Update: After working with the devs, we now know there's a minor bug when listing an item that puts the favor gain behind by 1 listing. Meaning if you list an item, you won't see the favor gain until you list another or change zones. This also threw us off on the rep gain for listing an item. It's actually also 2 times the favor spent just like the gambler. So you can spend your favor on either the gambler or listing/buying items and get the same reputation back.
Simple fix on the “what’s an item worth” would just be to have the average MG sale value come up when you hover over the item while you’re aligned with the MG
That's an expensive database call (select item, average(cost) from auctions group by item) for every item looted by every player in the faction. If you want something like a trimmed mean it would be even worse.
i think COF is more rewarding at the beginning of a cycle but after a couple of week its gonna change. RNG still RNG even with the high drop rate from COF you might grind the entire cycle for an item you wont find but can buy it for 200-250k in a week or two with MG.
I started on COF and after 80 hours created a second toon on Merchants Guild and am way happier. MG definitely has a couple of implementation issues and certainly can be a time suck, but you eventually can gear every toon you own to your heart’s desire. Thereby enhancing replayability. With COF I have to set up filters for every possible class/specialization I might play in order store gear I find on the first toon, etc. Otherwise you will still have very very long gear grinds. COF just doesn’t solve the problem of still needing to refarm echoes for boss drops. Sure you may get more LP. But the drop rates remain. Some of these items are just available on MG (and cheap). Which accelerates development.
You can list the items where you can buy them. On the right is an option to list items. But beeing able to actually search for the item name would be great.
Im already lvl 7 in merchant guild,but i still can’t sell any of the items on the auction house,any ideas why ? Feel like its bugged but only for me,so annoying,i can buy items though
Did discuss unique affix filtering not working, and a host of other missing/broken bazaar functions. Looking for a unique with certain level of affixes and there are 500 'pages' x 20 items per page, and no filtering for those affixes.. good luck and that's for 1 item/slot
Trade friction is by design. They want people to build their own gear, and grudgingly added trade. Adding the rep grind is inline with that thinking and is way better than not having trading at all.
You're talking nonsense. The trade guild was a considerable development investment and they want people who like trading to use it. It will clearly be updated over the coming patches.
@@phrozenliquidz Trade is still very hamstrung in LE. For instance, you can't resell at all. Which kills not only flipping, but also manufacturing and recycling i.e. buying something as a base and then improving it via crafting and later reselling it, as well as selling off your old gear once you've upgraded. It's pretty clear they're extremely nervous about truly free trade.
@@ArawnOfAnnwnSounds good to me. Flipping and reselling is 99% bots scouring and instant buying stuff. Selling of your old gear oversaturates the market making ground loot useless. Crafting is quite deterministic and simple in this game so buying a base and then improving it to resell isn't really a thing because there is no hidden knowledge.
@@mariosteyskal5897 So where did you get that figure from? Cue Senator Armstrong meme. In any case my point still stands - you may personally like it, but it still demonstrates that they are nervous about having an open trade system. Which means they haven't solved the ARPG trade debacle, they've just implemented a highly limited version of it like every other ARPG on the market save PoE. Diablo 3 was right, and remains right even a decade later. Auction houses still don't work, and LE doesn't prove otherwise. Despite all the players complaints.
What might help is an interim step. A daily token that allows "X number of trades" for very high level items. Until you reach the level where that level is completely open for you to trade as much as you like So you really need that one legendary that isn't dropping, and it's going to take 2 weeks of your spare time playing the extra 30 hours to get to the point where you can trade for it. Every day, or every 5 hours of play time or whatever, you earn a trade token that you can use to buy or sell ONE ITEM of any level. Interim achievable targets that keep you focussed are vital in looter games. Having regular updates, then a brick wall between you and the next meaningful update should be avoided if possible
Another issue for "Buy all unique Items" is that LP scale the favor cost. So a 4 LP item would cost more then a legendary and GENERALLY its the low level items that get more LP and are fun to mess around with. I think some way to increase favor gains would be nice - perhaps if an item doesn't sell in 3-5 days, you are presented with an option to keep it or donate it to the merchant guild for favor.
Thank you for addressing the situation, Merchant's Guild needs some fine tuning, you gave descent change suggestion. I know this is first season/test season but i'ts a mess. Can't believe the rushers got LP4 for free. Those LP ranks should be like R9 Merchant and for both seller and buyer, so advantage can't be taken.
The rank and the layout are a big issue, but I'm sure it will be adressed in future updates. My main isue though is the no resell thing. I know it's useful to prevent tryhards and bots to influence the market but maybe a resell limit or loking reselling behind higher ranks would be a better compromise.
I think low level uniques are desirable for leveling a new character, but if you can't really buy or trade them until you reach about 50 to 60, you're only buying them with the intent to use them latter on a new character. It's kind of a double edge sword because some players want that option early and some don't care.
What I would do is merge ranks 7 and 8 with their 5 and 6 counterparts. That way at rank 5 you could buy any exalted and at rank 6 you can buy any unique with a certain amount of LP. On top of that I would split up the rank requirement to buy LP items based on the amount of LP that it has.. Maybe at Rank 6 you could buy any Unique with up to 2LP, Then rank 7 you could buy 3 LP and rank 8 you could buy 4 LP.. They could potentially make 4LP uniques be a rank 10 thing and then bring the legendaries down to rank 8 and 9 instead of 9 and 10 that way you get access to the lower quality legendaries quicker than you'd be able to just buy 4LP uniques.
