Posting an actual curve, a graphical chart, will make it much easier to compare against different charging strategies, after updates, and against other cars. I like your videos but the non-stop word salad can make it a chore to dig through for data points.
@@Miata822 Yes I'm not a verbal learner unless I'm familiar with the subject and it's just an update but the learning new stuff I actually do better reading or pictures
Can you please do a 10.to 85 per cent super charging on 250 or 350 kw and time frame? A 10 to 85 per cent? Or a 5 to 90 per cent? Please? With the new update? With the new car update?
As far as I can tell you are one of the only U.S. based EV reviewers focused on the actual aspect of owning a car. Hard to be impressed by range if the charge rates are low. Thanks for the hard work!
Yeah i was wondering what the hell ...my car charges about twice as fast on the other network...i know this is free for the years with VW so i couldn't complain but this is fast charging, two hours plus? Wow.
This is exactly the type of info I want to know when considering a Mustang Mach E. Everyone else is doing fluff reviews without providing the real world technical specs.
Only works on certain cars because many of the OBD2 standards don’t apply to EVs. The Mach E is so new that probably nobody has reverse engineered it yet.
@@ouch1011 the only car that doesn’t have a physical OBD-II port is Model 3. AFAIK, the Mach-E, just like the Bolt, Volt, Kona, Niro, etc. all have one. If the Mach-E is anything like the Focus Electric, it will probably be able to display some data using third party apps.
Most ev owners charge at home, this data is relevant if you take longer trips that requires charging to 100%soc during the trip. Otherwise, charge to 80% and make more frequent stops at charger and charge until the speed drops below the maximum charging speed.
It's definitely something worth considering. "what about my road trips" are one of that last real concerns people have. Though realistically, I can't imagine many are doing the cross-country trips where it's too relevant. If your vehicle's got 300 miles range, one half-way recharge will get you pretty far. If you stop to eat meals it's really not too big a deal.
It looks like that button pusher was made for that, and the perfect length too. I'm glad you didn't have to get out of the car every 60 seconds in 40 deg F (or less!) for 2 and a half hours! Thanks to you and Alyssa for enduring that hardship.
Suggestion: Show a charging rate graph at the end, there are lots of those for Tesla so it would be an easy way to compare visually to the competition.
Was really pushing to get a Mach-E, but after this last recall halted any chance of one being sold, I bought a Model Y LR. If I did find one that was available, I was greeted with ADM(Additional Dealer Markup). No thanks! I am a veteran and I don't recommend the dealer I contacted. I was told no X plan pricing and no Military discounts on the Mach-E.
9:50 I'd recommend doing a screen record from the app. I just load it on my phone and record the screen. The app doesn't toggle away from the charging speed display, and as along as you have an internet access, it updates in real time.
I look foward to see the different charging curves starting at different SOCs to help determine the optimal charging patterns on a road trip to minimize total charging times.
I just got done with a weekend with an AWD Extended Range Mach-E and I also noticed that a LOT of tesla owners (by a lot I mean the 9 of them in my town in central Montana lol) absolutely loved the car! Best looking EV in it's class, IMHO. Awesome video, I'm just getting started so I'm not as good yet at reviews but learning a lot!
As someone who is super interested in EV's but never had any actual experience with them (aside from 1 or 2 short trips in friends/family members' cars) I found this super interesting! It's one of those things that seems boring to people who do it all the time I'm sure, but to me it was fascinating! My family is currently thinking about a Mach-E to replace our 220K mile Honda Odyssey that has begun to burn lots of oil (along with many other smaller issues).
Thank you for this video. Work for a state agency and they're rolling out these EV's to the fleet. I'm testing it out for my area and the people who delivered it weren't all that helpful. This answered more of my questions than I even knew to ask.
charge speed slows down as higher % is approached, for battery safety & longevity. for road trips, suppose to do 80% then move on to the next station in the trip when you drop down to 20%, use ABRP app.. charge up to 100% during a road trip is unwise & unrealistic with the current battery technology
Kyle we’re in Salina Ks with our Taycan for the all German Car Show and are staying at the fabulous Hotel Homewood Suites by Hilton that you mentioned on your video on CZcams. What a great place and fabulous restaurant. Thanks for the recommendation!
As an owner of an ICE, I am not worthy to comment expertly on the subject of battery charging. It seems logical that Ford tries to encourage Mach-E owners to keep their state of charge between 20 and 80 percent which is great for the longevity of Lithium ion batteries. Yes, the charging speeds could be improved to Tesla-like ones but with a potential for shorter life of the batteries. I think that Ford has done a very good job on their first full-fledged EV (the Focus doesn't count at a 70 mile range). Great video, and am anticipating the road trip results!
As a 2012 Leaf owner with battery degradation of 40%, I’m all for Ford being cautious with the battery packs at least until have better information on battery health under high charge.
I have a Mustang Mach E without the extended range option. In June 2021, I will be taking the car to Colorado Springs, CO from Elizabethtown, KY. I will report to Kyle my experience with charging on the way. I love the Mach E. It is such a wonderful vehicle and a very quiet and pleasant car to drive.
This is all very useful. I drove the Mach e and LOVED it! I own a 2019 Tesla Model 3 LR AWD and had a Model Y that I sold. So, looking to replace my Model 3...Loved the drive of the Ford, but didn’t get a chance to do any charging stuff..looking at the e-tron too as I had a Q7 and love it. I think the interior of the Audi is overall better, but not miles better (no pun intended). LOVE the plow marker trick! Golfers have those in their bags, so good alternative use! Leaning e-tron due to the better charging speed, but still open...I know the e-tron range is lower, but having driven an EV now for about 2+ years, I completely know that a vehicle with low 200s is plenty, even for long trips and that charging speed is more important as I make stops pretty much every two hours at most (about 150-175 miles). I hope you are doing something Alissa wants to do for her putting up with your passion!!
$29.80 is crazy. One of the reason I switch to EV is to save $ on gas. I paid .11 cents/ KW on Tesla Supercharger so on my Model Y only cost me $7-$8 to fill up.
In my industry 300 seconds is the standard for "startup current" for our cable products. I presume Ford is using something similar. So I presume they are using a combination of Start up boost, battery internal resistance and current stepping for charging. Hopefully they can avoid the current stepping and move to a more progressive approach (similar to what GM did with the Bolt EV in 2020).
The Electrify America chargers in Texas charge 12 cents a minute for pass plus members. The biggest expense I have occurred is on my back home from San Antonio, because there is only one group of chargers from San Antonio to my house in kingsville 165 miles away. For my 2020 Chevy Bolt I charge to 90 percent for that leg of the trip and it's been costing about 10 dollars. 12 cents a minute from 1-90 kilowatts, 24 cents a minute from 91-350 kilowatts for pass plus members.
Mach-E definitely needs to improve that charging strategy, I agree a dynamic sensor approach would be more ideal. Thanks for another great video! Glad you moved to CO. I charged there a few weeks ago. I’m sure our paths will cross in the future 😊
Indeed, for me having an EV, and having to recharge it for 2 hours on a trip is a total show stopper. That's pretty disappointing. I think from review I've seen so far that it is quite an enjoyable car. But as long as charging is such a pain, I'm not gonna buy one 😕
Thank you Kyle! This is great information! A long time ago we rented a fusion and were quite impressed by the vehicle (we’re mostly Audi and GM owners) the looks of the Mustang EV are striking and I like its design more than the design of the gas ones 😉 I really appreciate your help doing this video and with my learning curve of EV ownership. Now dipping my toes with an Audi Q5e and loving the vehicle! I love doing long range travel so your videos are awesome thank you for investing yourself in this project! I’m glad you had good company charging the mustang she’s a trooper! 🎉
I always, always, appreciate these tests! West coast currently has way more Tesla chargers, but EA is slowly creeping in, so I do appreciate you doing these tests to test the viability of DCFC for other vehicles! Thanks very much!
I like the Mach-E and I think Ford did a great job designing it, but that charging curve has GOT to be improved. Seems ridiculous for an EV to charge like that today!
Well it should certainly stop people hogging the chargers when they have reached 80% which is a good thing. That said a car like this needs a better curve from zero to eighty
@@kennyb123 That may be true of you and your uses, but there are millions of people that enjoy travelling and taking road trips in their vehicles. Cart Manufacturers for the last 70years have pushed and made that not only possible but fun.
Kyle, great review, I just took my 2020 Kia Soul EV to a New Electrify Canada station in Nanaimo, BC and the Phone app has all the details, KWH delivered, KW charge rate and time and just a refresh is required every so often. I would like to see how the Polestar 2 with the latest software update perform, the two cars are the same price here in Canada.
I have a feeling that Ford is being conservative because they want to get more real world data from owners charging in various environments and temperatures before they increase the charging speed later on to avoid stressing the battery out too much early on. I think Tesla did the same thing with the Model 3 and Model Y when they first came out. The charging rates were capped at a certain amount, but after a few months they increased it once they had some real world data to work with.
