355 stroker - Crank FAILs - Tear down and inspect
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- čas přidán 1. 08. 2024
- Learn from my mistake. Start from scratch, get your engine built so you know whats been done. Re-search and buy every part from reputable suppliers.
I bought this 355 stroker motor from a guy on gumtree who bought this new and never got it in a car or ever started.
It had all receipts of work done, cam specs, on the crate and looked the part so i bought it for $7000 complete. After all the $1000s spent building the rest of the car, wiring harness etc, i got it running, ran it in successfully and drove it gently up and down my street a couple times. It blew a lot of black smoke, fowled x5 sets of spark plugs and eventually started to knock.
This is the full experience and hopefully helps anyone else in there plans for a future build or if your having similar dramas. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I would not Be happy, I got a 408 Clevo Scat gear had trouble with the Block not being cleaned properly dropped oil pressure within 1000km pulled the sump was just starting to pickup the Bearings the engine builder did not want to know about it Happy to take a lot of money at the time. pulled it out took it to Reagan’s at Caloundra this is 15 years ago cost Me 3000 dollars more there Engine Man of the Day Ron old School went through it showed Me where the other Bloke had gone wrong I learnt do the research back then the 4340 crank,H beam rods, SRP forged pistons and Machining of the block was 5 grand so by the time I was finished 14500 dollars like I say that was 15 years ago still a dirty taste in My gob cheers Mick.
Bit late to this party, but hey ! That really sucks big time - one thing that no-one else said that might be worth checking is that the rods were attached to the pistons the right way - if the radius sides of rods face each other on the journal then the straight cut sides are then gonna edge ride the crank journal fillet radius and lock the journal from freely rotating - leading to a lot of friction that could have been enough to torque the throws too much at that lightening drilling below it. Just a 2cents comment...good luck with the new c.o.m.e kit 🙏 ps me first car was a VC Commy - good to see them still going strong with Holden V8s not LS's 💪
Never too late mate, if I’d had more info like what’s come from everyone’s comments I would have been smarter and saved a lot of money. Great comment and knowledge to pass on for anybody who needs it 👍 thanks mate!
Being a seasoned mechanic, I never trust anybody else's work.
I’m hearing ya mate, it’s a hard thing finding honest reasonable people in this line of work unfortunately. Learning the hard way for me ends up being hard earned knowledge. I’d hate for anyone else having this happen to them so this is first hand possible outcome.
@@echanneltv9938 it's terrible but it's like if I tell and show my customers exactly what is going on, they are never willing to pay for the truth.
I closed my business of 17 years. I'm tired of being honest and good. No one is willing to pay for it.
Dog dog eat world. People suck.
Cheers mate much appreciated all the best to you and the vb
Thanks mate, much appreciated.
As a person that has ground a lot of cranks back in my younger day until i decided working on engines was a mugs game that paid peanuts unless you owned the company i can say that all the engines i have seen that have broken cranks early in their life (no they weren't mine) have not been ground correctly the operator has not dressed his grinding wheel properly and when he has ground the radius on the journal it has left a sharp corner instead of a smooth radius transitioning from the bearing surface to the thrust side of the journal. Also there did not appear to be much thickness around the area where it broke and that great hole bored in it certainly would not help.
Great to knowledge to pass on thanks mate, definitely worth paying for professionals with good reputations. Saves you money in the long run.
Eagle, nuff said.
You are so lucky you shut it down when you did, minimising damage. New crank, rings, bearings and a good clean should see it rolling again. That crane 280 sounded awesome. I'd love to know how that 280 goes after it's all back together again.
I’m hearing ya mate, yer I wasn’t game enough to start it haha definitely could have been a lot worse.
Ah the old screaming eagle
Not the first time I've seen one break. Spend the extra and get a good one.
Thats a sht go bro . Holden used harrop in there factory 355. Im planning on sticking with holdens setup for mine besides flat tops
Thats the go bro, better off spending a bit extra and know you have proven quality.
Scatt makes steel cranks now, I I have a cast on my 355 but I built it before the steel was available in saying that it’s been fine.
I have a cast crank in the new motor with only 2 bolt mains and been advised by my tuner and several people not to push it past 450 hp at the wheels. Come racing rated the bottom end to 600bhp and 7000rpm. If big hp and rpm and continuous thrashing is what anyone’s aim is the steel crank and 4bolt is the go. I’d like to build another one one day with all the goods and turbocharge it.
jeez the thing sounded insane beforehand
Eagle always has a part number and their symbols engraved into their cranks. No symbol or part number usually means it's a pro comp crank.
Yer it had a part number and a faded eagle on it. I should have mentioned the part number in the vid. Checked the number out and was definitely a cast eagle crank.
