The Problem with the Café Racer Craze
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2024
- Café Racers are very popular nowadays, but are they really suited for beginner riders? RyanF9 seems to have a few good points on the subject. Lets see what he has to say on his latest MotoVlog.
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It's almost 2023 and Ryan hasn't given us a moto-vlog like this in years.
It's time, Ryan. It's time.
I've been riding since the days of the original "café racers" and have built several of them myself. Now at 69 I've finally gotten tired of playing with 40 year old worn out carbs and electrical systems and primitive suspensions. My 78 Yamaha XS650 café bike is now parked under a tarp while I ride my new faster, smoother, better braking and handling, more comfortable and infinitely more reliable Honda CB500X. I still enjoy looking at a nice café bike, but so many of them are built for looks only. I see bikes with $1000 custom tanks and seats, but still running on the original ancient rear shocks that were about as effective as pogo sticks even when new. My biggest problem with café bikes though is that they were originally built in the 60s by young guys who worked in warehouses or on the docks and had no money and used parts scrounged up for a few bucks at salvage yards. Today these guys would be riding old Japanese sport bikes with all the plastic removed, while café racers are now built by rich old guys who are willing to pay big money for scarce vintage parts or over-priced aftermarket stuff. It's just not the same somehow.
Good share, man!
I agree, hard to find the larger cc old bikes any more, old bikes parked in garages were put on Craig's list & sold quickly, its fun to do but I don't miss wrenching on bikes.
you can meet few young guys doing exactly what you say, but yes their bikes will be from their era, so 90's kid will buy a 1990's bike, an old Ducati maybe, strip it down, put new light on and fiddle with other bits, tail etc, and will end up in street-fighter/naked bike, this is how its done now, its a progression as those bikes from 70's simply are rare and expensive, that's why only old rich fuckers can afford to do that but proper young racers are still about, spirit is still alive and we have to approach it with open mind to actually see it...
The parts don't necessarily have to be vintage. Replace the drum brakes with newer disk hubs. Forks are mostly interchangeable with bearing kits. New shocks, fuel injected carbs. Donor bikes are everywhere and parts can be cheap. Throw the original parts in a box someplace to keep the purists from freaking out.
It's the "café racer purists" that I don't understand. They think café racers have to be replicas of bikes built 50 years ago by guys who were about as far from "purists" as you could get.
One of my favorite philosophies as a carpenter is that the tool is only as good as the person using it. I feel the same about bikes.
"a poor craftsman blames his tools" is a good way to chirp buddy with excuses
@@AdamMalcolm96 Yeah, but good craftsmen usually have tens of thousands of dollars worth of specialized tools that make the job much easier. Whenever I get my dad to help me with something he usually ignores my shitty harbor freight tools and brings his own that work way better.
As an adventure bike rider, I have no greater respect than for the occasional Harley Rider thumping down a forestry road up in the Cascades.
Or put another way, a bike is only as good as the tool riding it :-D
As a motorcyclist and an amateur photographer, it is very true :)
Everyone should learn how to wrench on a bike.
Rebuilding a carb on a bike (especially a simple single cylinder bike) is one of the most satisfying things you can achieve....to take an old bike that wouldn't start or idle or run right and transform it into a smooth running machine again is really empowering in my opinion.
I’m on my sixth bike and have never taken a wrench to any of them. I find incredible satisfaction in riding still. It’s not to say I don’t enjoy the fruits of my labors in other ways but I can safely say that turning a wrench isn’t something that is meaningful to me. Like you said though, it is your opinion and you are entitled to hold it. 🤙🏼
@@freedomoftheride6885 I think everyone should learn how to should the need arise. it doesnt have to be meaningful to you.
@@enallane5538 I guess I just would never see when the need would arise. We all have different ways of taking care of our bikes, homes, and significant others. lol
This is a major theme of “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.”
@@tenders Quality comment. But what is quality?
+10000000000 points for not starting your video with some BANGING DUBSTEP and screaming and whooping. SUBBED
Callie1981 Those kids are always skateboarding on the sidewalks, and walking over lawns! Warble warble warble.
Hahahaha jk I agree.
His videos are class and informative. Probably the best channel for beginning riders.
'banging dubstep intensifies'
HEEEEEYYY GUUUYYYYSSS!
And the first word of literally each and every video should always be "so", as if the viewer has missed the prologue to some inevitable conclusion. Always.
Never underestimate the power of having your name on the title of your bike. Not making monthly payments liberates enough cash to transform a Craigslist reject into a show-stopper over the winter. Learning to maintain, repair, and eventually modify a machine that brings so much joy is therapeutic and satisfying. Excellent content here.
But not for beginners. Let them ride for a year or two(ish) before embarking on such projects. Yes, youtube/forums helps if you can't figure out something, but not everybody has the stamina/knowledge to restore/repair/maintain a(n older) bike.
I think an old project bike could be fine as a first bike IF it's a weekend hobby of passion.
I don't have a bike yet, but I do have a 1969 Austin Healey Sprite, and I swear that I've spent more time woking on it that driving it. That's ok, though, because the few hours I have driven it have been pure smiles. It's been over a year, and I'm still head over heels in love with her.
@@AlexFlodder i did start with an old bike that needed some repairs and a carb clean, i started from 0 as i didn't had any money to buy a brand new bike, had 0 knowledge about anything bike related yet i did enjoy taking apart every piece of the motorcycle and knowing where do i want to place everything to my own liking, repairing and fixing everything to my personal liking made me learn a lot and if i have any trouble in the future i will probably know how to fix it, it made riding it feel more safe as i know where everthing was and how it worked. If you aren't in need or urgency to use the bike it could be really satisfying as you can learn a lot more of maintaining the bike than just starting it and go
@@v.richard9993 Your story is much like mine, except I am still at the very beginning. I hope mine goes as well as yours has
Most people with the space, time and tools to build a cafe racer are going to be able to buy a decent bike with cash.
I was a founding member of what I believe was the first state high school sanctioned motorcycle club
down here in Australia... Circa 1969. I've been a motorcyclist going on half a century. I've owned bikes
ranging from Eastern European motocrossers, a very early UJM, Japanese enduro bikes, homolagtion
model superbikes; 1100cc, 750cc and a Thou et al. And I've ridden professionaly 9 hours a day, 5 days a week.