I’m thinking Ford is sandbagging like Tesla did when the Model 3 first came out. Remember for a time many assumed 120kW was all a Model 3 could do. Then later with the V2.5 Supercharger update they upped it to 150kW and finally after announcing V3 Supercharging they took it up to 250kW. I don’t think Ford will take it that far but if it’s able to pull 160kW I’d guess they can take it up to 195kW if they want to. Maybe after the Ioniq 5 hits the market they’ll be more confident in their systems and raise it to 195kW to compete with that. Why 195kW specifically? That’s the fastest you can charge on a 500A charger with a 400V pack (Bjorn gets that with his Model 3 on Ionity).
Isn’t the voltage of the Mach-E closer to 350 volts? I thought I read that somewhere. I personally doubt the peak kW will change. If anything, I think they will slow down the descent so it holds higher kW rates for longer; perhaps make it more dynamic and data driven based on heat. It makes sense that Ford wants to be conservative and take it slow gathering data. If they get it wrong and overheat their battery packs, it could cause massive warranty/safety liability that Ford cannot afford to pay. Not to mention reputation hit.
I've been testing out the CCS Tesla adapter on my channel stopped at 5 stations yesterday... I found a Chargepoint at an oncue gas station in Oklahoma City. first of all very clean install three parking spots, two stations with CCS/CHAdeMO. 125 KW shared between the stations so if you're there alone you can get nice power. But the big thing was the price was 9¢ per kilowatt hour!!! That's cheaper than most home charging! amazing! Anyway I just can't quit bragging about that station next time you're through Oklahoma City you should try it out for sure!
I’m not sure if those are the the correct expressions in English, but what Ford is doing “charging for a certain amount of time at a peak rate and the throttling down” is an open-loop controller, which makes less of a sense in this case, as it is quite easy to monitor the pack temperature and reacting to that thus creating a close-loop-controller. Even the fact that you can unplug and then replay and you get a second session of peak power shows that A) It is a open-loop-controller that ignores pack temperature B) Ford is quite sure they can deliver peak rate at any state of charge but their cooling system is not able to get all the thermal losses of the pack at peak rate, and they use the thermal inertia of the system. So I personally don‘t understand why Ford thinks this isotherm best way to go.
Kyle, Awesome content as always.. 👍 great to see this looks like 49min 0-80% from your video @ 12:35 .. and 10-80% about 42min not too bad overall but still has room for improvement.. and major improvements needed for 80-100% on DC FC..
I'm not convinced that Ford is feeling any need to change the charging speed on the Mach-E. Ford has blown past their 45 minutes to 80% promise so I don't know if it makes sense for them to give buyers even better speed. It may take a lot of public pressure on Ford's leadership team to make faster charging happen.
Love your videos. Started follow you days ago and just saw all videos. Thanks for this content. BTW i just bought month ago a model 3 2021 SR+ and i using a lot your tips. Also I’m a track instructor from PCA and have a 911 T too. Nice to meet you.
A big Thank you to Dave for the loan of the car. I hope Ford modifies the software where you will be able to see on the screen the charging data. When Dave charged the car I got the impression that you had to stay with the car or the EA charger would shut off. If this was the case, will you be looking into this on future posts?
0% - 10:45 pm 5% = 1 min -- 10:46 pm 10% = 3 min -- 10:48 pm (3 minutes 0 - 10%) 20% = 8 min -- 10:53 pm (5 minutes 10% - 20%) 30% = 14 min -- 10:59 pm (6 minutes 20% - 30%) 40% = 19 min -- 11:04 pm (5 minutes 30% - 40%) 50% = 26 min -- 11:11 pm (7 minutes 40% - 50%) 60% = 34 min -- 11:19 pm (8 minutes 50% - 60%) 70% = 41 min -- 11:26 pm (7 minutes 60% - 70%) 80% = 49 min -- 11:34 pm (8 minutes 70% - 80%) 10% - 70% = 38 minutes 10% - 80% = 46 minutes (Bjorn's 10% - 80% test took 41 minutes.) 20% - 70% = 33 minutes 20% - 80% = 41 minutes Obviously the peak charging rate upon first plugging in is meant to warm up the battery without damaging it and allow a higher SOC over the rest of the session. Bit weird that you can unplug and plugin and it'll keep re-peaking... maybe something Ford didn't think to check because no one should be doing this. Guess they'll have to add a heat check to ensure people don't destroy their batteries by trying to max out speed with tricks like this... At higher SOC, the pack voltage is higher, allowing less resistance and less heat generation so the peak can last a bit longer. The slow down over 80% is fine IMO. I imagine this has nothing to do with protecting the pack and is a software limitation meant to get people to optimize their charging and not take up so much plug time. To make it even harder, EA should raise the price once a car's hit 80%. Worst case, people will keep doing it, but EA will have more money to install more plugs. For those who don't know how to optimize charging on a long trip, this will make it abundantly clear that charging over 80% doesn't make any sense and is wasting a plug. The only issue would be if the customer needs over 80% to make it to the next plug, which isn't an issue on main routes, and won't be an issue on the lesser used routes in the near future. If the customer does want to charge over 80%, move the car off the DC fast charger to a slow charger; it'll charge at the same rate for less money and not take up the more critical DC fast charger infrastructure. EA could offer a few slow chargers at much lower rates to facilitate this. (maybe they already do?) They're MUCH cheaper units and MUCH cheaper to install. Title's click bait ish. Kyle knows full well that charging over 80% doesn't make any sense. For those people who don't really care about the details, this title will confuse them and make them question the purchase of a perfectly capable EV.
This is very useful; even a top off from 40% to 80% SOC is only 30 minutes. And in a pinch, 5% to 30% in only 13 minutes. Agree with you, when on a roadtrip, charging up to 80% will be the norm, unless overnighting.
In Idaho I have to go above 80% to make it between superchargers. If the idea is to make that painful (here's a tip, it's already painful enough), that's not a selling point for me.
@@jonathansage2147 Does that mean you live in Idaho, or are traveling through? It depends entirely on where you're driving. Main Idaho highways are well covered by EA. No idea if there are other charging networks in the state. If a network's charging locations rely on people charging to above 80% (about 215 miles in nicer weather), then clearly they need more chargers... and eventually they'll get them. It's still early days, networks are trying to cover the main / most used routes. I don't think we should expect all cars to be all things for all people this early in the transition. It's ok if a car doesn't work for you, I assume OEMs with their limited production quantities want to target the higher population areas first with higher tax credit incentives and states that have ZEV/GHG credit programs that they need the EVs to offset their ICE sales. They're not going to prioritize one of the lowest population states in the nation.
@@updlate4756 I live in Idaho. I have two Model Xs, a 2021 MXP and a 2018 MX 100D. Using main routes in cold conditions there is no way to make many of the legs in Idaho without charging above 80% because the speed limit is 80 mph. And yes, the solution is more charging infrastructure, not higher range, but that doesn't exist yet. My point is that arbitrarily and capriciously limiting the ability to charge past 80% at the max possible speed is extremely unappealing to me - especially since the MX already has better range than the Mach E and it's a problem for me.
@@jonathansage2147 Or an alternative solution is to lobby to reduce speed limits. lol. I mean, this isn't meant for you, but it just wooshes over so many peoples' heads that lower speed limits improve efficiency for both ICEs and EVs, using less fossil fuel and grid energy, and reducing overall emissions. The higher the speed limit, the more it's impossible for people to drive at lower / more efficient speeds without creating a more dangerous driving environment. In other words, people are effectively being forced to drive faster. But that's just an aside... You say infrastructure doesn't exist yet, but neither do many vehicles with higher range. You can't really use a model X 100 as your comparison factor. Most people can't afford that vehicle, or don't want to afford that vehicle. As to cold weather range, I mean, let's be honest, Tesla's been overstating their overall highway range. Nevermind highway range in cold weather. You'd really have to wait and see what the Mach-E does in cold weather. Probably not great without a heatpump, but that's not something you model X has either yet... I imagine Ford is doing this to ensure reliable charging access. Charging speeds slow down so much after 80% that it makes a lot more sense for the person to get off the fast charger and move to a slow charger or go to the next charger. Once plug counts grow, this won't be an issue. I could be wrong, and maybe there's a fundamental problem with Ford's battery. Not sure... Either way, the vast majority of time people won't be charging over 80%... or at least shouldn't be if they're optimizing. It's only necessary in a few low use circumstances.
Love the Mach E content (on the top of my short list of EVs to pick up, later this year) but also the hoodies. Please sir, where do you buy your hoodies they look SO COMFORTABLE.
As with any EV I'm not sure with that battery pack size unless it was necessary that charging to 100% is necessary, good to show it in a test but reality is 80% on that pack is more than adequate for most daily driving.
