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Why is TTL Flash so Inconsistent? | Ask David Bergman
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- čas přidán 7. 08. 2024
- Today's question is from Brian O. -- “What are the best setting parameters for TTL? I primarily meter flash manually because my results with TTL are so inconsistent. Love your tips and tricks! Thanks!”
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Why is TTL Flash so Inconsistent? | Ask David Bergman
00:00 Intro
00:58 What is TTL?
02:52 Using a mannequin to practice photo lighting
03:54 TTL shoot 1 - Direct light
07:20 How to overcome TTL exposure inconsistency
09:27 TTL shoot 2 - Side light
10:25 When to use TTL or manual flash
12:43 Closing
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I believe there was something fairly important that wasn't addressed in this video. The reason your flash changes power when you zoom out is because the camera is seeing more of the background which is dark. So, the meter, if you're in multi-zone metering is going to tell the camera to tell the flash to power up to light up the dark background because to the camera, the scene just became darker. If you switched to spot or center weighted metering your TTL results would be more consistent as the camera is just looking at lighting up the face and not the entire scene. THIS is why your results are inconsistent. And to David's point, switching to manual will definitely guarantee more consistent results regardless of which in camera metering method you use. I think this explanation is a huge "miss". It didn't address the "why" of the question. If you know the why, you can figure out how to address the issue. If you don't know the why you're just trying to compensate with FEC it will still be inconsistent next time you reframe the subject. Knowing the why gives you more power to make a better adjustment, in this case the metering method, to get more consistent results. Having said that, manual will always give you consistent results.
It was literally one of the first things he said when he zoomed out.
I love how you do your explanations. They're crispy clear.
Great advice! Perfect explanation of the only time (run and gun with varying distances) TTL is a better choice than manual.
The short answer on "inconsistency" is the same as any other automated exposure-- with each and every shot it starts all over again to determine the exposure and any small change in the frame can alter it.
Great as always. I sometimes use spot metering in camera and lock that exposure in if I'm shooting off center.
Brilliant explanation of when and why to use ttl or manual flash. Thank you
Thanks for the video. I am starting to use ttl and you really did a great job of explaining.
I love watching these videos from David....he must do a ton of research, because it seems like he knows EVERYTHING about cameras, lighting and all that stuff... I mean, he must know a lot already because he's got the segment...but still! WOW. Every time. Blows my mind.
Great video and very helpful!
Great Demo, Thanks David
Lumina the Light Queen. Another great episode, thank you David.
Lumina! I like that. Seems less creepy than usual a more common woman's name.
Very clear Relatable in real explanation - thank you
Killing it with the thumbnails
great, thanks. Was having similar issues, understand now what went wrong
A good explanation of TTL and how best to check to zoom in the range for the image. I have two name you can try David. One is Electra and the other is Aura
Excellent names!
The way you described TTL, I wish it worked like that. There'd be no need for a preflash to happen. Is there an actual technology that meters flash exposure and stops the flash once enough light has been registered? It must happen real fast in a single flash and no preflash.😅
Great vid.
Great info!
Thanks a lot .
Great info as always, thank you. What about silent Susie being as she doesn't talk back.
I must learn how to adjust Flash Exposure Compensation. Got it. Thabk you for this. I did not know it even existed. Gratzi.
I think Peggy is a good name! Thanks for all the great content
Another good lesson David,,, trouble is there aint enough Mondays in the week
So kind of you to say, thanks!
Thanks. I wonder if this can solved by spot metering on the face and keeping exposure lock for the TTL to calculate from.
At time stamp 7:35
I'm so glad you pointed out, that you should make the compensation physically on the flash, not in the camera exposure nor the flash compensation inside the camera! Many photographers make that mistake resulting in inconsistency.
Why is that an issue? I'm curious. I get not using the overall Exposure Compensation, but not Flash Exposure Compensation feels like the correct setting.
The one thing I did find on this had to do with the Profoto Air Remote which says to use camera FEC and not on the trigger - but I that looks like an implementation detail for the trigger.
What matters is that you use FLASH exposure compensation and not regular exposure compensation. You can do the FEC either on the flash itself, the trigger on the camera, or in the camera settings if it allows FEC that way. Of course, in this case, I could have technically used regular exposure compensation since my one flash is the only thing lighting up this image. If I had more than one flash, or any ambient light, then FEC is the only way to go so it only adjusts the light from that flash and not everything else.
This was really interesting and I understand a little more how TTL works now. So does it factor in the metering of the camera (Matrix, Centre Weighed, Spot)? Could a viable workaround to consistent TTL use come from locking exposure more such as using Spot metering for the persons face, locking exposure, reframing the shot then fire? Hmm... might have to try that.
You've answered your own question. Changing metering method to spot or center weighted will give you more consistent results for the area you want to light, ie face. Manual will give consistent results regardless of your metering method but if you don't want to switch to manual, more accurate metering will give more consistent results. The matrix metering will take into account the entire scene and tell the flash to use appropriate power for the scene, not necessarily the face. Oh yeah, you definitely want to sync your spot/ center weighted meter to whatever focus point you're using.
