Doctor Who: Survivors of the Flux Review (Ups & Downs)
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- Well… we guess it’s time to talk about THAT reveal from last season again. Oh boy.
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I don’t understand how people think the Tardis at UNIT was the 3rd doctors. They literally say it was found in the village the angels were at and it looks exactly like 13s!!
I am not super familiar with Old Who, but one of the few episodes of Old Who I saw was the 3rd Doctor's first episode, and that TARDIS and room just looks too much like part of that episode for me personally to feel otherwise. The year/timing even makes sense imo.
@@VeryTori that’s a fair point ! But they do explain in the episode where the Tardis is from (Medderton)
I didn't even understand what people were talking about when they said that the 3rd doctor's TARDIS was found. BTW, I 100% agree with you Tyler Hopkins.
That’s not Jon Pertwee’s tardis, they found it in the village from the previous Angel’s episode.
you're so right - I feel silly now! caught up in the excitement!
Glad I wasn’t the only one who thought that
Yeah. I was half excited by fact might be pertwees. Cause of date. But then said the village and was like. Ohhh...
Also if it's the 50s wouldn't it be Troughton?
The sign on the door being black with white text makes that obvious in hindsite
The plot of this season is like the ramblings of a mad man, making up a story as he tells it, with no direction or end goal.
The shouty new corporal is Lethbridge-Stewart. You can even hear Nicholas Courtney's voice in the background. They credit him at the end of the episode.
But he shouldn't be a corporal. He was a Colonel before U.N.I.T.
@@johnsensebe3153 Yeah, my understanding is, whilst NCO's can study to become commissioned officers, reaching Brigadier General rank is going to be almost impossible. Furthermore, with a name like Alistair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart, with such a plummy accent and with a fairly recent antecedent who'd achieved Captain at least; there's no way he'd ever been an NCO.
I loved part of Kate's threat: "I'll call in a favour from someone you don't want on the wrong side of" - or something to that effect.
And I completely agree with the down for the explanation of Division. That is far far to big to have gone unnoticed by the Doctor before. And far to much power for one Timelord.
Also, forgot to mention, Dan knew who that tunnel guy was when he walked into their cabin, since he is an history buff, and that gave them a new lead to get home.
Just a note....... I want to know who lite the candle in the Mexican tomb. It was burning when they arrived........... A mystical candle or a continuity error. Not big issue, but it's going to grind my gears for years. BUT loved the whole episode and no complaints.
Lol that was the first thing I noticed too
one of those prank relighting candles, you can't get rid of them
Also Jericho instantly grows a beard during the painting scene
It's the same magic candles used in many tombs you see on TV that are inexplicably alight...
I quite liked the idea that they were hiding between universes because that then explains why they’ve never been brought up or found before.
But wouldn't their interventions be noticed? Even if their base wasn't
@@Ianto42 The doctors probably crossed paths with one before but just brushed it off as just another species causing trouble.
What I don’t get is the fact the doctor has been in the universe now for almost 3000 years and has never gotten the slightest whiff of the division. But now all of a sudden in her 13th incarnation, simply because she and we the universe know about the division, they’re all of a sudden everywhere and decide to release the flux because the ‘virus’ (the Doctor) got away from division and infected the universe.
But like??? Why’s it taken 3000 years? Why are they only showing up now? If they wanted the universe to die why not just help the daleks out a little bit in journeys end, why not help any of the monsters that have been trying to wipe the universe out in the shows almost 60 year history? I don’t get it
I was under the impression that the TARDIS UNIT had found was Jodie's, considering the general said they'd found it in a small village in Devon where all the townspeople had vanished (setting of Village of the Angels).
You can SEE It's 13's. The window design, the black door plaque etc. Never any question of it being 3's, which to be Frank was staring to look battered and worn, as well as being a completely different shade of blue.
Yeah that would be right. Because the TARDIS got left behind in the Village.
@@peterward2275 Jo Martin, did, however, have the third doctor's TRDIS in Fugitive of the Judoon.
Agreed.
I can understand your feeling about the Division. But for older fans, it seems Chibnall just massaged the Celestial Intervention Agency which is mentioned in the Deadly Assassin and is a big part of Season 6B
Then why not call it that? This is obviously NOT the CIA, so that doesn't really scan.
Actually UNIT are funded by United Nations. Torchwood is the agency that are beyond the UN and can do whatever they want when it comes to extraterrestrial threats.
And that's not the third Doctor's Tardis. That's still Jodie's as the General said they found it in a village that they were turning into a military place. The village references the last episode when the poor thing was left there as Yaz and Dan were zapped to the past and the Doctor got Angelfied.
Indeed. The exiled 3rd Doctor didn't join UNIT until 1970, but the flashback takes place in 1967, shortly before the Brigadier, then a Colonel, meets the 2nd Doctor in The Web of Fear.
@@KingdomCooperFan wasn’t it the eighties
@@fortunate4260 3rd Doctor's era premiered in the early 70s and it's also safe to say that it took place in that period. The placing of Web of Fear in the timeline is more arguable, as the date of those events were never mentioned, but I think it's safe to say that they occurred around the mid-to-late 60s, with the events of The Invasion taking place around 1968.
@@fortunate4260 No, it was 1970 when the third Doctor premiered. His first episode was also the first color episode of Doctor Who.
@@soonerproud I Googled it, it’s a giant continuity error, those seasons took place in the eighties but later down the line the brigadier was confirmed to have retired in 76
I've been thinking about how to make Gallifrey not interfering with time make sense with the Division. Maybe that was a Gallifreyan law set in place so that random Gallifreyans don't go back in time and undo any changes the Division had already done. I mean think about it, not all Gallifreyans are a part of Division, and any one of them could steal a TARDIS. If time manipulation is outlawed, less people are going to attempt it, allowing the Division to do whatever they please without interference.
