The New York, Westchester, and Boston Railway
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- čas přidán 17. 09. 2012
- The "Westchester" as it existed in 1937, after abandonment, and after the 4 miles in the Bronx became the Dyre Avenue line of the IRT. Narrated by Roger Arcara
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
My father was the ticket agent at the Pelham station, which was located at 5th Avenue and Third Street, and is sadly not depicted in this video. He worked for the NY W&B until they went out of business at midnight December 31, 1937. He rode on the last train that night.
Brings a tear to my eye when I think of the possibilities nycta could have done with that line. Also special note of eternal thanks to Roger Arcara for his rail passions on video. Rest in peace.
Thank you for bringing my cousin Roger back to me. His interest in streetcars and model trains were contagious in my youth and I relived it briefly but joyfully in this video. To hear his voice again was a wonderful surprise. Again, thank you. I'm now discovering many more of his videos which I'm sharing with the family.
Your cousin was a wonderful man. I was lucky enough to know him. I am a retired motorman, who ran a lot of trains over the ex NYWB. I still live by the Morris Park station.
Roger was a good friend of my Dad's, John Marron. I remember seeing this video and his voice just brought me back to his many visits with my Dad while they talked trains.
Roger was a great Friend. We had many wheeling and dealings back in the 70's & 80's
I'm a rail fan and in my city where I grew up (mount vernon) I always wondered what train line crossed these abandoned bridges, and now I know, freaking awesome
Yes I do! My favorite railroad, and I am thankful I live on the part that was saved.
Most railroads had dreams of going a lot further than they did. Despite it's name, it never left New York State.
Too ambitious of a company. It was way ahead of its time. The depression and lack of access to Manhattan did it in.
I hope this line exists in heaven, so I have something to look forward to.
Up until about 14 years ago, you could still see the remnants of the Wykagyl station under North Street in New Rochelle. I did some work on the project that removed the platforms and bridge and replaced them with a filled in roadway. The station is still standing, although it has now been extended and retrofitted to provide retail space, so it's not as easily recognizable.
Nice work thanks. I have been a fan of rail transit since a kid in the 50's and The New York Central, Penn Central and so on love the nostalgia
👍👏😊❤️ I enjoyed this video very much...... thanks for posting
Very interesting and informative.🇺🇸
This is a very historical video. I hope there is more footage of the NYW&B still around just waiting to be viewed.
I grew up (late 12:34 70's & 80's) less than a block from where the tracks ran between the Quaker Ridge and Heathcote stations. Many of the houses had rails piled up in their backyards kind of hidden out of sight. However, during games of manhunt we would always come across these old rails.
I dated my present wife back in the 70’s She lived only a few blocks from 219th street and White plains rd station. And I was coming from Brooklyn. That was a long haul. Must’ve been love (LOL) Great train memories.
I can't help but think the NYW&B would have been worth it's weight in gold when WW2 came, considering the gasolene and rubber rationing during the war years. But who knew?
Several years ago I read an article about the NYW&B in "Railfan and Railroad" magazine, very well written by an gent who grew up in Westchester County. He said when he was a boy the best way to liven things up at family gatherings was to ask about the NYW&B. His older male relatives would explode in rage at the lines abandonment and rant for at least an hour! They loved that 'road! He said it was very entertaining!
Yep! I worked there from 1972 to 1989...I always wondered what the operator had to do to hand up orders to the NHRR Trains? Did they have signals on the NYW&B to protect them?? It was not on the model board or the machine, no one could tell me, not even Tommy Donahue who worked there when the NYW&B was running..A great historical mystery for former operators to contemplate in retirement, I guess!!
Dale in Alabama
The tracks ran behind my house in White Plains...now the White Plains Greenway. The Gedney station was a block away. Fun video, thanks! 🎉
What a treat to have this back! I saw Roger Arcara narrate this live when it was first discovered at a NYWB celebration at the New Rochelle NHRR station; I'd heard it was "lost" afterward. Happy that it's been found! What a sad waste scrapping this line was!
By the way, a projected extension was to go north to Danbury and connect with an inland route to Boston. It was once also proposed to tunnel under the Harlem River and terminate the line at 125th St. Obviously, neither happened..
This long (c. 2,190 feet) narrow (100 feet wide) parcel, located near the westernmost corner of Connecticut (south of today's Tamarack Country Club), shows where the proposed NYW&B extension to Danbury CT would have run. The tracks were never laid -- see the attached Google Maps excerpt.
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Yes, but there seems to be some taboo in having nyc transit lines travel beyond the city limits. In most other large American cities, transit lines DO cross city & county lines. The old Hudson & Manhattan RR (today's PATH) did (and does) travel between New York & New Jersey but this line was privately built.
