Last Epoch - Trade or Self-Found? | Factions Explained
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2024
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00:00 Trade & Item Factions
02:23 Merchant's Guild (Trade)
04:54 Circle of Fortune (SSF)
09:01 Progression in Trade vs SSF
10:30 What Am I Playing?
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Unsure if I missed this in the video but you can’t resell items so flipping won’t be a thing and presumably much less incentive for bots
so once an item is sold once thats it?
@@jtproductions5363 Under the current iteration of Merchant's Guild, yes. Sucks for people who want to play the market like in PoE, but it completely removes the ability to flip items, massively discourages market manipulation and helps mid tier items retain their value for longer since items are constantly leaving the market.
@@jtproductions5363yup it will gain the merchant guild tag once sold and items with the MG tag cannot be resold
@@jtproductions5363 correct. once traded an item can never be traded again
@@jtproductions5363 as of now, yes.
For a true hardcore experience you would go offline merchant guild 😂
Always have been a SSF player in poe and this is my dream come true. I will enjoy the hell out of LE ssf
SSF in last epoch, even without the new factions was already much more bearable than POE because u can somewhat target farm with monoliths, this faction just takes it to the next level.
true but they are also nerfing the drop rate in general so the CoF bonuses won't be as extreme as they seem now relative to the current drop rate.
@@La_Lente_Oscura from what i heard its supposed to be equal to current drop rates at faction level 4, everything above that is a bonus
You can target farm in PoE as well, but that takes hundreds of hours xd
No, false...
People in the Circle of Fortune will have more and better drop...Nothing to see with SSF...
I'm interested to see how it shakes out. I'll be sticking to SSF for sure.
this brilliant idea with the 2 guilds and playstyles is what peaked my interesst in the game and made me buy it
Nice video, as always. This has clarified my choice somewhat.
Good take!
SSF for me. Love this genius system. Ill try trade, But I LOVE the SSF and the theme if Circle of Fortune. The should make the Trade side as cool sounding, add a pirate them to it or someething... Im not so sure Flipping/Sniping is gonna be a viable strat and Im glad of it, Correct me if im wrong, you gotta Play and Farm "Currency" which is required to both Sell and Buy an item on the AH, also I THINK items can only be put on AH once...... Almost positive Im correct in this
Quoted from Epoch forums
"Regarding selling items, there are several restrictions in place. Short answer: You can only trade things in the Merchant Guild that have no faction tag. Items gain a faction tag when they are accquired through any of the factions mechanics."
These Faction mechanics INCLUDE Purchasing from AH or Selling. Once the Item is Bought, it's TAGGED and thus can NOT be sold again or traded.
Ive never wanted to play hardcore or SSF and this is the first game in 20 years to actually make me want to try it. No major penalty on death and better loot to make up for no trade. Amazing system
looking forward to trying out the SSF guild. For me the biggest thing is that trade is not that satisfying or fun from other games. Even if trade can gear you up faster, I think it will be more enjoyable to boost your own drops with the SSF guild and find cool stuff on your own
Me and my son have 100 hours so far.
We are going SF and making our own builds like we have in the past 100 hours.
We followed build guides in PoE for around 400 hrs, its feels so much better here being able to co-op and create your own builds.
Cant wait for 1.0!!!!!!!!!
Last epoch endgame is all about exalted item and legendary potential. With an 1 to 10 ratio between rares and exalted (tested with 20 chest at corruption 311,should not be far away), CoF has 4 times drops of 1- affix exalted(base drop 1 exalted 10 rare, 1*1.5+ 10*0.25 = 4 for CoF, and 1*1+10*0 = 1 for MG). Assuming exalted items with multiple T6 and T7s can't benefit from T8 perk of CoF, still CoF offers a 2.25 times chance to have 2 affixes exalted, 3.375 times chance to have 3 affixes exalted, 5 times chance to have 4 affixes exalted (never seen one in my 1000+ hours though). If the T8 perk applies, things become crazy, 4*1.5=6 times for 2 affixes, 6*1.5 = 9 times for 3, 9*1.5 = 13.5 times for 4...
On top of that 2 times of T7 chance is also quite neat.
Is there any reason to go for Trade league with the SF Guild? I feels like there is not, so all trade guild ppl will play trade league and all sf guild ppl will play sff league.
