Our EVs Lost Half Their Value In Less Than One Year - What Buyers Should Know
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- Max and Colton from @OutofSpecDetailing talk about their depreciation experiences with their new and used EVs respectively. Both Coleton's new Volkswagen ID.4 and Max's used Polestar 2 have lost a LOT of value in less than one year. What does this mean for someone in the EV market?
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0:00 Welcome
1:15 Charging Standards
2:45 Steep New Depreciation
6:45 Steep Used Depreciation
8:19 Obsolete Tech
11:10 The Lease Argument
13:24 Wrap-Up
#volkswagen #polestar #electriccar - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Correction: the 2024 VW ID.4 does get the tax credit once more. However when Coleton bought his 2023 he did not get point of sale and it’s still a federal incentive, so we’re not considering it in the value of the vehicle.
So the one guy in his wife have three EV’s? Three cars for two people? And you want to complain that’s just stupid.
If you want to trade in your vehicle every 2 years, you should lease. If you want to keep your vehicle over 2 years, you should buy it.
Technically, right now its actually mathematically advantageous to lease and then buy at the end of your lease. You end up paying considerably less for the vehicle, then buying it and taking a loan. This applies only to new vehicles, the math changes if you buy a pre-owned vehicle.
Agreed. Make the best decision now based on the available information today. If it makes sense to buy a car today, go for it. It’s only expensive if you don’t use it.
It all depends on your tax situation and how your structured. Your statment is too general and not focused on how the tax code works.
cars are not investments, thats what baffles me about this
@@caraziegel7652 you’re not wrong. The old adage was that new cars lost 50% of their value when you drove off the lot. Cars are an expense that people budget for. If the cost of a car is too high, don’t get it. Not sure why some of these people are upset about it?
You can't complain about $20k in the hole when you got a almost $10k tax credit (Id.4). Use your net cost for comparison.
Yeah, the voodoo math is disappointing from OOS.
I got 14K and I am sure not complaining. I hope the all get cheaper as the demand/ production rises.
Yeah, that's not fair.
Buy a car you love then you don't have to worry about depreciation.
Exactly. Buy the car for what you think it’s worth and then drive it until you’re done. Depreciation doesn’t mean anything until many years later by which point the absolute dollar differences are negligible.
IF U total the car u only get what market value. my friend total his m3 only 6 mons old he lost 15k.
@@jianbinchen2881 there are replacement riders you can add to your policy. No big deal
Did he not have gap insurance?
@@jianbinchen2881
EVs are a scam by US and Chinese govts, the batteries are not fit enough to be put into cars the best batteries have energy density of 400 wh/kg compared to energy density of hydrogen of 38000 wh/kg and petrol energy density of 12000 wh/kg no way EVs can match the petrol and hydrogen cars, hydrogen is the future
Your discussion in this entire video basically highlights what many people dislike EV drivers for. The vehicle-as-an-accessory mentality where you are literally looking at dumping them at a year or two (or worse, like Kyle's dad who seems to replace cars every month) means you essentially collect the tax benefit and move on.
Lease for a year if you are so ADD when it comes to cars.
Toys for the wealthy.
With all the negative press on EVs, many will have lots of doubts on buying a used EV.
EVs are a scam by US and Chinese govts, the batteries are not fit enough to be put into cars the best batteries have energy density of 400 wh/kg compared to energy density of hydrogen of 38000 wh/kg and petrol energy density of 12000 wh/kg no way EVs can match the petrol and hydrogen cars, hydrogen is the future
There are so many disadvantages to owning Evs.
@@olaabi2229 And there are a lot of advantages. So get the facts. And you won't get them from oil industry talking points, or from dealers who hate EVs.
@@jamesvandamme7786 My brother has a Tesla and guess what. He can’t just jump into his car and go anywhere like I can. That’s a big disadvantage.
@@jamesvandamme7786the advantages aren't even comparable to the disadvantages.
Dude with the VW says he paid about 52K for the VW and got 9500 back so really he paid 42.5 K right? He’s been offered 33? It could be way worse my brother
Right??? Absolutely agree these things are going to continue depreciating like used bricks, but he's exaggerating his story. Paid $42.5k for a car brand new, and is offered $33k at CarMax, so if he did the legwork to actually sell it himself he'd see a a couple of grand more...that's just standard new car depreciation for something that isn't a Toyota/Lexus/Honda, etc.). Which personally I'd be grateful for if I were him, knowing what an absolute turd in the market the ID.4 has been. The Polestar 2 on the other hand, I'm very very excited for them to reach the $20k range, hopefully sometime this year!
Used market seems to finally falling to where it should have been. Last year was an anomaly and I'm surprised it was so high.