You have to remember that you only use the DC fast charging for the most part on long road trips. That being said the model 3/Y can charge on the Tesla superchargers from 0 - 100% in about an hour. So if this is fords answers too fast charging then they need to rethink it. Also the Tesla superchargers are cheaper then EA, in some states they’re about half as much. But once again you have to remember that you really only use public fast charging on a road trip. At home where I live it's $.06 a KW so to charge a Model 3/Y or Mach E would be less then $5.00 to charge 0 - 100%.
@@agcoin2512 I live in Idaho falls, we make our own power. The people of the city own the power plant and we all get to vote on any changes. It’s been like that since the 1950s. Hopefully I won’t have to see it change anytime soon.
This is really just an ad for a Tesla or a good PHEV if you plan on driving long distances, I haven’t seen a BEV made by someone other than Tesla that impresses me for time of charge, and of course a PHEV like the Clarity, a used 2nd gen. Volt or a Rav4Prime would give you a EV around town, and a vehicle that could do road trips with ease in hybrid mode.
@@andrewcook3292 I going to buy a BEV next but mostly for around town use, w'ell keep our PHEV for long trips, in almost every case, the recharge numbers are a best case scenario, temperature and humidity, condition of the charger, power grid restraints, and number of people charging at the same time, all come into play
I totally disagree with Kyle on charging cost. So far my MY charging costs have averaged about 25 cents per kWh. That puts fuel cost for electric close to a car getting 30 mpg at $2.50 per gallon. 32 cents sounds very high and unacceptable to me. If you have free charging you no doubt do not care, but when paying the bill for a long trip, 7 cents a kWh adds up.
Am I the only one that finds this video shockingly bad for the #MachE? I cannot imagine being stuck at 12kW at an Electrify America station charging by the minute for the 80-100% portion for over an hour and a half. What the hell was Ford thinking? It’s not even like it charges quickly from 0-80%. It took nearly an hour. I really can’t believe Ford released a car that charges this slowly. If the Ioniq 5 is half as good as I’m hoping it will be, it’s going to be the new gold standard for charging. 5-80% in just a little over 15 minutes is legit and makes the Mach-E look like it was developed 50 years ago. Also, why does Electrify America put two CCS connectors on each charger when there’s only one parking stall?? My biggest issue with EA is their major lack of charging stations, pricing and unreliable performance. They also have really weird locations. Here in Raleigh, I know Kyle is familiar with the Starbucks on Glenwood Ave location (why so far from the interstate???), Wake Forest Walmart (nearly 10 miles from I-540 up the most traffic logged road, Capital Blvd), the Cary EA station (again, not very fast to get to). Then there are the 300-1200 mile sections of major interstates like I-40, I-20, I-55, I-94 that do not have a single EA station, meaning travel to vast swaths of the country is impossible unless you rely on AC charging. For 99.99999% of people that’s not going to work. Those gaps and others need to filled ASAP since VW, Ford and others are now delivering mass produced, somewhat mainstream cars to the public that will have to rely on Electrify America for charging. Electrify America still has major cities like VA Beach-Norfolk, Wilmington, NC and Myrtle Beach, SC that don’t even have charging stations. We’re talking about some of the busiest tourist destinations in the country. With very few new stations seemingly under construction I don’t have any hope that Electrify America will close these gaps any time soon. That’s really the main thing that keeps Tesla in such an advatangeous position. People are going to buy a new $65,000 Mach-E just to discover they can’t make it to their favorite vacation spots without stopping overnight to charge on AC power or hoping there is some third party 50kW charging station that actually works on their route.
Thanks for this charging test. I’m a Ford stock holder since about 2010 and hope the MME becomes a success. I’m on the fence ordering a MME like this one, the 4X. The concern I have is charging time and range as I live 95 miles from the airport and really believe that for road trips I’d like to do 500 mile day in 8-10 hours. The range concern comes from seeing vlogs from the North East that have shown cold weather ranges of less than 200 and as low as 170 miles I believe. Just before I watched this test I saw your VW ID4 charging video and was very impressed, even given the smaller battery. Your road trip will be informative and hopefully the OTA software update improves the charging profile.
So Ford has basically hardcoded some values in their charging curve instead of dynamically assessing the temperature, voltage and other parameters necessary. I remember hardcoding some values in my first year college C program when I wasn't getting the desired dynamic output.
oh no..here comes all the comments about how unpractical EV's are based on the title. No one ever charges to 100 on a fast charger! People go from 20-80% (the fastest rates) and move on to the next charger. No one realistically waits 2 hours, 20 min for a restroom/snack break and good to keep driving for another 3-4 hours.
MINI Cooper SE is such a nice efficient car! Believe its built on BMW i3 platform? Just an amazing car, and It can be road tripped (Short hops, but charges from 0-100 fast) NOt as fun as something like mustang, but its possible assuming you don't have infrastructure issues.
Hopefully Ford are just being _really_ conservative with the initial top-end charging curve. Thanks for the analysis Kyle, this is the EV content we love to geek out on!
My problem rn. I have the Mach e premium 220 mi range and Im too embarrassed to go on a road trip considering how long it takes to charge. Might trade to the ioniq 5. Shame on Ford. & no partnership with EA either for free charging like other companies.
It isn't the right way with no sensor input so I agree with what you imply. When the mach-e says 100% it still goes higher. 100 to 99% is not linear to the rest of the pack. L2 to 100% gives you 15 miles in the first 1% but the car does not have 1500 miles of range. Appears range test should be carried out with 80% SOC on this car right now.
We drove our Model 3 to Las Vegas right before the pandemic and the entire 708 mile trip cost $43.04 in super charging. That works out to about $0.06/mile. This test, if the car gets 270 miles is just over $0.11/mile and if it's 220 miles range then that's $0.13/mile. That's starting to be pretty significant.
Anyone who is considering buying this car, keep in mind that this is quite unrealistic and misleading for general ownership. Although I respect what he did for the video, there are a few items that would almost never happen for responsible owners. Allowing your car to hit 0% is terrible for the battery. I've owned my Mach E for almost 3 months now and the lowest I've gone is 10%. Please don't go much lower than that. The temperature and charger location is also variable. Since he was at near freezing temperatures, charging is slower. At EA I consistently get 140+kwh. Charging at any EA station no matter what car you drive, it will slow down after 80% which was the most misleading issue I've seen so far. First, you do not want to charge to 100% unless you're going on a long trip but even if you do, I'm sure you can charge to 80% at each station and save yourself 2 hours for 20%. That goes for any new EV. The vast majority of the time you will only need to fast charge for 20-40 minutes. I don't have a charger at home because of my insane HOA in LA but I get by perfectly fine with free fast charging all over the place. I bought the 300 mi range premium RWD and I'm consistently getting an average of 340+ miles range. I don't drive like a speed demon and I mainly keep it in whisper mode. I highly recommend to anyone, especially those who are thinking about getting a model X or Y. It's a fun vehicle, easily the best looking EV and it the interior is far better than any other car I test drove before I bought this.
Bjorn said you can reconfigure the charging. Of the car to charge faster, and remarked it should be made to go to that mode or default to charge automatically . He has done a lot on the Ford check them out.
Bolt EUV I presume will charge exactly the same as the 2020 Bolt EV as it uses the exact same battery setup. Bolt EUV should pull 150A constant till about 55% SOC (46KW a very low SOC then slowly climbs to about 56KW as pack voltage increases) then slowly start to ramp down with the ramp accelerating down after 70% SOC.
Great review. I’m not sure if I agree with Ford in the way they manage their charging rates. Did Ford engineering give any insights on their reasoning behind their schemes? Can you describe how they are managing the battery pack thermal management? BTW, how are you getting your hands on these EV’s? Are you buying them? Loaners? Thanks!
This one is a loaner from EV Dave. It is a production model (bought off a dealer lot). Dave also has a youtube channel (mostly focused on Teslas currently, though will likely expand to other EVs in the future). Link to his channel is in the video description.
Great video. $29 and if you do that twice a you’re looking at 60 bucks a week. So $240 a month. People need to know how much it cost to charge at public charging stations as it will not always be free. Plus it’s bad for the battery to use them all the time. I stay away from charging stations and charge at home.
Kyle, this is super informative. Have you thought about having some of these companies hire you as a consultant to help them optimize their charging curves & efficiency? If it’s a question of software, the likes of Ford, VW, Volvo, Polestar, Jaguar, Rivian, and so on (not Tesla ‘cause they got it all figured out, right? LOL) could gain a lot from this kind of data
Sounds like they set the software to encourage all charge planning to be between 20 and 80%. My etron kills its DC fast between 15% and 80% 10k miles and everytime I travel I can charge between those windows
That assumes you will use fast DC charging for the majority of your needs (and you might). Most people will usually charge at home or at work where the cost of providing a full charge will be considerably less. Ranges from $4-8 per full tank depending on the cost of electricity where you live.