Thanks a lot
Good explanation and demonstration David! So, in a hurry, let TTL help you for optimal if not perfect result...
Exactly! For my video a few weeks ago about eliminating shine on people's faces -- I had the model in the studio for a very short amount of time (for COVID safety) and flash exposure wasn't super critical (shooting raw and could adjust slightly after the fact). So TTL all the way. But when I'm making a real portrait where I've got models and makeup artists and lots of lights, I'm going to go full manual every time.
She looks like a Shauna. Anyway, This is the second video of yours I've consumed in the last hour or so. Very insightful videos. And very well put together information. Well done.
There is tcm on the godox x pro triggers. Once you get it right convert ttl to manual. The ad600 might be too powerful tho indoors which may have to go back to ttl to go below manual settings.
With a nikon flash, when the camera’s metering mode is changed to spot metering, I can use Standard i-TTL mode, in which, flash output level is adjusted to the correct exposure of the main subject regardless of background brightness
As long as you have the "spot" right on your subject for every frame. Easier said than done.
@@DavidBergmanPhoto the spot is her face. I thought you knew that 🤔
How would you work with a flash in an event setting when you are moving around, and lighting changes from room to room?
Use T.T.L. mode.
Have you tried using spot metering on the face then TTL on flash?
Hi, David. Why does my SB700 so often asking me to switch away from TTL mode when I don’t want to, sometimes in the middle of a shot?
Does camera metering mode have anything to do with it ? For example if I switch from matrix to spot ?
TCM is nice 😀
To me the ideal situation would be to expose a broad-lighting tight headshot with TTL in which the flash meter would get a perfect exposure of let’s say 1/8th power. Now at that point if you could switch to manual that 1/8th power your lighting on the subject would be good from now on irregardless of whether you with the camera was moving around. I have one huge problem though! For my camera-flash setup the TTL power setting is top secret and evidently I don’t have a security clearance. It would be great if switching to manual would have the prior TTL power setting displayed.
The Godox AD200 PRO and the AD400 PRO ( and probably others) do exactly that. You take a shot in TTL mode. Switch to manual mode and it is now set at the TTL exposure.
Davina
Thank you for this video...
I have a question if that's ok... Does camera metering mode effects the TTL ? Thank you!
Thanks!!! Great explanation and I suppose if you had a white background the opposite would happen with TTL. By the way, don't name your mannequin head Sheila. I understand there is a mannequin residing in a NY studio by that name. :)
True re: light background for sure.
Thanks for the info, helps a beginner using OCF. ps: we named our Mannequin ( Helga ) that might suit yours? LOL.
I want it to take the picture with the exposure settings set as if I didn't have a flash but then fire the flash to fill in the dark areas, but all my pictures come out very, very dark.
When I switch from ETTL to manual mode, the flash won't even fire.
Did you keep the iso as auto ? It is better to keep in auto ISO so that even if thr flash did not fire you will get a decent picture without flash. If you have applied the right shutter speed and aperture, there is no reason for you to get a dark picture.
Nice video; thanks for posting.
1) Would changing the metering change the light? That is, won't spot metering (as Christophe Robert suggests below) work better? What about zone metering?
2) If you lock it into manual mode and use the same flash setting all of the time, won't that change the light? It seems that light reflected would also be subject to the inverse square law so that if you doubled the distance from the model, the light would be less bright.
3) Name suggestion for mannequin. Since she is so plain, I would call her Jane. You could also use the song, "That's not my name" by the Ting Tings as her theme song.
4) Comment: I have a very cheap flash. I can take the exact same picture twice and get totally different lighting for each with TTL (sad face). I'll will definitely try the manual mode now.
1) With Canon cameras, spot metering does not effect TTL. Evaluative and center-weighted do, so yes, those setting would help. But if you use center weighted, for example, you'd have to keep your subject in the center of your frame. That's quite limiting. So much either to just switch to manual and then you can zoom in or out, recompose, etc and the flash exposure will be exactly the same every time.
2) If you use manual for your flash exposure, the amount of light it puts out will be the same every time. Of course if you change the flash distance to your subject or background, then yes - the light will appear differently. That's why I said I use TTL in "run and gun" situations where the distances are constantly changing. For a portrait where everything is roughly in the same spot, manual all the way.
3) Will add it to the suggestion box. :)
4) Good idea. Third party companies have to do some serious work to reverse engineer the camera technology. Some do it better than others but none will be as good as usual the OEM gear.
Also: why using ttl? (Apart from very specific moments)
Dang, was hoping to see how the TTL adjusted with face detection turned on.
💯🐝
Name suggestion: Luz Bergman :)
Dolly?
Name: Maya :)
Call her spooky head
With my Nikon crop and full frame, nikons flash no problem using the, but with sony with Godox flash ttl really inconsistent output, talking on top camera.
