Is Warhammer Approaching a DARK AGE? What About Games Workshop? A 40K Rant with the Outer Circle!
Vložit
- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @northernexile
THE PATREON!
patreon.com/NorthernExile
Send Hobby Nightmares to: hobbynightmares@gmail.com or just head over to the Discord and follow the instructions!
I think Warhammer is about to enter a new age. Not a dark age tho. I think we're moving towards a Warhammer without gw as more and more fans cut gw out by using 3D prints recasts etc as well as other game systems like one page rules.
Blood Bowl and Battlefleet Gothic fans : First Time ?
100% agree working on printing a 1k sons army now. im to a point where i refuse to buy anything except larger models so ill buy magnus but everything else will be printed.
@@AAhmoulol yep. Warhammer Fantasy Battle players (*cough* 9th Age *cough*), "first time?"
@@darealwhosane I just started getting into heresy a bit ago and I wanted to get upgrades for my imperial fists but I refuse to pay a fortune for a resin cast forge world product that cost far more than it should or I could get a just as good 3D printed version on Etsy for a fiver.
For my part I use minis from recasters, 3D printing and GW minis when they are massively discounted and 2nd hand , but for the rules I use OPR.
I deem GW’s price rises as “The Harrods Approach” - for those who don’t know Harrods is a very bougie, high-end shop situation in one of the wealthiest parts of London.
I’m from a middle class family; 20 years ago, X from Harrods would be a nice birthday present between my parents or for something specifically snazzy.
Now, Harrods have taken the approach of “we don’t want 1000 families from G income bracket. We want 10 families from Gx300 income bracket” (this is most very wealthy oil families and international business peoples)
GW don’t want “everyone” they want people that will be their whales
That’s an idea but many of the people who continue to buy GW models are the competitive players, probably. Very few of these people are bougie, high-end shoppers. It would be interesting to see if tournaments get smaller over time as the prices continue to increase and it gets harder for new players to get into the hobby. I suppose the 2nd hand market would play a bigger factor as well.
@@buttemountain Very similar to what happened to the model train industry. Customer base has shrunk to the point where it's propped up by rich boomers. Not a sustainable model in the long run
40k being viewed more as a narrative now, by both newer fans and GW themselves, as opposed to a setting, has already put the entire IP on track to having its own "End Times" within the next 5-10 years. Part of me wants to feel bad for the people who know what's happening to 40k. However, as a Fantasy OG, another part of me wants to dance in the ashes of the burning IP while the people who never bothered to understand the property hard cope with how blindsided they were by GWs sheer contempt for its consumer base.
I’ve been a Warhammer fan since 2003. Supported them since then, accepted the expense of the hobby all up to now. Nowadays even a die hard is having trouble accepting this stuff.
$200 for a combat patrol is even insane.
$500 AUD for a Horus Heresy starter box. I'll defend them more than they deserve, in that its got 40 marine bodies and 10 terminators in it, but.... good grief, what is the thought process? Is there any?
"Do you want to buy the Kroot army box, with only about 500 points of Kroot in it, for $300? Sure, we could have tripled each unit and still made a staggering profit, but you guys will pay for a handful of chaff, characters and hounds, so why would we?"
What a corka of a video, two legends spitting pure facts, well done lads
Hi North, I may be talking out out my wazoo, but it seems that GW is in the same trap as a lot of companies who go public, ie they become answerable to the stockholders and they as a group have their meta locked in. Basically squeeze the profit and life out until the bottom falls out. As soon as the earnings report shows a couple of bad quarters, the stockholders will start dumping shares en masse and move on the the next sacred cow.
As far as why I haven't got into 3D printing... Filament printing seems to be far inferior to resin. I looked into resin printers but everyone seems to agree that the resin is toxic. That is not too big a concern w/ me as I have no children and I'd likely print in my garage with the door open. However, the tutorials I've watched indicate that the prints will need to be rinsed in isopropyl alcohol and sooner or later that IPA will be too dirty to use. In America, once a chemical can no longer be used for its intended purpose it's classified as a hazardous waste.
Most city water treatments account for people dumping chems down the drain, but I cant help but wonder if the rise of 3D printing isn't going to create a giant spike in this IPA hazardous waste and I don't know if I could gump a gallon of it down my sink in good conscience.
So GW should lower their prices… for the environment 😌
you can get water washable resin if you really want.
This is precisely why I went with water washable resin.
I pop the finished models in a bag with water in an ultrasonic cleaner to shake off the excess then pour the waste water into an oil drip tray and leave it outside to evaporate and cure the loose resin.