The Hudson and Manhattan Railroad was also privately built.
I don't think it's a "taboo". It originally had to do with the operating parameters of the NYC Board of Transportation that ran the subways. I'm not sure if today's MTA gets around the restrictions.
I mean the MTA Metro-North and LIRR do travel outside of the city
This is the only known film of the NYWB, shot in 1937.
Kool video, I love the history Thx, ,,,,, I lived around this area for over 37 years, ,,222 street blow my mind, also Boston rd, ,,wish I could go back into time, 1939 ,
Most excellent; old NY, Westchester & Boston ril barn became the first NY Ranger practice facility. I got this from my uncle Edward P. Murphy (Fordham 41') who spent his first 5-10 years living in West Farms area of the Bronx
It is sad to watch the end of the railroad. Just sad.
Very cool and informative video. Enjoyed it very much and thank you for creating/uploading it !
You have the Unionport repair shops confused with the Van Nest shops on what is now the Amtrak NE Corridor (formerly the NHRR Harlem River Branch). The Van Nest shops became Con Ed. The former NYWB Unionport shops were used by the NYCTA's track department for many years, until the Unionport Yard (technically, the Unionport extension of the E. 180th Street yard complex aka the "new yard") was built in the 1990's. Sadly, the shop building was demolished.
Thanks for the great narration of a very interesting film. I grew up in New Rochelle, NY and i remember one time as a boy my uncle Ralph took me up to where the old Webster Ave Station once stood. All that was left was the concrete foundations. As a youngster what i most enjoyed then was the bunches of wild raspberries we found there.
The actual station house is in that strip of stores on the west side of Webster Avenue. They built the commercial strip to service commuters and the new neighborhood they expected to grow around the station.
That was amazing video. I sometimes see remnants in Westchester and New York City from the old Boston Westchester railroad
their is sort of a remnant of it at east 161st and washington avenue in the bronx, their is a underground that everyone can see, the tracks have been covered up with more ground and dirt and even grass
this footage is very depressing though
I love seeing the Van Nest and Morris Park areas of The Bronx on film from this era
Loved it!
I have been so tempted to explore the abandoned NYNH&H spur in Port Chester - the one that still goes over Highland Street to the driveway/parking lot at the Strauss Warehouse on Horton Ave. - though I am conscientious abut not trespassing, and all that stuff. So tempting though - to be able to walk an abandoned line right in my own neighborhood... a few years ago I almost did it - climbing the embankment on Highland Street - too many spider webs though. ~_~ ugh...
This sure would be handy and highly desired now if still in existence. ..the lack of a Manhattan terminal did cause grief for the line...very sad
No Manhattan access it was never going to be viable. Worthwhile, yes, but no Manhattan access, that would have been a huge struggle.
That may be one of the two truss spans that are on the IRT Pelham Bay line (the 6 train) just north of the Whitlock Avenue station.
Definitely gonna use this vid as a reference when I build the NYW&B for the Trainz train simulator. :D
There is a fairly a large stretch and a concrete train bridge span North Highbrook Avenue still standing in Pelham NY. There is talk of turning it into a Hi-Line Park.
Very informative. But painful to watch.
Very cool .!!!!!!
Amazing.
WOW! I never knew that the unused E180st station where they use as a layup now for the 2/5 trains was part of the Westchester and Boston line! I remember the elevated bridge that use to travel south almost to the Cross Bronx Expressway but it was torn down right before it reached the highway. I never knew that it kept going and connected to the Amtrak line.
The long abandoned station at Westchester Ave. next to the bridge over the Bronx River is still there (it was in rough shape when I moved away from the area in 1961!) but the stairways to track level and the platforms are long gone. The station building at Hunts Point Ave. also still exists and is home to several businesses.
It's sad that this fine railroad had to be dismantled, today this would have been a great way to travel this has got to be one of the city's biggest mistakes they ever made second only to the removal of the 3 rd Ave elevated.
It may have been okay to take down the 3rd Ave El but not putting in a replacement subway was a rcrime.
It wouldn't have made it to Boston, but certainly would have provided a useful service to the postwar-booking Westchester County. The removal of the 3rd Avenue El made the NYW&B's Bronx terminal location problematic, though.
Also very cool that the 'abandonded' platform/station at Westchester ave is still there, I assume to be part of the NYW&B line!
