Heat Pump Drying: Pros & Cons and Best Models
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- čas přidán 11. 07. 2024
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In this video, you'll learn about the differences between heat pump and your conventional dryer. They dry clothes very differently from each other. One is much more efficient and the other will cost you much more money each year.
In the end, you'll understand if heat pump dryers are a good decision or if you should stick to your traditional conventional dryer.
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Chapters
0:00 Intro
0:12 Guess the Most Important Dates for Heat Pumps
1:22 How Heat Pumps Work
2:17 Why Are Heat Pumps Important?
3:36 Pros
4:13 Cons
5:10 Reliability
8:04 Bosch vs Miele
8:30 LG WashTower
8:59 GE UltraFast
Great video. I’m an American living in Germany and I have an LG RT8DIH2 heat pump dryer with an auto cleaning condenser and I love it. You can either hook it to a drain line or use its built in water container that you have to empty when it gets full. I think heat pump dryer or at least water condenser dryers have been a thing here for awhile because it’s an apartment society.
We bought the Bosch 500 series heat pump dryer and washer to convert a walk-in pantry to a laundry room on the main level. These units are fantastic (both 220v, 24"wide), and the quality and care in manufacturing shows as soon as you unwrap it. It makes it easy to do little loads of kid laundry as you suggest. It's very efficient and convenient....not venting to the outside made a difference in our ability to install where we wanted to, and you quickly forget that it's a smaller size.
We just bought the LG ThinQ Heat pump dryer (with matching washer) and LOVE it! Takes a few seconds for everything to "feel" dry when you first take it out sometimes if it's humid out and it takes a little bit longer to dry, those are the ONLY drawbacks. The dryer uses about 0.6 Kw/h compared to my old one at 6Kw/h. Massive difference
DLHC1455W FYI. It's physically smaller then the washer but the capacity is basically the same
We live in a high-rise condo and have the lg wash tower heat pump dryer and absolutely love it. We had a compact unit in a closet, luckily it was 31 inches in depth and the wash tower easily fit. The other stackable full-size units would not have fit. The lg is at least 1 inch shallower. We did find that the sensor drying was setting the dryer to run for 90 minutes, if I check the clothes, they were dry in less than one hour, so now we use the time dry setting. The washer has jets and really gets the clothes clean. Not that it is important, but this is also a beautiful unit.
Thanks for all your great analysis. Very helpful in choosing a model
While I do like the efficiency and I am very much considering the GE combo unit for a mountain house we are building, the thing that attracts me most to a heat pump is that it eliminates the need install a large hole in the side of your house for a vent. These vents (like fireplace flues) are huge energy wasters and they are the absolute enemy of a tight building envelope. I do think the ongoing maintenance is an issue but GE seems to have thought that through pretty well. I love innovation.
In Europe, we have been dealing with these for some time. The problem with condenser and heat pump dryers is the moist air on the condensing coils attracts the lint. As you say keep the filters clean and replace them if any damage. Siemens Bosch has added an access kit to clean the front of the coil but other models require total disassembly and rebuilding to access the coils. Most units come with the same compressor and coils however the manufacturer's markup makes replacement uneconomical. We can source compressors from the source, however, the main problem is corrosion from the wet lint on the water condenser and the resulting refrigerant leak. A good test is to place an electric temperature probe in the drum air outlet, this should be 10 degrees warmer than the laundry. Faults are difficult to pinpoint without a full clean but if it's only one or 2 degrees that's the compressor working overtime heat, not refrigerant. Keep them lint-free.
Thanks for this information
I’ve got an AEG heat pump drier which I’m quite Happy with and like its performance and running costs.
Excellent review, thanks for sharing.
9:50 But there's no question that over time, as the technology becomes even more
refined, you're going to buy a heat pump, certainly within 5 to 10 years.
I like the 110v dryer and the combos sound very nice.
My main concern is durability and cost to purchase and cost to repair.
Hopefully as heat pump technology expands it will become so cheap cost will come down.
If you're doing multiple loads of laundry, combo units basically double the time it takes (as loads->infinity)
Europe guy here, have been using a samsung heatpump dryer for 9 years. Every 3 years the fan breaks, i order a new fan, install it and its good for another 3 or 4 years. Its 3 times as efficient. Quite a typical number for a heatpump. If you want something that lasts a lifetime, buy a Miele. Seriously.