EVs are a scam by US and Chinese govts, the batteries are not fit enough to be put into cars the best batteries have energy density of 400 wh/kg compared to energy density of hydrogen of 38000 wh/kg and petrol energy density of 12000 wh/kg no way EVs can match the petrol and hydrogen cars, hydrogen is the future
I see the pinned comment about not including the tax credit when calculating depreciation, but I do not agree with that -- if Colton ultimately did get $9500 worth of tax credits on that ID.4, then those credits absolutely should be figured in calculating his basis. That lowers the basis on that ID.4 from $53k to $44k -- and if you compare that to the $33k offer from Carmax, that works out to 25% depreciation, which is a much less scary than seeing the value drop in half in a year.
I bought a Chevy Volt back in 2016 and I've always included the tax credit when figuring what I paid for the vehicle even though I didn't get the money until 9 months after my purchase of the vehicle. I think it is reasonable that any car buyer will do the same unless they are ineligible for the credit for whatever reason (such as exceeding the income cap).
EVs are a scam by US and Chinese govts, the batteries are not fit enough to be put into cars the best batteries have energy density of 400 wh/kg compared to energy density of hydrogen of 38000 wh/kg and petrol energy density of 12000 wh/kg no way EVs can match the petrol and hydrogen cars, hydrogen is the future
Not very elegant, giving the taxpayer your bills. Would you still pony up if you'd have to pay the full amount?
@@Billy-the-KidHave you never taken a tax credit in your life?
@@vladimus9749 Sure. And? There is nothing free market about tax credits. Bad system.
@@Billy-the-Kid No argument there. Just saying if there's a means to reduce tax burden, people should take it. Taxation is theft.
Man thats crazy stuff .I bought a new Honda SI in 2008 ,still have it mint shape .Paid $25 k got offered almost $12k a few days back .
When you have 10k in tax credits available for new cars only, it’s going to depreciate very rapidly bc people will just buy the new one unless used is significantly cheaper.
You say you are $20k in the hole if you trade your VW, you are not accounting for the $9500 tax credit you said you received. New cars can often have $10k depreciation in the first year so in reality even though it isn’t great, it realistically isn’t much different from norms after accounting for the tax credit.
$53K which includes tax, plus a $9500 tax credit, down to $33K from carmax is not halved…. Also we have to consider that pretty much all EVs at this time fall into the luxury vehicle category. Luxury vehicles have always depreciated quickly at least in the first few years.
I bought a '16 leaf with 20,000 miles. Top of the line, leather, Bose etc. $39,000 new. I bought it in 2020 for $12,000. Also, bought a '21 Niro. New it was $42,000. We picked it up with 11,000 miles for about 2/3rds the price. Used is defiantly the way to go!
A lot of the depreciation you're seeing in the US is a combination of Tesla's aggressive price cuts and your government's protectionist changes to your EV tax credit requirements (in combination with manufacturer pricing designed around those incentives).
Here in Canada it's a cash rebate based on the battery size and your personal income. Where it was built doesn't matter so more vehicles are eligible.
Anyone buying an EV thinking of it as an investment, is like buying a flat panel TV for $20,000 in the year 2001 thinking you could sell it in 2010 for any value. Or a new laptop in the mid 90's which went for $4,000 or higher thinking you could sell it in a few years later for anywhere near that much. Technologies improve at lighting speeds. Just like those 2 other items I mentioned, EVs are going to get cheaper, and cheaper while getting better and better.
Just think of trying to sell a brand new ICE car that you buy now in 5 to 7 years from now when no one will want it. It's like trying to sell a CRT TV in 2010. No one wants something that is no longer relevant.
In Norway, no one wants an ICE vehicle anymore, so Norwegians trying to sell their ICE vehicles have to do so in Sweden or other nearby European countries because no one wants them in Norway anymore. An even then, they take a massive hit because fewer and fewer Europeans want ICE anymore.
Hey guys. The 2023 ID.4 does have route planning and I've found it to be pretty accurate and the ID.4 is eligible for the full $7,500.
You’re correct it’s eligible this year! I haven’t used VW route planning yet and perhaps coleton hasn’t installed the software update from his dealer.
Yep! Used the route planning on my road trip from FL to NY and back. Also now the 2023 also has Plug and Charge with EA which is super convenient (as long as they work properly)
@@ArbitraryFilmings stay with ICE absolutely wasn’t our conclusion
It’s always had route planning, since launch, and have improved it since launch, idk why he’s saying it doesn’t have it.
EVs are a scam by US and Chinese govts, the batteries are not fit enough to be put into cars the best batteries have energy density of 400 wh/kg compared to energy density of hydrogen of 38000 wh/kg and petrol energy density of 12000 wh/kg no way EVs can match the petrol and hydrogen cars, hydrogen is the future
I’m not sure why so many folks are thinking a switch to NACS is going to be such a game changer? CCS to NACS adapters and access to Superchargers for other brands is only a few weeks away.