8:29 hoenstyly its mind blowing that so much good LP gear for burning through for bis gear could be so easily purchasded for "free" but it makes sense given how insanly high the req is to get the rank which suckssssssss but means easy fgarming for blaster lool. i know that noobs thought you had to SELL the items to get your reputation out of the favor, and whiel thats part of the problem I THINK THAT THE EXPONENTIALLY SCALING FAVOR COSTS TO EVEN LISTTTTTTTTTT HIGHER LP ITEMS IS VASTLY PROBLEMATIC GIVEN HOW MUCH PEOPLE ARE FOCUSED ON BUYING cheaper stuff but idk i just havent spent enough time in the system. might level my marksman in merchant from rank 1 and just see how nice it feels to buy cheap and early leveling gear and i get minimal favor
I think they should swift the ranks instead to buy all items when you reach that level, they should put sell. Them all faction can buy every thing giving demand to every high faction rank, and fix the price of item by demand. You possible can't buy the item because of cost, but make you gonna put more thing low in market to make more coins
I think the not being able to look up prices while listing like you said is the biggest hinderance to a thriving economy. Right now I'm taking the PoE dump stash approach. I dump everything on for a high price, here in a day or so I'll lower the price until it finds the market equilibrium. But I'd much rather be able to list and search at the same time. Something else to factor in is that we're less than a week into the cycle. So only (and I mean no offense here) try-hards are impacted by the price weirdness right now. Even the casuals that are looking for advanced gear already from a guide I would group up as try-hards in their own way. We can assume EHG did a bit of calculating to try to figure out the gearing curve. As in "by the time they start really needing (not just wanting) LP items, they've probably done this much content." I'm getting a vibe too that they intended for people to be spending their low rank favor on gambles. And that's why we're behind the curve a bit. But they didn't really make that clear. Even a line from the NPC saying something to effect of "Buy some gear and get some bonus reputation." Even if the "bonus" is there all the time, just less impactful at higher ranks. Some creative tweaking to the gamble rolls on the back end so you could buy mono-ready gear could be a strong incentive to go MG. I really want MG to be good. But there's a good chance I'm going to switch to CoF as soon as I find a replacement for the amulet I already bought.
CoF is just better right now imo. Especially if you know what you're doing. Also dump tabbing instead of manual pricing will be the most efficient pricing method for the entirety of this games lifespan. For every second that you are trying to price an item, you are losing time and therefore currency. Even if you lose a large % off the top while doing inefficient pricing, you make that up and some by spending zero time pricing items.
Thanks for the video McFluffin! Think you can do a "MG Guide" video for those in the dark? Because right now all I'm seeing is headless chiken behaviour from players and all the LE content creators are drooling over CoF.
They should make it so that you can buy anything from the get go, but at a really high favor cost x5-15 time the current cost, and make the tier upgrade drastically reduce those cost.
So, i would agree that in its current form, the MG rank system feels out of sorts and screws up the economy. It could use a bit of tweaking. Overall i like the system. I think we all agree the problem comes in around rank 7-8 (Exalted and Unique Items) I think one solution would be to allow up to LP1 on all uniques at Rank 6. This would help smooth out the economy issues, and its still a pretty big gamble at 25% to get a legendary with the affix you want. I get that allowing LP on some items can be very strong, but its all or nothing, and i don’t think the nothing option worked well. COF seems to get LP options at rank 6, so i don’t think it would be game breaking. Then i would swap Rank 7 (buy all exalted items) with Rank 6 (buy Unique Weapons with LP2-3-4)
for real though! 15:05 i LOVE HOW MUCH OF AN INSANE EMERGENT MARKET THIS IS! but as people learn, as people engage, as people play for longer and get better nad get further everything will lever out BUT WE WILL PROBABLY SEE THIS EVERY CYCLE RESTART AND ITS AWSOME HAHAHA but for reallllllllllllllllll I HOPE BOTH FACTIONS RANK 8 SCALING CAN BE BROUGHT DOWN TO LV 80-85 INSTEAD CAUSE MANNNNNNNNN ITS BRUTAL
As a new player, I've not got to the stage of picking a faction. Looking at MG I think I'll be going with CoF. One thing I hate with it is the fact players can put what they want for the price. things like selling Crude Boots for 10,000,000 is just stupid. it would be better if the items had a fixed "range" price e.g. for crude boots, between 20 and 50 gold etc. Oh well. Can't remember which game had this sort of system but it was much better than "specify your own value".
I agree with you from my experience so far, I think so far the other guild is just better with the lenses, albeit you do need to grind. Hope they change it
I checked out Merchant's Guild right after i got it & immediately knew that i would be grinding it until after it got an overhaul. Nothing about it is good other than the fact that I can grind the levels right now.
Great video. I was hoping to see something related to trading from you. I was a bit concerned about trade. In comparison to CoF its mechanics and progression system seems less exciting. And from the reactions and opinions about trade prior to release I feared to only have a bunch for f people trading at all. But it seems like trading has its fanbase although. The economy is still a bit weird. All of the common uniques are sold for 0 gold. So it's good to spread the information that it's not necessary to gift away your items to gain rep and educate the community about the mechanics. Cheers mate
Favour is earned by earning exp not from killing monsters bro. But great video. I just made rank 9 too and it is a slog to get access to items you need when you need them.