Furthermore, since Division has the ability to time travel, if anyone finds out about them, they can simply go back in time and stop them from finding out or manipulate time to some degree. It's been established that they're guiding time, so why can't they just guide time in a way where nobody knows they exist?
Sounds like a whole lot of time paradoxes😅😅.
One issue I have with division is if they have so much control why has the universe been going to crap for so long?
Where were they when Davros stole the 27 planets, why did they let the time war occur, were they the ones who sent the former 4th doctor to Skaro in Genesis?
I dunno man, I'd hate to be causal watching this episode, I think your head would explode😂😂
@@5thar Maybe because they just don't care. Perhaps they only cared about controlling certain parts of the universe when it benefitted them. And it's also possible they knew that whatever serious issues would happen in the universe, Division wouldn't have to worry about it because the Doctor would just "do the dirty work" by fixing it for them.
But then again... this could just be Chibnall's writing being its usual self.
@@eliesh3833 Ya it feels more likely to just be Chris bring Chris......
If the Time Lords have thousands of Tardis's, why aren't Time Lords constantly using them to travel throughout all of space and time? The Doctor should run across another Time Lord and Tardis, it is inevitable.
@@CCFONESOL Well the idea was the time war got rid of pretty much anything with time-travel tech and in the classic series the timelords had rules(plus he actually did used to run into them from time to time).
But now.....who friggin knows lol
the TARDIS in the general's office was Jodie's, not Pertwee's, he even said it was found in the village (of the Angels). also, 3 didn't join UNIT until 1970.
and Division had been in Doctor Who lore before, but they've changed the name. they used to be the Celestial Intervention Agency (CIA). I do get why they didn't/couldn't use that, but Division has been around for while.
One thing you did miss/only briefly mentioned is the shouty corporal was actually Alistair Gordon Lethbridge Stewart
I'm really liking these serialised season. Takes me back to original Who. Keeps you engaged in the story, and allows you to tell stories with greater depth. Have to give Chibs a 1 up for that. Agreed with the whole cliffhanger. But again, takes me back to original Who, when the Doctor was facing death, but you know he would be back next week. I'm really liking this season. I just hope the last episode pays off, otherwise it would have been all for nothing.
The man is a hack.
You do know that Kate and Osgood were mentioned as a link in to the new UNIT audio adventures from Big Finish, right?
Also: 13's TARDIS. You can tell from the design features and where they stated in the episode that they got it from (pay attention!).
Question: why didn't they get Jon Culshaw to do The Brig as an unseen voice of the brigadier instead of random shoutiness from that office?
And finally, a big DOWN from me on the almost throwaway resolution to the previous weeks cliffhanger of The Doctor being 'Angelised'.
They literally got an audio recording of Nicholas Courtney from Terror of the Autons Part 4. It wasn't random shoutiness. It was the man himself!
@@doctormew9399 oh! 😄 they could have used a clearer clip from the hundreds they have access to!
@@peterward2275 That's true, I suppose. Still, I got pretty excited when I learned it was his actual voice!
I love your channel because you get straight down to business without rambling preamble. Keep up the great work.
Theory with the pocket watch holding the memories of the Doctor.
With the universe collapsing in on itself. The Doctor said it can be expanded back out pre-flux. And the centrepoint is Earth.
So on Earth my theory is the Doctor using the energy from the watch at the center point to expand the universe back out at the sacrifice of all her previous lives.
And she comes to realize that it doesn't matter who you have been, but who you are now that matters.
Rebooting the universe for a second time.
Sorry but thats 13's tardis, not Pertwee's, they even say they got it from the village outside the church from the last episode. Mandip said in a interview the other week that she wants to keep going and yaz is left in position to do that, apparently so is dan. Mandip say's she is just waiting for the call from RTD and hopes she gets one. I love mandip and i would love for her to stay.
As for the episode i did enjoy it, not as much as last weeks but still good. Pacing for me was off, the seer i think is obv a timelord, the way he acts. Like the one in Planet of the Spiders. I think most of the Who community figured out what division was and who the woman was a while ago, and thats what reduced the impact of the reveal for me. Now i have seen a lot of theories about the Division in classic who which make sense ie. The Vogans in Revenge of the Cybermen were division, hence the use of the seal of rassilion. Nice to see the return of the Sontarans i wasn't expecting that.
I was wondering that as well - if the Seer is a past (or future) regeneration of K'anpo from Planet of the Spiders.
Pretty sure that wasn’t pertwee’s Tardis as they said it was found in a Devon village where everyone disappeared - so that would be 13’s tardis - and the corporal is the Brigadier.
I agree, they even said about turning the village into a military base which was mentioned the week before
Totally you're right r.e. the TARDIS - now I did wonder about the Corporal being the Brigadier...hmm...I may have erred on this one this week!
@@sean.ferrick think they used some of his lines from an old episode - keep up the great reviews tho - loving them
So @WhoCulture How on earth did Yazz and Co. get away from the villange of the Angels. They were on a place that was quantum extracted... just floating around in what seemed like open space. So now, how did they get back to earth? That's has to be a down!
Agree. I'm really surprised that it wasn't mentioned.
I liked the seer. Other than that, I agreed with the assessment.
I'm glad we finally got to know that mysterious guy's name, and what those tunnels were about.
All the cliffhangers are nods to Classic Who where each part would always end on a Cliffhanger and an episode was divided usually into 4 - 6 parts.
The whole season of specials is a clever nod to the Classic Era of Doctor Who. So to me, the cliffhangers have always been an up to me.
