WALK IN FREEZER DEFROST ISSUE
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- čas přidán 28. 12. 2019
- This was a service call on a walk in freezer that was too high in temp. I found that it was iced up and it also had a few other issues.
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Judging by the burnt wire I bet the defrost clock was carrying the load of the defrost heaters . And the contactor was only there to keep the heaters off while the compressor is pumping down. A minor modification to the wiring would have the time clock only actuating the control voltage only. And reduce the wear on the time clock dramatically.
I doubt that the $3 terminal was carrying heater load as that would mean that #3 terminal would be in series with the heater contactor coil and that contactor coil would also have full heater amperage (13a +) going thru it and defeat the purpose of the heater contactor. This would burn that coil in a short time. The #3 terminal should only be in series with the heater contactor coil and the compressor contactor micro switch.
Even tho the contacts on that time clock are rated for 40 amps the purpose of the heater contactor is to keep load amperage from the time clock relay.
Sometimes it seems like things wait to break until the service tech arrives, like that thermostat. I'm thankful for it
I think that they are on their way out and once the tech gets their playing around in the system the constant state changes and differing loads probably puts the last push on failing components.
Loving the content none the less.
"should have been smart and invented the phillips"
*laughs in robertson*
His frustration is so relatable, god I hate those things..
I really like how you look after the customer. Not only is it good for the customer, but it's also good for tech. You never know when or if a site manager is having a bad day and one misplaced tool or safety cone becomes a "safety issue". React the wrong way to their concerns and you may find yourself looking for a new job.
Thanks for watching bud! I will be going live on CZcams this evening 12/30/19 @5:PM (pacific time) to discuss my most recent uploads and answer questions from emails and the chat, come check it out if you can
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One of the elements in the defrost heater may have what I call an "intermittent open". I say "intermittent" because it may be a "come-and-go" problem. It may come ONLY when the ice build up that occurred when the Paragon defrost timer went defective and allowed the ice to reach a large enough density and mass that it impinged on the heater element at a high enough pressure ( force) to slightly interfere (open/resist) electron flow in that element and/or do the same thing to the high temperature safety limit switch embedded within the evaporator coil that is wired in series with the specific element that had the abnormally low amperage draw. You may only get that amperage draw problem when the ice amasses to the level it can only amass to when the defrost system is not working. I could be wrong. I have seen alot of stranger problems over my two plus decades in this beautiful trade. Been around the block a few times in the HVAC/R skilled trade. As usual, you put out another interesting video.
Tyrone Sheppard; Good perspective. Thanks for sharing, bud
You are Great Technician, This is the type of candidates every company needs ! its good to watch your videos and learn.
Kind of laughed to myself when you were checking to make sure the power was off. I did exactly as you were doing. Meter showed it was dead. Started working on unit and got shocked, one knife didnt pull all the way out, meter decided to take a dump at that point, Murphy's law, right? Now I test to ground before and after turning disconnect off, I dont like surprises.
By the way. I learned this trade from a guy just like you, even looked a bit like you, but he was kinda cocky. He really knew his stuff. He told me the same thing about the rope. I Still do it to this day, frustration saver.
He also pounded in my head "air flow is king, if it isn't proper air flow, none of your other reading will make sense.
Thanks for the videos. Keeps me motivated to do better.
I love it that you dig deeper to look for causation and or additional issues that could pop up later.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one that wonders if things are going to blow up in my face after Iv "Fixed it". So many people don't understand, That "burnt out wire" is just ware it failed that time, and the next one could be something that I'm holding or is more explosive.
Great troubleshooting skills on display, great work Chris Happy Holidays!
Stuff I used to work on was JIS slotted with a hex cap. Even if you stripped the JIS slot you could still get the screw out with a driver. It's the little things that make the difference.
I always look forward to you putting out new videos! Great stuff man thanks!
Holy cow that ohm's calculator formula was brilliant. Learned so much from this video.
Dude what a great video about walk-in. I’m a apprentice electrician, but I also like refrigeration figuring stuff out! You’re really great at what you do! I’m just new in trades right now! I hope to get good journeyman like you to teach me stuff.
