Not a lot of drivers ( especially the new ones and the very old as well... ) know how these safety systems do actually work and how to adapt when they do work...this video will be a very good example on how to show to a lot of learner drivers and to those who hold a full licence how useful/helpful all these different system are. Good on Fifth Gear for showing it.
Aww.. ESP would have saved me a couple of weeks ago. It was raining fairly heavily, I was doing about 50mph and then suddenly had to make a sharp left turn to avoid a collision. The rear wheels skidded out, I controlled it with some opposite lock but then I ended up sliding in the other direction (like tiff in this video) before coming to a stop at the other side of the road. Fortunately I didn't hit anything but if my car had ESP I wouldn't have ended up in the slide in the first place!
my good friend has a '10 Audi A4. We always test to see what it can do in the snow. We live where there are a lot of hills than can trip on the TC/ESP. The Quattro actually gets you up the hill faster with the ESP off. The ESP is useful on highways though where there are a lot of other cars. My verdict... ESP is helpful - but Quattro sometimes negates it (the ESP hardy ever comes on). Some vehicles though ABSOLUTELY need it the vast majority of the time.
Fifth Gear is not always a motorheads first choice. Like me and my mates for example, I'm a automotive designer and my mates are car enthusiasts or car collectors. Their knowledge plus mine of the automotive industry can fill a dictionary. But we still prefer Top Gear. It's as informative as it's funny. A well balanced show. That is why a quarter of a BILLION people watch it.
With ESP, most systems use the same brake, throttle & wheel speed sensors as ABS & TCS but adds steering angle, g-force, etc. If u brake & turn on ice and start to skid, ESP senses the rear wheels are going faster than the front & the steering angle is 30 deg. it can apply more brake to the rear while applying the right amt of brake to each front wheel until the car starts turning. A good ESP system does this almost instantly so it feels undramatic and natural
@Grifkylian - you are correct... as a matter of fact car manuals tell you that in deep snow you should disengage it because you need to spin the tires to get out.
Olá Golden, bom vídeo, nos mostra como é importante o sistema ESP nos carros e nos caminhões, parabéns !!! Hello Golden, good video, shows us how important the ESP in cars and trucks, congratulations!
"drive by wire" (or in other words, you control the computer and the computer controls the car) is the way to go, just as it happened with planes, it will happen with cars. And it may not win the laws of physics, but it can harness them ten times better than we can, so it is much safer.
the entire point of abs was on large trucks to keep steering control in emergency steering situations. beetlebattle8 is right, it also reduces brakeing distance by keeping traction... if you dont belive, try this, get into a car equiped with abs, pull the abs fuse and try to steer around something under full brake froce, then replace he fuse and do the same thing again, without abs you just keep sliding forward, with abs you can steer around whatever you are trying to miss.
I think ESP, ABS & TCS are basically doing the same stuff, manufacurers team up with top gear to fool people you know! but generally i like the entertainment aspect of the test drive Jeremy! tanx alot mate!
the benifits of ESP is that it can control the brakes on four wheels individually. when in a slide, ESP applies brakes on individual wheel to bring the car under control.
explanation starts at 8:40. ESP is ABS & TCS with more functionality. I assume you know how ABS works. ABS & TCS use wheel speed sensors to detects when the wheels arent spinning the right speed and apply the brakes gently, pulse them or reduce engine power if needed. in a fwd car for ex., if the front wheels spin faster than the rear, TCS will reduce engine power until you regain traction. In the TCS computer, it does what it can to make all 4 wheels go the same speed.
@ardvark84 keeping the revs of the engine constant and feathering the clutch allows you to change the power to driven wheels more easily, that is the way to get through that kind of thing, especially if you`re towing. cuts the crap out of the clutch though
@Karjis it doesn't burn the clutch on snow and ice. and it depends on the vehicle. With a truck or a diesel in Northern Ontario, you can easily start in a higher gear without ridding the clutch. PS. its -20 to -30C here from December to march
its just for fun you know... i usually turn off TC when i practice on ice, so when i got into a real situation, i am at least a little prepared. this preparation and TC normaly on already saved my day couple of time
You missed the whole point. He wants to show how an unexperienced driver would perform with no ABS. The natural instinct is to keep the brake pedal down and most drivers don't know or are to scared to do the press-release-press-release manouver. This film is not about the driver ability, it's about how much today's electronic systems can help the casual driver and save his/her life.
