Study reveals the price to replace EV batteries has halved
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- Äas pĹidĂĄn 3. 07. 2024
- Study reveals the price to replace EV batteries has halved
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#evbattery #lithium #price #evs #batteryreplacement
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If the price of EV replacement batteries is going down (halved), insurance company should start reducing the cost of EV car insurance.
maybe, instead of 5,000 a year now 3000 plus inflation 3,500, wow what a save. i owned a PHEV for which i was paying 1300 insurancebecause it was electric. i traded it in to buy a vw atlas R LINE a beautiful vehicle worth 55,000 dollars, INsurance rate 800 dollars. once the time comes to replace your ev, it will be worthless, why6 nobody will want it, so you will have lost 50,000 in 5 years and saved nothing and haqve nothing left to buy a new car , your loss considering you are buying a new one could be astronomus.
mean while in 5 years my vw will stil be worth 20,000 dollars
but gas will be North of 10 dollars a gallon if you can get it.
The insurance companies have to pay a lot for fender benders now because there's cameras and electronics equipment in everyone's bumper, EV or not, so I've heard.
ââ@@art333-dg8ddWhy would your VW be worth 20k when companies make $10k EV's and we will get them en masse in a couple years. People would rather buy a brand new car.
One will ALWAYS get 1/2 range of 60kWh pack from 30kWh pack, all other being equal, pay attention! Maybe 120kWh pack will cost the same in 8 years as 60kWh pack costs now, then you can get double range for the same price, but NEVER for the same capacity.
I think what Sam should have said here is that if the energy density doubles over time, your new 60kWh battery will take up only half as much space (or be half as heavy) as the old 60kWh battery, so you could theoretically cram a 120kWh battery into the space left by the old 60kWh battery, thereby doubling the range.
Sam gets this wrong every time he discusses density and range.
butâŚâŚ a 60 kWh pack would likely be a lot lighter than the original, so you would get weight saving and therefore more range from the same capacity pack. buy yes, he got it wrong.
@@kiddster2112 There is no basis for hope that energy density of Li-Ion batteries will double any time soon. It didn't change much in the last 30 years. Li-Ion is not a new technology. Other chemistries are even worse in this or other aspect or only work in the lab.
Electrician here: An EVs range is mostly determined by the kWhr size of the battery pack, total vehicles weight, expected speed, and drag ratio. The average EV battery pack is 25% of the total vehicle weight, so if an older 60 kWhr battery pack is replaced with another 60 kWhr pack that weighs 20% less than the original pack, then the overall vehicle weight will only decrease by ~5%. This would only add a small amount of range. Or one could go with a slightly smaller pack to achieve the same range, BUT NOT A 35 kWhr battery. It would have to be around 50-55 kWhrs to achieve the same range.
I suspect most people would want to have a larger pack that would increase range rather than a smaller pack that kept the range the same.
@@GoCoyote and what if the energy density increases 30%? Your 60 kWh pack is now 80 and you've another hundred miles to enjoy.
I think most people would want slightly more range in a slightly smaller, modestly less expensive pack.
They don't need 500 or even 400 mile range. 320m to 360m would be great if the car is $30,000 instead of $42,000.
@@macmcleod1188 Agree. Ultimately, the markets will decide. When people have a choice, it will be interesting to see which way they go. Same weight, more miles, same cost. Or less weight, less miles, less cost.
lower priced BEV's would fill a niche of a 2nd car that is used to commute or run errands. It will not need long range so can have a smaller battery. Less range, less performance, less costs.
8:30 Do you mean $10,000 per tonne? đ
Nope, $10k per kg, so you can make tens of thousands selling your old EV battery pack. It will pay for a brand new Tesla !
No, $10,000/kg. Basically, you trade in your old 40kWh Leaf battery and at 195Wh/kg the recycling company pays you just over $2 million to take it off your hands.
It's a similar principle to the magic silver balls video the other day. You set them up in a room full of ambient light and generate the same amount of power as a small nuclear power station.
He is losing it đ
@@yggdrasil9039
@@hardi.howdy.983 Not really. He puts out like 5 videos per day, so he doesn't have much time to proofread his script, if he even has one. The info is normally very good, but yeah, proofreading is needed.
