Oliver 1650 Diesel Tractor - Hard Start / No Start
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- čas přidán 14. 09. 2019
- This Oliver tractor doesn't like to start. Sometimes it will start with ether, sometimes it won't start at all. Can we fix it? I bet we can!
See Ivan tangle with an Oliver: • No Crank No Start: 196... - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Just a note to let you know how much Iike your channel. I'm an old mechanic and admire your intelligence and "jack of all trades "common sense and ability. Most of all, I just feel good watching a little slice of you and your family life. Ya"ll came from the type of good folks that built this nation and I smile to see you continue the job. All the best to you and yours.
Just a follow up since many people have been asking. I had the fuel tank cleaned at a local radiator repair shop. The tractor has been running great. The manifold heater does work. The tractor starts fine without ether, even in the colder weather.
Wes, I really enjoy watching your videos! Congratulations on finding the metering valve sticking!
I was a bit concerned that you hadn’t cleaned the tank, lines and everything else fuel supply related once you found the sludge buildup. But after reading your update, my faith is restored - haha. I’m sure the customer was very pleased with your work and troubleshooting! Hopefully he’ll check all his other diesel and equipment. Thanks for another great video and the update comment.
Awesome
Its diesel algae, i ran in to it with my first 5 ton m818 tractor army truck. I took 5 gals of brake parts cleaner in each 55 gal fuel tank, strapped them into the back of my daily driver pickup and drove around town for a week. The following weekend I pulled the drain plugs on the tank and basically made the tanks have diarrhea. Afterwards the tanks where spotless and new looking on the inside of the tanks.
Also check the fuel lines because the algae can from in the fuel supply lines and plug up the fuel supply lines just like celestial in an array. Also check to see if the fuel screen on or in the pump is clean as well. The algae will plug up the screen that supplies low pressure fuel to the high pressure fuel pump for the injectors. Run a heavy dose of algar-a-side threw the engine and that will clear all of the from the pump and fuel system. Down side is you will have to replace your fuel filter because its going to catch all that loose crap you nocked loose from every last surface it was stuck too.
P.S. my girlfriends uncle still runs all Oliver's on his farm.
@@nickslistm246 Algae? Good grief, in FUEL? Life surely does 'spring up' lol
@@mdouglaswray technical isn't not true algae its just a bacteria that lives in the water in the fuel tank that feeds off of the diesel fuel and multiplies over time till it coats the tank walls and everything associated. But everyone calls it diesel algae.
At 4:11, I have never seen a siphoning move like that before. Genius!
If you are interested: 1. The manifold heater solenoid isn't working or the contacts are trashed. You should hear a click when the button is pushed. You can sometimes pull apart the relay and sand the contacts, this will make the solenoid work better. 2. To clean out the gas tank, the best way is to take it to a radiator shop and have it cleaned out because they chemically clean out radiators this way - a radiator tank is basically the same as a diesel tank. Street rod guys do this all the time when restoring old gas tanks. This is the best method to use if there is rust in the tank, because they (usually) have a coating to seal up and deactivate rust and even seals some pinhole leaks if they are really bad. However, you can clean it at home using Muriatic Acid (weak Hydrochloric acid) which is what they use to clean boilers with. Most (older) hardware stores carry this. Be careful not to get any on your skin. You should clean out the lines as well, because they can clog up with algae also. 3. There is really no difference electrically between charging two 6 volts in series or charging a 12 volt battery - but it may charge the batteries faster if done separately. If there is a difference, it is in the cable connecting the two batteries in series or in the amount of electrolyte in them. If you charge your batteries separately, they will charge faster because the battery charger produces more current on 6 volts than on 12 but that is only true because the charger is under less load. This isn't necessarily a good thing, more current means more heat, which kills battery life. It is better to charge the the batteries in series even though it takes longer, the lower current will make them last longer.
"Needed an expert, so I called my dad" XD
Good job.
Don't be a dad that's not an expert. It's very depressing for your sons.
I really enjoy watching his videos. I love that he's quick to admit he's stumped :) Can't imagine why anyone would post a thumbs down on his videos. Super nice guy and seems to enjoy what he does. No foul language.