Or am i missunderstanding something?
This is what I like about independent developers. They have innovative ideas that they just put out there and see how they play out. It's like we have a vision and think it's going to be good - let's see if it's actually good. I like this kind of approach, contrary to Path of Exile SSF mode which is a straight up disadvantage you're just opting in to suck up. Same with private leagues - they have all those modifiers but they are all pure disadvantages over regular softcore trade league.
Median XL offline mode had way higher drop rates than realm (trade) variant. Realm had loot goblins tho.
Diablo 4 will never do any of this, they just make a corporate product, not a game.
The main thing that stopped me from being a SSF player in PoE is the fact that I did NOT know how to craft at ALL. But I know LE's crafting system and I mega vibe with it. So circle of fortune, here I come.
How do I switch to self-found after playing trade for a while? I mean the gear won't work anymore so how do I get some armor and weapons to use?
Thanks
One of the things that I think will be unpredictable is how many people play the league (or cycle) vs legacy, since as of this moment, there's no difference between the two. Will PoE players all play the cycle because of fresh economy, and will that make for a large pool, or since there's no league mechanic or challenge rewards, will legacy actually be the preferred play for most players?
Screw the auction-house when you have "group-found" with the buds :D
This! Im playing exclusively with a friend rocking CoF and just item swapping.
@@jinkxy2370 so you dont have to be a certain rank in the trade guild to equip gear thats bought there?
@@LC-pp4bb yes you do, but we are talking about beeing in the same game with someone and then trading the drops with each other. Which doesnt require trade guild.
Pal me and the wife are going COF all day for launch. Im hyped for such a well thought out lucrative drop system
If you switch from MG, can you still use the equipment you got from there to build up SSF side?
If I change cof to trade can I sell my ssf drop items which are doesn't use before?
I agree with you, once I saw the potential of self-found in LE I was completely sold on my decision. Being able to target farm, knowing that you will eventually get what you're looking for is a HUGE dopamine hit. Plus, since buckling down and learning PoE the last four leagues there really hasn't been a single time where I haven't been Fed over in some way because the masses pivoted so hard into what I was doing. All in all, Self-found is going to be absolutely awesome in my opinion as well.
Self found sounds nice. When more content gets added in coming resets(expansions etc) trade gets more interesting. The big question is: Do I go online or offline? Offline has 0 server issues. Sounds pretty nice
One of the devs recently said that too many people are sleeping on Trade. He says that it will be better than self-found. Also, they are nerfing all drop rates for both factions so that self found will not be busted in the end game with all the buffs. He said that in the end we will get slightly more drops than we do now with the faction maxed out
That sound great to me, felt like getting pretty solid gear was a bit too easy. I tended to get to a "this is fine" loadout and get bored of a build kind of quickly. I like the idea of it being a longer endeavor with the added dopamine of faction levels.
They seem to be overestimating their trade. Listing fees, bind on trade, and item drop nerfs compared to ssf is a huge problem.
It won't. Especially with the fact that after a few ranks the nerf to drops will become obsolete and you'll be finding way more gear then wou were prior to launch.
It won't. Devs also said drop rates in circle will increase so that in a few ranks you won't even notice the nerf. Add to that the fact circle players will find better loot in general, Trades' only advantage is leveling fast.
Can someone help me understand this... so if i play solo self found... i can still trade with homies that were in the party for a drop so if they get something i need or vis versa ect? And then to go farther if its a group i party with alot, I can trade with them even if they were offline ? Im confused lol
how do you group self found?
can i play gsf with a friend and still be in the circle of fortune ?
I think "minmaxing your filter" applies to Merchant's Guild as well, in a different way. You will need to show items that are worth money and if you want to be absolutely efficient at it, your filter needs to stay up to date with the meta.
I believe trade is a one-way transaction. Meaning, once you buy an item, its already bound so flipping or even worse, bot auto-buyers, wont be an issue.
From what I can tell, SSF is a completely different mode from Circle of Fortune. It can be confusing to say CoF is SSF.
Hi Palsteron, thanks for your video, good content. My recommendation would be to choose the Trade Guild for Key Uniques. This way you can bring your character up to about 80% gear strength. Then to get the last 20%, switch to SSF to drop the gigachad items. That's how I'm going to do it. Best regards Kajo
Keep in mind that the items you purchase will get tagged to the Merchants Guild. So you won't be able to shop your way to high levels in the circle.