7:42 If your car has as 60 kWh battery pack, you will always need a 60 kWh battery pack to get the same amount of range. You will not get more range from a 60 kWh pack no matter the battery density because efficiency is the same for the vehicle. However, if battery density is 2x, then you can put a 120 kWh battery in the same pack size and that will increase your range.
đ. 60 kWh is 60 kWh no matter how dense the battery is.
That is not true. Example: If your current 60 kwh battery pack has an energy density of 150 wh/kg then the weight would be 882 pounds. In the future if you replace the 60 kwh pack with one that has an energy density of 500 wh/kg then the battery weight would only be 265 pounds. That is a substantial weight decrease of 617 pounds. Just the battery weight reduction alone (not to mention the possibility of shaving additional weight off brakes, suspension, frame etc). would result in greater range. So you could choose to replace the old battery with the new 60 kwh pack for more range or go with a new 50-55 kwh pack to maintain the same range as you had with your old 150 wh/kg pack.
@@skipondowntheroad5833 it's already in kilograms, why are you converting it to pounds? đ§
@@skipondowntheroad5833 You're talking about more than 3x battery density to have a 5-10 kWh smaller pack. He said 35 kWh pack for the same range or same size battery pack with double the range.
I'll bet out of warranty EV battery replacements are very rare. I'd like to see numbers on that. There are millions of them now and I just don't hear many cases of battery replacements. It would also be interesting to know how much it costs to replace a hybrid or PHEV battery.
If price of batteries are dropping, then why Kia/Hyundai still quote C$60,000 for a replacement pack?
the "free market" in action. :)
8:05 Not here in the States, Tesla battery pack are outrageously priced. People here are selling their cars rather than buying batteries. That's why you see so many Teslas on used car lots
Do you spend your days walking around used car lots?
Good morning Sam. From Canada.
Keep up the fantastic work.
Good luck with the family.
Hey Canada! Greetings from Minnesota (aka Southern Canadađ)!
Yeah, this is one of his best videos.... Except for the mistake he made about the price of old batteries. I hope he corrects and re-uploads.
Really, this video answers one of the biggest criticisms EV trashers have.
From $30,000 to $15,000... Weeeeee
We did pay over $ 28,000 for batteries for our Tesla and immediately got rid of it. No more for me !
I keep saying that Tesla are being super greedy with their prices, and need to slash them big time...
They are selling them at what the market will pay. Would you sell your products at less than people are willing to pay?
@@MrSteeDoo it's a flawed logic, as this contributes to the misery index because people are not that good at making smart financial decisions and end up taking on more debt that they can handle, which then causes them to lose their Teslas due to getting it repossessed or sold for way cheaper on secondary markets, all which eventually will affect the sales of new Teslas. Also, there are many more people who are willing to pay a fair price, and I would say that a starting price of 35K for a model Y (before any incentives or government credits) would be a fair price. You don't want to sell something to someone to make them an ill addict, you want to sell people stuff that makes them better and healthier people, does this all make sense to you?
batteries are consumables. And there are no universal batteries for cars (unlike in the BEV RC World).
So basically you get the car for "free" and you just pay the battery. Much like Inkjet printers.
@@svr5423 Not really. The ink in an inkjet printer must be replenished regularly and you pay through the nose for it if you buy OEM ink. An EV batery will now outlast the car.
@@rogerphelps9939 that doesn't speak for the BEV cars if they don't outlast a battery :).
It's like android phones, by the time the battery dies it's completely outdated and useless anyway.
This guy has way to much Hype
I don't want my battery to be replaced, I want it to be repaired for a considerably lower price.
there are battery repairers for Tesla in the US Gruber motors being one
You're driving a 4 wheeled touchscreen phone, not a car. As a result, failed components must be replaced, often at a cost exceeding the value of the thing.
Ain't gonna happen.
It would be awesome if the vehicles with the 4680's were designed to where each cell could be replaced. Instead of glueing them all together.
@@ryandgarland The problem is roughly 90% of the battery issues happen because of water leaking into the battery case. This is why they glue more and more.
@@gerbre1 đ their approach is that the battery is meant to live for the life time of the car. Which is ideal. However the tech isn't quite there yet, so some battery replacements are still necessary. This is where dreaming of a hypothetical world where being able to replace each cell would be ideal from a consumer repair perspective. In the real world, it doesn't make any sense from a functional or economical perspective. Gluing the whole thing together and making it more structural is a better way to go.
Awesome!!!
$10,000 per kg. So a dead battery is worth $100,000?