It’s easier to mistake Whitaker’s TARDIS exterior for a typical classic TARDIS exterior because for the first time in the modern show, the exterior finally brings back some classic features such as the indentation on either side of the “police public call box” sign, and a different color “pull to open” sign (besides white text on a black background in the classic series, we also saw white text on a BLUE background for the small door sign in doctors 5-7). Since 2005 the door sign has been all white with black text, and the “police public call box” sign had margins reaching all the way out to the edge of the little extrusion it sits on. Oh, and not to mention, the blue lantern at the top of the TARDIS. I appreciate the fact that even the interior gets a somewhat “classic” treatment as well at least in the sense that this is the first TARDIS interior (chronologically) since before 1996 to have a time-rotor that doesn’t reach all the way up to the ceiling. Ironically though, I personally won’t miss the crystalline TARDIS design, I find a lot of the design choices rather obnoxious, and it just doesn’t work for me personally, but I can appreciate all the details here and there that call back to classic versions of the famous time machine. So yeah, given the fact that her exterior is clearly more distinguishable from all other modern exteriors, it’s FAR too dark a shade of blue (actually in this case, teal or almost completely green) for it to be anything close to a pertwee police box. I would have loved to see a nod to Pertwee or Troughton especially considering the timeline, but eh ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I’ve stopped holding my breath with 100% of Chibnall-era writing.
Honestly, I missed the Devon line on my first watch and I thought it was a classic TARDIS until I hopped on Twitter! Excellent observations good sir.
makes me wonder if the two Timelords that punished the Second Doctor at the end of the War Games were part of Division to get The Doctor out of the way
'are you from Liverpool? You've never mentioned it' That's Dan in a nutshell
... as if he could have been from anywhere else, with that incredibly strong Scouse accent!
@@ftumschk yeah, but a bit more of a fleshed out character rather than everything revolving around where he's from would have been good
The ending kind of reminded me of classic who episode endings, there was always a character in peril in each cliffhanger
Definitely, and it was often The Doctor. No one grumbled that 'the main character can't die' back then. We felt the threat and took it through to the following week.
No way 🥺 none of these messed up episode's are any where near classic Who.
@@rrstows3522 oh no, I agree! Just the cliffhanger ending was reminiscent slightly, I’d never insult old who like that 😂
I didn't like the reveal that TTC was true.
Same
TTC?
@@DanBen07 (The Timeless Child)
@@Drp_br_ Oh understood.
Well if it’s anything like last week’s cliffhanger the Doctor will just step into another part of the story and continue on unaffected.
Super Easy, Barely An Inconvenience
Unless I'm mistaken, "Division" interfering in time contradicts the already established "Celestial Intervention Agency", who did pretty much the same thing, and called upon Tom Baker's Doctor more than once to help out. Are we expected to believe Time Lord society had TWO "secret order" organisations that never encountered each other, even once, while both "fixing" things throughout all of time and space?!
Too be fair. Jericho is old, really does not make sense for him to try and hide under the bed fast. Also Yaz is in period clothes, kinda hard to conceal under the bed. And if someone was checking tickets earlier, as they said, they may find it odd an old man and women turned into 2 guys or a younger-ish guy and a women.
Sometimes I feel like you guys don’t use logic when giving point up or down.
I feel like most ups are just callbacks
My down this week was the lighting. Why were there lit candles in the ... tomb? Why were there SO many lanterns in the tunnels? Why was Dan worried about running out of oil, whilst carrying a lantern through a passageway clearly overlit with lanterns?
at first i had the same thought, how can you hide something as big as the division? and at the same time i thought this: if division it's a job you can never leave (if you do they will hunt you down) and they can wipe people's memories... it's not impossible to hide. complex, yes. but not impossible.
besides, the division started as time lords only BUT not all time lords knew about the division (like the master). the master himself said that they've been lying all along. time lords love power and control, so it doesn't surprise me that they came up with something as ambitious as the division.
idk it's a little tricky but it's not complete nonsense either. or maybe i'm just thinking this a little too much lol.
I’m pretty sure the tardis that was at UNIT was 13’s tardis…
It clearly was from the distinctive design features, particularly the windows.
@@peterward2275 oh my bad, I just thought it was 13’s because I thought I heard that guy say that it was found in the village from episode 4
That’s 13’s TARDIS. Not 3’s. Pertwee’s TARDIS had the black writing on white background, not white on black.
My thoughts. When Baker was sent against the Daleks with Harry and Sarah-Jane, the Dr. tells the guy he's out. It doesn't matter what he's done for them before. The idea of "Division" has been going on since then. The size of it is my issue. A group of renegades doing things behind the scenes is sensible - but so big it brings in other races knowingly? I'm still wondering if the timeless child is a ruse to confuse and control the doctor. I can see regenerations before Pertwee. All we see him do is fall out with the 2nd Drs clothes, and it explains the Brains of Morbius - between 2 and 3 were other incarnations that worked for the time lord's. Could be why 3 disliked 2 so much, it wasn't just their temperaments but a deep hatred of what he did similar to 10 and 11s aversion to the War Doctor. I can agree with Flynn as Tecteune. I rank her performance with Dr. UNA and like him it'd be nice to see more back story.
I thought the shouty colonel was an Easter Egg referring to Kate's Father joining UNIT.
I think division works with they being a secret shadows organization. Like you said it was their torchwood. If you remember TW was set up in the 19th century until their fall in the 2010s. So that means that they were always in the background during all the Doctors adventures that happened during that period of earth but we never saw them until the 10th doctor . The same can be said with division was always there but we as the audience never saw. There are thing in classic who that could be interpreted as division like the vogans having the seal of rassilon.
Also like the call back to the war machines when the general was talking to the serpent king. I wish they had say and also that airport business.