Very interesting🙂
Grew up in white plains, went to school just up the hill from where the mamaroneck Ave station on white plains was. This footage makes me wonder what could have been
Remembering the family car rides on the Hutchinson River Pkwy parallel to the NH tracks in Westchester county. Also the Gun Hill Station to go to HS and Yankee stadium in 67-71
Interesting to see Port Chester in 1937.
Man I wish I could ride the NYW&B
You can, if you ride an IRT 5 train from E. 180th Street to Dyre Avenue.
@@pbatommy I know that
This video is extremely difficult for me to watch. You get into "what-if's", and "why didn'ts", and "if only's" and a whole lot of questions. Clearly, the builders of the NYW&B had the future growth in the area pegged to a tee.
I have a friend that has videos of some of the ruins its pretty cool this is amazing you have a great piece here! I love the history of it, it went Broke becuase JP morgan spent 1,000,000 a mile in 1912. which is 20million a mile today
WOuld you mind sharing the videos?
It's wild that you can kinda sorta see where I-95 eventually ended up. Also, it would have been so neat if the White Plains branch still existed.
1:51 Bascule bridge closed permanently due to a new pedestrian bridge next to it blocking Bronx River vessels.
No Port Morris, Casanova or Hunts Point Station.
It is a narrow river that runs through Westchester County and the Bronx.
I live near the former 6th Street (now Sanford BLVD) station which was demolished to put in a MacDonald's and the bridge for my street was removed and then filled in with soil then paved but they did not wait long enough for the soil to settle and part of it sags almost a foot or so. The rest of the former rail line space is occupied by a housing complex (I witnessed its construction), supermarket and various other businesses starting at Kingsbridge Road to Columbus Ave. The Third Street Station house still exists and is (ironically) used as (or was) a club for local transit (bus) workers. The Mount Vernon Public Library used to have a wall mounted map of the city with the route of the railroad and its stations.
I heard the East Third St. station was condemned and demolished despite attempts to save and rehab it. True? (Posted 10/7/19)
@@countrypaul True.
Mt. Vernon's former - NYW&B Third Street Station was recently-demolished (April 2012 Google street view).
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Strange, but nice looking old MU cars, they look almost like they're part of the much newer Steampunk thing. Would've loved to hear the sound they made, growling traction motors, ticking air compressors, just my sort of thing. Worked with old MU cars here in England for British Railways Southern Region, they ran on a 3rd rail at 750V DC. Happy days. Sadly practically all the old MU cars we had were remorselessly scrapped around the early 2000's. With their maually operated swing doors the health and safety nazis said they were "unsafe" and had "crashworthiness issues" utter crap. All replaced by souless plastic trains.
I agree. I missed not actually riding the "slam doors'",-----if that's what you're referring to. These coaches, however, I think were Stillwells.
This sad scene was duplicated all over the United States in the '30s, '40s, '50s and '60s.
Can you imagine having to walk across local tracks to get to an express train today?
6:22 stupid question, but is he sure that is Larchmont, and not Mamaroneck station? Between the layout, some of the houses in the background, the station building, and the overpass abutment visible right before the shot changes to the Hutchinson River viaduct), it looks a LOT like Mamaroneck, but I could be wrong.
If you're a fan of the NYW&B or just curious, this is THE film about the railroad, and Roger Arcara was THE authority. Read on for some additional details about its operation.
Several commenters have asked why the NYW&B's terminal was at the bottom of the Bronx is an industrial area instead of in Manhattan. When the NYW&B was designed there was no real zoning in NYC; "downtown" continued to move uptown and was expected to make it to 125th Street shortly after the NYW&B opened. But zoning came in, "downtown" never made it to Harlem, and the NYW&B didn't have the money to bridge over or tunnel under the Harlem River to go under 125th to meet with other subways. Note that the NYW&B's terminal would have been an standalone orphan by 1955, when the 3rd Avenue El was removed south of E. 149th in the Bronx. The 2nd Avenue El was decades gone by then as well, and those lines were the Westchester's terminal connections. A wiser idea for the Westchester's survival and usefulness would have been to route their trains over the Hell Gate to Penn Station, but the PRR was a major New Haven and New York Central competitor in those pre-Penn Central times (and that forced merger didn't really work very well!).
Also, despite being initially thought of as the main line, the branch to North Avenue/New Rochelle was probably ultimately extraneous. (More below.) The line to White Plains made more sense as it competed with the New York Central's Harlem Division. Getting into Penn Station, had that been possible, would have been the key to success for the Westchester.
An alternate plan would have been to use existing construction track rights-of-way at the Columbus Avenus station in Mount Vernon to join with the NH and run Westchester trains to Grand Central.