@@SeanCaldwellvo Your estimated price range is a bit narrow. Where I live (in So. Cal.), home charging to go 270 miles would cost $20-25, but the gasoline at 26 mpg would cost over $38 @ the current price of about $3.70 per gallon.
Thanks. Very interesting....and disappointing. I reserved a MME and am looking forward to receiving it in a few weeks. Looks like Tesla knows battery management, but can’t build cars well. Ford can build cars well, but doesn’t know battery management. Hopefully each company will get better with their respective weaknesses. I hope Ford can improve my car’s charging capabilities with OTA updates. I don’t know if I trust that they will do so. They are a legacy car manufacturer and their strategy in the past is to try to sell me a new car every 3-5 years because of planned obsolescence. I hope they don’t do that with the MME.
Great video looking forward to the future charging sessions and your road trip. The cost of charging seems high to me. You are correct it is cheaper than the per minute fee. But even with this it cost you more to get 250 miles of range then I would spend in my Toyota hybrid to get the same number of miles. Significantly different. At $2.75 per gallon. I would have spent $19 to go 250 MI. Doesn't really seem like a great deal, of course there's the lower maintenance cost with an EV. But it would be interesting to do the comparison. I do all my own maintenance on my own car. Fuel all fluids and maintenance and tires cost me 7 cents per mile.
They are a bit more pricey compared to DC charging with EV go or Chargepoint. I do appreciate the amount of stations EA has which is great, but I almost always have an issue with one of their stations. Chargepoint has always had the least amount of issue for me
At the moment highly subsidized gasoline makes charging at Electrified America a regular EV like Ford Mustang Mach E featured in the video look like extremely expensive. However, doing the math it turns out that with real world of 275 miles range Mach E costs 29.2$ to charge. It needs to spend a dollar per 9.42 miles driven. The national USA average price of gas is 2.77$. For one dollar the driver of a PHEV like recently featured on this channel BMW X5 PHEV can buy 0.36 gallons of gas. According to EPA being rated at 20 MPG that car when battery is depletted can drive 7.22 miles for the same dollar. Making the ratio it turns out the driver of Mach E has to spend on "fuel" the same amount of money as a ICE driver with a car rated at 26 MPG which is close to money spent by somebody driving a Volvo XC90 PHEV rated 27 MPG while battery is depletted. If the charging speed is going to improve charging will get close enough to the the time spent filling the tank with gasoline. Conclusion: 1.With decent charging speed and discontinuation of gasoline subsidies even costly Electrify America will make financial sence for fast charging EVs. The proof of my words come in a video on TFL channel when Tesla Model 3 using supercharging network costed only some cents more than using gasoline in colorado mountains to drive a AWD Toyota Prius the same distance up in mountains and back downhill. And in that case Prius is rated 52-55 MPG. 2. On longer than 700 miles trip on Alex on Autos channel Mach E has shown comparable charging time to the best new EVs on the market.
You never DC fast charge to 100% anyway. You charge to 70-85% depending on the car and off you go. The SUVs Audi E-Tron and E-Tron Sportback charge quite fast over 80% tho. Takes 10 seconds to plug in at the AC wallbox at home where you can start with a full "tank" every day. 20 seconds to plug in at a fast charger and scan the RFID. On longer trips you plug in and go to the restroom, stretch your legs and maybe grab some food while you charge for 20-40 minutes. I prefer the EV over the petrol car every day. The petrol car doesen't have an app for preheating during winter or cooling befor you go during summer either.
@@christianolsen2192 True. I suppose we will have to adjust to a new system in general. It’ll take some getting used to but will feel very normal in time.
@@anthonywalker6168 I think the battery packs will be different in the next 5-10 years also 🙂 Lighter, less minerals and materials used, and more dependable and faster charging. Some cars are very fragile to low or high temperatures. Like the Nissan Leaf (especially the 40kWh) who doesen't have active cooling. The battery pack is almost cooking after a longer trip with several fast charging sessions. Or how slow charging might be on cars without battery heater during winter. I respect that the EV's of today isn't for everyone. But in a few years I think the issues with charging will be long gone 🙂
@@christianolsen2192 That tired crap of "starting with a full tank every morning" only works if you are always at home and not out in the real world doing anything else. Newsflash, you aren't always at home.
Hopefully they update the curve if they havent yet, thats too slow. My LFP M3 doesn’t have impressive numbers on paper but in practice it charges really quickly.
I *love* the looks of this vehicle. The amount of time to recharge EVs is waaaaay to long though. Especially when you are pressed for time to get to destinations far enough away where you have to recharge it on the road. I hope the time to charge tech gets better. If/when it does, I am in. Until then, I will watch these videos & drool over the car.
Thanks for the very informative video. I had a feeling, based on other videos from other folks, that this was going to be the case. I'm still very impressed with the speed my E-tron charges......I was hoping this was going to be the same way......maybe Ford will update this over the air in the future? Just the 0-50% was a ridiculous time for me as the Etron has me spoiled.....although I must not forget all the time I spent at chargers with the Bolt.....speaking of which, I'm definitely looking forward to you testing the Bolt EUV
“thermal strategy” sounds like a consultant made it up. It should ramp dynamically like you said. The 20-80 is the most important test, please do that one first! 👍
My family has a Chevy Bolt currently and a Mach-E on the way, and in all honesty, with prices like that to fill up from 0-100%, I simply wouldn’t road trip an electric car. I’d rather have a fuel efficient hybrid that’ll go 500 miles for same price. If we want to get more people feeling comfortable about buying electric cars, charging prices have to be low as in $.20 per kWh.
This seems very expensive. I road trip in California (expensive rates) never spent more that $25 to fill up my model 3 performance. Seems a slow charge. I realize that Tessa is way ahead of the game, but Road tripping in that mustang must be rough 😬. Not to be negative though, I think it’s great that there’s more chargers and more EV is on the road, just glad I went with Tesla.
0:00- Intro
0:23 - Testing Procedures / Background Info
6:20 - Arrival to EA Station
8:00 - Charging Curve
13:53 - The Stats
Posting an actual curve, a graphical chart, will make it much easier to compare against different charging strategies, after updates, and against other cars.
I like your videos but the non-stop word salad can make it a chore to dig through for data points.
@@Miata822 Yes I'm not a verbal learner unless I'm familiar with the subject and it's just an update but the learning new stuff I actually do better reading or pictures
Can you please do a 10.to 85 per cent super charging on 250 or 350 kw and time frame? A 10 to 85 per cent? Or a 5 to 90 per cent? Please? With the new update? With the new car update?
As far as I can tell you are one of the only U.S. based EV reviewers focused on the actual aspect of owning a car. Hard to be impressed by range if the charge rates are low. Thanks for the hard work!
Thanks for watching!
Yeah i was wondering what the hell ...my car charges about twice as fast on the other network...i know this is free for the years with VW so i couldn't complain but this is fast charging, two hours plus? Wow.
last 20% is very slow, i only charge my EVs to 80% then drive untill the next required charge
@@OutofSpecReviews Awesome work Kyle. I've been binge watching all your EV videos this weekend! Subscribe and thumbs up everyone!
Alex on Autos bought a mach e that he owns!
Hitting that button every minute for 2.5 hours == Respect
Thank you for all of your hard work gathering this data for us!
This is exactly the type of info I want to know when considering a Mustang Mach E. Everyone else is doing fluff reviews without providing the real world technical specs.
I test drove the extended version yesterday. I was impressed. Very compelling vehicle.
Hey Kyle. You should get a Bluetooth obd2 reader, so you can see all the values. Björn Nyland uses it for all his tests, it's a great tool.
Only works on certain cars because many of the OBD2 standards don’t apply to EVs. The Mach E is so new that probably nobody has reverse engineered it yet.
@@ouch1011 the only car that doesn’t have a physical OBD-II port is Model 3. AFAIK, the Mach-E, just like the Bolt, Volt, Kona, Niro, etc. all have one. If the Mach-E is anything like the Focus Electric, it will probably be able to display some data using third party apps.
Yup, Bjorn is great too 😆
@@CFG39 Yes, you can read all the data, but you also have to reverse engineer that data stream to understand what all those numbers stand for.
Most ev owners charge at home, this data is relevant if you take longer trips that requires charging to 100%soc during the trip. Otherwise, charge to 80% and make more frequent stops at charger and charge until the speed drops below the maximum charging speed.
It's definitely something worth considering. "what about my road trips" are one of that last real concerns people have.
Though realistically, I can't imagine many are doing the cross-country trips where it's too relevant. If your vehicle's got 300 miles range, one half-way recharge will get you pretty far. If you stop to eat meals it's really not too big a deal.
It looks like that button pusher was made for that, and the perfect length too. I'm glad you didn't have to get out of the car every 60 seconds in 40 deg F (or less!) for 2 and a half hours! Thanks to you and Alyssa for enduring that hardship.
Suggestion: Show a charging rate graph at the end, there are lots of those for Tesla so it would be an easy way to compare visually to the competition.