Why ? Kyle told them 😂 always about the plug instead of SC access .
...and NACS vehicles (just like a Tesla) still might want a CCS adapter too. In many areas you still might need to combine all charging options.
@ArbitraryFilmings You are bang on. I've had 6 EVs over past 3 years and on the first two I made massive profits as cars particularly EVs were impossible to get new(especially in Canada) . My 3rd ev I broke even on and sold after only 4 months as I wanted out before market crashed. 4th ev I took a big hit on but got a decent trade after shopping around. I still own my 5th and 6rh ev. Point is you get addicted to buying these new cras and it's a bummer than they now depreciated so fast but this video is definitely poorly done and with an agenda.
I think most people don't want to mess around with adapters. Also depends how long you're keeping the car. I keep my cars 10+ years. If NACS really wins out CCS might be in the small minority 5+ years from now.
If you don't have to buy now I think it makes sense to wait until the charging situation settles a bit more. You aren't missing anything by driving a functioning car another year or two.
NACS is a better standard. Superchargers are more reliable than their CCS counterparts. Switching the infrastructure to NACS makes sense.
With the rapid and constant improvement in evs, anyone who thought they'd hold their value wasn't thinking straight. I knew my Bolt euv was obsolete when I bought it in early '23, but it was fixed and a known quantity.
EVs are a scam by US and Chinese govts, the batteries are not fit enough to be put into cars the best batteries have energy density of 400 wh/kg compared to energy density of hydrogen of 38000 wh/kg and petrol energy density of 12000 wh/kg no way EVs can match the petrol and hydrogen cars, hydrogen is the future
I bought a new id3 and sold it with a 10% profit (Fall 2022).
@@stevena9305 -- I sold my '19 awd Prius in Sept 2022 for a profit, but that market is gone.
What did you buy after it and lose 50% on lol
@@jlrguy2702 An Audi A5 coupe. Lost money on that one but 10% not 50, lol.
Wow, in British Columbia a 2021 ID4 with 30,000 kilometers odometer is listed for $47K. The new ones are minimum $58K.
U.S. market complete out of whack
It’s listed for 47k, but good luck getting that from anyone who isn’t on drugs!
Max your other advantage is the Polestar 2 has the charge port in a Tesla friendly location rear drivers side!
EVs are a scam by US and Chinese govts, the batteries are not fit enough to be put into cars the best batteries have energy density of 400 wh/kg compared to energy density of hydrogen of 38000 wh/kg and petrol energy density of 12000 wh/kg no way EVs can match the petrol and hydrogen cars, hydrogen is the future
Works really well at magic dock stations
People complained for years that EVs were too expensive. Now they are complaining they are too cheap.
Coleton ~43k and was offered 33k from carmax that's about right for depreciation in 13 months and with 8,000 miles. 20% the moment you drive it off the lot.
The polestar is CRAZY. 75% value lost in 3 model years?? Unless Tesla is $15k under that's terrifying. The initial deal yeah I would have jumped on it too nearly 30k off with only 7.5k miles. But WOW.
Does the car work only half as well as last year? If not, is it really a problem?
What a dealer offers you for trade is their low ball offer. It's up to you to go higher, or reject the deal. It's better to check used prices in your area for your model. That said, it's a great time to get into a new/used car if you can negotiate a good price used or get the tax credits.
EVs are a scam by US and Chinese govts, the batteries are not fit enough to be put into cars the best batteries have energy density of 400 wh/kg compared to energy density of hydrogen of 38000 wh/kg and petrol energy density of 12000 wh/kg no way EVs can match the petrol and hydrogen cars, hydrogen is the future
Absolutely. Also I've never understood why people trade in cars instead of selling them. You're easily leaving a third if their value on the table. A few hours of effort for thousands of dollars should be a no-brainer.
I just took my ID.4 round trip Portland to Anaheim. There was only one place in SoCal I had to wait for a charger, and I only had to call EA twice. The car was solid. I'm keeping her till her wheels fall off and buy after the lease since I will exceed the miles. My motto is to have fun with it.
My wife and friend flew to AZ for a day trip (don't ask). The rental company gave them a Kia EV and said to bring it back 80% charged. They only drove about 20 miles or so. On the way back to the airport they tried charging it. Wouldn't work. Downloaded apps. Nope. Tried different chargers. Nope.
So brought it back to Budget with 79% charge and of course budget charged them $20 for not having it charged to 80%. They couldn't argue aa they were late for their flight.
And this phenomenon is International as well. I rented an EV in Korea last summer and the chargers just wouldn't work. I was given a card to pay with and I would hook up a charger, scan the card and the charger showed everything OK. I plugged it in and it showed it is connected and charging at a certain rate. But nothing. After 4 or 5 chargers I found one that was different and it finally worked.
