST WALK AWAY.
It’s a cult of narcissists
Can u elaborate. I am thinking of joining AA
James, I'm a long time member of AA and I can assure you that we are not narcissists, the fellowship saved my life and reunited my family, it has made me free and happy, it will do for you too.
@jamesbyrne9312 there is very much those attitude of superiority based on how long one has been sober. That's why no matter what meeting the first question they ask is how much time you have.
@@steveroutley9127so you assume that people in the video weren't in AA?
I have an experience with being fully involved in AA/CODA/CA (people in Toronto kind of rotate), being treasurer, a sponsor ... and going to rehab, getting briefly back into it, but being unable to unsee what I'd seen in terms of the spiritual aspects contradicting my own (I'm Christian). I'm happier out of it and still sober because alcohol just seems gross now... but I do miss the whole community of strange characters thing... though not enough to go back lol
" but I do miss the whole community of strange characters thing... though not enough to go back lol"
Oh wow, now that I think about it this was the only aspect that really drew me as well. I met some really cool people, really cool.I also met lots of complete nut jobs and narcissists, so much narcissism
@@rodneydaub3812 I too met many nice people over decades and too many nuts too. Im glad to be gone . I do not miss the way they socialize . So many are so inappropriate.
I get it. I had an untreated mental illness. And now I'm trying Celebrate Recovery Christian based 12 steps...I still feel it draws me down. Do u have any knowledge of this program or opinions. Thanks.
I also had a nuance experience. I an a Christian but I'm happier to be out.
how can I get my husband to not leave me for the program? he would choose it over me and has 6 years. he can't see his own cult like indoctrination.
I have helped poeple to get their spouses out safely- one does have to treat it like a cult but dont call it a cult to your loved one. I can give you some tips .
@@monica_richardson thank you so much. I am trying to find the group on Facebook! Is there a way to contact you for this
Would you rather your husband drink again? Is he still sober?
I’m pretty sure when they say we asked for his protection they are talking about asking the door knob for protection
I have tried A.A...then stopped...relapsed!!
Horrific downhill slide😢
Back in A.A...now i have 8 years
It does work and help millions. But for those of us who always thought for ourselves and who got used to feeling powerless because of untreated mental illness it is harmful. I am research led just my personality. It is hard to go against a cultural icon. I now know of alternatives. Smart Recovery, real therapy by a licensed professional, Annie Grace books, Cognitive therapy, Harm Reduction, Medication Therapy, Exercise and Nutrition therapy all have a huge effect on cravings and thinking. I had bad experiences I'm glad u r having good ones.
The principle
Are suppose to be about ethics . And yet many been in aa for years and years do not have it
Just avoid people who emotionally pull you down .
AA is cult !!!
Yes it is
Thank you for your video so much, I've had so many struggles I'd love to tell you my story. Hope your well
Bravo
Drunk quits driving - Harm reduction
AA- The great SHIT SHOW
You'll always be gaslighted Monica speaking on this... Hay guys " stay out of the ring, Anger isn't for them" got your back girl. An millions of stories 😉.
Despite the very clear down sides to AA, some people do actually recover and become better human beings through that program alone and go on to simply try to help others through a very genuine sense of compassion. They're rare, but they exist. And who can fault them for that? Saying this as a member who is very close to having received all I can from the program and moving on.
I personally don't have a problem with that. I, being an ex AA member have a problem with the lying and telling people if they don't stay in 12 steps they will die or go to jail. That is toxic and wrong. AA claims it is the only way and it's wrong and damaging to so many people. Informed consent is what matters. Other programs exist.
Love this it’s the truth
I occasionally go back to meetings. After 30 years of sobriety I relapsed I no longer could believe in the fictitious God, nor could I continue to repeat the narrative. Fortunately, I found recovery with recovery Dharma when I do go back to meetings, and looked upon as a pathogen, I share the importance of training the mind, and having discipline and willpower. I’m literally looked upon as a virus to their faith. Sitting in meetings is like watching a bunch of blind people describe what they’re not seeing. I do think the regional program might have been more open minded to spiritual practices but today’s is very dogmatic. The most important thing I did learn from AA is service work. not even one friend that I have known for over 40 years of my involvement with spend any time talking to me or going to a meditation class or learning anything about neural science. Probably the most close minded, ignorant delusional people I have ever met. it saddens me.