If that fob watch does belong to the doctor then by opening it, she will revert back to the character from before William Hartnell because that's how the watch works. It rewrites time lord dna. It wont just give her the memories back or 10 would still be John Smith but with the Doctors memories.
Maybe that's how she will regenerate. We haven't met this pre Hartnell Doctor, and subsequent regenerations can still go in a different direction
@@keithhamilton2040 going from the trailer for next week, the watch gets opened but 13 doesn't regenerate until her last special next year. I have a feeling that it'll just give her the memories back and that's it, which isn't what the chameleon arch is meant to do
@@keithhamilton2040 imagine the next regeneration as a darker doctor like the valeyard and the he has to store the memories again
Chibnall destroyed DW, everything that ever happened is basically pointless because of how the division controlled everything. This episode made no sense
1. What the fuck was the point of the UNIT and companion storyline and weren't the companions trapped in that weeping angel place
2. Jodie turning into an angel was pointless and dumb, it was bait to watch the next episode
3. How did the dog guy realise what they were writing until they finished?
4. Why are the sontarons ruling over earth if the flux is gonna kill everyone anyways?
5. Nobody likes the timeless child, double down on it was the finishing blow on DW
6. Vinder is so fucking dumb, he knows hes no match for swarm and azure yet he spies on them and guess what's gonna happen, bel is gonna save vinder yay love arc complete and guess what they're the doctor's parents too and they sacrifice themselves for the doctor allowing her to regenerate in peace
The only good thing about series 11-13 is the master, returning aliens and characters (like captain jack) and evil dan memes
Worst era by far, filled with too much identity politics that they lost focus on the whole point of the show... Entertainment!
@@orangut4ng 7. Belle and Vinder will end up being the Doctors parents
This was bad. Simply bad.
The Grand Serpent comes out of nowhere to go from a bit player in Vinder's backstory to secretly having been manipulating the creation and development of UNIT over decades on Earth but just a short time for himself thanks to time travel. Garbage. The Grand Serpent heads a galactic empire, and we're to think he actually gets his hands dirty and does his own espionage work? Gtfo. Seeing the formation and eventual defunding of UNIT was cool in concept, but putting The Grand Serpent in that role was trash. The Master would have made sense there - or hell bring back the frigging Rani since we're going all kitchen sink this season - not this random guy with no connection to the show's past who's not even an interesting villain, just bland.
And then there's The Division. Of course The Division is the most powerful organization in the history of everything ever secretly manipulating and controlling the entire universe...and all the other universes...yawn. Where were they during The Time War? Did this originally Gallifreyan all-powerful entity run by a founding Time Lord just stop thinking their people and home planet were important? For a group that supposedly can secretly control everything from behind the scenes, why would they allow the Time War to rage on the way it did? And then to have Tecteun get dispatched in a totally anticlimactic fashion. The seemingly all-powerful head of an all-powerful organization goes down in an instant with no more resistance than weakly telling the Ravagers, "You're not supposed to be here." I mean the entire thing amounted to a giant exposition dump, a short bit of defiance from The Doctor, and then Tecteun getting dispatched unceremoniously. Terrible. Bad television. Bad writing and bad plotting. The only good to come from the entire Division storyline is setting up a truly proper multiverse for RTD to play with. Otherwise, rubbish.
And much like last week, I found Bel and Vinder's story to be a distraction and unnecessary interruption.
There were some good visuals, like the shot of the station in the void between universes. Dan, Yaz, and Jericho together were entertaining, and I would've liked to learn a bit about how they managed to make do for 3 years in the early 1900s. How did they get money? They don't have The Doctor. They had to pay for food, and clothing, and transportation for 3 years!! How?! They would've needed full time employment, like when Martha had to work in a shop when she and 10 were sent back in Blink and at least The Doctor was still with her, but Dan, Yaz, and Jericho are truly on their own and I would've liked to know how they managed that.
But yeah, this was so so so bad. 3/10
It's just a mess. Rubbish writing . Timeless child is rubbish . Why ? Because it makes all the Drs of the past nothing, because there implying that There have been millions of Drs just a blob entity
Some how, I don't believe the reveal that the Division was led by Tecteun and the woman leading the division was Tecteun was not that big a shock to fans. I think we've all suspected that since Episode three.
Tecteun said that leadership fell to her and that means she wasn’t the leader but someone how was high rank
@@TJS123 She may have been high ranking within Gallifreyan society. Last night the show more or less confirmed the Cartmel Masterplan and made a few slight alterations to it. They more or less confirmed that Tecteun was the Other; who founded Gallifreyan Society along side Rassilon and Omega.
Whether or not she began the division I have no idea. If she didn't then it was probably Rassilon who founded the division and put her in charge. But the fact that she was running the division really isn't a shock at this point.
@@josephcooter5763 I agree that it wasn’t that much of a surprise
Nothing is a surprise now, it's a mess
Exactly, as soon as she showed up on screen the first time I was like "that's the doctor's fake mom"
I really don't like how they do exposition lately
The Doctor will ask an obvious question, answer the obvious answer herself and then say "is that it?"
I really feel like I'm being handheld through simple concepts so often.
Good second to last episode. Looking forward to the finale. Shot of the ship between universes was awesome. Loved the reference to the war machines. Absolutely found the seer and karvanista’s time travel ramble hilarious.
No comment on the voice-over cameo of (Corporal) Alistair Gorgon Lethbridge-Stewart??
Plus, a few seconds later, the TARDIS seen is 13's. They say they found it in the village from last episode.
