Demons, Angels, and Spiritual Gifts (with Sam Storms)
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- čas přidán 15. 07. 2024
- In this video I interview Sam Storms about spiritual gifts, spiritual warfare, and the Holy Spirit's work in our lives.
Sam's ministry: www.samstorms.org/
Understanding Spiritual Gifts: A Comprehensive Guide: www.amazon.com/Understanding-...
Understanding Spiritual Warfare: A Comprehensive Guide: www.amazon.com/Understanding-...
Practicing the Power: Welcoming the Gifts of the Holy Spirit in Your Life: www.amazon.com/Practicing-Pow...
Truth Unites is a mixture of apologetics and theology, with an irenic focus.
Gavin Ortlund (PhD, Fuller Theological Seminary) serves as senior pastor of First Baptist Church of Ojai.
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00:00 - Introduction
01:39 - Sam's Journey to Continuationism
08:10 - Theological Triage on Spiritual Gifts
12:24 - What About Abuses?
16:30 - The Purpose of Spiritual Gifts
18:02 - How Many Spiritual Gifts Are There?
20:38 - Can You Have More Than One Gift?
21:41 - Discerning Your Spiritual Gift
23:19 - The Fruit of Spiritual Gifts
28:29 - I Corinthians 14:3
29:13 - Discerning of Spirits
32:54 - Growing in Your Spiritual Gift
36:19 - Encouraging Spiritual Gifts at Church
41:16 - Stories of Spiritual Warfare
45:26 - What Are Demons?
47:59 - Assurance of Salvation
49:46 - Demons and Sickness
51:04 - Are Demons Territorial?
52:50 - How Demons Get a Foothold
55:58 - Freedom in the Gospel
58:13 - Ministry to the Demonized
1:00:09 - What About Angels?
Gavin's gonna turn me into a full blown charismatic in 1 hr, isn't he? JK. Just great interview, Gavin -- love your stuff!
Haha, love it! 🙂
A Charimatic that follows the Word, no excess, and has the proper reverence towards the Holy Spirit as a Person, will be a Pentecostal 🙂.
A fringe Pentecostal may be just as deluded as a Charismatic.
Excellent and so much needed! Growing up Pentecostal and Charismatic I feel like I've seen just about everything, good and bad. Consistent biblical teaching on spiritual gifts and spiritual warfare along with encouragemt and opportunities to step out in faith and practice spiritual gifts is so important. Thank you for this!
This is a necessary conversation for the body of Christ today.
I understand people can be anxious of "being associated with those cooky people," but the Bible seems to me clearly teaching the operating of the gifts today.
Lots of “orderly” Pentecostal churches around. Some Pentecostal churches won’t even allow speaking in tongues during Sunday worship.
@@ntlearning I believe speaking in tongues is fine *TO YOURSELF* during a worship service.
If I'm praying over something and I know not what to pray, I pray in tongues. If I'm praying for someone else, in my mind, I will pray for them in tongues, because God knows what to pray when I don't.
But I agree the speaking in tongues during worship in a disorderly manner isn't good
@@natebozeman4510Citation needed (in context please).
@@natebozeman4510
Well...we practice praying all at at the same time.
No one is eavesdropping at how you are praying.
@@natebozeman4510Yet interestingly, the founding denominations of Pentecostalism (Assemblies of God, Church of God, Foursquare Church) believe that speaking in tongues is the evidence of having the Holy Spirit and being saved.
Grew up in the Assemblies and my dad was part of the council, I remember them teaching that there are three kinds of tongues:
1. Speaking in tongues - the gift of speaking another human language.
2. Praying in tongues - the gift of praying in a heavenly angelic language.
3. Singing in tongues - which is to be used in corporate worship (1 Corinthians 14:15).
We practice both #2 and #3 every Sunday publicly because when we pray in a heavenly language, the Devil cannot understand it and therefore cannot hinder our prayers from reaching God. Singing in tongues on the other hand brings upon the destruction of Satan's kingdom in the heavenly realm.
news.ag.org/en/article-repository/spiritual-life/2019/05/faq-speaking-in-tongues
kidsinministry.org/can-satan-understand-pray-tongues/
Great information!. Sadly most Christians don't want to hear anything about this subject and even MORE sad most PASTORS don't want to touch this subject. I had a Methodist pastor stand in our kitchen and tell me point blank that he didn't believe that Satan actually existed. We left that church and started attending an evangelical Free church. We had close to 30 years of excellent expository teaching from a pastor who wasn't afraid to teach on this subject. ❤
"You will never find a more loving person than the Holy Spirit. He is Safe, He is Kind, He's not always Comfortable, but He's Good. He loves you." I think hearing you say this Gavin, I've realised that in part I have been afraid of the Holy Spirit. Hearing you speak _so_ warmly about him really moved me (I paused the video and write this!) in a way that I had knowledge of his goodness, but I hadn't embraced an experience of his goodness like you have. Gonna need to work with him on this... I haven't been cynical, but before I was a believer, growing up in a church that sought to manipulate the work of the Spirit and saw some frankly scary things for a primary-schooler, I've preferred to shy away from His work in me and in the church. When your conversation quotes scripture (a few minutes earlier than this) saying "eagerly desire the gifts of the spirit, including prophesy" - I haven't, I've been eagerly avoiding (like Sam said he did when he received the gift of tongues!). Thanks for the blessing of this conversation.