Yes ! he deserves to do well ;-)
I really enjoy your videos and appreciate your language. I can watch it w/ the kids playing in the background playing and don't have F bombs flying every other second. Keep the great content coming!!
A fellow named Mustie1 makes videos like this.
He says the same thing as you. “I can’t believe how many people watch this stuff”
I think it funds his life these days. Your on a winner, keep it up.
Yes you both do...
Mustie1 is my hero
Seriously? Riding off into the sunset? Fabulous.
Love watching your videos. As a fellow mechanic I like your diagnostic approach to issues in this job and others. I work on mostly construction equipment and trucks for a local company but have old tractors of my own as well. Its 9 on a Friday night and I'm at home watching mechanical videos. Gearhead for life I guess. Keep up the good wok
Success! Don’t you love it when a plan comes together! This is why guys like fixing stuff, it is possible unlike trying to get your wife to run.
I just found your site. I’m totally impressed getting that fuel problem fixed. Your a very smart young man! Thanks much for sharing.
Around here the local shop that rebuilds radiators also steam cleans fuel tanks.
Nice to live in an area with tractors being commons on the roads.
Thank you for taking us along with you for this repair, telling us where to look and what to look for.
Called to a brand new Clark diesel fork truck years back. No start every morning but every time during the day. After several days of bleeding fuel system and injectors, I stripped all the pipework from tank to injector pump, reassembled it and put a vac gauge on. Wouldn't hold vac, checking every fitting and o ring found one of the brass fuel elbows had a huge gouge on the JIC taper face of the elbow. Threw some PTFE tape and thread paste on it and refitted system, primed up and started. Started every time at any time since. New elbow fitted under warranty on the next service.
Very impressed with you trouble deduction methods. Keep up the good work
Excellent video I learned something every time I watch even if I don't set out to learn something when I watch a video.! Please keep up the good work. Well done
Just started watching the channel, great stuff, very interesting listening to your thought process while problem solving. I’m hooked now and watching previous fixes 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 thanks for taking the time and effort to put these on CZcams
So Happy I found your channel- Your a great guy, Love the logic and the way you explain it. You are not the typical mechanic that curse's and has the armpit beard. Keep it up.
telling my friends that are mechanical to watch your channel.
When does draining a fuel tank not involve a ‘janky funnel setup’ ? Covid is letting me get deep into your videos - great stuff Wes
The man has STYLE, doesn't he? The way he reacts cracks me up. Also, he's f-ing FEARLESS about taking complicated shit apart (wife's suv dash) and then MAKING IT WORK AGAIN. woot. I don't care WHICH 'house' he's from, he gets the points.
When I watch you work on tractors it makes me wish I grew up on a farm. Man those things are cool.
Never too late Hans, learning how old tractors run is fun and easy with any mechanical inclination.
Great video Wes, those old Olivers were great tractors!
I like watching you work... You have great knowledge in diesel engine. Hats off to your father..
Great video! My experience with this type of pump, when you remove the cover it should be full of fuel. Just static filling the pump by gravity from the tank. The side shafts you removed have seals when they go bad the fuel will drip past these seals and drain the tank, if you don’t shut off the fuel. If these leak ( didn’t look like it) or any other leaks down stream and you constantly forget to shut the fuel off the leaking fuel can transform into another substance. Also evaporation/ exposure to oxygen can transform the diesel. My experience is a tractor used daily hardly ever has these issues but a barn queen will see it often. Thanks for the channel.
I LOVE THIS!! Success!!! Goes to show you the old machines are worth putting time and money into. To be able to pick up an old machine for cheap and revive it and get work out of it saves so much money!
Icky! Flush that fuel system. GREAT WORK spotting it quickly and very targeted repair. Nicely done. Love to hear those engines running!!
Looks like a nice old tractor , good job !
I love these old 50’s and 60’s mechanical diagrams.