Hey, thank you for taking the hit on the depreciation. It's people like you that make it possible for people like me to buy heavily depreciated cars for a song. Maybe leasing EV's is the way to go.
EVs are a scam by US and Chinese govts, the batteries are not fit enough to be put into cars the best batteries have energy density of 400 wh/kg compared to energy density of hydrogen of 38000 wh/kg and petrol energy density of 12000 wh/kg no way EVs can match the petrol and hydrogen cars, hydrogen is the future
I lease my Tesla and it’s been great. My next car will likely be a leased Tesla as well.
R U rich woke élite ?@@alexlabs4858
Max and Colten you guys are young and may not be aware that it has almost always been that the minute you drive any vehicle off the lot depreciation is 30% . So Just not a big deal . I got my ID 4 about 8 months ago 2023 ID 4 AWD Pros S after all the rebates 40K . I drive Uber and have 30k miles on already ;) I'm just not worried about it. I'm even planning on needing to replace a module or two after warranty ..maybe 130k miles or .... just preparing. The ID 4 is great in the aspect because you dont need to replace the entire battery just whatever module that has the bad cell.
The ISSUE for you is that you and your wife want to try other EV's but depreciation is holding you back, consider putting your ID 4 on TURO platform , that will make your car payment as well as introducing others to EVs . That frees you up to buy the EV9 or whatever it is your wife wants to drive next.
BTW, I'd love to come out in the spring from Minnesota and get a REAL detailing job on My ID 4. Driving Uber I run the the car wash every other day, im impressed with the ID4s paint but yeah scratchs popping up.
I was looking at a 2023 Audi A4 S-line with 9K miles and it was selling at the dealer for just 29K. If the dealer is selling it at that price, what did they buy it for? 22?, 24K? Keep in mind this car sells for over 45K new. Reality is that except for the pandemic, ANY time you buy a NEW car, you're DEFINITELY going to be underwater in a year. Early Tesla owners got spoiled, because of the shortage of cars, used cars were selling for as much and sometimes even MORE than new, but now that Tesla is producing Millions of cars per year, that's no longer an issue.
I really appreciate this was done in one shot. No fast paced cuts❤
EVs are a scam by US and Chinese govts, the batteries are not fit enough to be put into cars the best batteries have energy density of 400 wh/kg compared to energy density of hydrogen of 38000 wh/kg and petrol energy density of 12000 wh/kg no way EVs can match the petrol and hydrogen cars, hydrogen is the future
I agree with the info of value dropping. But I also think Colton is wrong about the ID.4. it does have a route planner and it actually works out. Plus I have a 2022 Pro S RWD, and so far I have traveled 57k miles on the car. It's been fantastic. But I also am going to keep it for many years.
EVs are a scam by US and Chinese govts, the batteries are not fit enough to be put into cars the best batteries have energy density of 400 wh/kg compared to energy density of hydrogen of 38000 wh/kg and petrol energy density of 12000 wh/kg no way EVs can match the petrol and hydrogen cars, hydrogen is the future
Sounds like normal depreciation to me. I expect most new cars to depreciate about 20-30% off their selling price within the 1st year. If you like new cars every couple years I definitely recommend leasing over buying so that you have some predictability
This was an informative discussion on EV depreciation. I appreciate you bringing up the connectors, charging issues,and battery preconditioning.
no route planning? I find the ID4's route planning decent. it lets you pick charging stations, informa you how long to charge, and charge on arrival.
This is the reason I got the Tesla Model Y Long Range. I just saw everything else as a compromise. Why get to get on the best charging network when you can buy the car that natively has access to it in every way? I bought right after the latest price drop. In fact, it dropped $2K 2 days before I picked mine up, so I got the adjustment. With federal and state tax credits, I paid $40K. With that said, I never worry about being underwater with a car, because I almost always keep my car for long periods of time, at least 10 years. So I don't care what I could get for it, as I have no plans of selling.
Love my ID4 Standard S....$35,300 new....I charge at home for free with solar and my only long road trip 1100 miles up the west coast was no problem at EA. EA is TERRIBLE in San Diego but most of the chargers on the remote towns along the I5 corridor were fine. I hate the laggy interface vs my i4 but I just really love my ID and will drive it as long as it will let me 😊
Most cars aren’t any better an investment than refrigerators. Imagine the depreciation trying to sell your refrigerator after a year.
Buying any car late in the year means more depreciation. Technically Colton's car is 2 years old. I just bought a 2021 ID4 AWD Pro S with 30k miles for just over $30k. Really wanted a new Ionic 5, but I'll keep this till it dies.
Depreciation is bad for new car buyers looking to trade. But its excellent for used car buyers who are often poorer and can't afford to buy new. This will help EVs proliferate.