EV batteries are not 10kg, they are at least 200kg. So you're looking at around $2 million dollars trade in value, yep.
@@yggdrasil9039 No wonder Elon is the richest person in the world!
@@stefan2796 Why, he sells a 2 million battery pack for 10 thousand? How does that make him money?
10 Dollars per kg is realistic.
Your math is off, the price of battery packs is calculated by the capacity of the battery not the weight. Eg. $133/kWh for an 80kWh pack is 133x80=$10640.
Time to get into the battery recycling business. Nice vid!
7:40 HUH??? If I have a 60 kWh battery today, I only need a 35 kWh replacement battery in 2035 for the same range??
Science Ă la Sam the Electric Viking... ;)
He probably means smaller physical size and weight for same kWh.
@@JeraXO Yes, I figured so. But it's not what he said.
He's said things like this before.
It's like he thinks halving the weight of the battery doubles the range of the car. Obviously the lighter battery will help with the watts per mile/km, but probably by like 10 or 15%. It's not going to halve your power consumption.
@@patrickbeck4062 Yup, exactly.
More likely youâd get a 120kWh battery with the same dimensions and mass having double the energy density ergo twice the range at possibly half the price?
You will need the same kWh battery in the future , the weight of the battery may be half the weight/price . But you will need the same capacity
yep a lighter battery might engender some overall efficiency but the kwh needs to be the same.
Agree. I heard same in multiple videos. If you have 60KWH battery you will always need a 60KWH battery for the same range. When energy density is higher, volume and weight of the battery will be lower.
We already have a company here in the UK (Cleeverly EV) who are willing to insure a Tesla battery after the 8 year warranty has expired. They can also remotely check your battery's condition on a Tesla for ÂŁ60. Handy if your considering buying a used Tesla Remember we are still in the early stages of electric cars and their batteries. Everything is just going to get better and better owning an electric car.
Yeah right!
Dude .. a replacement battery will need to be about the same kWh rating. Your observation of how density is going up .. saving some weight is valid .. but since the carâs suspension was designed for the origional weight, it would need to stay the same. Now .. of course the point is moot since BEV batteries outlast the car anyway.
I hope we don't start throwing away cars after couple of months to 5 years just because the battery is broken.
Please correct estimated black mass value.
Obama is priceless
â@@larryc1616bahahaha
8 years or 100k miles people are getting caught out on the 100k miles part not the 8 year part.
Still better than what you get with an ICE. And even then you have to pay the stealerships for servicing to maintain warranty.
In Aus Mitsubishi 10 yrs, Honda 8 yrs n Kia 7 yrs all with unlimited mileage. We also don't have to go to the dealership for servicing, any registered mechanic can do warranty work.
People are not getting "caught out".
Our 8 year old Tesla is at 92% of original range. Not looking to replace the battery anytime soon.
The prices do not reflect this study. $13,000 for the model 3 $14,000 for the model X and between $13,000 and $20,000 for the S. As of June 2024 from JD Power.
Quit trying to inject reality into Sam's delusion. IF he ever actually reads comments, he might need to go to a safe space.
@@dzcav3 czcams.com/video/rVFiRL49_rc/video.htmlsi=Poah5WA34YTdm8wF. I guess his head will explode with this.
@@dzcav3 I love how someone keeps pulling my posts down when I post something from MGUY Australia
czcams.com/video/jbLWZSp4va8/video.htmlsi=9AGXNU6uPM0-88G9
Used EVs unable to sell. In Canada people are selling ten year old teslas with 400,000 kms, but the batteries have been replaced as has the suspension and they are in need of wiring work or even body panels and glass need to be replaced. And they are being sold for $30,000 or more.
@@dzcav3 I went on auto trader Canada to see the highest mileage Tesla. A guy in Quebec has a near 400,000 km Model S and he has already replaced the whole battery, he doesnât say when but he also replaced the battery cooling system, the whole suspension system and it needs a new door with wiring harness and a couple of windows, including the back glass need to be replaced because of cracks. He is asking $34,000.
There are other people who have done the exact same repairs and are trying to sell them for the same price. They are so not worth it especially since no one will tell you when they replaced the battery packs.
And just so people understand a windshield for a model 3 out of pocket is $2000, so a windshield for a Model S would be just as expensive and a back window would be about the same. So owning a used EV without a warranty is a financial deathwish. And anyone buying a used EV especially a cheap well ragged out one for that price is an idiot.