Watching you work I think your diagnostic skills will just get better, and, better as they should. Doc Mike USN
Always interesting Wes thanks for sharing 👍🇦🇺
Wes I ran into this stuff in a four wheeler tank and gasoline does not affect it at all. It will get on your hands and you cant get it off. Well, along comes the wife and she says wash your hands with this Fabuloso. I had never seen this stuff before but man does it work. I went to Gen.Dol. and bought a gallon for 6 bucks poured the whole gallon into the tank and mixed water with it to fill up the tank. I left it sit overnite and next morning I just poured it all out. I rinsed it out with some more of the mixture, rinsed that out with clean water and dried it out with air from vacuum cleaner. Sometimes, the wife is good for something!!!!!
Hi Chris here from England. Your weather seems the same as here in Southern England except I am one road from seafront with all the salt air. Love this video. Your dad is a great source of Knowledge. I build motorbikes from scratch in my retirement so have to go by parts manuals and Haynes manuals. Keep up the good work
I like that tractor. It’s in good shape.
Interesting, I was on the edge of my seat as the issues kept getting bigger. Glad you didn't have to rebuild the pump.
Yeah me too. These pumps are very reliable though. Usually the only thing that fails is the timing advance and external fuel leaks.
I’m surprised they didn’t deliver it without the loader Enjoy your videos as always. It’s easier y to watch you work then actually work.
I'm impressed you didn't complain about the loader and hoses and lack of access.
Great Job Wes!
So glad to hear you got that tank cleaned out at the rad shop. that would have only caused many more problems in the future!!
Thumbs up 👍 thanks for the ride.
Rides and shifts smoother than my truck lol great vids
Good Job 👍 Love Your Videos, Keep It Up Pal
I have never seen a siphon technique like that wow that was cool.
It has probably been stated before but the Oliver tractor was nobody's poor man tractor. They were a premium tractor and priced very high. They were also one of the most advanced tractors of their time. We ran IHC's, JD's and Oliver's and the Oliver tractor was certainly as good or better than the others.
Remember there is a screen above glass sediment bowl and a pick up tube screen.
Often overlooked.
Also one on mechanical fuel pumps like Perkins and on that lift pump.
Also often overlooked.
Excellent work Thanks
Great idea starting that siphon, I've never seen that before.
The siphon has a check valve built into it. You can find one in any decent hardware store. They work well for thin fluids like fuel or water. Here is a link: amzn.to/2O1JKPN
Wes Johnson Services check valve, that makes more sense, for a minute there, I thought my eyes were lying to me.
Heh. Magic I guess.
They sure are amusing to watch when a guy is trying to siphon out of a car gas tank and is having a difficult time...
So much for the saying "If you shake it more than twice, youre playing with it." You could be just trying to get the thing to siphon.
I love your work.
Very cool, Thanks for bringing us along. You may like Derek from Vice Grip Garage.
A guy would like to slap a turbo on her & give it the onions. The right thing to do is cleanalate that pump thingy, so I'm not doing that. I'm gonna dump a can of Berryman in the tank and let it rip. That should get it to Run like factttree.
It's fine.
Got a Cockshutt 1550 with the same symptoms, but lots of fuel flow, right to the return line on the top of the pump.... it's GOTA be that metering/stop stuff.... thanks for the GREAT VIDEO !!!!!
Had much the same problem on a Massey. HP plungers gummed up. Pump room guy cleaned with some thinners or test solvent to free up. Happy after that. Good exercise Wes. I Like the detail in those old manuals too.
Dude! I love the "jiggle siphon"!
Marshal......I first saw one of these in Oregon in the 50's. It had a marble in the line with a washer in one side. Lift it up the marble blocked the washer pulling the fuel up and quickly push back down and it captures that fuel each time you go up and down.
Great Video! If in the next several years and continues to start a run, I'll leave the fuel tank alone. Otherwise I take it off and wash it out. Great analysis of why it didn't start without either.
I would agree with your no start theory. Enjoyed the video
You should be impressed with your skills and give your self some credit when you get a machine started and running again. Most people can't even jump start a vehicle. I know that when I get an engine running again I feel super awesome. I've had several projects that were non runners like motorcycles and trucks that I've got running again. I got a brand new pressure washer free because it was returned to the store I use to work at, they decided not to send it back to the manufacturer, all I know is it doesn't run and nobody has even looked at it. I have no doubt I can get it running when I have a chance to look at it. I just started watching your channel and I think it rocks.
