Muncie 4 Speed M20 M21 M22 Transmission Gaskets and Seals
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- čas přidán 9. 08. 2015
- Muncie 4 Speed gasket and seal differences and installation techniques discussed.
Get the Gaskets HERE: goo.gl/nTpY0H
My #1 BOOK ON MUNCIES IS: amzn.to/1LTGomh ||Catalog: www.m22power.com - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Paul your videos are the best at showing and explaining how to get the rebuilds done. Thank you for your help on my rebuild. Couldn't have done it without you.
Just found out my M20 decided to leak out all its gear oil over a 5 yr period in storage - this vid. is EXCELLENT! Thank you so much, seeing the diff. between the .015 and .030 gaskets was a life-saver, I'd feel sick to my stomach using the wrong tolerance and cracking the housing. Thank you again.
Paul, that gasket laid out nicely, very clean. I feel like pulling a transmission and changing in your gasket set!
Sending my “cheap” e-bay gasket set back - just ordered the REDLINE kit. Thanks for the great VID and tips.
Thanks for the short video! I'm new to the scene. Just bought 69 canaro z28 with 400 sbc and m20 muncie 4spd.
Thank you, I just ordered a set of your gaskets
Paul, you are the Best, great job, Sir
Picked up a tube of 51813 today for regasketing my Overdrive NP833. It may be a little expensive but its cheaper than a leak, or running one dry.
12:36 the overall appearance with the sand cast finish looks beautiful I'd almost want to leave the tunnel cover off the floor board so everyone could see the transmission, A really nice looking unit.
Hi You the class of the field. I just did a generic search for muncie gaskets and u have 3 hits on the first page. If your seo was this good a year ago, I would have bought everything from you.I am glad to see you have fixed that.
And in didn't cost me anything.
+GearBoxVideo hmm not sure I understand u- did it not cost u anything to fix your generic seo? A year ago you were no where on a generic seo search now u on first page w & with out paid adds. Again- I COULD NOT FIND U a year ago. If I had found you I would have bought everything from you. I am sure the rebuild kit I bought was not as good as yours. lol now u r stuck with me.- like gear rhonda- only worse lol
Glad you found me.
Excellent Paul.
Paul, I think your a great gearbox guy! Thanks for the video....maybe it was a rare case but, front bearing retainer bolts on OEM Muncies have 1/2" heads instead of the 9/16" regularly found on 3/8 bolts.....I had aMuncie years ago give me a fight on going into the bellhousing until I noticed the hex head was actually protruding further out than the diameter of the bearing retainer collar....Now when I don't have OEM bolts I use Allen head or 12 point bolts for my bearing retainers....looked to me like you were using 9/16" hex bolts on your build....maybe I just ran into a rare case where tolerances had built up the wrong way but those heads did protrude past that collar register when the pointed side was facing out. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Eric Brandt actually early units used a 1/2 head. Newer units all used a 9/16 head. So that information is not 100% correct. The reason they hang up on the bell is because people use lock washers and the lock washers wont work with the larger head. Its the washer that is the problem. That is why they use the later lock plates.
Excellent Video
Great vid. My doughnash 4 +3 is leaking from the lower shaft plug... will be buying ur gasket kit
I stock new magnetic fill plugs as well. Always use teflon tape on the threads
Shared on FB, keep making badass videos!
Appreciate that. Thank you.
Hi Paul, all of your videos are excellent! I recently purchased your book , steel mid plate ( 1in shaft) and am looking at beginning the rebuild on my 74 M21. My cases are in very good shape. What would you recommend to make the M21 unit more bullet proof^ Its going behind a high perf street 327.
What about the bushing for the tailshaft? What driving or installing tool is the one to use to install the bushing? Thanks!
Awesome video. Very informative. Is it possible to replace the rear housing gasket in the vehicle if the shifter and driveshaft are removed first?
No, because the reverse fork and idler shaft will come out with the tail and you would need the length of the tail to clear the Mainshaft. Not worth it for 4 more bolts.
Paul another great video !!!! When your rebuilding a customers Trans,do you or have you ever seen a need to machine the retainer/ mid plate or tailshaft housing surface or just replace the whole case?
Charles Price Usually the main case of the Muncie is where all the important numbers are. So the main case, if need be will get rebushed, centers corrected, and thrust surfaces repaired. This is of course if the customer needs his original case. The new cases, mid plates and tails are much better.
Paul, the edge on the speedo housing is like that so do have to remove the entire bolt when replacing the speedo gear. Simply loosen the bolt, let the tab rotate down and remove the housing. Re-install is much quicker now with no loss of parts.....
