What We Know Warframe Lore - The Zariman Accident, ARG, Kira, and the Holdfasts
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- čas přidán 10. 06. 2024
- Much of the Zariman backstory and finer details was information included as part of an ARG (alternate reality game) leading up to the release of the update, and much of which is not available in-game or only referenced briefly through dialogue. This video strings together the events leading up to the accident and after a bit more directly and discusses Kira, the fifth, and perhaps most important member of the Holdfasts.
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Princess of Mirrors Video - • Warframe Obscure Lore ...
Princess of Mirrors Transcript - warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Zari...
Zariman ARG Wiki page for more nitty gritty info about the puzzles and process - warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Zari...
Video I used for the Holdfast rank-up cutscenes - • Warframe | The Holdfas... - Hry
![What We Know Warframe Lore - Jade Shadows [SPOILERS]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Xwng73652DI/mqdefault.jpg)
Honestly the zariman story, even taken outsthe context of warframe, was a pretty cool and horrifying colonial ship gone wrong story.
SPOILERS FOR NEW PLAYERS
That seems to be the case for most Warframe players, and I think that's a strength of the game. It's less about the main story and more about telling a series of semi-related stories. As a player, I still don't know wtf is going on with my space mom turning into a claw robot. But I remember the story of Rys and Umbra. I remember "I feel... Tired." And 'They somehow managed to look inside these ugly, broken things... And take away their pain'. It's these little stories about individual situations that really keep us engaged. I felt something when space mom left, but nothing compared to Umbra shaking under the tree, or Rys showing up in my ship to check in on his friend.
Babe wake up new Stallord warframe lore video just dropped!
Saya hadir
YOU BEAT ME TO IT!!!!!
Words cannot express how much I hate these kind of comments
@@crazytwitchy5650 why are you so unhappy?
This story makes me glad tuvul got what was coming to him on lua.
Voruna soloing multiple Angels while giving one of the biggest bastards in the setting his long-feared permadeath... God, I want to see that fight animated someday.
@@sitchreapotere1073it never specified angels, so it probably also included Thrax enemies
"Eaten alive by wolves" How fitting that one of the seven would share a fate with countless primitive humans desperately trying to scrape together an existence in the dark.
30+ minutes of sweet, sweet StallordD lore delivery? This will be very satisfying.
10:10 the Message, the 1,679 bits and the 23x73 size is essentially the in Warframe version of the Arecibo Message, which has those same dimensions and roughly equal message coded within.
Super cool to see the devs do this.
As someone who doesn’t know, what’s that?
@@xenon3990 The Arecibo Message was a message sent into space from the Arecibo Radiotelescope to a faraway star cluster. It is still travelling to this day about 50 years later.
It was written by Frank Drake and Carl Sagan also worked on it. It was a message 23x73 pixels in length and had 1679 bits of information in it. It included information on the elements and molecules that make up DNA, our solar system, the average human height and population from 1974 and the Dish that was used to send the message.
It was more of a symbolic gesture, to show how powerful Arecibo was in sending radio signals, which it used for detecting asteroids, pulsars and even make radio images of other planets like Venus.
@@xenon3990 It's a message send by our civilization to a nearby solar system, containing similar information to the Voyager 1 disk. Since it's radio waves it's expected to have attained several other systems already
@@leobaron9417 thanks for answering. It seems my response didn't pop up for some reason.
I'm convinced DE has a room full of people whose job it is to simply research cool stuff all day and put their findings into giant binders for use later.
The Zariman arc by far is a tragedy, curious past that I love to come back to visit from time to time. I always cherish the NPCs, the home that we the tenno what we used to be albeit part of a selfish orokin request and wanting to keep this memory in check from the void and angels at bay
After seeing the video showcasing the crew's struggle, the orokin's impatience, false promises by the higher ups, and void corruption has culminated in a series events that have led to the Zariman tragedy that has not only led to the tenno's creation but also other unintentional consequences.
I feel like Sentients might have been sent after the Zariman in some degree, the pallax landing craft has cosmetic skins related to exploring tau, which would be redundant if the Sentients had already terraformed the place. Unless Sentients were only tasked with making the solar rail and making life on the planet.