The voice-over was a "down" for me. No way could I imagine someone with the "officer-class" family background of Alistair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart being a mere Corporal, at least not in the 1950s, when the British class system was even more rampant than it is today. Even in the extremely unlikely event that he'd ever been a Corporal, he'd have to have risen impossibly quickly up the ranks to have been a Colonel by the time of "The Web of Fear". I found the whole idea so jarringly unbelievable that it pulled me out of the story.
Hey look, an Ood! LOVE an Ood!
Haha 😂 Ur profile
If it turns out the finale is bad, just remember RTD can retcon it in half an episode as an afterthought and proceed like nothing happened
One can only hope .got me out of this mess , should be her last words .
Found this episode quite poor. Chibnall is intent on concluding his rewriting of Who lore, when he had every opportunity to be more interesting, to play a curve ball and wrong foot the audience. Instead most "revelations" seem to have been telegraphed, such as the Doctor's "mother."
Flux is easily the best season of Jodie Whitaker’s run as the Doctor. For the first time it feels like the Doctor Who I know, love, and missed in the last two seasons.
Agreed.
Although things get a bit noticeably downhill in this episode. I hope the last episode will be better, but I have a feeling it will be worse.
@@eliesh3833 Even if it does, it will still be an improvement over the last two seasons, and it will be the last (or second to last if you count the special) episode before Chibnall’s run ends and we get Russel T. Davies back and a new Doctor.
Kate Stewart and Osgood ... and Tom Baker's Curator will all be in a new Big Finish audio series.
They make the Division sound like Section 31 from Star Trek
Should have ended the episode just before the death of Tecteun. It's a good way to put up the question of what will red vs blue do, and if they do still kill off Tecteun then you've got a strong opening.
I quite liked this episode, I think...
Haha you seem un certain 🤣
All the episodes have been good.
@@Ibalistic_hedge is it?
@@tobylerone4285 yep. Episode 3 was a bit confusing, but it was still good.
They've wanted to end every episode on a cliffhanger, and some of them have been good, but this episode was pushing it a bit.
For me it was a tiresome mess. Some potentially good ideas, but they were all truncated and smashed together at the cost of story and pace. The excessively expositional dialogue is unforgivable. At this point I'm enjoying, or more accurately enduring, the series the way I do working the last days at a terrible job.
I think you are too hard on Dan. He is still in his first adventure and while yes he has experienced a lot and I think his character makes a lot of sense. I think if he took control or lead it really wouldn't feel right.
How did Yaz, Dan and Jericho get out of the village? That was never explained. On the contrary, at the very beginning of the episode an Angel told Jodie that they were trapped. Next time we see them is them playing Indiana Jane.
"A torchwood of Gallifrey".... Sean... The Division is the freakin' Timelord Illuminati
This is a fairly 'obscure' down, but for me, the actual title of the episode should be given a down. It sounded exciting and cool 'Survivor of the Flux!' but the episode itself literally had nothing special to do with it? It was as if someone just came up with an exciting title and said 'that'll be great!' but then didn't read the script or watched what they filmed.
The biggest down here is the terrible writing of Chibnall. His consistent way of not concluding situations was frustrating. At the end of the last episode, the Professor, young kid, Yaz and Dan where trapped in an ever disappearing patch of land around the village with a kind of Neverending Story style Nothing eating everything up?!?!?! How did that resolve? HOW? So bloody annoying. That was a major event and now they're just globe trotting around the world in 1907 with no explanation!!! When did the Doctor give Yas that egg thing? We didn't see that happen did we? I don't remember it.
Also we now get told that the Doctor was probably from Universe 2, really? Where is the rest of the Division, it can't just solely be Tec Tauoone or however you spell it on this ship, surely there are thousands of people both Timelords and Aliens? It just doesn't make sense Chibnall! Given the size of the UNIVERSE! shown to the Doctor, she thinks it can all be uncompressed?! really? The Flux devoured and destroyed countless billions of galaxies and worlds, but somehow decompressing it will fix everything. Good god, its not even good science fiction theory. It's got a lot to do to land it next week..... I feel it is going to be a classic Chibnall lack of coherent explanation, big red button reset BS. The scope is just too big to conclude satisfactorily.
IF THEY WERE HIDING BETWEEN UNIVERSES ALL THIS TIME, WHY DIDNT DIVISION DO ANYTHING ABOUT THE DALEKS AND CYBERMEN FROM THE OTHER UNIVERSE?!!!! Plus isnt that next universe the one where Rose and the Meta Crisis Doctor are?
Would Division even care about some Daleks and Cybermen crossing universes though? It is not really clear what they even want...
As for Rose and Metacrisis, I thought about that too. I mean, in Revolution of the Daleks, Chibnall brute-forced a line into the script that reminded everyone that Rose still lives in another universe, and in the VERY NEXT story, inter-universe travel is reintroduced... Chibnall might actually be working towards some kind of Rose cameo^^
Oddly, the portrayal of Swarm reminds me of the portrayal of Victor Strand on this season of Fear The Walking Dead. They both have similar vibes in how their characters are being portrayed including how they move when they talk, and the way that they speak. Odd, not Ood, Odd.
I understand your "down" on the reveal of "Division" -- but, Gallifrey has had an activist role many times (prime example is sending Doctor 4 to Scaro to stop the Kaled's (Davros) from creating the Daleks).
"But do I have the right?"
Really I liked the guru guy actually found it amusing I was surprised this is what doctor who is it’s not always serious
The TARDIS in 1967 is Jodie’s TARDIS. They say it came from the Village attacked by The Angel in last weeks episode, which is last we saw it. It doesn’t look like Pertwee’s TARDIS. It looks like it’s made of wood, it’s chunky, it’s got the ridges in the corner. Also, that scene is set in 1967, whereas The 3rd Doctor’s era is during the 70s (early or late because of the UNIT Timing Controversy).