I am so glad to hear you are a continuationist. I am from a Pentecostal background, striving to connect to the ancient church. I'm so happy to see that I can keep my Pentecostal roots, while pursuing the ancient church. It is difficult to find a fellowship that is like minded.
One of my favourite interviews thus far. Having never heard of Sam Storms, it was a pleasure to hear of his experiences and ministry. I am always interested to hear of genuine spiritual gifts and occurrences as there are so many plainly and evidently false examples (as you both spoke of in the video) which had previously made me skeptical of certain particular gifts. However, I have always believed these things occur in various forms as Scripture tells us, and also loosely from my own experiences in coming to Faith, but examples such as tongues and miraculous healings I was always skeptical of due to the amount of false examples and amount of people who are disingenuous in their intent (money seeking) when claiming to use these gifts, and also the proven use of stooges and acting to basically do magic shows of healings and other such things (we've all seen the video clips).
But, hearing people such as Sam gives brings me great happiness knowing their are people speaking truthfully about such things, using these gifts properly, and educating others about the correct usage and understanding of these matters, including the angelic/demonic, which there isn't enough discussion about amongst protestants.
Thankyou as always Gavin, your ministry has been of immense use and impact upon me and my life, you truly are being lead strongly by God.
May the Lord bless you and yours abundantly in all your endeavours.
From a Christian (Anglican) guy pursuing collared ministry in Church of England †
Glad you enjoyed it, God bless you in your ministry!
Knowing there**
autocorrect changing the various uses of there/their/they're and putting them in the wrong context without my noticing is the bane of my life haha... I should proofread comments.
Another great video Gavin, thanks
This was great! So encouraging to be reminded about our authority in Christ. And I’m definitely looking at that book!
Thanks for adressing this topic! Sound teaching on spiritual gifts are important. Great video!
Good to see a Protestant perspective here as the orthodox and catholic circles tend to speak of this more often. Haven’t really found much of an organized approach to this from Protestants, just bits and pieces here and there. This helps. Thanks!
The Remnant Radio channel has a wealth of sound teaching on this subject. Sam is closely associated with them. Jack Deere who was mentioned early on in the video is another good resource. He has the books Surprised by the Power of the Spirit and Why I Am Still Surprised by the Power of the Spirit, if I recall the titles correctly.
Also, I will add that much of the Protestant movement towards cessationism may be traced back to being a response to the radical reformers and especially Munster ca. 1534. People who took these doctrines and ran with them (especially tongues and prophecy) caused massive damage to not just the Church but the wider society. Early reformers like Luther, Calvin and Knox seem to have experienced what might be described as charismatic gifts at various times, but those radicals who tried to clothe their antinomianism and outright heresy in the work of the Spirit did massive damage.
@@yankeegonesouth4973 appreciate you. Thanks!
@@jordand5732 Likewise. You're welcome~
Hey Can i suggest David Diga hernandez(encounter tv)
It's in CZcams.
Thank you Gavin and Sam.
Sam Storms is the man! His books are great. I read his recent one on spiritual gifts. Very good. Based on scripture.
This was so good, I couldn't stop watching it.
Thank you for doing this interview and for encouraging believers to know their authority in Christ and to desire more of the Holy Spirit!
This was great
Love both of these guys. Great to see them together!
Awesome convo of two of my favourite bible teachers 👍🏾
Excited to watch. I plan on reading one of his books this year in my study of continuationism & cessationism.
In 1988 I had a really bad ski accident. I fell over 1200 feet on a 40 degree slope. Fractured my skull in 6 places which resulted in frontal lobe contusions. I was air lifted by helicopter to Vancouver General Hospital and I was conscious for 7 hours before I had a blood clot removed from the base of my brain. I woke up in neuro intensive care and had no idea what had happened. I was healed on the operating table because the Lord heard the prayers of the many many brothers and sisters who were praying for me one of which had a vision from the Lord while the surgeon was doing his work. She was told that he was having a difficult time removing the clot and the group continued in deep prayer. No one laid hands me. It was through prayer. Do I believe that miracles still happen???!!. 🤣 BTW. I was 33 when that happened. No coincidence with that age!.❤️❤️❤️
Great interview and questions!
Thankful for you both. Great conversation.
Sam's book on Spiritual Gifts is great!
I agree.
Oh, looking forward to this! 😁
Definitely worth thinking about. His case challenges a number of my assumptions
Very very helpful. Thank you!
Dr. Ortlund you really should read Unseen Realm by Michael Heiser. I think it will really change how you look at some passages of scripture. In this video you alluded to demons possibly having dominion over nations in some instances. Heiser gets deep into that in his book.
Was wondering when Heiser would be mentioned in the comments lol. I've really been blessed by his ministry.
@NorthernWaters3 Yes, I saw when he posted. Hopefully he enjoys his last days with his family and God takes him with minimal pain/suffering.
