Modern ECU Tuning: Stock Vs Standalone Vs CAN Bus
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
- Why can't you tune any ECU however you'd like or fit any aftermarket ECU to your vehicle without a care in the world?
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Ryan Nicholls Powertune Australia answers these common questions and more in relation to what can be done with the right skill set and tools, in this case, MoTeC's M1 Build and knowledge of C# (C Sharp) development language.
Some key takeaways from this chat include some insight into CAN Bus, LIN Bus and FlexRay, plus the fact that reflash tuning is not equal for all platforms, and some are much better developed than others. Ryan also mentions how you are often relying on an interpretation rather than an absolute when it comes to reflash tuning software vs the lack of OEM information, as well as sharing encouragement from Ryan for anyone interested in learning the skills he has to do so, even at a hobbyist level.
This interview was recorded at GTR Fest Australia, where we somehow managed to film more about EVOs and MoTeC ECUs than GTRs, and had a ball doing it too.
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TIME STAMPS:
0:00 - Modern Electronics
0:18 - Powertune Australia
0:27 - What Is MoTeC M1 Build
1:10 - Anything Is Possible
1:28 - M1 ECU Standardized Software
2:06 - Specialist ECU Applications
2:47 - Nissan R34 ATTESA Example
4:05 - Modern CAN Bus, LIN Bus And FlexRay Complexity
5:14 - What Is A CAN Bus?
5:45 - CAN Bus Benefits
6:03 - Using M1 Build To Emulate OEM ECU
6:59 - CAN Bus Reverse Engineering & Hardware
7:51 - Reflash Tuning Vs Standalone ECU General Capability
8:50 - Reflash Tuning Is An Interpretation
9:50 - Reflash Tuning Limitations
10:18 - CAN Bus & M1 Build Complexity
11:16 - Home Enthusiast Vs M1 Build
12:26 - Powertune Custom Projects
13:16 - Thanks Ryan! @powertuneaustralia
13:10 - BUILD.TUNE.DRIVE
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TAGS:
#highperformanceacademy #powertune #buildtunedrive #powertuneaustralia #motec #m1build #gtrfest #canbus #cancommunications #csharp #learndriveoptimise #motorsport #learntotune #enginebuilding101 #dontletthesmokeout #wiring101 #dieseltuning #datanerd #gofasterwithdata #racecraft #auto #carmods #automotive #motorsports #boost #m1army @MoTeCglobal - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Who has had a crack at M1 Build or something similar? What was/is your project? - Taz.
Thinking about it, when you consider the price of a Haltech Elite + the need for a £2000 expansion box in order to achieve torque control - I'd rather go the whole way and use the best product on the market.
not with M1 Build but few open source ecu's like rusefi/speeduino offer similar function as they are open source.. rusefi has Lua integration, so easy scripting language build in standard firmware. Only used it to add standard functions found in other ecu's.
Atm at last project I would utilize boost by turbo speed (both on and off gas - for antilag tables), sadly car is on emu black so I cant do that
The price scares me most of all 😢
Yes and everyone just looks at the monetary cost, not the time cost that goes into it all. But you have to pay to play and this isn't something every needs, not is it something others cannot learn noting Ryan here also started knowing 0 about any of this at one point in his life - Taz.
@@hpa101 well I mean... 'need' is a very relative term, isn't it :P
Like.. I need two turbos and a thousand rwhp...The officer that pulls me over after I satisfy that need will probably disagree 😂
@@Rollin8.0 you said the "price scares you most of all," but his point is that you probably don't even need their flagship stand-alone ECU to begin with. So why be concerned about the price of something you'll probably never even get?
@@Affinity111 if you can find me an entry level ecu that'll do full sequential injection and individual coils on a V10 and run two DBW throttle bodies, closed loop boost and AFR, flex fuel and traction control I'm ALL EARS buddy.
All I had was a canbus that supported 5 bar map, exhaust back pressure, crankcase pressure, coolant pressure, and turbo shaft speed, wmi, nitrous and syvecs haldex controller but that’s pretty much it! Really good info in this video!
12:40 it will be good to mention that is there are some licenses agreement that need to be signed with motec. I once asked them the process to get a M1 build license and they said yiu need to have a partner agreement, it os a business, and this is not an option for "I want to have ful control of my build car", there needs to be a possible ingress of customers based on the platform/car you are building the firmware for. They ask howany people are likely to get a motec with that license that your are building (yiu might need to have a group by setup 😬).
You guys need to cover the motiv reflex box that communicates with factory ecu to add additional injectors, boost control and many outputs like seeing boost level data/map sensor on the factory can line to trigger a secondary fuel pump
I believe we talked to Powertune about their CAN gateway as well which will be a future release - Taz.
THIS!!!!
Is there a similar product that'll work with Mercedes stuff? Specifically from around the 2005-ish era?
Can’t wait for PowerTune to release the RZ34 PnP Motec kit 😊 This growing platform is needing more support 💪🏽
Check Emtron … they support it now
I am running an Emtron KV12 for the Nissan 370z. I got tired of hurting the engine trying to tune on the factory ecu with the lack of sensors. So far, I am enjoying it and learning. I am twin turbo and I have it tuned to 900whp. Holding it at that level for now.
Sorry to hear of your struggles but glad you have found an alternative and a power level that is reliable now. Hopefully you are enjoying a solid amount of time behind the wheel instead of on the spanners, although I'm sure you've just traded the cost of engine parts with fluids, tyres, tow rig running and all that other good stuff associated with racing 😅 - Taz.
@@hpa101 Taz, sometime you just got to ride out the struggle bus and keep at it. LOL
It's not always what we want, but a bit of struggle along the way to a good result does make it all the more satisfying! Good man - Taz.