And I can tell you dear reader, that young Ryan Kluftinger is well worth listening to... Outstanding commentary.
Warm wishes to you Ryan.
Alan Squires.
I'm from Sothern California, back in 1999, I went Freeriding my Motocross bike in Australia with friends, what a rowdy country, had the time of my life never felt so welcomed anywhere else riding dirtbikes. Went back every year after that made so many good friends in Australia, definitely my kind of people if it wasn't for work I would move there in a heartbeat! Though many of my friends down under started riding pro and moved here to SoCal which makes it not so bad here anymore!
Half a century. You could just say over 50 years. Haha! Btw ride safe and god bless
@mrgeorge118
Hmmm, They are very different bikes; in terms of iced confectionery
it depends if your taste buds would prefer an Ultra Smoothy in double genuine vanilla bean... being the Honda,
amcn.com.au/editorial/second-hand-honda-cb400-2008-2015/
or a Chocolate Chip Gelato with nuts:
amcn.com.au/editorial/second-hand-honda-cb400-2008-2015/
I've ridden neither, but reckon either one is a good choice.
Having said that, seeing as your 6 foot tall and not skinny, I reckon the extra cubes of the lams
version of the Kawasaki Versys 650 would serve you well indeed... its spaciousness would
please you too. "Versys" is a portmanteau of "Versatile System" and that Kwaka certainly
lives up to its name.
amcn.com.au/editorial/secondhand-kawasaki-versys-650l-abs-2010-2014/
If you can, ride all 3 then decide.
Regards,
Alan.
@mrgeorge118 the cb400 is an outstanding bike. Not very intimidating but satisfying even after years of riding. I have owned two amongst about a dozen other bikes of all flavors and my 2011 cb400 and black with gold rims was probably my favourite. I will own another one day. Buy one!
Cheers from Arizona,
I too founded my high school's First (maybe) bike club. My posse and I rigged our bicycles with 80cc engine kits from ebay to mob around and have fun. It was awesome riding to school everyday on something that sounded like a lawn mower and had the reliability of ...None. Unfortunately we didn't have the time to fully grow and develop the club since covid cut our senior year but I'd go back in a heart beat to all those club meetings and trips with my buddies. Now i ride a DL650 which is a blast, but i'll never forget how I got into motorcycling.
Best regards,
-Hex
The absence of wind noise, the smooth video, the awesome scenery and an excellent narrative.... just kills it, Ryan!
Thanks for another great one.
this is possibly the best verbal motoessay on the cafe racer topic. ever. seriously.
Ichiban Moto totally agree
Goddamnitt Ichiban now I have to un-sub you. Joining the ranks of this self serving puketoremovearibtosuckhisowndick hall monitor. Whats next? how to sew your own reflective sash or just buy. Too many people that do nothing.Too many kids that DO NOTHING! The price of education is never cheap.There is no failure only progress. Immerse yourself and find out.
C'mon man Geeze
ps you are not and never will be SAFE!
5/5 Ichiban video review.
Would you go so far as to say it was "Bad Ass"?
;-)
Kid has a way of driving a point home. His "objectification study", about road rage made a lot of sense.
I think of all the bike trends that have introduced new riders to the sport, cafe racers are probably the best of them all. In my life I've seen the new rider trend go from full fairing speed war superbikes to custom choppers to cafe racers to thug style dynas and now dirtbike/supermoto.
I think anything that gets more butts into the saddle is a great thing and the cafe racer is the most approachable bike and probably the one that will be the least likely to get you killed or arrested.
Hmm that's a very valid point! I was pretty stoked when dirt bikes and sumos started to get popular again. Easy to learn a lot of riding skills on those bikes, and *hopefully* people take the opportunity to hooligan around off-road rather than on the street. ~RyanF9
Also, is it really necessary to be like 30 years old?.. I don't think so, just buy an actual motorcycle customized into a café racer and that's all
Well, according to the trend, yes. The old early-80s bikes are the one's that fit that style.
That said, eventually the nostalgia will work it's way up to a later period.
The Big Four and Euros also seem to realize there is value selling that old look and, more importantly, easy customization. So trend may be changing soon.
here in mexico (Never seen them in another country) there is a honda tool 125, and i think it looks pretty close to an old honda cb, and its pretty unexpensive, the downside is that it only comes with the 125cc engine
yeah this, I bought a Demak D7 and converted it into a cafe racer... problem solved
I started on a cafe bike with carbs I had to rebuild myself... made me fall in love with motorcycles IMO
Same here, complete teardown about 10 times before we got the jets right
I Agree as a kid i hated cafe racers, and small back tires but in my late 20's i fell in love with a 1973 Honda cb360 that i customized with spare HondaCB 350 parts or i customized an original part i already had. My first bike and by far my favorite bikes in my collection are my cafe racers There cheap, simple, reliable and easy to work on i dont think i would even have the love that i have now for motorcycles if it weren't for the café racers. As a beginner If you dont enjoy getting dirty working on your bike getting to know her inside and out mechanically how things operate then you dont need to be riding anyway
As a newbie I started on a cafe racer, absolutely loved it, then I understood it was totally illegal (at least in Italy) and sold it. Now I ride a 1992 Kawasaki Zephyr. Love your videos, keep it up!
I love the point(s) in every RyanF9 motovlog where he loses track of the topic for juuust a second and realizes how cool the ride is and takes a second to appreciate the moment and/or scenery (the first one in this video happens around 3:27). You can tell he genuinely loves riding motorcycles in every video.
Damn. That is some freaking crisp audio. I closed my eyes for a second, and it sounded like it was being recorded in a booth with some ambient noise.
"I guess they're doing it on purpose...pedalling around." LOL
Haha, the slight disdain and disappointment in his voice for the bikers choices in life is adorable
I mean we're getting swole af so diff strokes
"That's what a cafe racer is, it's the real coffee!" Love that.
Absolutely. Double shot with a bitter after taste..
Oh man, I'm giggling over here because I did all of these things you've outlined not to do. Took a motorcycle safety class and the day I finished I bought a Craigslist special cb360 that some poor soul had tried (poorly) to modify. Thankfully they gave up before doing anything irreversible, and it was cheap since it didn't run. I pushed it home, and I spent the next four months figuring out how to fix it up. Learned a lot about bikes through the process and it's kept me from being reckless (since parts fall off occasionally) and made me really appreciate the way they work. I'm a pretty casual rider still, it'll probably never be a long-haul rider, but it's fun to tinker with and learn on.
