No nonsense frame and flat panel cabinet doors
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- čas přidán 18. 04. 2020
- You'll learn a lot in the next seven minutes.
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There may be a tendency to want to cover more complicated projects, but with the stay at home situation we are now in, that may not be possible due to lack of staff. I really appreciate these short and quick videos covering very specific items. Not like going through the whole process of building the entire cabinets. No matter how long we have been doing these projects, every so often, someone else shows us something new (to us). Keep up the good work.
An old video, but well worth the view and tips you give. I'm a fan of using 1/2" panels over 1/4"... they just feel and sound more solid, besides the benefit of extra rigidity. 1/4" panel doors sound "tinny" and cheap to me.
My only add is if you are building many doors, then investing in a coping sled is worth it. A decent one can had for under $100 and you don't need an expensive fancy one. It holds the rails with a clamp, reducing the need to place your hands close to the bit and ensures an accurate cut. I have a Fulton Pro that cost me $70 or you could make one yourself.
I've made thousands of frame and panel doors. (I ran the door crew at a furniture mill to help put myself through college.) Let me say, this video does a very good job showing the process of making such doors. The tips are excellent. One quibble: I suggest ripping the styles and rails slightly over-width and routing the profiles BEFORE ripping to final width. With most profiles, there is plenty of material to run against a table saw fence. This lets you rip away any tearout from the coping cut. It also lets you fine tune the width of the rails and styles. Sometimes -- despite your best efforts -- the profiling cut will take off 1/32" or so of width. That's 1/16" of width for the door and 1/8" for a pair of doors. Ripping to final width after the profile has been cut just makes things simpler.
Working in a door and window factory I can agree. This is exactly how we do it. Our stiles are also left long and our rails are left wide. That way we can trim the top and bottom perfectly to size and then use a jointer to size the stiles if necessary
@@danlay3126, that's a great extra tip for a novice like me. Thanks!
As an amateur I agree. My first doors were overlay for my shop - small errors did not matter. I quickly learned that slight over sizing both width and height and then trimming to final size when finished resulted in perfect fit for inset doors. Since I stained, glue squeeze out on the top edge was not a problem.
Great tip, thanks
Love your no nonsense approach and real talk Stumpy! I always look forward to your videos and thanks for this one.
I don't have those bits, yet; so, I'm doing simple stub tenon joinery. I think it a good thing to remember that the rails have to be exactly the right length. I goofed on my first set because I used a 3/8" groove but cut my rails a 1/4" short and there was only enough length for 1/4" tenons. That would have left an 1/8" gap inside the grooves. I forgive myself here as it was my first go at making cabinet doors. I'll be able to use the rails for another project. There are no goofs, just learning experiences. Keep safe and healthy, James, and everyone else.
There are definitely channels that are more flashy, but no other channel gives me the confidence in woodworking that I get from watching your tutorials. Love the details. Keep it up.
Aside from what the titles suggest, I learn something unexpected and very useful from every episode. Today's hidden gem "tilt the rail inwards to prevent random glue egress". This can be used on so many projects. Thanks always for sharing, cheers from BC!
James, I consider myself to be an accomplished woodworker with a bit higher than intermediate skill set. I’ve been a fan of your channel for quite some time and always found your approach to woodworking a refreshing and pleasurable balance of logic, efficiency, practicality and just the right dose of fundamental reinforcement. Having watched probably all of your videos (some several times), this is one that I will be saving to a list for future reference. You could easily have made this into a dozen different videos on the tips alone, and there’s so much beneficial content in this video that is so brief that it can be like drinking water through a fire hose. Excellent video. Thanks bud!
James, you are a great resource of information. I’ve made dozens of panel doors and still picked up a couple of useful tips here.
The most important piece here is that you need a backer for your pieces. I built cabinets for my parents-in-laws guest bath 30 years ago. Every time I excuse myself to attend to the loo, I see the results of NOT having a backer piece. It's a good cabinet. But it could have been great with the proper backer. So to all my stay at home, working during COVID compatriots who watch out dear friend SN, MAKE A PROPER BACKER. And then if you haven't, subscribe to this nice lad. He does an outstanding job. Wood_fly out.