I agree, and maybe have a csv download so we can manipulate the data.
Thank you EV Dave for letting Kyle test your new car.
100% Agree!! Thank You EV Dave!
Was really pushing to get a Mach-E, but after this last recall halted any chance of one being sold, I bought a Model Y LR. If I did find one that was available, I was greeted with ADM(Additional Dealer Markup). No thanks! I am a veteran and I don't recommend the dealer I contacted. I was told no X plan pricing and no Military discounts on the Mach-E.
The recall only affected 70 vehicles that had been delivered.
Do they give A plan pricing on these?
@@BloodySoup74 I think it really depends on dealer. Some deers did 4k off and some mark up!!
Thank you for your service.
9:50 I'd recommend doing a screen record from the app. I just load it on my phone and record the screen. The app doesn't toggle away from the charging speed display, and as along as you have an internet access, it updates in real time.
Good idea! - Kyle
Eric is the best a bolt pioneer
I look foward to see the different charging curves starting at different SOCs to help determine the optimal charging patterns on a road trip to minimize total charging times.
I just got done with a weekend with an AWD Extended Range Mach-E and I also noticed that a LOT of tesla owners (by a lot I mean the 9 of them in my town in central Montana lol) absolutely loved the car! Best looking EV in it's class, IMHO. Awesome video, I'm just getting started so I'm not as good yet at reviews but learning a lot!
Good luck to you!
As someone who is super interested in EV's but never had any actual experience with them (aside from 1 or 2 short trips in friends/family members' cars) I found this super interesting! It's one of those things that seems boring to people who do it all the time I'm sure, but to me it was fascinating! My family is currently thinking about a Mach-E to replace our 220K mile Honda Odyssey that has begun to burn lots of oil (along with many other smaller issues).
Thank you for this video. Work for a state agency and they're rolling out these EV's to the fleet. I'm testing it out for my area and the people who delivered it weren't all that helpful. This answered more of my questions than I even knew to ask.
Great job Kyle. This kind of information is helpful for planning a road trip in EV's.
charge speed slows down as higher % is approached, for battery safety & longevity. for road trips, suppose to do 80% then move on to the next station in the trip when you drop down to 20%, use ABRP app.. charge up to 100% during a road trip is unwise & unrealistic with the current battery technology
Kyle we’re in Salina Ks with our Taycan for the all German Car Show and are staying at the fabulous Hotel Homewood Suites by Hilton that you mentioned on your video on CZcams. What a great place and fabulous restaurant. Thanks for the recommendation!
As an owner of an ICE, I am not worthy to comment expertly on the subject of battery charging. It seems logical that Ford tries to encourage Mach-E owners to keep their state of charge between 20 and 80 percent which is great for the longevity of Lithium ion batteries. Yes, the charging speeds could be improved to Tesla-like ones but with a potential for shorter life of the batteries. I think that Ford has done a very good job on their first full-fledged EV (the Focus doesn't count at a 70 mile range). Great video, and am anticipating the road trip results!
20-80 or less helps with batteries and helps those who are low and waiting to charge. Most people tend to forget about that last part.
Still a useable ev even if it was only built for compliance in regards to ever increasing emission standards.
As a 2012 Leaf owner with battery degradation of 40%, I’m all for Ford being cautious with the battery packs at least until have better information on battery health under high charge.
@@laloajuria4678 Yes, and The early battery chemistries weren’t very good. I’m curious to see how the 30 kW and 40 kW are doing
I have a Mustang Mach E without the extended range option. In June 2021, I will be taking the car to Colorado Springs, CO from Elizabethtown, KY. I will report to Kyle my experience with charging on the way. I love the Mach E. It is such a wonderful vehicle and a very quiet and pleasant car to drive.
This is all very useful. I drove the Mach e and LOVED it! I own a 2019 Tesla Model 3 LR AWD and had a Model Y that I sold. So, looking to replace my Model 3...Loved the drive of the Ford, but didn’t get a chance to do any charging stuff..looking at the e-tron too as I had a Q7 and love it. I think the interior of the Audi is overall better, but not miles better (no pun intended). LOVE the plow marker trick! Golfers have those in their bags, so good alternative use! Leaning e-tron due to the better charging speed, but still open...I know the e-tron range is lower, but having driven an EV now for about 2+ years, I completely know that a vehicle with low 200s is plenty, even for long trips and that charging speed is more important as I make stops pretty much every two hours at most (about 150-175 miles). I hope you are doing something Alissa wants to do for her putting up with your passion!!
$29.80 is crazy. One of the reason I switch to EV is to save $ on gas. I paid .11 cents/ KW on Tesla Supercharger so on my Model Y only cost me $7-$8 to fill up.
Home charging is definitely how you keep money in your pocket.
I was expecting to see a nice line graph with the charge curve LOL
In my industry 300 seconds is the standard for "startup current" for our cable products. I presume Ford is using something similar. So I presume they are using a combination of Start up boost, battery internal resistance and current stepping for charging. Hopefully they can avoid the current stepping and move to a more progressive approach (similar to what GM did with the Bolt EV in 2020).
I can see the lady was excited to wait 2 hours to see the Mach-E being fully charged. 😂😂😂
If he wasn’t poking the screen for 2 hrs, he could have been poking...never mind.
@@rzu7120 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Ever heard of the movie "Around the world in 80 days" well if you did it in this beast it would be more like 800! LOL
I've watched Kyle's vids on the MMe for a while now. I rate him most knowledgeable.
The Electrify America chargers in Texas charge 12 cents a minute for pass plus members. The biggest expense I have occurred is on my back home from San Antonio, because there is only one group of chargers from San Antonio to my house in kingsville 165 miles away. For my 2020 Chevy Bolt I charge to 90 percent for that leg of the trip and it's been costing about 10 dollars. 12 cents a minute from 1-90 kilowatts, 24 cents a minute from 91-350 kilowatts for pass plus members.
Mach-E definitely needs to improve that charging strategy, I agree a dynamic sensor approach would be more ideal. Thanks for another great video! Glad you moved to CO. I charged there a few weeks ago. I’m sure our paths will cross in the future 😊
Indeed, for me having an EV, and having to recharge it for 2 hours on a trip is a total show stopper. That's pretty disappointing.
I think from review I've seen so far that it is quite an enjoyable car.
But as long as charging is such a pain, I'm not gonna buy one 😕
My wife is the same way. Looks at me like a grown child when I do tests out of curiosity.
Same
Appreciate all your work in these videos
Tesla is thanking you for this
LOL they are!
Thank you Kyle! This is great information! A long time ago we rented a fusion and were quite impressed by the vehicle (we’re mostly Audi and GM owners) the looks of the Mustang EV are striking and I like its design more than the design of the gas ones 😉
I really appreciate your help doing this video and with my learning curve of EV ownership. Now dipping my toes with an Audi Q5e and loving the vehicle!
I love doing long range travel so your videos are awesome thank you for investing yourself in this project! I’m glad you had good company charging the mustang she’s a trooper! 🎉
I always, always, appreciate these tests! West coast currently has way more Tesla chargers, but EA is slowly creeping in, so I do appreciate you doing these tests to test the viability of DCFC for other vehicles! Thanks very much!
I like the Mach-E and I think Ford did a great job designing it, but that charging curve has GOT to be improved. Seems ridiculous for an EV to charge like that today!
Ford is doing pretty well, every manufacturer tapering charging current after 80%. You usually never charge beyond that point.
With my fusion hybrid I could get at least 400 miles for that price. Yes, I burn gas but price per mile is an issue.
For day to day your charge at home cost is pennies per mile. When you go to fast charge you pay a premium which can be more than gas.
Well it should certainly stop people hogging the chargers when they have reached 80% which is a good thing.
That said a car like this needs a better curve from zero to eighty
230 miles for $30?
I get 350-417 miles per $30 of gas and it only takes 2-3 minutes to fill up.
230 miles on a normal charge at home is less than half the price of gas and you don't have to go anywhere :-p
@@applemachome The point of having transportation is going somewhere.
@@sbacon92 Ahh, but how often are you driving over 230 miles without ending your trip at home? Bingo.
@@kennyb123 That may be true of you and your uses, but there are millions of people that enjoy travelling and taking road trips in their vehicles. Cart Manufacturers for the last 70years have pushed and made that not only possible but fun.
@@TheLamrith No crap. This isn't the vehicle for you.
Thanks Kyle! Looking forward to see more reviews of your road trip!
Kyle, great review, I just took my 2020 Kia Soul EV to a New Electrify Canada station in Nanaimo, BC and the Phone app has all the details, KWH delivered, KW charge rate and time and just a refresh is required every so often. I would like to see how the Polestar 2 with the latest software update perform, the two cars are the same price here in Canada.
Just down here in the US wishing they would sell the 2020 Soul here already! I love my 2016 Soul EV.
I have a feeling that Ford is being conservative because they want to get more real world data from owners charging in various environments and temperatures before they increase the charging speed later on to avoid stressing the battery out too much early on.