Even if the demand were there, an auction house in an ARPG almost inevitably leads to a flood of worthless 95-98th percentile items and a handful of valuable 99-100th percentile rolls. I don't see this system working long-term. I want to believe it can, but I don't see it.
im playing smite took me like day 3 to start gearing for it and people are playing falc build destroying the map levelling quickly. hopefully there even out class balance more and reduce exp needed to rank the guild make me want to reroll into a falc speed build
I’m level 74 now and didn’t pick a faction when it first came up because I’d heard bad things about MG, and restrictive things about COF, but overall I’m leaning MG now if it needs levelling and if I’m gonna play longer term
It looks exactly like the PC they're giving away, but I couldn't see how to buy one on the starforged website. I just want the skin though =P@@Addicted2wowlulz
To be honest, they should just make the guild options permanent, then allow immediate access to full trade on the merchants guild side.. as it currently stands, there is absolutely no reason to ever choose merchants guild.. if they shorten the favor grind to allow casuals to have access to trade, then the entire thing becomes exploitable for easy swapping between guilds.... which honestly wouldnt be the end of the world either tbf.
i cant imagine people list items in error. i have to believe some people just want to help other players as well because some of the prices are fucking ridiculously expensive.
This all sounds like a Day 4 after launch of a game with server instability issues problem. If it's still this wonky in a week we can revisit it. I imagine the "superior" uniques with legendary potential will go up in price as more players start to reach them, but you also have to consider the possibility that uniques with low legendary potential may just not be valuable to most players. I mean if you've grinded the game so hard that you're up in the very high levels and very late stages of end-game you presumably aren't going to be thrilled to find a unique with 1 LP on it, let-alone buy one. Would you even invest an Exalted item into that 1 LP? The exalted item you would lose trying to get a stat you wanted on your 1 LP unique would probably be worth more than the unique at that point.
It's not about the value to the guy it drops for, it's about what the guy looking for it is willing to buy it for, problem is the fact that the point you'd be at to be able to buy a 1lp, you can afford a 2 - 3lp depending on the unique.
The game should explain things to players, without telling them to go look up posts on forums. We should be able to see what gives reputation. Right now, it only mentions kill and quest XP. As for casual players, though: First, they should be in CoF. Second, do they really *need* legendary gear until they're pushing hard content? Just wanting something doesn't mean you need it.
I think you get 2 rep for 1 favour even when you post items to bazaar so you doesn't need gambler. I tested CoF too and you get 2:1 ratio in most places too.
cheeeeeeeeeeeesr~~~ its so true and mannnnnnnnnnnnn even getting lv 85 on my starter in COF has taken me TWO WEEKS + and ik not even rank 6 in cof yet, finally got enoguh gear to swap to a build setup thats MERCHANT VIABLE but MANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN THE FACT THAT ITS NOT JUST RANKS BUT ALSO FACTOR FAVOR COST GRINDS TO BUY EVEN BASIC RARES OR ANYTHING? MANNNNNNNNNN THAT STUFF TAKES FOR EVER HAHAHA and people realyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy get farmed from the expensive stuff so atleast rank 3 is fine but getting lv armors takes sooooooooooooooo long
I am level 94 and what I see playing with my friends its looks like different drop tables for different class, what is droping offten for one class its not droping at all for another class, looking overall I understand that shouldn't be heppening like that as drop table are overall bit just saying what we seen up to this level
the leveling process is definitely awful, but the price of some items are crazy. no casual player has 100-300k of money to buy just 1 item, it's ridiculous.
I've been playing offline so IDK if it's offline only, but it seems like all your characters share faction rank. I haven't tried joining the other faction with another character as I'm a bit concerned it might affect all characters and I'd hate to lose the ranks.
You can join the other faction on another character. It will have it's own rank and won't affect the other faction. *However*, if you leave a faction you will lose ALL favor for that faction for all characters. But just not rank. So gamble away all your favor first to get some rep if you're going to do that.
It's even much worse. I'm in high lvl 90's and havent even unlocked factions because only mono's load screens don't lag and freeze. I really tryed to do campaign, but it just simply is not possible right now. Already feel im done with this character eventho I could probably do double or triple damage and be much stronger. Cause I used used what I found and havnt even unlocked all idol slots. Many people are probably in my position, especially in EU. Already lost interested in factions all together cause I can't access it. Probably will never touch it, seems to make a already easy game even easier.
i'm committing to MG in the hopes over the next week or so it will stabilise massively. But hey, game just launched, ill make my second char COF so meh
CoF is so strong that if they want a 50/50 split between CoF and trade i think they need to remove all rep grind, and make everything tradeable at like rank 3 or so.
I am a huge fan of trading in ARPGs, but they are making it wayyy to difficult. The grind is almost impossible for mid to casual gamers, and the setup is just annoying. Hopefully they improve it long term, but man does it feel gated to the point they really dont want you to trade, IN THE TRADE GUILD :(
Think I've fucked up big had 25k favor and 50 lego items in my stash put them all in auction for 0gp last night didn't make any gold but i thought i'd get favor back but it all sold and got no favour return i'ts confusing as shit and wish picked the other faction now
I have seen 3 polls asking which faction players want to play. In all 3 the Circle of Fortune had the most votes. So maybe part of the problem is people not picking up the Merchant Guild.
