so amazing! I had worked as a railway signaling designer and engineering in China for 10 years. In 2016, my family and I immigrated to Canada. Now I am looking for job as a signaling designer. I watched your videos to learn the signal system in Canada. It's the best way for me. Easy to understand . Thank you very much.
as a locomotive engineer that operates exclusively on OCS, these videos always help me freshen up on my signals for my re certification every three years....
Thank you Ian. My grandfather was an engineer on the CN, and I have a good friend who was a Conductor until retiring a few years back. It's always good to get solid, first-hand info. Being an engineer of the other kind, I can appreciate the high cost of signalling systems as well as maintaining radio comms (I did a bit of the latter). Many thanks, stay safe, and remember "Sex and Travel."
Excellent video, this is the first time I have ever seen this type of signalling explained. It is a contrast to the UK system and based on a totally different concept. In the UK we still have a fair amount of mechanical semaphore signals, so where there are colour light signals, they are equivalent to the semaphores. There are two types of signal, home and distant. Each can show two aspects. Home shows red (danger) or green (line clear); distant shows amber (caution) or green. A distant can only show green if all of the home signals associated with it are also green; effectively it tells you what to expect the next signal's aspect to be - clear or danger. In areas with heavy traffic and colour light signals a fourth lamp is added this is yellow, meaning that a 'double yellow' aspect is possible (meaning, expect the next signal to be amber and the one after that to be red) In the UK the signals don't give any indication of speed (although they do indicate the route set at junctions). Fixed trackside boards are used to indicate speed. I hope that this wee bit of information is of interest in return for your well-made and informative video.
Keep in mind that he is specifically explaining the Canadian signaling system. Other signals in the United States operate with similar principles, but not the exact same in all cases. There are many signaling systems and apparatus in the U.S.
2:33 If it's fail-safe, why does the (A) plate _downgrade_ the "stop and proceed" to an absolute stop? Shouldn't the (A) stand for "automatic", therefore _Stop and Proceed?_ The only saving grace is that you're going at Restricted Speed.
Norfolk & Southern use these signals as well, in mt area. I picked up a couple of things that I didn't understand before, the non-vertical heads. Thanks.
A stolen semaphore's head value was placed at $50,000 and some damned fool stole one but it was NOT along the Raton route. I believe it was along an old piece of CNW trackage. CNW tracks also have a handful of semaphores in use. Raton only sees some, mostly one AMTRAK train, maybe still some coal, ribbon rail from the old CF&I mill, military equipment trains, some seasonal trains, empty cars being moved for staging up in the mountains until harvest time and a smattering of misc. MOW stuff.
I don't know where you learned that from but in NSW an absolute signal is a controlled signal regardless of being an accept or home or home starting signals. Permissive signals are automatic or track circuited controlled signals. Here in NSW the "blue lunar" signals are either Guards Indicators on platforms or they are Main Line Indicators into train order territory. The "blue lunar" lights can also be track side warning lights for ground personnel for the warning of approaching trains illuminated for clear track and extinguished for an approaching train.
The non-RTC controlled signals are not under the control of "automatic CTC"; there ain't no such animal. CTC is remote manual control of absolute signals and switches. Intermediate signals between RTC-controlled signals are automatic block signals whose aspects reflect the presence of a train in advance of a signal or a route lined against a signal.
I have been watching this series and I am learning a lot. Thanks. However, your drawings of switches is funny! I think you need to 'upgrade' the drawings and add the frog and correct points. Otherwise the train is going to derail hehehehehe.
If it's a fail-safe system, why is a single red signal with the A plate less permissive than just a single red signal? If the A plate falls off or is obscured by snow, that "absolute" stop signal is now a (more permissive) stop and proceed?
Exactly what I thought, and what if the bottom light of an "medium to slow" fails? You get an medium to clear and end up derailing at the next switch, because you won't be able to brake in time.
A plate on single head is not fail safe. If a foamer or punks steal it, it falls off or is covered by branches or snow you read the single head red with A plate as stop & proceed not absolute stop. They should replace it with an S or SS plate saying stop & proceed. Have the single head without such sign mean absolute stop. If the S plate is not visible the crew will read it as more restricted absolute stop signal
May I ask a question about the Permissive Stop and Proceed signal? Given that the signal might be due to an oncoming train, that train should be slowing down preparing to stop at the next signal. The longer you wait, the slower that train should be moving. So my question is, after coming to a stop, how long do you wait before proceeding? A second or two, or maybe a minute or two? Do you call out on the radio to see if anyone is there? Just curious. Otherwise I loved the series - very informative!
The rules don't state it except in ABS territory. I never worked in ABS and I'm going back years since I read this (because CN doesn't use ABS and so they never trained us on that topic in rules class) but if I recall, if you come up to an unexpected stop and proceed signal, you stop, pass the signal and stop again and wait for two minutes. I guess the theory is that you take down the block and force opposing lights to go red so potential oncoming trains will encounter a red signal and have time to react.
