What a fantastic series! I wish that *every* Mormon would be brave enough to watch this. The shame & suppression that happens, not just with sex but certainly that is a major one, is so devastating, and the 'authority' makes you feel that it's because of your own inadequacy & unloveableness from god instead of their insidious rules. Leaving the church was the best thing I could have ever done & I'm grateful every day that I did.
Ex Jehovah's witness here... this is ridiculously close to home... been there done that, the guilt, the fear, the shame, etc etc... the watching your back while in the corner shop buying porn mags..
My ex and I did indeed get divorced as we left the Mormon church, mostly because when it was all said and done, there was nothing real holding us together. Our lives were Hell together but we were afraid to admit it due to church teachings. We were afraid to face the facts because of what we were taught that it would mean. I'm now happily remarried and I am a far happier person than I was in my previous marriage which I had rushed into due to cultural expectations within the Mormon church.
Personally, pornography is not a problem unless if it's 1. Child porn or anything involving a child 2. Rape or violence (however, that is a gray zone for me because the actors/actresses had to consent to do the shooting of the porn and other reasons) 3. Anything involving an animal 4. Or unless the porn is actually an addiction when it interferes with your everyday life. Other than that porn is not a big deal in moderation. Nothing to be ashamed of.
I just stumbled upon your video and I love it. I wish that there were more women in the U.S. like you. I wish more women who are emotionally secure could tackle these conversations in order to help those who can't understand male sexuality. Instead they (wives who have husbands that view) go to Al-anon for information on what to do. So sad, as this can only cause suffering on both sides of the marriage. If you'd like to have a good laugh I decided to converse with all of the nay sayers below.
@KerriBodie you're wrong about the idea of people objectifying nude art and those who pose nude for artists! I KNOW ALL about nude art. I studied art history, I've drawn nudes. I've talked to the models as human beings! They enjoy serving artists to help them excel in painting, drawing, constructing, animating the human body accurately! Nude art is necessary and very helpful! Anyone who is not an artist will not understand that concept. They will only see nude art with childish immature eyes.
@KerriBodie I must have misunderstood the point you made to that person. Sounded like you still struggled with the mormon mindset when it came to nude art. All the mormon "girls" I dated, only one of them tried to cover up my artistic eyes while in a nude art gallery. We had major debates about that incident for the next few days. Her parents sheltered her, plus she listened to church leaders suppressing messages way too much. Religion destroys the celebration of the beauty of the human body.
I left the church about 16 years ago. You've both been able to put in words many things that I have felt been never been able to aptly describe...especially the notion of deconstructing. I completely deconstructed, and a lot of people never understood that, always saying things about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It has been a long process for me to finally reach what I feel is MY belief system and I couldn't have gotten here without deconstructing.
@malwambi Any commandment not to feel a certain way or think a certain thing is frightening. Your feelings come from deep within you; you do not choose what to feel. Sexual desire, AKA "lust," is instinctive and totally unavoidable. If you believe that your god will judge you for the primal instincts he built you with, then you need to carefully evaluate how sane that belief is.
@AWinterDemise I talked with friends the other day about lessons we received as teenagers in the Mormon church. Almost nothing on sexuality itself, but always a massive emphasis on repressing sexual urges, to the point where a normal, healthy desire for sex was made to seem like a dark, evil aspect of our nature. It is not uncommon for people to have trouble enjoying, initiating or communicating about sex in marriage because they spent so long thinking of it as something to resist & avoid.
Thanks..I did try suicide and felt the deep shame for mastubating every 3 months or so. Then I found drinking eased the shame and so about every 3 months I drank. I am 61 now and have just 6 months or so leared the church is not true. Thanks for teaching those like myself that it's normal and you don't need to beat yourself up over this stuff. If I could give you both a big hug I would.
It is a far cry between normal adolescent sexual exploration and masturbation, and adult masturbation, to pornography. NOT the same thing. Sexual relationships should be enjoyed within the confines of marriage and not include anyone else including images of anyone else. Whatever you want to do between you - go for it. The marriage bed is undefiled. But pornography has an evil spirit behind it...It is addictive, and has the potential to tear apart even a great marriage.
Jesus said that if a man looks at a woman to lust after her he has committed adultery in his heart. It's virtually impossible to masturbate or view porn without lusting after a specific person depicted therein. It seems impossible to fulfill this teaching of Jesus in one's life while also masturbating or viewing porn.
Jesus Christ was an asexual man...I don't say this to be derogatory just to spell out the fact that one can't have a good marriage without lust (dopamine and adrenaline) it's what got you married in the first place.