Viking, I just crossed 200,000 miles on my original model 3 performance battery. Will link you to video when it's up.
The prices of commodities is so volatile that it's very difficult for providers to regulate the prices. And every time they find a significant source of the components for manufacture it causes pressures from the market that are artificial to the actual cost of recovery. đŽ
đđ
Black mass sells for $10000 per 2 pounds?
Yep. Trade in your old Nissan Leaf 40kWh battery, and with that weighing in at around 200kg you'd make about $2 million.
I'm seriously surprised why more people don't buy an EV with that kind of a return on investment.
I think it was meant to be per metric tonne not per metric kilo
Vaporware currently sells at 100K per ounce...just mind blowing! Sam knows all about it.
We need the price of home storage batteries to really come do own now. That would really jump start, no archaic term in the EV age. That would really turbo chargeâŚno, another term for buggy whip, archaic technology. That would speed up home electrification, EV adoption, the phase out of gas yard tools, etc. Right now, home batteries have an installed cost of $800 to well over $1,000 per kWh. When home battery storage drops below an installed cost of $100 per kWh, then the corrupt gas and electricity cartels will be disrupted!
You can't assume that a company is going to make a battery that is cheaper for an older car in the future when the battery energy density is higher. Much of this is going to depend on how popular the car is at the time it was made and whether or not tons of people bought it which then will determine if other companies will want to make a replacement battery.
Will see
đĽ đĽđĽđĽ Do a video on recycling âťď¸ EV batteryâs ! And reusing them. Australia focused please.
Great video. Have a Tesla. First one arriving in Australia. Figuring out how to convert old battery to solar battery.
Have a 2015 LEAF, and everything is fine, including the battery. Zero problems with the main HV pack.
congrats!
The battery pack of my 2022 BEV has been replaced just a few weeks ago on warranty.
Meanwhile, the lead acid battery in my ice car is still doing its thing.
Does the leaf have thermal management on their batteries yet? At one time, they only had air cooling. This can't still be true?
â@@svr5423I just googled it. The leaf does Not have a thermal management system for its battery. Your experience is not surprising. it is expected. đŽ
@@svr5423 The 12 volt lead acid battery in my 2015 Leaf lasted nine years and only needed replacement earlier this year.
That's good but I have seen a youtube video where they talk about motor seals which fail in Tesla's (a fair number of times) and then coolant gets into the motor where it shouldn't and the repair costs are as much as maybe changing an engine or transmission in an ICE car. That's kind of scary. I would hate to have that kind of repair bill. Especially if they're not fixing a problem that they know they have.
Electric Viking. A 60kWh battery is a 60kWh battery no matter the energy density, the difference is with higher energy density, it will weigh less.
10 grand per kilo? We're gonna get so friggen rich.
Perhaps there should be an open source battery management hardware / software platform.
How about NO
Sounds like a fire hazard đ
Black mass is $10000/kg? So if I can get 10 kg of BM from my 500 kg battery itâs worth $100 000??
Something is not right here. What am I missing? Even if I could get 4 kg of BM from a Leaf battery, it would make sense to me to go buy all the Leafs on the planet and drive them to a recycling facility.
$10000 per metric ton, methinks
I saw that figure also and it didn't make sense
I think he meant Ton
You'll get about 3k for your old leaf battery at a recycler or at a energy storage company
â@@larryc1616BS.
While the price is coming down, they're still a bit too heavy. I'd like to see a 35-40 percent drop in weight (and also size) without losing range, something that may not occur until the late 2020's as new battery chemistries becomes available commercially.
In 10 years time we may not have EV anymore. Technology is accelerating so much now that a new tech is likely to replace it.
Could/should the old battery pack be factored in to a discounted price? Seems this would make sense in the recycling process.
Sam - You got a little mixed up on the energy density as 30 kWh is 30 kWh regardless of the density. My Nissan Leaf for example has a 24 kWh battery which weighs around 600 lbs so if I replace it with a new pack where the weight of 1 kWh is half of what it was in the original then the replacement 24 kWh battery will weigh around 300 lbs and I might see a modest increase in range due to it weighing 300 lbs less than the original battery. If I replace it with a battery that weighs around 600 lbs then I might end up with about 50 kWh and around twice the range from a battery that weighs the same as the original 24 kWh battery.