I live at the far southern end of the CN line...for curiousity purposes, can you direct me to an employee timetable manual for this end? My commute parallels the track line and I can see the trackside signals at several points - would be interesting to know the local variables, especially since my section of track is heavily travelled and I have to cross it at a couple of points.
Why are Canadian and American signals so ridiculously complicated? The British system is far easier to understand, and there is far less potential for things to go wrong.
British signals are pure block signals, which only govern the track ocupation. These signals are used for ocupation, controlling speeds and announcing the speed of the next signal, all while being fail-safe.
It's not _that_ complicated. The Canadian signal system is the most complicated of its kind in North America, however. There is a consistent system to it, at least. All other signal systems in the U.S. are less complicated, but use the same principles. Other countries using random combinations of lights are not really any different, except for the number of aspects possible.
Horrendously over complex and Psychologically dangerous signalling system. Also obscenely expensive because of the outdated electro-mechanical technology. All the various signal aspects (and the instructions relating to each) in both Part 1 and Part 2 of this series, could be replaced by a much simpler, safer, and cheaper system, which has been in use in Great Britain since 1933 !!!!
The Duke 71000..... you must remember that we're talking about the CNR (Canadian National RR.) here..... Fed. Gov't. owned..... something akin to AMTRAK in the US... politicians bankrolling a railroad with lots of taxpayers dollars, totally out of touch with reality, and absolutely No clue what they're doing. ; ) Though I must say that the CNR "IS" better Managed (in general) than Amtrak is, by a long shot.
A UK/Irish signaling system would not be adequate in Canada or the United States. You must not be aware of just how large Canada or the U.S. actually are. And it certainly wouldn't be cheaper. You have no idea what you're talking about.
@@Romans--bo7br Actually CN became privatized in 1995. They are federally regulated but not government owned. Actually I think Bill Gates holds the most shares at CN.
so amazing! I had worked as a railway signaling designer and engineering in China for 10 years. In 2016, my family and I immigrated to Canada. Now I am looking for job as a signaling designer. I watched your videos to learn the signal system in Canada. It's the best way for me. Easy to understand . Thank you very much.
Phenomenal job, better than most instructors out there trying to teach this
Thank you
as a locomotive engineer that operates exclusively on OCS, these videos always help me freshen up on my signals for my re certification every three years....
The railways of Canada should pay you for these videos!!
Thank you Ian. My grandfather was an engineer on the CN, and I have a good friend who was a Conductor until retiring a few years back. It's always good to get solid, first-hand info. Being an engineer of the other kind, I can appreciate the high cost of signalling systems as well as maintaining radio comms (I did a bit of the latter). Many thanks, stay safe, and remember "Sex and Travel."
Excellent video, this is the first time I have ever seen this type of signalling explained.
It is a contrast to the UK system and based on a totally different concept.
In the UK we still have a fair amount of mechanical semaphore signals, so where there are colour light signals, they are equivalent to the semaphores.
There are two types of signal, home and distant. Each can show two aspects. Home shows red (danger) or green (line clear); distant shows amber (caution) or green. A distant can only show green if all of the home signals associated with it are also green; effectively it tells you what to expect the next signal's aspect to be - clear or danger. In areas with heavy traffic and colour light signals a fourth lamp is added this is yellow, meaning that a 'double yellow' aspect is possible (meaning, expect the next signal to be amber and the one after that to be red)
In the UK the signals don't give any indication of speed (although they do indicate the route set at junctions). Fixed trackside boards are used to indicate speed.
I hope that this wee bit of information is of interest in return for your well-made and informative video.
Thanks for sharing that information.
Keep in mind that he is specifically explaining the Canadian signaling system. Other signals in the United States operate with similar principles, but not the exact same in all cases. There are many signaling systems and apparatus in the U.S.
2:33 If it's fail-safe, why does the (A) plate _downgrade_ the "stop and proceed" to an absolute stop? Shouldn't the (A) stand for "automatic", therefore _Stop and Proceed?_ The only saving grace is that you're going at Restricted Speed.
Norfolk & Southern use these signals as well, in mt area. I picked up a couple of things that I didn't understand before, the non-vertical heads. Thanks.
5:20 I do believe on CROR that if there are two heads the bottom head stands for SLOW speed, not MEDIUM speed now
Hi. Very usefull to understanding 'n explain to my little sons... Thank you.
A stolen semaphore's head value was placed at $50,000 and some damned fool stole one but it was NOT along the Raton route. I believe it was along an old piece of CNW trackage. CNW tracks also have a handful of semaphores in use. Raton only sees some, mostly one AMTRAK train, maybe still some coal, ribbon rail from the old CF&I mill, military equipment trains, some seasonal trains, empty cars being moved for staging up in the mountains until harvest time and a smattering of misc. MOW stuff.
Thank you foamer.
I have always wondered how easy it is to actually differentiate the offset signals from stacked signal at a distance…?
In Australia an Absolute signal is referred to as an "Accept" signal.