Never knew about the ohms law calculator..Learning something new everyday!! Thanks Chris
Good video and thanks for taking the time you take to show the little things too.
Some HVACR channels seem to show the flashy stuff and the "self pat on the back" for a diagnosis or repair. The problem is that they leave too much unexplained leaving the viewer with a lot of guesswork to do.
The 82 volts on the disconnected wires look a whole lot like capacitive coupling to me. That side of the circuit was floating open and the wires run next to each other. If you put a 1k resistor on it for a small load, I bet it would poof right down to zero. On a 240 loop the coupling puts it to 90-100v in my experience with my meter's resistance.
👍🏻👍🏻
Very thorough and complete. Great diagnostic procedures.
Very nice job. I mentioned several times before that if the voltage is low the amount of heat the heaters produce drops something like four times less. You have a serious voltage issue with the local utility. I worked for an electrical utility for many years and we used to see this on electric waters. Installers would put large commercial electric water heaters in kitchens and the voltage was 240 elements on a 208 system. They never changed the elements to 208 volts and the heaters would way under perform due to the wrong elements. Someone needs to see the local utilities and correct that voltage to the 208 volts required by the equipment. Possibly could be done at the local transformer taps. Low voltage will destroy compressors and other equipment. Thanks for the great video's.
Its all over southern California the utility wont do anything about 202 volts its normal we always run low like that, I will be going live on CZcams this evening 12/30/19 @5:PM (pacific time) to discuss my most recent uploads and answer questions from emails and the chat, come check it out if you can
czcams.com/video/XNnsDZUitZQ/video.html
Glad to hear you love your wand🤣🤣🤣
And happy holidays
Thank you for sharing these videos. I am just learning the trade with my best friends company. But I like to learn how to do repairs from a different perspective. I am just learning. I usually just repair and service ice machines. I am old so it is difficult for me to work on roofs. But I am always trying to learn more. Thank your for sharing.
Awesome videos Chris. Thanks for the info bro. Shout out from Highland, CA
I work in industrial spaces quite a bit, (460V 3 phase). I've learned a trick from the old timers, that before you flip a disconnect, you take a deep breath in and hold it, that way if the disconnect or breaker has a catastrophic short, you won't breathe in the ball of plasma that it creates thereby saving your lungs from being scorched. Now everyone asks me if I am worried that something won't work because they can hear me holding my breath :)
I like how you explain everything you do,to help the new guys.With flat head screws though,I think you can get it tighter.But I hate them.
Whoever purchases, uses, or keeps using flathead screws are the real villains.
nice job Chris! Jeff and I watched this video together in Jeff's Hangout.
Happy New Year Chris I really wanted a video today from you and I got my wish :)
I like the way how you diagnose the system 👍👍👍
Good video. I'm always learning new tips with your videos. Keep them coming. Let's make HVAC great.
Thanks so much! I will be going live on CZcams this evening 12/30/19 @5:PM (pacific time) to discuss my most recent uploads and answer questions from emails and the chat, come check it out if you can
czcams.com/video/XNnsDZUitZQ/video.html
Happy New Year , good job
NICE VIDEO AGAIN AND A LOT INFORMATION IN DETAIL IN ORDER TO GET A RIGHT FIX, THAT IMAGE CAMERA INFRARED IS A NICE TOOL, CONGRATULATIONS, LOOKING FOR SOME MORE VIDEOS
Great job Chris!
Good video Chris, keep up the good work👍
I worked in a Industrial Ice plant in the 1980s, and early 1990s, we ran R-22 in the freezers then, but ran R-717 Ammonia as Freon too, The freezers used a defrost clock timer like you showing in your videos, and I remember one time their was heavy ice build up on the evaporator coil. The high pressure cut out, shut the compressor off got it fix, Commercial Ice boxes, where package ice is storage also use a small defrost timer too, and when I service these units, I would turn the defrost control manually to cycle it in defrost mode, to activate the electric heaters. When I took up the trade in 1980s, R-12, and R-22, and R-502 was cheap, and at that time no EPA license was required at all, but that was then, I learn a lot, but electrical trouble shooting is very very important if you going to stay in this highly skilled trade, I also have a electrical background too.