I'll tell ya, I had traction control on my old Chevy cavalier and it works. Going up an icy road in my cavalier with traction control on was no problem. Going up an icy hill in my no traction control having toyota which was decades older, not happening. Traction control is great.
In certain situations (loose surfaces, such as what wyrazowfkp mentioned,) letting the wheels dig into the surface can reduce braking distance, and with conventional ABS, that's impossible. I will note that VW has developing something called "ABS Plus," which can detect a loose surface and allow the brakes to lock, if that is the desired behavior, however.
on snow, ice or wet leaves, gravel, holes in asphalt it does not reduce breaking distance - the wheels keep rollin as they can get no traction at all - see the Golf V test - on ice 255 meters w/o ABS and 404 meters with ABS... from 80 kmh (50 mph) 53m on snow/64m with ABS...
@ach2404 I think the reason he does not steer as accurate the first time has to do with the fact that the car had more angle in the skid due to ESP being turned off, which in turn necessitates a larger steering angle. With ESP enabled the angle was much less, so less steering correction was needed. Also, these days a large range of normal consumer cars have ESP as standard equipment in stead of optional, so advertising it is not really necessary anymore. My opinion, others may disagree with it.
First time I hear Tiff saying anything positive about ESP... I really like it as long as you can TURN IT OFF COMPLETELY when you want to (have some fun) :)
As a company Audi existed before VW, but under the Auto Union banner. VW came about later. It's the same as Nissan, which most people remember as "Datsun". Same company but with a different name for legal reasons.
The irony off all this is while cars are becoming more safer, drivers on the other hand are becoming less aware on the road and more dependent on the cars safety features to do the work for them.
@JuanPapaNicolao naah not really because they make you go slower. They won't let you go right on the edge of control because bad drivers won't be able to handle it. But if you are a bad driver (depending on how hard the car is to drive fast) they can make you go faster, but for a professional it is better to avoid it for fast laps. Exept that it can preserve the tyres for longer races.
it may feel like that a little sometimes as the wheels will lock up but in a controlled fashion to avoid excessive over or understeer and so keep control of the vehicle
@crabsallover esp not esc. it's a "elektronisches stabilitäts programm" or in english electronic stability program. and ABS is a "anti-blockier-system" or engl. antilock braking system.
oooh! i have a X-type 3L 4-wheel drive, never got the chans to test it on snow and ice yet but if a 2L frontwheel driven version can do that good it looks promesing!
I've got a 16 year old jeep with no traction control BS or anything like that. $800 for studded winter tires and some yearly practice with various techniques and I'm good to go. You can have all that fancy shit.
Not sure a snow covered icy lake is the best. There’s nothing like being on a combination of black ice and sudden traction(pavement) to wake you up while driving in winter
Wait until blind side detection becomes common in all cars. People will start to not to even bother looking in their side mirrors anymore to change lanes.
ESP has screwed me over twice. going around wet roundabout start to slide poop self opposite lock give gas easy as that but no esp wants the rear wheels to face the front set and causes me to narrowly miss the round about because i had to straiten up
Trust me, that hill is designed to make you fail without traction control. You can not under any circumstances bar having a 500 yard run up make it up there without traction control.
that would be good i have the abs in my truck turned off because the it will not let the brakes lock in slippery conditions. the truck will just continue a slow roll if you are going down hill
Of course you cant doit in the UK, but rest of east Europe countries are using Winter tires as we do, and im not worry to drive 60mph on the motorway. But not in here as it was about 2 weeks ago. On the summer tires as are in here. Ofcourse drivers doesn't need them as we do.
@thepreme123 even rally drivers can't do that slalom with a speed of 70mph. if you ever watched rally you will also see that there are corners - a short strait pease of street and than the next corner. but if you in your car have to change the lane because of an animal and than change right back because of an other car on the other lane you can't keep you car from oversteer. thats why esp, that can keep your car from oversteer by brakng one wheel at a time.