ACE of HEARTS whether the cut edge is there or not makes no difference because that end of the hold down isn't near anything for it to bind against to prevent rotation.
I would like to buy one of your 4 speed transmission
Hey Paul, just finished my M20 rebuild and have her back in my Camaro. I followed your book and videos to the T. I had fun doing it. I drilled and tapped a drain plug in my case (very very carefully) using a 23/32" bit and 1/2" NPT tap like your book suggests. What do you recommend using on the threads for a sealant? I have a very small slow leak coming from there now. Waiting until I hit my 200 mile mark to change the fluid and ill take care of it then. Any recommendations? Thanks man, DJ
dmesz311 Just use Teflon tape on the pipe threads. Some sealants can cause the plugs to seize up in the case. Thanks for the support.
Thanks for admitting you use a Craftsman torque wrench Paul. I won't feel so bad for using mine now!!! Rob
Well it did finally break.
Great video , what mineral gear oil do you recommend in a M22 box from a Hx One Tonner ? And can you use the same oil in the diff ?
Watch the video I did on GL4 oils
Paul, great looking "fel pro" style print-o-seal gaskets you're now offering. I'm still old school with most of my paper gaskets. It's a thin bead of yellow weatherstirp glue on one side and brushed on brown shellack on the other. Bullet proof seal and if you take your time, clean look. Damn shade tree's and their use of orange permatex. It should never be used on the trany but at least use the gray stuff. I shouldn't encourage. I'll have to give the red stuff, you use, a try. Are you offering your new print-o gaskets for top loaders and others or is the demand not there?
AJKandK Its expensive to tool the gaskets, I might do others if the program progresses. I think anyone who has worked on cars years ago has used yellow weatherstrip glue and Indian Head Shellac! The new gaskets save time and money. The importance of two different retainer gaskets is often overlooked. The Permatex 51813 is currently used in most production transmissions. ANY silicone can take weeks to cure. So if you are doing service and need to fill a unit with oil within a few hours any silicone sealant is not a good choice. GM used to sell GMS-Black which was not a Silicone based sealant which was used on production engines. Regardless of the SIlicone color, Black, SIlver, Orange, Clear , 24 hours should be allowed before adding oil. I get new T5 units that I pull apart for parts and the sealant still isn't cured, and I do get people occasionally complaining about leaks with those.
Hi Paul and thanks for the great videos. I don't see any tips on how to remove the sleeve that's behind the tailshaft seal. Any tips on what to use? Assuming you still use a press?
+Todd Gover If you are talking about the rear extension housing bushing, I actually use an inside muffler cutter pipe chisel.
Thank you
When I do gaskets, I use bare fingers too. I get the best feel of the amount I am applying. I agree, beads are excessive. A smear of sealant is fine when we are talking about mating surfaces within a few thousandths of an inch. Believe me, that thin smear will do more help than a harmful bead would have ever done.
+gsantander100 I agree.
welp.
You sold me on the gaskets pretty easy. When I need em, I'll be buying them from you.
Actually, if you sell any other parts for the muncie, I would buy them from you as well. The stuff you've spoken about regarding the quality of the ebay stuff has scared me straight.
Thank you. My site is www.5speeds.com/cart
Hi Paul, thanks for the great videos and I hope you are doing well. I want to buy your recommended double-lip seal with dust seal for my 3846429 extension housing. Which brand and/or part number is that good one for a 27 spline? (Timken, SKF, National, etc.) Hoping to get from Napa, Rock Auto, Summit, Jegs, etc. Thanks!
We sell them on our website. See: www.5speeds.com/cart/index.php?route=product/product&path=66_74&product_id=110
Waited to see any tips on the rear tail shaft seal. Mine still leaking after replacing twice.
Did you replace the bushing? Often times a worn bushing or even a bad pilot bushing up front will not allow the yoke to stay concentric with the seal. I assume your yoke is in oerfect shape
@@GearBoxVideo Thanks for the advice. I’ll look into your suggestions. The engine is now out of the car making things easier to check.
I am looking at an old sm465 that needs a lot of love. She's done around 500k miles in a 1990 Chevy and I'd like to see her do that many more, and since it's behind a 454 I think it's possible. But I have been watching yours and a few other people's videos and now I am getting paranoid about the parts I'm going to drop in there. I am not opposed to spending money now in return for future miles. Whose rebuild kit would you suggest? Thanks for your time.
I honestly don't know the quality of the Muncie 465 aftermarket truck parts.