Good Video. I was thinking about the limit switch. good catch on T-stat control. I have to remind myself to slow down some times. Cant blow through all the call just because you're super busy...
sometime there is loose connections on the electrical connector was faulty, common on HVAC. I first pull and connect. Great video
Should get a hold of your Snap-On Tool guy and ask him for a flathead and Phillips screw starter, you won’t mind flat head screws as much...
Love your videos, I work for a national building maintenance company and I don’t think many of our HVAC guys are as thorough with their diagnosis as you are, I always hear how they are constantly having to revisit sites to “try” and fix something again.
I wish I could get into the HVAC-R trade but they won’t let me sign up as an apprentice.
14:10 wow, the timer has arced for 2 years. Scary
Had a Hot-Pack unit that kept icing up even though the defrost clock and heaters were fine and ref level was good. After watching the def cycle a few times it turned out to be a defective termination stat cutting the def cycle too short. BTW - I’m not surprised that you had stray back voltage, odd voltage readings and loss of the heater strip power considering that when you were checking it everything in the electrical compartment was still buried in a thick layer of ice.
Awesome work mate👍🏻🇦🇺
You good with refrigeration! Im going to get my contractor's license soon to do air conditioning, and refrigeration!
The History behind flathead and Philippshead screws actually ist fascinating.
Great video thank you so much for your time, God Bless have a Great Day.
“I’m not the smartest genius in the world”, BUT you are a genius!!!
I appreciate your comment and thanks for watching! I will be going live on CZcams this evening 12/30/19 @5:PM (pacific time) to discuss my most recent uploads and answer questions from emails and the chat, come check it out if you can
czcams.com/video/XNnsDZUitZQ/video.html
I don't know if hvac will read this but a suggestion to why it was low ampere on the heating line..
Could a service tech have wired the two heating elements in series and you didn't notice that when you remove the wires?
You was getting ~201v and ~37ohm x2 heaters...
201v ÷ 74ohm =2.71ampat the actual heating element, you still need to factor in the cable run as well to the outside unit, which could be 0.5amp.
Im not into this side of engineering but have been caught out with other people making errors like this.
I was once given a fridge freezer what kept icing up, the manufacturer replaced the board and bits until they gave up and given the customer a new fridge freezer...
Thankfully I followed the wiring diagram and found the defrost heater attached to the compressor run.. So it never defrosted and was warm around the thermostat lol
I had same issue with a stat on a stand up cooler other day. Went out in middle of service call.
I had a good laugh about the flat head screws, I usually say the same thing about phillips head. Robertson(square) head for the win.
I need to get on the square head band wagon....... I will be going live on CZcams this evening 12/30/19 @5:PM (pacific time) to discuss my most recent uploads and answer questions from emails and the chat, come check it out if you can
czcams.com/video/XNnsDZUitZQ/video.html
I prefer Torx myself.
Robertson and torxs
Wow!! Cool ass Infra Red camera action!! Above and beyond... !! But remember....as soon as you show bubbles clearing the sight glass. you are only just barely covering the low spot on the receiver... You can charge another 10 to 15 pounds of charge to fill up that receiver...
Get yourself a set of screw-holding screw drivers for situations just like that. I think your local big box hardware store sells a Klein set for $30 bucks or so.
Last month I had same problem with Amps reading,When they were iced up and fully coverd with ice. I had only 3 amps total on heaters.
Once deiced and changed time clock,Got 11 amps and as of today no issue.
When you are in the evap section... listen for the tshh tshhh tshhh... that will be the moisture drops boiling off the heater elements...listen for it... newbies... it may take a minute... but be patient... if it is right...it will happen... Ol Sarge...
Hi - love your channel. BTW, they are called “slotted” screws as opposed to Phillips and I hate them too!!