I have to say, It looks like tiff was trying to lose it when the cars esp and TC was turned off. he was far more gentle and smooth when the ESP as on. obviously ESP would help even if he was tryingto lose it with ESP on but it seems like an unfair test
@Dermo1985 there are some idiots who do that. i live in arjeplog myself and some persons aren't afraid of going 120km/h on the icy roads with lots of raindeers and mooses next to the road.
I could have used ESP today. I spun out on a wet/oily/dusty roundabout. It wouldn't even respond to my corrections. Fortunately, noone was around and it just stopped on the grass.
Agreed Anyone who can actually compare equally would see a Lexus is better than a Mercedes. Like LS600H being better than an S600 in any way. Luxury, performance, electronics, safety... anything
the hill part was rigged. with trac cntrl on he had a running start. he went into it at like 20mph. traction or no traction control, youre not getting uphill on ice from a dead start
@AdmiralGilgamesh yeah right, have you ever driven on a track like that? I bet you haven't but if you want to come here to Arjeplog and we will se who will win.
ok. All cars should be fitted with ESP, fair enough. Sports cars, on the other end, should have a button to disable it. It makes the car understeer a lot, and sometimes very unexpectedly under controlled situations I juste hope all this stuff won't serve as an excuse for car manufacturers to make bad chassis
well even todays abs systems can't stop the car as good as car without abs on ice and snow. braking distance is almost 10m more, and you can fit few small cars in that cap. and the to be able to controll your car because not locking is useles on ice or snow.. you dont have the grip still to do anything. TC otherhand is good but only thing is that it can takes away too much power when you are in deep snow and there is not enough revs and engine dies. so you cant get anywhere still.
yes i know when it coms to luxury i agree there number one including lexus...but those european brands are known for so many trouble spots now days...for example my buddies a4..is a lemon.
Looking at the steering inputs for non-ESP and ESP scenarios it looks like non-ESP run was deliberately goofed up. That being said, ESP is probaby one of the best features a car can have when it comes to driving in adverse conditions.
ESP makes people push cars way way way past their limits, because they think they have an electronic safety net that will save them every time. Also a few cars i've been in driven fitted with ESP, with it turned off are running awful awful suspension. The only thing that makes the car handle properly, even at street speeds, is the ESP.
I saw this video when it first came out, I FINALLY was able to afford a new enough car with ESP this past year! So glad.
Not a lot of drivers ( especially the new ones and the very old as well... ) know how these safety systems do actually work and how to adapt when they do work...this video will be a very good example on how to show to a lot of learner drivers and to those who hold a full licence how useful/helpful all these different system are. Good on Fifth Gear for showing it.
Aww.. ESP would have saved me a couple of weeks ago.
It was raining fairly heavily, I was doing about 50mph and then suddenly had to make a sharp left turn to avoid a collision. The rear wheels skidded out, I controlled it with some opposite lock but then I ended up sliding in the other direction (like tiff in this video) before coming to a stop at the other side of the road. Fortunately I didn't hit anything but if my car had ESP I wouldn't have ended up in the slide in the first place!
so they had to put Top Gear in the title to suck people into watching this video, Fifth Gear will always be second to the boys (Top Gear)
We all should THANK Bosch. We are still alive driving cars is because of this company.
THANK YOU BOSCH!!!!!
my good friend has a '10 Audi A4. We always test to see what it can do in the snow. We live where there are a lot of hills than can trip on the TC/ESP. The Quattro actually gets you up the hill faster with the ESP off. The ESP is useful on highways though where there are a lot of other cars. My verdict... ESP is helpful - but Quattro sometimes negates it (the ESP hardy ever comes on). Some vehicles though ABSOLUTELY need it the vast majority of the time.
no one can compete with Richard, Jeremy and James! Top Gear 4ever!
Fifth Gear is not always a motorheads first choice. Like me and my mates for example, I'm a automotive designer and my mates are car enthusiasts or car collectors. Their knowledge plus mine of the automotive industry can fill a dictionary. But we still prefer Top Gear. It's as informative as it's funny. A well balanced show. That is why a quarter of a BILLION people watch it.
