Ep. 14 How Lug Count Affects a Drum
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- čas přidán 11. 06. 2018
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When it comes to choosing a snare drum, lug count is often overlooked. We choose drums based on the shell design, the material, the brand, but we tend to forget how much of an effect the number of lugs has on the performance of the instrument.
In episode 14, we illustrate the difference in tuning between different lug counts. We discuss how a 10-lug isn't necessarily "better" than an 8-lug drum as well as the irony of beginner/budget-friendly drums being made with 6 lugs from a tuning perspective.
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thats the kind of information that every new born drummer must know before buy their first snare drum! Excellent!
Agreed! It can be difficult to understand if you haven't done much in the way of tuning drums, but it's worth keeping in mind anytime you sit down at a drum to tune it up to your liking. Thanks for watching!
This channel is pure gold, you guys cover in detail every aspect of drums and drumming. Hands down the best channel on the platform
Thank you so much for the kind words, Emanuele! Please help us spread the word by sharing the videos and channel with your drummer friends.
This is what a professional drum channel should look like! This guy is solid: accurate examples and technical information, perfect enunciation and grammar...geez lol, dude nailed it!!!!!
Very refreshing to see a CZcams video where the reviewer isn't trying to be a comedian. Keep up the good work.
So well done and spoken, another classic episode. Simple but clear and informative. No overpowering music background, kitchy words spoken, etc. What else is needed for those who have ears to listen?
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed it. Cheers!
I'm totally new to the drum world, and this is the first time I've ever heard anything like this. No one ever speaks about how the lug count influences the snare pitch. Not only do I feel like a whole new world has opened up to me, it also lets me know just how much I have yet to learn. Good info!
We're working to shed some light on topics that aren't often spoken about, methods that aren't widely known, and true tricks of the trade that only come from experience. There's lots more to be shared! Help spread the word by sharing this channel with your drummer friends. Cheers!
Coming from the perspective of recording but not playing drums, this is great information. Makes me feel a lot more confident when drummers bring in different/unusual kits. Thank you!
I've been a drummer since 1988, and I learn a lot with each episode. Thanks for providing some great content!
I got into drumming and percussion in general later in life and have learned to build drums. Your instruction of all aspects of snare drums is so valuable.
Finally know how to get the best of my drum. The session on snare beds was awesome. Thanks mucho sir!! You the best...
I moved from a Pearl Export to a Ludwig Black Beauty in the last year and was flummoxed for ages at how to tune the ten lugs and why it would have more lugs in the first place. This has helped my understanding so very much. Thank you
dude thank u, i just started goofin on drums and ur channel has been a huge help! love the vids, rock on
finally someone bringing fresh, accurate, unbiased and high quality content about drum sound. keep it up boys. cheers from Argentina
Thanks so much for your kind words! Please be sure to share the channel with your fellow drummers in Argentina. Cheers!
Another great video. Keep up the good work. I remember hearing that the number of lugs on a snare drum before told you if it was a cheap/student snare drum or a really good neutral but in reality can also mean how rough you want the snare drum to sound. There are times that people want a rough,And that’s where a six lug or snare drum it’s perfect.
Great! Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Asking the important questions. Love this
Thank you for posting great educational videos.
I 100% agree with you that the drums with less lugs can be tuned in lower pitch more easily.
I have a 12 inch tom with 8 lugs per side and a 14 inch floor tom with 10 lugs per side from Ludwig and sometimes they are difficult for low-tune.
such good info, thank you so much for explaining this!
Agree w/ comment below. The tom tuning clinic, turned my cheap 80's Pearl exports into a great sounding drum set. The idea that you want the shell to resonate and not just the heads is so important, and not what I was getting from other sites. Thank you for all the great info.
So often a reviewer of a snare will pass over the number of lugs and concentrate on shell material, rim type and even heads rather than mention the essential tuneability offered by virtue of the lug-count. A concise guide to what may mean you can or can’t simply ‘crank up’ the tension and expect to achieve the phattest sound you desire from the prime drum in your kit. Thanks for sharing.