Can't forget I put a mesh on it to keep wildlife out.
Then once it's dry and cured I can scrape the excess off and bin it as its now set and inert.
For me its that they come and say "oh sorry with how the world is we just have to raise prices, the economy is just sooooo bad and forcing us to do this" followed by announcing record profits. Hasbro did the same thing.
Anyways if I'm buying Warhammer now its from my local store and from the "used" shelf at that. Or its on ebay from someone who isn't GW.
I started the hobby recently, 2019. I loved being able to pickup a box for $40 bucks (cad).
I started with the $35 underworld boxes. Painted a wide variety of models and loved it.
Now... Those are $65 bucks and it's just not worth it.
Recently I looked at my local store, saw the price of Belisarius Cawl, and told my friends I can't do this.
I love the Adeptus Mechanicus. I've collected them since 2019. But it's hard to justify giving GW my money. I don't like 10th, the way AdMec was treated was inexcusable, and even now it just costs too much.
I live very comfortably, I COULD be buying kits every week, but I can't justify it. Not when there's other companies giving equal (or better) minis, other games, and I have a backlog.
I can't justify spending my money on GW when trench crusade, star wars legion, alternative minis, etc. exist. A lot of my friends feel the same way, GW is alienating people who've spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars on building armies.
Same here. I have every Ad Mech and 30K Mechanicus model and 95% of them painted to an excellent standard in Metallica colors (White as their primary colors) , around 5K points. I quit warhammer 40K after 10th as well as 30K after HH 2.0. I don't see why I should send my money to GW when I can just praise the omnisiah and take good care of the machine spirit of my 3D printer.
Ray, when someone asks you if WH40K is entering a dark age - you say 'YES!'.
Taking your customers for granted is why there's mass layoffs in video gaming and Hollywood is flagging. They will learn. In time.
In Canada 5 of the new terminators is $80.00+tax
Yeah they want the gold fillings out of our fucking teeth with these prices
buy a 3d scanner then the box
We’re entering into an age of confusion in hobbying. Do you stick to current, quality enough plastics with GW, or do you venture into the 3D printing world, with or without your own printer?
With the advent of 3D printing become popular it’s also brought about the people who will try to do the bare minimum jobs for it, and charge a premium. I’ve been wary to buy 3D printed things because they’ve actually reached GW prices in what you get, and worse, the quality sucks at a 50/50 scale.
On top of all that, now we come to the division of communities. Do others accept 3D printing/GW product? What about player comparability and sportsmanship. And of course, what if they’re w0ke or weird.
It’s an age of division and uncertainty in which now you can’t trust new players, the companies or the 3rd party sellers.
agreed on buying from 3d printer sellers, some of the models they charge plus shipping makes it as expensive in not MORE than GW price for a particular type of model/s and i just get turned away because of it and look elsewhere. Im from Australia so high prices are kinda expected, but still, the alternative/proxy shouldnt be costing as much as the official....
The attitude you mentioned when you had the paper do your story. That GW attitude is exactly old school IBM. Anyone really remember them. The once God of IT and Mainframe systems. They were streamrolled into a tiny niche they are now. Failure to change with the times and corparate arrogance. Same with BlackBerry. Our stuff is that good (which it was). Famously, there was a courtcase in the mid 2000s. A case that could get BlackBerry banned from the US. The US Gov had to step in to "sort" out the case. As the Gov ran on BlackBerries. Now they are just a name.
Re price rises: this was one of the (combo of) things that forced me out recently.
For context, I'm comfortable. I make good money (well over £100k), and my wife works too. My mortgage and cars are paid off. I have minimal expenses with high disposable income, in the north of england where costs are low. I've been in the hobby since before 1e (with a break). I'm the guy who bought every army book and codex, every supplememnt, for every edition - for the fluff and sense of completion as much as the rules. I was buying the novels befofe BL was a thing, and know the lore inside out up to Guilliman returning. And they still managed to price me out.
I simply don't get how they still haven't driven away guys at national average wages and the kids, who are the people i saw the most at the GW store.
(I don't say where i am to brag - more to say "if they're pricing me out, they're really doing something wrong and i don't see how it's sustainable")
On their manufacturing and logistics - i work in a manufacturing industry. GW seem to manufacture in a fashion that's decades out of date in terms of planning and production, and without any regard to changing market dynamics. Horrendously inefficient and inflexible. And they just don't seem interested in looking at other industries around them who are far more effective - who supply products to the customers who want to buy them! GW are so proud of themselves that they seem to expect customers to be grateful to be allowed to buy things from them.