Awesome video!!
Great video! Love the channel!!
Thanks
Nice job 👍👍👍
Thank you!
There are flathead screw screwdriver screw holders that work great. Can not only securely hold screw but also tighten it in some configurations. Have had several over the years.
Can you remember if you had to go back at all for the defrost heaters? I think you mentioned your battery was low I wonder if that would have had anything to do with low reading on the heaters in the beginning.
10:00 This was a resistive heater, the wire was running to, right? You could check how much resistance the heater has before turning it on. Sometimes two wires rub because of vibrations the isolation away and short out on the way. This type of failure is quite common and even a RCD can't pick it up, just a AFDD can. When you measure the resistance you can at least make sure there's no short which will melt the wire again. But keep an eye out for arcing with a amp meter, when you turn on such a system again.
Klein makes the absolute best hand tools, at least for my industry, I'm in telecomm and they're the gold standard.
I'm going to try to find a hook since I'm a fanboy.
Yikes!! That's a frosty McFrostertons!! Bing!! Bong!!
Liked the vid even before watching 👍
Thank you
I love your wand too,! I'm going to Lowe's and get me one
Good Job.
For me it looks like you are pinching 2 wires at 13:45 . I really like your video's, i never worked with A/C's in my life, but learning non the less.
Possible pitted contacts on the timer as well. Could have arced and melted and scorched the timer.
A safe practice you may want to use is locking out your disconnects, especially if youre going down to work on other components. You never know, some joker may come along and turn it on and fry you. ty
Watching all the commercials bro. Just left the phone on the charger on autoplay your channel
Awesome , thanks
Good video 👍
thanks bud and thanks so much for your channel support!! I will be going live on CZcams this evening 12/30/19 @5:PM (pacific time) to discuss my most recent uploads and answer questions from emails and the chat, come check it out if you can
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An interesting job. It would be worth checking to see if there is voltage drop across the heater limit switch when the heaters are powered. As others suggest, however, it could simply be a heater that goes open circuit when cold enough (frozen) - if there was enough voltage drop across the limit switch to reduce the current to ~3A, I would expect the limit switch to show signs of heat damage. It might also have been worthwhile measuring the resistance of the heater circuit from the time-clock end while you had it de-energised.
Oh, and I bet that thermostat was already unreliable before you touched it.
I wonder if people in the area are wondering who he's talking to.
I like the videos and I'm an electrician. You can learn about refrigeration.
Ha ha I'm very discreet about my filming so most don't even notice
Some weird stuff on that one for sure. The Box thermostat that failed while you were there could be possible that it would never shut the compressor off maybe it fell closed first before you adjusted it. A thermostat that never shuts the system off the unit will freeze up. On some reach ins I've seen thermostats fail closed and every time the unit becomes froze up.
I do the same exact thing with the rope too!
Hahahaha “whoever invented flathead screws is an idiot”. I believe a doctor invented them because of screwdriver slips equals money for stitches.
Great point! I will be going live on CZcams this evening 12/30/19 @5:PM (pacific time) to discuss my most recent uploads and answer questions from emails and the chat, come check it out if you can
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I'm sure they were easier to make 200 years ago, but I doubt there is any cost advantage now, so why on earth are they still used in anything?!
I've coincidentally watched two videos back to back where he complains about the standard flat head screw on top of the clock. Time to invest in a good screw holder screwdriver...
BTW Chris, I'm not a HVAC tech, but a Fire Alarm tech. After searching out a video or two on Duct Smoke Detectors I started seeing HVAC Hacker's videos on my Home/Feed, and then your channel showed up. I'm hooked! Trying to figure out how to build a similar type CZcams channel on commercial/industrial Fire & Gas, Fire Alarm and Special Hazard service. I like the style of your videos and final comments during video editing. Thanks for your efforts on putting this channel together!
they were supposed to be superseded by other screws like the Philips head, Torx, etc etc, but somehow they continued to live on.