There is no point to rank 9 10 in merchant, no one is going to make a great legendary from things they find vs buying them. you cant sell a legendary if you bought the components. so ppl will just buy the base items and craft themselves. only trash legendries will be available also few things i think they should change when item is sold make it pop up which one , i hate digging through 20 pages of things i have selling to find the one item that sold. some way to see completed sales for easier price checks. a small favor cost to refresh item so it relists as a just listed a small favor cost to change price of something you already have listed. some affixs are annoying to search for. like percent health is under as vigor for example. sometimes hard to find right affix when you have multiple affix you should be able to set tier range for them individually not as a group. nec res 7 and nec damage 5. not just flat tier for both. when searching idols say health for example. you cant search by percent of the tier. if it rolls from 3-8 percent health. you cant search only for 9 percent . you have to slog through dozens of pages looking for the 9s
He's talking about casual and average player which makes up like 95% of the game community. The rest of the 5% players who can play 16 hour a day and have no job and reach max level in couple of days aren't the problem.
@@richardkim3652 that doesn't really matter. This is a character that isn't even at max level and has not likely pushed into empowered monoliths. Why does it make sense for that character to need end game gear at that point? With the difficulty as it is now, it is trivial to push to empowered monoliths with the same gear you have on at the end of the campaign without any difficulty at all. A level 80 characters does not need to buy LP uniques.
@@mistakai4226 You're missing the point. He's saying that most players won't even reach trading unique or legendary gears because majority of them would just quit the game and move on with another game like they do with every other game. They will never see the trading system and that by in design is a bad game design.
@@richardkim3652 I disagree. Simply because it takes longer than the attention span of an average gamer to progress does not make it a bad design. The time to progress does not need to be shortened and it is completely fine that this system is an endgame progression route. It adds a much needed structure to progressing through monoliths which feels much better than what we had in early access.
MG is bad as it currently stands. It takes way too long for trade to come online for it to be worth it for most players. All these insane restrictions are killing trade.
I knew this system would suck at launch. They put way too many barriers to trade. Trade needs to be open and free. If I get a drop that I don't need but know someone else will want, there should be no barrier to me trading with that person. That's what I love about D2 and PoE. Wheeling and dealing is one of the most fun parts of RPG's like this. Hopefully they fix it. I'm running with CoF until they open up trading more.
The system is fine, it just needs some adjustments on when it comes into play, and for average people to actually understand it, and maybe a bit of streamlining. The hardest part to adjust for them is the last one, most of the problems could be fixed in a few days.
Yeah, i mean thats where opinons diveret. For me, i hate the fact that Poe is balanced around trade. If i want to play a trading simulatur i would do that... so i love the system they put in and i can run CoF and will never be bother by trade❤
Interesting that you agree with a video that explains that "the MG is pretty good already and can be made better with a few tweaks" with "the MG is quite bad". Sounds more like you disagree. 😉
So MG is basically a joke. Why even grind for items is you can just buy them all for 5k gold in the market? How does that not ruin the fun for you? If you aren't CoF, you're aren't serious about ARPG's.
Its called "Bazaar" but they have different venders for different items. Some one should tell EHG what the definition of a Bazaar is and fix this silly problem. Spoiler: Bazaar means "where many kinds of goods are sold", Key words being many kinds.
Right, so you go the bazaar (the area is a bazaar, a specific merchant isn't a bazaar), in which you can find many vendors which sell many kinds of goods. They've got nothing wrong definition-wise. The issue is the trading experience for the seller is kind of atrocious.
A bazar irl isn't just one vendor tho ... It's a place where a bunch of sellers to sell their goods in an open space ... Basically a flea market type thing or mall So the bazar is exactly what it's advertised
Nah, this is just a whining session by people that play 23h/day that can't sell ahead the market. If the gear that make the build works can be farmed easily then no need for efficient trade.
Update: After working with the devs, we now know there's a minor bug when listing an item that puts the favor gain behind by 1 listing. Meaning if you list an item, you won't see the favor gain until you list another or change zones. This also threw us off on the rep gain for listing an item. It's actually also 2 times the favor spent just like the gambler. So you can spend your favor on either the gambler or listing/buying items and get the same reputation back.
Simple fix on the “what’s an item worth” would just be to have the average MG sale value come up when you hover over the item while you’re aligned with the MG
That would probably do for uniques but for rares/exalted? Letting servers price-check every item that way is so expensive I imagine.
Min / Max / Mean maybe. Solely Avg isn't great.
@@Syncopation24Id be happy with a sort by alpha so i can see all the prices at once
@@Syncopation24 Sounds good to me, average was just what I thought up on the spot as a better than nothing option
That's an expensive database call (select item, average(cost) from auctions group by item) for every item looted by every player in the faction. If you want something like a trimmed mean it would be even worse.
I joined the Merchant guild and left almost immediately after seeing how obtuse it is, the COF feels way more rewarding.
i think COF is more rewarding at the beginning of a cycle but after a couple of week its gonna change. RNG still RNG even with the high drop rate from COF you might grind the entire cycle for an item you wont find but can buy it for 200-250k in a week or two with MG.
I started on COF and after 80 hours created a second toon on Merchants Guild and am way happier. MG definitely has a couple of implementation issues and certainly can be a time suck, but you eventually can gear every toon you own to your heart’s desire. Thereby enhancing replayability. With COF I have to set up filters for every possible class/specialization I might play in order store gear I find on the first toon, etc. Otherwise you will still have very very long gear grinds. COF just doesn’t solve the problem of still needing to refarm echoes for boss drops. Sure you may get more LP. But the drop rates remain. Some of these items are just available on MG (and cheap). Which accelerates development.
This thumbnail changed my life, got my wife pregnant, and made me a billionaire. Thank you so much McFluffin for this amazing thumbnail.