Do mormon bishops listen to all these lurid confessions and not get turned on? Pornography can be harmful depending on the circumstance, but shame, blame and regret is way worse.
"Fire, to destroy what you've done. Fire, to end what you've become". Let us step into the sun and cleanse our minds. What is left is what's real. When you have overcome. The bed is clean. It is no longer pornography. A futurist described the passions as erotica. It's okay to be human.
When she says pornography is beautiful, she is not talking about just "porn". The missionaries had taught me that even music videos could be considered porn or some paintings and sculptures could be considered porn just because it was the naked human body. She wasn't necessarily talking about people having sex together, she was meaning artwork and stuff other than that.
@AWinterDemise There's one object lesson where the teacher starts the lesson chewing a piece of gum & then offers it to someone. As they recoil, she then makes her point - that a girl (& girls are taught about virtue far more often than the boys) who has just done more than kiss before marriage is like a chewed piece of gum no man would want. How do you think that makes those girls feel? Instead of helping youth make rational, informed decisions, there is always guilt and threat of rejection.
That chewed up gum demonstration needs to stop. Honestly, I don't think many LDS guys care about virginity before marriage...especially if she's really cute.
2:46 did she just say that porn is beautiful? While I can understand the point of not making this into such a big deal that it destroys your marriage, if my significant other had an addiction to porn, that would be a problem for me. Yes, I would never want them to lose their attraction for me. But with porn he is getting aroused by these women. Observing a beautiful woman walk past is much different than watching that same woman have sex and getting off to watching her.
Yes, they are different scenarios. Are you being for real here? They are both about fantasy, however one is virtual while the other is tangible. You would prefer your husband to have a tangible fantasy over a virtual fantasy? Think on these two different scenarios for a moment. Let me know what you come up with.
@KerriBodie It's not just about the plotting. Lusting after someone goes beyond mere appreciation of their body, even if the person looking has zero intention of doing anything about it. I feel the same about porn. Whether you agree with watching it or not, to deny it's objectifying is crazy. OF COURSE people are objectified in porn - very deliberately so. Real movies have much more powerful sex scenes, but don't allow the emotional distancing that porn does & sometimes that's what people want.
I might add, I don't fault anyone for leaving Mormonism - I totally do not agree with it, and think they have it all wrong. There are other sexually repressive issues within Mormonism than just the thing about pornography....the wearing of the garments, for example. A good friend of mine left when the 'church' decided that it was time for her and her husband to have another baby. That's not what God intended the church to intervene on, I don't think!!
@cindybin2001 Are you even watching these videos? You're not making any kind of specific comment on what they're saying or addressing any of the issues that they've brought up in their discussions. You're just posting the same "I can't believe someone would say this" on every video. What is it about this video that you disagree with...specifically? What is it you think they don't understand?
And you're argument of "but he does the dishes and folds laundry and loves our children." is the same argument as getting beaten and then saying, "my husband hits me, but he does the dishes and does laundry and loves our kids and pays the bills." It's an excuse and it doesn't fix the problem - it's disrespectful towards you and you have every right to be angry
Wow, stirring the pot! This woman/wife is emotionally secure in who she is and in who her husband is...why attempt to persuade her otherwise? She has educated herself on the subject of male sexuality...I suggest that you do the same.
also, I know that a lot of people will disagree with me, but porn is not beautiful. Sex between to people who love each other is beautiful. Porn is tasteless, and objectifies women. These women having sex with several different partners in one day and contracting STDs and such is not beautiful. It's very sad. Anyone with an addiction puts the addiction first. In this case, above you. He had to get his fix of porn, instead of getting a fix from you. That's not beautiful, that's a problem.
Read some good books about male sexuality...Marty Klein, David Ley, or Darryl Ray...or any other up-to-date information from reputable sources. The LDS church is living in the past and is having a really difficult time processing scientific research on the subject.
life is nothing without Jesus, these "ex mormons" glory on leaving that "church" but the real life satisfaction and salvation is in the Lord - they need to learn that
This is their path, not yours. Don't assume you know what they've been through, where they are, etc. You're not in their shoes, and cannot be any sort of objective judge. Let people tell their stories without passing judgement on things you don't know anything about. What works for you doesn't work for everyone else. No, the church _does not work for everyone_ . Tell lgbt people that the church is for everyone. Tell it to intersex people. See how well they've done following the commandments, being a faithful Mormon AND finding any sort of inner peace, harmony and contentment. That, too, is something you very likely know nothing about.