Agreed! Thanks for watching.
Great video! I knew different lug numbers had to effect the drum someway but never knew how!
A wonderfully thorough discussion of an interesting topic.
Thanks so much, David!
In my snare collection I have a vintage, cheap steel snare that is 6-lugs. It's one of my favorite snares LOL really unusual sound that I have not heard anywhere else.
Nice video! My preference is 8 lugs on a wooden snare and 10 lugs on a metal snare. I have done lots of experimenting over the years.
Makes perfect sense.... 8 lugs gives a warmer, fuller tone as does the wood shell, whereas 10 lugs is a sharper, more precise tone just like the steel shell. Those combinations play well together. I've found that batter head thickness can be a good mitigation factor when things aren't going well between the rim and shell. Just had to use a 12 mil Evans head on an 8 lug, 5 ply (no reinforcement rings snare and the result is quite powerful!!! It all comes down to undemanding the relevant variables and how they impact one another!! Just like shaping a surf board or making modifications to engine components!!!
I have been waiting for someone to answer this question. Thank you so much.
You're welcome! Glad you found it helpful :)
Thank you so much. We absolutely need to be subscribed at your channel. I will go ahead and share it within a couple of Facebook groups. Keep the great content comming our way.
Thanks so much for helping spread the word!
This was incredibly useful info :)
This is my first time in the channel and I already fell in love with it ! 🔥
Welcome! Be sure to share the videos with your drummer friends. Enjoy! -Ben
I love that 6 lug distortion character. Will have to hunt down one of those snares. Thus far I've added distortion with software, but getting it from the source seems way cooler.
Thank you so much for this! You've broaden my understanding of this topic much more! And although I don't have access to these vintage drums I'm starting to grow to want one for myself)))
Amazing channel \m/
So glad to hear it! Keep an eye out for those 6-lug vintage drums as some can be had for a great deal. Thanks for watching! -Ben
I had the same vintage Ludwig pioneer snare drum in that same finish. I loved the tone and warmth of the drum, but a 6 lug snare and its limited tuning range, was something I couldn't get around. But what a beauty of a sound in a medium low tuning. Fat, warm, and crispier than Rice Krispies.
I'm using a 6lug-13inch snare as main one, the tuning can be changed instantly for each song by adjusting the bolt in the front.
It is similar to a guitarist changing the tone by manipulating the volume for me. it's very fun and useful method!
The best drum channel on youtube!!!
Great vid, really enjoyed
Love this video!! Super cool to see how the drum resonates differently and which sound more open and why. I'd love to see you tackle the same concept again but with the lug count on toms. I've never been able to tell myself but I've wondered what makes a 5 lug rack tom sound different than a 6 lug rack tom (for example, Gretsch versus the other major players who use 5 lugs on all rack toms 12 inch and under), and I wonder what the lug count can do to floor toms as well.
Interesting and informative. Always something to learn here!
Glad to hear it! -Ben
Brilliant! As always great stuff guys.
Thanks for the support!
Informative demonstration Cody! Would you be willing to do an episode on tuning a 5 lug Tom? I’m playing a Gretsch renown bop kit and there is definitely a fine line between “proper” tensioning and choking the drum. I’ve gotten pretty decent results but I don’t feel I have a solid understanding yet. Thanks for everything you’ve done so far.
Gawd Dayum that was good!
Keep releasing great content like this. Love it!
Thanks for watching!
this!! Explains to me Why i love 8 lug, and another thing is less mass = lower fundamental pitch more mass = higher pitch so thats also why you have to crank the lower number lugs to get the higher equal note to a 10 lug ( in my initial thought process at least!) i love this guys im a stave snare drum builder for coming up on 2 years and these videos are soooo great in helping me define my sound and help explain why i choose to do the practices i do! keep it up guys!
It's interesting when it comes to more mass on the shell, which can stifle resonance unless you really lay into the drum. When it comes to drumheads, since the mass applied is usually on the lower side of the bell curve, placing mass in the center or using a thicker drumhead equals a lower fundamental pitch because of the frequency of vibration. Some heady physics stuff but it makes all the difference in sound.