I think Tesla did the same thing with the Model 3 and Model Y when they first came out. The charging rates were capped at a certain amount, but after a few months they increased it once they had some real world data to work with.
Love the Grabber Blue color. Same color I have for my 17 Mustang
wish we could buy them in that color
I’m thinking Ford is sandbagging like Tesla did when the Model 3 first came out. Remember for a time many assumed 120kW was all a Model 3 could do. Then later with the V2.5 Supercharger update they upped it to 150kW and finally after announcing V3 Supercharging they took it up to 250kW.
I don’t think Ford will take it that far but if it’s able to pull 160kW I’d guess they can take it up to 195kW if they want to. Maybe after the Ioniq 5 hits the market they’ll be more confident in their systems and raise it to 195kW to compete with that.
Why 195kW specifically? That’s the fastest you can charge on a 500A charger with a 400V pack (Bjorn gets that with his Model 3 on Ionity).
Isn’t the voltage of the Mach-E closer to 350 volts? I thought I read that somewhere.
I personally doubt the peak kW will change. If anything, I think they will slow down the descent so it holds higher kW rates for longer; perhaps make it more dynamic and data driven based on heat.
It makes sense that Ford wants to be conservative and take it slow gathering data. If they get it wrong and overheat their battery packs, it could cause massive warranty/safety liability that Ford cannot afford to pay. Not to mention reputation hit.
Great video! Thanks as always!
I've seen other reviewers struggle with this - one of them turned off the e-heat and the car immediately started charging faster. Dunno why.
I've been testing out the CCS Tesla adapter on my channel stopped at 5 stations yesterday... I found a Chargepoint at an oncue gas station in Oklahoma City. first of all very clean install three parking spots, two stations with CCS/CHAdeMO. 125 KW shared between the stations so if you're there alone you can get nice power. But the big thing was the price was 9¢ per kilowatt hour!!! That's cheaper than most home charging! amazing! Anyway I just can't quit bragging about that station next time you're through Oklahoma City you should try it out for sure!
I’m not sure if those are the the correct expressions in English, but what Ford is doing “charging for a certain amount of time at a peak rate and the throttling down” is an open-loop controller, which makes less of a sense in this case, as it is quite easy to monitor the pack temperature and reacting to that thus creating a close-loop-controller.
Even the fact that you can unplug and then replay and you get a second session of peak power shows that
A) It is a open-loop-controller that ignores pack temperature
B) Ford is quite sure they can deliver peak rate at any state of charge but their cooling system is not able to get all the thermal losses of the pack at peak rate, and they use the thermal inertia of the system.
So I personally don‘t understand why Ford thinks this isotherm best way to go.
Great video, thank you. Scratching the Mach-E from my list probably but appreciate this and the road trip video.
Kyle, Awesome content as always.. 👍 great to see this looks like 49min 0-80% from your video @ 12:35 .. and 10-80% about 42min not too bad overall but still has room for improvement.. and major improvements needed for 80-100% on DC FC..
Kyle, do you know what software version you did all this test on? Would be a good idea to keep track of that as OTA update becomes real ..
I'm not convinced that Ford is feeling any need to change the charging speed on the Mach-E. Ford has blown past their 45 minutes to 80% promise so I don't know if it makes sense for them to give buyers even better speed. It may take a lot of public pressure on Ford's leadership team to make faster charging happen.
Very useful information. Thanks for doing this. Keep it up.
thanks for taking the time to do this. Kinda disappointed in the MME with regard to charge speed and range.
Love your videos. Started follow you days ago and just saw all videos. Thanks for this content. BTW i just bought month ago a model 3 2021 SR+ and i using a lot your tips. Also I’m a track instructor from PCA and have a 911 T too. Nice to meet you.
A big Thank you to Dave for the loan of the car. I hope Ford modifies the software where you will be able to see on the screen the charging data. When Dave charged the car I got the impression that you had to stay with the car or the EA charger would shut off. If this was the case, will you be looking into this on future posts?
0% - 10:45 pm
5% = 1 min -- 10:46 pm
10% = 3 min -- 10:48 pm (3 minutes 0 - 10%)
20% = 8 min -- 10:53 pm (5 minutes 10% - 20%)
30% = 14 min -- 10:59 pm (6 minutes 20% - 30%)
40% = 19 min -- 11:04 pm (5 minutes 30% - 40%)
50% = 26 min -- 11:11 pm (7 minutes 40% - 50%)
60% = 34 min -- 11:19 pm (8 minutes 50% - 60%)
70% = 41 min -- 11:26 pm (7 minutes 60% - 70%)
80% = 49 min -- 11:34 pm (8 minutes 70% - 80%)
10% - 70% = 38 minutes
10% - 80% = 46 minutes (Bjorn's 10% - 80% test took 41 minutes.)
20% - 70% = 33 minutes
20% - 80% = 41 minutes
Obviously the peak charging rate upon first plugging in is meant to warm up the battery without damaging it and allow a higher SOC over the rest of the session. Bit weird that you can unplug and plugin and it'll keep re-peaking... maybe something Ford didn't think to check because no one should be doing this. Guess they'll have to add a heat check to ensure people don't destroy their batteries by trying to max out speed with tricks like this... At higher SOC, the pack voltage is higher, allowing less resistance and less heat generation so the peak can last a bit longer.
The slow down over 80% is fine IMO. I imagine this has nothing to do with protecting the pack and is a software limitation meant to get people to optimize their charging and not take up so much plug time. To make it even harder, EA should raise the price once a car's hit 80%. Worst case, people will keep doing it, but EA will have more money to install more plugs.
For those who don't know how to optimize charging on a long trip, this will make it abundantly clear that charging over 80% doesn't make any sense and is wasting a plug. The only issue would be if the customer needs over 80% to make it to the next plug, which isn't an issue on main routes, and won't be an issue on the lesser used routes in the near future. If the customer does want to charge over 80%, move the car off the DC fast charger to a slow charger; it'll charge at the same rate for less money and not take up the more critical DC fast charger infrastructure. EA could offer a few slow chargers at much lower rates to facilitate this. (maybe they already do?) They're MUCH cheaper units and MUCH cheaper to install.
Title's click bait ish. Kyle knows full well that charging over 80% doesn't make any sense. For those people who don't really care about the details, this title will confuse them and make them question the purchase of a perfectly capable EV.
This is very useful; even a top off from 40% to 80% SOC is only 30 minutes. And in a pinch, 5% to 30% in only 13 minutes. Agree with you, when on a roadtrip, charging up to 80% will be the norm, unless overnighting.
In Idaho I have to go above 80% to make it between superchargers. If the idea is to make that painful (here's a tip, it's already painful enough), that's not a selling point for me.
@@jonathansage2147 Does that mean you live in Idaho, or are traveling through? It depends entirely on where you're driving.
Main Idaho highways are well covered by EA. No idea if there are other charging networks in the state. If a network's charging locations rely on people charging to above 80% (about 215 miles in nicer weather), then clearly they need more chargers... and eventually they'll get them. It's still early days, networks are trying to cover the main / most used routes.
I don't think we should expect all cars to be all things for all people this early in the transition. It's ok if a car doesn't work for you, I assume OEMs with their limited production quantities want to target the higher population areas first with higher tax credit incentives and states that have ZEV/GHG credit programs that they need the EVs to offset their ICE sales. They're not going to prioritize one of the lowest population states in the nation.
@@updlate4756 I live in Idaho. I have two Model Xs, a 2021 MXP and a 2018 MX 100D. Using main routes in cold conditions there is no way to make many of the legs in Idaho without charging above 80% because the speed limit is 80 mph. And yes, the solution is more charging infrastructure, not higher range, but that doesn't exist yet.
My point is that arbitrarily and capriciously limiting the ability to charge past 80% at the max possible speed is extremely unappealing to me - especially since the MX already has better range than the Mach E and it's a problem for me.
@@jonathansage2147 Or an alternative solution is to lobby to reduce speed limits. lol. I mean, this isn't meant for you, but it just wooshes over so many peoples' heads that lower speed limits improve efficiency for both ICEs and EVs, using less fossil fuel and grid energy, and reducing overall emissions. The higher the speed limit, the more it's impossible for people to drive at lower / more efficient speeds without creating a more dangerous driving environment. In other words, people are effectively being forced to drive faster. But that's just an aside...
You say infrastructure doesn't exist yet, but neither do many vehicles with higher range. You can't really use a model X 100 as your comparison factor. Most people can't afford that vehicle, or don't want to afford that vehicle. As to cold weather range, I mean, let's be honest, Tesla's been overstating their overall highway range. Nevermind highway range in cold weather. You'd really have to wait and see what the Mach-E does in cold weather. Probably not great without a heatpump, but that's not something you model X has either yet...