+דוד ב . Personally I find the rampant under-the-surface sexuality in much of scripture to be pretty damn hot. I don't have sex at the moment because I have a fiancee in another country and so it completely suited me to take the vow but wow, it certainly creates some fun tensions in Sunday School! :)
It's about having differing libidos. Imagine if you ate like a four year old child...wouldn't you be hungry for more? Would we catch you eating late at night? Would we catch you eating something other than macaroni and cheese? Would you like it if we shamed you and labeled you as a sex/porn addict? Then told you to straighten your life out (after a disciplinary council) or there will be consequences.
Like all of His creations, God made us in a wide variety of colors, shapes and sizes with specific personalities and desires. Every boy is different. Girls are the same. I've heard stories like yours before. Another point - I find it insulting how Mormons - the guys, claim to have magical spiritual power over other people. Elder, let me show you where your priesthood power came from,,,, (pull my finger)
@cindybin2001 Again, no specific comments or helpful discussion. You're just repeating your claims that it's ridiculous and unbelievable and continuing to be offended. This accomplishes nothing.
Don't think of it as a "fix" but more as a regulated and regular (as in, "time sensitive") sneeze. It is "regulated" by the use of pornography and is considered "regular" because of libido. This "addiction" jargon has no place here or anywhere in the scientific community.
Religion is notorious for making little things appear larger than they really are. Just go live with the Muslim community and you'll catch my drift. Listen to some of Sam Harris here on CZcams. You won't invalidate their religious journey.
What a fantastic series! I wish that *every* Mormon would be brave enough to watch this. The shame & suppression that happens, not just with sex but certainly that is a major one, is so devastating, and the 'authority' makes you feel that it's because of your own inadequacy & unloveableness from god instead of their insidious rules. Leaving the church was the best thing I could have ever done & I'm grateful every day that I did.
What a beautiful, hopeful message. If your marriage is worth it, keep working. You can make it through. Thanks.
Ex Jehovah's witness here... this is ridiculously close to home...
been there done that, the guilt, the fear, the shame, etc etc... the watching your back while in the corner shop buying porn mags..
100% agreement: Pornography doesn't harm you. Hating yourself for liking pornography does.
My ex and I did indeed get divorced as we left the Mormon church, mostly because when it was all said and done, there was nothing real holding us together. Our lives were Hell together but we were afraid to admit it due to church teachings. We were afraid to face the facts because of what we were taught that it would mean. I'm now happily remarried and I am a far happier person than I was in my previous marriage which I had rushed into due to cultural expectations within the Mormon church.
Personally, pornography is not a problem unless if it's 1. Child porn or anything involving a child 2. Rape or violence (however, that is a gray zone for me because the actors/actresses had to consent to do the shooting of the porn and other reasons) 3. Anything involving an animal 4. Or unless the porn is actually an addiction when it interferes with your everyday life. Other than that porn is not a big deal in moderation. Nothing to be ashamed of.
Tiffany Huynh that's what they said, yes.
No such thing as pornography addiction.
I just stumbled upon your video and I love it. I wish that there were more women in the U.S. like you. I wish more women who are emotionally secure could tackle these conversations in order to help those who can't understand male sexuality. Instead they (wives who have husbands that view) go to Al-anon for information on what to do. So sad, as this can only cause suffering on both sides of the marriage. If you'd like to have a good laugh I decided to converse with all of the nay sayers below.
keep spreading the truth guys, its so important. Thanks for doing this guys and I hope you know how many peoples lives your changing for the better!
@KerriBodie you're wrong about the idea of people objectifying nude art and those who pose nude for artists! I KNOW ALL about nude art. I studied art history, I've drawn nudes. I've talked to the models as human beings! They enjoy serving artists to help them excel in painting, drawing, constructing, animating the human body accurately! Nude art is necessary and very helpful! Anyone who is not an artist will not understand that concept. They will only see nude art with childish immature eyes.
@KerriBodie I must have misunderstood the point you made to that person. Sounded like you still struggled with the mormon mindset when it came to nude art. All the mormon "girls" I dated, only one of them tried to cover up my artistic eyes while in a nude art gallery. We had major debates about that incident for the next few days. Her parents sheltered her, plus she listened to church leaders suppressing messages way too much. Religion destroys the celebration of the beauty of the human body.
I left the church about 16 years ago. You've both been able to put in words many things that I have felt been never been able to aptly describe...especially the notion of deconstructing. I completely deconstructed, and a lot of people never understood that, always saying things about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It has been a long process for me to finally reach what I feel is MY belief system and I couldn't have gotten here without deconstructing.
@malwambi
Any commandment not to feel a certain way or think a certain thing is frightening. Your feelings come from deep within you; you do not choose what to feel. Sexual desire, AKA "lust," is instinctive and totally unavoidable. If you believe that your god will judge you for the primal instincts he built you with, then you need to carefully evaluate how sane that belief is.