That is not how it works. You cannot equip CoF items if you joined the Merchants and vice versa.
CoF sounds fun, I think I'll go that.
You should already know what you want to do.
Trade will pretty much always be "better" at making a good character faster. They'd have to put pretty extreme barriers in place to prevent this.
But it's just, in general, a pain in the ass.
Designated SF bonuses help make SF more reasonable for non-sweaty players.
Im going trade to start off because of the incoming huge player count however i have concerns about player retention and in a trade environment it could have very negative consequences compared to ssf
I think it will depend on the runes/scrolls/shards. If the merchants have a vendor that let's you buy a bunch of them (especially if they use favor) it would be imo the better option for those who don't play a ton due to life.
If you dont play alot, then your never affording anything good. The prices for good stuff are going to be prices that 247 hardcore players can afford. not someone who only plays a few hours a week.
@@TheNichq Part of it will be to figure out limited stock and the like. For example Rune of Asentions. The circle gives you a 45% chance for not consuming it, what if the merchants have one a day or x many a week (depending on when they refresh) you can buy but takes a few runs a day to get. It could be 15 minutes to an hour of farming depending on your gear/build if your already built efficiently.
First game that makes me want to play ssf!
So am l right in assuming you can use whatever items you find in ssf on a new character?
You need the rank in ssf to use them
cheers @@skellskell3772
For a first ever character on the game, would you recommend Merchant or Circle? I enjoy crafting my own gear and I normally use the market when I feel blocked (so not as a first option).
I know in time I'll try both but as a first character, not sure what to pick yet.
For a first character you won't have much gold or items anyway so going solo isn't bad. imo
Honestly, just pick whichever one you like the sound of more. CoF will have increased drop rates over the current game, and the current game already has pretty forgiving drop rates for average gear, so if you like the idea of finding your own gear then you can't go wrong with CoF. On the other hand if you'd prefer the safety net of being able to buy gear from other players then MG would obviously be the better pick, but it's worth keeping in mind that nobody knows how well MG will work in an actual gameplay setting, not even EHG. In fact EHG has already made some last-minute changes to MG based on feedback from the player base, since most players seemed more receptive to CoF than MG.
Having some insane drop and wanting to make a new build around it is the BEST feeling in ARPGs. To this day, only Diablo 2 and especially Grim Dawn have given me that feeling.
If LE can give me that feeling, it's by definition a top 3 ARPG already. CoF for sure.
so what do u sell in mid and late game? u need to set up your filter in a way where u can see alll kinds of weapons etc with good stats?
yes. what amazes in this loot filter is that you can make for example “loot for other people” under certain color and “items for you” in different.
leave it to Poe players to mega analyze the shit out of game systems and squeeze them for maximum profit. great video.
what I'm unsure of is that if you swap from one faction to another, your build will be bricked because of the faction locked Items.
i.e I want to start trade to get some gear and swap to ssf, then that gear becomes unusable? or am I understanding this wrong ?
You understand right. If you want to swap, you don't have to level a new character but you will revert to using the trash gear you had before joining the faction. If you saved the gear. Might be a good idea for ppl who think they might swap, to farm some gear before they join a faction.
every item drop from self-found, will be brick if u change to trade league, that just it
I think this is benefit more for Solo players compare to ppl that want to Trade. One reason is because Trade takes more time and effort. Not only you have to wait for someone to buy your items after you put them up for sale, but you can't put a lot of items for sale, you still have to play the game more to get more Favor in order to put more items on the Bazaar.
One of the devs recently said that too many people are sleeping on Trade. He says that it will be better than self-found. Also, they are nerfing all drop rates so that self found will not be busted in the end game with all the buffs. He said that in the end we will get slightly more drops than we do now with the faction maxed out
@@la7era1u54 sounds like he realized 90% of players seem to be going ssf faction and that would cause a big problem if there is no one really participating in the economy. I think a lot of people are going to find it hard to justify the hassle of trade league. I get it if you want to min-max like crazy or be fast at league start but seems like 95% of people don't really care about that
Can’t wait to play a game that actually DROPS items. And allows fun. No 1% trade ticks hanging onto everyone’s balls for a free ride 😊
What if i choose "circle of fortune", farm items, then swap factions, and sell items? :D
Does anyone have info on what it looks like with alt chars? So if I don't play my twink in the same faction as my main? Can I still use the stuff in my chest?