C.o.m.e racing crank or scatt, both good, Eagle cranks break all the time
Most probably the real early eagle crank, you got lucky it didn’t take the front of the motor, did sound good though the first part of the video
I think it was an early one, It did sound nice with the solid cam, shame but like you said I could could have had it come out the block. I learnt a fair bit from that, so I ended up getting a good reliable combination professionally built.
External balanced for a manual and ya flex plated it....either way it sucks..good man
Good vid
That sucks bro, on the plus side a good stroker in a VB should be a rocket ship!
Yer bro, I’m one those fellas that has to learn the hard ways all the time haha but now she got a new well built stroker in it and yer brother it a hell quick ride that’s worth all the struggles. Cheers bro
Mate I’d be puttin those black gloves on and making someone pay with that broken crank
There seemed to be a lot of carbon on the pistons for a “new” motor. Hope you got it sorted
They definitely didn’t look like new pistons with a few scuff marks on the top but i did have a lot of black smoke blowing out the exhaust when running in too as well as oil smelling like fuel. I think some of it was slapped together with spares. All new build now and running great. Thanks mate
Also I would always recommend a 4 bolt main conversion , can't go wrong with a Harrop hardware. I did a similar conversion years ago !
4 bolt conversions the way to go definitely, if I didn’t have to do it twice I would have spent the extra to install in the new motor.
I've seen broken cranks before and in the same areas as this one has broke. upon close inspection i found marks on the counterweights that looked rough like concrete impressions. I figured they have been dropped and no one said anything about it. If in doubt about anything have it magnafluxed and checked before install. Just my 2 cents.
Interesting information there mate, I recon things like that that each person shares helps a lot to the community when building a motor, thanks for the comment.
wow that's a break ! Can you please tell me does your engine have rope rear & front main seals or is there something else can be used? Have a VN engine to freshen up and heard about leaks... cheers.
Hi mate, that motor and crank had a neoprene rear main seal. It was in good condition with no leaks but my new motor/crank is machined to use the rope rear main seal. Most people will recommend the rope rear seal but is a prick to install. Best off getting an engine builder to do it as they have the right size dolly to knock it in without damage. But “come racing” have a good video on CZcams on how to install if you keen to give it a go 👍🏽
Eagle cast cranks break because they are terribly balanced.
I have used Eagle forged cranks making over 1000hp and never had an issue.
I always use scat cast cranks.
I figured should be safe with a forged crank from any of the main company’s and have read good things about eagle cranks in other motors also. Good to hear that from first hand experience, thanks for that mate. And very respectful power figures there! I guess it comes down to knowing the best way to do it, spend a bit extra and do it once with forged parts and you can do whatever you want power wise with peace of mind. Wish I knew all this at the start. Cheers mate.
Go a steel crank for any stoker
I would never buy an Eagle or Pro Comp crank,Come,Harrop and scat seem to be good cast cranks
Don't be discouraged Brother, that's what being a GearHead is. Just regroup and get back at it.
Thanks brother, Na spent too much to get that far, had to see it out, but yer I did sound pretty mean aye. Cheers for the comment aye
If you dont mind me asking what kind of intake manifold are you running i would like to get rid of my banana manifold on my vp 304 and get an edelbrock or something similar but still want to keep efi. cheers
No worries mate, it’s a torque power manifold (high rise single plane). The guy who makes them has spent years testing and proven results for the old Holden motor.
Some blokes go the high rise dual plain because it’s been tested to be a little better suited for streets (more torque) but the single plain gets more top end. If you haven’t up’d the compression and fuel system, would be better suited to a low rise type from COME racing etc. COME make a great high rise manifold in a similar style to the VL walkingshaw manifold too, looks wicked and it stays under the bonnet. if you keen to build up the engine, spend it once and go plenty of air/volume from a well known manufacturer.
Did the crank say sunoco on the counter weight ?
Na mate not that I seen. It had a faded eagle emblem and part number on the front counter that matched the eagle cast crank in there catalog. Was faded so I couldnt see it in the video. I was just purely unlucky.
Was it a later model block with the clearance already in it for conrod and crank throw clearance or an early block that you have to grind clearance into?
The early blocks need clearancing, from memory I’m sure the later 304 vr or vs and onward blocks came out with the clearances to use stroker rotating assembly. Vt blocks had the roller cam as well so some folk say there the choice of em all.
@@echanneltv9938 yeh true. Just did clearance on a VL block. Metal everywhere from die grinding. Later models better. Hope you sorted it. 👍
Thanks mate, all the best with your build 👍
i think your onto it said was vn means not original stroker cast that was vr on hsv block but used in heaps other models
What brand did you end up going with.
