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Star Trek The Next Generation Ruminations S3E10: The Defector
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- čas přidán 2. 12. 2018
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James Sloyan is a phenomenally underrated actor. I still view his performance in 'Jetrel' as the greatest Star Trek guest star performance of all time, and his portrayal of Admiral Jarok in this episode is not far off....
The richness of Sloyan’s performance e.g. as he thinks of all the things he misses about his former life was wonderful. An underrated episode. Deep Space Nine (which I prefer greatly to TNG) deals wonderfully with the politics.
this is one of my favorite Next Generation episodes.
I think the acting is top notch, good amount of tension, and I love how the whole episode is framed around Henry V and around the Cuban Missile Crisis.
and Andreas Katsulas was brilliant as Tomalak.
I think the reason why the Romulans did not commit to the deception and build a structure or anything else on Nelvana III was because it was actually in the Neutral zone and not their own space. The treaty allows for probes to be sent in but not ships nor allow structures to be built. The whole point of admiral Jarok trying to warn the federation was because he thought the romulans were preparing to void the treaty and start a war. Building the base their would be the first step. And building the base would itself be an act of war if the federation could expose it first. Meanwhile the actual romulan plan was to lure the federation in and make them look like the aggressors and declare that the federation was starting the war.
But if they went too far with the deception, if they *ACTUALLY* built something on nelvana III, the federation could scream "THERE! YOU SEE! THEY VIOLATED THE TREATY FIRST!" and even if it was just a giant teddy bear the political situation would still be unfavorable to the romulans. So they only went as a far as to have a cloaked probe that would arouse suspicion, but wasn't itself a violation of the treaty (as the federation could send probes too).
Speaking on the starship balance, I’d like to postulate my own theory on the Bird of Prey model.
There are three variants in Star Trek, each of which does something else. The D-12, which we see in the movies, the B’Rel, which we see in DS9, and the K’Vort, which we see in TNG.
The D-12 is the dozen crewmen little scout that can land on planets and swings its wings through all four positions: landed (up tall), warp (the round bulges being line of sight at the joint (where I’ve always headcannoned the nacelles to be)), cruising (flat), and attack (down). It’s just a scout ship, and it was easy to refit for Chang’s model.
The B’Rel is the light cruiser about the size of the Defiant, but introduced towards the end of the Excelsior’s reign as the top dog of the Quadrant (around when the Ambassador was built, I’d guess). It has two positions for its wings: warp and attack. It can’t swing them as far, and it’s more maintenance intensive, but it can still fight fast and do a lot of damage. While the original was designed to have some drag and flight capacity in atmosphere, the B’Rel can use them as fuel or munitions storage, increasing their mission profile.
The K’Vort is the massive variant that is close to the Galaxy-class’ saucer section in wingspan, which can’t move its wings at all. This thing is essentially a torpedo boat. It has massive wings filled to bursting with torpedoes, and super-heavy disrupters on the wings. This thing is designed to alpha strike you with disruptive blasts and clusters of torpedoes from the bow after it decloaks, and either support from the rear of a formation or just keep letting loose on torpedoes and pray you can’t dodge enough before you get around behind their bulk and shoot them to death.
As for the birds of prey. They are k'vort class heavy cruisers, not B'rel classes. The k'vorts are pretty big. About the same length as a constitution class and can usually be called out by the fact that they are only ever seen with their wing pylons raised (although I'm pretty sure you only see them here and in yesterday's enterprise and redemption). Arguably I like to argue that they are one of the workhorses of the Klingon fleet. If the Vorcha is to the klingons as the galaxy is to the Federation then the k'vort would likely be like the excelsior or maybe miranda (depending on how powerful you think the k'tinga is in the 24th Century.) I actually really wish they'd kept using the notion cos seeing the k'vort class in way of the warrior would have been awesome.
That Birds of Prey are the same ones they reused in "Yesterdays Enterprise".
Heavy Cruiser Kvort class or whatever. Pretty strong as you see in "Yesterdays Enterprise".