I loose $20k if I sell my 2019 Tesla M3 LR AWD. I’m keeping it till paid for and beyond! Great car, regular updates
Have Kyle buy a old Tesla model S, for $15k or less, what u can get? Is it worth buying an out of warranty EV
Those 2013 - 2015 Model S's are cheap especially with the $4k federal used EV tax credit, but they are ticking time bombs in regards to reliability.
You just sell them for parts if you have any big or costly problem.@@conchobar
@@conchobarI thought EVs are more reliable than gas cars?
Route planning is decent in my European 23 MY ID.4. Its only weakness is it doesn’t take topography into account. But it updates charging stops dynamically. VW is also preparing OTA updates now. Not holding my breath there’ll be major features but at least VW is still working on ID. Software 3.x vehicles.
Very good and informative video. You brought up some interesting points.
An investment can only lose you money when you sell it. So if you experience accelerated depreciation in your investment, your initial plan or thought for selling it was a bad one, and you'll need to keep owning that investment to get value. If you keep driving these cars until they're no longer able to be kept on the road any more, you'd easily recoup your investment. Don't day trade cars. It's a foolish proposition.
You're not the first set of car owners that are fascinated with owning a different car every year. Normal people need to learn to live vicariously instead of insisting on the privilege of actually owning all the cars that will interest you.
A lot of people are selling their EVs and going back to gasoline vehicles because they're sick and tired of all the headaches and depreciation
Grow up.
He’s stating a fact, and you’re judging him for it. EVs aren’t working out for many.
Are you sure HE’S the one that needs to grow up? You might as well have called him a poopyhead.
@@COSolar6419 I think maybe you need to grow up and face the facts EVS ain't not what they're cracked up to be they cost more to repair they're expensive they cost more to ensure why is rental car companies selling $20,000 EVs and going back to gasoline vehicles why don't you ask them about that
most manufacturers are not creating evs with a good experience. plus lack of infrastructure is really what is holding it back. once infrastructure becomes better it will start to gain traction. Besides Tesla other EVs are in their infancy stage
The last survey I saw was about a year ago , at the time it showed 20% of EV buyers go back to ICE within 2yrs.
I have a 2023 ID.4 and I don't mind it at all and love it compared to my 2016 Rav4. I plan on keeping my ID.4 for as long as possible its just a perfect car for me
11:45 When was this filmed? The ID4 does qualify for the federal $7500 tax credit now.
I read the other day that on the 2024's only the UD 4s with the SK battery will be getting the credit..so something to remeber for peopel shopping new ID4. Double check LG or SK battery
EVs are a scam by US and Chinese govts, the batteries are not fit enough to be put into cars the best batteries have energy density of 400 wh/kg compared to energy density of hydrogen of 38000 wh/kg and petrol energy density of 12000 wh/kg no way EVs can match the petrol and hydrogen cars, hydrogen is the future
Hi folks, I have never leased a car and I am a bit confused about why it is a problem to change a car after big depreciation for a given model. Would someone be so nice and explain this? 🤔
VW has no plans to provide route planning and battery conditioning to pre 2023 ID.4s via a software update?
They put the cart before the horse. Giving tax breaks and free charging and no charging infrastructure, good for short trips. Range fear is real that why rental car companies are getting rid of their EV’s no one’s renting them. At some point they will be great but until they build a good reliable charging close to what gas vehicles currently have without one hour charging times people aren’t going to switch. But the prices are falling faster than they can build them so that might help.
Tesla 3 range is around 150 miles based on 30-80 % charge levels.
They haven’t lost a dime until you need or want to sell them.
Frequent selling of cars is a weakness. To lower costs of cars. But new and sell only when they cost more to repair than to replace.
Most of the time that’s 20+ years. Which lowers cost of ownership to a couple hundred dollars per month.
I’m a gear head. I am a trained mechanic with a great selection of tool.
Knowledge is power. Trusting others to “fix” your car is going to more than double the cost of ownership. Frequent unneeded work is claimed to be needed immediately. Sometimes 10’s of thousands of miles before actually required.
Values are all relative, if you had to replace it you could buy it back for less as well. People get so stuck on values when in reality the value is the same its just a lower number.
I keep my cars for the long run generally and don't worry about depreciation. I kept my last Golf for 18 years, and my current on I've had for 5 years. Get your money's worth, and stop buying cars that aren't going to fulfill your needs. Keeping any car for 13 months and then trading it is just flushing money down the toilet for nothing.
Exactly, there's been more "sad stories" about 12 mth old EVs losing value, mainly IDs.
Another one today with just 60k kms on it, drive it on & next time do your research before buying a "cheating brand"
Common sense says EV going to depreciate due to many factors: Tesla effect (prices dictated by Tesla price cuts/increase), federal tax incentives, state rebates, dealer markups by non Tesla vehicles (meant you overpaid in the first place), etc.