Answering the question about paralleling the NHRR to Port Chester east of New Rochelle, NHRR trains were overcrowded as development in Westchester was initially close to that right-of-way. NHRR's ROW was six-tracks, but the NH only used four, so a parallel line owned by the NH with lower fares and a departure time about ten minutes before New Haven trains seemed to be a reasonable supplement to service. The idea never caught on because of the transfer to the El at a forlorn terminal and the additional time it added to the commute; the cost savings per trip just wasn't worth it.
By the way, originally the NYW&B tracks joined with the NHRR at a long gone tower east of the North Avenue station. I've seen one photo of the junction and the tower, said to be the only photographic documentation. The initial idea may have been a car interchange (remembering that the Westchester also had a little freight service as well), or perhaps an overlapping passenger service. However, no revenue trains were run through the junction, which was removed when the cheaply-built Port Chester extension opened, station by station, throughout the 1920s.
My Mother and I would ride the train up to Mamaroneck station to visit folks my mom worked for as a housekeeper when I was still a baby. We just called it the Boston & Westchester at the time. Possibly someone can tell me where that huge cavernous station was located in the Bronx after we took the Third Avenue el up there to get on the NYW&B. I remember walking down a long outdoor ramp from the el into this very large station - possibly in Hunt's Point somewhere?
Hello Chuck
I don't know WHAT happened, but I replied to you YESTERDAY (1-4-18) and today it is gone entirely !
The ONLY way you and your mother used the IRT 3rd Ave El and a long outdoor ramp to get to the NYW&B Railway -- was from the 3rd Ave El's south Bronx EL Express Station at E.133rd Street. That station was a two level station, two tracks one island platform upstairs for express trains, lower level likewise the same layout for local trains. You exited the EL train, walked south to the south end of the lower level platform at the fare mezzanine area to where the long covered ramp walkway to the NYW&B Willis Avenue Terminal "ramp station" began -- and along that long walkway which went into that large wooden station building -- walked east thru the building to a short platform that took you to the high level platforms of the older Willis Ave Terminal of the NYW&B Railway -- just past the east side of the Bronx road exit ramps from the Willis Avenue auto bridge.
Here below is LINK to a photo of that station, the covered walkway from it heading northwest towards the curving 3rd Avenue EL (and its trains) towards the E.133rd Street Station. As you see, that long covered walkway spanned the Hew Haven RR massive Freight yards, the EL's small layup yard, and E.133rd Street which the El crossover over.
click to view image: flic.kr/p/BkTUXc
Here is link to another image view looking east to the NYW&B original terminal station and platforms, from the platform walkway from the Covered walkway wooden terminal station waiting room and ticket office, which is immediately west behind the photographer on the other side of the overhead Willis Ave Bridge out of sight above..
click to view image: flic.kr/p/Aoyfwk
Here is the link to my NYW&B photos Albums on FLICKR
www.flickr.com/photos/136255242@N04/albums/with/72157660907413240
Roger Arcara and I were old friends and fellow NYW&B Historians long ago.
Regards - Joe F
That is correct. I failed to mention that New York City's subway motormen are PATH's engineers, befitting a label given to all conventional railroad "drivers".
I stop the video at 9:37 out of respect for the former employee. Anyway, it was an I'll conceive from.the start! as Metro North (or companies operating these these divisions, came before Westchester Boston railroad.
5:07 PIKE tower in the distance before it cuts to pulling into Rye station?
I don’t live too far from North Avenue in New Rochelle I live in the town of Eastchester
PATH is technically a railroad.
US Class 1A railroad
Do you have any footage re: New Rochelle?
Thanks but this is not in 2022? Wow b and w still works out there!
No wonder Westchester went out of business. They did the exact same thing, except Metro north did more. The only thing it appears that Westchester had over Metro north was the fact it had high platforms.
Metro-North was incorporated in 1983. This is the 1930's
They really should have kept the catenaries when the line was purchased by the IRT. Just my opinion.
They were left in place for about a year or so. They were removed, as were the express tracks, after the US entered WWII, for the metal.
@Craig F. Thompson So? The Blue Line in Boston uses both the overhead and the third rail. I can see the IRT trains using it as well had they kept the overhead lines.
NYW&B Catenary Tower No. 1, which once supported the interurban line's overhead electric catenary just north of where NYW&B diverged from the New Haven right-of-way, is still-standing (Google street view, September 2019).
Google coordinates (40.835241, -73.880060).
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00:45 I DON'T REMEMBER SEEING A CLICK THERE ON THE WALL WHEN I WAS THERE NUMEROUS TIMES.