The difference in tension applied to each lug on an 8 lug drum vis a 10 lug drum isn't so much about the mass of the hardware but the fact that the overall tension is divided across a different number of points. Less points of pressure means more pressure required at each point. Thanks for geeking out with us!
I have a 6-lug Maxwin by Pearl snare drum from the early 1980s, which I love, It has an internal muffling system that is adjustable, & is a 14" X 5 1/2 " wood shell with a pure white wrap. The only head combination that works for it is the Remo Ambassador Snare & Remo Clear Pinstripe for the batter. When tuned properly & slightly dampened, it produces a hard knocking sound, which is perfect for certain music.
The best channel, thank you very much for the information. 🙏 🇧🇪
A '61 Pioneer is the most open and most interesting sounding snare drum I have ever owned.
When you mention it's like there is a bit of overdrive to the sound, that is exactly it.
Thanks yet again. Great information.
You got it! Thanks for watching. Please be sure to share the video with your drummer friends.
Great info, thanks dudes!
You got it!
I have a '62 Slingerland 6 lug with a Mahogany/poplar/mahogany shell. Its warm and dirty and sounds great and works particularly well for one of my projects.
Ah man, sounds beautiful - Both of Ben's 6-lug snares sound incredible. Gotta find one of my own now!
Yeah I have a 6 lug wfl that's mahogany with maple re rings and it is super dry and warm and sounds so cool!
Great info. and video! A 10-lug snare, it is, especially since my existing two snares are 8-lug. 😆👍🏻🇺🇸
Excellent work, I´ll take the time to watch every damn video. Beauty
Thanks so much!
Great video, thanks for the insight!
The only thing missing from this video would be a comparison between triple flange and die cast on the 6 lug snare, I'm really curious as to how it affects the sound in practice.
Yep, i hear ya, hopefully in the future! It's amazing how many people are starting to experiment with 6 lug snares again, such a special sound! - Cody
Very well done video!
I love your videos so much!
Тhat, sir, is very useful info! Admirations!
Oh my god. What you said about the 5 lug Gretsch drums just hit home soooo hard. I’m not that good at tuning yet, and it’s just been a struggle.
Thank you for the video.
Love the way you guys break drums down to a science and dispel a lot of the woo and elitist nonsense that goes with the instrument.
Can you guys please make a video on how to tie snare rope when installing snares on a vintage drum that requires it? I got a 65’ supra that requires snares that have rope and you have to tie it onto the bottom of the strainer. Love the vids by the way!
some great knowledge there. i had s superdrum 12 lug snare. but sold it. too bright for my liking.
Man aint this channel a gift from the heavens
That’s very kind of you to say! Thanks for the support.
This is excellent. My own local drum shop doesn’t explain things this well.
Glad to have helped! We've got lots more where that came from!
Can you add some overhead shots, or higher angled shots that show us the top of the snares? It helps me to visually see where the lugs are located as you're tuning.
I'd also be interested in your thoughts on the effect of hoops on this. That, and round bearing edges versus sharp.
We plan to do some videos on different hoops as well as different bearing edges in the future.
I have a 12 lug Millennium picolo snare and is very smooth and even when tuning and brings higher pitch more easy
Pioneer is my favorite snare drum.
New comer! but I´m so glad to find this kindo of info.
Welcome! We’ve got lots of topics covered across our 84 episodes so far. Enjoy and be sure to share with your drummer friends! -Ben
Nailed it!!!
Thanks, Josh!
A cool video topic may be a deep dive on re-beveling edges on vintage drums vs as much DIY maintenance one can do to help the drum without taking a router to it. Just a thought.
Interesting idea - So you're thinking in terms of "I have an old drum that isn't working" and going into what all can be done with that drum on your own before you take it to a repair shop to have the actual shell/edge modified?
My first vid on this subject...great way to start. Those two other drums vs a Craviotto is not fair though.
To be clear, this wasn't a shootout but rather a simple comparison of lug count and the affect of having having pressure dispersed across different numbers of points. The quality or price tag of the drum didn't really come into play here.