Miele do not last a lifetime, I know I have just had to replace mine (after 13 years of regular use). They do last at least twice as long as other brands sometimes 3-4x. Of course they also cost more than other brands. Miele also have a fantastic fixed price repair service
I’m excited about heat pump dryers mainly for not exhausting air conditioned or heated indoor air, and relying on make up air that puts an unnecessary load on the HVAC.
Another benefit would be eliminating the need for potentially long exhaust ducting that requires maintenance (and contributes to a fire hazard if it isn't).
Thanks for this review of different heat pump dryers. There is a dearth of info on the really crucial technical stuf, e.g. like 110-120 vs 240, cubic capacity. You included a couple of gems in this regard.
Videos like this are slowly convincing my wife to try the UltraFast. Maybe by the time a more compact UltraFast comes around, she'll be ok with the tech. Thx again ^_^
The new LG WM6998HBA is out now. Great option that is a little smaller.
Great explanation. Thank you! I am in two minds about getting a new GE 2 in 1. Love the tech and space savings - especially not having to transfer clothes as well as no mold in the washer (due to the dryer evaporating the leftover moisture from the wash). Am worried about it being too new to ensure long term reliability. Would you recommend them?
Good question.....I think its a great technology. Only time will tell about reliability.
Both LG and Samsung have shown their version of large capacity, heat pump washer/dryer at this year's IFA her in Germany. Roborock presented the Zeo One, which is a 24" combo that uses Zeolite to dry the clothes.
LG will be available in 2024...no word on Samsung.
Just bought the LG heatpump washtower simpliy because it's compact, and it's ventless. My washer/Dryer space is small, I need to save every inch
I love all your videos.
Now compared to gas, how do the heat pumps come out?
Gas is a bit gentler than electric, but its still older and less efficient.
Regarding the 120 vs 220V thing. No heat pump dryers on the market actually require the full amperage that a standard 220V/40amp dryer circuit in the US provides. If you look at the actual wattage, you'll find that the 220V and 120V models are basically the same (~900-1000W at full load for either a 120V Miele or a 220V Bosch) which means they have about the same drying power. The only reason why they're even made in 220V for the US market is because that's what most houses are already fitted with.
Pros: Amazing electric savings! Cons: Expensive and it could take 6 years to just make back the savings of paying extra money to buy it! Needs lots of diligent cleaning of the fine lint and dust in the filters. 20% longer drying times. Advice: Only buy 220V heat pump dryers. Best is the Beko/Blomberg new 4.5 cubic ft ones.
I was looking for SUMMIT... never heard of the brand until today
Why? is it ADA? Summit is popular for odd sizes.
"Future of laundry". First store I check in Europe and 2/3rds of the dryers are of the heat pump kind. The other third are condenser models and there's 2 with an exit vent. Have had one for years now, and yeah it takes a bit longer, but I can put it anywhere I just have a socket, which in stone homes is a nice plus. Also no separate electricity supply needed.
Future here, reality there
@5:00 the ge combo taking twice as long throuws out the energy saving. Unless you do a kwh to kwh comparison and not time.
Heat pump dryers cost more to purchase but significantly less to operate. My concern will be longevity. A conventional dryer will operate for many years, and if it ever needs repair it's usually a quick fix. The heat pump dryers are much more complex. There's just a whole lot more that can break down. And when it does, the repairs are likely to be expensive, and it will require a skilled technician, if you can find one. My sister retired her 50-year-old Speed Queen dryer only because she bought a new washer and wanted the dryer to match.
Pros: don't forget all the air you are pulling outside with a vented dryer. The air that replaces this outbound air needs to be heated/cooled by your hvac system.
Not a concern for ventless dryers.
Had an AEG ( Electrolux ) heat pump dryer here in the UK for ( just working it out now lol ) just over 12 years and it gets used every day, everything goes in the dryer it’s only ever needed 1 belt change, suppressor replaced and door hinge, all done under extended warranty. Would never go back to a normal dryer
Cleaning the condenser fins is a PITA
I'm curious how the energy cost compares for a heat pump vs natural gas? I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and energy cost is on a tiered rating (use more, move into a higher tier and pay a higher rate). Tier2 electricity = 45 cents / kWh and Tier2 natural gas = $2.50 / therm. We have 8 people in our 5 bedroom home, down from 10 people when 2 left for college.
I too have a gas dryer and live in Ca.