Did the thumbnail change? I don’t see anything too special from the current one.
damn this thumbnail looks incredible, great job!!! i can tell you worked long and hard on it
You can list the items where you can buy them. On the right is an option to list items. But beeing able to actually search for the item name would be great.
Im already lvl 7 in merchant guild,but i still can’t sell any of the items on the auction house,any ideas why ? Feel like its bugged but only for me,so annoying,i can buy items though
Did discuss unique affix filtering not working, and a host of other missing/broken bazaar functions. Looking for a unique with certain level of affixes and there are 500 'pages' x 20 items per page, and no filtering for those affixes.. good luck and that's for 1 item/slot
Learnt more about the thumbnail editing!
Trade friction is by design. They want people to build their own gear, and grudgingly added trade. Adding the rep grind is inline with that thinking and is way better than not having trading at all.
They even retracted it a bit by letting you sell without a rank (just need rank to buy)
You're talking nonsense. The trade guild was a considerable development investment and they want people who like trading to use it. It will clearly be updated over the coming patches.
@@phrozenliquidz Trade is still very hamstrung in LE. For instance, you can't resell at all. Which kills not only flipping, but also manufacturing and recycling i.e. buying something as a base and then improving it via crafting and later reselling it, as well as selling off your old gear once you've upgraded. It's pretty clear they're extremely nervous about truly free trade.
@@ArawnOfAnnwnSounds good to me. Flipping and reselling is 99% bots scouring and instant buying stuff. Selling of your old gear oversaturates the market making ground loot useless. Crafting is quite deterministic and simple in this game so buying a base and then improving it to resell isn't really a thing because there is no hidden knowledge.
@@mariosteyskal5897 So where did you get that figure from? Cue Senator Armstrong meme. In any case my point still stands - you may personally like it, but it still demonstrates that they are nervous about having an open trade system. Which means they haven't solved the ARPG trade debacle, they've just implemented a highly limited version of it like every other ARPG on the market save PoE. Diablo 3 was right, and remains right even a decade later. Auction houses still don't work, and LE doesn't prove otherwise. Despite all the players complaints.
What might help is an interim step. A daily token that allows "X number of trades" for very high level items.
Until you reach the level where that level is completely open for you to trade as much as you like
So you really need that one legendary that isn't dropping, and it's going to take 2 weeks of your spare time playing the extra 30 hours to get to the point where you can trade for it.
Every day, or every 5 hours of play time or whatever, you earn a trade token that you can use to buy or sell ONE ITEM of any level.
Interim achievable targets that keep you focussed are vital in looter games. Having regular updates, then a brick wall between you and the next meaningful update should be avoided if possible
Another issue for "Buy all unique Items" is that LP scale the favor cost. So a 4 LP item would cost more then a legendary and GENERALLY its the low level items that get more LP and are fun to mess around with. I think some way to increase favor gains would be nice - perhaps if an item doesn't sell in 3-5 days, you are presented with an option to keep it or donate it to the merchant guild for favor.
Thank you for addressing the situation, Merchant's Guild needs some fine tuning, you gave descent change suggestion. I know this is first season/test season but i'ts a mess. Can't believe the rushers got LP4 for free. Those LP ranks should be like R9 Merchant and for both seller and buyer, so advantage can't be taken.
The rank and the layout are a big issue, but I'm sure it will be adressed in future updates. My main isue though is the no resell thing. I know it's useful to prevent tryhards and bots to influence the market but maybe a resell limit or loking reselling behind higher ranks would be a better compromise.
I think low level uniques are desirable for leveling a new character, but if you can't really buy or trade them until you reach about 50 to 60, you're only buying them with the intent to use them latter on a new character. It's kind of a double edge sword because some players want that option early and some don't care.
What I would do is merge ranks 7 and 8 with their 5 and 6 counterparts. That way at rank 5 you could buy any exalted and at rank 6 you can buy any unique with a certain amount of LP. On top of that I would split up the rank requirement to buy LP items based on the amount of LP that it has.. Maybe at Rank 6 you could buy any Unique with up to 2LP, Then rank 7 you could buy 3 LP and rank 8 you could buy 4 LP.. They could potentially make 4LP uniques be a rank 10 thing and then bring the legendaries down to rank 8 and 9 instead of 9 and 10 that way you get access to the lower quality legendaries quicker than you'd be able to just buy 4LP uniques.
8:29 hoenstyly its mind blowing that so much good LP gear for burning through for bis gear could be so easily purchasded for "free" but it makes sense given how insanly high the req is to get the rank which suckssssssss but means easy fgarming for blaster lool. i know that noobs thought you had to SELL the items to get your reputation out of the favor, and whiel thats part of the problem I THINK THAT THE EXPONENTIALLY SCALING FAVOR COSTS TO EVEN LISTTTTTTTTTT HIGHER LP ITEMS IS VASTLY PROBLEMATIC GIVEN HOW MUCH PEOPLE ARE FOCUSED ON BUYING cheaper stuff but idk i just havent spent enough time in the system. might level my marksman in merchant from rank 1 and just see how nice it feels to buy cheap and early leveling gear and i get minimal favor
My theory is that making players run between vendors is an attempt at a subtle way to rate limit players in order to reduce load.
It’s not. The guild factions were designed long before the release of 1.0 they had no idea about the server issue then
Let us know if you come up with a good universal Merchant Guild loot filter, to encompass all the high value items for popular builds etc.