There are references in that scene! The man shouting in the distance is a sound clip of The Brigadier (& the episode even credits Nicholas Courtney) and there’s a reference to a 1st Dr story, The War Machines, when they mention The Post Office Tower. But the Pertwee TARDIS...Yeah, sorry that’s an opposie on your part 😅
I've been thinking about this for a while but of course more and changing as the story progresses. I think that the Fugitive Doctor is this universe's Doctor, while our Doctor is from the other universe (or a different one entirely) and somehow ended up in the wrong universe when she regenerated. When she arrived in the universe the Tardis spat her out because it couldn't recognise which Doctor was the real Doctor and began phasing in and out because the swap from one universe to the other shorted it out. The whole story with Tecteun, Division and the Fugitive Doctor is their own real story but our Doctor isn't really connected at all. She can still hear the fobwatch going off because technically they are the same person just from alternate universes so the fob watch is calling out to a Doctor that is near. She'll see the memories in the next episode and realise that all this time she is still who she thought she was all along and that they've got the wrong Doctor. No one technically lied, even the Master. This too explains how he returned again in the first place after Missy, cus it's that universe's Master, but everyone got mixed up with whos actually who.
I'm ngl I'd be a bit dissapointed if this wasn't the case. I've always felt I could write some really good stories for who but I dno if everyone would like them similar to how people don't like Chibnals now. However I have really enjoyed this series so far, my only issue with the series is despite being a single serial it feels more like what every season used to be like and what who should always be like with each story leading to something but still having an episodic story, just this is a bit more connected than before with the starts and ends. What I'm trying to say is despite it being marketed as THE FLUX, a single story, it feels more like normal new who still and the title could of been removed which is not a bad thing but I just don't like the way it's been portayed as something more than that to get the views when it barely feels like it is.
Final note, GOD DAMN this episode was one hell of a lot of exposition... Great ep but weirdly bad at the same time
I hope you are right, would be a great retcon if they could pull it off.
@@Rickdegraaf glad you like the idea :D can only wait and see now!
yes this would nbe good. but i do have m doubts they'll go this route, i think it gonna be 100% this the new lore for doctor who now . i'll keep watching the show reguardless but yea
@@reverse7503 yeah I have my doubts too but I can hope and dream xD I'm still gonna keep watching too cus I love the series as a whole too much to just give it up
Shaun: "I am downing Dan"
That's okay just watch out for that wok behind ya
My huge down is for the whole season over the hype of the return of the fugitive Doctor and all we see are quick flashes of her in the mirror, I had been expecting a whole episode with her in it.
She needs to feature prominently in the final to make me give it an up.
7:33 did anyone else see this scene and immediately think of the second story of Craig's house from The Lodger?
I've looked at Division as the Doctor Who version of Star Trek's Section 31. Something founded long before the current and more well known edicts of the society, that act in the shadows and in secret behind the scenes "for the greater good", as they would see it.
I have a bad feeling that Swarm or Azure will destroy the fob watch and the Doctor will never regain the missing memories.
If you include the Big Finish stories, then Division seems to be basically the same as the Celestial Intervention Authority
Once again Chibnall is rewriting the history of the Whoniverse. When the Second Doctor met Col A.G. Lethbridge-Stewart in the late 1960s, UNIT had not been created. It was in the early or late 1970s (depending on the dating protocols) that Pertwee fell out of his TARDIS after being exiled to Earth after A.G.L.-S.'s promotion to Brigadier, and the TARDIS was only brought to UNIT HQ after Dr Shaw signed on. So there is no way it could have been under preparation in 1957.
This series has a bunch of 'the exciting conclusion' in it that it feels a bit like Tennant's final full series when they didn't know if they would be continuing.
And the series has dealt with alternate universes before ... Pete's World, where Rose is now ... Inferno, where UNIT is a security force ... House, who is keeping all those Time Lords in bottles ...
Or to quote Kate in day of the doctor depends on the dating system....
_When the Second Doctor met Col A.G. Lethbridge-Stewart in the late 1960s, UNIT had not been created_
Not quite. AGL-S had been promoted to Brigadier by the time the 2nd Doctor met him in _The Invasion,_ and UNIT had already been created prior to that. The Brigadier says: "Since that Yeti do, I've been in charge of an independent intelligence group that we call UNIT". So it might all still fit.
However, what bothered me most was that AGL-S was a mere Corporal in 1958, which would mean that he'd have to rise through the ranks in a ludicrously short time for him to be a Colonel by the time of _The Web of Fear._ And that's even assuming that a Corporal could have made it to an officer's rank in the 1950s/60s, when the British class system was even more restrictive than it is now. Which brings me onto another thing that bugged me: I can't imagine that someone with Alistair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart's background could have been a Corporal in the first place. He was "officer-class" through and through, as were his family before him, so I found the idea of his ever being a Corporal very hard to believe.
@@ftumschk Technically we have no idea when The Web of Fear actually takes place as the DW expanded universe has offered wildly contradicting dates. But let's say it took place a couple of years before 1967, it might give the Brigadier a realistic timespan in which to go from a Colonel to a Corporal and so forth. If this is Chibnall's intention, the 1967 flashback takes place during the first months or years of UNIT's operations, while the 1958 flashback merely laid down the groundwork for its founding, which still was in response to the Yeti incident. So no contradictions there, really.
Agree. Also how is the Division able to travel outside and back into the Universe like this, so easily? It takes massive energy reserves to do it. The Tardis had to burn up multiple inter-dimensional rooms to punch in and out of the universe. Swarm and Azure had to burn up we don't know how many lifeforms to power their trip out of the universe, Peter's World drained a Tardis of almost all its (thought to be infinite) energy reserves! But the Division hop in and out at will as they try to influence the destinies of hundreds of thousands of civilizations. It's classic Chibnall lazy sci-fi story telling.