Another good book is Return of the Gods by Johnathan Cahn
Another "near miss" is when the 72 (or 70) disciples sent out are mentioned @56:20. That ties directly to the territorial question.
It has me curious if either of these gentlemen have seen Heiser's view (and of course many others throughout history, including Jews) that demons are actually the disembodied spirits of the fallen Nehphilim. Whereas the fallen elohim are different entities all together.
Faith hope and love, these are the gifts we should desire to grow in them.
Love Sam Storms
A discussion between you and a cesationist would be interesting to listen to as a follow-up.
Dear Gavin, I have been listening to this interview and while listening being encouraged to seek spiritual gifts even more. I would describe myself as a Pentecostal Calvinist, but because of some influences, I have been very neglectful of the gifts of the Spirit and the power of prophecies in the church. However, I read more about Lloyd Jones and his theology about Baptism in the Spirit and Spiritual gifts, and after listening to this podcast I have been encouraged by the Lord to continue seeking the gifts for the ministry of the church, for the benefit of the body of Christ.
Greetings brother!
Amen. I am thankful to hear that, man. I understand how so many can be turned off by the gifts due to what they see when people abuse them; however, they are available for the church. And should most deff seek them.
Once again Gavin awesome interview! Could you look into bringing on Johnathan Cahn. His book Return Of The Gods explains alot on this topic!
While I know you have been focusing on other topics lately, I would love if you could do a video defending spiritual gifts from history. It seems as though that aspect is lacking in many of these conversations.
Charles Sullivan recently released a book arguing that the gift of tongues was totally absent from history and I think he mis-interprets several of the church fathers. Info like this would be great to push back on.
amazing concise ty
Great video. Basically, go back to the word of God and believe what is written and believe like the followers of Jesus did his days and do it
Seems simple, but it’s really not. I agree with you, but today, you have many “influential “ pastors within Protestantism that don’t believe in these things, yet they’re very well respected by others who do. Protestantism isn’t just read your Bible and believe is for what it says because we have so groups within who disagree. But I do understand your point, truth is it’s just not that simple within Protestantism
"Miracles Today" by Craig S. Keener. Encouraging source.
I can't wait to get my hands on that book.
I have a friend who for several years( still is but has cut me out of her life) after participating in reiki and other demonic practices had physical possession. I worked with her and another brothe in Christ for 2 years and nothing worked. She did struggle back and forth going back to these practices which we told her would only continue to harm her. She changed and became so depressed and trapped she was suicidal. She was physically checked by drs and mental health professionals and none of that was the issue it was definitely spiritual. she could physically feel this spirit moving and taking over her body and would get very disturbing vibration sensations that would exhaust her and was uncomfortable. There was a time for several months we prayed and read Gods word everyday. We looked for help in many churches she went to nany deliverance ministries snd absolutely nothing. She told me she was a Christian when she turned 18 but later went down the new age path in her 20s and 30s. When all this happened i told ger right away she needed to really give alll that stuff up abd turn to Jesus fully , she said she did but she would still struggle completely leaving all those other practices alone because of how desperate she became in getting delivered which never happened. She just all of sudden stopped talking to me and our other brother in Christ we can not find her anywhere yet we still continue to pray for her. I am extremely worried about her and sad by the fact i never saw her free
I'm terribly sorry to hear this. Unfortunately, deliverance isn't always easy. It can be one of two things: (1) the part of the minister, and/or (2) on part of the one receiving ministry. I truly hope she gets delivered. Demons are wicked and deceitful tormentors.
@@ProphetGreg94 I appreciate your love and kindness. Yes it really is no joke. I honestly fear it's on her side. She recently got in touch with us to inform us that she has now chosen to reject God but I know that God can do anything! I know he can bring her out of this. We will continue to pray without ceasing !
The more i listened it seem to me Gift is as a Seed that need to be cultivated. All God's Gift are good and beneficial so is every good Seed but it is up to us to cultivate it.
I am very, VERY skeptical of speaking in tongues. At least how it is practiced in most churches where it is all gibberish. I used to be a charismatic Pentecostal when I went to hyper charismatic and prosperity gospel churches, but I have since been disenchanted. That being said, I can buy some of the things he said like prophecy still occurring, although it should not be viewed on the same level as scripture 👍 interesting talk!
I wonder if there are any Protestant excircist like the Catholic one on bertuzzis channel
Thank you Dr. Ortland for this conversation! As someone who has made the Biblical trek from Cessationist to Contiuationist over the past year-and-a-half, I greatly appreciate this dialogue with Dr. Storms.
One area that still confuses me is how we Biblically and historically define the gift of tongues. From what I have been able to research, neither the New Testament nor church history appear to support the manifestation of tongues as ecstatic utterances (glossolalia), but rather known tongues (even if unknown to the speaker). To me, this is why understanding the mainstream historic Church's interpretation of 1st Corinthians 12-14 and this gift are so critical. The arguments supporting a glossolalia-style tongue seem to rely upon shaky exegetical and anecdotal argumentation that don't match up with church history. The debate in history seems to be over whether the gift of tongues functioned as a gift of supernatural speech or supernatural hearing.