I’ll also add…if you got almost 10k credit from your vehicle…of course it’ll depreciate faster. My Ioniq 6 got $7500 off sticker price when I bought it Dec 23. So I’m already that much behind. But…I leased it.
Depreciation, insurance, tyres, power are all part of costs…..on the other side there are some benefits. For high mileage usage with home charging the numbers balance
Purchasing Gap insurance on any financed vehicle is super important in the traditional car market and now ev market. In the event your insured car is totaled in an accident, gap insurance covers the difference between cars value and what you owe on the loan. While it doesn’t apply to vehicle trade-ins, it does reduce your financial risk for the car loan in the event of a wreck.
You ever seen a gap insurance quote on a new ev? If you ever do, you’ll turn into a gambling man reeeeeal quick.
I always pay cash, always used, run them 5-10 years, and never get collision insurance. So far I'm WAAAY ahead.
Always say no at the dealer and get it at your insurance company instead. Dealer wanted like $900 for something my insurance charged $8/month that I would only need for 2 years.
You deserve this!
You wouldn't listen to people with common sense in regards to all the issues that are comming for the EV market.The majority of motorists don't want them!
Used EV buying prospect sees a dent on the side of the car. Now they are afraid the battery has been damaged. Big fire or big replacement cost or both.
I stick to our ICE...paid in full and works like a charm.
Why do you say your cars don’t get software updates. Is that really true? My EV6 has received regular updates that improved the navigation, added preconditioning and other things.
No mention in this video about Bolts, but the cheaper price point means that a Bolt would have to lose 100% of its value in order for the total depreciation to match which the ID4 and Polestar shown in the video got in just one year. And, as long as the car still drives, it will always still have *some* value.
I would still argue that buying a Bolt and holding it until the battery dies is a much cheaper way to drive an EV than leasing a new, fancier car every 2-3 years with all the shiny new charging tech.
Waiting for $10k lightly used Bolts. Should happen this year. Very well rounded EV for the price if you don't fast charge often.
I have a 2022 ID4 and yep its not great depreciation wise, but I knew that going in. 2023's just got plug and charge on EA, and I just got my first OTA update. Its not a flashy ride, but it gets the job done, and will be just fine until my next car likely an R2S comes out.
We're still a year away from completing our three year lease on our German built 2021 VW ID4. Since we've added a Tesla Model 3 alongside it in the garage and discovered just how much easier it is to roadtrip that car, we've arrived at a crossroads. Roadtripping the ID4 is more trouble than it's worth and while we love the car, it's simply outpaced by worthy competitors in the EV space like Tesla. When we started our lease, we were shocked that the residual value after three years was approximately half of our purchase price.
We didn't pay a lot of attention to that detail because, in a sense, we were protected from it's residual value since there was no harm in simply turning it in at the end and walking away. Well, now we've bought a used 2023 Tesla Model X Plaid and we're looking to offload the VW but it's gonna be costly when you consider its depreciation. We're left buying out the lease and selling it to a friend or family member.
Great video and keep up the great work!!
I start loving my car at year 10!
Yeah ugh. I got a great deal on my EV6 but interest rates were through the roof. I was forced in to leasing it to get the tax credit. But half my lease is interest 😢. But gees oh man. If I buy it right now, I would be majorly upside down. I’ll probably keep leasing EVs until the market settles down. Unless we opt for a Tesla but I had the same issue. My partner just didn’t like the Tesla.
Love your channel. Excellent video.
Keep in mind that some used EVs will go to "good for parts only" value as repair costs will be higher than current value.
If you live in an area where there are solid EV repair shops you might do better.
I agree about the depreciation. But almost every vehicle bought in the last 2-3 years has similar issues. EV's in particular: tax rebates, lower prices on new cars, and higher interest rates all add up. Leasing on good terms is always a good option if you plan on changing vehicles in the short term. I'm way underwater on my 2022 Tesla M3, but should be fine in a few years. Plan on keeping it, but was also hoping to flip for a Model Y. Now its not looking so good financially.
Not even close. EV buyers are losing more money in a year than I've lost on my Toyota in 20 years, and I bet my 20 year old Toyota will still outlast your newer EV, which would explain why it's still so valuable. You people are just throwing money away on these electric cars.
@eugenem5244 It's their money to throw. I throw money at my kids, so my Tacoma is 24 years old on Valentines day. It outlasted my girlfriend at the time. Now, with college and everything, I can't even throw money at nitrogen for my tires.
@@foxtrotwolf6081 It's not all their money. These vehicles are subsidized.
Regardless of where the money comes from, it's still the truth. Would sensible people be buying an EV knowing it loses tens of thousands of dollars in value in just a short period of time??
I bought a Ford Maverick hybrid a year and a half ago. Due to demand and Ford price increase I can still sell it for the same as I paid.
Great insight into the ever changing used car market 👍
Any reason for not waiting for the ID. Buzz Colton?