The last one i had that problem with i cleaned the fuel system like you did but when it came to the injection pump i loaded it with stanadyne fuel treatment. Then brushed it around and vacuumed it out. And loaded it again , capped it off and fired it up . Maybe i got lucky but so far so good. Nice video , step by step.
Great tractor. Video too. My uncle had a 1600 Diesel I used on his dairy farm.
Great video. We had a couple of 1555s gasers and an 1800 diesel. I still have a soft spot for Olivers.
Well done that shop manual it the best one I've ever seen.
Yes. It’s a John Deere manual. Very thorough.
Loved the video. I could listen to this guy all day. I have one comment. If the engine is running on biodiesel the gooey.material could be vegetable oil that's decomposing. You might be able to flush the fuel system with methanol. Just a half baked thought.
Nice work!
All excellent observations, undoubtedly dirt/gunk issue. Never hurts to just look at the pump timing marks compared to flywheel or dampener marks, just to be absolutely sure.
I've been welding fuel tanks for years! All you need to do is open the tank at the seam clean it then wire weld it back at the seam again as long as you put water in the tank your golden!!
Any old tank of diesel is likely to have Algae growing in it... get a bottle of Bioclean to kill and thin out all that Algae. Lots of it in this old Tractor. Cool to see the old manuals :-) When opening up that pump with the snot on the springs and such... a bit of clean diesel with bioclean right in the chamber there for a bit of a soak. Gets like glue. Great video.
Good hypothesis, as close as I could figure as well. Gave it run time until the valve could slowly open. Ivan would be proud.
Over 30 years ago Ford sold a truck here in the UK that was so bad at starting it actually had an Ether (easy start) injector system in the cab. I can't remember the model but it could transport three horses, so a medium sized truck.(6 cylinder diesel) I got it dirt cheap for a friend of mine who wanted to move some heavy stuff. When he stripped the engine down he found that all the piston rings were cracked. That's the problem with Ether, it buggers your engine! He replaced all the rings and got great service from that truck. I'm sure that after that he went really easy with the Ether :)
Nice video!
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my comment. Watching your CNC milling video tells me that you have a tremendous technical and mechanical skillset. I look forward to future videos. I did watch Ivan at Pine Hollow work on the Oliver tractor and was surprised that the wiring set up didn't smoke the diodes in the alternator. I assume that tractor had a generator and was converted. I am in the process of converting my 1970's IH 354 (gas) as the voltage regulators are un adjustable (Lucas, but made in India) . Happy new year Craig
Right. The tractor was originally positive ground and was converted when they switched to an alternator.
Man I'm impressed with several things I've seen in you your video's being smart enough to ask for help but not expecting someone to come do it for you . hell i was surprised you got the engine spinning before spraying the either you would be amazed how many folks in this business don't know to do that . I heard you say this runs Bio diesel that type of build up is common a big reason you can't run it in new EPA style engines
Dang, you should scan all those manual and sell them online, i'm sure zillion will look for that, nice work as usual
HI ! I bought the same tractor and it was allways hard to start so now I use a little shot of starting liquide and after 5 or 6 rounds it start in winter I fixed an heater-block and after pluged 15 minutes it start verry well but do not forget the liquie starter!!
I'm an old guy of 75. I prefer to just deal with a carburetor! This not progress in my opinion. Love your video's since I always learn something. I deal mostly with old motorcycles and Cushman motor scooters. But I sill enjoy what you do.
That turned into quite a project. But she sounds good. I was always an Oliver fan, because that is what I grew up on.
We have several in the family. Always liked them too.
We had a Oliver 2150 and a 1850 both were a pain in the ass to get started every spring. They didn't like cold weather at all. We ran a ford 9000 year round. I'm from up state ny. We had cold winter's when I was young. The Ford never gave us much trouble. We all ways had tinker with the Oliver's. Good tractors when they cooperated and ran right
Pre-combustion engines are very hard to start in cold weather. The newer direct injection engines work a lot better.