Maybe Dr. Ortlund, or someone else in the comments, can speak to the historicity of the gift of tongues as we define it today? Please note: my intention is not to take shots at brothers / sisters or invalidate their experience. My questioning about tongues is for the purpose of properly exegeting 1st Corinthians 14.
Dr. Luke Timothy Johnson, an acclaimed biblical scholar, has written about the religious experience of the earliest Christians and discussed glossolalia in that. An expanded form of his book is available as a “Great Course” via Audible (and many public libraries). Also, Mark J. Cartledge has edited a volume on the topic in “Speaking in Tongues: Multi-Disciplinary Perspectives” I hope those are helpful.
@@DigitalTheologian Appreciate the resources! I’ll check them out.
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Eph. 6:10-18
What about so called modern day "apostles"? I see no Scriptural support for this, since according to Ephesians 2:20 the apostles are part of the foundation of the church. If the foundation was established in the first century, wouldn't that office have ceased since the foundation is finished? Is the foundation of the church still being laid?
There are definitely different types/classes of spiritual beings, and they can manifest varying levels of malevolence or beneficence. It is probably helpful to borrow some modern terms for taxonomic purposes: below normal consciousness/wakefulness, there are several levels of actuality that are often labeled "astral", below which are levels of dream, and at the bottom you get to the chthonic realm (death/Sheol/Hades); above normal consciousness are the etheric levels approaching the celestial realm (Heaven). Beings of both alignments manifest at the various levels through various means. They can also traverse these levels: recall Jacob's ladder, with angels ascending and descending. It seems that the etheric/celestial levels are used primarily by beneficent beings while the lower levels are used primarily for malevolent beings, but there are exceptions.
We know that the devil, the seraphim, was cast down to rule the chthonic realm (the kingdom of dust/ashes) as a result of his rebellion embodied in Eden. (A seraph is a serpentine heavenly being.) On the other hand, the satan was the archangel of death, Samael, dispatched at Passover to kill the Egyptians; with Christ's victory over the devil, trampling death by death, Samael no longer has a legitimate role sending people to Hades. These two beings are not the same, even though the passage in Revelation is often translated to associate them as one entity, but they are allied in their roles: the satan and his legions tempt people into sin, which leads to increasing death, which is the dominion of the devil. The satan is described as a principality of the air, an etheric being like the principality of a place or government institution, while the devil is a chthonic being.
For a practical example of these distinctions, the USSR increased death (the devil) upon the earth through top-down (satanic) exertion of the state's dominion, and it was supported from the bottom up by manipulating the basest instincts of the flesh (fear of death/torture). The principalities of the USSR were supported by ritual/liturgical actions: parades, Stalin as an icon to be venerated in every government office, etc -- it completely displaced the Russian Orthodox Church in ordinary life.
Reality is symbolic: the meeting of meaning and matter -- identity is emanated from the top-down to cover material existence, and ritual emergence from the bottom-up embodies meaning. In this way, the devil and the satan participate together in this top-down, bottom-up synergy. In a similar way, the Church Militant participates with the Church Triumphant: we are joined to heavenly places in worship. Theosis also requires this synergistic action, because this is how reality is -- it is not works or faith alone: works embody faith, and faith gives identity to works.
Hopefully this helps make sense of things. Correct me if I've made any mistakes.
The discussion of angels is interesting in the context of saints in the Orthodox tradition. All the same caveats apply. The main differences are that angels, as agents of God, can also intercede in the Orthodox view (supported by Jacob's ladder and Enoch 1 Book of the Watchers, among others), so it is appropriate to ask for their intercessions, and that the saints take on the role of agents of God similar to angels (supported by various New Testament passages, e.g. Paul's epistles and the passage in Revelation of the souls of saints under the altar crying out to God), so they also can receive one's supplication to intercede. Again, all the same caveats apply: Christ must be the center of one's spiritual and liturgical life, and if it becomes an impediment, better to cut it off than let it become gangrene.
The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. He did a lot of warning. Out of love.
How can a demon dwell in the same body where the Holy Spirit dwells? I'm not trying to be divisive.
Seek to grow in grace knowledge etc.
Very excited for this! As a fellow Oklahoman I am glad to see some solid representation (though, I am a cowboy rather than a sooner so there is a divide there haha)
This is one issue I am not settled on. I am definitely for the idea that the spirit still works miracles in the church, but my main concern is specifically the gift of tongues. To the best of my knowledge the original charismatic movements in the US believed that the gift of tongues was like that given at Pentecost, that is the gift of actual languages, but when this was proven false in the mission field this was reinterpreted. If this isn’t the case, why does the modern gift of tongues appear so different from the understandable tongues given at Pentecost?
Hope this is addressed in the video!
hope you enjoy! This was more practical in its focus than making arguments for cessationism; however, Sam did a dialogue on Capturing Christianity recently in which he addressed that argument, I think
Hi brother,
The miracle at Pentecost had to have been something different from the gift of tongues experienced in the Corinthian church. In 1 Corinthians tongues are incomprehensible to all or most, while in Acts tongues are understood by all with no need for interpretation. That's my understanding anyway.