Depends on the faction you had selected when the item dropped, and the circumstances of the item dropping. Generally items are marked with a faction requirement whenever a faction "touches" the item. So, for Merchant's Guild that means any items you buy through the bazaar are marked with a MG faction requirement, requiring you to have MG selected to equip the item. For Circle of Fortune that means any items that drop as a result of CoF's bonuses or prophecies are marked with a CoF faction requirement, requiring you to have CoF selected to equip the item. Items dropped _without_ CoF's influence are _not_ marked with a CoF faction requirement and _can_ be worn by a character with MG selected, _but_ I believe they cannot be sold through the bazaar though I may be wrong there.
@@jcm2606So that means I need even more chest space, because I need every interesting unique I want to keep once for fortune and once for merchant -.-
CoF all the way!
Trade for start, then circle for end game (somes uniques are nice to have as early as possible
Changing factions has penalties.
I know it ty @@DoctorStrange01 , I already calculated all.
My goal is to achieve lvl 100, then when doing empowered mono farming my own uniques and changing faction.
The trade meta will be finding a good base, buying items with needed affixes, using runes of shattering/removal to get shards, craft an expensive item.
till you have to play 10-20 map to buy 1 item ( not only gold, we need a specicfic new currency which only earn when doing a lot of map ), it maybe rather just find it urself
Wait so I can join a faction and get better drops?
Thing is for Merchant, people are going to put such large prices on everything that it will just run off so many people over to Fortune.
Great video. I’m a rookie when it comes to ARPGs so this might seem like a redundant question but what is a self found?
self found is basically "i pay my own bills" you will only use and make/craft what you find in the game, you can still party and trade with your group, but you dont have acess to the market and the faction mechanics. (last epoch for example)
theres also the solo self found, that is the same of the above BUT you will have zero interactions with other people, will be like a single player mode
so ssf is better than market faction?
At which level can we join the guild.?
I didn't got the option when making a new char
Chapter 9. Around level 50
For me its not an optimization question. i will go cof over mg, because i want to see the new mechanics, i know auction houses, i dont know lenses and prophecies. and prophecies are good short/mid term goals that will split up the monogamy of, get in, run to goal, get out. its just something to do. while i like playing the auction house, i think i will stay with the new and and kinda fun sounding over it.
monogamy???
I think there is a misconception based around CoF because people are looking at the perks relative to the current drop rate of items. They will be nerfing the general drop rate with 1.0. It will affect both factions but a nerf like that has a greater affect on SSF players in general.
EHG has already said that the drop rate nerf is balanced such that CoF rank 3/4 roughly matches the drop rates of the current game, and greater ranks exceed the drop rates of the current game for higher end items.
@jcm2606 yeah, im not saying it wont just that it will be less that what people are thinking based km current drop rates. They also said MG will be the quicker way to get gear.
Can you do self found on offline mode?
I wonder if we'll have ladders that distinguish between MG and CoF
yes, different ladders
Not dropping 2 months into making a cool build is the real draw here. I think making rewards mean something to you is a good design for gameplay but the infamous Zod rune droprate from d2 isnt necessary. Its ok if someone puts in 30 hours and gets some good stuff and I think ARPG devs need to take note.
If me and my friend playing circle of fortune and are in the same game can i still give him some item or they are bound to me
Seems like you still need to be the same faction and have the right rank to use the item. So you cant just boost someone with great items, they need to have the specific rank in the specific faction to be able to use the item.
i think trade builds will still be stronger far stronger late into a league even if SSF items have higher realistically achievable top-end. if i understand everything correctly, with trade you'll probably see most top-end people running around with 4-mod uniques. not good uniques, per-say, but i suspect it will be rather easy to buy random common 4-LP uniques and upgrade them with whatever you'd wear otherwise and effectively just get a chunk more mods on every slot.
definitely going SSF myself though. just can't be bothered to learn a new economy for a game i don't know yet if i'm in love with as much as PoE. will probably swap to trade in another league once i see if things shape-up fun like PoE trading is.
I plan on rolling a solid farmer and let crafting dictate my next build through SSF drops. Theorycrafting around trash is what I live for.