Interesting enough - Ronald D Moore did an updated version of this script in Battlestar when Bulldog escapes the Cylon prison, and despite being chased he is let go. The difference is Galactica analyses his flight path and figures out that he was let go and then confronts him. So it would see Ronald learned from his mistakes.
Head Cannon: This was in part a response to "The Enemy" and there were elements that saw the Federation (and Picard as weak). Tomalak did not share that assessment but this whole scheme was in part to "prove it" one way or fhe other. Part of the smile on Tomalak's face for several reasons- His assessment of Picard being right, justification for his choice not to fire, and perhaps even this prevented Bokra from being executed. The Federation are not weak, not cowards, not to be trifled with, and are "reliable". He was correct not to risk his ship in battle.
The "gentleman" you were referring to in the holodeck recreation is Simon Templeman...the same man who goes on to voice Kain in the Legacy of Kain series.
"Given the choice: whether to rule a corrupt and failing empire, or to challenge Fate for another throw; a better throw against our destiny. What was a king to do? But does one ever have a choice? One can only match move-by-move the machinations of Fate...and thus defy the tyrannous stars."
First thing, before I forget (since I watch these right after I watch the episode itself):
I really wish that in Unification, Picard had mentioned delivering the letter to be one of his agenda items. Just a throwaway line from Data even.
“You delivered the message?”
“Yes sir. They will find no trace of who delivered the data chip.”
“Good. Now we can begin our mission in earnest.”
Using their trip to Romulus both to deliver the letter and to use the letter’s arrival as a decoy while they found the ambassador.
About the war mongering thing. There was a survey done across british cities after Normandy, asking british civilians if they were for or against firebombing german suburbs to demoralize them and hinder their workforces from continuing to manufacture etc. Cities that were hit by the german blitz voted against firebombing german civilians, and cities that were unaffected by the blitz voted in favor of the firebombing and won the vote. To me that's the best testament to the quote "Those who do not know war hunger for it". Civilians who lost their homes, their loved ones, their livelihoods to an enemy, who they now have the chance to do the same thing to their people and that thought was overwhelmingly rejected. They understood the suffering it wrought and didn't want anyone, not even the civilians who's military did it to them to experience it.
This is my favourite Sloyan Trek role.
On the question of the holodeck, I think that using it as both a hobby device and a tool would be great. Having it make an art studio and/or theater to practice would certainly make your intended art better because of the practice you make on the holodeck. On the other hand it could make your art worse if you muck with the settings, so there is that problem. Now, on to other matters.
The investigation segment on the warbird and scout chase, I disagree with you. Granted, having it in the middle gives the game up, but if it was moved and given a small tweak or two it could have set up that scene with Admiral Jarok perfectly. As an example, say that the scene was placed right before the Enterprise got to Nelvana III. Geordi has been doing a side research project on the Warbird/Scout chase to see the power levels on both ships or the flight speed or something. He sees that the Warbird let Jarok go just before Picard calls for Jarok on the bridge and informs Picard before the Admiral gets there and Picard adds two and two before laying it out for the Admiral...perfect setup for Jarok to realize he's been played.
The computer only knowing the Celsius scale could have been a dig on Worf's part to needle the possible spy. If you remember, Worf was told to see to the security arrangements for "Sublieutenant Setol". If you were a spy given access to a machine that can replicate matter, what's the first thing you do? You would make a bomb or a disruptor or something to effect escape and conduct sabotage. Easy.
On your Romulans committing to a strategy, I think there was something more we didn't see...no pun intended. The Romulan Military and Tal Shiar, to me at least, are the masters of the backup and redundancy plan. They knew of Alidar's dissatisfaction with the Government, any plan to root out disloyalty would have to be convoluted enough to fool a brilliant strategist like Alidar Jarok. The cloaked probe, if the plan succeeded, could be explained away in the propaganda machine or detonated and buried in red tape if the plan failed.