I imagine Ford is doing this to ensure reliable charging access. Charging speeds slow down so much after 80% that it makes a lot more sense for the person to get off the fast charger and move to a slow charger or go to the next charger. Once plug counts grow, this won't be an issue. I could be wrong, and maybe there's a fundamental problem with Ford's battery. Not sure... Either way, the vast majority of time people won't be charging over 80%... or at least shouldn't be if they're optimizing. It's only necessary in a few low use circumstances.
I agree. It's weird they went with a timer based battery charging management instead of sensor based. Maybe it's ba cost saving feature?
Love the Mach E content (on the top of my short list of EVs to pick up, later this year) but also the hoodies. Please sir, where do you buy your hoodies they look SO COMFORTABLE.
As with any EV I'm not sure with that battery pack size unless it was necessary that charging to 100% is necessary, good to show it in a test but reality is 80% on that pack is more than adequate for most daily driving.
$29.80 and 220 miles predicted = 10 gals of gas at $2.90/gal = 22 miles per Gallon?
True, but most of your daily charging will be at home.
You have to remember that you only use the DC fast charging for the most part on long road trips. That being said the model 3/Y can charge on the Tesla superchargers from 0 - 100% in about an hour. So if this is fords answers too fast charging then they need to rethink it. Also the Tesla superchargers are cheaper then EA, in some states they’re about half as much. But once again you have to remember that you really only use public fast charging on a road trip. At home where I live it's $.06 a KW so to charge a Model 3/Y or Mach E would be less then $5.00 to charge 0 - 100%.
@@travishorrell wait for the city to raise taxes on electric bill...we paid 6% fee
@@agcoin2512 I live in Idaho falls, we make our own power. The people of the city own the power plant and we all get to vote on any changes. It’s been like that since the 1950s. Hopefully I won’t have to see it change anytime soon.
@@agcoin2512 If you are able to, solar is a good option. I have solar panels so it’s practically nothing charge both of our cars.
You say Chademo is dead, but there are a crazy number of Leafs being bought in Colorado this and last year.
Your girl is a trooper, lol 😂
This is really just an ad for a Tesla or a good PHEV if you plan on driving long distances, I haven’t seen a BEV made by someone other than Tesla that impresses me for time of charge, and of course a PHEV like the Clarity, a used 2nd gen. Volt or a Rav4Prime would give you a EV around town, and a vehicle that could do road trips with ease in hybrid mode.
@@andrewcook3292 I going to buy a BEV next but mostly for around town use, w'ell keep our PHEV for long trips, in almost every case, the recharge numbers are a best case scenario, temperature and humidity, condition of the charger, power grid restraints, and number of people charging at the same time, all come into play
Ok. It sounds like a nice plan. Just wondering. Can you delete the @ mention?
I totally disagree with Kyle on charging cost. So far my MY charging costs have averaged about 25 cents per kWh. That puts fuel cost for electric close to a car getting 30 mpg at $2.50 per gallon. 32 cents sounds very high and unacceptable to me. If you have free charging you no doubt do not care, but when paying the bill for a long trip, 7 cents a kWh adds up.
Am I the only one that finds this video shockingly bad for the #MachE? I cannot imagine being stuck at 12kW at an Electrify America station charging by the minute for the 80-100% portion for over an hour and a half. What the hell was Ford thinking? It’s not even like it charges quickly from 0-80%. It took nearly an hour. I really can’t believe Ford released a car that charges this slowly. If the Ioniq 5 is half as good as I’m hoping it will be, it’s going to be the new gold standard for charging. 5-80% in just a little over 15 minutes is legit and makes the Mach-E look like it was developed 50 years ago.
Also, why does Electrify America put two CCS connectors on each charger when there’s only one parking stall?? My biggest issue with EA is their major lack of charging stations, pricing and unreliable performance. They also have really weird locations. Here in Raleigh, I know Kyle is familiar with the Starbucks on Glenwood Ave location (why so far from the interstate???), Wake Forest Walmart (nearly 10 miles from I-540 up the most traffic logged road, Capital Blvd), the Cary EA station (again, not very fast to get to). Then there are the 300-1200 mile sections of major interstates like I-40, I-20, I-55, I-94 that do not have a single EA station, meaning travel to vast swaths of the country is impossible unless you rely on AC charging. For 99.99999% of people that’s not going to work. Those gaps and others need to filled ASAP since VW, Ford and others are now delivering mass produced, somewhat mainstream cars to the public that will have to rely on Electrify America for charging. Electrify America still has major cities like VA Beach-Norfolk, Wilmington, NC and Myrtle Beach, SC that don’t even have charging stations. We’re talking about some of the busiest tourist destinations in the country. With very few new stations seemingly under construction I don’t have any hope that Electrify America will close these gaps any time soon. That’s really the main thing that keeps Tesla in such an advatangeous position. People are going to buy a new $65,000 Mach-E just to discover they can’t make it to their favorite vacation spots without stopping overnight to charge on AC power or hoping there is some third party 50kW charging station that actually works on their route.
Thanks for this charging test. I’m a Ford stock holder since about 2010 and hope the MME becomes a success. I’m on the fence ordering a MME like this one, the 4X. The concern I have is charging time and range as I live 95 miles from the airport and really believe that for road trips I’d like to do 500 mile day in 8-10 hours. The range concern comes from seeing vlogs from the North East that have shown cold weather ranges of less than 200 and as low as 170 miles I believe. Just before I watched this test I saw your VW ID4 charging video and was very impressed, even given the smaller battery. Your road trip will be informative and hopefully the OTA software update improves the charging profile.
Can I ask you why you hold Ford stuff?
@@user-RCST Ford didn’t take a government bailout and didn’t declare bankruptcy either in the 2008-2009 timeframe.
@@bandknanacortes1858 neither did Tesla.
So Ford has basically hardcoded some values in their charging curve instead of dynamically assessing the temperature, voltage and other parameters necessary. I remember hardcoding some values in my first year college C program when I wasn't getting the desired dynamic output.
Thank you from a future Mach-E owner.
oh no..here comes all the comments about how unpractical EV's are based on the title. No one ever charges to 100 on a fast charger! People go from 20-80% (the fastest rates) and move on to the next charger. No one realistically waits 2 hours, 20 min for a restroom/snack break and good to keep driving for another 3-4 hours.
MINI Cooper SE is such a nice efficient car! Believe its built on BMW i3 platform? Just an amazing car, and It can be road tripped (Short hops, but charges from 0-100 fast) NOt as fun as something like mustang, but its possible assuming you don't have infrastructure issues.
Hopefully Ford are just being _really_ conservative with the initial top-end charging curve. Thanks for the analysis Kyle, this is the EV content we love to geek out on!
A single 92kwh for $29.80 in 2.5hrs is super sus, unreasonable, and owners taking this on a trip would be annoyed. Hopefully they fix as you say.
My problem rn. I have the Mach e premium 220 mi range and Im too embarrassed to go on a road trip considering how long it takes to charge. Might trade to the ioniq 5. Shame on Ford. & no partnership with EA either for free charging like other companies.
@@ari_gallardo94 did you? I’m in same situation I’m about to pay 5k over sticker for bad range mach e but want SEL ioniq 5 was it a good decision?
Wow thanks for this detail. I feel much better about my bolt charging speeds. We will see if they improve this for the GT.
It isn't the right way with no sensor input so I agree with what you imply. When the mach-e says 100% it still goes higher. 100 to 99% is not linear to the rest of the pack. L2 to 100% gives you 15 miles in the first 1% but the car does not have 1500 miles of range. Appears range test should be carried out with 80% SOC on this car right now.
We drove our Model 3 to Las Vegas right before the pandemic and the entire 708 mile trip cost $43.04 in super charging. That works out to about $0.06/mile. This test, if the car gets 270 miles is just over $0.11/mile and if it's 220 miles range then that's $0.13/mile. That's starting to be pretty significant.
Anyone who is considering buying this car, keep in mind that this is quite unrealistic and misleading for general ownership. Although I respect what he did for the video, there are a few items that would almost never happen for responsible owners. Allowing your car to hit 0% is terrible for the battery. I've owned my Mach E for almost 3 months now and the lowest I've gone is 10%. Please don't go much lower than that.
The temperature and charger location is also variable. Since he was at near freezing temperatures, charging is slower. At EA I consistently get 140+kwh.
Charging at any EA station no matter what car you drive, it will slow down after 80% which was the most misleading issue I've seen so far. First, you do not want to charge to 100% unless you're going on a long trip but even if you do, I'm sure you can charge to 80% at each station and save yourself 2 hours for 20%. That goes for any new EV. The vast majority of the time you will only need to fast charge for 20-40 minutes.
I don't have a charger at home because of my insane HOA in LA but I get by perfectly fine with free fast charging all over the place. I bought the 300 mi range premium RWD and I'm consistently getting an average of 340+ miles range. I don't drive like a speed demon and I mainly keep it in whisper mode.