Hi Paul, hope you are doing alright. I am a bit confused on thrust washers; are there two for the counter-shaft and two for the reverse Idler gear? Would like to use the copper washers with dimples for counter-shaft and two thrust washers with tang for reverse gear? What site do you recommend I get them from? Thank you!
Julio Rosario For the Muncie 1" countershaft we have the bronze dimpled washers. Also for the forward reverse idler. The 7/8 countershaft only has the stock type washers.
Mannnn... where were these awesome gaskets 30 years ago?? Very sweet👌🏻
You're old school.. haha... I have a hard time working with gloves too. I like to feel what I'm working with.
You didn't counterbore the tail housing to lower bolt on this unit Paul... may I ask why?
Certain applications didn't need the counterbore. However since I started doing it the manufacturer of the tail housing now has added it to part of the machine process.
One of my front retainer bolts are stripped?? can I (1) use a 1 1/4 inch bolt to grab more threads?
or (2) use a JB weld thread repair?? thanks
Use a threaded insert such as a Helicoil. Most auto parts stores now carry small thread repair kits thread size is 3/8-16
@@GearBoxVideo I will have to drill that out and retap it though correct? When using a heilicoil. Everything else is rebuilt and complete. No jb weld though?
Tap a little at a time and with the side cover off use grease in the hole your tapping and trap the files with a rag
Any suggestions on how to remove my drain plug. Can't seem to break it loose. Thanks in advance.
Heat the surrounding area of the plug with a propane torch. Not the plug. Then shock it with a hammer. Do this a few times and usually it will break free.
Just a general question Paul. From watching your vids and talking to you awhile back, it would seem like there are still quite a few people using Muncie's. Where are they being used most- street, strip? Why do they remain popular when they do not have an overdrive gear? A muscle car or rod on the street, you'd think they'd want the overdrive so they can run a numerically higher ring and pinion and still have a decent cruise speed. What is the trend these days in manual transmissions? Good videos!
falfas55bgas Good questions. The Muncie is so popular because it was and still is the largest mass produced ( by volume ) manual transmission ever issued in a production vehicle. Spanning 1963 to 1974 hundreds of thousands of these transmissions were sold. Overdrive transmissions rob horsepower. So if you are interested in a performance only muscle car, or road race car, a 4speed with proper rear axle gearing will rob less horsepower than a 5 speed. Nascar doesn't run overdrives for a reason. Between new Muncies as well as Super T10 4 speeds, they sell way more than 5 or 6 speeds do. For cruising you can now get Muncies with a 2.98 1st gear and couple that with a 3.08 axle still have a 4 speed and get decent performance combined with fuel economy. Of course these are direct replacements and no cutting or interior mods are needed.
Don't get me wrong, I love 5 and 6 speeds. Restomods using new 5 or 6 speed transmissions are awesome rides. As far as trends go , there really isn't any defined. I can tell you I am selling more 4 speeds this year than any other year.
hey Paul just wondering whether it is normal for my air vent to leak a but of oil?
Yes make sure the transmission is not overfilled and you may want to extend the vent higher.
You seem to be way more knowledgeable than I am at this. I do have a question though. Why don't you put the sealant on the gasket first and then place the gasket down. Seems it would be much cleaner. Not a big difference in time. Always wonder if it matters or just preferance.
Depends on how you handle the gaskets. No preference, but paper gaskets are not stiff. So since you have to have the gasket supported to apply sealant on both sides BEFORE you install, then pick it up and install it on another surface what's the point?
great channel Paul . ETCG brought me to your channel just as he done with scanner danner . I use loctite 515 at work a lot on orings and large castings on trane chillers. I have plenty of caulking sized tubes of it. if your interested I can send you some
Thanks for the offer. I appreciate it. I don't use that size tube or type. I also stopped supporting companies that sell products direct undercutting distribution and sales people that educate end users about their products.
+GearBoxVideo hi mate I have a m21 gearbox in my ht holden it seems to be not going into 3rd every other gears OK could it be that I need to run fresh gear oil or the linkages out of wack
+paul roberts is it a grind or a block out condition?
Mate I'm not the best around the machanic side of things don't know what grind or block is
+paul roberts When you shift it may grind going onto gear. Sometimes you get a block out condition where its doesn't grind it jist doesn't want to go in gear.
hey paul im going to order some of your gaskets, few questions though, my m21 out of a 70 vette was leaking oil from the front of the transmission somewhere (bearing retainer or countershaft seal not sure) and that's why its out to try and solve that issue. is there a special seal or plug for the counter shaft seal? also I need a kit with the three shifter control seals and one of your premium rear tail shaft seals. I fell victim of the ebay special and im not impressed with the seals I received. I really don't wanna pull this sucker back out! so, what kit do you recommend, and in your experience why would my trans be leaking? it shifts like a dream and inside looks great fluid came out pretty clear and no rubbish on the magnet? any help would be appreciated my local trans shop didn't hesitate to shoot a quoate to rebuild the whole shebang...