Well neither the colonists nor the Orokin could have known how the Sentients would have terra formed Tau
Is it possible that time capsule is what inspired the designs of the archons? I'm thinking there is a correlation there to the Lotus talking about Archon Amar saying "He was created in the image of ancient records from old Earth, a naive tribute to ecosystems long extinct"
Oh that's right, I guess wolves / dogs were the last surviving mammals in the system during the mass extinction
In the same way, snakes and owls had to be some of the last surviving species in the reptilian / flying oviparous category
Holy cow, as someone obsessed with Sentients, I never made this connection. Nice find!
I swear the lore for Warframe has become so convoluted that even videos like these would need another video to explain THIS video
When the almost incomprehensible meets with the truly incomprehensible, the difference between those entities is vast. It is like seeing a lightning flash, and actually getting struck by lightning.
That, is the difference between Zariman's almost incomprehensible grandeur and the absolute incomprehensibility of the Void and the things within.
I am a simple man. I see a Stallord upload and I LOHK all over the place
I think you have the key events backwards. The Zariman 10-0 was first and then the sentients were sent to Tau after that failed. This order makes more sense as the Orokin would have decided that sending robots wouldn’t lead to the rebellion they experienced with the humans aboard the Zariman. Plus, part of the reason they knew of the sentient rebellion was because the ships they tried sending through the rail to Tau were destroyed.
The Zariman would not have needed to be built if the sentient were already in Tau constructing a solar rail capable of jumping back to the origin system.
More to my point, there could have been decades to centuries between the failed Zariman jump to the time when the sentients attacked. We can see in the Rhino codex entry that the Zariman is barely remembered. Not something that would be quick to happen to a ship the Orokin paraded around the system to instill envy and hope in the masses. The Rhino prime codex shows they were constructing warframes but hadn’t figured out how to control them. This means the sentient were attacking. The only thing we can be reasonably sure of is that there wasn’t much time between the execution of Margulis and the start of the sentient attacks because the reason she was executed was her refusal to destroy the Zariman survivors. Had the sentient attack not started soon after, the Zariman survivors would have been disposed of instead of being kept in a room in a laboratory/prison.
@@BottomBunkArt do we have any info about how long the tenno were kept before being hidden in the reservoir ? Because they would have had to spent quite a lot of years under Orokin custody before the sentient's return if that was the case.
My guess is that the old war happened in the next few years after the Zariman resurfaced, but I think that would imply that the Sentients were already present in Tau for quite a while.
Arguably they didn't need for the Zariman to fail to decide to send Sentients, because before the Void technology was discovered by Albrecht, travel time and radiation made interstellar travel impossible for human beings, hence why they sent machines capable of adapting to it through the cosmos.
I don't know, i do think it's just as possible that the sentients were already there, although it may be that they couldn't or wouldn't make a solar rail, ( -possibly because didn't weren't programmed to do that since they were made to terraform tau not make solar rails- . either that or they were taking too long, only partly done with terraforming or refused to make one after becoming sentient)
the zariman was a colony ship, and the planets would have at least been somewhat changed before they arrived, otherwise you essentially get to tau with no means to live besides the zariman, seeing as we don't see or mention of teraforming technology, that and the fact childeren were on board points to the idea they were expecting to be living there, not simply terraform over there, since there would have been no point sending childeren if they still needed to terraform the planet to live there, since that space could have been used for equipment or more personal like grineer (which are expendable for the orokin) to terraform the planet, and the difficulty of keeping childeren in a terraforming ship.
It's also possible the reason that the zariman wasn't remembered because it was covered up by the orokin. in The ember prime codex entry, officer kaleen points out that there weren't supposed to be childeren on board, which means that the exact nature of the zariman was not generally known to the public or even militairy officers. this can explain why the rhino codex the narrator doesn't know what they were, since the tenno were considered something secret, and after the zariman reappeared the orokin did their best to cover up it's existence to disguise their failures. it's possible why the narrator the didn't know much about the zariman for the reason that it was a secret project and only knew because he worked for the orokin.
Although that's just my interpetation
Edit: nevermind the "not programmed to make that", comment, i missed the part in the orginal crewman synthesis where that was stated, my bad.