Gas dryer is the best. If you have Gas.
With heat pump dryer no one ever seems to talk about humidity. I’m building a house now and told my HVAC guy I was going ventless heat pump and he HIGHLY recommended against it because of humidity. We talk about efficiency but what about in a small laundry room. Again my HVAC guy said the heat pump won’t work well in a small room and that I’d need a louvre door or some other means of ventilation. Any thoughts on these or a video where this is covered?
Have to be honest....Haven't heard that....But thats how I learn. Let me see
Any commentary on the full size whirlpool heat pump dryers?
We stopped selling them a few years ago...
Like most things Whirlpool does, they've shown that as a company, they cannot bring themselves to invest the R&D time, money and resources into new designs. Their union must be on high alert 24/7 for any kind of change, upgrade, improvement or refinement in their products.. All they can do is keep making their 63 year old lint-top dryers and 40 year old VMW washers, in 39 different trims and finishes to make it *look* like they're doing something. Sad, really.
I made huge mistake not knowing about venting in regular Dryer... And i live in small apartment and only have small ventilation in bathroom.
What about whirlpool?
The largest benefit in my mind is the lack of venting. In really cold climates that 4” hole in the aide of your house is costing you money ALL THE TIME!
My AEG heat pump dryer dries an 8kg load in 1hr 23mins dries bone dry, my Blomberg ( beko’s mid range ) spins at 1400rpm, hard to find a washing machine in the UK now that has a spin speed lower than 1000rpm most are 1200 or 1400rpm and sometimes 1600rpm
Gotta love 'MURICA, where Whirlpool has lobbied to have virtually *no* regulations or requirements for tumble dryers, and to have only *water* regulations on washers. This is because even brand new Whirlpool trash-loaders (top loaders) only spin about 600rpm on a good day, and requiring them to spin faster would mean changing what they've been making for 40+ years, which they absolutely will not do. By limiting regulations to water usage, they can just set the pressure switch lower and bam, requirements met! Of course, the cleaning performance is abysmal, but they're not worried about that, they only care that they can keep selling the same designs for another 40 years, to the same notoriously stubborn and resistant-to-change american consumers.
I hang my clothes to dry, and wash in a large bucket with hot water, powered by my hands, rinse in bucket refilled, re-rinse and wring out during shower. I am the greenest. Sometimes like today it is raining, I point my 20 inch box-fan at them. $17 dollars 4.5 years ago. Lasko LASTS!
Did you subtract the lint calls for the other manufacturers? Otherwise it seems like Miele would be given a false advantage in the numbers
Bosch is self cleaning......so it isnt an issue
The biggest problem with heat pumps is the impossibility to clean the evaporator from the residual lint dust that goes through the filter.
With a brush you may reach barely a cm deep between the evaporator fins, which may remove majority of the dust, but still big part gets "glued" to the fins further deep in the evaporator. And it gets "glued" there pretty well, as the thing is always wet when running. And clogged evaporator means the compressor has to work harder, wearing out itself and its oil way faster.
The classic condensation ones allow you to simply remove the condenser heat exchanger and wash it thoroughly, so no big deal. But to clean the heat pump one, you need to completely disassemble the machine and move the refrigeration parts around in order to clean it. You need to be extremely careful, as the things are quite heavy and fragile, so very "inviting" to cause some crack and refrigerant leak, which means the machine becomes scrap.
So although it may be more reliable, the useful lifetime is very questionable. Classic condenser type may work for 20 years easily, with couple of heater and maybe tumble motor and belt swaps, for the heat pump I would doubt it would be able to exceed the normal 1000 cycles the good quality brands use to be designed for. Plus given the present development on refrigerant use regulations, I doubt it would be even possible to fix the present systems in the future, as the used refrigerant would be just banned.
On the other hand given the energy cost, even if it would be a 5..10 year throw-away thing, it still saves quite some money (at least speaking about present European pricing of "classic" vs "heat pump" models; I have noticed in the US the heat pump models are for some reason insanely expensive).
You are right...However, I think the UltraFast addressed the lint problem directly, but time will tell
I'm in California, .37 per KWH
$1.5 per load to dry...Maybe more with an older dryer
But how does the heat pump operating COST compare to a GAS dryer?
