S3E2 Fuel and aerodynamic mods ....We do some experiments to try and get the Saturn to go faster.
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- čas přidán 14. 01. 2023
- Season 3 Episode 2. Jimbo changes the aerodynamic profile of the Saturn coupe in an attempt to go faster. He also installs an exhaust gas temperature gauge and adjusts the injector pump fuel limit. How fast with the Saturn go... tune in and check it out!
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the fact the coolant isn't very warm on this engine stock is not necessarily a problem, since kubota likely designed it to operate under load as a stationary engine for very long periods of time, while being as thermodynamically efficient as possible, hence the cold exhaust manifold. by blocking off almost all the airflow to the engine bay with the airomods, the engine is likely now heat-soaking under heavy load, leading to your perceived power loss. additionally, without an oil cooler, the higher than stock RPM is probably getting the oil nice and toasty-you should probably be monitoring the temperature of that too.
Depends how you look at it - diesels are more economical when taking in slightly warmer air (although it will make more power with a cold feed). And it will be less efficient if it never reaches a suitable operating temperature due to 50mph air flow through the engine bay which it's not designed for.
Diesels don't like running too cold. If they're too far below operating temperature, they can't fully combust the fuel. If they're too hot, the intake air is less dense, and they lose power that way.
The mass air density is most likely a greater issue then the engine blocks thermal efficiency
This is funny, I have just said the same about over heating the oil.
you're absolutely right. the engine is from a trailer reefer unit, and its designed to run at a certain steady RPM constantly.
Alright, I'll pitch in now.
I own an 82 Isuzu I-Mark Diesel. .50 drag coefficient.
From the factory, it is equipped with a 51 horsepower, 72 lb-ft 1.8L engine.
On the tire size, from the factory, it was equipped with 155/70R13s. Those are difficult to come by where I am, so I run 175s.
I also run my tires at 40 PSI. I've been able to pull 62 MPG out of it.
0-60 takes 20 seconds. Fastest I've ever had that car on a test track was 94 MPH. Not kidding. Anyway, just figured I'd toss you that information to give you a base for what was commercially available.
I lovingly refer to it as the Angry Singer Sewing Machine. You can see it on my channel.
It's the boot spoiler! Removing that cost you 3 seconds! :-) Everyone know's they make you go faster! I reckon adding a couple of stripes will knock another couple of seconds off!
Dang it, I forgot to paint racing strips on the car.... Thanks for the tip!
That and a loud stereo!
They do aid in aero. Well according to most CZcams videos on the subject anyway. Something about separating the boundary layer.
In all reality, the only thing left is to reduce the rear surface area, and a good strong edge to detach the laminar flow. Technically the spoiler was acting as the edge
Slap stickers add 5 hp
Aero engineer by education here, a couple of tips to consider:
1. The spoiler does actually help with aerodynamics. You probably don't need to put the big spoiler back on, but you can get the little plastic stick on spoilers, or even just cardboard/plastic board plus tape to help the air at the back to separate from the trunk. You just want the air to ramp up a little bit. If the air can "jump off" the spoiler ramp a bit, then it can rejoin the airflow easier and reduce drag.
2. Another cheap thing you can do is try adding vortex generators to the back of the roof, to help the airflow stick to the back window as it flows down. Something like you see on Subaru WRX's. This will also help guide the air into the spoiler.
If you want to crank the hillbilly aerodynamics up to eleven, you can add a full undertray and boat tail. The channel "think flight" has a small series about this for a better visual of what I mean.
Agree with you on all points. Vortex generators are however more complex than just sticking them on, they may just as well worsen aerodynamics just as much as they improve them if you don't calculate it correctly, so I'd personally skip them.
@@swecreations true, if you don't know what you're doing. It's probably something that's best done here by trial and error. Try with, try without, see what works best. I figured for how simple they are, and by copying other cars, it can probably get close enough
Thanks! We are getting some feedback on the rear spoiler and folks are saying something should be there in order to reduce drag. We will try a few options and see what works.
And funny enough, the CZcams channel called SuperfastMatt just uploaded a video about aerodynamic drag. He has a 1950 Jaguar that's been converted to electric (it's actually more aerodynamic driving it backwards that forwards), he scans the car and inputs the scan into a program that models the aerodynamics, and brings up the rear design of modern cars (that spoiler like lip on the trunk lid) that helps reduce the drag.
@@madmax2069 I just posted saying basically the same thing. I would imagine a lot of us here share similar CZcams habits.
This sort of reminds when I was 9 or 10 years old , riding a Kubota on a rice/padi field in my village.... Never in a watever lifetime a YT content gonna kicked my memory into reverse 😁
If you want to gain 30% more power do the LPG (propane-butane) injection to the air intake. If you never heard of this, search for LPG-Diesel. Actually I have this system mounted in my 2.5 Audi A6 C5 and it is working great. Before I installed proper system, I was experimenting by just putting hose from camp gas tank into air intake,.You can try this for beginning :) (this is short term solution, because without heating system for gas, nozzle will froze after few minutes).
"putting the hose from camp gas tank into the air intake" otherwise known as red neck nitro XD
That's like discount Nitrous.
I don't think he can afford a new engine
LP fumigation tends to work far better with aspirated (turbo) diesels compared naturally aspirated. Not sure why though. Cost ratio, space to safely carry the LP is an issue though. Seem to recall most report that it tends to work best to use it mostly for hard work events like acceleration and long upgrades. Since you use it..... has this been your experience?