Last notes, if I remember my ship models right the Klingon Warships are K'Vort class heavy destroyer/light crusier vessels. Between the Enterprise being a Galaxy class heavy crusier/borderline dreadnought ship and three heavy destroyer/light cruisers versus two D'deridex dreadnoughts...I'd call it a wash. On the matter of your headcanon/theory, it mixes with mine perfectly. Mine always went that this was both a way to provoke a war and to weed out the "enemies of the state". If the Enterprise was destroyed or captured, they had a propaganda coup even Khrushchev would drool over. If it failed, one traitor escaped...oh well.
As a Romulan player, I would love for there to be a quest where you have to retrieve and deliver Jarok's letter.
Bow before the federation.
I don't think Tomalak should have survived this defeat, politically. The Romulan empire has a really low tolerance for this sort of failure.
Picard loves Shakespeare, but he's not, by his own admission, much of an actor.
The other actor in there is Simon Templeman: "Kneel before Nor." if you used to watch the New Adventures of Lois and Clark. Templeman was, by the way, also the main antagonist in Dead Space 3.
This episode got me. Here's a man that gave everything even the love of his children to make sure that everyone had a future. It doesn't matter that it "meant nothing" it matters that he tried to make a better world and for it he died alone with the knowledge he was hated and beaten. Horrifying and sad. Great episode.
Thank you for another great rumination! These are amazing. Thank you for taking the time to make these!
This along with "The Enemy" are among my favorite episode in TNG. I wonder if Picard managed to deliver the letter to Jerac daughter during the Romulan evacuation?
The Command on the Enterprise knew something was up when they calculated the Romulans allowed Admiral Jarok to escape. They should have calculated the possibility that he was a dupe and not a plant and treated him accordingly. This was too valuable an intelligence prize to treat him the way they did. To actually taunt him on the bridge. They should have shielded him from the fact that he was a dupe and psychologically prepared him to handle it. He was too valuable an asset to the Federation to lose through suicide. Picard could have convinced him to take a broader long-term view on the subject of peaceful relations, and not be so fixated on the situation at hand. Bad spy craft. One would have expected more from Karla...
A truly brilliant episode on TNG, thank you for taking the time to deliver your thoughts.
4:00. Picard is observing Data critically from OUTSIDE the scene - the way an audience member would - in order to mentor him. This would not be possible if Picard were busy trying to play a character. His decision makes complete sense, and I am puzzled why Lore chooses to question it. IMO, he is mistaken to do so. The scene got it right. Nick :-)
I would use the Holodeck for gaming obviously. I am sure the computer could read and extrapolate from a copy of Skyrim, Fallout 3/NV/4 to make a GREAT real looking simulation. And off course every person in game would have full detail, all the bells and whistles so I am sure sex could come into the picture at some point too... ;-)
Oh my gosh yes. I mean hell even fallout 76 as the holodeck could atcually make nPcs and despite the backlash if we were playing fallout 76 in a holodeck Npc or not wed still be immersed.
Its interesting how many times the Romulans violate the Neutral Zone and the Federation doesn't DO anything.
One of the very best eps. Picard uses one of my favorite things: Backup! He knows he needs to prep for a romulan trap. And sure enough, he’s spot on. Side note: you’re right about acting. There’s a decent dose of shame that happens to a lot of people, whether they’re actors or not. For me, the failure is one of the main draws to me. It’s a low stakes platform to learn that it’s ok to fail and also that failures can lead to surprising new ideas. Beyond the important lesson that it’s ok to fail, in fact failure is the great teacher (as Dr. Polaski might say). The humiliation is a shared experience and so becomes a source of strength and allows for less fear/intimidation speaking to groups in regular life.
I wonder if this might have been a "loyalty test" of sorts to see if he was worthy of getting elevated higher in the command structure...
Regarding the final showdown I think the Romulans would've barley won the battle, but didn't want to risk a two front war with the Klingons and Federation.
I didn't realize how great this episode was until I rewatched it for the Rumination. It's soooo good.
Yes, one of the BEST episodes! Best Romulan Episode until "Face of the Enemy".