The sad thing is that there are so many people who are.
im sorry but i dont see how your 'priced out' when you earn over 100k a year. I make 30k a year and do just fine
@elvispearce5422 yeah they need to stop ruining lore like that and stick to the material that we love the hobby for
@@m33ddyhvMaybe it depends on your definition of "priced out"?
To you, I guess it means "I can't afford it at all" from what you say there.
To me, it means "I cannot justify paying those prices"
Sure. I physically could still buy it, no problems. But I won't. I no longer consider it worth the cost. The cost has rocketed to a point where I don't consider it worthwhile. When a product that I would otherwise buy reaches a price point i consider unreasonable, I refer to having been priced out of buying that product - whether or not I can physically afford to buy it.
@elvispearce5422it's not boredom. I'm still working through the pile.of shame / potential, and have started playing OPR against other ex-40k players - we still use the 40k names for squads etc. I still watch a lot of 40k lore videos whilst I'm working.
I'll admit I wasn't keen on the story changes of primarisification, but I'm not a marine player so it only affected me tangentially rather than rendering collections obsolete the way it did to some others.
There are other reasons, combined with the price points, that caused me to call it a day, but boredom isn't one of them!
@@DaemonikI’m in a similar boat, salary similar and have the DI to spend plus apparently I spend easily and collect too much (my partner says so) however I really cannot justify GW prices.
I’ve been tempted by new epic games but just looking at what you get for the price just blocks me.
60CAD for 3 models is rediculous. Now a 3D printer is cheaper than a combat patrol. Physical prints from OnePageRules are 15$ for 5 models (not as nice as GW). People need to make a statement with their walets for things to change
They almost did something right with the mobile app and the indexes, but then they shot themselves in the foot.
As far as models go, they literally just pull prices right out of their ass. The price hike before the holidays was steep, the most recent price hike was absolutely untenable.
Idk what it would take for me to buy a warhammer model rn. It would have to be used models from someone else who can no longer afford the hobby.
I have been in the Warhammer hobby for just over 30 years. I love the models despite the high prices. I no longer love the game and haven't played in about 5 years. I recently took some of my Ravaged Star Veil Touched minis into my FLGS. I got the minis through the Gamefound crowd funded campaign. The owner of the shop liked the minis. Miniwargaming plans to go retail with their figures eventually. They are currently developing a rules set and now have three factions worth of minis. The shop owner said he would be interested in carrying the minis when they go retail. The challenge will be getting 40K players to try a new system. There is also some local interest in One Page Rules. To me these are signs that GW is shedding some of their player base. Hopefully competition will push GW to course correct.
Warlord Games and Wargames Atlantic have semi comparable miniature ranges to GW.
Pretty good quality, very customizable.
Only problem is that GW corners the market, so their prices affect the others.
So alternative companies still play second fiddle to GW.
I think it’ll take a complete crash for things to swing around to sanity.
3D printing will likely come into its own at that stage.
Why buy 10 models for $60 when I could print 50 models for much less than that?
Im only 3 minutes in and on the prices I have been wanting to get into the old world because I loved playing total war warhammer. I wrote up a rough 2k list I would want and it was priced at 470 dollars. I don't feel comfortable putting that much of my paycheck to that amount as a college student. Not to mention half the bretonnia models I want are sold out and exclusively online.
I'm later in the video and I wanna say thank you North. I have been trying to work towards one small purchase at a time and this helped affirm the method I wanted go about.
I didn’t realize Old World was so cheap lol
@buttemountain I also used 3rd party when doing the math, a local store has a 15% off retail prices.
Imma leave my story here:
I got in to W40k 2 or 3 years ago by listening to some random audio srory, while bored ar work, and lostening to the "children of the omnisiah" soundtrack from mechanicum. After this I had to know more.
Ive listened to podcasts, watched 40k in 40 monutes battlereports, and kinda got in to all of that.
Last year, being 28 I finally paid my corona dept. Thia year I've bought my first box the Ultimate Starter set to split woth a friend, I took the marines. I already have them painted and ready to play as salamanders.
Next we each got a Kill Team startes set of woth my Ork comando is all asembled, and 80% painted.
Beside that I've bought Ork old combat patrol, the Stompa Battle force, Killa Kanz, 2xGretchen for my ork army.
And 2x combat patrol of World eaters, a chaos rhino, and Master of Execution for an army of world eaters.