@@coachgeo it works better in conjunction with a turbo because lpg displaces air, but with a turbo that effect is negligible
"It's not pretty, but it's, well, it's not pretty"
Brilliant 👏 👏 👏
Possibly fuel supply shortage?
A turbo should lower EGT with the help of an intercooler.
Looks good so far Jimbo keep it going 🙂
Agree with fuel supply issue.
Looking forward to the turbo test! In theory, you’ll be wide open throttle less if you boost it, so your EGT’s shouldn’t be too insane. I’d get a gauge for oil temps just in case, and run an oil cooler with a thermostat.
How about a ram air intake for more high end speed before you install the turbo?
@@scox7760 I don’t think they’re going fast enough for a ram air intake to be doing much that’s effective. I think it makes 1psi per 100 MPH in clean air if it’s absolutely optimized. If they’re going 65 now, it might make .6psi if it was perfectly setup, which on a ~20hp engine might make .85HP more, and I doubt that would make much difference. A decent 7psi turbo setup would get it to make about 30HP, a bigger difference.
Surely diesels are always WOT, it’s only fueling that alters? That’s why their VE is good
@@garyhargreaves5630 that’s true, but they still do better with forced induction.
Oil cooler for sure
Try putting the spoiler back on. Strange as it sounds it might actually cut drag in your case. IF The airflow stays attached going over the rear of the car that can increase the air pressure acting on the rear window which has the effect of pushing you forward slightly or at least pulling you backward less intensely. If you have a pitot tube and/or a magnahelic gauge laying around that you can measure air pressures you can do an a/b test on that or if not you could do tuft testing with some yarn to at least observe the airflow to see if you have a separation bubble
A low profile spoiler made from coroplast or some other flat material might be best
There is a diagram of this car on the Ecomodder forums, thread #40628.
The back of the car should taper like the Insight. The top of the spoiler is about 4" too low.
@@discontinuuity it's easy to go too far though and move backwards Without instrumentation you're just guessing. The slight upturn or small deck-lid spoiler to increase pressure on the window and counterintuitively, reduce drag, is the reason a lot of OEs have been doing it. Think the new Hyundai sonata, and every Tesla, among dozens of others.
Yeah see that spoiler is not probably efficient at breaking air flow from the back of the car. The back of the car is shaped such that you need a very clean and sudden break. Although it's probably better than no spoiler. You probably are actually creating a vacuum behind the car instead of what you want which is a vortex/low pressure bubble. It would be really good to just model the Saturn and run it through some cheap CFD.
The absolutely most efficient thing is obviously to never break air flow but that's just not possible with the shape of the car. You would need a long sloping tail
Absolutely this. I used to own one of these cars and when I painted it I shaved all the badges and removed the spoiler to get a cleaner look, which actually decreased my fuel mileage slightly. That little lip that you see on the back of the trunk lid on newer sedans fulfills the same purpose. This is why a pickup truck with a bed cover on it will get worse mpg too, because the tailgate acts as a spoiler, which counterintuitively decreases drag. A lot of research went into the aero on these S-series Saturns. They were some of the most slippery cars available at the time with a drag coefficient of between 0.29-0.32 depending on the model and year. I would do any aero mods one at a time because these cars were so good you may make it worse. Another thing is the little plastic pieces that go in the front to direct air to the radiator, along with the ones in the wheel wells. I removed those at one point too thinking lightening up the car would improve mpg and performance, but that also hurt mpg so I put them back on.
Fender skirts? Increased tire pressure? Air scoop enclosed directly to intake? Front campaign sign mod increases downforce, try moving top forward and bottom rearward, so it looks like an arrow shape from the side (reduces downforce, reduces drag)? Lower oil viscosity,? Water injection? Continued success! Thanks for the video!
I'm afraid you might have blocked off air intake into engine, so it's possible that after some time of max throttle engine is starved of (cold) air, so maybe installing a cold air intake would work out, and since you have that area on bumper to cut, you don't have to ruin bonnet. Should slightly improve performance on high speed doubling as an inertia supercharger (air resistance in front push more air into engine)
Cheers, that's a good project and video, Thanks!
I'd bet the spoiler did more for aero than you may think. I know all late model cars and trucks have a hangover lip off the truck or tailgate to smooth Eddy currents at the rear of the vehicle. That spoiler might have done just that.
Eddy current ?
Pff ha ha ha , what ?
@@Whateverpoopiepants For sure at 55 MPH!
@@Whateverpoopiepants You got me. Eddy current wasn't the right term. But you know what I'm getting at obviously. We'll just call it turbulence. I feel for you serious CZcamsrs. Dealing with trolls would be exhausting.
What you're thinking of is more or less the air 'sticking' to the sloping rear window for a bit before detaching. The trick is that ideally you'd have a long tapering tail like a bird. This is obviously impractical, but it turns out that if you end the car's shape abruptly the air detatches cleanly from the body and flows kind of like that long tail is there, reducing drag.
@@nerd1000ify There is a diagram of this car on the Ecomodder forums, thread #40628.
The back of the car should taper like the Insight. The top of the spoiler is about 4" too low.
I wonder what effect covering the rear wheel wells like with the insight would have
plus entire underbelly
The front wheels can be partially covered too.
@@Oldsmobile69 hmmm you could put a bubble to cover entire thing, but hard to do from cardboard
Slower then a fiat 126 26hp with a 0-60mph in 47 sec😊
@@Aeros-tech because it's monster. In Poland we even towed with this thing.