Great info! I always have wondered why an 8-lug Radio King is more popular in the studio than a 10-lug Super Radio King. What do you think of Slingerland's Two-to-One snare? Just a gimmick?
Does anyone remember Tama's brief experiment with 11-lug snares in the 80s? I think they only made them for one or two years.
Yes, I've the one 11 on top and 10 at the bottom since 1990. A brass 14x6.5. Unfortunately one of the lug came off the shell, and not able to tighten it to the shell. Can't get the lug from Tama anymore. May be I'll do something about it later. Love it, sound good. Have not seen any snare with those lug combination. Good day
I can't really hear much difference in quality between the 10 and the 6 lug drum at all, other than the 6 having just a little more punch (and frankly I prefer it for that), I see what you mean about the more "open" sound. The 8 sounds most different to me (a bit brighter and cleaner), maybe that's just the sound of the Witt. I'm imagining the main difference between the 10 and 6 used would be volume.
Interesting bit about the "distorted" sound of a 6 lug, it'd be great to get a little grisliness from a drum without compression / plugins. Thanks!
They all sound so good in their own way. I Dig drums… and I can see why people often get so many snares. As I’ve told you guys before, I’m new at drumming, but already have so many drums! Ha ha. 🥁📀✨Often I get an old beat up quality brand drum and fix it up… and learn in the process. That way I end up with many nice drums, that may have been thrown away, or filed away… and give them a new life… for less $ than new… Fun stuff…
Have you experimented with having a 10-lug batter and 6-lug snare-side? I think Canopus has a snare like that. Would be interested in your thoughts.
Another great video guys. What are your thoughts on moving heads from one drum to another... Does the head get kind of moulded or shaped to a bearing edge? Will this cause tuning issues on a different drum? What about doing this with snare side heads, I figure this would be a problem since they're so thin? Would love to hear your comments :)
Hey there! The short answer is a big Yes, they definitely get fitted to the first drum they’re on. Having said that, the big variable with moving heads between drums is how highly they’ve been tensioned. I move heads between toms sometimes without any negative consequences but snare heads pretty much stay with the first drum they meet :) sometimes snare wires can slightly conform to a certain drum too, so I don’t move them around much either. Hope that helps!
Very helpful, thanks! Looking forward to your next video. 🙂
How about this topic as the next video? The consequences of moving snare heads from snare to snare
While the Gretsch five lug toms are tricky for beginners, it's such a rewarding feeling to tune them. The effort definitely is worth it for the sound you get.
Man, so true. There really is nothing else like it!
Been my favourite drum company for seven years. It will be for many more.
Very good. I like more lugs.
Hey guys excellent information, really like your channel and the in depth info behind all the topics. I've seen a few vids and I'm kinda hoping you could do a video on how to tune your toms. The plural that is. How do you approach getting all your toms in cooperation with eachother. I usually play with 2 or 3 racktoms and a floor (sizes 10, 12, 13, 14 floor) and like to tune them down progressively. Meaning 10, 12 pretty high for clarity, 13, 14 low for attack and lowend. But it's always kinda hard to match them, because there's always that one tom that just won't cooperate. So how do you go about matching your toms?
Hey there! That's going to be an upcoming video in the next few weeks, stay tuned! (pun intended) - Cody
What a interesting concept that is not taking into consideration much. I'm gonna try out these ideas with my 10 lug and 8 lug drums. Dont hsve a 6 lug one yet
Definitely worth getting your hands on a budget level vintage drum for that specific sound and character. The Ludwig Pioneer and Gretsch Round Badge 4105 can be found for sale pretty regularly.
Sounds Like A Drum ya I just found one for like 250, Super Affordable
I happen to own one of those Ludwig snares and I love it’s fat vintage sound. Unfortunately the snare strainer and the mute inside of it stopped working. I have yet to replace those parts to get it back to a playing condition again.
awesome!