Maybe Picard was in the scene twice because that was a holodeck recording of him acting the scene as that character before, and using his personal Shakespeare program with Data.
I think the Roman scout ship wasn't that good, does not flow the way the Warbird does,
I like how Worf receives a signal from the Klingon Empire, sets up for later, a 'blink and you miss it' scene.
Maybe 'celsius only' was a side effect of a security program. Limited computer access on the replicator for the suspicious person and limitations are in place, even minor ones.
I'm sure everyones favourite scene is the confrontation, I would always fantasize what about 2 more Romulans decloaking after that and Picard saying "Alert the rest of them" and 3 more Klingons appear. Yeah, so fun, could go on forever with that right?
Jarok was great, sad that he died, so many great things about this episode.
Yeah, he must have been the source of most info, except the long range scans that aloud for the holodeck program of Romulas earlier with Data.
When did the Federation scan Romulas? Before this of course, not before the season finale "The Neutral Zone" or that would have been noticed by the Romulans. So the Fed conducted long range scans sometime during season 2, probably part of the deal to look for the ship that was responsible for missing stations along the neutral zone, "let's scan more into Romulan space while trying to figure out what happened here".
Great analysis of one of my favorite TNG episodes, Lore. I appreciate the short personal anecdote for comparison.
Possibly my absolute favourite TNG ep. I might put it joint first with BoBW. Everything is just spot on in terms of acting prowess. Picard's whole exchange with Tomalok is absolute perfection. (Also it kind of implies that viewscreens are 3D). It's my view that the Romulans knew they wouldn't provoke a war even if they had destroyed the enterprise. I'm pretty sure that they would have broadcasted it to the larger alpha and beta quadrant community that the Federation had broken the treaty by entering the neutral zone merely on the say so of some "deluded and war hungry" admiral who would have most likely painted as mentally disturbed or had been taken in by federation "propaganda". And thus the Federation would have had to have backed down. It seems like all of the Romulans plans are rooted around breaking up the Federation. Not destroying it or conquering it but simply making it so that members of the Federation feel they are better off on their own.
I disagree on your point around the 20:00 minute mark. I like the scene telling that the warbird slowed down BECAUSE it's perfect proof they let him go. See, in my experience watching the episode for the first time. After that moment, I saw the admiral as a liar and a spy from that moment on. For me, the mystery was solved. So imagine my surprise (which is more and more rare as I get writing experience) that he WAS genuine.
The story in my opinion was a double bluff. And.... honestly a tragedy. He tried so hard but he simply didn't have the capacity to change the world. Watching it a second time knowing he's genuine and manipulated by his own people hurts.
Realizing after writing though, I remember you've said you dislike that kind of writing specifically for the audience
Though I noticed the little hints with Worf I didn't see the Klingon ships coming.
I literally went YEAH on my couch when they uncloaked :D
Been waiting on this on..one of my all time favs..great built up with intense ending with a chess like feel to it..who didn't love that surprise ending with the enterprise in such a bad place to then pull off the Klingon backup...loved the tomalak/ Picard exchange at the ending..there was a scene where you could see tomalak thinking up a piss poor on the fly excuse for why they are there..GREAT FUNNY STUFF...as well as when tomalak drops the pretense when Picard mentions if he thinks the enterprise will allow itself to be caputured..look at the intense facade drop as tomalak greedy smirks/smiles as he answers...loved it. What truly makes the epi is jarok and how by the end of the this and his life we have Picards somber speech about taking jarok letter home, it pulls emotion out of you for jarok if you were unsure about him by Picard showing respect for everything he risked and sacrificed.
Fed's intel came from Admiral Jarok? Anti-Klingon intel operations increased after the events of this episode??
Mind=blown.
Hot take! "I don't think Shakespeare is all that great."
I totally agree.
This is also one of my favorite episodes of all time. The acting across the board was superb, and the story was excellent. What's more, we finally got to see a Romulan who didn't behave as a dishonest, slimy weasel for its own sake. In fact, I think it was the last time, too! At least in TNG.