Right on. That is in my opinion a great way to get into motorcycles.
Not only are you learning to ride, but you already know your ride. How to maintain, repair and upgrading it, by yourself.
We need more hands on people in the sport.
Jordan Youngberg
Is that your real pic? You’re gorgeous!
Jordan Youngberg haha, I bought a '74 cb360 from Craigslist too. After spending years of it running poorly if at all I learned how to tune it and maintain it. Like you I benefitted from the process and rode cautiously fearing the front tire may fly off at 50mph. Now I ride twisties on it and enjoy it more than ever.
I’m currently in the process of building mine. I literally just did the same thing a few weeks ago, and I am looking into flipping my money on it by next summer
"For the bold" Ignited my love for custom bikes. So I Picked up a 78' XL 125 n after 2 year's of heart ache n almost giving up I now own a proper scrambler/brat style bike and I tell you I wouldn't trade the experience for anything painting, tuning carbs, finding parts, making new friends who knew what the actual fuck they where doing etc........
Being a closet mechanic, I bought a cafe racer and dealt with more than what you listed here! But with lots of time spent on the bike, and more with it taken apart, it just comes down to what you want! There were many times I wished I was riding instead of re jetting the carbs, or fixing the brakes... but all in all, I felt it taught me so much about my bike from the start!
that “Helloooo” and “I always feel bad when I pass cyclist bc I have an engine” HAHAHAHAHA
Pity huh?
I don't know about the past but I do love those neo-retro bikes. They look so much flavorful minus the problem it comes with for those old retro bikes.
I'm rising a standard Now though and seriously considering a cruiser but I know I'm going to miss those curves and lean actions if I do.
Ahhh... Dilemma.
Very interesting discussion Ryan, I'd not really thought of the effect the style crazed café club could have on new riders, completely get what you're saying though...I learnt the hard way that what you really need as a new rider, as you so eloquently said, is a reliable/cheap bike that you can ride a lot and learn your craft on in a relatively short period - then you can work out what you really like and don't like about the various motorcycle genres and take it from there...these things are dangerous, it just makes sense to start with something easy to ride and work up - and as you say the "modern retros" these days (thinking Triumph T100 or Street Twin) are cool and new rider friendly. Lovin' your work, keep it up - all the best from across the pond - TMF
Tmf what was your first bike? Mine, an 04 SV650 naked.
I wanna see a tmf/fortnine crossover
I really like a lot of stuff you said in this video. Good stuff! But far as safety goes, I've seen chopper/bobber riders riding shirtless with no helmet and sport bike riders doing 120mph+ in traffic on the road more than anything else. Safety comes down to the driver's choices more than anything else I think.
Perfect advice! My first bike was a 1949 bsa bantam d1. I would never tell anyone to start with a cafe racer, no matter what the size or age.
Modern Triumph or Royal Enfield etc at a push.
I love going back to a video like this, one that I watched almost 8 years ago because I was allured but the cafe racer craze. I love that I bided my time, waited until last year to get over that craze and land on my first bike, a naked bike, which was the bike I guess I wanted all along. But I especially love the nostalgia of these old vlog style videos that were so popular, that Ryan was trying to do to kickstart this channel before beginning his journey into the cinematic masterpieces that are today’s, and recent years’ FortNine videos.
*Get a Royal Enfield Continental GT!*
(No assembly required.)
Ugh. Still a garbage fashion accessory.
@@gnarshread maybe the 535, the 650 is parallel twin, smooth as butter,ABS,47bhp, 52Nm, 80% power ar 2500rpm..dont think its as bad as you make it sound and i do own it so 🤷♂
@@michaelruatfelaralte84 I rode one a little while ago and it rated pretty bad compared to a lot of bikes I've ridden. And I worked in he industry for a while. I've ridden a lot of bikes.
@@gnarshread well if thats what you feel too bad. True if you compare it with bikes which are 2 or 3 times the price of RE, yes they are miles ahead
@@michaelruatfelaralte84 I commuted on a first gen Kawasaki Versys for 3 years. It was dirt cheap, had 30k miles on it and had Similar performance figures. Hell. I even did a track day on it. It was super basic and cost me 2k. I never had a problem with it. I just doesn't make for a good fashion accessory.
I am worried that you are so worried!
Go up my boy
i told my parents that once, regretted the 1hr long talk of what there job is
I agree with you 💯% on a new rider jumping right in on a cafe bike and the costs and things you've mentioned. I still love the way the cafes look and the old school vibe talks to me. Thanks, I enjoyed the vid!
The best online / vlog documentary on today’s Café scene that I’ve heard. Well done! Ride safe my friend.
I always wave to the bicycle riders. Two wheels is two wheels. :-) Now, those weirdos on the unicycles... don't get me started! ;-)
@Brandon S your points are bad and cycling ist best for climate and health
I know a guy in the UK who cycled round the world on a unicycle.
@Brandon S Ah, so you're an overgeneralizing asshole? Noted! Next time I get off my motorcycle and hop on my road bike ill remember that; Oh wait, nevermind, you don't deserve another moment of thought.
@Brandon S - i agree. I remember coming up bicycles were for children. Men grew up and got the motorized type.
I used to be a moped guy and people would never do the wave because it's not a real bike lol
I bought one of those half finished bikes (79' Honda cb750) for $800, with a box of parts. I'm very experienced mechanically. And that year had duel front disks and single rear. No frame mods either. That said I am a beginner motorcyclist. And if I didn't have this bike I would not have any (because of price) . It's now running well and safe. I'm in it under 1k about 15 hours of work put in. I'm going to put at least 1000 miles on before doing any more mods. Thanks for the video as always.
Jared Jeanotte that is a nice bike you got there
You’ve done good, man !
I found the perfect compromise as a 66 year old new rider with a cafe racer fetish! My ‘86 Honda 450 Nighthawk was modified by a father-son team who found the right look, without sacrificing comfort and ride ability. They replaced the warn parts and spruced it up perfectly. It has plenty of power for a newbie like myself, and has amenities like electric start and a disk front brake. Also, new chain, sprockets, rear shocks, and tires. All for $3,000! Five years later, I couldn’t be happier with it! Now, I’m hunting for a classic scrambler to add to my quiver!