What kind of planning did you actually perform when a year later you want to get rid of the car you just bought? Sounds to me like you didnt think thing through and should just keep the car until it makes financial sense to sell it.
I wanted to hedge my bets, so I leased my 24 ioniq 5. I figure that if something new and better is available in three years, I’ll turn it in. Otherwise, I will finance the residual and keep it. I love the car, it has route planning, although it’s not the best. I just use ABRP. I plug-in the stops so that the preconditioning works. Just took it on a 1200 mile road trip and had zero issues with anything. Even Electrify America worked fine. I switched chargers one time because a 350kW was only giving me ~ 70kW. Moved to the other available 350kW and pulled 241kW. That was the only minor hiccup.
Leasing no longer works at 10 % implied interest.
You have to understand that after 3 years if your car is worth a lot less than the residual value of your car then it's best to just trade in your car and get a similar used one instead.
This is why leasing is best rn for EV cars cause the market is changing so much rn. You might wake up tomorrow and Hyundai accounces that they're lowering their prices on their Ioniq 5 by $5K to compete with Telsa. This will drop all Ioniq 5 car values accross the board.
I just leased an EV6 GT for 2 years and I got it for a great price. I'm glad that I only did it for 2 years now vs 3. I think he 2 years I will know if I really want to keep it or not. I could honestly say right now tho that I'm not confident enough that his car will stick to that original residual value. I have a feeling it will be less so if that does happen I will have to be ready for that even tho I love this car now. If I could get a used GT in 2 years for a lot less then I would do it and be happy as a 2nd owner to that car. I don't have a problem with that whatsoever.
Now if I was financing the car and the value went super down then I would be SOL on it. I would've been stuck with it as getting out early would not be the smart move. I would have to wait until 4-5 years for my payments to catchup with the trade-in value. Nobody wants to have negative equity on anything.
@@volcalstone Oh, of course. I should say I plan to keep mine unless something new and better comes along, OR the residual is just ridiculous compared to the used market. We’ll see where I land.
One of the big issues no one has talked about is what kind of demand there's actually going to be for used EV's. Right now, it's almost nonexistent. One stat I was able to find showed that it is a tiny fraction of what new EV sales are, which is the exact opposite for ICE cars (where used outsell new by more than two to one). That's going to affect the resale value of an EV much more than an ICE car if it turns out that very few folks want a used EV.
As someone else suggested, it may be better to just lease a new EV. That way, you limit your exposure to the ever-changing EV landscape in terms of improvements to tech, range, battery life and replacement cost, and of course...the extremely unpredictable resale value.
??? don't think so
That's just how Tesla values are trade-ins. I really bought a used Model S and the day after delivery I did evaluation for trade and just out of curiosity and it was $25K less than they just sold it for and were still selling the same model for. They just love all the absolute crap out of you on trade-ins.
You get bent hard if you sell anything auto in a few months after purchase.
I'm keeping my 14 year old diesel that I can get 500 miles out of and fill up anywhere in 5 or 10 mins, and was never going to buy an EV right from day one. what is happening now and I can see it getting a lot worse, only shows it was the right decision.
Buying a non-tesla EV right now just doesn't make sense. Between NCAS, the supercharge network, heatpump, battery conditioning etc, they're the closest to making it easy. But I understand the spartan interiors are barrier for many people. Which just means its still very early for EVs.
46k for the pulsar might still be too much, depending on the warranty and the actual real life possibility to repair it if something goes bad.
Hi guys it’s just as bad over here in England prices have taken a real tumble. The government were going to ban the sale of new petrol and diesel cars in 2030 but that’s been pushed back to 2035 and I think this has added to our depreciation problems over here. Great video
Unfortunate for the depreciation with EVs, but I’m more concern with battery degradation and the cost to service for something simple as a capacitor. I’ve been driving a 2014 BMW i3 for 10-years and it’s been a great city car, but I’m looking for more info on the durability of the new EVs coming out and the cost for a repair such in long term ownership. Durability needs to be in the equation as it equals economics.
Just purchased a 2022 CPO P*2 from same dealer as Max (Portland). Cost me $43,800 will all trim packs and nappa leather seats. Paid cash. My concern isn't so much further depreciation, but rather long term viability of Polestar as a company. I still went forward with the purchase in light of it's relationship with Volvo. Overall, very happy with joining the EV club. 😊
Also, car has 7800 miles and was a personal lease as opposed to car rental company lease.
Volvo just dropped Polestar today. I’m in the same boat 2022 P2 PPP Napa 10k miles and paid $40,000, now god knows.
@@mcbryano geez... wondering what this means in terms of servicing now...
@@mercutio100 yeah not sure but probably not good…
@@mcbryano just got off the phone with the Portland space. Was given assurances that "nothing has changed" with regard to servicing needs while under warranty with P* certified Volvo dealerships given pre-existing contractual agreements. We'll see..