Worn out ICE engines are not worthless unless the block is cracked, has a hole blown through it or similar catastrophic damage has occurred otherwise it generally has a Core Value of around $500 +\- for gasoline engines and around $1,000 +\- for diesel engines. Even with catastrophic damage its still has a value based on the current price per pound of scrap iron with mixed metals.
Best!
Its really good you are letting folk know of this.
7:08 Sam, I donât follow a higher density battery pack can have a smaller capacity ie from 60kW to 35kW, driving the same load. Though, I get it that the pack size is smaller while battery capacity stays the same. 60kW in your example.
If the battery gets replaced under warranty in the first 8 years you are VERY lucky. That's like getting two lifetimes out of one car.
I can now get a second hand Mitsubishi IMiEV battery for about $400 AUD.
Manufacturers don't give an 8 year warranty if they think it's likely to fail within that time frame. I'd happily assume you'd get 10 - 15 years. BYD says likely 20-25 years of current batteries and newer tech probably extends that. Very few people keep a car for 20-25 years. I'm waiting on a 800-1,000km battery because at my age it will be my last car and a 30% loss in km means it's still useful to me as I age
I don't know how you can say the battery prices have gone down. My colleague here in Las Vegas had to replace his model s battery it is 10 years old he had to pay $14,000 and has to wait 3 weeks. Nope I don't think they're going down. By the way his car only had 50,000 mi on it in 10 years
If you get your EV battery replaced I'll bet they don't let you keep the old one. I would take it out and sell it (or use it for solar) then have a new one installed.
8 years or 100,000 miles. Out in western US we drive 25k miles a year pretty easily. That would only be 4 years..
They canât sell them thereâs an ver supply
One of the things you have not taken into account is Robotaxi. Musk is estimating 3-5 times usage, but I haven't heard replacement battery costs. Point is, the car will have 250K mileage sooner. So that fleet will need maintenance and battery replacement. But the car itself still newer, so worth it to do.
Id really like to replace my 13 year old Mitsubishi minicab miev EV Kei van battery, but nobody to the people doing replacements that battery prices have fallen, also they dont seem to get the fact that a 1 year warranty for a battery pack just wont cut it. The other thing is keeping the brand of battery supplied secret doesnt do them any favours either. I suppose ill just have to donthe conversion myself for half the cost.
The energy density going up in the future does not mean the pack will be replaced, as you say, with one that has half the KWH capacity for the same range. It could be replaced with a lighter pack with just a little less energy capacity to compensate for the lost weight.
At this moment Tesla will only replace my S85 pack like for like. I have asked if there are plans to upgrade these older batteries. No plans for this.
car values is now unforgiving not a storage of money as the past....
đ¤
Sorry Sam I canât give you a thumbs up on this one! $10,000 per kg - hilarious.
NEW battery technology by SAKUU promises to be SAFER, easier to manufacture and uses less metal thus making it LIGHTER too. SANDY MUNRO loves it. EXCITING TIMES!
Black mass cannot be worth that much. That means that the 772 kg pack in a model Y is worth $7,700,000
Sam, good job appreciate your videos. One thing, If energy density increases I don't think you need a lower KWH battery for same range. I would think that if energy density increases, You need the same KWH battery (60KWH in this case) but the battery will be lighter, smaller, eventually cheaper for the same capacity (60KWH).
TOO much people assume that less weight drops the energy consumption/ mile also.
That thought is , especially for regenerating EV's, completely false.
Because the extra energy you need to accelerate a heavy car will be regenerated back when slowing down for the most part.
The only increase with extra weight is some rolling resistance...but in EV cars that is a tiny fraction of the total energy we need to overcome the drag of the car.
(I never noticed a higher energy usage if my car was empty (only myself as driver) or loaded to the max allowed weight.)
If you use the price of a Lifpo4 battery today vs 5 to 10 years ago. 10 years ago a 100 amp hour batter cost $ 1,100 00 bucks today they are less the $ 300.00 this if a EV battery today last for 10 years before it losses 10 to 20% of it's original charging state ..it will still be a good battery for between 15 to 25 years .. yeah..
Would be nice if CATL LIFEPO4 280-320ah cells were reduced in price to EU. Most of the cost is shipping and taxes.
the black mass around 10 usd per kg....right ?
What is currently (pun alert) needed is an insurance for battery replacement.