Excellent job on that fuel pump man grads
I think you're on to it, could also be that the air in the lines up by the injectors was having a hard time pushing through the system with the low pressures generated just by cranking alone. That ether probably gave it pumping pressure to work through and like you said, get the meter to move where it needed to be. I love your videos man keep them coming!
Yeah that’s in line with my thinking.
With Roosa-master fuel pump, mounted horizontally, crack at least two injector lines on the top side of the pump, preferably at the injector end. When you have good supply of fuel, To the pump, check fuel shut-off (electric or mechanical) and crank engine with full throttle until some smoke at exhaust. Tighten up the loosened injector lines. Do Not use starting fluid with preheat! If it doesn't work properly, will not rev up, particularly, be sure that excess /return line is not restricted, it will cause strange things. Roosa-master pumps will operate flawlessly with gravity supply, but it must be free flowing. Any water reaching the pump is catastrophic. Remove timing inspection plate on the side of the pump, and be sure that the pump hasn't seized and twisted off the drive. It only takes a drop or two of water to seize the pump. Never use ether, if you don't have white smoke at the exhaust. Good luck, but I can't watch this all the way through. Been there, seen it all before.
Something else I would like to add to your excellent procedure is that I believe there is a gauze filter just below the big nut on the fuel inlet pipe It’s always worth a look inside there first before you go diving into the top of the pump
Another great video!
Thank you!
Nice job again Wes! That sticky gunk in the tank must have worked down into the pump and gummed up the metering valve. I would bet, in another 50 years, the owner will have the same problem.(IF that fuel tank isn’t replaced or cleaned)👍
Great video. Stay safe
Great video. I struggled with you to figure out what was wrong. I agree the starting fluid cleared some sort of air/vapor lock. I know very little about diesel engines , but what I learned about my ford f-350 with 7.3 engine is that if you use starting fluid disconnect the glow plug relay. No risk of engine catastrophic explosion. The engine fires up even at 20 below within 2 seconds with just 1/2 second spray. Easy to do. Five of my glowplugs need to be replaced but its too friggin cold here in Vermont to do it outside at this time of year. I will use the starting fluid and will replace to glowplugs this spring, Thank you. Craig
Those 7.3 glow plugs are pretty easy. It's a bit of a pain to get the passenger side valve cover off, but still pretty easy. The 6.0s are a pain. At least where I live the harness will almost always be corroded and snap off in the head. Then you have to pull the inner fenders and chisel them out. I've always heard they will start OK with 2 bad plugs. 3 or more and they won't usually go when it's cold.
I think you have a very good tractor . and deserves more time spent cleaning the fuel system . from tank to rain cap.
You mentioned bio diesel; I would concerned with that chocolate Carmel stuff in your tank. If it is French fry residue I’d think twice on continuing using that stuff.
As for the reason that Bessie finally started your exactly right by my estimation. Love your channel.
More pls. Makes me wanna buy an old tractor and fix it up.
In my experience you have to bleed the pump, and not by turning the engine over, only by the hand pump, of coarse everything has to be super clean first, great videos.
boy i hate pulling the loaders off, but i hate working around stuff too. you're a bigger man then me, i would have got it to barely run (on ether if needed) to get that loader off..
like others said.. Gas will clean it. ah there's always next time.
Thanks for the hint on the no abrasives on the parts in that pump, i really don't have much experience with the rotary pumps..
Hey if you ever want to come to Washington for a few days, i got a 8.1 Detroit that i need to do all the injectors for that same sticky mess, well not as bad, but doesn't idle very well until it warms up, ten they free up..
Hey maybe I should do like you, and put some of dumb stuff i do on here, the whole filming thing and editing seems like a pain.. so thank you for taking that extra time. I do enjoy watching you work.
Wes I know this is an old video but here is a tip for you guys. If you have access to electricity grab a heat gun like you use to thaw frozen pipes turn it on highest setting and stick it in the intake of the engine. Wait a minute or two then try to start engine. Now you have more heat going into engine and forced air induction.