@@KingdomCooperFan People with the pedigree of a Lethbridge-Stewart rarely, if ever, enter the army as corporals - certainly not in peacetime. And you'd have been doing well to get from Captain to Colonel in a mere 8 years... never mind Corporal to Colonel, if that career path was even possible in the 1950s-60s.
My point isn't about potential contradictions with the convoluted "UNIT Dating" timeline, but contradictions with _reality._ If only Chibnall had given it some thought, and General Farquhar had referred to Lethbridge-Stewart as "a promising young Lieutenant" it would at least have been feasible. But "promising young Corporal" was stretching the bounds of credibility too far.
A small point, maybe, but it's one that really irked me.
It would have been really cool if there had been a cameo from Bessie
With Azure shown being curious of the Fog Watch, I've a feeling she'll end up setting it off out of curiosity and it ends up saving/helping the Doctor.
Fob watch, your spell check has betrayed you. :)
I'm kinda hoping that the Doctor is really a potential host of the Timeless Child and that watch has the essence of that being who later regenerated into energy. That the Doctor has a little of that essence already since she was a child (1st Doctor), which is why she's considered the Timeless Child, but she's but the host of another being that's part of her. That this is more like the resurrection of the Timeless Child with the sacrifice of the host. That it was all half-truths and that the Fugitive Doctor is from a possible future and doesn't remember her past while she's on the run from Gallifrey of the past, before the Time Wars, because of the Timeless Child, while using the Doctor's Tardis. Perhaps the best way to repair the damage that Chris did for being lazy when it comes to details and story structure.
Generally agree, but small issue with your final down. To me, that was as much an "homage" to the classic era as the third Doctor's TARDIS was, just in a more meta way. Those sorts of episode endings were a common part of the classic Who days, and I'm sure this ending was a call-back to those, and I personally would give it an up ...
I don't know. I just don't like how 'important' they're making The Doctor still. She's now not just a runaway Time Lord who stole the TARDIS to explore the universe. She's THE reasons the Time Lord's exist, the reason the universe needs to be destroyed, everything. It seem like CC is trying to put his stamp on DW (which all writers do, and that's fine), but he is fundamentally changing who and what DW is. At least in my eyes.
All I know is, RTD has a big job on his hands to get it back on track to where it was during his and Moffat's respective runs.
It’s probably just me but why does ‘ Prentis/Grand Serpent’ giving me the vibe that he will become the main villain (cannot track down his name anywhere)?!
I’m not gonna lie, I’m not looking forward to the rest of the series. I just want Chibs to just shut up about his TC plot. I just want RTD to save this show before Chibnall ruins it to the point of it being the Chernobyl of tv shows
I feel like RTD can make it work, but if he backtracks/retcons the timeless child... That's probably the laziest and most gutless thing he could do.
@@tianascheurman2965 I mean yeah, but I don’t think anyone can. It done so much damage that scenes that are supposed to be bedrock important aren’t anymore, and it just doesn’t make sense
@@tianascheurman2965 not saying he should but I’m just saying I don’t know if he can make it work, I wouldn’t mind being proven wrong
@@Drp_br_ I honestly don't think it's that bad, but to each their own. I actually vaguely kind of like it, but I don't begrudge you not.
I personally enjoyed the ending as it reminds me of the classic serials where at the end of most episode the doctor would be in mortal peril
I was triggered by the fact that they used the Queen Mary (built in 1936) for the sea travelling during the 1900s. I wanna have words with the digital designer who made that choice. But also the fact they used it twice.
Was thinking the same thing. Could have used an older model. HMS Victoria fits 1904, for example. Also the very same liner used for two different routes is of course at best lazy.
Can I ask the most basic question -- why is EVERYONE assuming Tecteun is now dead? First of all, Tecteun has infinite regenerations. Second, hasn't it been shown Swarm and Azure can enslave their victims, maybe in a Passenger or in that giant ominous space station?
I think they’ve been pretty deliberate in showing that Swarm’s powers are deadly. But I also wouldn’t be surprised if we discovered Tecteun’s “death” was a ruse
Why was Dan even a stowaway? Why didn’t they just buy 3 tickets?
It's a bit harsh to down the Doctor is about to die cliffhanger... For those of us who remember Classic Who this is a nice nod back to the "at least once a story" (which were 2-4 parts in my day, even longer in the Pertwee and before days) cliffhanger where the doctor is clearly about to die except clearly not going to die...
Weeping Angels working for Division as low-level functionaries? No way. When the Angels were at full power ("Time of the Angels"), they ripped a soldier apart and were using his voice box as a puppet.
This season is not as bad as last season, it's still a mess.
I agree, it’s a little strange that the Angels would work-for-hire as soldiers. Why would the Angels care about Division’s goals?
The shouty Corporal was none other than The Brigadier
I haven't really been loving the Chibnall Who, but this season makes me ask why didn't he do stuff like this from the start? I swear, if it turns out the big twist this season is, 'the swarm is the master', it will suck harder than a milkshake through a paper straw. Please let me be wrong.
What bugs me is that where is Rassilon in all this Timeless Child story? Sure one of the founders of Time Lord society would have a thing or two to share about all this. Last time we saw him he was exiled by his own people and 12, so he wouldn't have been one Gallifrey when The Master destroyed it.
Surely, the man obsessed with not dying would be trying to escape the Flux? Or been part of or most interested in the study of the timeless child? I feel that he would ground it in the Gallifrey we know. Tecteun just doesn't feel much representative to the Time Lords in general or the ones who created Division. She reminds me a bit of the Brofeld "author of all your pains" moment.