Hi Iâm calling about your automotive battery extended warranty
Warranty and extended warranty
or just lease the battery
@@svr5423 Your car is fine but failed to start due to the battery lease expiration. Please enter your credit card for continued use of your EV.
Tesla doesn't disclose the numbers for all of its vehicles and the Cybertruck is lumped in with other products under 'other'. The consenus is that the CT sold about 8000 vs the Lightning at 7902. So Tesla sold a whopping 98 more trucks.đ
Now that I have gotten a good look at the CT, I will say it does look slightly better in person, but it's not really a truck in the traditional sense. I don't see it being used as a work vehicle.
Labor is the issue, not sure when that will go down
I really wish EV batteries could be standardised like lead car batteries. Maybe youd have to downgrade but you should be able to get a standard battery that keeps the car going for cheap.
Thanks to china,s efficiency and scale that the cost of battery manufacture has halved.Over time it will come down even more as the technology improves.
if vw would commit to an fixed price of around 7500 euros for an new 58 kwh battery , i would consider to buy an id 3
Hi Sam
Could you cover data privacy issues with smart cars?
He can't.
He just reads others' articles.
If you are concerned about data privacy, chuck your smartphone in the bin. And make sure you don't walk anywhere with CCTV. And don't have an account on youtube.
chinese EVs are part of the CCP mass surveillance program.
Yeah! Yeah! Whatever!đ¤Łđ
A Price being down 50% isn't saying the cost of production is down. Just as BEV prices are being slashed; it isn't due to lower production costs, in fact those are rising due to higher interest rates. The prices are down due to lower demand for the same reason; higher interest, resulting lower demand, and over production. You can find many such economic upsets. Oil producers can overproduce resulting in oil sold under the cost of production; or wheat, or hoursing in a high interest environment. So you see all the BEV makers and subsystem makers cutting prices and quaity just to try to survive. It isn't a good sign; it is a very bad sign as profits go to losses.
I started watching this channel to see what is happening with EV technology. At the time I did not realize that you are a believer much more than a thinker/reporter. I do not need more propaganda. Too bad. I will not return.
Ok, beat it then. Don't let the door hit you in the butt.
Estimates have the CATL LFP pack at $85/kwh in China. This would be a volume quote. Perhaps Tesla China pays a little less? In reference to "replacement" batteries the current generation of EV batteries at "ten years" measurable range lost will be 10% to 20%. Perhaps we're estimating 175,000 miles? I've been running gas cars for a little over 50 years, the average gas car over 175,000 miles is not a joy to drive.
There are 80 battery factories planned or under construction worldwide. Billions are being spent getting the price down and they have succeeded. All of this being said? Replacing an EV battery is very expensive and they are never going to be cheap.
What i find really annoying is that the anti EV lobby keep saying lithium is a rare element. It's not . If they had paid attention in their chemistry lessons they would have learned that lithium is just below hydrogen in the periodic table. And cobalt is not a rare element.
I rather just get a Nio and forget about battery degradation. If I want to save some money Iâll get me a Onvo.
No. The Nio business model isdestined to fail. No need for silly battery swapping. The cost of keeping a huge battery inventory at each swap sation in order to meet demand peaks will kill it.
@@rogerphelps9939 Nio dose not only rely on battery swap. It also has charging stations all over China. Nio partnerships with other EV companies such as Geely , will generate revenue off battery swap alone. Many customers prefer battery swap to have that piece of mind in terms of battery degradation And range anxiety. Basics arithmetic will tell you With Baas, which means berries as a service will dominate the landscape.
Glut of batteries are because BEV production has dropped significantly. Prices have dropped because they are trying to shift them as demand declines..! Battery plants are being deferred ..!
Not true.
how long should it last if you drive 50000 miles a year?
Half of $50K is still way too expensive. Needs to be under $5K
@7:30 -->
Sam, I think you have a lot of merds wuddled in the following statements.
The vehicle will still require the same energy to go from A to B. Therefore, if energy density of a battery is doubled per Kg, this will mean a smaller and/or lighter and cheaper battery to obtain the same range.
The good news if this eventuates, is that the vehicle will be less heavy and therefore have greater range.
The bad news is that to obtain the same performance in respect of road-holding, there may be a compromise, as many BEV's depend on a structural low-level weight (battery assembly) to achieve this. Therefore to return to original handling performance some ballast would be required. I personally do not think this is a biggie and do not think most folks will go for the ballast option.