02:00 N. Y. COLISEUM I ALWAYS KNEW THAT SITE AS A HUGE CITY BUS GARAGE .
A well-built line, too bad it did not last?
Thanks alot the union port repair station became con ed
With all the people and traffic we have today along this area this railroad would have been a godsend to the people who now live here, but why build a railroad that closely follows another railroad line is beyond me and no direct connection into NYC is another stupid decision this line might still be in operation if these decisions were different.
I think the configuration was that the NYWB trains were "commuter" trains and the New Haven trains were "long distance" at the time. And I think the OP obviously meant Manhattan. People in upstate New York always refer to Manhattan as "NYC" or "the city".
Re: the terminal, when the NYW&B was designed there was no real zoning in NYC; "downtown" continued to move uptown and was expected to make it to 125th Street shortly after the NYW&B opened. But zoning came in, "downtown" never made it to Harlem, and the NYW&B didn't have the money to bridge over or tunnel under the Harlem River to go under 125th to other subways. By 1955, it was a moot point anyway as the 3rd Avenue El had be cut back north to E. 149th in the Bronx. The 2nd Avenue El was long gone, and that would have been the Westchester's terminal connection. A wiser idea would have been to route the Westchester's trains over the Hell Gate to Penn Station, but the PRR was a competitor in those pre-Penn Central times. Also, despite being initially thought of as the main line, the branch to North Avenue/New Rochelle was probably extraneous. The line to White Plains made more sense as it competed with the New York Central's Harlem Division. Getting into Penn Station, had that been possible, would have been the key to success for the Westchester.
Re: paralleling the NHRR to Port Chester east of New Rochelle, NHRR trains were overcrowded as development in Westchester was close to that right-of-way. NHRR had a six-track right-of-way and was using four, so a parallel line owned by the NH with lower fares and a departure time about ten minutes before New Haven trains seemed to be a reasonable supplement to service.
Originally the NYW&B joined with the NHRR at a long gone tower east of the North Avenue station, but no revenue trains were run through the junction. The junction was removed when the cheaply-built Port Chester extension opened, station by station.
@@ss04to06: "NYC" (New York County, aka Manhattan).
Maybe that's a bridge too far.
I wonder if the railroad was necessary considering its short life.
What?! No 233rd and 241st stations?!?
Worthington station was on this line ??
No
pbatommy likes this.
WEST ST. STATION RIGHT BEHIND MY HOUSE
N O it goes into Westchester also it just gets smaller
This was a costly and adventurous scheme, the equipment all appears to have been of the highest standard, yet the line seems to have been fatally flawed from the outset in lacking a direct Manhattan route? The builders clearly hoped that traffic would follow, and no doubt it did - but in insufficient numbers or on other lines and in automobiles. Unfortunately the raw economics of profit or die prevailed at the time, which add the line's fascination. There are many "What if" scenarios, had it been able to survive at least partially?.To those in the know, I'd ask would it have been a successful or viable operation today? We in the UK saw government squander a similarly high capital cost project when they closed the Woodhead route in 1981. Whilst never viable for passenger traffic in its own right, it would have been a massively useful line for freight paths today.
I think it was a matter of build it and they will come. They were right. People did move to the region in droves, especially after WWll. Today's MTA New Haven and Harlem Lines are hard-pressed to meet the demands for service in the entire area that was served by the NYW&B. What if, what if, what if.
If you look carefully in much of the video (and of photographs of the line), much of the surrounding area north of Mt. Vernon was quite rural. Low population density made it difficult to sustain a profit and by the 1930s, more people had cars and opted to drive on the Hutch or BRP. For those who commuted by rail, the Harlem Line and NH were satisfactory alternatives. If not for the massive scrap metal drives, the road might have had a chance at survival as a joint state/city operation - perhaps not the Port Chester branch, but certainly the line to White Plains.
This narrator sounds like Dennis Prager.
This film is depressing.
At least we have this record of this wonderful railroad.
That's true.
Apparently NYC Mayor LaGuardia urged a state takeover to continue service but NY Gov. Lehman vetoed the idea.
Was not aware of that. Any more details?
No LaGuardia did not want the state to take over the West8. If the state took control, then the Bronx borough president would have a say in its operation, which the mayor didn't want. He really did not want to buy the line from E180 to Diria Ave. He used the money for the Concourse extension.
Theyre currenty doing a lot of digging on Quaker Ridge road where the old Fountain Head catering hall used to be. Approximately 1,000 feet following the ROW from where the North Ave station was. Im thinking of sneaking onto the property as there absolutely has to be remnants buried…. ties, concrete structures, rail spikes, etc. Fascinating but always kind of sad.