With ESP, most systems use the same brake, throttle & wheel speed sensors as ABS & TCS but adds steering angle, g-force, etc. If u brake & turn on ice and start to skid, ESP senses the rear wheels are going faster than the front & the steering angle is 30 deg. it can apply more brake to the rear while applying the right amt of brake to each front wheel until the car starts turning. A good ESP system does this almost instantly so it feels undramatic and natural
fantastic vid. Having a car that has ABS, TC and ESP its nice to have a better understanding of the workings of the systems.
i love ESP has saved me a few times on the ice !
@Grifkylian - you are correct... as a matter of fact car manuals tell you that in deep snow you should disengage it because you need to spin the tires to get out.
It doesn't matter if its a top gear or fifth gear,
This video is great.
THANKS
ESP, EBD and ABS are live saving features. Every car on public roads should be equipped with them.
this is from the first series of fifth gear!
When they first started!
It's amazing how advanced DSC is, my mom's E38 740il is a tank in the snow, you'd never know it's RWD.
Tiff is an extraordinary and very respected driver
Olá Golden, bom vídeo, nos mostra como é importante o sistema ESP nos carros e nos caminhões, parabéns !!!
Hello Golden, good video, shows us how important the ESP in cars and trucks, congratulations!
"drive by wire" (or in other words, you control the computer and the computer controls the car) is the way to go, just as it happened with planes, it will happen with cars. And it may not win the laws of physics, but it can harness them ten times better than we can, so it is much safer.
the entire point of abs was on large trucks to keep steering control in emergency steering situations. beetlebattle8 is right, it also reduces brakeing distance by keeping traction...
if you dont belive, try this, get into a car equiped with abs, pull the abs fuse and try to steer around something under full brake froce, then replace he fuse and do the same thing again, without abs you just keep sliding forward, with abs you can steer around whatever you are trying to miss.
That was awesome... you hardly need a driver!!
Ok fine you do but ESP seems really nice
I think ESP, ABS & TCS are basically doing the same stuff, manufacurers team up with top gear to fool people you know! but generally i like the entertainment aspect of the test drive Jeremy! tanx alot mate!
the benifits of ESP is that it can control the brakes on four wheels individually. when in a slide, ESP applies brakes on individual wheel to bring the car under control.
Great explanation of differences between ABS, TC and ESC (3 letters to save your life!)
yes
it will prevent under and oversteer in conditions where the control of the vehicle would be otherwise compromised
Very informative video, thanks for uploading
explanation starts at 8:40. ESP is ABS & TCS with more functionality. I assume you know how ABS works. ABS & TCS use wheel speed sensors to detects when the wheels arent spinning the right speed and apply the brakes gently, pulse them or reduce engine power if needed. in a fwd car for ex., if the front wheels spin faster than the rear, TCS will reduce engine power until you regain traction. In the TCS computer, it does what it can to make all 4 wheels go the same speed.
@ardvark84 keeping the revs of the engine constant and feathering the clutch allows you to change the power to driven wheels more easily, that is the way to get through that kind of thing, especially if you`re towing. cuts the crap out of the clutch though
@Karjis it doesn't burn the clutch on snow and ice. and it depends on the vehicle. With a truck or a diesel in Northern Ontario, you can easily start in a higher gear without ridding the clutch. PS. its -20 to -30C here from December to march
its just for fun you know... i usually turn off TC when i practice on ice, so when i got into a real situation, i am at least a little prepared. this preparation and TC normaly on already saved my day couple of time
You missed the whole point.
He wants to show how an unexperienced driver would perform with no ABS. The natural instinct is to keep the brake pedal down and most drivers don't know or are to scared to do the press-release-press-release manouver.
This film is not about the driver ability, it's about how much today's electronic systems can help the casual driver and save his/her life.
Tiff Needell (and Vicky Butler Hendrson) worked for the old Top Gear!
I'll tell ya, I had traction control on my old Chevy cavalier and it works. Going up an icy road in my cavalier with traction control on was no problem. Going up an icy hill in my no traction control having toyota which was decades older, not happening. Traction control is great.
In certain situations (loose surfaces, such as what wyrazowfkp mentioned,) letting the wheels dig into the surface can reduce braking distance, and with conventional ABS, that's impossible. I will note that VW has developing something called "ABS Plus," which can detect a loose surface and allow the brakes to lock, if that is the desired behavior, however.