Thx for the advice, much appreciated! Your reviews are excellent.
I just recently bought a Suzuky sg500 to convert into a cafe racer, but been riding since I was 16 years old, I'm 25 now. And totally agree with all you just said. Great channel, thanks!
Hey Ryan, i totally understand your point of view on those cafe racer bikes. However, you missed one very important point why people actually want to have a cafe racer. It's the build experience itself that draws lots of people into that type of motorcycles.
Of course such a cafe racer project only makes sense if you have another bike you can ride IMO.
im planning for a cafe racer build cuz my country is poor and i myself am poor but im going for a brand new bike around 1000 in usd its just a small ass 100 cc 8 kw
I hardly ever ride mine, although have been riding for over 30 years..........enjoy the build process.......
@Brandon S I think that part of what he's getting at is that many of these young people getting into café racers don't really understand the work and skill sets required and give up out of frustration. In my case I started with early 70's ski doo's, learned how to rebuild them, how to troubleshoot, do body work etc. as a teenager, and I became a pipefitter/ fabricator as an adult, I also grew up doing finish carpentry. Simply put, I do know pretty fast how much work a project will be, most people from a non trades background have no idea. They're better off buying something cheap, reliable, safe, and comfortable, like an Suzuki sv650 (the standard one) or a cheap 650 dualsport. Then they will get to actually ride and enjoy themselves. Get a café racer as a second or third bike, wrenching on a project bike, making it your own can be a rewarding experience, but I'm willing to bet that many kids who get into it pick UJM's because they saw cool pictures on Instagram (or whatever it is they use nowadays, does that make me old?). Do not underestimate the naivety of a nineteen year old. I'm not attacking the people who get what it means to make something.
Because just how many of mc riders actually want to "work" (read "modding") on their bike though?
It's like assuming every person with a car is a "car guy".
Having the know how on how to fix common problems on MC's is one thing, wanting to build a MC from scratch is another.
Lastly, the video is not targetted at the niche group of people who not only ride, but build motorcycles but to the few people who just want to ride.
I started motorcycling on a '83 XS400K barn find that sat there for 20 years. It had 23k kilometers on the clock and cost me less than I sold my scooter for. It was drum brakes in the rear, and I wore jeans and a open faced retro helmet with aviator glasses, much like he described in the video.
The bike itself was a mess, in hindsight. Its exhausts were manually pierced and the engine ran too lean. It had front suspension with busted seals, a clogged carburetor and a rusted (and pierced) gas tank. It was painted by hand with a brush and looked disgusting. It was straight up dangerous to ride that.
But I fell in love with it anyway. I took vocation school for bodywork just so I could fix it. Did the paint, exhausts, treated the gas tank to be rust proof and clogged the hole in it. Cleaned the carburetor. Changed seals and swapped suspension parts. Probably cost me shy of 2k$ all in all. Restored it stock. I was already aware everyone turned those things into Cafe Racers and so I wanted to keep mine original.
Last week, after seven years of riding my XS400 way farther than it should have, I put it to rest with just over 60k kilometers on the clock. Certainly feels wierd to no longer ride my little bike that could and drive something thats so much better in so many things.
Its no longer on the road and still needs work to be completely rebuilt. But I really enjoyed working on this bike.
Just thought I'd share a story.
Your videos have come a long way since this episode, well done !
Scramblers all day
Of course, one of the bikesin the garage should be one. Everybody needs at least 3 bikes?
tim johnson god I would kill to have a cruiser, scrambler and naked sports bike sitting in the garage
Excellent observations, Ryan. I have seen a number of beginning riders who go off on these "builds" and end up with a piece of crap with clogged carburetor, no front brake, and an oil burning engine. Many have accidents and never ride again. And then there are the "clothes" and the obsession of the "look". I saw a number of them at my first and last DGR.
the DGR is all about looking the part, showing up in your full leather race suit on a modern bike would kinda be missing the point.
Looking the part is alright but having multiple bikes spewing blue smoke and/or running rich is another thing. My DGR ride experience left me so sick and dizzy that I decided to never participate in that event again.
lol thats just how old air cooled machines run
That's how old air cooled machines that are not in a proper state of tune, run. I have a 40 year old air cooled bike that does not burn oil or run rich.
Now I'm torn, because this touches on some sub conscience thoughts I've had while saving up for my first bike. I have fallen IN LOVE with cafe racers, both for style and history. But I'm having a hard time figuring out if what I want matches what I'm capable of. While this video gives me more questions than answers, I suppose that's a good thing as I go through this process.
Get a Japanese cruiser. Enjoy it. It's fast, reliable, great for travel, cheap to maintain and not expensive to buy. After that buy the Cafe Racer.
Everything you said sounds like my first bike, a carburettored Supermoto. Regardless of all the issues my next bike will be a cafe racer because I love all the steps that go into starting them and the style and everything!
8:25 That disappointment really hit you hard, went so quiet afterwards haha
...
... Oh there's a lake ...
I noticed a nice trail to the right around the same time
I agree with your assessment on café racers as a first bike, but I can't help but pine for mine. I got a '75 CB550 as a barn find which I cleaned up, wrenched on and rode for many years. I was in the middle of a teardown and restoration when I got deployed, had no space to store it and had to literally give it away. I'd kill to find that bike again.
Honestly things these days have so much tech that it actually makes things more difficult. Going back to something that is all mechanical is kinda nice.
Kind of like a 240z or old 911 (or muscle cars for others), it's great to step back to a more raw riding experience with experience
1:40 - 1:50 HOW DARE YOU (describe my bike so perfectly) SIR!
I wish I had seen this before takong the plunge. 100% true. My 1st bike is a cafe racer and it's spent 90% of its time in the shop. Huge money pit. Plus the nightmare that is locating qualitu used parts.
r/motorcycles is full of kids with ZERO experience and 1000 dollars who buy a 30 year old motorcycle with zero mechanical skills and a million questions lol
Don't forget Axe shower gel, and a mohawk hairstyle
Gaugeforever Guess you've never seen r/calamariraceteam then!
XeroFailGames We were all ignorant at one point, nothing wrong with that(unless you act like you know it all), we need to teach them.