@jackparsons515
You really shouldn't have trusted Captain Ron (I figured you caught the reference 😆). I attended a couple of Recovery Dharma events, way too leftist for my taste
What I LOVED about going to meetings (I'm not being sarcastic....oh no....lol), so I ask a "deep" question which is perfectly reasonable in an open discussion meeting, certain people who aren't that bright attack me for "overthinking it", then while meditating obvious answers to said "deep" questions come within the next 2 weeks, I say it at an open discussion meeting and the same people who forbid me from asking those questions pat me on the back for "how profound that thought is there Dave". How irritating, but then me getting irritated at people's silly nonsensical fears and pushing them off on me, they get to say whatever silliness they want to but heaven forbid if I say what I want to say (that isn't socially unacceptable outside of AA)...what a double standard. Why should I have to watch every little word I say if I have a valid point? The other thing is (took me years to figure this out)..."quit overthinking it" (said after making a perfectly valid point that was thinking outside the box maybe me attacking a stupid "rule" that some cranky old timers push as fact but contradicts the literature in MANY places BLATANTLY), this is programese for "shut up I don't like what you are saying"...
Like keep it simple stupid 🤦🏻♀️🤣 I love philosophy. Probably Why I saw through it. Stayed 8 years.
I believe most of the people in AA did not live the way they Professed, and in most cases, they were completely narcissistic. I wanted everything for them, and if you dare try to give them a boundary, they would make you feel guilty for it or ignore it and walk all over you if you let them until you say no then walk away.
Keep coming back ladies #;! 😉 ☝️💯👊 AA
The amount of people who just go to another addiction is also curious. Many people with time gamble detrimentally, are obese, are sex addicts etc. I’m not saying it never works. It got me sober. But after awhile I was mostly friends with people whose whole lives revolved around AA. I know of suicides, OD’s and sexual assaults, financial thefts etc. After a 5 year absence I went back in 2019. I was shocked at how bad it had become. A person with 1 day sober was up front sharing their “experience, strength and hope”. The long term sober people I knew had switched addictions (except for a few amazing people). Nobody had any message that was healthy. The moderator had slept with half the women in the room. (Women 13th step too). The lady I brought hoping to help hooked up that mtg. I pray that AA can go back to its goal of helping the alcoholic (not addict, sex addict, gambler all in one mtg). Also not many pure alcoholics. Mostly dual drugs/alcohol so it was NA in all but name
So true!!
Hi Monica. I was wondering as to any detailed information regarding Bill Wilson appropriating AA funds for his own use, etc. I heard he got in shit with them for using AA letterhead to write to these doctors, to get them to endorse AA. As well, the 'Founder's Watch'; his arguing to get his mistress, Helen Wynn, 10% of his estate's royalties; he and Smith living off of the first members; Smith trying to get some AA money to pay off his house mortgage, to put off a foreclosure. Anything like that. I enjoy engaging these AA crackpots about stuff like this, especially if it's documented. They often go spare. Thanks.
Thank you so much for your channel ❤. God bless us all and I know deprograming is hard. I still suffer from the abusive things said
If we do everything our Book says, strictly without adding or subtracting, then we will have the desired result. Too much adding has been going on - by sponsors and such. There is no word sponsor in the our Book. We did our Step 4 & 5 with a good African priest. Doing steps with a non AA person is allowed by our Book. You don't need sponsors and controlling groups. You don't need big name speakers like Clancy etc. That stuff is made up by sick people wanting power & prestige. Full of their own self-importance. Rehabs have also made up stuff you don't need. Keep it simple and be free.
Thanks for that Paige.
@@blutgeistindrae8532 😁
Idolatry much?