One of the best inventions ever!!!
on snow, ice or wet leaves, gravel, holes in asphalt it does not reduce breaking distance - the wheels keep rollin as they can get no traction at all - see the Golf V test - on ice 255 meters w/o ABS and 404 meters with ABS... from 80 kmh (50 mph) 53m on snow/64m with ABS...
@ach2404 I think the reason he does not steer as accurate the first time has to do with the fact that the car had more angle in the skid due to ESP being turned off, which in turn necessitates a larger steering angle. With ESP enabled the angle was much less, so less steering correction was needed. Also, these days a large range of normal consumer cars have ESP as standard equipment in stead of optional, so advertising it is not really necessary anymore. My opinion, others may disagree with it.
First time I hear Tiff saying anything positive about ESP... I really like it as long as you can TURN IT OFF COMPLETELY when you want to (have some fun) :)
I have Renault Laguna 2006 and it has ESP 8.0 So it's really good. Car has perfect traction !!!
As a company Audi existed before VW, but under the Auto Union banner. VW came about later. It's the same as Nissan, which most people remember as "Datsun". Same company but with a different name for legal reasons.
The irony off all this is while cars are becoming more safer, drivers on the other hand are becoming less aware on the road and more dependent on the cars safety features to do the work for them.
@JuanPapaNicolao naah not really because they make you go slower. They won't let you go right on the edge of control because bad drivers won't be able to handle it. But if you are a bad driver (depending on how hard the car is to drive fast) they can make you go faster, but for a professional it is better to avoid it for fast laps. Exept that it can preserve the tyres for longer races.
agreed, i love all the car shows, i believe if u love cars, you cna like any of the shows
it may feel like that a little sometimes as the wheels will lock up but in a controlled fashion to avoid excessive over or understeer and so keep control of the vehicle
@crabsallover esp not esc. it's a "elektronisches stabilitäts programm" or in english electronic stability program. and ABS is a "anti-blockier-system" or engl. antilock braking system.
oooh! i have a X-type 3L 4-wheel drive, never got the chans to test it on snow and ice yet but if a 2L frontwheel driven version can do that good it looks promesing!
@BHRcar216 Its a Jaguar XJ.
With probably Bosch electronics.
I've got a 16 year old jeep with no traction control BS or anything like that. $800 for studded winter tires and some yearly practice with various techniques and I'm good to go. You can have all that fancy shit.
he is a professional driver. remember that. I'm not sure they think like ordinary drivers do.
Not sure a snow covered icy lake is the best. There’s nothing like being on a combination of black ice and sudden traction(pavement) to wake you up while driving in winter
Wait until blind side detection becomes common in all cars. People will start to not to even bother looking in their side mirrors anymore to change lanes.
cool vid. glad to have esp traction control abs 4wd and lots of other things in my car. although its good to turn off esp on racetrack.
Holy shit I didn't believe it myself! Damn I want that shit for the winter
okay your so good with this stuff... what is this? i dont fully get it beacause tehres traction controll and ABS. is this ABS or what?
great systems.. very useful and sometimes they can save your life...
ESP has screwed me over twice. going around wet roundabout start to slide poop self opposite lock give gas easy as that but no esp wants the rear wheels to face the front set and causes me to narrowly miss the round about because i had to straiten up
Trust me, that hill is designed to make you fail without traction control. You can not under any circumstances bar having a 500 yard run up make it up there without traction control.
that would be good i have the abs in my truck turned off because the it will not let the brakes lock in slippery conditions. the truck will just continue a slow roll if you are going down hill
insane or just plain smart and should be on EVERY car, both!
Of course you cant doit in the UK, but rest of east Europe countries are using Winter tires as we do, and im not worry to drive 60mph on the motorway. But not in here as it was about 2 weeks ago. On the summer tires as are in here. Ofcourse drivers doesn't need them as we do.
he means 5th gear torched the building that stored the topgear studio props
One would have to be incredibly dense to drive in the manner used to demonstrate absence if each assist.
Does this mean with esp you should not turn into the skid?
@thepreme123 even rally drivers can't do that slalom with a speed of 70mph. if you ever watched rally you will also see that there are corners - a short strait pease of street and than the next corner. but if you in your car have to change the lane because of an animal and than change right back because of an other car on the other lane you can't keep you car from oversteer. thats why esp, that can keep your car from oversteer by brakng one wheel at a time.
nice to know some piece of electronic take care of problems you wouldn't have it you weren't driving a SUV ;)
The attempt with ESP - ON didn't started at stop position as the other attempts
What enables a racing instructor to be able to see the faults in another person's driving?