You have to start somewhere, sure can't start at the top.
true we need to teach the kids how to buy a service manual lmao
Wow this video was greatly insightful! Answered a bunch of doubts/questions for me.
Nice to see those roads too! Reminds me of home, except my ride at the time was a subbie R-STI with a touch of lachute in the ecu department 😉
I started on an old cb750 in highschool and started cafe'ing it out over time. I really value the experience of having an old bike because working on it taught me a ton about bikes and made me appreciate it more. Now I ride a newer SV650 and am loving riding more than ever.
Vintage enthusiast two cents ...You're not wrong, but i kept thinking the term "Cafe" (which is vague) needs to be swapped with "Vintage" or "Over 20 or 30 years old" something more specific. If you're a 100% rider, mainly interested in the riding aspect of owning a motorcycle over all else, a vintage motorcycle may not work for you (literally).
What do you want most out of the bike? There are bikes out there for 100% riders (new ones usually), to 50/50 garage mechanics, to 100% shop rat fabricators. Many of us fall within or between these groups. If you don't LIKE (i mean, really love) working on engines/machines or are incapable for whatever reason, do NOT get a vintage/old bike or you WILL be like the guys F9 talks about here. Do your homework online before you buy, on forums and owner reviews, be smart and you'll find its fairly easy to narrow in on the bike the fits you.
I agree with your thesis however I think there is a flaw in your initial premise. Cafe racers are great first bikes since many are low powered nimble city bikes. You won't see a lot cruising back highways since that's not their purpose, they are city bikes, narrow for traffic, and fast between lights. The other issue I have is that many cafe guys know a lot more about maintenance and repair than others. All that electrical re-wiring, carb re-jetting, tire swapping, and air box to pods mods gives a level of connection that makes them long term riders. All that heart ache and customizing makes them hold on the bikes for a lifetime, while also weeding out the ones that wouldn't have stuck with it anyways. Again, I agree with most of your statements but if you're looking for cafe bikes head into the city, find the rock roll bar on bike night and enjoy the stories these guys share.
I ride a 1977 (2 stroke) Yamaha R400 to work almost every day. I also tour all over the province on it. It's been heavily modified. I love it and I've been riding it for almost 20 years. See you on the Hwy Yammi.
Great advice! I just got my license and I am looking to buy an old bike to customize into a café racer. But now I’m gonna ride it plenty and get to know it before I begin working on it. Thanks!
what do you use for you mic to get such good quality out of your vlog?
We use a Zoom H4n connected to a Sony Electret Condenser lav mic. I tape the mic itself to the inside of my chin bar. ~RyanF9
Hey Ryan! As a brand new rider into the cafe' racer aesthetic, I appreciate your critique here. Just got a 2015 Suzuki TU250X with the Cafe' racer kit on it. I deffinitely appreciate the modern features (fuel injection, ABS brakes, electric start, etc) paired with the vintage aesthetic and stripped-down look of a cafe'. Its been an amazing daily commuter for me, and I am not at all disappointed with my first bike! Very glad I didn't start out with a rigid old project bike and went with the "new vintage" style.
Your channel is so good. I've watched probably all of your vids in the past 2 days
nevermind, a lot, but not all. but i am going to watch them all probably here soon
Oh boy, must be nice riding on such quiet road in the morning. Where I live, it's traffic congestion everywhere.
An excellent video my friend and you make some extremely valid, irrefutable and well thought out balanced points relating to the modern Cafe racer cult, although I must say that in my own personal experience I've found that many modern bikers who begin with modern machines, find it extremely difficult, in some cases even impossible to adapt to a vintage machine, sometimes being put off them for life, which is a great shame, whereas those who begin with something old (and infinitely more troublesome of course), I find in general do adapt way easier to a more modern user friendly bike, even with the quantum increase in performance in every aspect!
There's also the hands on factor of starting vintage, one tends to learn much more about a bike, the riding of it and what makes it tick in general if you have to work on it yourself, yet with modern bikes (like modern cars), that is becoming increasingly more difficult, in some cases even impossible.
This comment is most certainly not meant as a criticism in any way to your brilliant video (about the best I've ever viewed).
I'm just a massive believer in empirical knowledge and always advocate that if approached correctly and sensibly, "In at the deep end" sometimes has its advantages, but that's just my own personal opinion and not necessarily correct, but it's just a thought.
You're right Ryan. I loved the style of cafe racers so much, I started to "coffee" anything with wheels on it. Well, I started, never finished. Now I'm at the point of having seven and a half motorcycles, all in parts or different states of "not running". I'll have to take a half year off at least, to finish some of them. And that by working eight hours a day. While my neighbour drives through the whole of Europe on his beamer or what ever new adventure bike he has at the moment. If i wouldn't have ridden some very reliable old Hondas before, I would never ride again. And once your house looks like a salvage yard and you had to rent the garage in your neighbours house and a third space in an unheated industrial building, just to leave your bikes somewhere, because they never run, in the moment, you want them to, it is like having a big stone chained to your ankles, which will drag you down, where ever you are. So don't be like that. There are many nice things, which look old but drive nicely. Kawasaki made the W-series, Triumph and Royal Enfield practically don't make anything else, the Italians still have some pretty nice driving half retros. They mostly even drive like an 80's motorcycle, which means, the handelbar leans into a corner, before the rest of the bike does, because the whole frame flexes so much. Then there is so much to choose from, for driving retro styling with a nice handling, as the Japanese show or the Germans. You could even buy yourself a new Ural or Chang Jiang and make your life dreary. Why bother with old machines? They will go wrong, because their old and driven on a shoestring for the last twenty to seventy years. Also, most of you have a butt, which is ok-seated on a motorbike. So do I, so does your girlfriend. Ah, well, you will not have a girlfriend anyway, because you're sitting in the garage every weekend, when all the people you know, will go out to have something called a "life". Anyway, you have a normal butt, so what's the idea of putting a ridiculously narrow saddle on the ride, which leaves you with enough pillow for the half of one cheek? Cafe racers are what they are: Racers. Ever driven to work in a race car daily? Was cool no? Highway driving with ear protection, meeting every bump in the road, no heater in winter, no A/C in summer, windows don't open, because you glued them shot and took the handles out for beeing to heavy. Ten minutes to strap into the racing harness... But hey, at least it looks cool, when driving through your village... Well no. Same with a bike. Can be cool, to drive to a cafe with that thing. But seriously, most of the drivers look like an ape on a tricycle. Then they put them infront of the cafe and fade to the background, while people look at the bike, which is normally way cooler and in a way better shape, than the driver.