I still have plans to but a Gorlanaut, some mekz, stormboyz and Snikrot for the orks,
and Aangron, 2x 8bound and 2x exalted ones, Kharn, and a Lord of Skulls (love this one but 150€ for 1 model is wild, the fuck are they thinking)
I got myself an airbrush, but I lile to use brushes more after all.
I want to stay in this hobby. But after the last price gauge. I can only buy from online retailers.
And while looking at all the dumb moves the GW is doing this year. I fear I will dwindle and sell my models before my armies will even be finished.
Time will tell
The dark ages of 40K begins 😂😂
I have been playing since second edition Warhammer 40K. I've always been loyal in the sense that I want the game to continue and the company to do well enough that I can keep playing. I have hit a wall..... I have started buying 3D printed models. I am considering getting a 3D printer. I plan to keep playing but I can't get their latest models at the prices they want. I have absolutely no idea how you get new people into the hobby.
I'm a Australian and I haven't bought 40k in years, print it all, it's not worth the cost
I'm mainly a painter and the painting experience with 3D prints or GW models is about the same for me. Hoping more people get into OPR so I can play more OPR games.
I found my converted World Eaters Army (built way before the book release), and wanted to add some stuff to it. I was going to buy 2 Rhinos. The Rhino kit, which is the same as the one I bought in 2006, is now $60. Yeah, no.
It was my interest in the settings (40k and WHFB/old world) that always urged me to do more impulse buying (books and minis), but GW writing has always been mediocre at best, and the abominable quality over the last year simply killed my interest.
However, due to my pile of unpainted minis, and even unopened boxes, I can continue the hobby for the rest of my life without giving GW another cent. I can have my cake and eat it too.
It's supply and demand. At the moment supply is low, as production is at capacity (hence things always out of stock and the plans for a new factory). As they don't have as many boxes to sell, they can charge a lot for the boxes and only sell them to the people who will pay the most for them. As long as things sell out, the price isn't too high as far as the company is concerned, if anything it could probably be higher (hence continued increases).
In theory, when priduction capacity increases, they will be incentivised to lower their prices to convert a greater percentage of the demand.
Instead of selling out stocks by only selling to the top 25% of customers (ranked by amount willing to spend), if they halved prices and instead sold three times as much (unit cost of production is tiny), they could profit more.
Obvs the numbers are just for example, and they'll almost certainly not *halve* prices, but I hope I'm making sense?
I wpuldn't be surprised if they didn't drop them at all, but I think there's an argument that they should once they can increase supply.
I agree that the price needs to come down but I don't know that 3d printing is going to be as widespread as people think. There are a lot of people who can't get into 3d printing because they have small children they don't want getting into toxic resin or don't have the ventilation/ a spare room to print in so they aren't breathing in resin fumes. Maybe if fdm printers get to the point where they can print at the quality resin does it might catch on more. At least that's how it is in my area. I think they need to put all the rules and codices for both current and old editions into WH+ and just have that subscription then sell the rulebooks as collectors editions with fancy leather covers and all your lore and art is in it with a single page at the back telling you to put a code in on the app for the army rules. Then price the physical book at like $100 and it will still sell. For models I think they need to open additional factories in America and Oceania so you have more supply and don't need to price for shipping product all over the world
That's very true for personal 3D printing. I'm on the fence about it for some of the reasons you mention - might take the plunge when the kids go to uni.
But there are plenty of people who will do the printing for you, and sell you models as good as GW quality for a fraction of the price.
Example: i recently bought MajorKill's set of 5 Aeldari Phoenix Lords for i think about £80, including shipping from Australia. GW won't sell me 3 of those at all and haven't done for years, and would charge me nearly as much for the 2 they do sell.
The accessibility of 3d printing isn't just about people printing their own, but about people being able fo get good models they want easily from people who will charge much less than GW as well.
I think we'll see 3d printed things becoming more wide spread either through improved home use or 3D printing services becoming cheaper and more wide spread that it can be a service you can send files to and pick up the next day like getting your photos developed used to be.
Well you could get rid of a lot of the issues you just mentioned. Go in with a friend, who has the space to store the printer, then buy your own resin, print using the friends printer (whilst having a beer \game whatever. Just don’t forget to bung your friend a few bucks for electricity will still be cheaper, massively so than go stuff
Totally agree, I'm an Australian I use far less money to play videogames than buy Warhammer models, despite playing all the time before COVID. Ironically, I started Warhammer to save on games and peripherals.