1 Corinthians 14:2 (NIV)
For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.
1 Corinthians 14:27-28 (NIV)
27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two-or at the most three-should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret.
28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.
---
Acts 2:1-13 (NIV)
1 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place.
2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting.
3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them.
4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.
6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken.
7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans?
8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language?
9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome
11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs-we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”
12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”
13 Some, however, made fun of them and said, “They have had too much wine.”
The New Testament describes different types of tongues, some in the tongues of men, some in the tongues of angels, etc. Also, in the book of Acts, it doesn't say the people speaking tongues were themselves speaking other languages, but that the people listening heard them speak in their own languages. One of the "Left Behind" movies has an interesting scene that depicts how Tongues could be not a language per se but rather sound waves that The Holy Spirit then works upon to turn them into the language of the hearers. For example, I might speak in Tongues, and three people all might hear me in three different languages. The sound I am making might sound like jibberish, but what I am doing is just making sound waves upon which The Holy Spirit Acts upon, turning them into different languages for as many different hearers are present.
@@TruthUnites PSALM 92 WRITTEN BY ADAM RISHON? On the channel HEBREW LITERACY. Check out that video it's by a messianic rabbi explaining the hebrew text. It's interesting because it's THE SONG OF SHABBAT and it would have been sung by the apostles while Jesus was in the tomb. The rabbi doesn't make this connection in the video, but the Psalm actually speaks the spiritual warfare at the resurrection. You can connect it clearly with the first four chapters of Hebrews and if can translate that back into hebrew you see how Jesus fulfilled the Sabbath because he is now SEATED IN SHABBAT at the right hand of power until his enemies are made his foot stool. You can connect the dots with the spiritual warfare in Ephesians. And you can connect the dots with Matthew 16 because the SHABBAT=COMPLETION in the ROCK. This also connects with Psalm 22 because IT IS FINISHED is the definition of shabbat, I also think it's a translation of the last line of Psalm 22 HE HAS DONE IT, the rabbi in the video also gives another explanation of why Jesus says ELI ELI ...my God my God...
It gets even better, also check out ONE FOR ISRAEL, IS THE NEW TESTAMENT WRONG ABOUT THE SON OF MAN IN DANIEL? All those dots connect with Psalm 92.
And to the subject of Speaking in tongues because in 1 Corinthians Paul quotes from Isaiah 28 and in Isaiah it explains how it's a sign and what it is a sign of THE REST AND REFRESHING, again, shabbat language. Pentecost in Hebrew is SHAVUOT or Shabuot which is a variation of shabbat. The Sabbath is a gift and down payment just like shabbat is spoken of, and the tongues are a sign that THEY HAVE RECEIVED THE SPIRIT AS WELL AS WE HAVE (that is from Acts) and that the separation is removed and the curse of BABEL is ended, that connects Matthew 16 and pentecost, Peter spoke by the spirit both times and the spirit of shabbat makes the same declaration both times. That connects Eliakim because the new kahol like dueteronomy 4:10 is made by the spirit writing Torah on the heart, the keys to the kingdom in all tongues hung on the one peg that was cut off which is Christ.
@@taylorbarrett384 angels spoke the language if men everytime they appeared to them
We never seem to see the ministry of killing the hypocrites like Peter had in Acts.
Oh you of little faith!
If you are living in Christ, and His Words are living in you, then pray for whatever you want in faith and it will be done for you.
The Lord once called me to lay my hands on a woman who had been paralyzed on half her side from a stroke for over 3 years.
I laid hands on her and prayed for her and anointed her with oil, and life was restored to her limbs, her arm, her leg, her fingers and toes, which had all been paralyzed for over 3 years.
Praise the Lord our God! Holy is His Name!
For more information about angels and demons listen to The Lord of Spirits podcast.
Angels are not "before Creation because they are Created Beings, John Milton made it popular to believe otherwise'.
55:00 in the NKJV and ESV it says the boy was afflicted "from childhood" (not infancy) and with the girl, nothing is stated. We don't know exactly how old they were when first afflicted or what influences they may have been exposed to. Guess I'm really not comfortable with this idea of involuntary possession, especially not a theory of ancestral possession... Are there any more Scriptural references that lend support to it?
Legit question… Scripture tells us to “test the Spirit”. It’s easy to test a Specific prophecy. Either it comes true, or it doesn’t. BUT, how our we suppose to “test” Generic “prophetic words”, like for example:
“God gave me a word for you, he’s telling me he’s about to move big in your family.”
“The Lord told me, in a vision, 2024 will be a big year in the Church”
“Thus sayeth the Lord, many will cry out to Me this year.”
To me, that’s the sign of someone who is just reciting vague statements… not prophecy, and attempting to attribute it God. But, almost ALL of the well known “prophets” in the Charismatic movement say thing’s EXACTLY like this constantly. How is that “testable”??
Christians cannot be demon posessed
Prelest.
Prophets of the Old Testament were often prophesying warnings, merciful warnings from God for people to turn from their current path. Today people take that as criticism and hate. You can’t say prophesy is only uplifting and encouraging words. Not biblically.