Robot Cantina: Posts new D722 video
Me: Searching Craigslist/Marketplace for a junker to do the same.....
The transfer pump you are using is all the evidence you need of air bubbles in the fuel. Magnetic piston fuel pumps of that type are notorious for causing cavitation bubbles in fuel lines, especially with oil fuels like diesel. It’s a well known phenomenon in the self-installed diesel air heater community. Try mounting your pump on about a 25-45 degree angle with the outlet side up and the inlet side down. This is the first piece of advice given to anyone dealing with cavitation bubbles in a heater. I sincerely hope this helps. Thanks for reading my comment and thanks for all the great content. I have been watching since the insight first got a predator.
Hey Jimbo, That was a fun video. You can fit a pressure guage to your fuel supply point at the pump, make sure you're not dropping fuel pressure at wide open throttle.
That engine should be good for 1 Bar boost, it has a tough sub assembly. You can also safely go to 650 on the egt, but you may want to either intercool the boost or add water/meth injection...keep going !
Thanks! We have a new higher flow electric diesel fuel pump on its way. The pump we are currently using is rated for diesel but is very suspect... especially since it only cost $10.00. The new pump set us back a whole $23.99. If that dosnt help, we will put a pressure sensor on the line and see what is going on.
@@robotcantina8957 Do you have a restriction on the fuel return line? I'm not sure if these injection pumps have one built in, but is necessary on diesel engines. My only experience with these engines is on truck-mounted reefer units, and typically they're equipped with a fairly dinky transfer pump.
Very Nice! Fun times had by all!
Seeing the engineering on all other videos I have no doubt you could add oil squirters to this engine. Tap into oil galley and just add them to stand alone rail inside block under rotating assembly. Honestly that would be simple compared to the other wizardry you have already done.
Can confirm a 26hp Kubota tractor engine has cool exhaust at idle, cooler yet in winter.
You need one of those little English muffin sized turbos for that engine now
You should push the speed in 4th speed higher because it seems that the gearing makes the 5th very "long" for economy. When switching from 4th to 5th you go down to 2400rpm!
I think gearing down from the smaller tires pushes that shift point from 4th to 5th to around 50mph from what the tach said on his dash. it dropped the top speed in 4th but made the gearing such that he can use 5th now to get a higher top speed. I guess the alternative is to put the stock tires back on and see if the aero will allow a higher top speed in 4th and allows 5th to be used without lugging the engine down and slowing it down
@@kasuraga There's not much that can be done for the "gap" between 4 and 5. Maybe a solution would be to optimize for top speed in 4th with tire size and keep 5 for economy. But you only have 4 gears to accelerate. Alternatively you use even smaller tires and get higher rpm in 5th.
@@cmuller1441 Yeah that's what I was thinking too. But also, once it's turbo, it might be better to keep the gearing with the stock tires since the added power should help 4th pull along better, then 5th can be used for final acceleration to top speed and cruising.
@@kasuraga I agree. Optimizing it when you know that you'll have a different engine later is just a waste of time.
Thank you for zooming in and showing the heater core is plumbed to the bypass tube. Many thanks!
@Robotcantina Telegrams reached their peak popularity in the 1920s and 1930s when it was cheaper to send a telegram than to place a long distance telephone call. People would save money by using the word "stop" instead of periods to end sentences because punctuation was extra while the four character word was free.
Telegrams were used to announce the first flight in 1903 and the start of World War I. During World War II, the sight of a Western Union courier was feared because the War Department, the precursor to the Department of Defense, used the company to notify families of the death of their loved ones serving in the military, Chayet said.
With long distance rates dropping and different technologies for communicating evolving - including the internet - Western Union phased out couriers in the late 1960s and early 1970s. By the way what kind of prize are you talkin here?
@@ocdman202 The Model T was introduced to the world in 1908. Henry Ford wanted the Model T to be affordable, simple to operate, and durable. The vehicle was one of the first mass production vehicles, allowing Ford to achieve his aim of manufacturing the universal car. Telegrams went the way of the Model T..
The lights of the original Model T were not electric. The common lamps used on horse drawn vehicles were the lamps used on the Model T, this meant it used acetylene carbide headlights and oil side lamps. Electric lighting and electric starting became available for the Model T late in production during the 1920’s.
2:00 That is 100% correct. It's a thing amongst older Jeep guys to take off the passenger mirror, because it's almost totally blocked by the windshield anyways
I just want to say thank you for converting those numbers for us, all metric folks out there. Keep up the good work!
Very interesting stuff!!! Keep it coming!!
I'm so glad you write the metric values! It is warming up my heart!
okay so long term veiwer here, you got me into electrical back in the day, always been into cars and now i think this is the best channel on yt.
Thanks for another interesting episode! That little Kubota is gonna go places :-) Wondering what new thrills and chills (or pitfalls) the turbo is going to bring. We'll see next Sunday :-)
I bet removing the rear seat and front passengers' seat would be help for weight reduction. The best car to put the little diesel in would have been a late 1980's GEO Metro, they only weight 1650 pounds. But we use what we have for experiments. I like how you explain things as you go, it helps us who don't understand everything, understand. Thanks from Michigan.
Ive been looking at small diesel engines for my sand rail so i can use it with minimal to no electronics and if its under 700cc in my state, i can register the sand rail for the streets which is my primary goal for the buggy.
Or the metro older brother the chevy sprint 1470lbs but people want like $3,000 plus for them.