As an American I didn’t know what Ann Summers. I did a google and was shocked to say the least hahaha
That 400% in 9 years figures is certainly an exaggeration - GW treats the starter boxes as a 50% discount on the separate products (on top of the nominal discount of a Vanguard set or equivalent: for instance Leviathan and Skaventide prices are going to work out at 50% of the price of the two Combat Patrols/Vanguards, the additional kits for each side, and the rules, not 50% of all the models priced as individual kits).
So over 9 years the increase has been about 100% - which is still significant, and as someone who's tended to buy direct from GW for much of my life, even when much lower on income, I recently hit the point where I won't buy anything without a third party discount other than the odd made to order or otherwise exclusive item, and I've become more selective with those.
To be fair to GW, the situation isn't much different in the rest of the market on the face of it, and usually for much inferior models, priced as individual kits: Mantic's Kings of War models, for instance, are much lower quality figures on lower-quality plastic, and most of the companies that put out kits of comparable quality to GW - such as Victrix and Warlord - are by and large manufacturers of historicals rather than fantasy. And for all you say about D&D, look at the insane pricing of products like HeroQuest and Talisman in their new editions. Branching out into the wider gaming industry, individual board games are now rarely below £50 and commonly around £100 when they'd have been half the price at about the time AoS 1 released. GW does still have the edge over most competitors and over 3D printers that they produce almost exclusively in high-quality hard plastic, a preferable material to resin or MDF for most hobbyists as it's easier to work with and repair, and less brittle. And while Mantic is still far behind most of the better model companies, never mind GW, even they have come a very long way in just the last couple of years, after about a decade and a half making models that looked like badly sculpted plasticene.
But that's to ignore two significant differences: GW benefits from economies of scale that much smaller manufacturers - including most board game publishers as well as basically all miniatures manufacturers - can't match; and companies like Mantic may make expensive individual kits but they offer much bigger discounts on their starter products. Spearhead sets are too expensive to lure people with casual interest into the game, and GW is currently insisting on treating its bigger discount launch sets as FOMO boxes. The new Spearhead format is crying out to be supported by a permanent product containing two Spearheads you can throw at each other plus the associated rules, boards and terrain - basically Skaventide with a few fewer models but actually including the faction rules. Maybe, like Mantic, they could offer multiple pairings.
As for GW's future, I think they have more awareness of future competition than you credit them with: they're very aggressively farming out their IPs and have had a lot of success in getting cultural capital out of 40k. I suspect they may eventually pivot away from the games and models if competition becomes too intense, beyond focusing on what can keep the IP active, much as Wizards of the Coast - while still supporting Magic the Gathering as a game - has aggressively moved towards seeing it first and foremost as a collectible (something that GW has always traded on, but I doubt their current prices will attract people who just want to collect) and only secondarily as a game..
3 price rises ago is when I should have stopped. But now I’m just out.
I’m going to get the anniversary model, maybe, but everything else is 3D or 🏴☠️ - no shame.
Maccas idea sounds like the battle honours system GW has. I like both and I like how they encourage people to take steps to building your army up
Mr.🟠 is the in the Hobby Space. (if the Hobby Space were a Solar System)
Malifaux is not expensive relative to other MWG’s out there. It’s a great game, with a great community, and a company that cares about their players. I haven’t regretted making the switch. Worth every single cent, I’m surprised they do not charge more TBH.
Make the built it paint it play it an objective marker that can be 3d printed, assembled, painted, and played.
A bit late but when he was talking about things he could send out, I think objective markers would be a great idea, you could even put the numbers on them and then use them in the game as objectives 1,2,3,4 ect. Though admittedly it would be more expensive then what he purposed.
A great example of their bizarre pricing is the honoured of the chapter box. 1 sprue with 3 characters, 3 blade guard and 3 eradicators. Currently being sold for £100. This is less than half the space marine portion of indomitus which sold for £125 4-5 years ago.
I watched a video on youtube, cant recall the channel, but comparing the stock mrket information of GW to other gaming companies.
In general a successful company want 10% net profit margin to be considered successful, Mattel -3.49%, Hasbro are at 7.69%, Bandia 14.77%, GW 28.83%.
So thats over and above any costs for staff, design, production, transport, any excuse they can use to produce models.
Its just greed.
I think it’s The Baneful Chronicles. He did a pretty comprehensive breakdown of GWs profit margin.
I find odd fact that GW dose not have factory base in America and/or Australia. So quicker and cheaper to get product to customer on SAID continents
I've been playing GW games since 1999 and I have officially thrown in the towel (2024) on their products. Sad, but there are now better companies with better miniatures and better rules out there for cheaper - and it is not just me, a lot of gamers are out because they can no longer afford it. Also there are almost NO new young players entering the game right now, I can remember 15, 20 years ago (3rd & 4th edition 40k) there were SO MANY new players coming into the hobby, now it is a ghost town.