Great video I have a 2-70 ,hard enough to start too.
100% agree, The engine startup vibrations are what rattled things in the injection pump into working order. The ether just set things in motion. In Theory you probably could have got it to start by 'Tappy tap tapping' on the pump while cranking it, but given the access that looked to not be an option. For some reason I'm very found of the Cat 3208 injection pump, its appearance, and functionality. I also recall the 'horror' of getting the new to me 7.3 power stroke home from auction and not being able to find an injection pump, nothing but wires on the accelerator pedal, and slowly realizing what I must have purchased.. (Love it now, but oh that first day was an eye opener)
Yeah the old IDI Fords had a regular rotary injection pump. But the PowerStroke is a different kettle of fish.
Mate had a farm in the old days , every vehicle he ever owned ,tractors trucks cars ,we're all wiped over with diesel ,washed once a year,, and then Re wiped with diesel ! When he died we had to wash all the vehicles down and get ready for them to sell they came up like brand new!!!
It's ok Wes, what's a 1/16" amongst friends...oh rounded corners...never mind. I always drew the line working in the rain, actually had to explain to the home owner that rain rusted my tools and could get me sick. He didn't understand...too bad see you when the sun comes out. Nice video, thumbs up.
I just subscribed, great vid and channel. I spent many hours on a Cockshutt 1750, the later bigger brother to that tractor. They were bought by cockshutt at one point but I think they kept the oliver name a little longer in the US than other places.
There's a video about a Brit somewhere that downed one of those pumps and cleaned and rebuilt it right at home and everything ran fine. Wished he was there to help.
Looks like algae. Take a trip to your local walmart and get an additive to keep it clear once you clean the tank.
Must be an Iowa farmer , i'm from Ottumwa, Iowa...!!! Had an 1800 Oliver and a 1900 with a 453 Detroit , loud but powerful and of course a 1466 IH...!!! Farm-Out...!!!
I had a international 2606 backhoe that did that.. except it was a gas burner. All the rust would settle at the bottom of the tank and naturally go to the sediment bowl inlet... one day I took a empty 270 cartridge, cut the small end off, and hammered it on the inlet if the sediment bowl so it raised it an inch or so off the bottom of the tank. So if anything was gonna go thru the lines itd have to be floating.. and it ran fine!
I think I would have pulled it in the garage at the first run. Enjoyed the video.
Yeah I would have left it inside if I had known it wasn't going to start again. My crystal ball was broken...
nice job! i think you're correct with your theory on the starting fluid as well. Ive been into the roosa master pump on my 310g to do the governor ring and reseal it and it wasnt bad of a job. My backhoe has a fuel problem with it now. the system will loose prime so i have to let the electric pump run for a few seconds until i hear it load up and then i can crank it to start. i haven't looked into what's the issue yet but nothing is leaking externally and the injectors are rebuilt
My experience with the rotary pumps from Roosemaster or CAV has just been external leaks and the flyweights for the timing advance. They seem very reliable.
Hey had an idea may be pressure hose the Tank ,until all the "GUNK" is out , may be a gallon of Diesel to rinse tank and let it dry outside in the 24 deg Celsius then put in two more gals
then make sure you bleed lines then hopefully BINGO . (good to see you fixed the problem already ) ENJOY YOUR RIDE YE HAH .
That sure looked like a John Deere tech manual you were using! Once the pump starts to spin good the governor weights will help to assist in moving the spool valve. Likely why a little snort would get it whipping enough to get running. Lots of corrosion in that pump. That fuel has for sure at some point had a lot of water in it. We use a steam power washer at work to clean out the fuel tanks. Run the John Deere keep clean and fuel protect additives and it does wonders for keeping the systems in good shape especially should you wind up with some not so great fuel.
I have a hot water pressure washer. But I think I will let it go for now. I scooped out the big chunks and I don't think the rest will really hurt anything. Yes, it's a Deere service manual.
Watching you clean that fuel tank I was thinking of my trick. A few house hold chemicals, simple green, clr, and gas and about 4 bags of glass marbles. Take the tank off and just rock it back and forth and all around.
Nice save.