I have had multiple people state their evidence of speaking in tongues empowers them to battle demons and spiritual realm and those without tongues cannot. Any thoughts?
I would be interested to see Gabin discuss this topic (and tangentially the NAR & prosperity gospel) with Chris Roseburough of Fighting for the Faith.
Wimber and the Vineyard did a lot of weird things. Why is he favorable to him?
Did you notice that you said never will the Spirit have you say anything mean because the gifts are meant to build up?
And then right afterwards you ask Sam about the discernment gift and his very first example is Paul, discerning elymas, and calling him wicked?
Just a thought ... If the enemy causes you to doubt your assurance, consider the Scripture at John 5:24 which reads ...
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Your assurance is based on what God said about you, not how you feel or are made to feel. Feelings are fleeting. God's word is set. If you trusted that the shed blood of Christ took away your sin then you are a Child of God. Performance only affects your rewards at the Judgment Seat where God will brag on you.
I can follow along with all the ideas of spiritual gifts continuing, etc, right up until people start describing what they think an impressive or important demonstration of spiritual gifting is. No disrespect intended, but I simply cannot wrap my head around the idea of people thinking words like "Someone associated with initials JP is struggling with sin!!!" is remotely miraculous or even helpful. Maybe it would be more helpful to hear more about HOW this specifically edifies the church, because "it gives Christians a good feeling" is just not enough for me. I can see how the woman with demonic influences being saved is a great result, and I can see how revelations of sin can lead to repentance and restored relationships, but these are not 95% of the stories I hear. Most of them are like the one my mom told me from her church, where a woman stood up and proclaimed all the wombs in the room "open" because someone was infertile. My post -menopausal mom said, "Please leave me out of it, though, Lord!!!" 😁
Just watched “The Pope’s Exorcist” and it got me wondering about the Protestant’s position on exorcisms. So many questions: Is it a spiritual gift? Are there special prayers ? Can a believer in Christ be possessed? I’d be interested in a video or material on the subject
Google the following:
Bugenhagen Luther Chemnitz Possession Exorcism
You'll be able to download a pdf which explains that Roman Catholic exorcisms aren't genuine.
Also Luther in one of his sermons explains why Roman Catholic exorcisms are fraudulent and deceptive:
"Here someone might ask, How does it happen that wicked scoundrels, charlatans, sorcerers, and exorcists often cast out devils? This the devil does, God never. I have personally seen a man who was filled with devils, yet the priest who exorcised him was so sure he was on safe ground that he put his finger into the man's mouth and said, I dare you, bite! How can it be other but that one devil casts out another? St. Paul gives the answer (2 Thess. 2:9) that in the last days the devil will work signs, but they will be false signs. Therefore, the exorcism of the exorcist is false and not like Christ's exorcism. For even though the devil does come out, he does not do it in order to further the gospel but that he might strengthen people in idolatry and lead them away from faith, so that they fall completely from Christ. The devil possessed both of them, the poor man and the exorcist, and it can well be that the poor man was more upright and pious than the exorcist who cast out the devil, even though God admonished the poor man to discipline the flesh. When a devil comes out, he does it in order to aid another devil, to promote error, idolatry, and other abominations in people's hearts. For example, possessed individuals were brought to St. Cyriacus, St. Anstadt, and other saints, for the purpose of casting out a devil. However, the devil did not come out because he was compelled and was forced to retreat, but willingly and gladly, in order thus to strengthen the person's idolatry. Moreover, he has pretended at times to be very fearful of consecrated candles, consecrated salt, water, and other things, while his only interest in such pretense was to strengthen people in their superstition, so that there might be less likelihood of their coming to true faith and trust in God's Word and grace. Accordingly, these signs were, as Paul calls them, mendacia signa, "fictitious, lying wonders and signs," and pretense.
In order, therefore, really to distinguish the genuine and true signs from the false, lying wonders, as when Christ and his apostles cast out devils by means of the Word, we must look at the devil's ultimate intent for exorcising himself and for positioning himself to do this sort of thing. Where the exorcism is a truly serious matter, that the devil should come out in order to verify the divine Word, to the glory and strengthening of Christian faith, he will then balk and resist being cast out. It's the same with the pope and the fanatics, and their conjuring with the cross, consecrated water, salt, and other things; the devil in fact remains unexorcised there; he does not yield unless he does it voluntarily. He indeed cannot tolerate God's Word being attested to, truth being comprehended, and Christian faith being strengthened.
But when it's to his own advantage to come out, in order to promote his lies, so that the ungrateful world which refuses to call upon Christ can be persuaded to intercede with the saints and fall deeper into superstition, he then may allow a wicked rascal to be exorcised. Thus he can make the blind again to see, the deaf again to hear, the lame again to become whole. For this is not happening for the glory of Christ and his gospel, in order to confirm the truth but in order to confirm his lies, that people might place their trust in monkery, intercession of the saints, pilgrimages, vigils, masses, and the like as being holy things. For this reason he is so favorably disposed toward them. In short, the devil is never at loggerheads with himself; for if his lying charade is to continue, he is very ready to let himself be exorcised. But it is a deception played out under cover in order to deceive and seduce the world. When, however, exorcism progresses to the point where the finger of God is manifested and the kingdom of heaven draws near, there he resists as long as he can, as Christ states in the parable about the strong man who was fully armed."