But did u know Bill W History? He conducted seanances, experimented with psychedelic drugs, while writing this book. I know he was human. But at the end of his life he had the same mistress for 20 years and left his fortune to her. Not his wife. Because my nature is to research, I just couldn't put him or worship him or what he wrote.
@@juliewillis9539learning about the true history of Bill W and his LDS use, seances,13 stepping ect is what finally broke my shelf. I cannot be a part of something that's foundation is a lie.
I feel that it is a cult because they took the lords prayer out. And I don't feel connected to God .
Why can't I be my own Higher Power? Well, I can, provided I don't try being your Higher Power.
You’re not God. There’s only one God and it’s not you.
Perfect referring to the Big book and questioning it and show the skewed perception in aa .
Everything about those "12" steppers is a lie!
Almost everything you read had to do with God. That was my problem with Al-Anon. I went to many different meetings in my town but same story. I understand that AA works for some but not for me. I found an addiction therapist to help me. Thanks for the conversation.
I visited the USA four years ago and decided it would be nice to go to an AA meeting in the country of origin. I looked up meetings for that night in Virginia Beach and caught a cab. At the door I was ignored, and after I went inside, I looked around and realised I was the only white person there. I have never in my life felt such blatant hostility. Then it was an hour long foul mouthed whingefest. When the meeting was over I walked out and called the cab to fetch me as soon as possible But if I had to judge the whole of AA by that group I would be as predjudice as Monica and co.
I have 36 years, one day at a time, but actually enjoy hearing thoughtful direct challenges to program literature. The 1939 Big Book was written 30 years before grief counseling was invented (Kubler-ross), 41 years before narcissism, borderline and PTSD were first clinically recognized by inclusion in DSM in 1980. Bill was not 'trauma-informed'. Bill's 1952 12&12 attempted to supplement some omissions from the 1939 Big Book which his contemporaries would not permit him to rewrite.
AA needs modern literature, but is too resistant to embrace such change. I encourage newer members to apply p.133 and seek to supplement their 12 Step recovery with outside resources and professional therapists when it seems appropriate. However, I am not hopeful AA itself can ever confront the many members with active untreated personality disorders taking hostages in meetings. One of my first sponsors was in active open recovery from his narcissistic p.d., but his example is very rare. I have never known an AA member in effective recovery from borderline disorder, for example.
I understand your point. But why then did Bill W experiment with psychedelic drugs while writing the Book. Why after all those years of his program he was following did he keep a mistress and leave most of his money to her after his death. Not his poor suffering wife. I think I did some objective research on Bill's biography. Those facts to me were hypocritical and I can't support for me only following his program.
How well did his own program really work in the long run. But a God point. No medical professionals to help him with his depression or other mental health disorders.
Thanks for showing me what he wrote that didn't get into the literature.
A”spiritual program” should not alienate Jesus.
SO true !
Smart Recovery;)
It's a horrible writing and of course it is because it was written by someone who was NEVER sober.
Just don't my friend. At least be very very cautious
Don't disclose your personal details to ANYONE .Do not debase yourself and do not over extend your self in helping your self .You are likely to be used and rejected. Just don't do it.
Best advice I’ve heard so far. I only know that because for years and years I did the exact opposite and was left to manage the consequences. Hindsight is 20/20 but you still can’t see your *ss
Very true, you tell all your secrets to someone and if you want to leave they will use them against you, worse than the Mafia at least you know what the mafia are like.
I have never experienced what you guys are talking about happening in meetings (not saying it doesn't). AA for me has been a real life saver. Its a selfish program at least that's how I look at it (I went there for myself and no one else, so I wasn't paying attention or not if other people were following the steps or not because I was).
I am an avid reader and usually read philosophy, psychology and religion. What I have discovered through reading these different ways of looking at the world is that AA is nothing new. So saying "the big book says this. Isn't that crazy!" ,or "this step says this! Ridiculous!", doesn't accomplish much. You need to go back to the sources which most are thousands of years old.
Any time my ears listened for lies, they found a tongue that was delighted to tell them.
Thank you very much!!!
Great review, here’s an example of most men in AA that watch this video, that Blonde is a HOTTIE!!!