I also find myself tuning in a more circular fashion the more lugs you have. My 60's luddy rack tom only has 6 lugs and it's star tuning or nothing compared to a new BB which really needs a balance between clockwise & star/skip a lug. Also, though at this point I'm not suprised, fuckin A on getting those drums to the same pitch.
Hahahaha, thanks man! :) And yeah, it's so bizarre and fascinating how drums with differing construction or that come from different eras can behave so differently!
New subscriber💕
I love your stuff
Thanks so much for watching, Chip! -Ben
You deserve 1000x more subs
Thanks! We're only about 3 1/2 months in so it's still the "humble beginnings" phase but we're super grateful for all of the interest and support we've seen so far. Help spread the word about the channel to your drummer friends!
My kit has five lug Toms. I do get a bit confused because the star pattern seems hard to do for me on a five lug drum. That probably sounds weird the way I worded it, but the way I tune is I just go all the way around the drum. They sound good, but I feel as though I am going to do damage to my edges and hoops since I’m not using the star pattern. Can you please make a video on how to tune five lug Toms? Thank you very much. Your channel is great!
Hey there! Yeah, the star thing is more confusing with an odd number of lugs. I don't think either of us actually own a 5 lug drum, but perhaps we can do a short video in the future to hone in on this issue. Thanks for bringing it up!
Great stuff man love this I always go with my ear on snares picked up a ddrum vintone aluminum snare have you ever heard it it's a beast ?
Yep! I’ve got one of the Vintone Nickel Over Brass 14x7” snares. It makes a cameo in the April Fools video. As a fun fact- that drum was based off of a nickel over brass snare owned by Brady Blade that he lent to ddrum to model after.
Is it a 8 lug as well ? Well I'm going to sub and be watching all your videos so forgive me if I'm mistaken but are you affiliated with drum magazine you really have taught me a lot and I've only gotten though 2 videos lol but I do love that vintone snare but it's certainly a very loud snare lol
And what's the official title or link of that video ?
Yes, it's an 8-lug. Glad to hear that you're enjoying the series! We're not affiliated with any magazines or drum companies at this time. This is a production of Cadence Independent Media, a social marketing and content creation firm. Here's the link to that April Fools video: czcams.com/video/K1Nt8-qoZ5s/video.html
Hey Cody! Great channel and very interesting content as always!
I own one 8" deep 80's Ludwig Coliseum snare which has 12 lugs each side. Since I'm interested in a smaller metal snare and really love the 14x5 supraphonics and acrolites I was just wondering if it would be much harder to tune a 8 lug acrolite than my 12 lug Coliseum.
Hey there! No, I wouldn't say it'll be harder to tune at all, just different. I go between 6 8 and 10 lug snares often and the main difference between them is more the sound than anything else. Having less nodes of pressure around the head changes the sound and feel of the drum itself but they all tune up pretty much the same :) -Cody
@@SoundsLikeADrum Great! thank you for your quick response!
8 seems good to me. What difference do wood hoops make..?
This might be a stupid question, but what about a 4 lug drum?
I have a cheap kids drum set that I'm upgrading to make a compact gigging kit but the drums have only 4 lugs on each side. 😅
I was planning on just replacing the current lugs and drilling new holes to make them 8 or 6 a side as that's standard and 4 lugs a side is just ridiculous, but after watching this I'm thinking maybe it isn't?
Do you think it would be possible to get a decent sound out of a 4 lug drum or would it be better/easier to tune with more lugs? Any thoughts?
Cool video guys, I must ask. How much does the depth of a drum effect its sound and the difference between a snare that is say 5x14 to a 8x14 or a bass that is 20x20 to a 14x20?
The physical depth of a snare drum has a significant effect on the performance of instrument and the fundamental frequency of the drum. A deeper drum will require more force to get the resonant head moving. In my opinion, the super deep kick drums just don't do it (and can often sound boxy/basketball-like) because you need to move so much air and most people aren't using large enough beaters for it. When it comes to a rock bass drum sound, it's hard to beat 14" depth drums- a 22x14 or 24x14 sounds super fat and punchy.