Another hint-and-tip filled video. Thanks for keeping it concise and avoiding the obvious. 👌
Thanks James, I definitely see some cabinet doors in my future. Also I’ve had a master plate from master gauge for years, really helps to dial in my unisaw !
Great information James, good reminder if it’s been a while since making any doors. 👍👍. Fred
Good idea about pushing squeezeout outwards. Best to polish the frame before gluing and squeeze out. That avoids staining. Applies to wood around any joint.
As Usual, a lot to learn from you. Good teacher. Thank you
Love my raised panel mitered doors because I don't paint but really like your idea for the simpler side. Nice vid for quickies
Great video. I'm a self-taught woodworker many years before CZcams. I build the doors in almost exactly same way as you show. I'm one of those that cut the cope on the end of the rail before cutting the dados for exactly reason you mention, it cleans up the cut out. I'm in the process of building twelve 28"x26" doors right now, using poplar. I finished all the rails and stiles last night, now I just have to do the panels. You're comment about poplar vs maple is probably correct, but I don't think I could bring myself to paint maple!
Great tips! I'm ready to give it a go myself now. Thank you.
Thanks, very informative as usual. Your video gave me an idea. I have a bunch of solid birch flooring planks left over from a project. I can probably convert them to build panel doors.
Thanks for the great video James! 👍
OMG, did you solve a big question I've had with my shaper when doing ''profile/contre profile"(French?) cabinet doors; there was always tear out on one end and even asked local DIY Store if I didn't need another pair of knives to avoid this....Holy cow, am I glad I watched this....cheers...rr Normandy, France
Great video. I've been making raised panel cabinet doors for about 18 months now. I agree with you on to not use lower end lumber on painted doors. I used pine lumber on a cabinet I was going to paint. Major pita with imperfections in the lumber and warping. The maple cabinets turned out beautifully.
The quality of the lumber is directly related to the place you're buying it from, not the species. The reason he said to use something other than pine or poplar are 1) they're so soft they dent and scratch very easily, marring your work, and 2) they soak up paint like a sponge.
Robert Barth
Hey Robert!
I have used poplar as a secondary wood and liked it rather much. Unfortunately I became really allergic to the dust.A sawmill guy told me this is not uncommon. Have you heard of this?
Thanks
Frank
@@RobertBarth1 wow, thanks for that information.
A lot of good info - always worth my time!!!
This is great stuff Nubs... awesome video. Thank you for sharing!!!
Great video great video.. You made it very easy to follow and to see how to make a door.
Mr. Nubs,
That piece that shifted a little bit looks more like planer snipe than anything the router bit might do. Just say'en.
Yes, that was the wrong clip in the video. But the same point applies.
Great job. I also use the Jessem Router fence and love it.
That's a SawStop fence in the video. But the hold-downs are Jessem.
Good Job, Stumpy!
Thanks for useful tips and detailed explanation and trial performance.
So beautiful explained.
Well done. 🤓👍🏻
Thanks for the video. Just an fyi for those who don't have a router or those bits, these cabinet doors can also be make with just hands tools as well, just takes a bit more patience and much practice
Also can be done on a table saw, with the right set up
Lots of good tips. Especially liked the one about which side to touch first so as to pump the glue to the outside. Thanks and thumbs up to crush a troll.
Great Video James👍
Thank you!
If using 1/2 panels with Euro style hinges, depending on door size, I'll add extra hinges earlier than I would with 1/4 in panels as large doors won't stay square on the face without the extra hinges. Excellent tips!
I am repairing to make 21 cabinet doors thanks for all your help.
Thanks!
Nice video - yes mistakes do happen until final assembly
Good information once again. Thanks 🤘
Outstanding tips, thx
I like to use space balls to keep the panels centered.
May the schwartz be with you!
I use it only with solid wood raised panels. No need with mdf or plywood panels
Great tips
$128 on the amazon for a high quality frame and style bit set is well worth the money.
Great vid as usual, cannot unsee the black bobcat ears though.
That is definitely the router bits for a tongue and groove that I'm going to get
Whiteside 6004 Frame & Panel bit set: amzn.to/2yojEAP
I really like myself freud sets. Freud also makes same profile.
Around 4:30 you mention not using the guard over the bit because the miter fence won't clear it. I recently picked up a handmade router table which has notches cut into the fences to allow then to clear the guard. Seems worth it to me.