I think in most cases that the same camera brand camera and flash will be more consistent because they speak the same language. Third parties make some good flashes, but they still have to reverse engineer the technology without have the SDK.
Does the TTL Flash exposure have anything to do with the focal length of the lens? It seems that the TTL is doing its job by adjusting to the focal length, but since it is at a fixed focal distance from the subject, it's throwing out more light, the further the camera moves. Any way to compensate for that other than manually fixing the output of the flash. If the flash moved with the camera, wouldn't the exposure be more or less correct and the same?
Use flash exposure compensation when in TTL if you find the flash is putting out too much or too little light. You can do this directly via the flashes menu or via the camera body ( maybe assign a function button ).🙂
It shouldn't have any relationship to focus length directly. But as I show in the video, when you shoot wider (either by zooming or by moving further away), the camera is seeing a lot more area around the subject it is lighting so - in some cases - it will try to brighten the flash exposure. Again - the tech is getting better, but it's still going to be inconsistent.
@@DavidBergmanPhoto Thanks for the reply. It seems like this could be confirmed by moving the flash to keep it the same distance from the subject as the camera. If exposure is consistent, then TTL may be using the focal distance to adjust flash output. It that's the case, there should be some rule to apply to compensate based on focal length, assuming the flash is stationary.
Use OEM equipment instead of 3d party alternatives. Godox and other don’t have Canon protocols, they have to reverse engineer and they will never match Canon original speed lights.
Good thing I bought a Canon speedlight for my Canon camera, and a Neewer speedlight made for my Sony. Both are dedicated flash units.
Betty looks like a good name for your well behaved model!
Call it Lamarr.
her name is Eveline =)
Dotty the Doll
Stiphanie
Would camera spot metering on the face and flash set to TTL keep the same exposure on the subject's face?
Great question. It's my understanding that Spot Metering would not make any difference regarding ETTL as per Canon. I am interested to hear what David Bergman say.
With Canon cameras, spot metering does not effect TTL. Evaluative and center-weighted does, so yes, those setting would help. But if you used center weighted, for example, you'd have to keep your lit subject in the center of your frame. That's quite limiting. So much either to just switch to manual and then you can zoom in or out, recompose, etc and the flash exposure will be exactly the same every time.
@@DavidBergmanPhoto That makes sense . Tahnks a lot for your answer!
How about now, with a Sony A7IV, will spot metering affect TTL ?
David
How about Headdie for a name
She makes me think of Elsa from frozen😂well, cause she's frozen❄⛄😂a frozen frame the whole entire time. I'm looking to buy me an Elsa too☺ also thanks for that discount code! I've been wanting to buy that software for like for eVeR!!!! I wish I could set my notifications to notify me for every 'ask David Bergmann' only. I'm Afrikaans and still not exactly fluent in English and find the way you explain things make the most sense to my simple English brain 😁🙄keep it up, I'm a headshot photographer here in Namibia now and almost everything I know I've learned from watching these Adorama videos! Thanks!
Happy to hear you're enjoying the videos!
Luckily shooting raw can easy adjust and recover these kinds of inconsistencies in exposure. But no mention metering modes in the camera, it seems you're on like an evaluative mode (average of the whole scene), what if you go to spot and put the spot on the same spot every time
The Canon R5/6 and probably others uses evaluative metering for the flash regardless of what’s metering mode you’re using.
I coincidentally that exact same head, she was named "Bernice" by a friend, and she's very patient when it comes to me testing new lighting. 😂
Call her poly as it’s made from polystyrene
A name for the "subject"? 🤔 Since its her head only we are seeing ... What about "head-her" (Heather) 😉
🤣
Great video thanks.👍'Where can I buy the head for practising at home.
Thanks. Just search Amazon for mannequin head.
"mani mc-manikin head"
Does TTL shortened the Speedlite life?
Where is the mannequin link? ☺
That's Jane Doe
Heidi the head
what if I change the lightmeter from matrix to point measuring and have my camera read the skin of a subject all the time. whould I get at least a correct exposure of the face?
From where I can get this mannequin?
Search Amazon for mannequin head.
Yip. When using multiple lights TTL is a pain in the ass and will only slow you down. I only use TTL in, as you say, run and gun situations. Rarely any other time.
Inconsistent: many flashes don't producc consistent results with TTL if nothing changes (same angle of view, camera on a tripod...).
This happens with third party flashes sometimes because the companies have to reverse engineer the TTL technology. It shouldn't happen if using a flash from the same company as the camera. But still better to go manual when you want critical control!
Lizzie Borden. Just saying.
Bwahaha
Her name should be Amanda the Manikin
Call your mannequin Demi. (Dummy... geddit? )
Does the TTL measure the whole sensor every time or does the metering mode plays a role here?
At timestamp 6:09
"...light hitting HER face..."
Shouldn't that be "...hitting IT'S face..."??
Mandy the mannequin
Model: Illuminati 😅