“This will not caught on”
I bought 1 combat patrol but then I saw the rest on the price and I was like “Hell.No.”. Got 2500points extra worth of miniatures throught 3D services (didn’t even buy a 3D printer). Not just young lads, older people compared to young will, hopefully, find the obvious better options. 1 combat patrol and then Bye GW.
up to the early 2000s... the model of 'order and come back in a bit' existed at the shop/gaming space at HQ.... If what you were after wasn't in stock, no matter how obscure they'd cast it for you on demand, 20-30 mins later would be a box of still warm metal waiting for you in the store.
One of the problems is the ceo from Microsoft still has the "to big to fail" mentality
Our goal must be to take back our agency as consumers and ensure these companies do right by us. Also be willing to make your own lore, models and rules. We do not need these Korpos. WE ARE THE HOBBY! Don't forget! Tell a friend.
I buy eBay or proxy minis from other designers. OPR has been killing it recently in minis and price and GW is going to price themselves out of market share.
Playing games in store is both the best and worst advertisment. When I was young (13) you might have the odd person who didn't bathe last time I was in a store where games were been played I heard parents comment about the smell and obvious mental health issues on display. The manager had deodorant on hand yelling out loud it was available on the table and to use it.
Edit* build paint play is back in stores (battle Honours). The rewards are great. Paint brush case, bits box, miniatures carry case and badges.
The hubris of GW management is bizarre for a company that was a clear 2nd in its market from 2016 to 2019. It's actually amazing how FFG being larger then them for 4 years straight had literally no effect on GW.
Great discussion, guys. Yes, GW's increases, reductions and excesses don't seem sustainable. There's a point where people will leave the hobby or not enter the hobby. GW seems like it's trying to play chicken with that boundary line. If you love the hobby, it's very disconcerting, because we'd all love to be a part of it in the future.
Most of my army is mostly 2nd hand and repainted. Coming from other game systems, gw is just too expensive to buy new boxes of models most of the time. For me at least.
great idea guys on the badge system. Small pin badge be great for peoples carry case bags. Always speak highly of both channels to my community here. People need to stop accepting this free stuff from GW and make a stand.
Enough is Enough
Im honestly shocked gw hasnt gone full micro-transaction cosmetic pieces to clip on to models and adding in entire new rulesets
If GW considers their competition to be a high-end sex toy shop and lingerie, then I have absolutely no hope for its future what so ever, because they can't be THAT out of touch. It'll be like a car manufacturer considering plane manufacturers to be its competitor.
What is this? My two favourite warhammer CZcamsrs collab? Can’t wait
Hobby (Ranks), Planetary Defense Force, Imperial Guard, Space Marine, Emperors Body Guard.
Pretend I'm the guy in charge of Blackrock and Vanguard: 'Hey guys, 3D printing is the next big money maker. So, what do we do about this cute lil company we've invested in that makes miniatures in house? I say tank it with the usual DEI tactics without looking like we are tanking it while buying stock in resin and 3D printer companies. No skin off our nose.'
What are the DEI tactics? You know half the world literally lives in India or China, or is from that diaspora? Damn right they should be included. You know what the slowest growing race/ethnicity is globally? Fast forward to the 41st millennium…
Pulling a Palpatine, playing every side of the war so I can't possibly lose 😅
this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but in the time gw units have doubled in price since i got into the hobby so have most other things in the uk, food like fish and chips is all about double the price it was then around 2015, petrol has nearly doubled in price. most things are 50%-100% more expensive in the uk than they were in 2015. so yes it sucks but games workshops quality has improved a lot since the old £20 guardsman squad and the price increases are about in line with inflation in the uk
i do think they could easily have had fewer and smaller price increases and stayed profitable quite easily, so it is unfortunate that they have raised prices so much
Very rarely do I buy GW products unless I get a steal of a deal off the retail price on ebay. Otherwise I frequent Etsy for 3D printed proxy models or 2nd hand models.
Getting to the point where my 40k army is going to cost me 40k!!!
Buy recasts people. They're out there.
or recast yourself ;)
I stopped playing GW games. Primarily because I just got sick of the GW edition cycle nonsense.
But there were other reasons.
One of them being the lock downs and club members kids wanting to get into the hobby.
So we switched to opr mainly so people did not do something silly or break the budget. And 3d printer goes brrr.