Good question.....it would depend on what you pay for gas
I converted by delivered gas cost from ccc/therms to kWh, I pay $0.038/kWh for gas. No heat pump is going to compete with that price. At the 3.4 kWh per load stated in the video it would cost $0.13 per load on gas
@@mattkaramccarthy677 This is why I still have natural gas event with solar panels. Most solar systems only run your standard plugs. Even with back up battery. Large appliances that need 220volts you are drawing from the grid. I only dry in winter and our winters are damp. This will add time.
California electricity rates are more like 50c a kw
As you say it’s not the repairs it’s finding someone who knows how to repair the machine.
Definitely...Heat pumps are reliable, but what happens when they dont...then again, same could be said for most appliances
Fun fact. Electricity never goes down, just UP. BEV charging rates, esp. at Tesla are a rip-off, based on time of day, and keep going higher.
.57 USD peak times (when you need it most) at TESLA chargers. Gasoline is now cheaper to use.
Good on paper but nobody has figured out how to prevent the heat exchangers inside from caking with lint even with religious cleaning of both filters.
The whirlpool one i was looking at, every review stated that it stopped drying after about two years. You have to take the entire machine apart to clean them, if you arent handy or value your time the savings are negated by having to pay somebody to clean it out.
Whirlpool was awful....These are better, but lint is an issue
Lets talk about when you do a load of towels, to wash and dry your looking at a couple of hours of run time . And thats no joke.
This is taking something that's dead simple and cheap and easy to repair and making it the opposite. Sometimes simple really is best.
Maybe...but heat pumps are not new. The compacts are reliable, so we will see.
Reverse of an air conditioner
Who does a load of laundry every day for 2 people. Its me and my daughter, shes 20. I have plenty of clothes and only do a load once a week, if that. I mean you usually have one outfit you wear for the day, why would i wash it immediately, instead of waiting for more items.
Lets see, I work out daily and sweat, she is 7 and swims, so bathing suits, towels, etc, so yeah its a bout a load a day, roughly
As always, North America gets them last, and has the fewest of them. Places like Europe, Australia, etc, you'll see people use them all over, and here in North America, it's slim pickings. Something about people being stubborn and set in their ways or something.
Same deal with stove stops. People are so slow to clue in that induction is so much better than gas or regular electric. People would have to see it over and over before finally getting it.
ps. I"m shocked at your electric cost! In Canada I'm paying 15 cents and that's Canadian cents. And that is by looking at the actual bill so that includes all the markup fees like transmission, and other fees. So that's like 11 cents US I think.
I was shocked myself
@@YaleAppliance1I suppose solar panel are hugely attractive there.
I've noticed that about American consumers... for such a young country that was founded by a bunch of outcasts, you'd think we would be culturally more open to change and progress, but we are absolutely not. The worst is when you see Americans who claim heat pump dryers, front load washers, condensation dry dishwashers, heck all manner of products and appliances... are "too unproven" and "not worth the trouble", while ignoring the cost that running those things incurs. It's almost like Americans get some weird sense of "freedom" by being wasteful of resources.
It's not about "being stubborn" or being "set in their ways". A lot of people in NA can afford to put natural gas-powered dryers into their homes, and natural gas dryers consume less electricity (since none of it is being spent on heat pump units), with natural gas being very inexpensive since US can produce enough of it to satisfy all of the domestic demand as well as some of the foreign demands. Same goes for cooktops and stoves. It's all about costs. And yes, I also did all calculations for our current house, it's still cheaper to use natural gas for everything (including heating, cooking food or drying clothes) than to use any kind of non-"natural gas" appliances.
One load per day, that’s excessive isn’t it?
Not for families
@@YaleAppliance1 fair enough
Calif, IS NOT 19.9 it is .31 USD here and like .43 USD or more in San Diego. More misinformation, like when US GOVT. uses 15 cents!
Did I say that? California is the highest. Mass Is 27 cents
I tried heat pump. 4 hours to dry? sorry, not anymore.
which one?
I have Miele ventless heat pump dryer. Dry in 30 to 40 minutes for normal load and 1+20 for flannel sheets.
The heat exchanger should be outside otherwise it is taking the heat out of the house. That's ok in summer, but not in winter.
Heat pumps recycle heat...they dont draw it out
My hands, arms, whole body can agitate clothes better than any spinning electric contraption.
The future.. typical coming from the United States. For Europe these have been on the market since 2001, thats 22 years ago. And now, its the future of the world :P
There were invented in 1856.....so we are both slow adopters
Heat pump no thanks