28:10 You are 37 and never attended a funeral? That is very unusual.
Superlative writing and acting! ⭐️⭐️
Loved the Shakespeare! I also prefer someone more contemporary. But Tennessee Williams doesn’t fit into Trek as well. And the Klingon version of “A Streetcar Named Desire” was a flop. 😉
(Though Klingon romances are often just like “Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf.”)
I wish the actor who played John Bates also played a crewman to show that Picard has others on the ship with whom he does Shakespeare.
I really enjoy this episode, one of my faves. I've worked on corporate investigations and audits all my life, and all I ever see is paperwork, so the fact that all the data Jarok was fed turned out to be bogus really hits me. This touches on a very real fear in so many people in the real world. It is difficult to properly describe the feeling of putting all of yourself into analyzing data that you know darn well may not have any basis in reality. You also know you will likely have to defend this potentially false information to people who know more about the real truth than you do. Jarok's performance does a great job to portray these feelings in ways I never could with words.
As we go more into the age of digital information, the themes in this episode will continue to be more and more relevant, and I feel that it is one of those few TNG episodes that could become truly timeless.
On a lighter note, maybe the reason Picard specifies his Earl Grey to be "hot", rather than give a temperature, is because he doesn't know the Fahrenheit to Celsius conversion. It all makes sense now!
Picard states that he is "not much of an actor" in A Fistful of Datas, he is not extroverted. It would go against his leadership style for him to act in a holodeck production with a subordinate. That's why he took guinan (she has no rank) into the Dixon hill programs where he acted awkwardly -
too much "head canon" more not enough actual canon
24:01
Henry Fonda was not very extroverted, either, until he had a script to follow, then he could fake it with the best of them.
Season 3 has such good stories, and this is one of my favourite episodes. I love me some Tomalak, and he really should have been in more episodes, and I like his presence of always being on the view screen, and that should be how he is always presented. It would have been great if he had interactions with a particular half-Romulan who will show up soon, and I like to think the plot to undo the Federation-Klingon alliance would have been hatched by Tomalak and said half-Romulan.
Using gut feelings is not illogical. It would be illogical to ignore a tool our mind gives us to quickly process and use information that our conscious mind can't put into words but our subconscious has picked up on. If an answer can be reached by logic that is articulable then that is preferable, but if not it would be irrational and illogical to not use the other tools evolution has given us.
Best music in an episode of TNG?
Tomalok and Picard.. Khang and Kirk. Moriarty and Holmes...
Well it's my old adversary.
Picard is the most senior Captain in the fleet, commanding the Flag ship.
Who do the Romulans send?
A bird of prey w/ a expendable crew? No thier most powerful ships the most experienced Commander.
The technology is comparable, w/ advantages to both the Federation and the Empire.
Experience and being crafty is a value shared by both.
4:11 Well Shakespeare was a Klingon you know.
If I was a Romulan I would make my
measurement system completely incompatible with the larger quadrant.
Here in Murica we still use inches and feet because fuck the world.
Ignoring that feet and inches, and pounds and quarts, were defined by metric measurements since before the Civil War, probably before the Mexican-American War.
We use feet and inches because we are smart enough to do simple math conversions, apparently unlike those using the crutch of Metric units with their trivial factors of ten.
Excellent early Third-Season episode. It built up a mounting tension all the way up to the slightly-dissatisfying finale. It really should have been a two-parter.
Could the Romulans board Enterprise?
Better yet, after destroying shields could they beam away the Starfleet crew?
Or would it be too boring?
After all (cough spoilers), they do take prisoners.
Commented without waiting to end of video, but the beaming up question still puzzles me.
Picard is too tight to act. Yes, Picard appreciate Shakespeare.. but he would NEVER act. This was about Data too. Picard is the perfect director, not actor. Patrick how ever, was just a nice easter egg to be there.
I've heard that the birds-of-prey in this episode are an upscaled cruiser variant of the classic design.