Hi Jimbo, greetings from the UK and loving this project.
You took the wing off and made it slower!😄
Come on turbo, we added a oil cooler with our mod on our old cummins, that was a good move. Might want to watch that oil temp. Have a wonderful week. God Bless
To verify if the aero-mods are improvements or not, you could use cotton/textile strings and a camera to see flow separation, turbolence, etc.
A Pitot tube or Magnehelic gauge are a bit more expensive but obviously more accurate. Would be cool to see the data of lift and drag before and after mods
Magnahelic, isn't that the ones that meausre pressure differential? That could be cool
@@goosenotmaverick1156 Yes, it is. Julian Edgar has some great simple videos explaining it if you do not want to spend hours on textbooks, wiki and such.
tufts are great, they tell you a lot and they're just yarn and tape and whatever camera you already have
I commend the use of A-B-A testing. As much as I love the aero testing, he needs to figure out the power reduction, which is a confounding variable.
LOL a pitot coming off the front would be hilarious
Hey, I had a diesel swapped SL2 a few years ago. Aero mods on mine were blocking the front ducting with plastic removing the side view mirrors and having mirrors mounted inside the doors that could see outside. They were basically a convex mirror. Worked well.
And on the sedan at least the front lights were inset on the body. The lights were mounted on stand offs to ouch them out to be more level with the hood and front bumper. And finally the wheel covers were like the flat ones you see people running at bonneville. Car got about 90-100mpg when driven nicely. And even driven hard it was capable of 50-60mpg.
Some of these have already been said by others, but:
Power loss might be due to warmer intake air temps from closing off the grille. (Also, worse aero can notably hurt near-top-speed acceleration.) Maybe could run a hose from the rectangle hole in the airdam to the engine intake?
Removing that spoiler might make aero worse (that type of spoiler is probably catching airflow coming off the roof and helping it separate from the car cleanly).
Blocking unnecessary air from going into the engine bay with that airdam is good, but a sharp 90-degree transition at the bottom of that airdam is not good for aero. An easy way to make that a nice smooth curve is to get a length of foam pipe insulation two or three inches in diameter; slice it in half lengthwise so it's a semicircle in shape, then glue it round side out to the airdam so the bottom edge of it lines up with the bottom edge of the airdam. So that from the side (with the car aiming to the right), a cross section would look like a lowercase b.
Try adding water meth when you go about installing the turbo. It will help drop charge temperatures and will also add more fuel into the system. Also that aero is probably a bad idea since you’re going to want that area and air flow for a intercooler. Like another viewer commented rig up a cool air intake, your power loss is most likely due to the engine breathing hot air. It’s not about how much boost you can cram into an engine but how much air density you can feed it.
Yup that the best way and you pick up power
For sure. And when he adds an intercooler, he can find a used intercooler off eBay for next to nothing. Something from a civic or a fiat 500 would be plenty small enough.
Mmm yes feed it some meth.
Either it will have limitless power, or it will get face tattoos and a prison sentence.
skinnier wheels will indeed have less rolling resistance and provide less air resistance. You can also max out the pressures to whatever the sidewall allows. You can also try to cover the rear wheel wells.
he could also lower it, considering it does actually benefit aerodynamics slightly
He could also convert the wipers to 1 wiper that Parks in the straight up and down position in the middle of the screen. It's an old DTM racecar trick.
Probably not a good idea to max the pressure in the winter because once it heats up they're over pressure.
So recreate the Honda?
@@vasilis23456 well the max pressure is generally ~50psi and burst pressure is well over 200 in most cases. There's loads of safety margin on them, not like any tire manufacturer wants to expose themselves to undue liability.
It nice to see your channel growing so fast. these one of a kind engine swaps are so much fun to watch and you present it so well.
16:00 When you said "eventually when we add a turbo" I giggled like a little girl from excitement! This is awesome!!
Such a fun project to watch! We can't see what the exhaust is doing, but if you're giving it more fuel then it may also not be buring it completely. Maybe consider adding a propane injection when you get the turbo on? Thanks for sharing!
Actually those engines the smoke clears after rpm goes up cause their made without forced air induction and even adding a turbo with it stock no fuel screw would really help
a small turbo with a few pounds of boost would solve every problem with speed, and make it so the car doesnt need to have crazy aero mods. Plus, turbos for diesels increase overall efficiency and can easily lead to more MPGs
Maybe a k03 turbo from an older audi / volkswagen turbo engine would do well... The inducer size on those is like 30mm so not too big for the baby sized engine
The exhaust on my Cub Cadet with a D600 Kubota gets very hot. It has a stamped metal safety guard. Under heavy load it blows black smoke, 54" snow blade, chains and tractor tires. I use it to plow my drive way over on Fox road by MIchigan ave near your old stomping grounds. In cold weather the tractor runs very cool, the only time I see the temp gauge move is during summer. There were Cub Cadets that came with those diesels. The garden tractor pullers use a turbo from a European smart car, its 3 cylinder, and has the turbo built in to the manifold, you just need an adapter plate. The Military also had d722T on their generators.
I did an experiment on a VW Polo 1.4 TDi a few years back. Reduced weight by as much as possible, aerodynamic mods such as narrow tyres, closing off un-necessary ducts and removing anything that caused excessive drag. Had the engine slightly modified with a custom remap, a more free flowing exhaust. Can't remember exact figures but it achieved slightly over 100mpg and the performance was incredible
it’s good to see another 18v makita impact driver up to no good on cars, at least i’m not the only one
good to see you’re doing better jimbo!! keep up the good work. highlight of my weekends
Highway tires with the least rolling resistance, smaller and lighter weight wheels, +15% recommended tire pressure.