Most Lithium Batteries have to be replaced in less than 5 years.
That hasn't changed, even for batteries built in the last couple of years.
A warranty by the car maker will not change this, you'll only get the first, second or third battery for "free" during the warranty. If your BEV is 10 years old, and the battery breaks again, it will still probably be totalled.
not even close to being true. not only do statistics not show this rate of replacement, but anecdotally I have two 5+ year old EVs at my house right now. And another 4 year old EV in teh garage. zero battery issues.
My house is also littered with old lithium powered devices: laptops, phones, gardening equipment, etc. All lithium powered, all still working fine.
@@blanketwodahs6741 cope harder :).
btw, my 2022 BEV already had it's battery replaced under warranty.
Maybe you're talking about EVs in general? Many of them have lead acid batteries to operate the pantograph or the fuel cell system. Those last longer.
They need to halve that insurance. I'm paying a lot compared to my fossil bmw.
Try other insurance company. That is unless you BEV is much more powerful than your BMW.
The insurance for my Skoda Enyaq is abou the same as for a comparable ICE car.
7:50 . He just talked about NIOs USP đ đ đ
You said at the intro it's so relevant to EV buyers. It's not that relevant, as most EV owners will never worry about having to replace a battery. Videos of the Tesla with 340,000 *miles* are online, with original motor and batteries. So it's not that relevant, other than to ICE focused media who might be surprised. It would be great to see truly high capacity battery packs developed for early EVs like the early Leaf cars, to give them a new life.
In the netherlands I could have replaced my original leaf battery for a 48KWh version...even 60KWH was possible if I would offer part of the luggage room.
However that last one was to pricy for me. Checked this in 2021. 60KWH would cost me half the new value of that leaf but increasing the range , based on experience, to only 315 km. A konaE64 goes 450 km on the same battery size.
And this is the nect issue...How efficient with energy is a car...that determines if a new battery is usefull or if a new , mor efficient car, is a better choice.
@@reiniernn9071 Many thanks for that reply based on your experience. Imagine an era when modern day ranges are sufficiently compact to fit in a Leaf battery compartment...
For some reason, leaf ev owner's (I have a 2017) never can quite qualify for the warranty guarantee. Always some fine print clause that explains why you just won't get a free replacement, but they want $15.000 here in Oregon & if you say "do it" you go on an 8 month waiting list that never seems to get cot up. I can get another 2017 leaf used for $8000. Yea, they don't want no stinking electrical car's messing with that worldwide oil power! PS most dealers don't even have an EV tech on hire in their shops in America.
It is typical car stealership / manufacturer tactics. I had the same thing with a suspension strut fault on a Peugeot. While the car was in warranty, no issue could ever be found but the WEEK after warranty expired, the mechanic had diagnosed the "fault" before he had driven the car out of the parking lot. They eventually did the work based on an 85% reduction but I was still steaming.
There is hesitation on buying new electric cars due to manufacturers rapidly reducing prices of late.
There is hesitation on buying second hand electric cars due to the above and also the uncertainty of the condition of the battery. Most people are not going to check the battery with an OBD reader, and apart from that, there is no credible source of information to go by with concerns to battery health. Issues like - has it been overly supercharged, has it got damage from road debris, what is the current degradation, what is the makeup of the battery (NMC - LFP etc), or even what is the current cost of a replacement battery?
Apart from all of that putting the skids on second hand buying, people know that new chemistry batteries with much longer range, much more safety and the fact they are becoming cheaper causes buyers to wait and see.
I bought a used model 3 for 19,000 with 20% degradation. Should go for another 200,000 miles if I take care of it. In fact it seems to have rebounded by one percent. Pretty good deal for dollars per mile of range. Awesome car to drive.
The cost of replacement packs is dropping for OEMs, but whereâs the evidence any of that is passed on to the customer who needs one. The OEM basically has a monopoly after all.
And I would think the replacements would be better than the originals. I would only count on Tesla and the Chinese to replace them though .
Sam you should see the new Munro Live Ytube on the Sakuu battery . Solid State Lithium in stack able polymer cells. All dry process for both cathode and anode. There where reports of the other brands of cars like you mentioned raping there customers for replacement battery's
Possible. China has the right supply chain to support economies of scale and scope.