@AWinterDemise I talked with friends the other day about lessons we received as teenagers in the Mormon church. Almost nothing on sexuality itself, but always a massive emphasis on repressing sexual urges, to the point where a normal, healthy desire for sex was made to seem like a dark, evil aspect of our nature. It is not uncommon for people to have trouble enjoying, initiating or communicating about sex in marriage because they spent so long thinking of it as something to resist & avoid.
Thanks..I did try suicide and felt the deep shame for mastubating every 3 months or so. Then I found drinking eased the shame and so about every 3 months I drank. I am 61 now and have just 6 months or so leared the church is not true. Thanks for teaching those like myself that it's normal and you don't need to beat yourself up over this stuff. If I could give you both a big hug I would.
It is a far cry between normal adolescent sexual exploration and masturbation, and adult masturbation, to pornography. NOT the same thing. Sexual relationships should be enjoyed within the confines of marriage and not include anyone else including images of anyone else. Whatever you want to do between you - go for it. The marriage bed is undefiled. But pornography has an evil spirit behind it...It is addictive, and has the potential to tear apart even a great marriage.
Quite frankly, you, sir/ma'am are wrong on many levels. Care to discuss?
Jesus said that if a man looks at a woman to lust after her he has committed adultery in his heart. It's virtually impossible to masturbate or view porn without lusting after a specific person depicted therein. It seems impossible to fulfill this teaching of Jesus in one's life while also masturbating or viewing porn.
Jesus Christ was an asexual man...I don't say this to be derogatory just to spell out the fact that one can't have a good marriage without lust (dopamine and adrenaline) it's what got you married in the first place.
Do mormon bishops listen to all these lurid confessions and not get turned on? Pornography can be harmful depending on the circumstance, but shame, blame and regret is way worse.
"Fire, to destroy what you've done. Fire, to end what you've become". Let us step into the sun and cleanse our minds. What is left is what's real. When you have overcome. The bed is clean. It is no longer pornography. A futurist described the passions as erotica. It's okay to be human.
When she says pornography is beautiful, she is not talking about just "porn". The missionaries had taught me that even music videos could be considered porn or some paintings and sculptures could be considered porn just because it was the naked human body. She wasn't necessarily talking about people having sex together, she was meaning artwork and stuff other than that.
No, even pornography (people being sexual) can be considered artsy.
I'm an atheist but I think that pornography should be outlawed. I actually agree with a lot of what the LDS Church believes about sexuality.
That's too bad.
@AWinterDemise There's one object lesson where the teacher starts the lesson chewing a piece of gum & then offers it to someone. As they recoil, she then makes her point - that a girl (& girls are taught about virtue far more often than the boys) who has just done more than kiss before marriage is like a chewed piece of gum no man would want. How do you think that makes those girls feel? Instead of helping youth make rational, informed decisions, there is always guilt and threat of rejection.
That chewed up gum demonstration needs to stop. Honestly, I don't think many LDS guys care about virginity before marriage...especially if she's really cute.
2:46 did she just say that porn is beautiful? While I can understand the point of not making this into such a big deal that it destroys your marriage, if my significant other had an addiction to porn, that would be a problem for me. Yes, I would never want them to lose their attraction for me. But with porn he is getting aroused by these women. Observing a beautiful woman walk past is much different than watching that same woman have sex and getting off to watching her.
Yes, they are different scenarios. Are you being for real here? They are both about fantasy, however one is virtual while the other is tangible. You would prefer your husband to have a tangible fantasy over a virtual fantasy? Think on these two different scenarios for a moment. Let me know what you come up with.
you shouldn't presume to tell someone who they should want.
@KerriBodie It's not just about the plotting. Lusting after someone goes beyond mere appreciation of their body, even if the person looking has zero intention of doing anything about it. I feel the same about porn. Whether you agree with watching it or not, to deny it's objectifying is crazy. OF COURSE people are objectified in porn - very deliberately so. Real movies have much more powerful sex scenes, but don't allow the emotional distancing that porn does & sometimes that's what people want.
You really should think about educating yourself on male sexuality.
I might add, I don't fault anyone for leaving Mormonism - I totally do not agree with it, and think they have it all wrong. There are other sexually repressive issues within Mormonism than just the thing about pornography....the wearing of the garments, for example. A good friend of mine left when the 'church' decided that it was time for her and her husband to have another baby. That's not what God intended the church to intervene on, I don't think!!
the church see's the damage pornography does an u want to ignore it an play it off as normal an good
What kinds of "damage" does pornography cause?
u shouldnt want someone who doesnt take sex seriously
Sex should be fun. Are you one of those people who makes sex so serious that you and/or your partner starts having performance anxiety? So sad.