The robots that would become sentients were sent far ahead of the Zariman, as the Zariman colonists wouldn't be terraforming their own planet. The expectation was that the sentients would have created a suitable environment for them to colonize.
i did find another piece of evidence suggesting the sentients were send first, in duviri there are tablets has the questions which are made for the childeren on the zariman. well the last couple are corrupted by the man in the wall, most of them are orokin designed questions.
two of them suggests that the sentients are already there. the first states:
"What will be the primary challenge of colonizing Tau?" the correct answer is "Remaining industrious in the midst of abundance" which implies that the tau was already terraformed due to having abundance, since the other wrong anwser being "Unknown native hazards of the environment", and seeing that it was wrong, it seems that there weren't hostile treats expected there, making it likely to be terraformed by the sentients already.
the second one states
"Who is constructing the Extrasolar Rail between Pluto and Tau?" with the anwser being
"An elite group of loyal servants of the Seven" which seems a cover up for the sentient project. to be fair, this could also refer to the zariman adults, but seeing that it doesn't mention the zariman, despite being made for the zariman, it's seems more likely to refer to the sentients.
Great vid as usual, it's a bit of a shame that Warframe's pre old war timeline is so confusing, case in point, the whole Sentient vs Zariman who was first conundrum since it's 100% up for interpretation:
1 - If the Zariman was the second colonization project, then that assumes the Archimedean executed in the beginning of the Crewman Imprint WAS NOT Margulis. The archive states that this person was a SHE and the greatest geneticist in the Empire, and we know, thanks to Silvana's lines during the Silver Grove, that she was a huge admirer of Margulis and also that Silvana was the best infestation biologist alive at the time, so that admiration stemming from the fact that Margulis was a geneticist which inspired Silvana to become a Biologist, isn't far fetched, which leads us to the very plausible assumption that the "greatest scholar of genetics who ever lived" according to the Crewman Imprint, was in fact, Margulis herself.
2 - If we assume 1 to be correct, then, Margulis' apostasy of protecting the Tenno against the desires of the 7, which was the reason for her execution, took place BEFORE the Sentients were even made, hence the possibility of the Zariman being the first colonization project with the Sentients being second.
3 - Another thing to note is the Zariman itself, we know the Orokin found a Zariman, and then proceeded to delete everything from it, every record, every clue, every thing that could point to their failure, only keeping the children which would eventually become the Tenno. We don't know what happened to that Zariman, either the Orokin dismantled it, hid it or sent it back into the void, there's an old Codex entry that even calls it ¨the ship that never returned", so that's another possibility. Be it either of these 4 options, it could very well be that the Zariman we find is an altogether different one, it could be the Drifer's Zariman suffused with Conceptual Embodiments derived from the memories of both crews the Drifter's and the Tenno's, or something entirely separate. The Zariman from our timeline is said to have been a Warship, then this Zariman is said to be a Colony Ship. Unreliable narrators, blending timelines and even the possibility of Conceptual Embodiments transforming/inhabiting the thing, make it very difficult to ascertain what/when happened. And then there's Gyre... she's a doozy lore wise too, my goodness.
Also, it feels a bit off that the Orokin, so against AI as they were and knowing the risks the Proto Sentients posed, would sign off on a colonization effort lead by artificial constructs before trying a good ol' flesh an' blood expedition, this a personal interpretation of mine, but it seems more fitting for the Orokin to first try and colonize Tau using man power, and only then, when at desperation's door, trying the machine powered approach.
Sry for the wall of text but I find Warframe's lore fascinating and really fun to put together, however, ambiguities like these, although they help to create an aura of mystique around everything, it also confuses ppl to the umpteenth degree :D
Yeah, it's a bit murky. I will say that the Orokin were explicitly NOT against using Cephalons since they saw Cephalons as transfers of the mind and not true AI. Not that it negates your reasoning, just thought I'd "well akshually" that tidbit, haha
@@StallordD Oh you're 100% on the money there, another thing to note is the Zariman itself, we know the Orokin found a Zariman, and then proceeded to delete everything from it, every record, every clue, every thing that could point to their failure, only keeping the children which would eventually become the Tenno. We don't know what happened to that Zariman, either the Orokin dismantled it, hid it or sent it back into the void, there's an old Codex entry that even calls it ¨the ship that never returned", so that's another possibility. Be it either of these 4 options, it could very well be that the Zariman we find is an altogether different one, it could be the Drifer's Zariman suffused with Conceptual Embodiments derived from the memories of both crews the Drifter's and the Tenno's, or something entirely separate. The Zariman from our timeline is said to have been a Warship, then this Zariman is said to be a Colony Ship. Unreliable narrators, blending timelines and even the possibility of Conceptual Embodiments transforming/inhabiting the thing, make it very difficult to ascertain what/when happened. And then there's Gyre... she's a doozy lore wise too, my goodness. (this I edited into my initial comment but wanted to mention it here since you probably won't read that wall o' text again).