Restored a 79 xs750 this past year. Really enjoying the build. I'm only $730 in the hole plus the $400 I paid for the bike. It runs and rides great. Although I do have a newer modern bike that's a million times better. But it's a trip to cruise with down to the local hangouts. It gets a lot of attention. It feels ancient but I love it because I brought it back from the dead all by myself. It doesn't have to be a money pit or unreliable, you just need to already possess a lot of skills and all the tools that go along with it. If you don't, be prepared for a big headache. But it can be very rewarding for the right person. But it's probably a bad a idea for most people honestly.
Im 53 years old. Ridding since 16 on road, 10 riding and racing off road. Started the Cafe thing a few years ago. 78 xs 650, 79 cb 750, 75 gl 1000, 79 cx 500, 86 gs 750. Loved the hours building them (mostly). Your right old carbs are a chore to clean up. Points are a challenge that never ends. Ride them all the time around town. When running at 100% nothing is more satisfying. Reinvigorated my riding pleasure completely. Love letting them rip. Open up a 1000cc sport bike and your in trouble right now. Open up a 40 some year old 500cc honda and beat the harley guy off the line your in heaven. Yup they are crap compared to my SuperHawk or Concourse on the highway or mountain road, but still I ride them all, all the time. Recall the fun you had on the 70's suzuki 90 two stroke a few videos back and you will get it too. Shit bikes are a blast. Agree with the protective gear being needed and the wrenching per mile is rough if your not into it, but 70's UJM's are it for me.
Triumph just redesigned their whole product line. They're getting rid of the old Bonnie's pretty cheap. For some reason, the Bonnie started out as a 650, mine is an 865, then 900, now 1200. Maybe there is a Bonnie Bagger in the works with twin tanks and a hot tub for next year!
See, the whole point of the bonnie for me, is a small, fun, light bike. It was perfect as a 650. Now I'm not against more power and better reliability, but sooner or later it becomes something that it was never meant to be.
Honda cb is one of the greatest motorcycles of all time and it's the most popular bike for cafe conversion. Easy to work on and super smooth for an old bike. I think they are a perfect place to start riding. Modern bikes don't give you the connection to the road they might give you a better ride but they do not make you a better or safer rider.
Ride based on your maturity level. I don't believe there is a cookie cutter answer for a first bikes.
Bike manufacturers spend thousands of R7D dollars on making bikes handle better ie: giving a better connection to the road. What do you mean by your comment of no connection to the road or not safer on a bike with traction control/abs etc? That is the whole point of the electronics to make the bikes safer.
Adam Green once again it makes a better ride but not the connection to the road and that's what I meant.
I agree somewhat. Not having a bike that can stop on a dime really teaches you to respect your speed.
AGREED! There is also nothing on the market today that can compete with the reliability of a Honda CB, either. My '71 cb500 has been forced to stop and help, and wait on soooo many new bikes it's just pathetic. The owner's never know what's wrong either, they just throw their hands up and say "won't run". Lol. Anything short of complete engine meltdown and I can ride home.
Great advice. Thank you.
I appreciate your fair insight. Recently bought my first bike - a 2015 TU250X - and totally agree. I feel I have the best of both worlds: vintage looks and disc brakes/ fuel injected engine ✅ . Enjoying the ride and looking forward to a long and varied motorcycling experience 🏍💨 🛣
This felt like a direct attack, lmao.
I have been planning to buy an old bike to get into riding for two years now.
Do it.
And did you already get one?
@@PumpKing96 Unfortunately, no. Too busy with work to build a bike/get a license. I did get a dirtbike two months ago, it's a 2001 Honda CR 125. Helluva ripper for an inexperienced lad like me.
Reading the title Ia first thought you are going after the "lifestyle" ;-) Actually I´m going to buy a Thruxton R soon, my second bike after a Street Triple.
My first road bike that I owned, after getting my M Class and spending a year riding my dad's 250 dual sport, was an 84' Honda CB700 Nighthawk S, a direct descendant of the legendary 750-Four that everyone loves using for cafe racers. I loved that bike. When not chopped, classic UJM's and their descendants make excellent, affordable, starter bikes.
1st bike - cb550 project still not completed
2nd bike - new free ninja 250 - long story
Sold ninja 250 to build 550, not completed
3rd bike - 2013 cb1100, finally a great bike
4th bike - what I wanted all along and blows me away everytime I look at it and ride it - neo sports cafe Honda CB1000r
I can ride both my CB1100 and 1000r all day, 10 years later Im about to start working on this cb550 project again, now that I have the shop to do it in, this guy is 100 percent right.
I ride mine every day almost...rain, shine, hot cold. In fact, I rode it to work today ..and yesterday too.
In my country cafe racers are not built from old bikes, they are genuinely new bikes imported the factories outside my country (dont know the origin tbh).
Is it good to start on a bike like i described above??
Any thing comes straight from factories are better than things made in someone's workshop.
I'm a beginner motorcyclist and I just bought a new T120 Bonneville Diamond. Having a lot of fun with it. Personally, I like the ABS, wet clutch and traction control. Makes it quite forgiving to ride as I learn.
At least here in Switzerland there are not many people who start by buying an ancient, customized motorcycle.
Alright im 18 and currently fixing an old failed attempt at a cafe racer on a yamaha xs400. 50% of the fun for me is the fixing part. Half the time i have no idea what im looking at, and its really satisfying and fun finding out and solving the problems i find
kills me when someone destroys a classic honda turning it into a cafe racer. Also pisses me off that the hipsters have driven up the price of classic 70s hondas.
Natural appreciation makes them that price.. Same as cars.. Are mk1 golf's hipster too?
You can get a 70s cb400 for $300. Relax boomer.
@J G is it possible to be neither, and just coincidentally have the same name?
@@Immad1337 the old cb750 sohc are bringing a fair price now to be honest. But so they should, lovely bike.
@@spaghettilegs9882 definitely due to it being a fantastic bike and very little to do with hipsters and cafe racers. Lol
3:53 - 4:04 weird silence saved by the lake ;)
huh. you explain exactly what i'm doing. and I love every minute of it.