I think they should swift the ranks instead to buy all items when you reach that level, they should put sell. Them all faction can buy every thing giving demand to every high faction rank, and fix the price of item by demand. You possible can't buy the item because of cost, but make you gonna put more thing low in market to make more coins
I think the not being able to look up prices while listing like you said is the biggest hinderance to a thriving economy. Right now I'm taking the PoE dump stash approach. I dump everything on for a high price, here in a day or so I'll lower the price until it finds the market equilibrium. But I'd much rather be able to list and search at the same time.
Something else to factor in is that we're less than a week into the cycle. So only (and I mean no offense here) try-hards are impacted by the price weirdness right now. Even the casuals that are looking for advanced gear already from a guide I would group up as try-hards in their own way. We can assume EHG did a bit of calculating to try to figure out the gearing curve. As in "by the time they start really needing (not just wanting) LP items, they've probably done this much content."
I'm getting a vibe too that they intended for people to be spending their low rank favor on gambles. And that's why we're behind the curve a bit. But they didn't really make that clear. Even a line from the NPC saying something to effect of "Buy some gear and get some bonus reputation." Even if the "bonus" is there all the time, just less impactful at higher ranks. Some creative tweaking to the gamble rolls on the back end so you could buy mono-ready gear could be a strong incentive to go MG.
I really want MG to be good. But there's a good chance I'm going to switch to CoF as soon as I find a replacement for the amulet I already bought.
CoF is just better right now imo. Especially if you know what you're doing.
Also dump tabbing instead of manual pricing will be the most efficient pricing method for the entirety of this games lifespan. For every second that you are trying to price an item, you are losing time and therefore currency. Even if you lose a large % off the top while doing inefficient pricing, you make that up and some by spending zero time pricing items.
Thanks for the video McFluffin! Think you can do a "MG Guide" video for those in the dark? Because right now all I'm seeing is headless chiken behaviour from players and all the LE content creators are drooling over CoF.
Is there a trade limit? Because if there is, that's literally why they are listing for basically free, so they can free up slots and grind faster.
what build is this with nets ?
They should make it so that you can buy anything from the get go, but at a really high favor cost x5-15 time the current cost, and make the tier upgrade drastically reduce those cost.
So, i would agree that in its current form, the MG rank system feels out of sorts and screws up the economy. It could use a bit of tweaking. Overall i like the system. I think we all agree the problem comes in around rank 7-8 (Exalted and Unique Items)
I think one solution would be to allow up to LP1 on all uniques at Rank 6. This would help smooth out the economy issues, and its still a pretty big gamble at 25% to get a legendary with the affix you want. I get that allowing LP on some items can be very strong, but its all or nothing, and i don’t think the nothing option worked well. COF seems to get LP options at rank 6, so i don’t think it would be game breaking.
Then i would swap Rank 7 (buy all exalted items) with Rank 6 (buy Unique Weapons with LP2-3-4)
for real though! 15:05 i LOVE HOW MUCH OF AN INSANE EMERGENT MARKET THIS IS! but as people learn, as people engage, as people play for longer and get better nad get further everything will lever out BUT WE WILL PROBABLY SEE THIS EVERY CYCLE RESTART AND ITS AWSOME HAHAHA but for reallllllllllllllllll I HOPE BOTH FACTIONS RANK 8 SCALING CAN BE BROUGHT DOWN TO LV 80-85 INSTEAD CAUSE MANNNNNNNNN ITS BRUTAL
As a new player, I've not got to the stage of picking a faction. Looking at MG I think I'll be going with CoF. One thing I hate with it is the fact players can put what they want for the price. things like selling Crude Boots for 10,000,000 is just stupid. it would be better if the items had a fixed "range" price e.g. for crude boots, between 20 and 50 gold etc. Oh well. Can't remember which game had this sort of system but it was much better than "specify your own value".
Id love to know what the build is 😮
You buy that case?
I agree with you from my experience so far, I think so far the other guild is just better with the lenses, albeit you do need to grind. Hope they change it
I checked out Merchant's Guild right after i got it & immediately knew that i would be grinding it until after it got an overhaul. Nothing about it is good other than the fact that I can grind the levels right now.
Great video. I was hoping to see something related to trading from you.
I was a bit concerned about trade. In comparison to CoF its mechanics and progression system seems less exciting. And from the reactions and opinions about trade prior to release I feared to only have a bunch for f people trading at all.
But it seems like trading has its fanbase although. The economy is still a bit weird. All of the common uniques are sold for 0 gold.
So it's good to spread the information that it's not necessary to gift away your items to gain rep and educate the community about the mechanics.
Cheers mate
imho they should add 1lp uniques to rank 5 , 2lp uniques to rank 6 and leave 3/4lp for rank 8+
Favour is earned by earning exp not from killing monsters bro. But great video. I just made rank 9 too and it is a slog to get access to items you need when you need them.
Even if the demand were there, an auction house in an ARPG almost inevitably leads to a flood of worthless 95-98th percentile items and a handful of valuable 99-100th percentile rolls.
I don't see this system working long-term. I want to believe it can, but I don't see it.
im playing smite took me like day 3 to start gearing for it and people are playing falc build destroying the map levelling quickly. hopefully there even out class balance more and reduce exp needed to rank the guild make me want to reroll into a falc speed build
I’m level 74 now and didn’t pick a faction when it first came up because I’d heard bad things about MG, and restrictive things about COF, but overall I’m leaning MG now if it needs levelling and if I’m gonna play longer term
curious what you heard about COF being restrictive seems like it has gone over pretty well?
they still need to adjust the favor system on both takes to damn long to grind both out
Where do you get the Last Epoch PC sticker/skin??