Sounds Like A Drum Would the same rules for the number lugs on a snare apply to the depth of a snare too? Example: A piccolo snare w/ 6 lugs equals a more chaotic, aggressive and darker sounding snare. Where as a deeper snare w/ more lugs will have a wider, brighter but more controlled sound come out of it?
Also thx for the help w/ the bass drum. I feel more confident on what size I may get in the future. What are your thoughs on shallower high toms but deeper floor toms. Would that sound good together?
What kind of wood is the Witt one and where did you get it? He's not building them anymore last time I checked.
Thank you.
Hey there! This one is Beechwood, one of the last ones made I believe.
Thanks for the precise description of what is happening with drums of various lug configurations. I have a vintage 4.5 Kent white badge from the early 60's that I fixed up with aftermarket vintage hardware. It only has 6 lugs on it and was a pain to tune until I realized that I was thinking in terms of my Supraphonic. Once I abandoned that thinking and played around with the head and tuning schemes, I found that this drum had some really unique properties. I do have to say that it is one of my least played drums, but does have its place in my set up. Thanks for this as always.
Interesting. Hoop height would affect this as well. I suspect this explains why banjos have so many more lugs by comparison.
I once read that 6 lugs wasn’t meant to be cheap but rough in the tone.
So does that mean you can get the 6 and 10 lug to sound lower or higher in pitch respectively than each other? And if you can, can you do it without choking them? Thanks Cody!
Hey! For me, less lugs ends up doing better for low tuning while more can get you higher useable (not choked) sounds. -Cody
so if i need a snare drum for fast-paced music with a lot of blast beats in it and need that drum to cut through with every hit, i'm better off with a ten lug drum cause its more articulate.. am i getting that right?
I’d say there are certainly 8-lug drums out there that can slay that kind of music, but for me I’d probably go for a 10. I’d also be concerned with the shell material and the bearing edges with regards to clarity and articulation for sure, those factors will impact a lot too. For instance, I use my Keplinger snare for that kind of sound and it’s only 8 lugs, but the rest of the variables with that drum really make it great for rock and fast metal stuff. - Cody
Any plans for a video on snares with large air vents?
Not at this time but that’s certainly a possibility in the future. -Ben
thanks sir, they said Pearl Decade Mapple has 6 lug floor and they said owners are having head aches?
Can't speak to that specific instance but, having played a few 6-lug floor toms, it's not that number of lugs alone that's causing this issue.
I’ve been floating around the idea of building a snare with less lugs on the snare side to minimize hardware mass on a side that typically isn’t cranked as much as the batter side. Thoughts?
Makes sense. There are few similar drums out on the market to reference as well. Might even consider different types of hoops.
@@SoundsLikeADrum I recently built a kit with minimal lugs and s-hoops to act kind of like a rigid die cast and it sounds fantastic
That shirt is a banger, mind dropping the deets on where I can grab one?
Thanks! It’s an old Stone Brewing shirt, no idea when it was made though - $5 thrift store find :) -Cody
Cody, do you have any reccommendations on what to do when someone does have a bigger bass drum like a 22" and 10 lugs per head? Since I also experience the claw hooks start to come loose when I tune it too low. I've seen one company use some kind of "lug" that screws into the bass drum hoop so it won't fall out even when at loose tension, but they don't sell them by themselves. Do you know of any other product anyone else makes that I can use or mod? I just want to know if it's worth the trouble, becuase would you be able to tune higher on a drum that has more lugs? If not, should I just redrill the holes for 8 lugs to accommodate for that lug spacing? Or at what lug count will the claws not rattle or fall out anymore at low tuning? Thanks and God Bless!
Hey there! I hear ya - having lugs back out is frustrating. I probably wouldn’t re-drill anything. I haven’t cooked up any specific hacks for this personally but I have a couple of thoughts that I might try out, I just generally don’t tune my batters that low these days. We did experiment with just taking half the tuning rods and claws off the drum and it worked pretty well, effectively making it a 5-lug drum. Worth a try! -Cody
@@SoundsLikeADrum Much appreciated! Thanks!
Were they all the same pitch? 🤔