I don't know where you learned that from but in NSW an absolute signal is a controlled signal regardless of being an accept or home or home starting signals. Permissive signals are automatic or track circuited controlled signals. Here in NSW the "blue lunar" signals are either Guards Indicators on platforms or they are Main Line Indicators into train order territory. The "blue lunar" lights can also be track side warning lights for ground personnel for the warning of approaching trains illuminated for clear track and extinguished for an approaching train.
The non-RTC controlled signals are not under the control of "automatic CTC"; there ain't no such animal. CTC is remote manual control of absolute signals and switches. Intermediate signals between RTC-controlled signals are automatic block signals whose aspects reflect the presence of a train in advance of a signal or a route lined against a signal.
Very interesting
I have been watching this series and I am learning a lot. Thanks. However, your drawings of switches is funny! I think you need to 'upgrade' the drawings and add the frog and correct points. Otherwise the train is going to derail hehehehehe.
So the way the R plate on a single head signal is fail safe doesn't really work with the A plate
If it's a fail-safe system, why is a single red signal with the A plate less permissive than just a single red signal? If the A plate falls off or is obscured by snow, that "absolute" stop signal is now a (more permissive) stop and proceed?
Exactly what I thought, and what if the bottom light of an "medium to slow" fails? You get an medium to clear and end up derailing at the next switch, because you won't be able to brake in time.
Yes, good observation. That is a wrong-side failure problem of the Canadian Signal System.
*@Sil ten Napel*
Situations like that are known in advance and circuity would detect failure of the lamp and adjust the aspect accordingly.
I think the point is that if the more permissive signal fails then it defaults to a less permissive one.
In my town the put a fixed red under the actual signal.
If the top light or middle light or bottom light is green how long is it until the next train passes
A plate on single head is not fail safe. If a foamer or punks steal it, it falls off or is covered by branches or snow you read the single head red with A plate as stop & proceed not absolute stop. They should replace it with an S or SS plate saying stop & proceed. Have the single head without such sign mean absolute stop. If the S plate is not visible the crew will read it as more restricted absolute stop signal
Can you make a video on hand signals
May I ask a question about the Permissive Stop and Proceed signal? Given that the signal might be due to an oncoming train, that train should be slowing down preparing to stop at the next signal. The longer you wait, the slower that train should be moving. So my question is, after coming to a stop, how long do you wait before proceeding? A second or two, or maybe a minute or two? Do you call out on the radio to see if anyone is there? Just curious. Otherwise I loved the series - very informative!
The rules don't state it except in ABS territory. I never worked in ABS and I'm going back years since I read this (because CN doesn't use ABS and so they never trained us on that topic in rules class) but if I recall, if you come up to an unexpected stop and proceed signal, you stop, pass the signal and stop again and wait for two minutes. I guess the theory is that you take down the block and force opposing lights to go red so potential oncoming trains will encounter a red signal and have time to react.
I live at the far southern end of the CN line...for curiousity purposes, can you direct me to an employee timetable manual for this end? My commute parallels the track line and I can see the trackside signals at several points - would be interesting to know the local variables, especially since my section of track is heavily travelled and I have to cross it at a couple of points.
More obscure ones if possible besides go ahead, stop, going in between etc
God I love the Polish signals :D not so complicated IMHO and much, much cheaper.
Kindly drop the music altogether. It serves no purpose.
Kindly STFU or leave a positive comment for a great video...
this got confusing quick Lol
Why are Canadian and American signals so ridiculously complicated? The British system is far easier to understand, and there is far less potential for things to go wrong.
British signals are pure block signals, which only govern the track ocupation. These signals are used for ocupation, controlling speeds and announcing the speed of the next signal, all while being fail-safe.
i find it complicated too
Most signals where i live only have 2 and 3 aspects and based on the Dutch system which is easy to understand to me
It's not _that_ complicated. The Canadian signal system is the most complicated of its kind in North America, however. There is a consistent system to it, at least. All other signal systems in the U.S. are less complicated, but use the same principles. Other countries using random combinations of lights are not really any different, except for the number of aspects possible.
Horrendously over complex and Psychologically dangerous signalling system. Also obscenely expensive because of the outdated electro-mechanical technology. All the various signal aspects (and the instructions relating to each) in both Part 1 and Part 2 of this series, could be replaced by a much simpler, safer, and cheaper system, which has been in use in Great Britain since 1933 !!!!
The Duke 71000..... you must remember that we're talking about the CNR (Canadian National RR.) here..... Fed. Gov't. owned..... something akin to AMTRAK in the US... politicians bankrolling a railroad with lots of taxpayers dollars, totally out of touch with reality, and absolutely No clue what they're doing. ; ) Though I must say that the CNR "IS" better Managed (in general) than Amtrak is, by a long shot.
A UK/Irish signaling system would not be adequate in Canada or the United States. You must not be aware of just how large Canada or the U.S. actually are.
And it certainly wouldn't be cheaper. You have no idea what you're talking about.
@@Romans--bo7br Actually CN became privatized in 1995. They are federally regulated but not government owned. Actually I think Bill Gates holds the most shares at CN.