Custom built pc i guess
It looks exactly like the PC they're giving away, but I couldn't see how to buy one on the starforged website. I just want the skin though =P@@Addicted2wowlulz
I truly hate "grinding" in order to trade. As a casual gamer, it will take me a loooong time to get to level 10. It's just stupid.
To be honest, they should just make the guild options permanent, then allow immediate access to full trade on the merchants guild side.. as it currently stands, there is absolutely no reason to ever choose merchants guild.. if they shorten the favor grind to allow casuals to have access to trade, then the entire thing becomes exploitable for easy swapping between guilds.... which honestly wouldnt be the end of the world either tbf.
I think the biggest thing you're forgetting is that the rep can be shared through alts right? and the games been out like a few days lol
I'm not forgetting that at all
i cant imagine people list items in error. i have to believe some people just want to help other players as well because some of the prices are fucking ridiculously expensive.
thumbnails for the algorithm!
This all sounds like a Day 4 after launch of a game with server instability issues problem. If it's still this wonky in a week we can revisit it.
I imagine the "superior" uniques with legendary potential will go up in price as more players start to reach them, but you also have to consider the possibility that uniques with low legendary potential may just not be valuable to most players. I mean if you've grinded the game so hard that you're up in the very high levels and very late stages of end-game you presumably aren't going to be thrilled to find a unique with 1 LP on it, let-alone buy one. Would you even invest an Exalted item into that 1 LP? The exalted item you would lose trying to get a stat you wanted on your 1 LP unique would probably be worth more than the unique at that point.
It's not about the value to the guy it drops for, it's about what the guy looking for it is willing to buy it for, problem is the fact that the point you'd be at to be able to buy a 1lp, you can afford a 2 - 3lp depending on the unique.
I'm hopeful that 3rd party markets will be limited because of the systems in place. I know they'll find a workaround but who knows..
The game should explain things to players, without telling them to go look up posts on forums. We should be able to see what gives reputation. Right now, it only mentions kill and quest XP.
As for casual players, though: First, they should be in CoF. Second, do they really *need* legendary gear until they're pushing hard content? Just wanting something doesn't mean you need it.
I think you get 2 rep for 1 favour even when you post items to bazaar so you doesn't need gambler. I tested CoF too and you get 2:1 ratio in most places too.
cheeeeeeeeeeeesr~~~ its so true and mannnnnnnnnnnnn even getting lv 85 on my starter in COF has taken me TWO WEEKS + and ik not even rank 6 in cof yet, finally got enoguh gear to swap to a build setup thats MERCHANT VIABLE but MANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN THE FACT THAT ITS NOT JUST RANKS BUT ALSO FACTOR FAVOR COST GRINDS TO BUY EVEN BASIC RARES OR ANYTHING? MANNNNNNNNNN THAT STUFF TAKES FOR EVER HAHAHA and people realyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy get farmed from the expensive stuff so atleast rank 3 is fine but getting lv armors takes sooooooooooooooo long
Great review. I hope they hear you 💯
much wow
Watching this video make me choose COF, i play like 4 hrs per day at most😅
I am level 94 and what I see playing with my friends its looks like different drop tables for different class, what is droping offten for one class its not droping at all for another class, looking overall I understand that shouldn't be heppening like that as drop table are overall bit just saying what we seen up to this level
the leveling process is definitely awful, but the price of some items are crazy. no casual player has 100-300k of money to buy just 1 item, it's ridiculous.
You get millions of gold running Monoliths
there are 0lp uniques on the market that arent hard to farm that sell for 200k min.
I've been playing offline so IDK if it's offline only, but it seems like all your characters share faction rank. I haven't tried joining the other faction with another character as I'm a bit concerned it might affect all characters and I'd hate to lose the ranks.
That's intentional ... Every faction is league wide and shared with other characters in the same faction
You can join the other faction on another character. It will have it's own rank and won't affect the other faction. *However*, if you leave a faction you will lose ALL favor for that faction for all characters. But just not rank. So gamble away all your favor first to get some rep if you're going to do that.
Do not join merchants guild in offline, lol.
It's even much worse. I'm in high lvl 90's and havent even unlocked factions because only mono's load screens don't lag and freeze. I really tryed to do campaign, but it just simply is not possible right now. Already feel im done with this character eventho I could probably do double or triple damage and be much stronger. Cause I used used what I found and havnt even unlocked all idol slots. Many people are probably in my position, especially in EU. Already lost interested in factions all together cause I can't access it. Probably will never touch it, seems to make a already easy game even easier.
i'm committing to MG in the hopes over the next week or so it will stabilise massively. But hey, game just launched, ill make my second char COF so meh
yep. it needs rework. right now it's too awkward to use
CoF is so strong that if they want a 50/50 split between CoF and trade i think they need to remove all rep grind, and make everything tradeable at like rank 3 or so.
but then what's keeping anyone at CoF when you can just trade everything, the grind needs to be fair for both sides
I am lv 9 and i just learned about the gamble npc LOL
Yeah, I picked the other faction
Ye no all of that is by design ... Even the "market inneficiency"
Which doesn't mean it can make it better and it isn't 100% perfect
I am a huge fan of trading in ARPGs, but they are making it wayyy to difficult. The grind is almost impossible for mid to casual gamers, and the setup is just annoying. Hopefully they improve it long term, but man does it feel gated to the point they really dont want you to trade, IN THE TRADE GUILD :(
goddamn, you played 45 hours in 3 days?!?! what's wrong with you
Think I've fucked up big had 25k favor and 50 lego items in my stash put them all in auction for 0gp last night didn't make any gold but i thought i'd get favor back but it all sold and got no favour return i'ts confusing as shit and wish picked the other faction now
now LE needs like awakened trade because price check is make spent waste our time.