Matt Dugan The countershaft bore gets elongated. The case usually has to be bushed with a new shaft
Thanks for your help I took it to a guy up in LA and he said what you said the case is wallowed out just a bit. He had a machine Shop bore it and a new bushing installed. he also went through the syncros and bearings too. You channel is bad ass! You sure know your stuff! 😎
Question - Is there a speedometer gear that will allow me to use my 1965 M20 with 4.11 gears? If not what will I have to do? Thanks!
Will buying a 6 tooth drive gear to replace my 8 tooth one work... will that work with my plastic 20 tooth driven gear? I read that the 6 tooth ones originally came with a 20 tooth steel driven gear.
Or maybe a 7 tooth with a 22 tooth...
Depends on your tire size. What is it? see this page... www.5speeds.com/calculators/SpeedoCalc.html
couldn't find the printoseal gaskets(you had here), or the double lip seal-where do I look please?
We make them. They will be back soon. www.5speeds.com/cart
Soon I hope. The biggest issue I had on a Muncie rebuild was leaks so these should eliminate that problem
thanks
I have an M20 in my 1978 Oldsmobile Starfire. I have it pulled and want to go through it, replace the synchronizers and the rear seal at a minimum. Your gasket and seal kits only go up to '74. Do you plan on offering a gasket and seal kit for a 1978? Thanks.
M20 is an RPO code for a wide ratio transmission. Thus both the Super T10 and Muncie used that RPO code. You need to get casting numbers
@@GearBoxVideo I'm assuming that would be the numbers on the main case right below the letters "GM". They are 3925656.
The tailshaft casting number is 352254. The side cover casting number is 6261886.
Where is the best place to buy parts for a Muncie?
From me! Www.5speeds.com
Where can I get these gaskets Muncie transmission
My links are in the video, about section of the channel, video description. Available on Ebay or my store. Www.5speeds.com/cart
What in your opinion in the power limit of an m20/21 and m22?
bolawdean i always say the transmissions were designed for their intended use and nothing more. Its hard to compare power ratings when different axle ratios and clutches will load the same transmission differently. Also most Muncie transmissions are over 50 years old. To base purchasing a used transmission on some rating is pointless.
i know what you mean, I guess I was talking best case scenario like a fresh built muncie with good quality parts such as Italian gears...just curious
If you have a good case, and billet steel or alloy midplate it depends on axle ratio. Typically the M22 gears will be stronger than m21 m20 gears. Usually new m21 / m20 gears are in the 450HP range while the M22 stuff is between 500 to 750 HP
thanks that's exactly what i was curious about, wasnt sure the power difference between the m20/21 and m22 since you hear so many differing opinions, I def value yours since you seem to know them inside and out
Nice thank u
Thank you too
Can I find those gasket kits
My website www.5speeds.com/cart
Just an FYI on that "crappy sears craftsman" torque wrench, mine is 30+ years old now, and I have it re-certified every few years, and it's always right on the money. The guys certifying it always comment on how good those torque wrenches are, and often offer to buy it from me! The key for long, accurate life is to back it off to the lowest torque setting when you're not using it.
The adjustment ring bring on both of mine. Glad you had good luck with yours.
The lock collar? Mine broke years ago too. The guys doing the re-cert put a new one on for a few dollars, and I've been more careful with it since. Thanks for the awesome videos BTW, I really learned a lot. Wish I found your videos before I ordered your book from Amazon - I would have ordered it direct from you with the promo code.
The older units had chrome plated steel collars. The older wrench with the chrome collar had the internals break. The last two came with plastic collars (that broke ) which I can never understand why they went cheap there. Problem is there is no lifetime warranty. I don't use their wrenches anymore and use a digital one from Mac, same as the one made by Gearwrench. I can work faster. Because with the readout if you want to torque down gradually and then the final set point for some apps. So when I use beaded gaskets I can quickly go to 12 - to 20 - to 30. without having to reset. Keep in mind the wrench is used daily.
Why aren't these on your site.??
THEY ARE!! www.5speeds.com/cart
I never find this material boring .
I feel like swapping one of these into my 97 S10 next time the peice of crap NVG 3500 goes bad.
bad ass