Words of wisdom sir. When I was still a beginner I did make this mistake and bought a 1982 Honda CB650 that had already been converted into a cafe racer. Since I didn't know how to work on bikes myself the thing spent more time in the shop than my apartment parking lot. After putting a couple thousand dollars into it and still experiencing problems, I gave up on it and sold it. Took a 2 year hiatus from riding before I came back in strong with my 2006 SV650.
Quotable, “a cafe racer is like a double espresso”. 👌🏽
When are you going to review your own bike? I like it but Im not sure I wanna buy one.
We're in the editing stages of that review! Should be out shortly. ~RyanF9
FortNine Im curious because it doesnt have much to show except for a really cool looking bike with a V twin. Im speaking about electronics.
It has some! 3-stage traction control, ABS and a really informative dash. I do yearn for cruise control, however... ~RyanF9
Sadly if you buy one you need to insert your head up your own arse to fully fit in with the adventure bike crowd.
First panic stop with drum breaks... that was me. The 'stop' turned into a 'well, guess I'm making this light after all'.
4:36
I cycle a lot, you know what I think every time I get passed by a motorcycle?
"Dude, awesome bike!!!"
Feel free to pass at high speed.
The feeling of getting pulled by the wake of a superbike blasting past you is amazing.
A lot of the arguments are the same we'd actually use for people who want to start on a vintage bicycle. You should ride whatever you want to ride, so long as it makes you want to ride.
I remember watching this when this vid came out, and that was before I had my license or my bike. I can now say that I love that I chose a cafe racer build. Lol I even chose a “bad” bike for the build, the CM400t, but nonetheless it turned out great. I enjoyed it as my first bike and first build. I definitely agree with the comforts of a new bike, but I chose to ride bc I had no money and thought cafes were cool af. But now like any rider I want a bigger bike! Lol, great video!
I respectfully disagree on this one, I think a lot of the spirit of motorcycling especially in the UK has been lost through low maintenance imports and high performance Japanese bikes
(I know there are a LOT of positives here too)
I know some people to take their bike to the shop just to get a tyre changed. I built and modded my first bike, it was a lot of work but so worth it.
Though I understand I might just be a statistical outlier here and maybe you're completely right for most people.
Great vid either way!
You need a very expensive machine to change the tyre on a tubeless wheel. Well, there are ways to do it without but it's more trouble than it's worth and you are likely to scratch the wheel. I'd like to mention that I am not adverse to working on my bikes either. I've replaced the fly wheel and the chain on my fazer.
Well, you're wrong. No "spirit of motorcycling" has been lost. People ride more now due to those low maintenance imports. It's the opposite.
I'd rather ride than have to build and work on my bike. Still, if I'd like a cafe racer, that would be a 2nd bike. Absolutely no need to give up motorcycling pleasure for that thing.
I couldn't agree more. I talked a friend of mine out of getting an old cafe racer for exactly the reasons you mentioned. I directed her to a much more modern Triumph Bonneville and she's been super happy with it. I think that's a much better choice for anybody who's either getting started or doesn't know / isn't interested in being their own mechanic.
I’m a new rider. Bought a 1978 kz650. It is currently in pieces in my garage. Slow and steady work, but I can’t wait to be finished! It will look and feel amazing.
@FortNine , I gutted a 1987 BMW k100 to become a cafe racer. 124,000 miles and still going strong :P
Wow. Respect. ~RyanF9
Where did you find it?!?! Alls I can find is a k75.
Ryan, I really enjoy your vid's and look forward to new ones.
I personally have one of those '70's UJM's you reference: a '75 Honda CB550F. It's basically stock with some period correct upgrades like Lester alloy wheels and an oil cooler. It has pods too (it came that way), but is really well tuned for them thankfully. The '69-'78 Single overhead cam 4 Hondas (SOHC4's) are very very popular with the US cafe racer crowd and there are lots of really well done cafe's over at the SOHC4.net forum. There are also a lot of guys doing just what you talk about, taking a long neglected SOHC4 and converting it to a cafe a a first ever motorcycle.
Your basic advice to not start with a cafe project is spot on. However, some of the shortcomings you point out are based on your perspective as an ADV rider who takes his bikes on long trips and onto gravel and dirt roads. While I have one friend with a beautifully cafed '73 CB750 (thin seat, rear set pegs, clubman bars) who regularly takes long trips (I did a 6 day 1400 mile trip with him in 2011), but most people use their cafes for an afternoon of local riding that might cover 40-50 miles, but probably more like 20-25, and all of it on paved roads when no rain is forecast. So the thin seat, low bars, and minimal fenders are not likely going to be an issue.
The riser bar on your V-Strom are indeed comfortable... if you have a windshield or fairing, but over 45 mph that upright position sucks with no wind protection and the forward lean of clip-on or clubman bars makes a huge difference and also help with weight transfer and confidence in the turns the way risers and standing does for an ADV rider on dirt.
Most of your advice is well given and new riders should take heed, but I would say that you personally should find someone to let you test a well setup vintage bike based cafe (I might actually be able to help with that, the SOHC4 owners forum has a number of Canadian members) and spend a day with it in its natural environment, you might be surprised how comfortable that thin seat and bent over position can actually be.
Built my cafe bike at 65 years of age. Bought a huge ugly Moto Guzzi California stone for $3400.
Rode it home and made it a winter project .
To lessen the chance of a never ending project I kept the engine/electronics bone stock. I minimized the wiring harness, but didn't change any circuits.
I also kept the stock tank, which was huge, but strangely beautiful. I need to weigh the box of stuff I threw away. I'll get around to that someday .
Clip-ons , rear fender elimination, cut down front fender, fabricated tail piece (very nice storage there) ditched the side covers and mounted new flat ones directly to the frame(the look more like number plates) rear sets, ground off all the protuberances, relocated the rear brake master cylinder, replace turn signals front and rear, lost the plenum, cone air filters on the carbs(injection units)
Lost the stock exhaust except for the headers and crossover, repaint and a thousand small details.
My skill sets are huge and it still took five or six months to complete, with every tool in the world available.
It was something I wanted to do. I wanted the moto Guzzi drive package because it looks Soo clean .
Now I have an old man cafe bike. I get nice reactions everywhere I park it....