I highly recommend to anyone, especially those who are thinking about getting a model X or Y. It's a fun vehicle, easily the best looking EV and it the interior is far better than any other car I test drove before I bought this.
Bjorn said you can reconfigure the charging. Of the car to charge faster, and remarked it should be made to go to that mode or default to charge automatically . He has done a lot on the Ford check them out.
So at 80% you may as well switch to L2.
I think it does that to protect the battery
Thanks for some great information for an EV newbie. Would love to see this same test on the new Bolt EUV.
Bolt EUV I presume will charge exactly the same as the 2020 Bolt EV as it uses the exact same battery setup. Bolt EUV should pull 150A constant till about 55% SOC (46KW a very low SOC then slowly climbs to about 56KW as pack voltage increases) then slowly start to ramp down with the ramp accelerating down after 70% SOC.
@@erikstephens34 Thank you so much!
Great review. I’m not sure if I agree with Ford in the way they manage their charging rates. Did Ford engineering give any insights on their reasoning behind their schemes? Can you describe how they are managing the battery pack thermal management? BTW, how are you getting your hands on these EV’s? Are you buying them? Loaners? Thanks!
This one is a loaner from EV Dave. It is a production model (bought off a dealer lot).
Dave also has a youtube channel (mostly focused on Teslas currently, though will likely expand to other EVs in the future). Link to his channel is in the video description.
Great video. $29 and if you do that twice a you’re looking at 60 bucks a week. So $240 a month. People need to know how much it cost to charge at public charging stations as it will not always be free. Plus it’s bad for the battery to use them all the time. I stay away from charging stations and charge at home.
Kyle, this is super informative. Have you thought about having some of these companies hire you as a consultant to help them optimize their charging curves & efficiency? If it’s a question of software, the likes of Ford, VW, Volvo, Polestar, Jaguar, Rivian, and so on (not Tesla ‘cause they got it all figured out, right? LOL) could gain a lot from this kind of data
Exactly!
Sounds like they set the software to encourage all charge planning to be between 20 and 80%. My etron kills its DC fast between 15% and 80% 10k miles and everytime I travel I can charge between those windows
I want an EV, but I did not realize it would take 2.5hrs to charge and cost me $40 bucks for at best 300 miles.
That assumes you will use fast DC charging for the majority of your needs (and you might). Most people will usually charge at home or at work where the cost of providing a full charge will be considerably less. Ranges from $4-8 per full tank depending on the cost of electricity where you live.
I charge at home most of the time. Saving over 200 in gas each month, including electricity cost.
Plus I find free charging. Like places we stay or certain stores have free charging.
@@SeanCaldwellvo Your estimated price range is a bit narrow. Where I live (in So. Cal.), home charging to go 270 miles would cost $20-25, but the gasoline at 26 mpg would cost over $38 @ the current price of about $3.70 per gallon.
Thanks. Very interesting....and disappointing. I reserved a MME and am looking forward to receiving it in a few weeks. Looks like Tesla knows battery management, but can’t build cars well. Ford can build cars well, but doesn’t know battery management. Hopefully each company will get better with their respective weaknesses. I hope Ford can improve my car’s charging capabilities with OTA updates. I don’t know if I trust that they will do so. They are a legacy car manufacturer and their strategy in the past is to try to sell me a new car every 3-5 years because of planned obsolescence. I hope they don’t do that with the MME.
Great video looking forward to the future charging sessions and your road trip.
The cost of charging seems high to me. You are correct it is cheaper than the per minute fee. But even with this it cost you more to get 250 miles of range then I would spend in my Toyota hybrid to get the same number of miles. Significantly different. At $2.75 per gallon. I would have spent $19 to go 250 MI.
Doesn't really seem like a great deal, of course there's the lower maintenance cost with an EV. But it would be interesting to do the comparison.
I do all my own maintenance on my own car. Fuel all fluids and maintenance and tires cost me 7 cents per mile.
That’s basically half the cost of gas for 425 miles in a U-Haul Chevy van this weekend
They are a bit more pricey compared to DC charging with EV go or Chargepoint. I do appreciate the amount of stations EA has which is great, but I almost always have an issue with one of their stations. Chargepoint has always had the least amount of issue for me
Idk why but I can't get enough of charging videos. Such an aesthetic
At the moment highly subsidized gasoline makes charging at Electrified America a regular EV like Ford Mustang Mach E featured in the video look like extremely expensive. However, doing the math it turns out that with real world of 275 miles range Mach E costs 29.2$ to charge. It needs to spend a dollar per 9.42 miles driven. The national USA average price of gas is 2.77$. For one dollar the driver of a PHEV like recently featured on this channel BMW X5 PHEV can buy 0.36 gallons of gas. According to EPA being rated at 20 MPG that car when battery is depletted can drive 7.22 miles for the same dollar. Making the ratio it turns out the driver of Mach E has to spend on "fuel" the same amount of money as a ICE driver with a car rated at 26 MPG which is close to money spent by somebody driving a Volvo XC90 PHEV rated 27 MPG while battery is depletted. If the charging speed is going to improve charging will get close enough to the the time spent filling the tank with gasoline.
Conclusion:
1.With decent charging speed and discontinuation of gasoline subsidies even costly Electrify America will make financial sence for fast charging EVs.
The proof of my words come in a video on TFL channel when Tesla Model 3 using supercharging network costed only some cents more than using gasoline in colorado mountains to drive a AWD Toyota Prius the same distance up in mountains and back downhill.
And in that case Prius is rated 52-55 MPG.
2. On longer than 700 miles trip on Alex on Autos channel Mach E has shown comparable charging time to the best new EVs on the market.
Makes me appreciate the 2 or 3 minutes I spend once a week putting fuel in my car.
You never DC fast charge to 100% anyway. You charge to 70-85% depending on the car and off you go. The SUVs Audi E-Tron and E-Tron Sportback charge quite fast over 80% tho. Takes 10 seconds to plug in at the AC wallbox at home where you can start with a full "tank" every day. 20 seconds to plug in at a fast charger and scan the RFID. On longer trips you plug in and go to the restroom, stretch your legs and maybe grab some food while you charge for 20-40 minutes. I prefer the EV over the petrol car every day. The petrol car doesen't have an app for preheating during winter or cooling befor you go during summer either.
@@christianolsen2192 True. I suppose we will have to adjust to a new system in general. It’ll take some getting used to but will feel very normal in time.
@@anthonywalker6168 I think the battery packs will be different in the next 5-10 years also 🙂 Lighter, less minerals and materials used, and more dependable and faster charging. Some cars are very fragile to low or high temperatures. Like the Nissan Leaf (especially the 40kWh) who doesen't have active cooling. The battery pack is almost cooking after a longer trip with several fast charging sessions. Or how slow charging might be on cars without battery heater during winter. I respect that the EV's of today isn't for everyone. But in a few years I think the issues with charging will be long gone 🙂
@@christianolsen2192 That tired crap of "starting with a full tank every morning" only works if you are always at home and not out in the real world doing anything else. Newsflash, you aren't always at home.
Great stuff! Yes, please do more tests on Mach-E and I.D 4
Hopefully they update the curve if they havent yet, thats too slow. My LFP M3 doesn’t have impressive numbers on paper but in practice it charges really quickly.
Nice job. Appreciate the hard work. Subscribed!
I *love* the looks of this vehicle. The amount of time to recharge EVs is waaaaay to long though. Especially when you are pressed for time to get to destinations far enough away where you have to recharge it on the road. I hope the time to charge tech gets better. If/when it does, I am in. Until then, I will watch these videos & drool over the car.
Thanks for the very informative video. I had a feeling, based on other videos from other folks, that this was going to be the case. I'm still very impressed with the speed my E-tron charges......I was hoping this was going to be the same way......maybe Ford will update this over the air in the future? Just the 0-50% was a ridiculous time for me as the Etron has me spoiled.....although I must not forget all the time I spent at chargers with the Bolt.....speaking of which, I'm definitely looking forward to you testing the Bolt EUV
“thermal strategy” sounds like a consultant made it up. It should ramp dynamically like you said. The 20-80 is the most important test, please do that one first! 👍
My family has a Chevy Bolt currently and a Mach-E on the way, and in all honesty, with prices like that to fill up from 0-100%, I simply wouldn’t road trip an electric car. I’d rather have a fuel efficient hybrid that’ll go 500 miles for same price. If we want to get more people feeling comfortable about buying electric cars, charging prices have to be low as in $.20 per kWh.
Ouch! Thanks for telling the truth.
I only here the 0-50 or 85% all the time.
You should plot the charging curve on a graph. Would be much easier to compare different EVs that way.
This seems very expensive. I road trip in California (expensive rates) never spent more that $25 to fill up my model 3 performance. Seems a slow charge. I realize that Tessa is way ahead of the game, but Road tripping in that mustang must be rough 😬. Not to be negative though, I think it’s great that there’s more chargers and more EV is on the road, just glad I went with Tesla.