(Pre turbo) Intake piping to ram air intake, change intake manifold to 3 independent, long, and thinner? tubes. Possibly angle them greatly from the valves to increase turbulence pre-ignition.
Someone mentioned lower oil viscosity but I imagine that will need a change of bearing clearance if you intend to change boost. You could get stiffer valve springs and get an increased RPM.
Love your videos
Simply fascinating! Such high-quality graphics and explanations!
I'm impressed with those numbers. Good as a VW TDI or little Saab TDI. Obviously, the recirculation of the exhaust gas will balance the increased KW Joules nicely. ✌️♥️👍👍
Maybe the drag at the rear should be red yarn tested with three or four 1 meter lengths across the trunk lid. In practice the yarn will likely not fly straight away but instead suck back into the low pressure drag ares created by removing the vortices extending wing. Good for a guy riding your tail on motorcycle but not for acceleration and fuel savings.
You should have left the dirt, it added a low pressure zone causing the air to help push the car forward! Lol I can't wait to see more.
The majority of small diesel equipment engines that are turbocharged are running low boost to help with widening the torque bulge and keep revs consistent when the load varies. Typically, manifold pressure is 4-6 psi so an intercooler is not really needed, nor are piston oil sprayers.....however, the majority of turbo Kubota's do utilize a water/oil cooler under the oil filter. An air/oil cooler would probably be easier to fabricate and would greatly help with engine/turbo longevity, especially when holding full throttle for long periods in top gear.
This feels like if the Mythbusters narrator had an episode all to himself lol
The engine is likely heat soaking which would explain the power loss. If you put a hole in the aero mod for the intake air you will get way better power and lower egts. This bit will be very important for turbo charging as without the piston oilers and perhaps a oil cooler, you are going to want the air going in as cold as possible. Remember colder air going in give better power and fuel economy
He may benefit from running a cold air intake pipe out to the front of the car. It'd get the air to the densest area and away from any heat.
@@americansmark plus if the flow of the intake is smooth he will basically gain some free horsepower above 30 mph.
Cold air does not improve fuel economy, it's the exact opposite. Google what a warm air intake is for example. Cold air slightly improves power and slightly decreased fuel economy.
@@swecreations he needs more top end power, so that is what he needs to do.
@@swecreations it absolutely does because this engine is mechanical and burns the same amount of fuel no matter what. So when you give the engine more power potential, the less you are heavy on the throttle for acceleration and the faster you can get back to cruising.
Looking forward to the turbo test. Diesels LOVE boost
Yup, turbo made diesel mainstream
Once again you made me chuckle !
Love your sence of humor !
Love those graphics too !
That was awesome to see it accelerate so well on the doughnut tires and gain a few mph👍
I took the spoiler off of mine because I liked the clean look without it better but it actually hurt my gas mileage a bit. More modern cars will have a little lip on the back of the trunk lid that would take the place of this spoiler for you. Manufacturers claim 1-3% increase in fuel efficiency from that, so it has to reduce drag significantly.
Also, yes on the cool exhaust. All diesels will run cool at idle, which is why it's not a good idea to try to warm up a diesel engine by idling it. You need to put it under load to heat it up. I'm not sure what the physics are that cause this phenomenon, but I learned this when I bought a medium truck with a 7.3l IDI International diesel. It was the same way. At idle after a cold start I could put my bare hands right on the exhaust even after 10 minutes of running.
Dope ass channel keep her coming!
Every time a video is posted I can’t wait to click and watch… of all the content this is the channel I get the most excited for
It's good to see you've recovered enough to get back on the road! I hope your family has recovered from The Thing That Must Not Be Named.
Thanks Jimbo! Once again you made my weekend better! I brag on your channel all the time and the shenanigans you get in to, love it!
Rock on!
Needs a air dog 165gpm lift pump,125hp injectors and a 63mm turbo and it will be golden 🤣
Fun stuff as always. I'm excited for the turbo!
This is one of the best shows on the entire CZcamss.
Love your videos!
Excellent progress Jimbo! Do I hear a bad wheel bearing? That is additional mechanical drag if so.
Does the Saturn trans use atf or gear oil? If the latter, then a swap to GM Synchromesh oil will reduce drag further.
Look forward to the turbo installation!
Im hearing the wheel bearing as well..
I love love LOVE this project and I can’t wait to see future videos 😀
The extra air from boost will help cool the exhaust some up to a point as it will lean the mixture back out to normal. The mixture now is rich , and should be running cooler but its diesel and I don't know enough about the fuel system. Normal exhaust operating ranges can vary and be quite high on some engines. This is at full load in 5th right now . Its laboring. Boost will make a huge difference. 6 to 10 lbs. Would be a great improvement
man this channel is so charming. Just curious, are you getting weird harmonics with that engine or smaller wheels/tires? i hear some odd noise on your acceleration test.
Sounds like the space saver spares making a ton of road noise.
Yes, there is a noise... the right side wheel bearing is failing. Good ears!
@@robotcantina8957 I try to regard books as if they were like fish, “catch and release.” Once I’ve read a book, unless it is exceptionally special, I donate it to put it back out in the world for others to enjoy.