When Tesla rolls out the Model 2 at 25K (before rebates), prices of other used EVs will drop like a rock.
Well, the "when" is an unknown as Tesla has a history of missing deadlines.
Well like they said. It’s a buyers market. Best to go used not new. I just bought a 2022 Tesla model 3. 25k miles. $26,000. Did not get the credit as it’s not under $25k. I don’t see if what I can sell it for. I’m keeping it 5 years.
Every car nosedives the first year of ownership. The less verified a vehicle's reliability is, the steeper is the descent. Four days after buying in Colorado some people see a snap 10k loss in value. Used vs New.
Specific to EV's, manufacturers are not making battery pack replacement easy or cheap.
My ICE 2012 Mercedes was bought for 50% the original MSRP in 2015. Depreciation isn't a big deal if you buy a car you really like and keep it. I have owned 2 cars in the last 20 yrs. I will either wait for a Model Y Juniper, or wait for another manufacturer to sell with NACS port. That will be the time.
We appreciate your honesty.
Ia Polestar 2 for $24,999 would be one hell of a deal.. Get that $4k rebate for used cars under$25k. Boom, badass car for $21k.
Go read about the gas powered car in 1905. There were a huge number of problems owning an ICE vehicle then. That included regreasing the transmission after every drive. Oh, and there was no electric start.
Well with all the talk about how expensive ev's are could the used prices get more people in possibly. Seems like there are some crazy discounts out there if you are willing to go used.
If depreciation is worrying you, you should just buy any Toyota hybrids. My 2019 Toyota Prius Prime price today in 2024 was higher than when I bought it in 2019 when I can get it with tax incentives both federal and state.
You can start calling CCS "the wrong plug" it's ok. We won't judge
I think the lesson is don't buy a new EV, buy a well cared for low mileage 2 or 3 year old one. I don't think EV depreciation is going to do anything but get worse. Which is probably a good thing if you want a cheap used car.
Used EVs have battery and longevity problems. No one will buy an out-of-warranty EV, there’s just too much risk. I guess there just won’t be any third buyers, so poor folks are SOL. Again. Maybe they can go work the lithium mines.
@@jeffforbess6802Poor people are SOL anyway. Even if you got an EV for free, where can you charge it if you live in an apartment building or a rental home?
In the UK, high initial price, high insurance and massive depreciation have restricted EVs to business buyers with big tax breaks. There is virtually no market for used EVs. There is a suggestion of the Government bringing in a scrappage scheme for the safe disposal of unsaleable E VS.
That government scrapping plan would shift costs from the buyers but what will they tax to fund it?
Why no used market? Seems like there would be lots of bargains.
@@vladimus9749 Doesn't matter how cheap they are to buy, EV's are just too impractical and difficult to own for most people.
@@vladimus9749 there is a used market. It's a market for a used car body. The buyer assumes that the body is not pristine and that they need to install a new battery. That sets the value at far below the new car price.
Leasing is not good for people who drive a lot, or take road trips. I leased my ID.4 with 10,000 miles and I took one road trip last summer that was 5,000 miles, so if I hadn’t retired and stopped commuting I would have gone over my mileage long before the end of the lease. I compounded the bad by purchasing the ID.4 because I like it, but now I’m instantly upside down in equity. I probably will keep it two more years at least so it will end up being fine.
I found that using the mileage to the next charger and adding 60 miles as buffer to work most of the time on trips with the ID.4. It only told me I wouldn’t get to my next charge twice, but I did not run out either time. Both times it warned me as I was going over a pass and the remaining distance was mostly downhill. Nowhere near as good as Tesla in road trip planning.
Tesla borked the value of their cars each time they do a major price drop yet I don’t really fault them because their mission is to get people into an EV and out of a gas car. Still, when I was thinking about selling my Model S, I canceled purchasing a Model Y because my car dropped $10k in two months and my Model S was 8 years old. Tesla is the worst place to trade in even a Tesla, so I would definitely get quotes from Car Max, or Carvana, or a local dealer before taking the Tesla value. It didn’t used to be that way because when I got the Model S they were better than others trading in my Fiat 500e.
We need EV buyers! How can we ban the nasty ice’s if we can’t get more buyers?
Leasing is good advice. My Fisker Ocean One is only worth 50 cents on the dollar. Live and learn.
Thank You for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth...🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤
There are plenty of ICE vehicles that have shockingly massive amounts of depreciation....but I guess that's different somehow. Depreciation is not on my radar when buying and owning a car. I keep my cars till there's no life in them. When I replace a car for 200, 000 miles, no matter how much I loved it and I have loved all my cars, I am ready for something new and there's no looking back, no second guessing and no expectation that I'll get any money for my old car.