(pp. 342,343, Vol. V, The Complete Sermons of Martin Luther, Baker Book House, 2000)
the Bible is pervaded with miracles and spiritual gifts all through the scriptures. We need to stop being so afraid of what is clearly in the Holy Writ. If we are truly sola scriptura, then it is the case that MUST affirm such gifts, whether with or without experience. The theological hand that rocks the cradle rules the church. Check what your upbringing is. So often we insert out prejudices, biases, traditions, and presuppositions into the text without even realizing it. This is why I find that so many cessationists fail to affirm what the Bible clearly affirms on the gifts of tongues.
Very difficult for me to listen to Sam with the craziness that surrounding the hypercharismatics and the abuses.
I find it worth noting that Paul in 1 Cor 13 kind of reels the church in regarding the gifts - something that also has to be done today. Paul says that even though there are gifts, don't have an over-focus on them; love is greater. He thought the church needed the lesson of the spiritual hierarchy that has love, faith , and hope above sign gifts. After that, Paul continues on with more coaching on the gifts - he says prophecy is greater than tongue speaking; and feels it necessary to assist them in being more orderly in how they use the gifts. A weak point also in modern charismatic churches.
I point this out to say, disorder and over-emphasis on the gifts was a weak point and potential pitfall in the 1st century church, even. So, bad experience in modern Charmismatic churches is not an argument that the gifts have ceased.
(Maybe you're not making this cessationist argument, Wulff)
@@deesteven you are right, I am not making the cessationist argument. All I see is abuse and fake gifts and the adherence to Word of Faith and Prosperity Gospel. Last week a paralyzed man was 'healed' because he showed normal paralytic spasms. Declare, decree,....
And I have not seen one legitimate deliverance ministry.
Having gone to a pentacostal church here in Canada for 10 years ....i have expérienced alot of exagération & just false prophecies .....especially when Vineyard came to my church .....CHAOS❗....people rolling on the Ground '' in the Spirit'' ....some making animal sounds as '' speaking in tongues ....Although i believe God can do anything .....WE MUST BE VERY CAREFUL ...... The bible Says ....to discern and retain what is good concerning prophecies.....i believe many many brothers & sisters....speak false tongues made up by them.....although i believe some believers have a genuine gift of tongues .....God can heal ...i met also a sister in Christ who had such a POWERFUL gift of discernement ...she told me all my personnal hidden secrets while praying with me....i was AMAZED ....led me to repent of many things ....of course ...God can do the impossible...
But WE MUST BE VERY CAREFUL ....
and delicerance from démons in the name of Jésus is true also of course
WE HAVE TO JUDGE THE FRUIT ...i left and went to Baptist who rejected gifts ....now i am somewhere in the middle .....i alwayts believed that God is God and do whatever He wants
This person is affiliated with Mike Bickel from IHOP church.
He was also the president of the evangelical theological society
if you can believe in a God, you already believe in the supernatural. why not, then, consider other supernatural elements of the bible (angels, demons, miracles of many forms, gifts of the spirit, etc) ?
What’s the difference between the Monantists in the early 2nd century and the present day charismatics? It seems like the believe the same things
Monantists believed en mass that the words that they spoke were to be heeded like scripture. Virtually No one offering a word of encouragement, consolation or exhortation feels that their words should not be judged and prayerfully considered.
It’s VERY unfair to say at 11:30 ish that cessationists either disregard or disobey Paul’s instructions in Corinthians. We understand prophecy to mean something different than continuationists. We aren’t disobeying, we are disagreeing. Sam’s comment is really saddening.
I'm not a cessationist because Paul said in 1 COR 13:13 that the gifts of faith, hope, and love remains. But after the church reached maturity and confirmed by signs and wonders as in the days of Moses (Micah 7:15) they are no longer necessary. They served their purpose Eph 4:13 says "until we attain the unity of the faith" nasb. Special attention to the word "until" that is not an everlasting word. Paul said tongues would cease and knowledge done away. My take is that after the Helper reminded them of Jesus teachings and they were written down we now have the complete, the full new testament. Faith, hope and love abides
Eph 4:11-15 doesn't separate the office of prophet as ceasing at a different time from the other offices listed - pastor, evangelist, etc. These offices are still helping us build the church into the high bar that Paul states these offices are intended to mature the church into: "until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, *to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ* . As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of people, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, *we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, that is, Christ* , "
This is a really high bar that Paul says these offices are useful in building us up to.. Pastors are still building the church up to try to hit those levels. This process hasn't culminated. So the passage doesn't support cessationism.
Similarly with the passage in 1 Corinthians 13 stating when the gifts will cease..A really high bar is stated that we can't say we've hit. Here is the bar -
"For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known."
Paul said he saw in a mirror dimly - so, you know Christ better than Paul? Not just by a little - Paul is stating it's a huge leap from looking at the mirror, to face to face knowledge. You'll know Christ as you're fully known, wow. While Paul didn't. I know I haven't hit this high bar.