Id recommend advancing the pump timing to make some power
I also thought about that, but for finding the best setting, you would need a dynamometer. I don´t know what diesel he uses, but the engine is probably already tuned really advanced for low grade diesel, so retarding might do the trick.
yeah, i would just watch because its not a dynamic adjustment, so setting it 15 degrees early may hurt the low end a lot and make it really smokey
@@ramentaryramblings actually it would be interesting to add Arduino with stepper or servo to adjust it on the fly
@@piotrcurious1131 could be pretty hard. To adjust injection timing you need to rotate the fuel pump in relation to the engine.
There is plenty of force and any backlash would be bad
@@ReubenHorner As injector follows the cam, and there is adjustment screw allowing offsetting, one can merely install servo to change the offset following the cam angle. That means servo must do it fast, and ofc there will be wear&lubrication challenges, but for one-off experiment this can work and there are servos fast enough to do it without much sweat.
More fuel equals more heat only to the point that it will flow air. Controlling combustion temps is an art unto itself. Controlling the oil temperature is very important since that also helps control piston temps. The affect of piston oilers is not as great as most people think because oil is naturally being slung up against the bottom of the pistons anyway. Control intake air temp and oil temp and water temp and you find it much easier to control combustion temps. Increase the fuel until you need water injection to control combustion temps. Aluminum melts at 1000-1200 degrees if I remember correctly BUT just because your egt hits 1000 does not mean that's how hot your piston is. The constant cooling of the pistons from the skirts and the oil on the bottom of the piston keeps it much cooler. Keep that oil temp below 190F and it will work wonders to keep your piston the proper size.
On the bonus side the water injection gives a bit of a power boost you can feel in the seat of your pants.
My experience is via a GM 6.5 turbo diesel marine build in an old van with no intercooler. Just a "devil's own" water injection kit. Extra large oil cooler with auxiliary oil cooler. I've hit 1100 degrees with it climbing some mountain passes. I'm a chicken so I don't push it past that much. I've heard of guys pushing higher though.
A fire breathing monster and a speed demon if I ever saw one ! 🤣
Great job, RC Team !
I so much prefer these type of videos than the big dollar budget with the sponsors and unattainable results by the humble home mechanic.
I'm watching this as a wolf down some brunch. Your videos make it all better. 👌😃👍
stop messing around and bolt on the turbo, I have this same engine and want to know what its capable of, lol. todays video answered a lot of questions I've had about the fuel enrichment screw, thanks.
The spoiler helps with drag. It elevates the trunk and helps the flow to reattach. If you want to reduce drag further, look into making sharp separation edges on it and on the bumper.
There is a diagram of this car on the Ecomodder forums, thread #40628.
The back of the car should taper like the Insight. The top of the spoiler is about 4" too low.
@@drippingwax even if it's too low, it will help. And there's nothing that says you can't modify it. Wool tufts will tell pretty much everything he needs to know.
@@drippingwax lol what diagram? That template? 🤣🤣🤣
@@heitorbernardes7977 Filling the wake is supposed to help.
@@drippingwax you don't use a template for this. You either test or use CFD to get an idea of how the wake is.
12:10 Cold exhaust at idle. This is typical for a diesel. The excess air running through the cylinders keeps the engine cool. This is why idling a diesel for long periods is a bad thing as it leads to " Wet Stacking" / lots of carbon. Some gas engines during a cooling system failure shut down alternating injectors to limp home the car.
A little info on diesel egts, as you said there is no throttle for air so at low power times they'll run extremely lean which keeps the exhaust cool because there isn't enough energy in the fuel to make excessive heat, same reason for high idle switches for cold warm up.
With adding a turbo if you can keep it at that point of being lean enough to keep cool it should be very efficient.
Many people on the internet will argue this but if you add enough fuel you can keep the egts down as well, and get more power than lean cool.
Another option would be injecting straight methanol under boost, I would expect impressive results from that.
I would expect that lil engine to hold up to a decent amount of boost if you keep the egts down, don't turn up the timing, and keep the charge temp cool.
You don't need a wind tunnel, I'm sure a CFD company or a CFD engineer would be happy to help you model the car and run the *simulations*
Can't wait for a turbo
on mechanical pumps the optimal pump setting is a little smoke at low rpm and clean burn near top, put a cold air intake because without the engine bay airflow the under hood temps might get really high and especially diesels need really cold air for best performance, if you run out of fuelpump you can raise the inlet pressure to the pump in mercedes mechanical pumps you can raise it from stock 1 bar to 2 bar without problems dont know how much you can raise it on that and if you still dont have enough fuel you can make a water/meth injection system and get a little bit more, pump timing makes a lot of difference especially at higher rpm, 800c egt temps shouldnt be a problem, i havent had any problems on my mercedes om603 without piston oil squirters, thank you for the great videos cant wait for the next one!😄
I'm a Kubota mechanic and I have found with those small 3 cylinders that if they are starved for fuel they will still run but have power losses so I would suggest putting a larger fuel filter for the engine think a fuel filter can can run a V8 car for size because at wide open throttle they do burn a lot more fuel than a gasoline engine.
This would be interesting to run on the salt flats, probably do very well in a power/weight calculated division
One thing that can help is lighter wheels. I’m sure those little steelies are pretty light but when it comes to rolling only a few pounds means a lot more. I’m sure you knew that though just wanna see some nice rims on the beast performance wise that this is
Another good video. Not sure why I find your videos so interesting but I am like a kid on Christmas eve waiting for Santa to bring presents as I wait for your next video. lol Phil
Hey Jimbo, thanks for another cool video. It's amazing the interest us mechanical types have in retrofitting an old Saturn with a garden tractor engine.