I have seen 3 polls asking which faction players want to play. In all 3 the Circle of Fortune had the most votes. So maybe part of the problem is people not picking up the Merchant Guild.
There is no point to rank 9 10 in merchant, no one is going to make a great legendary from things they find vs buying them. you cant sell a legendary if you bought the components. so ppl will just buy the base items and craft themselves. only trash legendries will be available
also few things i think they should change
when item is sold make it pop up which one , i hate digging through 20 pages of things i have selling to find the one item that sold.
some way to see completed sales for easier price checks.
a small favor cost to refresh item so it relists as a just listed
a small favor cost to change price of something you already have listed.
some affixs are annoying to search for. like percent health is under as vigor for example. sometimes hard to find right affix
when you have multiple affix you should be able to set tier range for them individually not as a group. nec res 7 and nec damage 5. not just flat tier for both.
when searching idols say health for example. you cant search by percent of the tier. if it rolls from 3-8 percent health. you cant search only for 9 percent . you have to slog through dozens of pages looking for the 9s
You're nuts dude. Do you really think level 80 characters should be buying full endgame gear?
He's talking about casual and average player which makes up like 95% of the game community. The rest of the 5% players who can play 16 hour a day and have no job and reach max level in couple of days aren't the problem.
@@richardkim3652 that doesn't really matter. This is a character that isn't even at max level and has not likely pushed into empowered monoliths. Why does it make sense for that character to need end game gear at that point? With the difficulty as it is now, it is trivial to push to empowered monoliths with the same gear you have on at the end of the campaign without any difficulty at all. A level 80 characters does not need to buy LP uniques.
@@mistakai4226 You're missing the point. He's saying that most players won't even reach trading unique or legendary gears because majority of them would just quit the game and move on with another game like they do with every other game. They will never see the trading system and that by in design is a bad game design.
you know endgame is monolith, so basically after campaign? Lvl 80 is quite hard into endgame, around empowered monoliths
@@richardkim3652 I disagree. Simply because it takes longer than the attention span of an average gamer to progress does not make it a bad design. The time to progress does not need to be shortened and it is completely fine that this system is an endgame progression route. It adds a much needed structure to progressing through monoliths which feels much better than what we had in early access.
MG is bad as it currently stands. It takes way too long for trade to come online for it to be worth it for most players. All these insane restrictions are killing trade.
They already fixed the gambler. wasted my favor.
^^ This! Should update the video in that section to at least note it is no longer valid; luckily tested with a low favor item.
hitting 100 in LE is the easiest 100 in any ARPG ever made
who are you talking to? haha noone asked
I'm commenting on his "hitting 100 is aspirational" comment he made in the video which i thought was funny@@hucqhucq4200
I knew this system would suck at launch. They put way too many barriers to trade. Trade needs to be open and free. If I get a drop that I don't need but know someone else will want, there should be no barrier to me trading with that person. That's what I love about D2 and PoE. Wheeling and dealing is one of the most fun parts of RPG's like this. Hopefully they fix it. I'm running with CoF until they open up trading more.
The system is fine, it just needs some adjustments on when it comes into play, and for average people to actually understand it, and maybe a bit of streamlining.
The hardest part to adjust for them is the last one, most of the problems could be fixed in a few days.
Yeah, i mean thats where opinons diveret. For me, i hate the fact that Poe is balanced around trade. If i want to play a trading simulatur i would do that... so i love the system they put in and i can run CoF and will never be bother by trade❤
Promo>SM ✌️
turn the music off, jesus :S Jarring
100 percent agreed. Merchents guild is quite bad in its current state
Interesting that you agree with a video that explains that "the MG is pretty good already and can be made better with a few tweaks" with "the MG is quite bad". Sounds more like you disagree. 😉
@@EricKing they need to make it so I can open my inventory without closing the merchant interface. Price checking stuff is too painful right now
Nah bro, fortunes guild is way better. It’s the only way to get the best items in game.
I am casual, I dont want game to be easy
plz stop
Games like these just feels like your doing a job. Can't stand them
So MG is basically a joke. Why even grind for items is you can just buy them all for 5k gold in the market? How does that not ruin the fun for you?
If you aren't CoF, you're aren't serious about ARPG's.
Its called "Bazaar" but they have different venders for different items. Some one should tell EHG what the definition of a Bazaar is and fix this silly problem.
Spoiler: Bazaar means "where many kinds of goods are sold", Key words being many kinds.
Right, so you go the bazaar (the area is a bazaar, a specific merchant isn't a bazaar), in which you can find many vendors which sell many kinds of goods. They've got nothing wrong definition-wise.
The issue is the trading experience for the seller is kind of atrocious.
Bazaars typically sell many items from many different merchants. At least as far as lore goes it's fine.
A bazar irl isn't just one vendor tho ... It's a place where a bunch of sellers to sell their goods in an open space ... Basically a flea market type thing or mall
So the bazar is exactly what it's advertised
Nah, this is just a whining session by people that play 23h/day that can't sell ahead the market.
If the gear that make the build works can be farmed easily then no need for efficient trade.
Game is dead already.
with 234k players lol..stfu...