Justify porn? Seriously? Teaching it to your kids?
What is "stuff like this"? Try making sense.
@cindybin2001 Are you even watching these videos? You're not making any kind of specific comment on what they're saying or addressing any of the issues that they've brought up in their discussions. You're just posting the same "I can't believe someone would say this" on every video. What is it about this video that you disagree with...specifically? What is it you think they don't understand?
A good way to look at life is to pop a few a diet pills backed up by some zanax
And you're argument of "but he does the dishes and folds laundry and loves our children." is the same argument as getting beaten and then saying, "my husband hits me, but he does the dishes and does laundry and loves our kids and pays the bills." It's an excuse and it doesn't fix the problem - it's disrespectful towards you and you have every right to be angry
Wow, stirring the pot! This woman/wife is emotionally secure in who she is and in who her husband is...why attempt to persuade her otherwise? She has educated herself on the subject of male sexuality...I suggest that you do the same.
also, I know that a lot of people will disagree with me, but porn is not beautiful. Sex between to people who love each other is beautiful. Porn is tasteless, and objectifies women. These women having sex with several different partners in one day and contracting STDs and such is not beautiful. It's very sad. Anyone with an addiction puts the addiction first. In this case, above you. He had to get his fix of porn, instead of getting a fix from you. That's not beautiful, that's a problem.
How many porn stars do you know? Do you know anything about addiction?
Oh my god !! Mostly everyone watches porn no big deal
If you don't neede it why you keep using it?
Read some good books about male sexuality...Marty Klein, David Ley, or Darryl Ray...or any other up-to-date information from reputable sources. The LDS church is living in the past and is having a really difficult time processing scientific research on the subject.
life is nothing without Jesus, these "ex mormons" glory on leaving that "church" but the real life satisfaction and salvation is in the Lord - they need to learn that
This is their path, not yours. Don't assume you know what they've been through, where they are, etc. You're not in their shoes, and cannot be any sort of objective judge.
Let people tell their stories without passing judgement on things you don't know anything about. What works for you doesn't work for everyone else. No, the church _does not work for everyone_ . Tell lgbt people that the church is for everyone. Tell it to intersex people. See how well they've done following the commandments, being a faithful Mormon AND finding any sort of inner peace, harmony and contentment. That, too, is something you very likely know nothing about.
oh yes, and why the hell do you need to share this on youtube????
Because it has the potential to save marriages.
And the potential to help younger people whom feel horrible about themselves for no reason
Im I the only one missing the fact he can have actual marital sex instead of watching porn?
+דוד ב . Personally I find the rampant under-the-surface sexuality in much of scripture to be pretty damn hot. I don't have sex at the moment because I have a fiancee in another country and so it completely suited me to take the vow but wow, it certainly creates some fun tensions in Sunday School! :)
It's about having differing libidos. Imagine if you ate like a four year old child...wouldn't you be hungry for more? Would we catch you eating late at night? Would we catch you eating something other than macaroni and cheese? Would you like it if we shamed you and labeled you as a sex/porn addict? Then told you to straighten your life out (after a disciplinary council) or there will be consequences.
Like all of His creations, God made us in a wide variety of colors, shapes and sizes with specific personalities and desires. Every boy is different. Girls are the same. I've heard stories like yours before. Another point - I find it insulting how Mormons - the guys, claim to have magical spiritual power over other people. Elder, let me show you where your priesthood power came from,,,, (pull my finger)
Sources?
Refusing to even consider their argument - grow up
What is your opinion on pornography in marriage?
sorry, spoke too soon
she has issues, too
What are those "issues" you claim that she has?
@cindybin2001 Again, no specific comments or helpful discussion. You're just repeating your claims that it's ridiculous and unbelievable and continuing to be offended. This accomplishes nothing.
@rivenrock thats what i do :D
poor woman, she seems nice, but this cat has issues
hey - who don't
What issues?
if u dont need your fix u wouldnt do it
Don't think of it as a "fix" but more as a regulated and regular (as in, "time sensitive") sneeze. It is "regulated" by the use of pornography and is considered "regular" because of libido. This "addiction" jargon has no place here or anywhere in the scientific community.
lol start by watching videos before you comment on them.
blaming the church for ur own problem grow up
Religion is notorious for making little things appear larger than they really are. Just go live with the Muslim community and you'll catch my drift. Listen to some of Sam Harris here on CZcams. You won't invalidate their religious journey.