Figured I would add my 2 cents, hopefully not covered under other comments. This little engine is probably used at 1,500 to 2,000 rpm in the garden tractor application so, I wouldn't be too surprised if fuel delivery was subpar at redline engine speeds.
Since it is January and air temperatures will vary considerably from one week to the next, or even morning to afternoon, it may be difficult to compare "apples to apples". The colder temperatures (obviously) increasing tire rolling resistance and the air is more dense. Using a consistent tire pressure would help (which you are probably already doing). When I owned Saturn SLs and SCs, to give the best weight distribution across the contact patch equated to 42 - 44 in the front, 28 - 30 in the rear. With your lightened Saturn, I suggest 40 - 42 front, 27 - 28 rear.
Why not remove a shim from the the injection pump to advance the timing. Might not be ideal once it is turbo though.
Thanks for sharing this engine was new wasn’t it when you started so it’s not broken in yet so it should run better after you run it more and change the oil once I’d think
That is correct, the engine is a 2013 build, but it was started for the first time in September of 2022. I reckon its time for an oil change already.
I’m loving the channel! Everything I’ve ever seen from home built aero says that’s your problem. Remove the front covers, which will improve the aerodynamics and probably help keep your EGT down.
Exhaust stays cool at idle because diesels have no throttle. It’s pumping a bunch of air into the engine but not burning the vast majority of it, it just pumps it straight out the exhaust. Since there is only enough combustion happening to idle the engine but a lot of airflow moving through the intake and exhaust, it stays pretty cool. Same reason that it takes literally forever for diesels to heat up the coolant temperature when they’re just idling. They’re practically air cooled at idle.
Sweet!!
Having a 999cc turbo 3 cylinder gasser in my daily driver, I find this series quite intriguing. My brother has the same car I do but with the naturally aspirated 4 cylinder. We both have five speeds and the difference is very noticeable. His transmission has much shorter gearing and close ratios. Mine has much taller gears and significantly wider ratios which I assume is to give my turbo a chance to spool up and do something. I'm curious if the close ratio transmission is going to be a problem during acceleration once the little Kubota gets the Turbota.
The reason is because a turbo engine (even a smaller one than N/A) has a much more broad torque curve.
You can happily make plenty of grunt at 2500rpm where na might have to rev to 3500.
I think the lack of improved acceleration time to 55mph (1:09.50) can be attributed to the lower power from having to shift to 5th (as well as time needed to shift). It looks like times to 50mph were about 50 seconds with the big wheels/tires and about 44.5 seconds with the small wheels/tires. I think if you were able to use a CVT and all other variables were the same, the times between big and small tires would be most noticeable. That is, unless I’m missing something here, which happens from time to time.
That said, I love these kinds of projects. Thanks for sharing yours!
An old trick to get diesels to make more power is adding propane to the intake air. Its extra fuel but also helps everything burn faster and more evenly. You could try just bleeding some into the intake while it's accelerating.
The increase can be as much as 20%
That little diesel sounds lovely, though I've always like the noise that 3 cylinder engines make. The fuel delivery on a turbo diesel should be matched to boost pressure, otherwise you'll still get smoke off boost. If you were keen I suppose you could use a servo or stepper to adjust the rack stop automatically if that is a problem.
My Mercedes OM603 turbo diesel had a little gizmo that adjusted the fuel according to the boost pressure. Obviously this Kubota engine doesn't have that, but you are correct and one could be fabricated with a stepper motor on the rack stop. This is kinda the plan, but the engine will have to come out of the car for that mod. In the meantime we will have to deal with a temporary over rich condition as the turbo spools up.
@@robotcantina8957 An interresting test would be how the engine runs with the turbo but the same tuning as it had without the turbo.
The alternative used in cars will be kinda hard with this engine: Don't stomp down the go pedal from a start. But rather ease into it until you have boost. But yeah with this little power WOT is probably the only option to get this thing moving.
I think the boot spoiler really helps earo dinamics. In some other video i saw it helps with flow separation of the boot. Those jelly bean styled cars date from a time with a genuine oil crisis and they were not fooling around.
There is a diagram of this car on the Ecomodder forums, thread #40628.
The back of the car should taper like the Insight. The top of the spoiler is about 4" too low.
it is not. Rear separation is more or less negligent at low speeds..
He did cover the front hole creating much more drag in the front. It would be probably better to just chop off the front bottom completely and make new bottom cover.
@@piotrcurious1131 Are you claiming that the car has less drag winding through the engine bay than over a grill block and hood?
@@drippingwax there is not much inside engine bay and at such low speeds it does not seem to matter.
I did experiment with the front grille and bottom hole a bit and adding straight up surfaces creating flat point of contact is what causes losses. pressure just has to go somewhere.
Anyway perhaps best thing is to actually experiment, so f.e. using duct tape and cardboard instead of too much theory and fixed design. Early aerodynamics adopters also figured it out - there are simply too many variables.
Perhaps reason why air going thru engine bay gives better fuel economy is that it merely creates higher pressure for engine, so more cool air into engine. Who knows.
@@piotrcurious1131 Not much inside an engine bay?! :D We are finished talking! :D
The largest source of drag is the underside of the vehicle. A lot of low powered homebrew racers I've met make a full length underbody shield out of smooth plastic and it makes a massive difference in drag.