They are. K'Vort class cruisers rather than B'Rel class birds of prey. K'Vorts are distinctive in that they usually fight with their wings positioned in the upper position. I thought for a long time that they were fixed winged ships, though it would make sense if the Klingon ship in Generations was a cruiser and not a Fighter.
Good episode
So lorerunner, if I I am hearing you right, and I think I am, what you are saying is that the ideal or highest use for a holodeck is to have sex WITH Shakespeare? I completely agree and you make an excellent point, sir
I was always wondering if Jarok would see how precisely well the Federation had data of all of Romulus and then do a 180 or requestion his requestioning. Can long range sensors be better than a Kodak moment? That was my nitpick of the episode, which was otherwise great and for the same reasons.
I think the holodeck is much more expensive than painting supplies :)!
"I don't think Shakespeare is that great."
*What!? You egg!?*
Shakespeare is 👎
This was an amazing episode, but the one thing i disliked most, was Jarok taking his own life was basically the writers hitting the Reset Button. It felt forced and contrived so next week's episode is like it never happened.
Huh, why is this video so highly downvoted compared to normal?
No idea but this is not a very popular channel and the sample is always small. It could just be a rather random event :)!
Probably because he doesn't like Shakespeare.
Yup.
Because he is way off in analyzing Picard's character in regard to the opening scene of Defector featuring two Pat Stewart's juxtaposed.
Because of the endless divergence into the Holodeck and his childhood memories, I came for talks in regards to the episode but that tangeant was way too irrelevant for me.
… I did it for nothing...
...
😭
Huh, that comment about generals not being pro war. How often in fiction that it's the generals that are pro war.
@Phelan Brings me back to the saints and sinners comment from Mass Effect.
vor'cha not vorta
I don't know how I'm to keep myself in check as I wait the 30 weeks or so for you to get to "Half a Life"... I just watched the episode, and it's killing me not being to talk about it to you and the other lorerunner fans...
I also say this because, unlike with sfdebris, you don't avoid episodes that portray certain characters in a positive or sympathetic light- *cough*Lwaxanna*cough* *cough*Nelix*cough*- to fit your views of them.
Picard does not do the role of the soldier because "Picard" in the TNG universe (unlike Patrick Stewart) does not like acting and is a bad actor (which is revealed in the episode a fistful of datas).
I thought you did this one already *shrugs* oh well :)
An alternate ending would have been for Tomalak to click his fingers and have another ten Romulan ships decloak around the Klingons!
Not too much to say - great episode, enjoyed your thoughts on it.
Why did they blow up the enterprise D? It was such a sleek and big ship!
I'm not sure if you're just glossing over this, or if you actually missed these points. Knowing you, I'm pretty sure you just lost over these.
First, the scene involving noticing that the ship was allowed to escape. This seemed seemed to reinforce the obvious assumption that this was a ploy by the romulans to get the Enterprise into a compromising situation. The fact that the ship was allowed to escape, was proof that the romulans intentionally allowed this situation to arise for one reason or another. Their intentions were not known at this time, but it clearly do value our trust in the information provided by the Admiral.
I don't believe this scene should have been removed, rather a simple scene was missing. Someone sharing this information with Picard, then asking "should we let him know?" Picard would naturally respond "no, will not show our hand until the time is right." This would have covered the obvious Miss and why they did not bring this information before the Admiral.
Second, the decision to use an archaeological Pro seems fairly obvious to me. Placing a building and a generator on the planet would have required someone to enter the neutral zone to build or place these. Not only would this have been obvious once it was located, but it would have provided concrete proof that the romulans had not only entered the neutral zone, but placed structures within it. It seems much more likely to me, that the treaty would allow for Probst of non-threatening sorts such as archaeological survey to be placed orbiting planets. After all, certainly the Federation places of value on knowledge.
Otherwise, an excellent coverage of one of my favorite episodes of the series so far. I definitely enjoyed it, and as you mentioned the Admiral gave an excellent performance from the beginning showing someone desperate to gain trust in a critical situation, to the end showing someone who had gambled it all and lost.
Not a fan of this series but I'm a fan of the host.