Rest of the episode was enjoyable and I agree about Yaz. It's nice to finally see her in a way more active role than the previous 2 series.
Well, the universe is a pretty big place! And Rassilon was exiled the last time we saw him, like you say. There’s also still one episode left, so ya never know…
He doesn't matter anymore
Yeah I wasn’t the biggest fan of this recent episode because of the retcons but I did feel entertained and I liked the parts with Dan I think he’s a good character so far.
You know it's a little irritating still that they revealed the older TARDIS in the episode which would either be the second or third Doctor's. And it looks so on par with the Fugitive Doctor's TARDIS that the Season 3B (?) theory still feels so tangible yet canonically ruptured now. It's a bittersweet thing. But Kate coming back, rejoice, she was fabulous.
The doctor’s “mother” was shown back in the tennant era, the timeless child and the story lines since are taking dw in the total wrong direction
The music is easy to forget. Bring back Murray Gold :/
It was way more Broadchurch than DW. Every bit that Chibs created was resolved like a mediocre Murder Mystery, not SciFi.
You know that Sean’s going to be scrapping the bottom of the barrel here when his first ‘up’ is the music. No Sean the music is crap every week and no matter how much you protest, we all know it is.
Further ups this week, a fob watch and Yaz *sigh* No that’s not a sigh because I fancy her, it’s a sigh at the low standards of Sean’s ups.
Sean for this format to work the ups and downs should actually count for something. Some weeks the downs should outnumber the ups. You’re allowed to do that, the earths not going to open up and swallow you up just for being honest and admitting that some episodes are a bit pants.
Sean just be honest.
Sean said there was no set up for DIVISION, could they have a different name the Celestial Intervention Agency the CIA, after all the CIA in real life are also known as a The Company.
Survivors of the Flux is certainly a mixed bag, and weaker than last week, but a stronger offering than the third episode, the switches between the 5 (? !) story lines (I might have lost count somewhere there) less jarring as the various story lines converged. The Doctor's plot was, as it was always going to be, exposition heavy. It felt fairly obvious that the old lady was Tecteun and it generated some nice insight into the Doctor's headspace post timeless children, but it would have been nice to have some sort of motivation behind the division other than "we do secret things in secret because we are a secret organisation and thus do secret things secretly!" I was perplexed by some of the logic on display too;×they generated the Flux to cleanse the universe because the doctor gave the universe hope, so they were going take the Doctor into the next one for... reasons.
Then we have Dan, Yaz and Jericho wandering around on the early 20th century, doing their best Indiana Jones impression. I would question where they found the money, but they were left in an abandoned village to pillage and three 3years, so not completely unrealistic. Perhaps Jericho their expeditions funded. Over-all their escapedes were in offensive, and they had a nice group dynamic, with some genuine laughs, though Jericho and Dan lost some of their characterisation, and were kind of just... There at times. it was a OK little plot, which chugged along well enough, whilst integrating the Williamson tunnels in a sensible way (though perhaps took too long to reach it's destination). Hopefully, next week will give us a reason for the tunnels. Perhaps they are the reason the Sontaran's Temporal offensive targeted Liverpool, or a consequence of their method of time travel?
The Bel/Vinder/Karvanista sub plots was pretty well handled, establishing the bones of next week's plot whilst not distracting from the main plot(s). Will say that Vinder is exceedingly lucky Swarm didn't just decide to just dust him.
Onto the Grand Serpent/ UNIT plot, and I personally enjoyed it. Craig Parkinson was obviously having a lot of fun smarmy-ing His way around the big - wigs at UNIT, and it gave us a logical reason for UNIT getting mothballed. I also like that the smarmy, unlikeable guy's plan was stymied because he was smarmy and unlikeable, which led to him being discovered by Kate Stewart (who really should have come up with a plan to deal with her evil alien boss before confronting said evil alien boss).
Ultimately, an OK episode, the multiple threads being handled better than in episode 1 and 3 as they converge.
Thus far, even Odd numbered episode has been mediocre, whilst the even numbered have Been Good and getting better. If this trend continues, episode 6 will be the best of the series, but there is still an awful lot to cover...
P. S. What's the betting the Doctor's going to 'Big Bang the universe again?
Amazing comment!
I’ve been saying for weeks that this series is gonna end with a Big Bang-esque reset, I think you’re on the right track there
@@danthemeegs8751 It seems like they most obvious solution. It also seems like (and I hope this isn’t the case) that they’re going building towards shunting our earth through into another universe, reseeding that one with all the aliens from the current one. A hard reboot, but just seems like a horrible decision all round, both in-universe and out.
@@samuelharmssambamsjm269 it really is obvious when you think about it. The Flux has DESTROYED most of our current universe, so the only way out of this is to move to a new universe, or reset/revert the current one
A lot of Chibnall’s Doctor Who is Jodie standing in a strange room talking.
Covid-19 restrictions.
@@peterward2275 even before COVID. His style of writing is so lazy.
A depressingly predictable episode of info dumping and canon shredding, with Jodie's Doctor doing nothing but standing around passively and getting the plot downloaded to her with no actual effort. She has no agency, the plot just lazily unfolds around her! The Timeless Child stuff is pure fan fiction, something Chibnall (no doubt) concocted back when he was 8 years old. This is just awful to watch, but also perversely interesting - like watching a car crash unfold before your eyes!
I still believe that the UNIT officer we get a quick glimpse of, who the Grand Serpent tells to get a doctor, was Lethbridge-Stewart.
So They made the timeless child cannon and are fixing it .Interesting and that the Master told the truth. some ups and a possible down there.