Could I use my palm router to cut the rails and stiles using 1/4" router bits? I'm brand new to woodworking and only have some basic tools. I want to build new doors for my kitchen cabinets using what I have if possible. Thanks! Love your channel!
Nice tips. Those half inch MDF panels must get pretty heavy if it's a big door, though.
I have a rail and stile bit set and have never had the nerve to experiment with them. I always do mortise and tenon joints and cut a rabbit for the panel. You get a really large glue surface. If I was in a commercial shop I’d use rail and stile, but for hobby work I probably will stick with mortis and tennon.
Frank
Mortise and tenon is more difficult. If you can do that, you can do this :)
@@StumpyNubs Definitely. Cope and stick is the preferred method overall.
Thanks for the tips. Can the rails and stiles be made with 7/8" or 3/4" thick material?
i wish i saw how to make this process without a special router bits. thanks
Perhaps explain how to use t
he clamps so the project dries square. Also, after it is clamped and you find it is not square, how to add a crooked clamp to force it square. I have always found it tough to explain it myself.
Great video and tips. When you use a solid wood panel, do you ever glue the center and let the panel expand in both directions to keep it centered? I always finish my panels before glue up so no bare wood shows if the panel contracts after finishing.
Sometimes a drop of glue on the center of the top and bottom ends of the panel will hold it in place and let it expand both ways. But it's easier to just put some flexible material, such as little pieces of foam in the grooves.
I prefer doing these with a mallet, chisel, saw and plow plane!
@stumpynubs what's the worst injury 🩸 you ever got whole wood working?
👍
Stumps, do you ever use space balls rebate between the middle panel and the styles and rails?
I tend to use 1/4" plywood for the center panel, reason being is it's more durable than any MDF boards out there. When you have kids and animals around, you will find that MDF just isn't up to the task. Solid wood panels are great if you want a natural look but painted, yeah it's plywood. (Edit) One other thing, if you don't have these bits, you can do this on a table saw or use a straight bit, you just need to ensure that you have the fence set properly and the depth set exactly. Make sure you at least have a 1/4" spiral upcut or straight bit take small passes until you get to the proper depth. Okay I'm finished I think lol. Thank you James for bringing up this topic :)
You could drive a truck over this door. I have no idea how your kids or animals could damage it more than they could 1/4-inch plywood.
@@StumpyNubs Large dumb dogs on hardwood floors, freshly mopped and watch them run full bore and slide head first into things. Plywood doesn't dent as easily lol.
@@StumpyNubs Okay, even 1/8" either way it my wife doesn't like small dogs. We've always had Huskies, Pitbulls or Labs so yeah lower cabinets in my house get the plywood treatment. Plus we have special needs children who destroy just about everything they come into contact with. In some circumstances I can use MDF for example my plastic bag dispenser is MDF because it's up off of the floor but generally I have to use something more water resistant.
Hello amigo.
Im from Costa Rica central america.
I will like to buy a circular saw for diy.
Do you recomend Battery or electric?
Do you have any video that i can check?
Thank you for all your help
Great video Sr. Question for you, where did you get the hold downs that you have on the router fence? Thanks
amzn.to/2VJKuv1
Say, Mr. Stumpy. Can you give me some insight as to the router bits you used? Are they just a stock item for most places? I am going to make all new door for my kitchen this summer. 17 each. Shaker looks good.
Whiteside 6004 Frame & Panel bit set: amzn.to/2yojEAP
You showed an angled rabbet on the back of the mdf panel insert. What bit did you use to make the rabbet. Thanks
From a complete noob...this was great. Quick question on the size and width of the cabinet doors...at what point would you change the construction approach as the door gets taller and/or wider? I'm thinking for tall pantry doors that the wife has ordered.
Tall doors are more likely to warp. I would put one or even two rails across the center to divide them into two or three panels.
Thanks for the video. Just in time! One question though. The gap on the back of the door where the insert panel meets the frame. Do you just leave that like it is or didn't miss something?
5:05 If the shoulders around the rabbet fit tightly against the frame, it may keep the frame from closing completely. Rather than leaving a tiny bit of room for error, which may look like I miss-cut the panel a little too small, I leave a lot or room so it becomes a decorative feature.