Pal said in the video that you can trade with your friends when both of you pay ssf.
Can someone explain to me how this works? I would love to pay bro ssf league with a couple of friends
You can gift items to people in your party
There’s a rare item drop called a “resonance” that is tied to people you’re in a party with as a Circle of Fortune player. You can spend a resonance to send the player that’s tied to that resonance an item. They’re making it so that it’s not super easy to trade all items within a group playing SSF but still possible to send the really good items once in a while. Unclear exactly how rare resonance drop rates are going to be but the dev team has said relatively uncommon.
flippers in LE will not be a problem.. because its literally impossible. Once an item is bought it is unable to be traded again. SF rewards are actually insane, might get nerfed int he future. Maybe not though because it's not like you can trade those items. biggest question for me tho is, are leader boards going to be separate between SF and CoF?
missed the information about how to actually unlock this system?
Its pretty impossible to change ??
Gold inflation is going to be so crazy. Unless you are one of the most hardcore players, you are simply not going to be able to get a top tier item.
the bonuses for circle are just insane. I dont think like you said trade can compete endgame, midgame I totally agree, the speed u can aquire some of the gear u need will cause a power spike. Im probably going to go SSF with a group of friends and play that way, since once u buy an item from trade u cant resell it right? so I cant buy gear for my friends but i can get drops when im soloing with them, its just a not brainer for me, its a shame since I would love there to be a big trade scene but it seems like that when the devs realised that the community wanted trade and it went against their ethos, they made trade but made SSF far more enticing
Also the trade restrictions are going to hurt newer.casual players more, as they transition into midgame if they dont have the correct rank to buy the items they want, that midgame power spike is so delayed. Most people cant even transititon into empwoered monos yet let alone add in a whole rep system into that on a league start with shitty servers xD
@@jonathanhawken and new players don't know how to setup their filter for items to sell, or even what items to look for on trade/to sell. SSF is a better choice for new players, until they know how items work better
@@OlivierCombe 100%.
Solid SSF with crazy Loot , is what GGG try to prevent all the time. I need to play it.
i think Last epoch will show that people actually like SSF, and Poe`s SSF is just hard because of the drops/crafting difficulty
I thought the Circle of Fortune is not limited only to the SSF mode. Can't you be a member even in the normal mode?
Because it isnt, there seems to be a misconception about what CoF is. CoF takes away your access to the Bazaar (auction house), but you can still trade items with party members. Hence it doesnt really equate to SSF, its just less convenience.
Take this with a grain of salt because I haven't played the game and don't know the exact mechanics for set items and LP, but the set item one might be a bit stronger than I think you give it credit for.
I don't know the exact mechanics for it, but if each item can roll Legendary Potential seperately it could be a good way to get consistently higher LP on multiple pieces of a set you're using.
To my knowledge sets can't have LP, if it was the case it would improve sets because atm they are underwhelming
Some individual items can work but it is rare to see builds arround a full set, maybe that will change in 1.0
@@Sul1s0 you are correct that set items don't have LP. I hope they make set items a little more unique to where its like, you finally get the last piece to a set and now you can make a build with that set. The way it is now, the set items are kind of generic and are not really build-enabling
fair enough, glad to learn a bit more about the game thanks!@@Sul1s0
I plan on SSF .... I only play PoE Trade because without it it is unreasonable to play certain builds and because there is a lot of knowlegde in regards to crafting required to actually play SSF well. For me the trading in PoE is an unfortunate necessity rather than a fun part of the game at least if you want to play more than the same couple of builds every league.
you are so wrong on SSF in poe.. you can build 90% of builds in ssf, you just don't need perfect items.
I am 50/50 for both
SF 😤
Fortune Guild it is
you forgot to mention offline mode - lot of us are playing 100% offline mode so i guess our only option is self found
dropping the whole set every time a set item drops sounds INSANE. target farm set gloves is now target farming full sets. keep the best rolling pieces and keep going. craft didn't go as good as it could have on the chest? no problem, you're more likely to get another one because you only have to find one _piece_ of the set, not the _chest_ of the set.