Turbulence inpacts aerodynamics a lot. Covering up all the panel gaps, window edges and headlight wells with self-adhesive tape or vinyl should do some good. Also reducing the ride height by like 6 ft, and adding a cover sheet for the undercarriage.
Then there's the unsprung mass, and also getting enough air into the wheel wells to stop drag on the tires.
Basically everything people did to 70's Nascar racers will work.
Also this diesel engine is screaming for a turbo! Love the content by the way, keep it coming! =D
I think you should use the insight wheels on the saturn to test if the lighter weight, combined with the wheel design could reduce drag and make it go faster! I just looked, and both sets of wheels should have a 4x100 bolt pattern with an offset range around 45. Who knows, maybe even a cardboard and duct tape mock up panel to copy the insight (rear wheel well panel) would help too!
Great point!
Wouldn't hiding the rear wheels behind a piece of coroplast(?) also increase aerodynamics?
The rear fender skirts may help, but I have to keep the car almost normal looking.
@@robotcantina8957 I try to regard books as if they were like fish, “catch and release.” Once I’ve read a book, unless it is exceptionally special, I donate it to put it back out in the world for others to enjoy.
As usual, you made my Sunday. "Acceleration is subjective" lol. Seems weird that the added aerodynamics didn't help, how about full moon hubcaps ha ha ha. Anyway Jimbo thanks for the entertainment and knowledge I picked up. Please keep it up.
1. You NEED a cold air intake (like MANY have already stated) with a blue Donaldson Ultra-web Nanofiber cone-style air filter. The colder the air, the more oxygen in it, the more efficiently combustion occurs (ie. more power). DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT use a K&N style cotton gauze air filter!! They flow 50x's more dirt into a motor than the Donaldson filters and 5x's more than the stock paper filters. ESPECIALLY if/when you turbocharge the motor! A cotton gauze filter basically "sand blasts" the impellers of turbos with super fine dirt that they let pass right through, which makes each blade of the impeller weigh a different amount over time (due to the uneven sanding effect) than the other blades, causing it to wobble a little, then more, and more until it wears out the turbo's bearings... ie. NOT good. Smaller turbos have impellers that spin over 100,000 rpm easily, some far more!
2. IIRC, that engine uses a 180 degree thermostat, which seems kinda cold for a diesel. My suggestion is to use a different coolant, specifically a "waterless" coolant called Evans Coolant (NPG Plus?) and raise the thermostat's temperature 25-60 degrees (might have to custom make one?). The hotter a diesel runs, the better the burn INSIDE the cylinder... ie. more efficient. This coolant is, in two small words, "BAD ASS"!! Its boiling point is between 375-400 degrees, under pressure or not!! It has ZERO water in it, which means no rusting out the motor, radiator, heater core, etc... and it also eliminates electrolysis. You can run an engine up to operating temp for a few hours and simply remove the radiator cap (with a rag!) while running and all that happens is you hear a small "pop" because this coolant DOES NOT build up pressure like normal "antifreezes" do. No squirting of antifreeze 10' into the air either or waiting forever for the motor to cool down in order to check coolant level! (I think the website is www.evanscooling.com ??)
3. Please use some good synthetic motor oil in that diesel engine, preferably Amsoil 5w30 or 15w40 HDD oils, specifically for diesels. Amsoil oils can handle the high heat AND can neutralize the acid build up better than ANY other product out there that I've tested. You should use Amsoil's bypass filter system (uses Donaldson filters) as well. It takes out MUCH finer particles in the oil than just a regular, full-flow filter alone.
4. You also might look for some 1992-1995 Honda Civic VX hatchback 13" OR 1996-2000? Honda Civic HX coupe 14" rims. Either of these are made of magnesium alloy (NOT aluminum) and are MUCH lighter than steelies OR aluminum. IIRC, the 14" HX rims weigh 14lbs. each (I currently have 4 of them on my 1996 Civic CX hatchback) and the 13" VX rims (I also have one as the spare until I find 3 or 4 more, for the same car) weigh 9lbs. each!! These specific model Hondas were made to get 50-56 mpg on the highway and 40-45 mpg in the city!!
I did not look up what 4-bolt pattern your Saturn has, but these use a 4x100mm bolt pattern.
Less centrifical/spinning mass to move = less power needed to turn = more speed & fuel efficiency.
5. I was thinking... you could also go with a good, small supercharger, like a Rotrex, instead of a turbo. The reason? Because if you go turbo you MUST change your exhaust manifold & pipes, which can be expensive and/or very time consuming. Whereas if you used the Rotrex supercharger you could keep it like you have (maybe go a little bigger diameter of pipe IF the motor needed, but probably not) and NOT have all of that extra 1800-2000 degrees of heat under the hood. Plus, you would have INSTANT power right off idle, which you desperately need in order to get up to a normal, safe speed (like other "normal" traffic). With a turbo, you are going to have some lag (even with an intercooler) until you get that motor spinning at a higher rpm, but the supercharger doesn't need higher rpm to give you power. The Rotrex is also as efficient, or even MORE efficient, than an average turbocharger (80-85%), like 95%-99%+ efficiency for the Rotrex!! They have a few different sizes, but I think the one they use on Harley Davidson's (which DOUBLED its horsepower!!) will probably be just right for this application.
Keep up the good work and let me know what you think about these suggested mods I've listed above, which will work on ANY vehicle, gas or diesel!