I'm curious as to why you are using feather boards when you are using the Jessem Saw Guides. They are offset at 5 degrees to pull the work into the fence so you don't have to use feather boards.
To illustrate where featherboards may be placed for those without the guides.
Question, I’ve read that I shouldn’t glue in MDF panels because they do expand and contract, but in this video, you do glue them in. Thoughts?
They don't move much at all, especially with a finish on them.
Can you tell me what type of bit do used to cut the rabbit?
Is the door at 5:30 wider than tall? If not, looks like you did the joints opposite from what is shown at 1:04.
I seem to remember New Yankee Workshop saying to put a spot of glue in the middle of the grove of the bottom rail. This would keep the panel from rattling but allow for expansion.
Yes.
Would you ever consider gluing two sides (around the same corner) of a solid wood panel to allow for expansion & contraction but prevent rattling as the piece ages, or is there some reason that's ill advised?
Sometimes a drop of glue on the center of the top and bottom ends of the panel will hold it in place and let it expand both ways. But it's easier to just put some flexible material, such as little pieces of foam in the grooves.
@@StumpyNubs Good to know, thanks.
👍🇺🇸
What about gluing a plywood panel? Just to stop any rattle
I glue plywood/MDF panels. They strengthen the door tremendously.
New to all of this. Is there a video, made by you for a less experienced woodworker explaining this process with a little more detail. Was getting lost bc I couldn’t keep up with understanding the terms for everything.
This was fast paced, but all the steps were illustrated both with videos and often drawings. I may use a phrase like "cope the end of the rail" without defining the word "cope," but since I am doing it while I say it, you should be able to understand what I'm talking about. Likewise, I said "fillet" without defining it, but I was pointing at the fillet when I said it.
Stumpy Nubs Your right, I watched it about 6 times and understood a little more each time lol. I appreciate all of your wisdom. Just subscribed recently and have watched many of your videos. You have the clearest explanations out of any YT creator I’ve seen yet with woodworking. Thank you!
Great video, but boy are those bit sets pricey! I’m sure it’s worth every penny if you’re doing a lot of frame and panel work, but would you have any interest in making a video showing how to cut the same profile on a table saw?
We will definitely make a video like that because I totally get what you're saying. But also consider what it costs to have cabinets made and that bit seems pretty cheap!
I am looking at doing these types of doors for an outside grill table. Would solid, thicker wood be better for the centers if I am painting them? I wouldn't think MDF would hold up well outside.
Use plywood
@@StumpyNubs Thanks!
If I had that amount and variety of tools I would probably never leave my workshop
Well. you need brake from it too. I speak from my experience. lol
Can u tell me the name rrauter bit Sr tank uu
How did shakers make the coped joint? Was it a shaped hand plane?
They didn't make a coped joint. They made a mortise and tenon. If there was a profile on the inside of the frame it was mitered and trimmed back on the ends.
Peple struggle with the size the rail shoul be in relation to your overall size your aiming for as the tennon and profile need to be accounted for. ive heard so many skilled woodworkers struggle with this little detail.
There's no tenon in cope and stick joinery like this. The only factors are appearance and whether you leave enough room for the hinge cup on the back.
So, what is the thickness of that mdf panel?
5:23
@@StumpyNubs Duh. It was early and you did use plain English but I didn’t process it correctly 🤦🏼♂️
@@StumpyNubs I have building some doors like this now and I was thinking about using half inch thick plywood to increase the weight of the door and this showed me how. Thanks!
Nicely done! You’re loosing weight too.
But James.... I remember one time ago you suggested using a horizontal router. I have a horizontal routing machine one that you had recommended. I haven’t made these joints in a very long time but do you know longer recommend using the horizontal router table you had even made a tilting Machine as a shop project.
Different videos for different people. We try to show lots of different methods.
Please, for safety sake, make sure your router doesn't spin faster than the recommended speed for the diameter of the panel bits. 25,000 rpm is much too fast for most panel bits. My router is one speed, 25,000, and too fast for most of these bits. Google suggested router speeds for bit diameters. Be safe.
I appreciate the warning, but there are no raised panels nor raised panel bits in this video. In the future, when we make a video about raised panels, I will certainly discuss proper bit speed.
What about cabinet doors for a hutch? That won’t be concealed in…