I think he drove that way to show how most people drive in poor weather conditions.
Agreed! Cheers mate!
I have to say, It looks like tiff was trying to lose it when the cars esp and TC was turned off. he was far more gentle and smooth when the ESP as on. obviously ESP would help even if he was tryingto lose it with ESP on but it seems like an unfair test
@Dermo1985 there are some idiots who do that. i live in arjeplog myself and some persons aren't afraid of going 120km/h on the icy roads with lots of raindeers and mooses next to the road.
Hey does anyone know if an Audi tt quattro will be decent in snow? :/ im about to go over a pass this weekend and not sure if i should go on or not...
I could have used ESP today. I spun out on a wet/oily/dusty roundabout. It wouldn't even respond to my corrections. Fortunately, noone was around and it just stopped on the grass.
Agreed
Anyone who can actually compare equally would see a Lexus is better than a Mercedes. Like LS600H being better than an S600 in any way. Luxury, performance, electronics, safety... anything
the hill part was rigged. with trac cntrl on he had a running start. he went into it at like 20mph. traction or no traction control, youre not getting uphill on ice from a dead start
@FuriousHondaBoy Have you listened to anything he said before driving up the icy slope?
5th Gear is a great TV Show
@AdmiralGilgamesh yeah right, have you ever driven on a track like that? I bet you haven't but if you want to come here to Arjeplog and we will se who will win.
@lukerobin01
yess thats right but what if ur driving on slippery surfaces ?? only god and good wheels will help
wow my next cars gona have all of the above espcially when i live in canada
no they told him to drive at 70 on sheet ice and pull 3 emergency maneuvers. and then pull the same thing with esp on to show the benefits of esp =p
@Dermo1985
Blatantly to demonstrate the capabilities of the ESP.
i like Tiff Needel ( or however u spell it) because he likes BMW's and says that the M5 is the best car in the world..AGRRRED!!!!
Well, Fifth Gear is more factual, but Top Gear is more fun.
ok. All cars should be fitted with ESP, fair enough. Sports cars, on the other end, should have a button to disable it. It makes the car understeer a lot, and sometimes very unexpectedly under controlled situations
I juste hope all this stuff won't serve as an excuse for car manufacturers to make bad chassis
i am. i love snow and ice driving. i live for it.
well even todays abs systems can't stop the car as good as car without abs on ice and snow. braking distance is almost 10m more, and you can fit few small cars in that cap. and the to be able to controll your car because not locking is useles on ice or snow.. you dont have the grip still to do anything. TC otherhand is good but only thing is that it can takes away too much power when you are in deep snow and there is not enough revs and engine dies. so you cant get anywhere still.
@samnelso thats how a normal driver might react when faced with a sudden avoidance situation
I love to live in Sweden! :D
yes i know when it coms to luxury i agree there number one including lexus...but those european brands are known for so many trouble spots now days...for example my buddies a4..is a lemon.
That is SOME small-town industry they have there...
Looking at the steering inputs for non-ESP and ESP scenarios it looks like non-ESP run was deliberately goofed up. That being said, ESP is probaby one of the best features a car can have when it comes to driving in adverse conditions.
ESP makes people push cars way way way past their limits, because they think they have an electronic safety net that will save them every time. Also a few cars i've been in driven fitted with ESP, with it turned off are running awful awful suspension. The only thing that makes the car handle properly, even at street speeds, is the ESP.
@dude2106 ill give you that
good thing im a decent driver
and the car i currently own only has one drivers assist
cruise control no ABS no TCS
esp is life!
@samnelso have you ever been on a icey road. were do you live? africa...
looks pretty fun
8:54 - fantastic!!
Exactly.
what does he say at 8:57 ? "it's easy to see why mercedes (recko cuts accidents) by a third while toyota by a half." i don't get it.
Mercedes drivers tend to drive a lot faster,hence not as many survive a crash due to the speed factor.
kirkmetkirk
"reckon" defined as: conclude after calculation; be of the opinion.