Also wanted to add man, thank you, you were my inspiration when starting down the path of the lore and story of Warframe, which then lead me to start making Warframe videos.
@@DeuceTGI have to agree with you on the point that the Zariman being first is the more logical order of events, as I said in my own comment. However, I do have to disagree with you on the point of Margulis and the executed Archimedean. A geneticist is not the same thing as a biologist, and given that the Archimedean aboard the Zariman was afraid of being executed should she fail, I’d say the execution of an Archimedean was a common enough occurrence that the unnamed one in the simaris log could just have been some random Archimedean.
@@BottomBunkArt it could've, yes, but, Biology and Genetics are closely related sciences, to such a degree that you extensively study the other when you study either of the two
I do agreee that "Zariman first, then Sentients as a last resort" feels more likely, but personally I don't think that Margulis is the Archimedean executed in the synthesis entry.
Ballas feels more like the type to throw a private tantrum first, with the carefully orchestrated manipulations following a good while later; instead of mere minutes after her death.
I could never take the premise of scarcity being the driving force for the Orokin seriously. They have such incredibly technology and a whole system of planets to use. We barely see any traces of civilization anywhere, it's not like everything was mined out and destroyed. Even if they tried, it's close to impossible to exhaust resources like ores and basic elements in solar system, and there's no mega projects of any sort that would indicate the need for some absurd amount of resources.
It's a modern notion, something we worry about, barely being able to escape the gravity of our own planet.
Hell yeah more StallorD lore. Been waiting for another one of these.
You have no idea how much I absolutely love these lore videos you put out, I hope you continue to produce amazing stuff like this. The community is better for what you do here!
Thank you! Though it seems like my videos are not resonating as much as they used to. I'm not sure if it's due to waning interest in my pretty bland style, Warframe lore in general, or the large amount of additional sources for Warframe lore which are much better in terms of output and quality (probably a combination of all those factors!) but it's definitely looking like I might as well just focus on what I'm interested in rather than what I've been doing the last decade (which still shocks me to think it's been that long!)
just like the old times, thanks, stallord
StallordD is the most underrated lore channel
Warframe lore would not be as interesting if it weren't for your amazing interpretations and perfect narration. You are humble and great as the source material!
New video covering the lore of my favorite game gets me through the work day
Loved this man! You have a good grasp of all the small details, I love it.
An amazing video. Thank you so much for putting it together!
You’re amazing man, idk how long it took to gather this info but we really appreciate it
Your videos are still awesome, hope you keep them up!
Thank you! I'm not planning on stopping videos, but truth be told I might be pivoting in what my content is since A: There are lots of other WF lore content creators with better production and output frequency so I don't feel like my stuff is filling a hole in WF content, and B: I want to start actually trying to build an audience for things I've created, since making such niche content is not really going to amount to anything in the long term.
I won't be STOPPING Warframe lore videos, but I won't be trying to get blood from a stone if I don't feel the drive, and I'm going to make what interests me. I'm bracing myself for a large loss of subscribers and possibly getting screwed by the algorithm, but oh well!
Excellent as usual and an appropriate company for my late breakfast. Thank you again for putting the effort into making these!
My all-time favorite channel to listen to Warframe Lore. Thank you for making more.
Thank you for piecing together the story of he Zariman! It is wonderful to hear the story told in your voice!
how did i miss this! amazing as always
omg i want more !! this was so good and so well done and just incredible , thank you for making these videos they are true masterpieces to me i really love them , please do more i really can't wait for the next one
I thought i knew most of the warframe lore, but after watching this video im delighted to find even more details
thank you
god i love this videos man keep up the amazing work i love every second of it
Good stuff. As usual
Awsome as always
I really enjoy your videos, the visuals are interesting and your writing (and voice) are a joy to listen to. I read you got other plans and just wanna say if you enjoy your next content direction, I'll be there to watch/engage.