Just to confirm, the circle of fortune is not solo self found faction. You can still party up and trade within that group. You can also find resonances that apply to members in the group so that you can send them an item that drops when that person isn't there for whatever reason. Solo self found still needs to be ticked in the character create screen for it to be solo self found. You CAN STILL TRADE WITHIN THE PARTY in the circle of fortune faction.
multipliers on the Circle of fortune are not really that good, especially since they're nerfing the overall drop rate ... here is the thing, lets say the drop chance of getting an exalted is 1%, a 25% increase, now you have a 1.25%, its still pretty low and you won't notice the difference. For example, do you have an idea of how many items are filtered out by your loot filter? receiving 35% more items won't be noticeable either. This is easily tested in poe where you can get 200% more quantity of items drop and it doesn't make that much of a difference. This is nowhere near close enough powerful as to be able to buy something specific with gold
Exactly, trading will always be OP to make a character, maybe less rewarding, crafting your own things is nice, but for sure not faster than just buying it lol
i hope wsad will be a thing
im going sf cuz i dont want to adjust my lootfilter for all items that could be worth something hahah
Don't you use the favor from the Merchant's guild to buy gear from other players and not gold?
it' costs gold and favour
@@KAJYT6969 Source of that OPINION?
I think they will nerf base drop chances for everything, to balance ssf drop buffs😢
They have already stated this. One of the devs recently said that too many people are sleeping on Trade. He says that it will be better than self-found. Also, they are nerfing all drop rates so that self found will not be busted in the end game with all the buffs. He said that in the end we will get slightly more drops than we do now with the faction maxed out
what is 3LP?
Open ingame guide, look for "Legendary"
SSF all the way. Unless you are pushing leaderboards then trading makes sense to fill the caps you might be missing. I dont see LE leaderboard to be that exclusive achievement to have. Rather enjoying game at your own pace. Afterall level 100 takes quite long time for one char.
If I go ssf does that mean I can't trade with a friend while we are playing? Or can I just not use to market? Calling it SSF suggests we cannot but I'm still unsure.
I wrote this just before I got my answer from the video 😅
I'm gonna go Circle of Fortune, bc i want to expierience the game and archive everything on my own, else i would see me just buying every piece of gear and then quit the league bc i have nothing else to grind for :D
Wait till they make all the items from CoF tradable
...LP?
Merchant’s Guild will not be popular with bind on trade and fees for list items.
No fee to list
It will. And it will be more popular than SSF. A lot of people prefer trade but the way it's done in various games is different, and this system is great when it comes to preventing some shady business. Maybe some PoE players won't simp about it since they love to flip items and trade with everything, but all the rest will like it.
@@DoctorStrange01 The problem there is, probably 85% of the playerbase will be PoE players lol
Why do I feel like I screwed myself and wasted my time?
Drop rate bonus to SSF is lame as hell. That's why they call it CoF LOL
Trade will be for the parents that can only play a couple hours a week
SF will be for streamers who will play 100 hours the first week
Trade definitely makes the experience easier for people who don't spend half a day playing video games. Doesn't have to be a couple hours a week, or 100h a week, those are extremes.
I never enjoyed ssf much exactly because you are "nerfing" yourself for no real reason besides ego. But if this system is what it seems like, it will become the absolute best way to handle this conundrum on ARPG's and t should be adopted by everyone out there
Ego? Because ssf players like to do it all on their own?
Why the vitriol?
Worst idea ever after "bind on equiped" with this factions...
How players could have think to a so shitty system? Crazy...
Best thing for SSF. Circle of Fortune is available in OFFLINE MODE :D
I disagree with your analysis (not with your choice). The referential is the player, in self-found, you don't care if somebody else finds an extremely busted loot. If you play with 10 friends and each of you loot like 64 merchant guild player, you only in total loot like 640 players. The choice will be a lot better in trade.
don't forget the bots bumping prices and cheaters duping stuff. evade human trash and go SF, this system will get busted very soon. learn from poe and diablo auction houses, or wow. you will not be able to farm the amount of gold they demand. also you will waste alot of time browsing and dealing with auction houses and spamming forums complaining about hackers. this small dev team won't be able to deal with it. team up with friends and guild, have fun and skip the bull trade brings.
If its anything like what they were talking about when they introduced multi player, trade is absolute trash. At this point either make it an ssf game, or commit to the split, like every other game has done. Either trade or not lol. Ssf is looking busted and trade looks like mens ass