.
my problem with one page rules is they dont have bases sizes listed its a small gripe but its annoying for bases not to be defined
It would be difficult to define bases and remain model agnostic. I haven’t seen any rules that interact with the base size (e.g. no overhanging bases etc.). That said I’ve only played with the beginner rules so far.
they have a base "range" for units like troops are on 25-32 larger elites are on 40-60 then larger things like vehicles and walkers I think its, if it fits it sits
@@WarbossFitz that’s the way I do it
Battletech survived without a publisher for years, 40k can, and will do the same. GW is not a games company anymore. They are just an economic parasite, bleeding whales, and newcomers alike.
Warhammer sits in a bit of a different position than Battletech. Battletech has basically always promoted autonomy in its player base. Hell, I think the official rules still state that you can proxy models with whatever you have on hand. Conversely, GW has spent decades cultivating a community dependency on them - in terms of rules, models, and even places to play.
The best case study we have for breaking away from GW is the aftermath of the End Times for Fantasy. While a community for Fatansy did manage to persist outside of GW, it was a massively diminished one, and I'd argue, one that performed notibly worse than its Battletech counterpart.
@spnked9516 I'm sorry, but the original rulebooks and codices disagree. Kitbashing and DIY were encouraged for a good portion of 40ks lifespan. While I agree the focus has shifted entirely to only recognizing proprietary retail purchases, it wasn't always this way, and Pepperidge Farm remembers...
i hate the push of "NEW YEAR, NEW ARMY!" making people think its normal to buy a whole new army because you models are worthless and you need more.
best streams ever, Northy E and Dr.circle in the house
Why not make the coin 3D-printable?
I do not get why people do not move on into other game system. It is hard to leave what is familiar and popular with all the lore and content creators as well as players. I made the decision to completely cut GW off and moved over to Mantic games. I play kings of war and starting to play firefight. It is a much smaller community where I live but it is a much different and I would say better community. It is very laid back and fun, even the competitive scene. I spend three quarters less for models and do not have to worry about constant rule changes, nerfs, buffs and rules bloat.
This. Rebased my WHFB armies for Kings of War back in 2012. Never looked back, never regretted for one sec.
You are also assuming wrongly that GW care like at all about small businesses.
They. Are. A . Corporation.
legendary crossover
40K got me into miniatures. I will still be in miniatures and 40K either with or without GW having my money.
There are plenty of ways to access their goods without helping them!
*Laughs in 60 printed Word Bearers marines*
Is GW in debt?
one trend i see where company keep raising prices is that they are in debt.
I suspect GW is already close or getting close to the price /ceiling cap in terms of its putting people off in taking up the hobby & maybe within 10-15 year it'll be heading the way of Blockbuster, when the likes of Netflix & similar other companies were in their infancy in the late 90's early 2000's.
As some of the reasons that's putting people of is the amount of rules updates, Ok I may be only be getting back into the hobby after leaving in 3rd ed and when compared to currently multiple data cards, Prices etc not everyone wants to necessarily want to learn & keep upto date the amount of rules changes what seems like a monthly basis.
But from the last couple of times I've been to a GW lately I generally got the feeling that they didn't want you there other than just standing staring at you as if you were a thief of worse.
Gw has been bleeding long term since after COVID badly.
GW are also notorious for 0 discount and fixed prices also. So even a price course correction is going to stand out to people admitting their greed and that will not happen.
I wonder on a side note if GW are waiting to partner with the first consumer 3d printer company and just watching these advancements. Probably giving too much credit here.
Look at Battletech. A game that started in the 80's , has gone through 3 licenses(FASA-wizkids-catalyst/topps)...and the fans kept it alive even when the game was dead. It is proof that you don't need a company...hell..you are the game.
With catalyst screwing up on a weekly basis(playing politics of exclusion..doing over people who paid into their kickstarter(s!)..corporate theft and malfeasance..etc etc)..more people are leaving and just printing what they need.
No one needs a company..especially one that gives less than a crap about it's customers.
People who whine about prices are usually the first to be buying boxes up and saying that they 'hatw" GW but love Warhammer. You are all hypocrites.
They've put themselves in a weird position.
GW are focusing on new and younger hobbyists but pricing themselves above what most new hobbyists and children would be willing to drop on a new hobby like this.
I dont expect to buy a pair of trainers and expect to see a 400m running track though. If i owned GW i dont want a teenager with £100 going into a GW store and seeing a couple of pickle mush heads with playing with badly painted tat.
will read this tomorrow !