We all have to admit we're still looking in the mirror as we're clothed by Christ..The mirror is dim because we're not perfect and he is, even though we're clothed with him as much as we can be. We don't have the face to face knowledge of him yet. We relate to this verse/sentiment very much!
So "the perfect" has not come. Paul says that's when the gifts will cease.
My understanding is that these positions were first given totally by the gifting and power of the Holy spirit before the new testament was even compiled. Imagine having never even read the gospels or new testament and coming together and listening to it in parts, some from one gifted man and then listen to another part from another gifted man or women and you would have to trust that the Spirit really was speaking which is why miracles accompanied. Nowadays everyone carries around there own bibles that are considered complete and we trust them. Today to be a pastor that has never read the new testament even once would be a ridiculous and dangerous situation instead one has to study. I admit I could be wrong but I have never seen such gifting anywhere today.
So if Paul was talking about the Bible when he said gifts will cease "when the perfect comes" ..The logical implication of that is that you know Christ much better than Paul.
"For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known."
Paul said he saw in a mirror dimly - so, you know Christ better than Paul? Not just by a little - Paul's conveying it's a huge leap from looking at a dim mirror, to face to face knowledge. You'll "know Christ as you're fully known", wow. While Paul didn't.
I know I haven't hit this high bar.
We're all still looking in the mirror as we're clothed by Christ..The mirror is dim because we're not perfect and he is, even though we're clothed with him as much as we can be. We don't have the face to face knowledge of him yet. We relate to this verse/sentiment very much!
This was hard to watch. How does someone distinguish between some who "has a demon" and someone going through an outright psychiatric crisis? Why is it that the mention of tongues in Acts refer to an actual human language that was spoken during their time? Nothing mentioned about the strangeness you observe with today's pentacostal/charismatics.
My thoughts exactly, as a former charismatic I found that these prophetic gifts are driven by random thoughts that are super vague and applicable to half of the church.
Jim Osman has a great series on this topic on AGTV.
Maybe Gavin could have him on the show in the near future?
The bible tell us how to discern spirits
If it was an actual language why they sounded like they were drunk ?
@@internautaoriginal9951 where does it say that?
6 And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. 7 And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11 both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians-we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.”
@@alphawulff6354 And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”
Acts 2:12-13 ESV
If one doesn't believe in the supernatural don't open the Bible!! ❤️
I'm not a cessationist but it sounds like this guy just encountered a cold reader/mentalist.
I don't accept that the so-called spiritual gifts one finds in the Charismatic movement and Pentecostalism are genuine gifts of the Holy Spirit. I hold that they're counterfeit and in many cases demonic. Storms said for instance that Christians are able to cast out demons as the Apostles did by ordering them in Christ's name to depart, however I don't agree. I'm in agreement with Luther who said the following:
“Now and at our time, people should not drive out devils as it was done at the time of the Apostles and shortly thereafter, when it was necessary to do miracles and signs for the sake of the Gospel, to confirm it as a new doctrine, which now and at our time is not necessary, since the Gospel is not a new doctrine, but has been sufficiently confirmed. And if anyone wants to drive them out as was done at that time, he tempts God,” he said.
“One should also not drive out the devils with conjurations, by commanding, like some in the papacy and even some of our own people do, but one should drive them out with prayers and contempt. For the devil is a proud spirit, who cannot stand prayer and despising, but desires a ceremony. Therefore no one should make a ceremony with him, but should despise him as much as possible.”
Dr. Luther spoke further, “One should drive out the devil with and through prayer in such a way that one prescribes for the Lord Christ no rule, no means and manner, no time or place when and how he should drive out the devils, for that would be tempting God. But we persist in prayer so long, knock and rap [at the door] so long, until God hears our prayer, as He Himself says, Matth. 7[:7], ‘Ask and you will receive, seek and you will find, knock and it will be opened to you.’”
(Extract from: Bugenhagen, Luther, and Chemnitz on Demonic Possession and Exorcism pdf. This can be found online via a Google search)
The vinyard movement was not biblical. Prople he condones are not good
Listening to you for twenty minutes and being a Christian for sixty two years why is that you have quoted Paul incessantly and never Peter , or John or James, and more fundamentally never God manifest in Flesh , who said that the Holy Spirit would guide us all to Him
I am surprised Gavin, I thought you were more sound in the Word of than to give heed to this nonsense.
The only way to "examine" the NT is to read it in the Greek...at least learn what the terms meant in the day they were written.
Did Jesus speak in tongues? No. Why not? Because He knew men would self-indulge in it and be all the more easily deceived by Satan.
Only the most problematic church in Corinth fancied it.
In the NT, no gift is promised to be permanent. So if you speak in a spiritual tongue, know that an interpreter must always be present, and that it cannot be learned, imitated or uttered on demand. It is the least of all the gifts.
Finally, if you want to know if the utterences are genuine, the person uttering should also be able to heal, drink poison and be immune to venemous snake bites. So if you cannot heal an ill person, you are most likely fooling yourself.