+ 500 social credits, straight from panda xi
No mention about labour costs & you cant change it yourself at home + any delay in getting it changed
There are independent garages in the UK that will undertake battery pack replacements and upgrades. For the likes of Zoes and Leafs. Not sure about other vehicles.
You can't get same amount of range from 35 and 60 Kwh battery . You mean that you could get the same range from a smaller size and Weight battery of the future that is energy desse
Some new tech batteries must have come, which will render the existing ones obsolete (worthless actually, because no one will buy them, once better ones are available).𤣠Also, since most people are cancelling EV purchases, they need to move the existing stock, before it goes out of date.
So, the headline is: "Study reveals the price of batteries HAS halved." The content says (at 6.30) "Experts say that battery prices will halve by 2030". And at 8.20 "Black mass is worth $10,000 per kilogram". Actual value: about $5,000 per tonne. Come on Sam, you can do better. I don't know how much you're getting paid nor by who, but your kids are going to see this content one day.
What sort of example is this for them to live their lives by? Honesty and integrity. It goes a long way.
I guess, he has lost it đ¤
I think the Black mass remark was just an oversight, I also thought it was wrong - guessing it should have been $10,000 per metric tonne. goldman Sachs has indeed released a study - and to be accurate one way or another, the dates between halving needs to be known. Also whether you are talking about dropping in half the value or by 50% from the specific dates. Going on price per kwh - the study suggests $99 per kwh by the end of 2024. As studies tend to be linear and reality more like exponential - it may be fair to say prices could be much lower than this. They might also be higher as well. CATL have already stated that their battery prices will drop by 50% from 2023 during 2024. Probably due to the wide adoption of the cheaper Sodium (salt) batteries that already ship in the likes of the BYD Seagull. Overall though, this video is a bit wayward and needs to be clearer on what is a complicated subject with many variations.
Price of batteries HAS halved several times in the last ten years.
Edit: and will halve again by 2030.
Tony Seba on YT channel RethinkX and Sam and to a degree Musk, have said it for years.
In fact Tesla's own 4680's are now more expensive to make than they can buy them in for.
Last year they were cheaper than third party suppliers even though they are making them more efficiently now than last year.
Because Tesla doesnât pay the press.
By law in the US, an EV battery has to be warrantied to 8 years/100k miles minimum.
Which is not enough, considering replacing a battery pack is still extremely expensive. That is why the second hand EV market is having a difficult time. Depreciation on EVs is extreme, like 10-15% per year. Pure money pits.
Every manufacturer should design the battery to be replaced in 10 minutes. One manufacturer already did that. I don't like their 300 mile swap out idea, but it shouldn't take any longer when the time comes in 10 or 20 years. You could drop your battery off for a tune up (bad cell replacement) any time and get a loaner for that.
@@Fred-hi8tt eventually Tesla will do that
@Fred-hi8tt Nio does this. The problem is, are you going to trade your brand new battery in for one that may be nearly done?
I said that I don't like the swap out idea, and getting some old junk is indeed the reason why. All car companies should still use the easily removable design even if it is just used once in the life of the car. â@@GWAForUTBE
Price off EVs on par with ICE cars? Just a recent example here in Europe: Citroen e-C3, 23000 EUR, cheap? Well, ICE version 15000 EUR.
How many kilometers can you drive with 8,000 EUR worth of gas??? And that would be 8,000 plus taxes?
@@bfree6197 Based on current prices, for my Fiesta I would say around 10000 km, but that's not the point. For budget tight families, they will look at the purchase price first, oil and electricity vary anyway. For example, with the Ukrainian war, electricity prices went crazy for a while (lots of bakeries in my region could not afford the costs and had to close).
For myself, I will keep my Fiesta a few more years till more recharging stations are available (I envy the north of my country) and maybe till the current trend of boxy looking cars goes away.
Speaking of recharging stations, with a 30 minutes charging time, I don't understand why they don't put them in the supermarkets parking! It make so much sense to recharge your car while you do your shopping!
Supply surpasses demand. That would explain lower prices. Then.ask why?
EVer buy a mobile phone that cost more but did less ?Even though the world is swimming in the things?
@@user-jt4fy4od9r used to be you could buy a Samsung phone and upgrade the memory. Then the company found they'd make more money selling you another phone .
Replacement? No EV should need a replacement yet only a few years that EV sold in any volume this shows to wait to buy EV until the problems are worked out