I’m surprised at the utube content in my algorithm lately, discarding and bemoaning AA. I had no idea there was a group of people who didn’t like it. I think the pure form of it is great (mainly the steps).
i never read that book on my own .i hucked it right in the trash 😆
You should of gave it to a real alcoholic who could of used the help AA works for millions just because it don’t work for u don’t mean it don’t for others.
@@trippleglacks2663 I don't want what you've got. You haven't got REAL recovery.
@@petemcc152 umm 🤨 👌 whatever u think.
And how’s your drinking these days.
The first 164 pages of the BB contain god nearly 500 times!
So true - 493 times - we counted them when making the film The 13th Step.
Love you great work
Anybody who has never told a lie in their life is not a liar.
Why forgive people without remorse
Maybe individuals should look at rewind therapy, it's ridiculous that anyone should think it's ok to be with a room full of strangers that problems are to be discussed. Trust is important and to achieve this is unbelievable. But to analyse 12 Steps is insane. Many hardened drinkers have suffered serious problems from childhood FACT, it's called PTSD and different from PTSD, remember that AA meetings are not a hospital room, or a Doctor's surgery nor a place to discuss a problem with a marriage, it's a church room full of strangers who were drunks, you have to be off your head to listen to certain individuals that were drunks. PLEASE READ CAREFULLY, they don't respect any individual but want to tell you their idiotic life story, it's horrendous and stupid. FFS get real.
19:54 Yes I'm Not Powerless 🔥🍀
Agree
The plain English big book may be available by Xmas this year.
Do u have an opinion on 12 step Celebrate Recovery? I'm a new Christian but the structure bothers me cause it's so much like A.A. amends etc..but at least for me it's based on The Real Holy Bible.
It is definitely much safer! They have the wisdom to keep the men with the men and the women with the women. This difference alone broke the unhealthy cycle of being exploited by men in AA. I also learned that the women will save your ass not grab your ass”
I'm a Christian. Celebrate is still 12 step and the steps are what make it a cult. I've heard of SMART, it's abstinence but not culty.
The sad thing about this material is it is specifically targeting AA. If the majority of people that are NOT Alcoholics and NOT drug addicts would really look closely at their behavior/ thought patterns/habits. They would identify multiple unhealthy "emotional addictions" that they have. What is the purpose of this video? To make yourself feel better? Alcoholics and Drug addicts use their chemicals to do that too, to feel better. The only difference is that people without Substance addictions are not drinking or snorting a line of cocaine, but you are still going for an emotional high (whether it's debating people so you feel like you're right, the excitement of chasing women, being desired by men, watching p""n, the excitement of the unknown, never being satisfied, always wanting more out of life or circumstances, those are emotional addictions and there's hundreds more unhealthy behavior "highs" that NON- substance abuse people chase ) and arguably just as chemically unhealthy to your mind as alcohol or drugs. Emotional Addictions won't kill your body as fast, but it kills your soul/ spirit just as fast and is twice as hard to admit you have and even harder to correct/ turn away from. Sounds like many in here are in their own "vicious cycle". God bless the substance addicted people here and the non-substance addicted people in here. Very few of us have genuine balance in all aspects of our lives.
Keep the focus on myself and only share my experience strength and hope. What comes from the heart reaches the heart! Well said my friend. However, I have been charmed over and over and over again by those silver tongue devils in Alcoholics Anonymous. I know now that is on me and my desperate need for love and attention by the the saviours in the world.
The purpose of this video is to inspire critical thinking. You might want to try it some time.
@@catherinecooper8370 I am happy you satisfied your "emotional high" for now. Have a great weekend :)
Sounds like a lot of critical thinking went into the comment that was posted. I actually feel quite disappointed by your unloving and defensive reply Ms Cooper. I thought this was a channel where one could hear other educated view points. I won’t be back but I leave only one suggestion, “try coming from a loving heart “ after all its because you care about people that you were motivated to take on the responsibility of putting out new information. Nothing more dangerous for than self righteous anger!