Thank you! It won't be immediate, I'm planning to start with original stuff still related to Warframe, and if people like my writing or presentation for those, I'll transition into my first (of hopefully many!) original worlds I have in mind.
Always happy to witness your craft, your storytelling, hope you’re doing good, my good sir
Thank you! Doing my best to keep going day by day!
Omg thank you!!!
I love your work, and your person
Before you, I really, really never 'got' warframe lore. I thought a lot of it was complete nonsense. I thought the New War was cool until it got into Narmer stuff, and then this weird statue guy shows up and 'does nothing'. I was ignorant, and foolish.
I didn't get the Zariman stuff beyond what surface-level story I could grasp. We made a deal 'or something' and the Zariman was where the Tenno were made. I didn't get Kira. I didn't get the Holdfasts.
You make it all digestible. And though the timeline stuff is still really...confusing to me, you make it far more simple to understand. I may not truly understand the 'song', but I get that the Holdfasts rely on us simply being here, because we are Void too.
Thank you for all this lore, Stallord. I hope the coming Jade Shadows lore feeds you well.
If you're interested in a further dive into the Narmer thing, look up "WARFRAME: The New War | Ancient Egyptian Philosophy | Philosophy of Games" on a Wordpress blog called SocraTetris. Even though I hardly ever read anything longform due to ADHD, I read through that whole thing, it was so interesting.
Prolly a weird comment I boosted the base volume a bit for the video and your voice def sounds better imo, was much easier to listen and follow from start to finish!
I think that the Zariman was sent in after the Sentients, after all it wouldn't make sense to send in colonist to a planet that is unprepared for their arrival. Not to mention the order of events stated by Ballas in "The Sacrifice" quest. The Tenno were mentioned last, which leads to to believe the the Zariman returned during the the middle of the "Old War".If not, why weren't the children already dead by the time of the Sentients return, as the Orokin are scared of any threat to their own power.
They could make a whole System Shock style game about the Zariman incident. They already have lots of audiolongs.
HE'S ALIVE!!!!
Additional Stuff that we know or did speculate from the quest and the ARG :
- Kira (or Zari as we surnamed her during the ARG) might be the Tenno’s mother. We can’t know for certain, but her tomb holds a photograph of a tenno and their parents. That picture changes clothing colour when you do, possibly indicating those are you and your parents, and due to its other location, linking you to Kira
- As said in the video, the Tau system might located in the Cetus constellation. More indications of that is that the star in the constellation called Tau Ceti holds one if not the closest promising exoplanet for terraformation and sustainable life
- The reason the holdfasts are no longer in danger of the choir’s embrace since the return of the Tenno is that while they survived and lived through the pure lingering void energy after their deaths, they now do through the curated and purified void energy of the Tenno, ensuring they cannot be corrupted by the great indifference anymore
They actually changed the portrait to her Shawzin because people were confused on that first point (myself included). It was just meant to be a general memorial to the fallen, but then there was confusion about Kira being the Tenno's mother, so they have since made it clear that wasn't the intent.
Fuckin Tuvol. From what I've seen of him I would not be surprised to learn he was singlehandedly responsible for the fall of the Orokin Empire. I have to wonder if all the apples were so rotten or if he was just that bad of an influence.
i did find another piece of evidence suggesting the sentients were send first, in duviri there are tablets has the questions which are made for the childeren on the zariman. well the last couple are corrupted by the man in the wall, most of them are orokin designed questions.
two of them suggests that the sentients are already there. the first states:
"What will be the primary challenge of colonizing Tau?" the correct answer is "Remaining industrious in the midst of abundance" which implies that the tau was already terraformed due to having abundance, since the other wrong anwser being "Unknown native hazards of the environment", and seeing that it was wrong, it seems that there weren't hostile treats expected there. making it likely to be terraformed by the sentients already
the second one states
"Who is constructing the Extrasolar Rail between Pluto and Tau?" with the anwser being
"An elite group of loyal servants of the Seven" which seems a cover up for the sentient project. to be fair, this could also refer to the zariman adults, but seeing that it doesn't mention the zariman, despite being made for the zariman, it's seems more likely to refer to the sentients.
THIS IS NOT CHRISTMASS, IS THIS REALL????????? STARLORD UPLOADING THE MISSING INFORMATION???
I'm still stuck on the "Kuva can't be void technology" hiccup that no one but me seems to have noticed: it predates void access.