BTW, it has no center stand or kick stand.... So I lean it up against whatever I can find, which adds to the adventure.
It's fun to ride something you altered yourself . It's the only one.
And you get to live or die, so to speak, with your ideas.
I’m 16 and I’ve spent the last year building a scrambler from something that looked like a banana. I had zero experience and to start a motorcycle journey by sitting in a freezing cold garage in the middle of the Norwegian winter, cursing at a half-torn-down bike unwilling to cooperate, is not a motivating start. I was really close to quitting motorcycle riding before I had even ridden a mile. Please guys, start with something mass-produced and reliable. It will make your experience ten times better:)
My first bike was a little GPz550 that sure looked good in front of the coffee shop. I went across the country on it. Don't hate.
Had one new. Modern looks for it's time. Sounded even better.
I had a GPZ 550 , loved that bike. Kawi knocked it out of the park with that bike.
@@legalpitbull3623 Great bike. I had one in red.
What do you think of the Ducati Scrambler Full Throttle
Haven't ridden one yet. But I like the Scrambler series in general. Very accessible motorcycles that are also fun to ride for long-timers. ~RyanF9
I had a Ducati Scrambler. It was an unreliable POS. Of course mine was a 71 450 Jupiter, the bike the new Scramblers are styled to resemble. I bought it in 72 for $200, wish I could find one today for $200 LOL!
A friend of mine has a 2016, it is a POS. Within 1 year, fails to start, stopped and never started again on Champlain bridge, loose parts, expensive repairs, ... pass! Sounds great, cool look. Italians are artists, Germans are engineers.
New rider and I totally agree with l his points. I was literally just about to go into this direction. Thank you for the safe hesitation.
I love that I learned so much on my xj there in the pic. Yes it sat for a while but runs and rides. I loved riding so much when I decided to take on the carbs I didn't want to give up riding knowing I would fail before I succeeded so I got an fz8 I knew was reliable to keep me rolling on 2 while I built my cafe. Love your channel many bash cafe bikes I think you said it very well
I think that someone who brings a bike back from the dead will learn a lot more about what makes a bike safe than does someone who buys his bike from a store.
-drum brakes work just fine
-carbs should be cleaned now and then
-old bikes tend to be a bit cumbersome and there for teach a rider a lot of respect
Sure, if you don't want to do any work to a bike then buy a new one from a store. But if you haven't got a mechanical clue, then what the hell are you doing on a motorcycle.
Exactly !!!
I think the point, and he had a valid one, was that you want a bike that runs and is reliable so you can enjoy it, not a bike you have to spend a lot of time on because you converted a cheap barn find or basketcase into a Café because you heard it was the cool thing to do.
I would love to get into riding, and started my motoring career on a moped, a Garelli Monza GT that was a garage find. Carburetor and drum brakes. The bike was a 1985, bought it in 1997 and Garelli folded in 1986. I did a carb rebuild, and all the work because there was no local shop that would even look at it let alone touch it. Replacement parts came from lawnmowers, bicycles, cars, and even some BMW motorcycle parts because they fit. I knew everything about that bike, but it also ran when I got it. It helped that I didn't want to change it either.
Old bikes are great for a starter. Project bikes are not so great for a starter.
So get a Triumph Thruxton. Problem solved.
Jason Kenny Exactly, or you can go full retro like I did in 2013 with the purchase of my CB1100. I modified that instead.
Better yet, get a Street Cup. Cheaper and still a Cafe Racer.
Jason Kenny Nothing as special as building your own unique café racer the way you want it to look And knowing It is the only one out there, there are so many Triumph truxtons out there nothing special about that, tho I think It looks really beautiful
Jason Kenny p
I COULD'NT AGREE MORE!!!
being that i'm building a cafe racer right now, i couldn't agree more. Everything you have said is exactly on point
It's crazy how your production quality has skyrocketed. This is an interesting video, but it's similar to the ones that a lot of other people make. Your new videos are 10 minute masterpieces. Can't wait for the next one. Stay safe bud.
Do you think there's a place for an entry level Cafe Racer segment for automakers? Including 250cc or 500cc Cafe racers? The retro-designed bikes like the Triumph Thruxton and the Ducati Scrambler are great bikes with modern suspension and tech but may turns new riders away due to a high price tag and intimidating engine capacity.
Definitely! And the manufacturers are starting to pick up on that. The Ducati Scrambler Sixty2 and Triumph T100 take dead aim at new riders. And Royal Enfield has that Continental GT, if you can find one... ~RyanF9
Check out the Suzuki TU250X - put some clubmans on that thing and call it retro
The Yamaha SR400 screams "Mod me!"
247th. Have you seen the Mash 400? I'm not one for new/retro, but they look real nice, I've no idea if their any good but they are a looker.
I started motorcycle on a '79 suzuki gs550, she was pretty reliable and had plenty of power for me as a beginner, she was definitely way more comfortable than my cbr1000. I also learned how to change a tire and how to change a chain through wrenching on that thing. I love it and I still miss it. I think vintage bikes are fantastic first bikes.
rxamusic I got an 81 650 and that thing is my baby. Treated me well for 5 years, so I decided to treat her to some 65mm pistons and rebuild her, just waiting on parts. I have literally learned all about engines, electrical systems, changing tires myself thanks to this girl! The most reliable motorcycle I've owned, she deserves the best
I'm late to this party. As someone who works full time in the vintage bike world -- these are all valid points. Very valid. As much as the "image" and social trends help keep us in business, the frustrations and unexpected costs are very liable to turn off new riders. You're spot-on -- the long term appeal for the next generation may suffer a bit from this burst. As I am four years late to this video, I'm seeing trends of 2020 moving away from the slammed cafe or brat bikes, while younger folks are gravitating towards proper scramblers, dual sports, retro cruisers, etc. So perhaps the community is catching on to a more pragmatic approach to riding.
That being said, I do think that vintage bikes, especially small-displacement twins, are a great place to learn the fundamentals. Maybe not ideal for riding, but when it comes to maintenance, repair, and the inevitable drop there may be nothing better than an old bike. Your CB360 video is testament to that.
Take care Ryan!
Good video, I took most these variables in to account and decided to the a 91 K100RS really good condition low mileage and ABS because I'm not looking fight with my bike just to right it.