I got a full balanced c.o.m.e racing kit 3200 delivered. Worked really well and my engine machinist were happy to use them. Highly recommend there kits and browns engineering at lawnton (if anyone in Brisbane area needing good honest engineers)
Gee, I am about to reco my old 308, I think I will keep it standard.
never had a problem with the eagle forged cranks, have used them for Chevy and Ford at a HP level ranging from 550-1250, zero failures both in NA/ forced induction and nitrous.
over the years I've come to embrace the overbalanced technique, what percentage over depends on RPM, rod and stroke ratio and rotating mass.
sounded proper until it didn't, no worries, you'll have it back together stronger than before. beautiful ride BTW!👍
cheers from California.
Thanks for your comment Rick 👍
Definitely could have been other underlying issues but the main being should have invested in a forged crank in the end. Cheers mate!
Just go with a scat crank eagle have been known for being bad in the past.
I would be very interested in: what brand of crank it is, who built it, was it balanced, was it blueprinted, why did it fail as Eagle cranks are supposed to be good, is it a Forged Crank, was the motor second hand or used before being rebuilt????? Lots of questioned that need answers. They are a great motor when built properly unlike this one off Gumtree.
I read once that 10 approx years back there were a few bad castings but not sure if this was from that batch or not (yes cast crank). Regardless, my engine builders checked the main caps and found they were never line honed ( no machine marks so standard diameter). And after a closer check the push rods were bent, so I believe this was a slap together build. I have heard good things about eagle also. I have since got it rebuilt with a come racing bottom end and it’s an incredible car to drive. Cheers for the comment mate.
@@echanneltv9938 eagle stopped making the holden cranks many years ago because of this problem, this crank will be an old unit lucky to have survived till now
Cheers for confirming that circle jerk, I had a feeling I’d be that unlucky guy to have probably the last one ready to go bang. Serves me right not building one from scratch but I probably done some bad stuff to get that karma come back at me haha. Had to start from scratch and feel much better about it. Cheers
I just purchased a eagle rotating assembly from jegs an I must say this is very discouraging
I wouldn’t let it discourage ya mate. If you’ve bought a full rotating assembly as a package you would think it should be fine.
This video is only meant to show what may happen if you buy a pre built motor from a non reputable source. I should have bought a good bottom end kit and had it machined and built by a engine builder so I knew exactly what was in it and so it would have been reliable. May not be the case in your build
C.OM.E crank. The younger guy (the son) that works there is a complete ASSet but they have great products.
Like the way you layed out the parts 👍I might have to borrow that idea.
Edit: maybe a mains girdle until you do the 4 bolt conversion?
Thanks mate, it definitely made it easy to organise and wrap up. I think I know the guy your talking about iv heard some great things about him. I only dealt with Sam the owner but he gave some excellent tips for clearance specs combinations of injectors right down to coolants n oils. I couldn’t be more happier with the help and kit I got through them, highly recommended. Girdles a good idea for the time being but I’ll get to that 4 bolt mains one day. Cheers mate
These cranks don't come balanced usually. Always pays to have everything balanced by a reputable machinist. If your in Melbourne Mick from M & S ENGINE reconditioning is the man you want to talk to.
That engine has done a lot more work than 1 km some thing is not right there , engine was running way to ritch .good chance of hydraulic lock
Well I can tell you it hadn’t done more then a 1 km because it was in my car and it definitely had issues with with ignition and fuel, as I mentioned in the video it I thought it could have had detonation issues (firing to early creating a hammer effect through motor). It had 42lb injectors so definitely more fuel then it needed but It blew black smoke not long after start up went through 5sets of spark plugs to get it run in, and found later when getting it rebuilt it needing new stem seals and new exhaust valves) The motor was very clean and in Unstarted condition when I bought it. Seriously, i ran it in so it would be ready to get a tune, half hour of running in drive way, then drove it up and down my street the next day and it stated to knock. My engine builder for the next build said it was a slapped together engine ( tunnel wasn’t line honed exhaust valves were no good etc) you can slap a old 308 together and most times it will be fine but adding cubes is an art.
Why a cast iron crank!
That’s what came in it unfortunately. If I knew better at the time I would’ve built a motor from scratch steel crank with a 4bolt conversion. Will probably go down that path one day come time for a rebuild.
you do realise the come scat and auscrank offerings are all cast cranks unless you opt for the forged steel items
Yer mate I do, if I didn’t blow 7k on the first motor that broke, I would have spent the extra 2 grand for the steel crank from come on this new motor along with 4 bolt mains conversion as mentioned above. Maybe on the next rebuild I’ll go all out.
They are cast steel not cast iron LOL
@@borismcfinnigan3430 I meant steel crank…lol!
By the way thats not how to measure rod side clearance.
scat cranks are by far stronger and more reliable. I've built more strokers than I can remember and always use or at least recommend scat cranks..
bad luck
Yep, not wrong
looks like bad casting
Always better off getting motor built and run in tuned just save hassle for $3500 to 4000 not worth it
run in and tune on an engine dyno is more like 1300 to 1500
I was just saying cost if buying on ebay build it tune it no worth hassle as you can see