Those pants look nice. When is the reviews coming out. 👍🏻
I don’t know anything about hvac
Very interesting
If in doubt where it leads to I use a Greenlee CS-8000 Circuit Seeker. Works every time. A high resistance connection is like the lowest point the water will flow. Keep the Water Flowing. Agreed on why put in the same. Why put Slicks on a Model A? I love Hot Gas setups for this reason.
7:24 Wedgelock screw drivers, a split shaft with a collar that you slide and it holds screw. Or Klein has a flat driver thatvi have myself to hold flats on driver. But a lot more bulky then a wedge lock flat driver
Welp, either they changed name or I misremembered the name.
Quick wedge is now the name.
Would a quick sprits of krown on the accumulator and dryer help the longjevity of them and cut back on ice build up?
Good work I have a question did termination sensor breaks the defrost before defrost timer set and turn the evap fans on ? Thanks
"slotted" screws, which refers to the driver type (slotted, Philips, torx, square, etc.). Heads are round, oval, flat, hex.
It is me again!
I randomly stumbled upon your channel one day, and i got hooked. Glad i subbed!
Thanks so much I make these videos to share the little bit of knowledge I have! I will be going live on CZcams this evening 12/30/19 @5:PM (pacific time) to discuss my most recent uploads and answer questions from emails and the chat, come check it out if you can
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@@HVACRVIDEOS I do not work in the HVACR business, nor do i have a job yet. I still enjoy these videos!
I thinking all that ice may be causing some stray currents causing the 80+ volts prob very low current. About fan delay, I replaced my consumer whirlpool control board and it didn't have fan delay after defrost which is built into the firmware on chip. They sent another and it was ok, the fan delay is so the remaining water on evap refreezes to it and so it doesn't blow heat and moisture back in freezer, usually 5 or so minutes. The numbers on the limit switches give the temp turn on and turn off set points.
Fairy's also love their wands.... LOL they are Great for evaps ans hard to reach conenser coils...IE Lennox RTU
I love your videos
Thanks so much!!
That hook is $75 plus tax where I am. HUGE pass. I'll find an alternative, or make my own for 1/10th the price... And that burnt up wire for the defrost is not "shorted". It's just as he says and it's a bad connection that overheated from the amps required for the heaters that eventually melted the wire, but it's not shorted... And you can tell this is American with the statement "should have been smart and used a phillips"... Come to Canada where we use Robertson, which blows phillips away... Sadly, our time clocks still use the same flatheads tho.
7.16 I'm totally with you there. Whoever invented flat head screws, really? You couldn't put one more slot and make it a Phillips LOL I think the guy was just so excited that he invented some sort of screw that he never went further and thought to himself, self, what if we put one more slot in the screw head? Then we would have a Phillips
Square, Torx then Phillips. Hate slotted.
Had a same issue with one of the -25°C freezer machine.
It was cleared thankfully.
#mechanicalhvacr
Why don't you use the NCV? This way you can make sure no strange wiring has been added a second energy source.
is that a K2E controller box behind you. it will be nice, if you show how to connect it and configure it and how it works. what another great video
I have lifted some pretty insane shit when I was a flat roofer with a hook just like that
You got 3% voltage drop which is acceptable thru the NEC code. Ohm out contacts on defrost contactor ?
What does the TD And R relays Functions on this condenser !
Receiver, accumulator, and compressor. Good job. Defrost timer?
Hi hvacr nice video
Thanks so much for watching! I will be going live on CZcams this evening 12/30/19 @5:PM (pacific time) to discuss my most recent uploads and answer questions from emails and the chat, come check it out if you can
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Sweep and rake roof leaf and debris. Also keeps scuppers clear.
Why not get a long screw starter to help with the flathead screws?
When charging refrigerant while it’s pumped down do you charge it until the cut in goes off and it pumps down again and then keep repeating until you have enough liquid in the receiver? Also what do you think about using MAPP gas to check the receiver level? Where you able to do it with just the thermal imaging camera? I’m new to refrigeration, used a thermal camera yesterday and didn’t notice a temp difference in the receiver. Maybe it had no liquid? Sight glass was flashing.