Albrecht refused to take the kuva again after meeting Wally, fearing that he might not be the real Albrecht. Albrecht met Wally only once (pre-current events at least), which was during his first "successful" Void voyage, with the shattered bell. That incident was the first time the Void did anything at all, and was the beginning of void technology, now that it could actually do things. Ergo, kuva and the Continuity ritual predate any Void access or void tech.
Yes, kuva reacts to the Void, it interacts with the Void and void tech in important ways... but it had been an established part of Orokin society since before Albrecht entered the bell that fateful day.
That's a bit of still-canon lore that no one but me seems to have paid attention to.
Hell yeah we’re eating good tonight!!
it's been 85 years... 😔
Based rell as always
❤❤❤
I don't think that Kira is the same as "Angel", the wife of The Husband. There's really nothing that ties them together, and during the ARG Kira says that she came up with the term Void Angels, "Just my way of reminding myself what they used to be". It doesn't make much sense to me that she would call them by her own nickname.
Volume= 100%
Kira? Yamato?
Jesus Yamato?
Freedom?
All this makes me wonder on one little fact in particular. If the albrict membrane is the wall pr say. What does that make the rift that limbo discovered? Did he discover it or did albrict? Did he rediscover it? Or did he just find the way to manipulate it to his needs?
The Rift is a sort of half space between worlds, whereas the Membrane seems to almost be a sort of reality correcting shield that forms across big catastrophic tears in dimensions. A good metaphor would be like a solid surface. The membrane is a door (it can be opened, broken, etc.) and you can stand on the extremely small door-frame if you wanted, but the Rift is like if you kicked through a solid wall to get your foot through and were "technically" both inside and outside at once. Then add in the fact that the house is alive and wants to NOT have a hole kicked through it so it actively tries to correct and close itself, and we get why Limbo managed to get absolutely wrecked.
@@StallordD When you put it like that its kind of reflected in his kit as well. (Cataclysm shrinking n all weather that's intentional one cant say.)
But yeah i can kind of see that analogy of that. Limbo essentially playing naughty with the superpositional properties of the void and time in it, using it to superposition himself. thus as as a logical consequence actually creating a "rift"
In other words his math points to nowhere because there is nothing there, but put superposition into the mix now the equation isen't just Void or dust anymore it is void+dust and bam! A somewhere has just been created with properties from both.
@@StallordD PS thanks for your reply btw its greatly appreciated!
real
Do u think we're gonna see tau system in Warframe or more likely in some kind of sequel?
Originally, WAY back when, the devs were strongly hinting we would go to Tau one day, but I think narrative direction changed and they got kinda tired of the Sentient storyline so they tied it up in the New War and are moving onto new plots. I believe they have since kinda indicated that we won't be going to Tau anytime soon, if at all.
i sure wish they could at all see anything... understand anything...
Ghaira??? Gyre is pronnounced Djiire, as in gyroscope... lol
LOL! Some folks really have a hard time trying to figure out if the "G" is hard or soft. What's funny is if you talk to Quinn while operating Gyre he'll mention "Gyra" and pronounce it such that it points directly to how to pronounce "Gyre". Unless most players didn't have this interaction with Quinn...? I know Gyre wasn't popular at release, especially when they fixed that unintended bug.
They were animals by then so we hunted.
Wait guy-ra not gy-er? Interesting for pronouncing gyre.
Gyra was the dancer, Gyre is the Warframe based on her.
@@StallordD OHHHHHHHHHH I SEE NOW
How are you getting only 900 likes with 10k views????
Thanks for making these videos, really wished these were lore quests and not grind island lore unlocks that leave you burned out.
Quite frankly i stopped playing warframe thanks to maxing out cetus and fortuna.
im not even going to try and finish entrait, and not even going play zariman and duvuri.
Ill probably play 1999 and that would be it, warframe isnt as fun as it used to be, and no way in hell i'm going to bang my head against the grindwall just to get useless gear that gets nerfed 2 days later and overpriced cosmetics.
First
Gyre is pronounced jai-er not guy-ar
The Warframe lore is really really good but should be delivered better. I mean, quest are good but most of the lore is scattered in recordings.
I think that's the point to keep us guessing and for us to come up with our own ideas about it; cuz when it comes down to multiverse Theories it can go either way