@elvispearce5422 Stores now are bad...saw a GW in northampton where the bloke there told the kid what army to get !
We're getting the band back together
Headlining this "An Epic 40k Rant" is false advertising. I was so looking forward to a rant about Epic 40,000.
Wait the lions been out two years now?
Don't tell me that...
Instead of a sticker, maybe an stl of a coin?
GW won't have to learn how to 3D print efficiently or excellently. They'll buy a company that does and meld it into their own image.
I think GW knows 3d printing is catastrophic and that is behind the massive price hikes. They want to get all the money the can while they can
inflation mixed with shrinkflation sucks but its the whole world everything is going to get worse you must prepare yourself for the future as the middle class gets wiped out. alot of people are broke but alot of people are also making enough where money is not an issue.
GW is just reacting to the economic situation.
Enamel pins !!!
I feel very bad for composite games.
They got completely fucked over by GW
What’s the context?
@@buttemountain Stock issues.
If you look them up, you'll see they've essentially rebranded and shifted away from GW
@@darko-man8549 ah, I see
What pushed me out of the hobbie is the hate fans. The people who none stop cry that warhammer is woke now. And complain over the simplest of stuff.
The arch fans are probably a good example. People who have never played or even glued together a model screaming and acting like they are focal point . When they have never spent a cent into the hobby
“Never spent a cent on the game”
This proves they are smarter than us
I agree. Or the Blackrock stuff. I have money invested into stable stocks through Blackrock. There not out to get us or build a new world order. There so big because when ever it says Blackrock has 5% in gw. That's actually Joe, Jim, And jane investing through them.
Imagine bitching about a box that’s 250$ usd or something close but 900$ worth of stuff. People just cry when shits not free.
Who said it’s worth $900? The company itself that arbitrarily decides the price point? I’ll tell you what it’s worth, it’s worth what people will pay for it, and not a cent more.
A lot of poorly informed speculation on this. Not saying it's all wrong, but insights into GW from the outside are fraught. There is a saying 'if you can't afford it, it's not for you.' GW hobby is aimed at young teens, the parents pay. They pay to see their kids not on a screen, reading books, and painting and doing something 'creative'. They are the customer base. There is an endless stream of young teens, most don't stick with the hobby. They are gone at 17-18 after spending a lot on plastic... some return later, many not. But for adults, accept you are doing a kids hobby, and having to pay with your own wallet. GW know their market... they are not dumb. As for 3D printing, when its viable for mass market, they'll do it. Plastic reliably produces millions... 3D printing is, atm, not close to this. It's still niche. If it grows big, GW have the £s to invest, hire those in the know, and adapt quickly. It was the same with the internet, back in mid 90s, refused to have a website... put it got adopted when needed and viable, and happened quick. I use 3-D print manufacturers and so far, meh! Not close to hard plastic.
Cope
As much as I’d like to sympathise with this. I don’t; like at all.
Several factors here. Covid, inflation, import taxes in Australia. The economy just is. You think you can do better? Try competing against them like mini wargaming does with its GW ripoff.
If the average person can’t cope with paying for a hobby earn more money. Capitalism works if you work with it.
It's all easy to say "compete" it's another to do it functionally. I can start making soft drink soda at home, technically I'm competing with Coca Cola, but am I going to push them out of the market? Unlikely.
As for the cost of import taxes and such to Australia, the Australian Goods and Service Tax and Import tariff combined is just 16%, VAT in the UK is 20%, so technically, apart from shipping (which is low when spread over a container of models) it should actually be cheaper to purchase Warhammer here, than the UK, as there are 4% less taxes!
Enjoy the North and Macca collabs very much lol'd at the alpha male hobby course bit hobby accountability is an awesome thing. A badass patch would be fun for those that complete the tasks🤘🤘wish outer circle would update the merch store! Would love to help with the program in anyway i can from the us
I honestly think gw will continue to lose sales, their "screw the fans" stance on the women custodes is JUST the beginning. Their awful "collectors" anything are done horribly, the collectors books are the worst, but even the hardcovers run out in a month. I honestly see the awful parasite dei pushing companies looking at Warhammer as something they'd like to purchase and ruin, disney especially, so expect to see that at some point in the future. Nothing lasts forever, being rich 99 percent of the time gives you a god complex and makes you a horrible awful person that cant create anything yourself, so you go buy others ideas and ruin them. It'll need a big crash of most media today to happen before good things come out again. It would also need the law Bill Clinton removed when he was president to come back that makes it illegal for one entity to just start buying up all the other media entities.