Love to have a setup like that but with the basic non-turbo, non-assists type of car I race there's no real benefit. The money would be better spent elsewhere but one day I'll probably manage to justify it to myself somehow. In the meantime I'll stick with my Omex 600.
Very nice video 😎
I'm going for a Ecumaster Pro for my project. I'm no expert in ecu tuning or anything else but I think it's best for me. I've heard good news that they have recently reverse engineered the canbus for 08 subaru canbus.
I'm hoping to get the most out of the car and ecu with extra can bus modules on the second channel.
I'm scared AF and it will be fun trying to get some to tune it properly 😋
I'm sooo happy I've found this channel, gold mine of knowledge. I'll but some courses closer to finish the project
Thanks a lot for your materials and videos
All true what these guys say , a modern turbo engine and car really benefit from tech like this especially with drive by wire , abs and traction control.
We’re using the M142 on a BMW S58 , not cheap but you can’t get away with a cheap or low spec ECU .
At the end of the day guys even a club racer can easily and consistently blow 5-10k on tyres and mods that take time and money to get an extra half a second a lap every season.
Your modern ECU will do that with a single purchase so even running on a budget I’d sooner spend it on a decent ECU once , not continuously have to buy new tyres every weekend etc etc just to find half a second a lap .
Just be aware that not only do you need to spec the ecu but you also have to find the correct guy that’s familiar with that platform , and the engine .
Why can’t life be like years ago, a decent BDG on throttle bodies . So so simple 😂
is this $2,495.00 for just the firmware?????!?!?!?
I paid just about that for a few fillings which took my dentist under an hour. Bet you a few more hours went into this firmware than that 😂
Like dentistry, if you want to learn how to do this yourself you most certainly can, and it is more accessible.
Or you trade in the time cost to do that for cash instead remembering this isn't a loaf of bread that you might die without. You have to pay to play 🤘 - Taz.
I'm going to keep it stock and have a nice holiday instead😅.
Nothing wrong with that! Happy holidays - Taz.
7:15 i wouldnt say 2008 is new for canbus.. it would be more then 11 years in cars
He didn't say it was brand new in 2008 either to be fair remembering we're also talking about the aftermarkets perspective here as well which took a while to start playing with it 😉 - Taz.
"Allow us to jack all your money for gatekeeping on everything it can do".
How is learning a skill and making a living from it gatekeeping? What do you do for a living? - Taz.
@@hpa101 I am not referring to you guys. I am referring to Motec. I am a proud and happy gold member of HPA. I am a licensed automotive tech currently building extensive knowledge through HPA to expand the business into performance side of things if god willing.
@@hpa101 I'd sooner say this about Motec than Powertune. No problem paying for a custom written package if I needed it. Motec on the other hand. 15 years ago I bought an M800 for a motorcycle application. Also bought a PDM15 and ADL3. ADL3 alone was around 7100-7200 then another 700 or so for a blue back light. Must have been mad. All of them were probably made with backlights but it was just an extra 700 to have it enabled. Motec prides itself on being high end so why wouldn't a back light be considered standard equipment. Why would someone buying an M150 not want logging, is logging memory that expensive, what about lambda. Why would someone buying a C127 not want to be able to design the display. It would be different if it was a cheapo ECU and to save money for customers offered it without some items that say a person installing in a relatively stock daily driver didnt require. Don't see too many M150's in daily drivers though. I'm not sure what their reasoning for this is but you can't compare Motec with Emtron, Haltech, ECUmaster etc and say its only a bit more expensive because that price doesnt really get you a very functional ECU . GPR M150 is 4300AUD, plus logging comparable to ECUmaster or Emtron is an extra $800 + lambda whatever that costs + advanced functions in order to get launch control, traction, anti lag and flatshift oh thats more again + $800 for data analysis software and if you bought the dash another 550 for the ability to design the display. Even saying all this I would still buy it if I could find something it was head and shoulders better at doing than say Emtron. Everything I listed above is available with Emtron in the initial purchase price which is about the same as the bare M150.
Considered rocket science if you’re using an M1 to control a rocket? 🚀
Touche 😂 - Taz.
those silly M1 black boxes always up to something tricky haha@@hpa101
A C#/C scripting like language sounds a bit buffer overrun, hard reset, hit a concrete wall to me when it all goes wrong. Then who do u point the finger at, or is it sold as seen software. Race use only!
You can find a potential problem in everything and anything. Big difference between potential and actual though - Taz.
@@hpa101 Try losing your canbus electronic power steering during a high speed corner, because someones guess work went out of scope. Thats actual and has actually happened to me, because i did the guess work and the programming. My fault, no problem, but you might wanna know who's fault it is when your the customer
Hmmmm yes magic is in the black box
I'll just drag my knuckles back to my points and cabs
haha yes it can feel a bit like that sometimes! Like anything though, the more you learn and understand the 'easier' it becomes, and we all start at 0 - Taz.
@@hpa101 you are correct about the we all start at 0 part
It just comes down to how keen you are to learn
We're now in a gold age of reverse engineering, in 5 years or so, it will be nearly impossible 😢
no thanks to those that feed into that
Or will it become easier as we can offload more and more tasks to 'AI' based tools I wonder? That is already happening when it comes to the downturn in use of communities like Stack Overflow from what I understand.... - Taz.
@hpa101 unless AI will be able to crack high level encryption it's going to be very hard unfortunately or fortunately considering the newer cars might reach complexity levels better not tempered with by aftermarket 😀, check the: UNECE WP.29 (CSMS)...
P.s. maybe AI coupled with quantum processing power haha